Hello, im bonnie erbe. Welcome to to the contrary, a discussion of news and social trends from diverse perspectives. Up first, religion and women. Former president jimmy carter has called out religious leaders for perpetuating sexism. In his new book, carter says wrong interpretations of holy books particularly the bible are a major contributing factor to inequality between the sexes. The former president is still a his ran though he left the Southern BaptistConvention Due to the treatment much women. Practice of religion that is a basic cause on the foundation or the excuse for other abuses, where women are deprived of an equal right to serve god and where they are treated as subordinate or inferior people. He stressed that jesus himself never disrespected women but later Church Leaders up to the present day have treated women as second class citizens. Carter called for women to have an equal role in church, saying, all are equal in the eyes of god. So Debra Carnahan is religion sexist . It is. A christian tradition here in the west seems to be oddly ignoring else r elsewhere. So much for subjugating women provide by these religious sects. A lot of people use that as crutch to say religion is always sectionist. I want to say in his book, he says all religions, he goes in to judaism and islam and hindu and you name it. Some of course are worse than others. Some part of for example, Orthodox Jews i come from a jewish background are of more sexist in my mind than reform jews are. But why my question is, of course in a situation where you dont have women priests. Some churches dont even have women local leaders where women cant do this or theyre not seen as that just because of gender. For somebody to come out and say it. Somebody creditable to come out and say it. Because i think that women are afraid to speak out against their relodge on and against their church. I think that is part of it. So is it womens fault that they allow this to continue because women are the backbone of every church. Why arent they out there saying, im religious, i belief in god, i dont believe they are. I think women increasingly are doing just that even nuns are coming out speaking out about birth control. I agree, its an interpretation issue. What is really important that part i doing is full religion topic can be controversial people are scared to say anything. You get attacked, its real. From who . From the extremists. Any time i say anything about my religion, shes a antichrist or something. I think its interesting and important what carter is doing is keep bringing attention to the fact that if we continue to systematically discriminate against 50 of the population which is women, nations cannot progress. Societies will not develop that is the core. Its important not to white wash, lump them all together. Hes still religious and belongs to some church im not sure which. Hes going to devote the rest of his life he says to this theres absolutely room for conversation here but i also think its important to point out in the west these are not statebased religions. They are free to have a conversation. They are having a conversation about this things are changing its important not to sort of lump them together and suggest that in some way women sitting separately from men in jewish orthodox synagogue is the same thing as real atrocities against women. Its very important that people dont want to leave their church, to your point when you say youre free to leave. I grew up in a Missouri Lutheran School and environment just five minutes from here. My mother went to the same school. I questioned these things when i was younger. I wanted to light the candles, i wanted to not just sit with the first graders during church. But i was told thats what the boys do. And its very hard to fight that. The women teachers were not the paid the same as men, still not. But there are lesbians for example, who are catholic formed their own Catholic Church why cant you accommodate me within the institution, i dont think i think its interpretation but women are the backbone. Women raise all the money. The nuns educate the kids take care of everybody. They do it in this environment that i sit there i say to myself, what is wrong with this picture. Form your own church if you feel like or just look at thats the biggest thing as a woman ive grown very frustrated seeing major religions be hijacked by their most fanatical members. Thats one of the biggest problems today. Wrongfully has been one of those, especially in our modern Society People have picture of what islam is which has been hijacked. We grow very frustrated with that. We think of how we can make change. Unfortunately the change is very slow. I want to point out theres a group called karama if you havent heard of it that says that sexist interpretation of of the koran is wrong and they have scholars who show how that unfortunately what theyre doing is very important. I think in years to come especially in the next ten to 15 years were going to see more people forming groups like that. Bringing awareness to topics such as that, lets look at old skip tours not let the most fanatical members dictate the fate. You are saying women are strong and thats why they fit . Maybe a little bit of both is happening a lot of women are leaving and trying to reform, work with what they already have to. Theres a Huge Movement within islam of feminists. Thats happening across the board with i also think carter is talking about some of the most extreme cases. I feel like if you do christianity, islam, days when all the abraham traditions, the extremists are crazy, if you say mig they troll you online. I want to go back to women, whats wrong with some of these women. I have heard them say, i dont care. Ive got enough on my plate. I heard that as well. Ive fallen in to that many a times. Im thinking i have so much other stuff going on, religion is very personal, my practice. I just dont really discuss it with anybody to be honest. I find it to be so private. I almost have taken on that i dont care attitude. Youre go tell me my god think, that im worth less than you, have a nice day. Im too busy. Clearly they have evolved. The synagogue why i attend its a female rabbi, very common, they have been accepting of gay marriage, lot of changes. Its conservative and i think there is many ways theres been a shift in social mother rays and people are there may be some things that remain and foster but also a lot of change thats happening its not quite so black and white. Women are the backbone, also the mothers. I think after awhile, i dont want my kid hearing this stuff, you know . Here is the other thing that i saw in the church i was in, still going on, women cannot vote and they still are paying the women teachers less than the men. Because they say the men are the center of the family and they need to have more money. Thats just wrong. With him being as vocal i thieves very frustrated with things like that happening especially where i grew up not seeing any women at the alter at the front of the theres a message that youre being its not a good message to be sending to our daughters. I say, overthrow it. Let us know what you think. Please follow me on twitter bonnieerbe and tothecontrary. From religion to marriage. Is marriage losing its appeal as a life goal for young adults . A study by the Pew Research Center shows marriage has taken a nosedive. A mere 26 of millenials, now 1833, are married. Since 1960 the marriage rate among adults has dropped 21 and among 18 to 29 year olds, it dropped by twothirds. But the data also reveals that the desire to marry has not changed and is strongest amongst young americans. There are educational differences as well. College graduates are more likely to be married than those with only a high school diploma. That gap has from to 16 compared today from 4 in 1960 more than 50 years ago. Another new study challenges the idea that the divorce rate has flattened. The university of minnesota report shows divorce rates are on the rise among babyboomers, while divorce among young couples is rare. So, are we sad to see got mixed up from the last discussion. Marriage dropping as the goal among young people . Yes, i think this is a problem. I usually have the rosy outlook of how women and girls are doing but i think that the decline in marriages is a serious problem because were seeing rise in unmarried mothers who are unfortunately far less educated and less able to care for a family and becoming the sole bread winners. Only 4 of unmarried women had actually been married. Today that number is 44 , seeing real cultural change here. It seems to me all about money and education. Which kind of stinks. But you also have to think were comparing millennials to baby boomers. I think you just cant compare. Gloria stein am said, we are the men that we wanted to marry. I think that today more than ever that statement is so true. We dont need men for anything. We dont need them for kids, dont need them to work. Dont need for our jobs. Im saying for ions only aspiration women had, only career choice we had was to marry and marry wall. But now were marrying later. T. Its interesting youre coming at it from an educate per speck packtive, what is really happening here that High School Dropouts and low income unmarried women are getting married with babies. Whoever comes along. Not getting married. The question of and hurting themselves. The worst thing a woman can do to herself facially and education wise is to have a child out of wedlock. You also see the boomers are getting divorced. My point is, i feel like even the 61 according to the two Research Still had desire to get married theyre just doing it later. I feel like overarching statement is, finding it, its not a priority. The priority is solving your dote and advancing your career. Ill agree with you on apples toe orangess comparison, millennials and baby boomers. They hope to change that. They are saying i dont want to give up mike lie parents did. I dont want to turn 60 also take on the new chapter and a new lover or new spouse. Did the parents give up or i got marched when i was 20 now im 60. We have more options. Not like conservative perspective. This is an economic one, too. Theres a great who said, economics you can look at cost and benefit. Too often with marriage we talk about the cost there. Is actually very serious important benefit both at the individual level and marriage provides a second income many timesa safety net, provides support. Societal level just because we dont have marriage doesnt mean that all of those things dont need to be fulfilled. What steps in when a spouse dos not. Were looking at this from a womans perspective. Are they the ones choosing to get the force . Are the men the ones choosing to gets the divorce. Who is instigating this . We have lot of unhappy abusive marriages in the past that women could not get it of. Maybe this isnt as scary and shocking as it seems but i do agree with bonnie that there is a problem with young women having children out of wedlock. Theres no stigma any more and the grandparents goat so excited. I think all that wonderful but i really wish 16 and pregnant. Unfortunately i think there is still a stigma, especially talk about the classes, middle class family and daughter comes home at 16 and pregnant there is a huge feeling that the daughter has failed by not finishing high school and getting pregnant before finishing high school. But i want to go to upward mobility for a moment. As woman who now at the age 306 getting married later this year, ill tell you i have not thought that i needed a second income. I thought i got it on my own f. Im not happy with the man theres no need to settle down. Women are sort of this you have two women have more choices but thats just results in positive social change. Not negative social change. What is going on here, share thoughts, please, the gap between rich and poor is growing so quickly, the gap in education is growing so quickly its really hurting women. I think what is being eluded to not talking about women at this table but women who dont have a family to come home to, who arent going to shame them for. This in fact instead of pushing marriage as not only sort of response but something that we should be familiar sizing, we push Government Programs instead. That actually further encourages these women to be in sort of cycle of debt and poverty. And reliance. Rather than saying, you can build something and its easier when theres two of you. I think we ought to push one Government Program that is happening out condoms and birth control. Thats really good one. To unwed mother situation. I a degree. A lot of this, were not talking about is result of years, almost a decade of abstinence only education. The poorer women and girls are the ones who dont have actress to contraception or knowledge about them. Parenthood is all over the place im not sure i completely a bigger problem, honestly earlier not only for the well it has to be completely defunded. Im happy it exists. As somebody on the other side im happy planned parent exists. There are women who cannot afford to go to pharmacy and buy those contraceptive devices. And mid in that comes with it. Its good for that. I think that is fine if you believe in that, go get it. Last word. To your point earlier we cannot ignore the impact of someone like gloria steinam. There was this idea that you couldnt truly be equal, couldnt be free unless you were without a man. But knows sentiments may have been radical but long term consequences. Youre not free unless you could control your own body. Youre not truly empowered unless you have control over your reproduction. All right. Behind the headlines how television treats female writers and producers. Women are better represented behind the scenes in tv than in the movies. One example cindy chupack, a golden globe and Emmy Award Winning producer and screenwriter, she spoke with to the contrary about her newestbookturnedtvshow. Humor is definitely my coping mechanism and its a way i think to help others. You may not know her name, but you have probably laughed at some of cindy chupacks jokes. She was a writer and producer for successful shows including sex and the city, Everybody Loves raymond, and modern family. And its that same sense of humor that carries her through tough times. Comedy is just the best way to get over some of these tougher subjects. I think women for a longer time have been mining our own lives for comedy. And have been willing to laugh at ourselves, in a way that sometimes that is not necessarily where mens comedy comes from. In her new book about marriage, the longest date, chupack puts her own life on display. She tells stories of her imperfect romance. People say wow, your marriage is like a long date . And i say, well its not clear if its a good or bad date, but its a long one. My husband even said, you know, if you put out a book about what a great couple we are and something happens, we break up, you are going to feel silly. And i said, its not a book about what a great couple we are. I think he comes off very well, but we are not the kind of couple; thats the point, im trying to say. Theres no such thing. She also chronicles her struggles with infertility. I talk about everything from ivf, to choosing an egg donor to trying adoption, including some miscarriages, termination. I hope particularly women dealing with infertility, who are going through it or who have been through it feel comforted and less alone. The book is being made into a tv show. Chupack is working on the pilot with jake kasdan, the executive producer of new girl and a veteran sitcom director. He loved the book. Hes happily married and has kids and said there hasnt been a show about marriage like this, just kind of an honest, romantic, funny show about a couple in a while. While representation is far from equal, women are more likely to be working behind the scenes in television than in film. According to a recent report, women fill more than a quarter of behindthe scenes roles in tv, compared with fewer than one fifth of those roles in film. Theres things that women are reluctant to say yes to, because i joke, we my friends and i often feel we have to take a Sundance Institute before we can direct a film. Whereas men, i know shoot one episode of tv and theyre like well now i can direct a film. It takes a very special kind of woman to wanna grasp those woman to wanna grasp those reins, but i am starting to believe more and just say yes. Learn it. Do it. You can do it. How bad can it be . Are the women i now millennials are they as afraid to take charge as their predecessors. Because i only know millennials, you know, i love what shes doing so great from her to now she writes about relationships that are real in streeted of regurgitating the fairy tale fluff that weve been fed. Women arent a frayed. I dont think boomers are a frayed. We calculate risk differently. I love that she talks about men are like, im ready to direct a feature film women want to be a little bit more prepared. Its true. Any idea why this may not be a fair question but any why women do better in tv than film . Perhaps thats great part of it. I think film is very difficult. Angelina jolie and other actors. I think breaking out in both fields is tougher. One of my favorite examples is mindy, one of my favorite accesses she broke out from behind she was writer on the office. And woman of color. Just now come in to her own. Shes been around. I think that is for millennials and everybody like that, thats a sign of the times to come. Who would be her equivalent, shes done greys anatomy they are kind of no question that hollywood can but ask it because you have to raise 50 million bucks to do a movie but have to, as i did, only raise in the five figures to start this tv show. But i feel like that is implies that women cant handle or manage large budgets which is such a no, no. Im not saying that. I know youre note saying that. Because women still have less access to venture capital. Making a movie is clearly much more expensive than starting more opportunity in television. There is simply more outlets, more opportunities, theres webbased shows, a little bit easier to break in there. When i think about hollywood i think a lot about women. I dont usually watch the oscars but maybe it was women from music to sex to actors and everyone was a woman. I feel very positive about this. My niece is an rack doctors much. Shes been in tons of films is very successful and my sister has her own Production Company theyre i have the hollywood life. And theres a ton of sexism in hollywood. And i think bonnie is correct in that you need to follow the money. Because normally when you find inequality you want to find out what is at the heart of something, follow the money. It takes a lot of money to get a film. It takes a lot. What about using humor to get through times like problems with i can see using humor in all kinds of situations, that one she reminded me of Caitlin Flanagan the atlantic columnist and writes similarly, uses humor for touching moments, leaving your children when go back to work. Managing twins. Very similar. These are in many ways sort of you have to laugh at them when youre up at 3 00 in the morning changing twins aces diapers what can you d. I love that. I love that huge or i relate with her a lot. I feel like its a surviving mechanism. A coping mechanism. Also what is the alternative, are you going to freak out have nervous break down instead of laugh. Or get very depressed crawl back in bed. Survival mechanism. She writes about her life. I write about my life. Youve got to have humor, its how you connect. Shes obviously married to a very secure man, too. Seriously. My wife just looked at me said, this book is not about our relationship. A long date . Not only that she said that her husband moved in to her house for awhile she felt like he was the house guest that wouldnt leave. But also important this is her second marriage. Her first husband was actually gay shes colt with humor. You got to deal with that. Thats it for this edition. Please follow me on twitter and visit our website pbs. Org tothecontrary. Whether you agree or think, to the contrary, see you next week. Funding for to the contrary provided by the Cornell Douglas foundation committed to encouraging stewardship of the environment, land conservation, watershed protection and eliminating harmful chemicals. Additional funding provided by the colcom foundation. The Wallace Genetic Foundation the e. Rhodes and leona b. Carpenter foundation. And by the charles a. Frueauff foundation. For a transcript or to see an online version of this episode of to the contrary please visit our pbs website at www. Pbs. Org tothecontrary. From washington, the mclaughlin group. The american original. For over three decades, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. Issue one, hillary. I think hillary will go down as one of the finest secretary of states we have had. It has been a great collaboration over the last four years. Im going to miss her. I wish she was sticking around. But, she has logged in so many miles i cant begrudge her wanting to take it easy for a little bit. But i want the country to appreciate just what an extraordinary role she has played during the course of my administration and a lot of the successes we have