Following . Additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of news and Information Services, word wide. From our studios in new york captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose rosewater is the new movie by jon stewart, his direct orial debut, based on the real real Life Experience of mazier bahari, he came to cover the president ial election a caused of being an american spy, was sent to prison, tortured by iranian authorities until his release. Vart magazine calls the moveyear a stirring account of human endurance and a topical reminder of the risks faced by journalists in pursuit of the truth. Here is the trailer for ross watter. Its crazy how like you are done go away. Just one week. Welcome to iran. Are you hear for business or pleasure. Im a journalist. Im covering the elections for newsweek magazine. Ahmadinejad is devoted to the Supreme Leader. Ahmadinejad is what must be. Dow want to report the other side . We are the educators. We are students. We are the educators. Welcome to this university. Why did you put away your came what camera when you saw the satellite. There are certain situations, it wont do your friends or the movement any good. Tensions are rising in iran. The election has ended in controversy. What are you doing . Fighting back. Youre going to get killed. You have a real weapon and you chas not to use it. Stand up. We are here now. Sir, you can tell me why im here. Thats what happens to foreign spies caught on iranian soil. Who are you working for . The cia . Newsweek. There is nothing to tell. Who is anton chekhov. The playwright. You tell me it is you who have an interest of him on facebook. You must not just take his blood. You must take his home. Your wife will never see you again. Your child, your child will never know you. In their heart, they know. They cannot win. It is an unbelievable povie, isnt it. Unbelievable povie. The movie only 30 secretaries locker than the trailer. Only about 20 or 30 secretaries longer. In case you dont know, that jon stewart talking, the director of the film, gael Garcia Bernal is the star and marzia bahari, of whom this film is based. Im glad to have you here. Congratulations. Thank you very much. So you see your life on screen. Because people of that stature but people who are dead. Still its quite weird. Tell me when you what made this the movie you want to be involved. I realize hes been on your show, hes been on my show. So you knew him. We knew after mazia had been arrested in 2009 after he was released, he came on the show and we became friendly, starting to have breakfast. And he was writing his memoir at that time. And we talked about trying to make this into a film, which is incredibly compelling. Because its also, you know, mazier was in prison. His father had been imprisoned under the shaw, his sister under so you have these generations lost to these regimes that are suppressing the people, not just against the west, allied with the west,. It is an incredible generational story as well. So we were traying to get it made into a film, made a list of writers that we loved. Rose wait a minute, you were trying to get it made was there a moment when you you said i want to see a film am i want to see a film made about it. When you read it, when you got involved in the story. When we used to meet for breakfast and we thought it was just i thought it was a really relevant topic to today, the way that information has been democratized, the changing definition of who is a journalist who is not a journalist, the way that these 20th century regimes have to find a way to suppress a new medium of information. I just thought it was a very compelling, along with the really amazing sort of observations that he made while in prison. The humor that he was able to maintain. The family story. It i just thought it was beautifully done. Had you been looking for a film to make, produce, direct . Oh, no. That part, no. I mean if the Police Academy came my way, i wouldnt turn them down, you know. Get back in the game. But no, not at all. This was and i was going to produce. I think what our first conversation, what family and humor, because i mean john is a satirist and comedian. Something along those lines. So he was interested in the humor in the book. But also he was interested in the family aspect of it. Because even in the film, the main characters are two male characters, gael and who are the protagonists of the film. But the heart and soul of the film really belongs to three amazing women, my mother, my sister and my wife, who are portrayed by three amazing actresses. So during those first breakfasts, maybe six or seven first breakfasts, we kept on talking about humor in the book, and humor in the story, and also the family, the women in my life. Rose so how did you what, how do you find human never this . I didnt, he did. That was his fault. Well, i think it was in some respects, its a test case for what you always imagine. But its hypothetical. This idea that even under the most durres, even under the most oppressive conditions, humor can be a shield. Its what separates you from those that believe they have a monopoly on the truth. These authoritarian type regimes. And to see maziar be able to retain that, and have to somehow find a way to keep himself alive alive, and finding the human never what was a absurd situation, being accused of a spy, he is not a spy. And they showed him a clip from the daily show where jason jones, in a kafia and sunglasses says to him, as an american spy, im a spy, tell me y your country so terrifying. They played that for him. And it shouldnt be that strange to you because you interviewed ahmadinejad seven or eight times. Im sure you he may not admit it but im sure sometimes after the interview you would just say to yourself, this is just ridiculous. Did you. Yes. Exactly. So imagine being interrogated by ahmadinejad, and being repeated everything that he says in those half an hour interviews, for 118 days. So eventually my sper gator really became my muse. So when i was being interrogated, in the interrogation room, and after i went to my cell, i was just thinking about our conversations. And i was rehearsing it in my head. And all i did after coming out of prison was transcribing those conversations that we had. Welcome, good to see you. When did jon call you and say ive got a great part for you. Not long, i mean not a long time before shooting it. We had to find deep in the jungles of the amazon. He was in a loin cloth running through the jungles of the amazon, i was doing a thing, psychedelic ramble. And so the cage was very exciting. But you come from a place where they have dictators well. He would see an when you read the book did you say wow, this is. It feels so far away but its true that this is so, so similar in many ways. And i felt much in touch with maziars story even though i have never been in solitary confinement. There was something that was very interesting, strong connection. And also through jons interpretations as well, it made it, it amplified the situation. It was not just about maziars story and prison, its all about these many issues, torture, humor, for example, humor is naturally reflective, for example. But on a distance, you can tell that every single situation in the history of mankind, of power, doing something to try to control in a critical moment, trying to control something. Some people have movement. Theyve always used ridiculous excuses. And on a distance, the inquisition was something terrible. But the inquisition used quite ridiculous statements to sustain their actions. Ignorance is universal and he internal eternal at the same time. And its great that i think first thing first time i met gael i was just shocked by how much he knows about the situation. So hes not only a great actor, but hes very knowledgeable about the politics of the middle east, politics of iran. He makes documentaries. He has a documentary festival. So hes not one of those actors who dont know where iran is on the map. He knew iranian history. So it was just the detai detail details we had to talk about. Rose tell me about going into the making of the film, here are you with the daily show, you take 12 we cans off. Correct. You are going to go to amman jordan, you are making a movie. Thats right. Rose you have written a script, you got the cast you want. What is surprising . What was terrifying about all this . Its not so much the most terrifying thing about the project is not to let maziar down. You know, when are you telling somebodys story you feel a great responsibility to tell it with integrity to reflect, his memoir is a reflection of his time in prison. This film is natural leigh going to be an impression of that reflection so its already twice removed. Im not eye anian so im to the going to have the same nuanced ear that a great iranian director is going to have. So within that, its sort of owning your own inauthenticity while trying to best express the more universal elements of the story. And not screw it up to be perfectly frank, is to just do justice to what he went through. And to be able to articulate that story with the proper intention. And in a way that dramatizes it the way that we thought was appropriate. Did you seek advice from other directors . Did you say at least i want to touch these bases before i make my first film. No question. And as someone like yourself, you know, you interview people so you can have directors on the show so we would have a director on the show to talk about a project. And i would find my way back to the green room and say yeah, ron howard, so good to have you on the show. Ive got this script. And i would very kind, very generous. Some of that was to get a sense of their feeling of the viability of it, for them to it wasnt so much your act one, you need conflict. It was more this is a viable story. I think this is something you could accomplish in the time frame and with the money. We are very little money and very little time. So was this a realistic endeavor, is one of the things i was looking for. Rose and they said yes . Yes. There were two yeses, one, not sure. And one im awfully busy, please get out of my room, you know. But in general, the feedback was quite positive. So that felt good. Rose tell me about the relationship between hes playing you, and the interrogater who say very different kind of man, yet at the same time, your lives are totally entwined now. Well, my main challenge in prison was to humanize my interrogater. Look at him as a human being. Because i knew if i regarded him as a monster, i would be defeated from the beginningment and i knew i was fighting two different battles. One was a physical battle that was lost, of course, because i was the prisoner. He was part of the revolutionary guard. He was much bigger than me. But the other part, the other battle was a psychological battle that i knew i could win. Because i had lived a richer life. I had a richer cultural experience. I loved my family much more than he did. I was sure i had friends. And i knew if he had the same experiences i had, he wouldnt choose being a torturer. Because thats a horrible job, when you think about it. You have to go to a dark room every day. Punch a card, beat people, insult people, humiliate people, lie. And think that youre going to paradise eventually. And then go back home or may not go home, you know, get overtime. So i had to fight this psychological battle with him through getting into my inner resources. My cultural experience. And just humanize him. And see the complexities in him. See the vulnerabilities in him. And try to manipulate that. First of all, for very practical reasons, he came from beating me and insulting me. And also to satisfy him as an employee of the system. Because like any other employee, like bookkeepers, accountants, he had a boss. And he had to give some information to his boss. So i had to give him some information that would not hurt me, eventually. But at the same time, satisfy him. So the scenes with th the massages that you see in the film, that is part of that plan that i had in my head, con conducted in my head. You said that gael brought oxygen to the role. What did you mean . Its a you know t was a very delicate balance for the actor who was going to play maziar, as maziar said earlier, hes still alive. Alive. And he was there with us on set. Rose he can tell if he got it. Exactly. So theres the pressure of, you are hering maziar and you could hear from offset no, no. What are you doing. laughter rose it wasnt that way. It was more about the agility, you know. I think sometimes for an actor when you have to play a scene of dur es, its very easy to play it in all of its fullness. And one of the things that i think was always so interesting about maziar, was his ability to maintain a sense of that mischief, to compartmentalize the ordeal and remain like even without an audience, a hint of, this is absurd and keep that. Gael caught that from the beginning, from the moment. Rose the absurdity of it all. To be able to play that as subtext, under dur es, is what was so special. And when he came in, you foe, there is a scene in the film where maziar gets to call his wife for the first time in four months. And its maybe two minutes, and theres no cuts. And its one camera, locked in tight. You know, gael had to go from fear about being about to be beaten into incede allity that he is about to get to call his wife who he has wanted to talk to the whole time, into the joy of hearing that he is about to have a baby girl. To being physically assaulted, to laughing in the face of his interrogater, and flipping the script, to gratitude. Thats two minutes. And he had to accomplish that without the ostentatious trappings of acting. You know, its one of those scenes that you could very easily chew on in a way, but he brought a subtley and nuance to t and an agility to it that was really, really special. Rose now, are you instructing him . Are you telling him what you want . I was not on set. I dont like to watch movies being made. I like to watch them. Rose this is a new definition of director. It was a really collaborative process, all the way through, from start to finish. Rose thats what makes it interesting. You have somebody without wants to learn and listen and go forward as you do, as an actor. Yeah, it was such a joy. I mean, we had many situations that kind of made it complicated like shooting in ramadan in very strong heat. I mean now that i remember t it was really boiling inside. 110 degrees. It was very, very, very difficult. Some things that we had to do. Also working with we all met each other there. So we had to come up with something. And the joy and expectation and complete panic and terror of what is going to take shape. Where is this going to lead us. And so little by little we started, i mean, i remember on the second week, i felt we had already been like two months there. You know, it felt like such an intensity. It was really joyful. Rose you were filling inside a prison in amman jordan. Our first four days of filming were in a prison in amman. So you can imagine it is not like look, when are you on a observation in new york, hey, what are you shooting. But its not like the prisoners are coming up, is this a commercial . Whos the actor. Like, its very tense. And you are trying not to humiliate. Because theyre undergoing this and you want to be respectful of the conditions that theyre under. And the conditions that the guards are under. And the conditions of the beginning of the holiday of ramadan. So it was delicate. We were in the ward or the wing. Rose solitary. Where the solitary confinement occurs. And to witness that, and to i mean for me, i mean, i was new, they had been preparing and for me, that i was new into the notion of solitary confinement in a way, realizing that this is something that happens everywhere in the world. And it is common practice. It was quite i mean, i cannot i dont know, harrowing in a way. I mean, maziar says t is the most effective way of torture, you know, to put people in solitary confinement. We do it here. We keep people in solitary confinement. As a matter of course. As a matter of behavioral correction. And its something that breaks people down psychologically in terrible ways and really quickly. Rose speaking of that. You took an approach to torture you did not want to engage in your word, torture correct rdz you really wanted it to be a bit like jaws, the fear of. Yes, the suspense, the imminent nature. The fact that it was always in the air. Because i felt, and maziar and i talked a lot about this. An audience can become numb when viewing something brutal. So that it loses its impact. In the same way that a prisoner can become numb through repeated physical torture. They develop an immunity to it, to some extent. And it no longer carries impact. So when the violence occurs, it is it is it cracks like lightning. It appears out of nowhere. And it disappears as quickly. But theres always, it always hangs in the air. And i felt that it was a way to invest the audience in it, in maybe a more complete way, and a more visceral way than sort of giving a more lurid presentation of it, so that it becomes something that you are numb to watch, you see very violent things on television all the time. And we dont seem to register them. So i wanted to find a way to accentuate the difficulty of it without necessarily letting people off the hook. In the same way that once maziar goes to prison, we dont leave the prison, to give the audience. Rose you have to stay there. Pushing a bit of the line of discomfort comfort. So when that discomfort is released, they feel that viscerally as well. Rose was the fear of the personment worse than the pushment. The solitary confinement was the worst. Because they deprive you of all your senses. Everything you see is just the walls. You cannot touch anything except for the walls. You cannot hear anything. So because of that, you become delusional. You feel lonely. You become suicidal. And sometimes, actually, during my time in solitary confinement, i really wanted to be interrogated. I really wanted to even be beaten. Because i wanted to have some sort of human contact. And not be in this cell all by myself for two weeks, and three weeks. Rose what was the worst for you . The solitary confinement. Rose did it come after ten days or after 20 days or you know, was it immediate that the sense that im here. I have no control over my future. I dont even know who knows where i am and what they are doing to me. You dont know anything. I mean, the only way that you communicate with the rest of the world is through your interrogater. And his job is to tell you that no one cares about you. That no one does anything for you. That you are going to rot here if you dont collaborate. So that is just the fear. And thats why in the film we have that really joyous mr. Hillary clinton moment. Because one of my guards mistakenly called me mr. Hillary clinton one day. And there and then i knew that the rest of the world is thinking about me. Because Hillary Clinton was talking about me. That was the best day of i can to the say best day, because i dont think there were good days so this was better. You dont have too many good days. It was the least of the worst days. Rose tack a look at this. This is a scene in which we talk about what you saw in the trailer, the idea of crushing hope. Here it is. You will tell or they will tell me. No, no. Say it. You have the wrong people, sir. These are not you must not just take his blood. You must take his hope. Yes. He is the boss. Hes very good. He was in homeland. Yeah, yeah. Where is he from. Egypt. Egyptian american. But and how do they go about trying to crush your hope . Basically by telling me, basically by putting me in solitary confinement, and by telling me that i was going to be executed if i did not name names. Because the main reason for my imprisonment was to incriminate the reformists within the iranian government through me. So my interrogation was not really about my work as a journalist. On the first day they told me that i was a spy for cia, mi 6 and newsweek. Right when i said newsweek, and they said the magazine, your quote, unquote, magazine is part of the intelligence apparatus. So they wanted me to name some, the names of reformists and tell them that yes, i put, for example, ratsanjani or khatami in touch with British Embassy or ci, a. And they were telling me that, you know, just write down whatever we ask you. Dont worry about it. If you tell us that you put these people in touch with foreign intelligence agencies, i promise that you are going to be released tomorrow. And of course, i knew that many people had been executed because of these false confessions. So my challenge was to confess falsely, but not to incriminate anyone. Take a look at this before we move too far. This is the daily show issue that was used as evidence, jason jones interviewing. Here it is. As a spy, im just trying to figure out why your country is so terrifying. You know, the first thing to know about iran is that it is not evil. Actually, americans and iranians have a lot of things in common, more than they have differences. What do i have in common with you . What is the number one enemy of the United States. Al qaeda. Al qaeda is also the number one enemy of iran. Al qaeda members say that if you kill an iranian or if you kill a shiite you go to heaven and you get 72 virgins. Well, they wont be virgins for too long, huh . Right . You know what im say sfing upstairs . I run a very stupid show. Theres i really dont have anything to say. Maziar is a very brave man. He went through a terrible ordeal, i run a stupid show. Rose . But again, we have to repeat, i think we have to repeat that daily show did not have to do anything with my imprisonment. They had a scenario for me. And i could be on two and a half men and they could charge charlie shine of he is decision. Maybe Charlie Sheen is seditioist. Rose what i know about rosewater it may have been more interesting with Charlie Sheen. The interrogater would have enjoyed him. He was fascinate bid three things. Sex, jews and new jersey. Boom. As you know. That is your triple crown, baby. The trifecta. Sexy jew from new jersey. All three of those. Rose what were you looking for, speaking more on that, from rosewater. What were you looking for . What did you want us to see in this character . Something murr kurrial, something, you know, when we would talk about it t there is something very childlike. He is here is somebody who is as trapped in an oppressive system as other people. Not necessarily evil. His family has suffered great hardship and the shaws regime. Hes used as a weapon for physical violence and breaking people. This is an opportunity for him to step up. So hes got to be as operational. You wanted to bring somebody in who was viewing this as an opportunity. Not just for the state but for himself. To step up in weight class to. Have a vip prisoner. A guy with sophistication, with education, to show hes not just a thug who beats people. Hes got chops. Can do this. So in fact, in the scenes where hes the most vicious to maziar, its based on his own humiliation, more than it is of something that maziar has done. He reacts to something that his boss does in the pivotal scene where he is the most vicious. But what i was looking for most was somebody who could bring you those characteristics of imminent violence but within their eyes, a sense of sort of a childish kind of vulnerability. And again, a very difficult line to play. Its very difficult to be that character and yet still be able to infuse it with, and i dont want to say sympathy. Because i dont think you let him off the hook. But a sense of understanding that there is a three dimensional individual under there. Was there any kind of stockholm syndrome there. No stockholm syndrome whatsoever. Because i was trying to manipulate him. I knew that i dont like this person. I dont want to be with that person. But hes a human being. He is not a monster with. Rose thats part of it. You see the humanity of stockholm syndrome. I see humanity in everything. I see it in every person. But i dont have any kind of passion for them. I dont like them. I did not like my interrogater at all. I felt sorry for him, if that means stockholm syndrome. But i really feel i really felt sorry for him that what a waste of energy. What a waste of time, that he could be a good, i dont know, brick layer, maybe he could be a good accountant. I dont know, a good scientist, even. Maybe he could be a good sexologist. Rose doing something he get those satisfaction from. He was wasting his time by beating people, hum il yating people in a dark roomment and thinking that maybe he goes to paradise and gets. Rose it has to take something out of you. It does. It did, of course, of course. I mean im talking about it with hindsight. At those times yes, sometimes i felt angry, sometimes i felt frustrated. But i knew that my anger and my frustration, if i let them to exist in me, they would numb me from inside much more than it would hurt him. And he wanted that. So my challenge was to sub limb ate all the anger, all the frustration that i had inside prison to do something more positive like the magazine article, the book and the film. Rose right. Now how did you see in a sense from the beginning and the end, this character that you are portraying, the character you are portraying, where you had to take it . In other words, from where you we see him at the beginning to we are we see him at the end, what is this acting journey fornew. Well, its taking what mazier say maziar says about sub limb ating all this pain and this ordeal is where its put in the book. And in the book, it was like the platform for this approach. And i have been repeating this many times, that i cannot i cannot identify or even understand what maziar went through, really. Because it is so dpli karted complicated, so overwhelming it is something that i have never been close to, that the only thing i can do is through empathy. Through having emotional empathy and sub i will my my like incorporate maziars, lets say burst of putting everything out there, into my self. Putting everything out there for the character as well. For the new character that was going to be built. Because definitely it is a new character. It is the film version of maziars story that already comes from the book, you know. Tell me about the scene where he is dancing to Leonard Cohen. I believe that this mans hips, im talking about gael. And me. Lets not get crazy. This mans hips. Could be registered, again, with the cia with the moussd as weapons of mass destruction within the he brought it. The idea of the scene is. Rose to bring those hips. Exactly. Reclaiming your humanity through almost the one antithetical device to an oppressive regime which is dance, catharsis and joy. And reclaim this small space. And he reclaims, if you see every wall, every piece of that cell is reclaimed. And every move passed each area reclaims that as a place not of his confinement, but where he discovers his freedom. And thats what is so liberating about it. And to see that and cut to his interrogater watching on closed circuit tv and having no idea of what this is, or how to interpret it and his befuddlement and his inability to understand that expression of joy, even under these conditions. Rose he must be saying to himself, im failing. I honestly dont. Rose he has an inconquerable spirit. I believe there is an insecurity that always believes that. But i dont think he would have the sophistication to understand. I think was befuddle am. I think the main point of having Leonard Cohen in the book, during my experience and in the fill some that having a jewish singer songwriter from montreal providing relief for me inside an iranian prison, that was something that was totally strange to him. Because again that wa was something that i could tap in, i knew that Leonard Cohen could provide the soundtrack of my imprisonment without Anyone Around me, especially the interrogater, knowing him. So Leonard Cohen not only provided the soundtrack to my imprisonment, but also he was my secret weapon, secret tool. And in fact, actually, we have Leonard Cohen in the film. And it is Leonard Cohen im telling you there is not, i have never been around someone whose cultural literacy is at the level of his. We have been doing this for a wile going around there was one journalist who maziar was listening to him. He says where are you from. He says im from hungary. Maziar says so you got out in 1956. Do you know kessla. All of a sudden they Start Talking and start naming films and books and things. And im just sitting back there. Yeah, i watch the disney channel. Rose lets talk about the televised confession am tack a look at this. Here it is. You did not confessed. I said exactly what you wanted me to say. You confessed but nothing has changed. I did what you told me to do. I will see to it that you rot here. Your wife will never see you again. Your child, your child will never know you. And your mother will die broken. And you did this it gets funnier. That happens to be a relatively dark moment. Rose did you watch movies in preparation for this . Strangely enough, i did not. Because i had i think a source material that i thought was so compelling. And we mostly talked about the intention of how to articulate those scenes with the dp, bobby Jerry Sullivan who was production design. So we spent most of our time talking about not reference points, but because we had a source material in front of us and a script, that it mostly stemmed from that. We talked a lot about tone and how to set. I wanted things more naturallistic and i didnt want the camera to be intrusive in those kinds of things. But there was never any, you know, i want you to. I dont mean that, just learning from it. A variety of ways to approach this idea of interrogation that has been in a lot of films as you know. Is there something i like or dont like because i might have had directors without say they watch a ton of things and incorporated something that came out in the end was their own path that they wanted to take. Right. But are you saying you got there. By talking, collaboration. And also because i think that there was a very specific, i mean, the prison is a specific kind of prison. It is unlike any sort of torture scene ive ever seen in anything. More institutionalized. It is clean. Its a clean prison. That is something that i think everybody mentioned whenever you showed the material. We were lake how can it be so clean. Like a prison that is clean. And it feels clean. I mean, which makes it even more it is an office building, basically. Its not a hollywood rendition of prison. Rose the most famous prison in iran. It is. The most organized. Many people have died many people have died and tortured. And so it is, i think it was designed by the americans in the late 60s. Rose dow want to make another film . Have you even thought about that . I havent thought about that yet. People ask me a lot about it. But in the same way i didnt think about making this one. I havent thought about the next one. Rose i mean, i would think, i have seen where people have made films and had successful films. And i have heard people say you really ought to get back to it right away. In other words, dont wait five years to make the next film. Do i have to go now . All right, i will see. Rose start thinking right now. I mean, the one thing also that i want to stress because we talked about it earlier is i realized as we look at the clips, you know, part of the thrust of the fill some to also present a more nuanced view of Iranian Society as a whole. We have a tendency to view it as a monolith. Gael, when he touched on an idea, that it doesnt match our expectation of a middle eastern prison. I hope that it doesnt match our expectation of iran either. And that we see the incredible complexity of the country. The vibrant, youth movement. The educated, artistic, incredibly open, you know, especially in the first half of the movie. Its hopefully paints a very vital picture of a country that is not as easily categorized as in the axis of evil, in the same way that we are not the great satan. Hopefully it opens a little more of that conversation. And a lot of good filmmaking there as well. A lot of good filmmakers coming out of iran. Unbelievable filmmakers coming out of iran. There really is a sense that this is an interesting place. I mean they say, and some people, i think tom freeman may have suggested this, that in countries in the middle east where the government loves us the most, the people hate us the most. And where a government hates us the most, the people love us the most. Ie america. Of course, yeah. I think the majority of young iranians that i know, and i think the majority of young iranians, they above american culture. They love american ideals. Of course they do in the like some american policies in the middle east. They do not like the fact that American Government backed the coup deat that time in 1953 to topple a relatively democratic government at that time. But they loved american ideals. And they love american culture. And whenever i meet american officials, i always tell them that young iranians are your best allies in the middle east. And you have to find a way to communicate with them. Rose and what would you suggest . I think they have to make the sanctions a little bit smarter. Do not have this blanket sanctions. Because the problem with sanctions is that theyre blanket sanctions. All companies, all banks are afraid of giving letters of credit to people who want to export even medical or pharmaceutical goods to iran, even though there were no sanctions on medical goods and pharmaceutical goods. But banks being conservative, they do to the give these letters of credit. And as a result, many iranians inside iran see that as part of the sanctions. So what the state department, Treasury Department have to do, they have to send their bureaucrats to different banks to liase with them, to tell them that we have sanctions on these fields. We are sanctioning human right as becausers an Nuclear Program. We do not have any sanctions on pharmaceuticals. And also Technological Companies like google, facebook, twitter, alleviate their fears of dealing with iranians. Because iranians are using google, facebook and twitter illegally through these vpns and filter busters. They have to go to google, facebook and other Technological Companies and tell them that there is no punishment for dealing with iranians. Those are smart sanctions. But right now we had blanket sanctions imposed by the American Government. And western government. And that are hurting iranian people much more than the iranian government. Rose there is always a question about sanctions, there is always a question about sanctions. Yes, because they come up with the idea of sanctions. But they do not have the bureaucracy in order to implement it wisely. They should have the bureaucracy first. They should have the manpower first. And then come up with the sanctions. An sustain and they build animosity, like in cuba. I mean it is the same kind of, not just a blanket sanctionsofsome like just keep the struggle going. Rose i mean, this is an interesting fact of iranian life is that the idea of iran having nuclear potential, most of the iranian people, thats not a big issue for them. And it is, in fact but it is an issue of national pride. I think if you went to the streets. I agree. I mean they basically, if somebody would take it out, that would cause them to be much, much more hostile. No question. To the people to try to prevent them. Because it is national pride. And said that too, didnt he. Also i think the Nuclear Program has to do with the behavior of the government. As you remember argentina had a Nuclear Program between 1980 and 1982 before they had democracy. South africa they built six Nuclear Bombs, 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. And then as soon as they became democracy, first of all they abandoned it. But even if south africa had Nuclear Bombs right now, no one would really worry about it if argentina had Nuclear Bombs no one would or worry about it so i think in order to change the behavior of the regime, they have to communicate with the young people of iran. They have to give the space to young iranians to express themselves, to get the news. I mean i have always asked western governments to work on satellite internet because one of the main ways to democratize iran is to allow unfiltered internet in iran. How Much Research they have done, how much work they have done, nothing. It is kind of a character in this film. It is a character but it is more of a tool. And thats why it is, you know, i think theres just a small segment that gives a nod to its power and but i didnt want it to be something that was done explicitly and characters are continually going, it says on twitter there is a protest on you know, we wanted it to play as subtext an not necessarily as text. Rose when you read recently that the president had sent a letter to the Supreme Leader, what did you think . I think it is the right thing to do. The Supreme Leader of iran is the leader of iran. Iran is a very strong country in the region and there should be negotiations what. Is the alternative, bombing iran . Has bombing been successful in iraq n afghanistan, in libya . We are a still working on it, well get it right. Dont you be so quick to dismiss. When you get it right, just twit it, and then we can foe about it. Rose what has been the reaction in iran to the film sm. Very positive. I havent been on rotten babaganoosh yet. No, theyve produced some news pieces, i think, about the film, and my cia involvement. And my mosod involvement. I am one of the few people without have been accused of being zionist and antizionist t is a ven diagram that when it comesing to, there are only like three of news there. Thats good. Because i would hate it for the revolutionary guard to write a complimentary letter to jon stewart saying that death to all jews except for jon stewart and you know, are you the only jew that we like. And in this film you are really understood our values. And its a great fill. And on the other hand, on the other hand, i dont like that the conservatives here in this country, the hardliners in this country, to like the film either. I dont like that. And i think both extremists are going to find things they will find in this film that iran doesnt fit the stereotype that they have in their mind. Iranians are humans. It is me coming from a kind of a neutral ground. Yeah. I mean a lot of people that have seen the film that are not from the United States or not from iran, or not from lets say the western europe, you know, where the vision is kind of i mean where the signs are clearly drawn in the sands. People pick up onqcj57wwjn that the film talks about, that are nothing to do, even about iran in a way. Like what . Like torture, for example. System ate call torture all over the world. The fact that the struggle and the crisis of power. That how power is trying to find its way into new society and to control that, and so the issue that it talks about, maziar has been doing a lot of work, i mean has also spanned out in many other places, for example, the protection of journalists, for example, which coming where i come from, is a big huge megaissue. And a lot of people that saw that, for example it were picking up on that. Picking up on a much more kind of tangible, urgent ordeal that the film talks about. I think it talks about you know look, i think hopefully 23 you look at it on a the cure for that is journalist journalism and expression and as these governments continue to try, technology is dem october size, without is going to be bearing witness. The footage in the film of the gentleman being shot on the fence is maziar. At the time he shot t most of the westerly journalistless at that point had been asked to leave or relegated to their hotel room. So he felt a responsibility as the only really professionally trained journalist still out there shooting. Sow captured it and got it uploaded. But as news organizations, as though infrastructures cut back on money, youve got freelancers out there, bloggers, act vises, citizen journalists who are out there on their own in incredibly dangerous situations, putting their lives on the line, in many cases their freedom on the line, to to just have a witness to some of the atrocities and things going on within their countries and these other things. So the idea is to bring to their might some attention. Maziar was fortunate to have newsweek to have international attention. Its to bring attention to their might. And at the same time, to hopefully show the unsustainability of this. When you build apparatuses within the state and the soul purpose of that apparatus is to suppress or repress your own people, the cost of it, financially and in human capital, the state will begin to sag under that weight. And you watch it now, especially because they have to cast a much wider net. And sort of the lessons that we learned from colonialism and empire and all these other things that drain the resources of a state. And theres not a piece of information that could get out that would be as damaging to a state as these large large bure october advertise institutions of torture. This is about institutions no question opinions it is about institutions and institutionalized app ba governments had will do out of ignorance. Right. Yeah. I think what happened in 2009 in iran was that for the first time social media played a role in social movements. Facebook and twitter allowed people to gather information, share information and mobilize themselves in a way that has not happened in the past. Cairo, ukraine, hong kong. And ultimately ferguson. And i and i think that really frightened the governments because they saw millions of people coming to the streets asking for their rights as citizens of the country, and at the same time, they uses new digital tool that the government was unfortunately google plus was in the around at that time, otherwise i think the movement if you could go to iran, would you go . Absolutely. I would i mean it, from everything i can see, its incredibly beautiful. People are incredibly hospitality. Its extraordinary. Artistic, educated, vibrant. You know, i have had the food. Its delicious. Theres not a sing about it. No liquor. Other than the fact that they might not let you back out, that i would want to not i would love to. If you had the tant to go, would you worry about not being able to go back. I dont know if i would. But also i dont want to be naive. I know that this is probably not their favorite film. You can probably be sure of that. But i do hope that one day well be able to go. I want to go. I want to go back too. I have been there. And i didnt ive never felt like this isnt against them. This isnt demonizing them. This is expressing, you know, what they actually did to one man, but hopefully get that, something that has been occurring all over the world. This is not something you can dismiss as the singular issue of the regime. Are you taking this onestory to Say Something much larger about. I hope so. About what is happening around the world. And here. And here. Congratulations. Thank you, sr. Thanks for having us. Congratulations. Thank you, thanks very much. Appreciate it. The film is called rosewater. And it opens when, jon . Oh, charlie. Oh, for god tomorrow, no. Friday. Friday the 14th. Tomorrow night, thursday night were doing a big event for Stephen Colbert simulcast. I know about that. He is going to interview you. Myself an maziar. At something called fathom events. Com. And its going to be in simulcast through theatres. Were going to do that as an event. Show the film and do an interview. And i think the next day it4 op. Friday the 14th. Friday the 14th. And then the 3d version obviously comes out and imax and you take the whole thing. And youre happy about stephen turning a chapter in his life. Its awesome. Yeah, yeah, im really excited to see him untethered. Its going to be fun. Coming over for his last show. Its going to be beautiful. Thank you, jon, thank you. Thanks. Thank you for joining us. See you next time. For pore about this program and earlier episodes, vilsity us online at pbs. Org and charlie rose. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org funding for carlie rose has been provided by the cocacola company, sporting this Program Since 2002. American express, additional funding provided by and by bloomberg a provider of multimedia news and Information Services world wide. Hi, im ed slott. Its 2014, and theyre at it again. The u. S. Government is trillions and trillions of dollars in debt, and congress is just licking their lips trying to get their greedy hands on your hardearned retirement savings. Dont let them. Im here to show you how to rescue your retirement. Stay tuned for an updated package of gifts for 2014 that will help you and your family and help support this great Public Television station. Thanks. Announcer your retirement is in danger. 20, 30, 40 years of your hard work is at risk. Wall street banks and congress are waiting to grab whatever is left of your retirement savings