Extended a dialogue and im supportive of that and i think he wants to put the church in a larger context. But there are some realities that eventually he has to go beyond talking. And abortion is one and the role of women and particularly of nuns. Because this is an issue he has raised he wants to come up with a deeper theology of women which a nun wrote in Time Magazine she didnt know what that meant. There is a lot of deep theological analysis by nuns. Its not a new concept because he avoiding the bottom line issue what is the role nuns will have . He publicly said the ordination of nuns is closedp the excommunication of the priest in australia who is known supporting the ordination of nuns is telling you where he is going. And this is not going to be easy for him. This is not going to getaway with words. He has to start acting if he is going to maintain his popularity. I was going to say the priest excommunicated was not just because of the issue of supporting nuns being Holding Higher offices or seats. But the fact that he outwardly supported gay marriage which is he officiated and that is he broke the rules. And not to get into the cat kiss um. He outwardly spoke against the rules of the church. That is not his job to do i think there is a larger issue which speaks to our own sort of characterization of catholicism. Unfortunately there are teachings that are both which we consider liberal and conservative. And we so much want to sort of put catholicism into one group or another. And its not. It is a much larger complex religion that looks at. I mean if you are talking abortion and life then you have to talk about the fact that the church doesnt believe in premarital sex. One of the issues is you know, when sort of a relationship is consummated within a marriage there is a belief that all of those unions should then turn into children. So there are a lot of more complex deeper issues but what do you think about what he means about a deeper theology for women and giving women more power within the church . Well, i think that means recognizing more at least the scholars that i would talk to who would say sort of the role of the virgin mary within the stories of the bible and within essentially a context of jesus life. There are passages within the bible which speak to does it translate into anymore real powers for nuns it could. In reallife. Reallife its important to understand the dogma versus the tradition. This is where we have sanctity of life and marriage. Et cetera. Then you have the churchs traditions the male priest, the fact that priests cannot get married. That can change it could change. So i think that is where you have to understand where it all kind of plays out. Let me throw in how was jesus born . And essentially she comes back and says it was between god and a woman and man had nothing to do with it. The other side is if you get into these deep teachings there are actually questions about the role that women might be able to play which is a deeper more expandsive role but the talent the church has is there are a lot of churches with no priests because theres not enough priests to run the church. Its losing money because of all the pedophilia cases and losing followers because it is not a modern church. You know its out of context of the reality. And across all churches why . Because our country is becoming more secular. Europe is becoming more secular. Its not just the Catholic Church but crisis are occurring in other churches because our countries in europe, they are deciding they are not going to be religious. And there is an easy way to sum it up which is educated countries where theres more education in the italy, women are having 1. 4 children on average that is the fertility rate. That is nothing. That is not replacement value. Its the seat of the vatican why . Because women have its the highest rate of phd females in all of europe and the economic plays a role because they cannot afford to have more children. There are several factors besides the education the truth is educated women have fewer kids. But, but and that is a global truth inside and outside the Catholic Church. But last, lets talk about the pedophilia scandal. He hasnt really is all of the rest of this a way to push that behind the headlines . Well, i think that some of this has to do with the fact that they still have essentially legal issues. And certainly the church is not going to come out if they think they have to be on the hook for greater damages with legal complaints that are still pending. Lets be clear. What happened was wrong. It was illegal. And i certainly do not support those who move priests from place to place to hide it. They should have been exposed and kicked out of the church. But i believe that the popes dialogue or the discussion is about opening the dialogue with the world and understanding who we are as catholics. Because as so many other religions, there is a misinterprettation. Evangelicals are seen to be lunatics and crazy bible thumpers and catholics are said the same way. But we are people who have a strong faith in god. And we want the world to understand why we have that faith and i think that is what the pope wants to do all right. Our behind the headlines segment is celibacy and the Catholic Church. Mary johnson was a nun who spent 20 years in Mother Teresas missionaries of charity order. She resigned and is a married atheist and writer live in the southwest. We spoke with her about her fascinating and daring book, an unquenchable thirst on the one hand we were trying to help the poor. We were feeding them, sheltering them, comforting them. But on the other, Mother Teresa understood that suffering was what brought a person close to god. And she felt like the poor were closer to god because they were suffering more. Mary johnson joined the order to help the poor of calcutta, india. Instead her time was riff inwith inner conflict. Mother teresa taught nuns not just to abstain from sex but avoid touching anyone for any reason whenever possible we were having poor, two sets of clothes. Washed one everyday hoped it dried. Obedience we never had any say. Chastity was extreme. We could write our families once a month. We had to cutoff all relationships with friends we had. We were not allowed to talk to one sister alone. Nuns were only allowed to visit families once every 10 years. Strong connections between nuns were discouraged. Johnson began a physical relationship with another nun i was very lonely. The sister got close to me and it felt good. It was like someone is paying attention to me. Someone wants to know who i am. Wants to spend time with me. And at the same time, i knew that i had this vow of chastity where i wasnt supposed to have that kind of relationship. I was supposed to be only for jesus. I felt guilty and conflicted stoovment deprived of company and intimacy johnson continued her secret entanglements i had a relationship with a priest as well afterwards. And you know, i think its impossible to say that you can really have a healthy relationship with a priest because it has to be something secret. After 20 years as a nun johnson left. I just left because i felt suffocated and i knew that this was not a place that i could flourish. I kept hearing i heard the words of jesus in my mind. I came that they may have life and have it to the full. And i felt like my life was not full now, johnson is an atheist. She wants to call attention to the issue of Church Celibacy we all have the needs for intimacy to love and to be loved to be known by another person there is no theological barrier to having a married clergy. And i hope that that might change. Even in death, Mother Teresa is one of the worlds most respected women. She won a Nobel Peace Prize among many awards during her lifetime. The Catholic Church is moving toward making her a saint. While johnson admired Mother Teresas charitable work she was disappointed by other factors she was the only women in the church with enough Political Capital where the pope and the bishops would listen to her. But she never disagreed with them. She felt that her place was to obey them and she said whatever the church teaches that what i am going to believe. And that is how she got on in the world but i do not think it was a service to women or to the poor. When you hear about how strict not see your family but every 10 years . I mean was Mother Teresa very good to her subordinates . I am not one to question how Mother Teresa or any order is run that is not my place. I had an opportunity to read the memoir. And you know, a memoir is about your perception of your life and things that happened in your life. So im not questioning whether they did or did not happen in her life but i think something that she did not discuss is that you know, sometimes you feel you have a calling whether its to be a priest or preacher or nun and there is a time that you realize maybe i dont have that calling and i need to step back. And she was in a position that she knew early on she should have stepped back and didnt. The thing she discusses in the book about there was a predator, she is sayings it was a predator fellow nun on other people. She should have been exposed and taken out of the order. Those things should be addressed. Agree . Disagree . And the thing about celibacy is it just not going to work . I think this is where what you see is this division between what is god and what is man. And when i say that what i mean is that god at the sort of spiritual level is about love. And sort of man and human beings are about power. So the problem is there is always they are also about hormones and theres this tension between sort of surrendering to god and allowing human beings to control what that means. And i think that some of what you see here is when human beings are in control of what it means to be faithful to god, there become these huge problems i think its important also, there is an article that came out in the Washington Post a blog from father obrien, a jesuit priest and chose to live a celibate life. The people make the commitment to godment you might not understand it. But it is what they feel is their calling and their vocation and he said that he was in a committed romantic relationship before he was 29. And he was working his job and he felt unfulfilled. And now he is 46 years old and says look i have my struggles with my vows once in a while. Im human but ive made a choice this is a choice. No one is forcing the women to be in the missionary. They can get out. Women have the choices. And so he then decided i can i am fine being celibate. I am fully serving god and the people that he serves in georgetown well, im not disagreeing with you and that is true and sexuality has many dimensions and different people act differently to celibacy and the same people act differently in different stages of their life exactly. But i have to say that kudos to her for telling the story. She told a very controversial story and she is putting on the table the inside of what it is like to try to lead a celibate life. And we have to agree that the pedophelia cases are linked to t and the rumor that the gay sons of the irish families would end up priests and how did they manifest their sexuality . I would say the urban myth but it is there. So you know it is a hard balae to sue press your sexuality it is not a holy situation based on that. That is why we have the pedophelia cases it is a terrible rule to have. And because like we think back to the middle ages somehow they were able to stay celibate and not have all the scandals. The real difference is communication. Back then there was none and you could run a boys choir and do what you wanted to the kids and it would not get into the newspaper or twitter or anything of that and in america its famous the former president of pair gay was the priest and he had kids galore. Its known that the priests were not celibate. But you know, celibacy, the rule of celibacy is not part of the dogma it is a tradition. It started in the third century . The middle ages. And there were priests that were marrying. And popes that were marrying. This is come down the line into the point where celibacy has been accepted. And again as marcy said no one is forced to do this if they have decided they want to take the vows but there arent at least in the states and europe there are not enough signing up but what i did want to say is every person that is celibate is not going to be a pedophile or a rapist or predator. But the large per tadges of them will have sex in some way shape or form most of the research on pedophelia and who becomes these are people that have been abused themselves. This is psychological replication. Im not talking about pedophelia just priests and nuns having sex not with children and i think that when you are talking about celibacy generally, i mean, again, i take it back to this issue of control and power. Because a lot of it does have to do with human beliefs around the fact that you dont want somebody to have divided loyalties. So you want that persons complete loyalty to jesus christ and to the church itself and the nuns i really wish there would be a nun and priest to really engage in more of a theological conversation about it. But ive met so many nuns and been so blessed some have taught my children and they feel they are married to christ. You might not understand it, bonnie but it is the mist industry of their mystery of their lives that they decided im going to marry jesus and that can be odd for people that are not catholic but for the ladies that decided i will make this commitment why do you have to be celibate in order to be able to run a church . I mean that is why that is fine for that nun. And married to christ. The problem is how do you run a church that way . Some people say and talking to a reverend friend of mine and he says when i have to manage my family and i have the crisis of my people you know what i mean . Im divided. When you have the priest the priest is on call for you when there is a marriage and a baptism and a death. I mean he is there for you. I mean literally. I called my priest and i got a call 30 minutes later. His his commitment to his parishioners and to the lord and that is why they make that vow and it is a tough vow and counter cultural vow and we might not understand it but it is what they have committed their lives to and how best they feel they serve god and their lives are fulfilled. Let us know what you think. Follow me on twitter. From the convents to political converts. Women are slowly increasing our ranks in National Office but as Major Political donors not so much. Only 11 of the top 100 don fors in the 2012 election cycle were women. What is more surprising that number is just more than half or lower than it was in 1990, two academies earlierment while decadesleer. While the percentage increased its done so only slightliment the donor gap is holding steady. Not only do men donate more often they generally give more money. All right. So is it because women dont have as much money as men . Which the common thought is they are not as rich i dont know if that is born out in the data at all or is it because they dont give to politics . Well, i mean what ive seen both as a former fundraiser back in the 90s and as well as serve in academic it has more to do with two things; womens donor strategy. Women tend not to be strategic and more risk adverse than men. What you find is they will distribute sort of the maximum amount to a whole host of candidates rather than if you will placing a big bet on one candidate or in one organization. So theres that side of it. And the other piece is that in the 90s we had simpler sort of finance laws. So they were easier to navigate and you really did have the ability to sort of give maximum amounts to a host of candidates and then give a chunk to the party and that was it. It wasnt much more complicated. Now, many high donors actually hire fundraiser to help them navigate this incredibly complex world. And we know when theres complexity women will participate less because the culture and the tradition is not there for participation. So if you need to hire someone to do your donations its difficult. Although i have to say that when i was reading the piece, i was thinking of all my connections to political donations in the Latino Community which is where i have donated most of my money is women. I guess maybe its my little world its not representative of the majority but there is a network of latinas that is very active let us not forget women who are in partnerships that are married. Maybe they as a couple agree and they are donating it together as opposed to an individual giving her money to a candidate. That is a great opportunity. I think this shows that we have to get more women engaged in saying look you donate you get the candidates you want in office. There is a opportunity for fundraiser to get involved and pull the women in to give money. Get involved and generate power for women. Thats it for this edition of to the contrary. Follow me on twitter bonnie erbe and to the contrary and visit our website, web web where the discussion continues and whether you agree or think to the contrary, please join us next time. [777] [777] funding for to the contrary provided by. The Cornell Douglas foundation. Committed to encouraging stewardship of the environment, land conservation, watershed protection and eliminating harmful chemicals. Additional funding provided by the colcom foundation, the Wallace Genetic Foundation the Carpenter Foundation and by the charles a. Fruaff foundation. Visit our pbs website. Bob scullys world show is brought to you by smienerpro. The solution in energy optimization. And by. Domaine pinnacle ice apple wine. Winters gold. Hi, this is bob scully, and welcome to another edition of the world show entrepreneurs the lengvari series. Remember those chilean miners stuck at the bottom of the shaft in the mountain in chile who were finally rescued, each and every one . How could we not remember . The whole world was watching. Ironically, in that very same mine, in another shaft, was the equipment designed by the entrepreneur youre about to meet; equipment precisely designed to save the lives of miners in the future when things like this happen. It couldnt apply in that case, but it certainly will in the years to come. His name is walter siggelkow. Hes from sudbury, which is sort of the mining capital of canada, certainly, and maybe even of north america, and his mining expertise is shared by almost everybody in that town. And one day, he and his buddies were sitting around a beer, and they thought of doing better with the remote equipment that existed. There was remote equipment that you could send into the shafts without putting a miners life at risk, but it wasnt very well done. And he started tinkering, and hes a robotics engineer, and he started looking at it more closely, and as he says, he finally built a better mousetrap. His buddies, some of them stayed in the business, some of them didnt, but from that conversation around a beer came hardline solutions, a company that is now present not only in canada, in south america, but all over the world. Its a company, in a sense, that is making mining much safer and therefore much better. Heres walter siggelkow. Walter siggelkow, entrepreneurs get launched for all kinds of reasons and in all kinds of settings, but this is one of the first times where it started around a beer with some buddies. That usually leads to more beer and maybe a hockey game or a baseball game, but in your case it led to a really good idea, so how did it start . Yeah, we were 6 guys sitting around a lake, overlooking a lake, having some beers and talking about the idea of building a better Remote Control system for the Mining Industry. At the time, we called it a better mousetrap. And, you know, that went on for a few months nice summer days sitting over the lake in wanapitei lake, and eventually we just started the company up, the 6 of us, and that was the beginning of it. Was it a prototype . I mean, its one thing to sit around and talk when you have no capital, and concretely how did you do it . Well, the whole use of these Remote Control systems in the Mining Industry was something that was adapted from overhead cranes, but at the time, nobody had actually specifically for mobile equipment in the mining atmosphere. So, what we did is we said, well, we can build a better one. But of course, we didnt have one. We had to actually go out and design and build one, but we also had contacts in the Mining Industry that were looking for service on their existing equipment, so when we started the company, we actually started doing service work. Hopefully that was going to fund the r d to build this radio system, which it did for about 6 months, and then we ran out of money. The usual thing. Yeah, the usual parts, and then carried on for the next 8 months without a paycheque to carry on building it. And the 6 original guys dropped to 4 guys, because a couple pulled out, and it was about. Approximately a year, a year and a half later, that we actually built our first prototype, and it was installed in placer dome mine up in timmins