to these, not just those you see in front of cameras, but those who write to those who carried the cameras, those who get the film out. and they get very little recognition, except they do get a lot of criticism. it is always the need of political circles that they have agendas. you know what? you do have an agenda in those situations. it is to get the story and to stay alive. that is the agenda. so when you're arguing about what happened in japan, arguing about what happened in tunis or libya, remember, the only reason you know anything about it is that some despised but very brave journalists, men and women, cameramen, writers, and correspondents went there to find out for you. i will be back with a very interesting program about, believe it or not, the future of broadcasting. >> "white house chronicle" is produced in collaboration with whut howard university television. >> and now the program host, nationally syndicated columnist, llewellyn king, and co-host, linda gasparello. ♪ >> this program is sponsored by arizona public service. the leader in renewable energy, working to make arizona the solar capital of the world. and welcome back. thank you so very much for coming along. i have with me, as always, linda gasparello, of this program. and we have the extraordinary bob franken, a great writer and a great broadcaster. i will not say how many years you have been at those activities. it is lovely to have you. >> more than 5. >> one would not know from your skill level, would one? [laughter] you opened it up. and i am so very glad to have at the table steve o'hearn of corbinian, inc., who is an expert on the technology that is overwhelming the media. and back by popular demand, the lovely lauren ashburn of the endeavor group. that is what it says here. >> it is a new title. >> just the way you wrote it. >> what is the endeavor group? >> it is a strategic legal, business, and communications advisory group for high networks. >> that sounds a very bureaucratic. what do you really do? we help them spend their money appropriately. >> where are you located? >> 18th and pennsylvania. it is a global firm, but we're right here in the nation's capital. >> linda gasparello, what do you see as the future of the nation's broadcasting? when you see a crisis, broadcasting -- the old pattern, radio, news, television news still dominates. some said it would rather follow the crisis on twitter, but i do not see how you get any kind of the completeness of what is going on without professional journalists in many places reporting. we have not moved beyond that really, have we? >> not much beyond that. i think that the traditional journalists are still filling a very, very important role in broadcasting. but that role has been augmented by the great new wave of casting that is coming along, whether it is webcasting or anything else that is out there. >> of broadcasting has always been a news media. even before it was a news medium, it was probably more important. it was more important as an entertainment medium. what is it doing as an entertainment medium? >> and now there's a difference between broadcasting on the networks and then what has happened with cable. it is cheaper to do it on cable. i think that the big broadcast outlets, nbc, abc, and cbs have found that it is too expensive. cable can do it inexpensively. moving onward, now i believe we have got shows, entertainment, that are coming from the casting world. they're coming from the webcast in world. the cable operators are looking at this and saying, hey, this can be done even less expensively and still have a huge audience. >> bob, are we going to see you on "american idol"? >> what is your challenge? [laughter] >> the idol mind is the devil's work. >> blah. >> but when we talk about casting, i think that is the appropriate way to describe this. i think it is a mistake to differentiate between broadcasting, which is the old model. that is when we have on the network level the three networks. broadcasting to the broad audience. narrowcasting is where cable is -- which is that you have a news channel that is tested to those that are narrowly interested in the news at any given time. somebody wants to talk about home improvement, the food channel, and it goes on and on. now we have webcasts, which i would call undernourished casting. it is very little resources and putting stuff out there that can be picked up and collaborated with the other forms of electronic broadcasting. >> lauren, we should tell our listeners and viewers that you used to be with "usa today." you're managing editor of the television properties for their own companies. >> the broadcasting division there which owns 21 stations. yes. i started out in the television division producing documentaries for the discovery channel. we piggybacked with the reporters at "usa today" as the window to cover hurricane -- as they went down to cover hurricane katrina. we produced two documentaries for the discovery channel. as we progressed through the years, my agent was pushing us to do more reality-based programming. we then went to the life section of "usa today" and worked with a fabulous health reporter. she has a piece each year called "the weight loss challenge." we created for women's entertainment "the weight loss challenge" reality show. remember when "the biggest loser" started to get traction? we went from, the early-2000's, late 1990's, hard-hitting documentaries, when the history channel actually documented history, instead of "ice road truckers," which is their biggest show now. we continued on that reality path, until we sort of thought, ok, does the "usa today" brand really want to be doing this reality television? the reason it does is three- fold. one, it is cheap. you can pick eight people who want to be on tv. everybody wants to be on tv. you can pick these eight people who will do -- >> not bob franken. >> he gave that up. >> not "the biggest loser." -- talk about "the biggest loser." >> oh, bob. >> linda and i can get into a show on the cooking channel. >> we talk about the lowest common denominator, and we underestimate the corporate- types will come up with an even lower, denominator. >> if you look at what is happening in local television, for example, worries been a -- where i have spend a significant portion of my career as a reporter, thank goodness when i was there, i do not have to carry the camera, stand in front of the camera, said it up, shoot it, and then edit it. you did? >> absolutely. >> what is technology? the cost of production is coming down because of technology. we have this proliferation of outlets. some of them are very narrow, but they are there. and then going away from traditional media. what do you see as the consequences of this? >> it is interesting. we're talking about how the same content originators are getting their content distributor it out -- getting their content distributed out to the audience. what is happening on line with the web, and as you said, with the cost of production going down and the access to so many different avenues of distribution, there is an awful lot of people coming in at that -- that i think are really flying under the radar screen. there are sites like youtube. there are sites like ustream where charlie sheen, after he gets fired from warner brothers, still goes out and puts on a show. >> he is winning. >> and it gets attention because it is then shown on broadcast media and narrowcast. >> there is a question to which came first. when he was on the website- based audio distributed show, it was prominently a web story, i think. >> it also leads to a real ugly future. i am old enough to remember -- i used to know robert herridge, and he did live drama onstage. >> and then there was the one who started rca. >> who, what? >> i wonder if we can have a word with the director. other than those soviet era things, it would be in the middle of the program. television had hoped to have drama, to enrich, to educate. and as you say, it is ice trucks, and you go to the bio channel and it is the biography of a 27-year-old. lordy, that is not what we had in mind. >> lauren was talking about "it is so cheap to do this." the word is cheap. when the cost is $3.5 million for broadcast network to mount a one-hour show, of course you know cable would have the advantage with subscription rates. >> we did the weight-loss challenge for $1 million for i think eight episodes. >> right, but what i am saying now is that with this new casting, with web casting, you will have all of these and will be able to have the thing that television, i think, dreamed up. you can have an actor stand on a stage with the webcast and do production cheap. it is wonderful for the public. >> possibly the golden age of television, despite bob's presence there. >> god, why do you come on this show? >> charity. >> you like torture. >> people tried to do things because they were worth doing and did not worry about the costs. the costs were not that high. live theater, live drama was not that expensive. >> right. >> it was not any more expensive than doing a talk show. i know you were involved with "the actors studio," i think. >> not exactly. but i have acting experience. you call that being a news reporter. no, acting is part of it. but what you are saying is in the golden age of television, what you call the golden age of television, which was in the 1950's, is exactly the time that an fcc commissioner complained about tv aiming at the lowest common denominator. >> it was a vast wasteland. >> i think what has gone out of television is imagination. one of the most successful programs that bbc did back in the 1960's was to have this story and walk onto a naked stage, and he was a remarkable man. and he talked, and it was fascinating. thousands of professors cannot do that. he could do it. >> they absolutely do. you just have to find them. >> when i asked one of the heads of the big television station why they did not do live drama, without missing a beat, she said it is too expensive. nothing about a budget. that i talked to people in amateur theater who would love to do it. you see more creativity coming out of the public access stations that are coming out of these stations. >> i come from a generation that was just on the cusp of being a digital native. i was not. i was a digital adopter. but the generation that are digital natives have grown up with technology and flash and animation. >> you look at the amount of stuff going on. a bunch of stuff out. a lot of stuff going on. flashing lights. i would like to interrupt this discussion for station identification. rather old fashioned, i know. for the benefit of our listeners on sirius xm radio where the audio of this program can be heard at 9:30 a.m. every saturday morning on channels 110 and 130, you're listening to "white house chronicle," with myself llewellyn king, linda gasparello of this program, steve o'hearn of corbinian, inc., bob franken of king features, and lauren ashburn of the endeavor group, and we are endeavoring how to make some sense about what has happened with broadcasting in its totality and where it is going. >> your honor, can we interject? >> here is your prop. but you have a prop also that is similar. but this is the iphone. steve, if you're watching, you owe me. of course, there is a little android variety. the fact of the matter is we have all this. >> you are right. i think that all of this makes everything portable. >> at the same time, we have the very decidedly unportable hd tv's which are also big sellers. i think what that talks about is the synergy. i hate that word because it is so corporate. >> but the technology is not here yet. >> it almost is. i have an apple tv -- again, steve. and netflix is now starting to do original programming, which is going to bridge this gap even more. >> and you get the spies and 1950's movies. -- you can get those despised 1950's movies. >> with bing crosby. i am over it. >> tell us where you see this is going. >> very interesting. i actually watch more video now on my cellphone and iphone and ipad than i do on my television set. that tells about the consumption side of the story. >> tuesday not telling us about the creativity. -- it is not telling us about the creativity. >> here is the other side of that story. this is a two-way discussion. >> he was talking to us before we started. >> we can videotape this and upload this now. >> on the screen, it looks like some martian creature. >> you can create content and upload it before the conversation is even over with, and you can get everybody engaged in a way that was never happening before. >> it is like writing a play as it is being produced. it is on at two and act one is running. >> and the actor can create his own stream of thinking on a youtube channel. it is a stream of distribution. this might even turn into more traffic on the web. whether is quality or not, a different story. >> we are getting into modern technology. >> are you trying to show me off? but my point here is that narrowcasting -- how much time be spent on the web? >> a lot. >> a lot of time on the web? ok. the narrowcasting you are able to do on the web -- take current tv, which started out as a hybrid, on the web and on television. you are able to find the quality television/internet programming that you want to find simply by typing it in. >> we're not talking about content. >> the content is there. you're just not finding it. >> there was the fact that there was all this creativity back then. have you ever watched "modern family"? it is on abc. it is brilliant. a manifestation about modern times. it talks about all the different ways you can be in a loving relationship. the show that follows it immediately is called "the middle," and it is a wonderful commentary about middle-class america. abc, euna lee o me. -- you now olney. those are brilliant programs. >> and the period pieces that pbs does. >> what are the ratings? >> huge. if they are properly done, they can still grabbed eyeballs. >> absolutely. why can we not have a drama? there used to be 10,000 radio plays out of chicago. there are no radio plays now. >> i want to listen and watch. >> the thing about cheap is that it means there is less of a barrier to entry for those who have the creativity. if you look at those wonderful programs, the barrier of entry is enormous pit is enormous for the networks. but when you have got cheap, you can have the brilliance and creativity. >> there is the executive producer of "state of the union" on cnn. it is a legend in the television industry. he bicycled to work. what he told me is that in between his two gigs, he went around the entire country and talk to people in the know about internet video and internet television. what he found from all these experts and a different f01ocus -- and all these different focus groups is that people do not want this cat jumping on that the bird and whatever it is the people are putting out. they do not want it. they want little-produced vignettes. this is growing. people used to just watch and think the internet is fine for this. >> i am surrounded by veterans here. let me share one thing with you. the tale of two people that represent what is going on right now. conan o'brien is featured in "fortune" magazine this month. they talk about how he lost his nbc show and was wondering what to do with his contract which forbade him to be on broadcast television. he was looking at it one day at home with a staffer who had just started blogging for the show before he left nbc. they began tweeting and built a following on facebook, twitter, and youtube. "fortune" was describing this as the great media coup. there were showing his numbers with 8 million youtube viewers a month. they're getting it. there in the direction, but they're not there yet. >> but they were not getting paid. >> there is one man doing eight videos a month and getting 40 million hits. >> who has heard of ray william johnson? he uploads two videos a week, vignettes. some of them feature the tweeting bird or something else and he makes jokes. he brings in his audience. people comment. he is getting up to 6 million hits per day. >> how does he make a living? >> he has ads. on his profile page, he used to have an e-mail address or he said contact me for business. he has now taken that down because he does not need it. he has posted a thing saying if you're interested in putting me on television, i am not interested. >> are there people out there that do not enjoy that success? >> it is part of the future. i worked for the bbc in england when it was exploding with creativity. you know, all of these incredible things were happening. people were coming out of cambridge and oxford and just grabbing the television and doing things that had never been done. i worked in the news part and it had not got to estimate of the -- it had not got to us, and the whole organization was excited. because it had been the most boring organization on earth. it was so boring that when i had filmed the news of somebody in the robbery and blood was on the sidewalk, i cannot say blood but i could show the film. incredible. that was the old bbc, but the new bbc was already there. and it became a great laboratory for new people. an african-american friend of mine was living in london. radio play was produced by the bbc in scotland. they worked with him and showed him how to do it. it was not that hard. i used to do radio for them. it is much harder in this country today. where do you get in? where do you start? it is not the way it used to be. it is getting harder. i do not think that the more systems of delivery are going to improve what is going out. >> i disagree. when you consider, first of all, self-publishing. that has provided a portal for all these aspiring book writers out there that cannot solve all the intricacies of the publishing houses. >> you can compare it to charter schools. you can say that all this money and all the people who want quality and want to challenge the corporations that are going for the lowest common denominator are able to push that through. if you want to program a television channel, why would you want to put radio plays on? >> i am just talking about the totality of broadcasting. you would not put radio plays on. there is an interesting thing. television works well on radio. radio cannot work on television. it is a one-way street the other way. but that is not what i said. i would not put them on. but you need an incubator. you need places to grow ideas. >> but they grow on the internet now. >> they are not. you can say it over and over, but it is not true. >> yes, they are. >> what is happening is an incredible delivery system is being confused with new talent outlets. they are not new talent outlets. what great play writers come out of the internet? what great musicians come out of itunes? tell me. >> there was someone making videos out of sao paulo, brazil playing with a pot and a cheap guitar. heated two-minute videos. he overlaid it with final cut professional software. and now he has got the attention, and mcdonald's has hired him to do a commercial. who would have heard of justin bieber, for crying out loud? >> ok, another good example. >> in fact, the web can also be sort of were you do your resume take or were you come up with your portfolio. your blogs can be part of your portfolio. >> no one is saying that they're not good uses, but it is not being used in the way that broadcast journalism originally was or that broadcasting was, which was to bring in the creative arts, all of them. the creative arts have largely been squeezed out for the common cuts. >> and narrowcasting. you can watch ovation tv, which is a private endeavor, and it is just one cultural delight after another. that is their purpose. within the realm of narrowcasting, they're able to solve the economics. >> this is our show. sorry. so sorry you had such a boring time. we will be back next week with more great old-fashioned television. until then, all the best. enjoy your viewing and listening. cheers. ♪ captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- ♪ >> "white house chronicle" is produced in collaboration with whut howard university television. from washington, d.c., this has been "white house chronicle" -- a weekly analysis of the news with insight and a sense of humor, featuring llewellyn king, linda gasparello, and guests. this program may be seen on pbs stations and cable access channels. to see the program online, visit us at whitehousechronicle.com.