Always the right time to do the right thing. I just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. We know that we are only halfway to completely eliminate hunger, and we have a lot of work to do. Walmart committed 2 billion to fighting hunger in the u. S. As we work together, we can stamp hunger out. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Smiley. Pleased to welcome keanu reeves to this program. The talented and popular star of so many notable projects, including, of course, the matrix trilogy, is out now with a terrific new documentary about the changing nature of filmmaking. The project is called side by side. Are you done with them . Do not hold me to it, but i think i am. We are going through a very significant enlarged transition in cinema, and large transition in cinema, and the visual process democratizes the whole thing. I always thought you have to have a certain kind of knowledge. Basically, you have to be a dude who knows how to operate machines to do this job. I want to push the art form even further, to be able to make things you could not envision before. We are being forced into transition. Periscopic lee, you need the two images to exist. You cannot shoot threed on film. Film has been dead in my heart for 10 years. I hate 3d. It is a marketing scheme. I really thought this is the future. How is it different, and how do you use it to tell a story . It is up to the filmmaker. Tavis first of all, im honored to have you on the program. Oh, thank you. Tavis so much to talk to you about, and i want to jump right into it in just a second. But i suspect i should probably start with a laymans definition of digital versus film. My mother watches our show every night okay. Tavis and i figure if mama dont understand, then the conversation cant get liftoff. Right. Tavis so for my mother and those other folk watching who dont really get the difference between digital and film and why this is worthy of a documentary and a conversation, lets explain that first and well jump from there. Okay. What were talking about, were pretty much in the context of talking about the impact of Digital Cinema through editorial, through visual effects, through exhibition, so how do you project it, and then for me, which was the emotional connection, the digital camera. When we talk about how movies used to be made, it was over 100 years of film, literal, physical film, with emulsion, that we would expose to light and we would get pictures. Then came this new technology that would basically take photons and hit a sensor that would turn the photon impulses, the energy of the photons, instead of hitting film, would hit a sensor, and instead of a Chemical Reaction happening, you would basically get ones and zeros youd get a value for a color, red, green, or blue. So were just kind of talking about heres some light, weve got some film, and we just process it and then wed project it and wed watch a movie. Now were talking about sunlight hitting a sensor and going to ones and zeros into a box, and we take that box and then we project that, and now were watching a movie. Tavis so another one of these technological advances. Yes. Tavis you paused when you said yes, and i want to dig into that. I ask is it really a technological advance. Obviously, it could be argued in some ways that it is advancing us. But is it causing challenges in other ways . Well, its an industry shift, so practically, its like what is the role of the cinematographer in making a movie now . He used to be in control of the image. He was the magician. He knew how to do just dealing with exposure for film, and he was the one who knew, or she was the one who knew. That image now digitally, its on the monitor, everyone can look at it. Now its like, cinematographer, i dont know, thats not looking so good right there. Its a little dark up there. So it becomes more of a collaborative art. Also, its had impact in terms of jobs, in terms of processing film and film camera makers have stopped making film cameras. I just want to kind of back up a little bit too. In terms of when i was explaining the digital part of that, that was just for the camera. But thats also in terms of when were talking about digital were talking about computers, computing, computing power. So for visual effects, where you used to film stopmotion or if you were doing models, now its just in the computer. When we talk about films like avatar, James Cameron in the documentary says theres not one frame of a real jungle. So now he can do whatever he can dream. Digital has opened up a world of possibilities to filmmakers and artists, whereas before, you cant film it, you cant, you know. So thats a very exciting time. To come back around to your question, what are we losing . What have we gained and what are we losing. The documentary takes you through the workflow of a movie, so if you love movies, when youre watching it, it kind of holds your hand and says this is editorial, this is a visual effect, and it kind of walks you through movies so that hopefully when you watch a film, youll have a for me, my ambition and hope was that you would have a richer appreciation for what youre looking at, and to enjoy movies in a different way. But what are we losing . Its a hundred years of how we did things, the big screen film. Its gone. Artists are losing the choice to use film. People have a love for it the grain, how it feels, the texture. Now its christopher nolan, the director of the batman films, is an example. He was saying this industry, artists are being forced to make a change that isnt as good as film. Take this digital camera well, its cheaper, its faster, its lighter, its quicker, and hes like, but its not as good. Yeah, but its cheaper, its faster, its quicker. [laughter] yeah, but its not as good. But its cheaper. Tavis yeah. So theres a lot of the producing pressures on artists to use that. When we started to make the documentary, that was kind of transitioning and i kept asking, well, how much longer . What that means is that when you go to the movies now you wont see a photochemical projection. Some people would say thats great, theres no scratches. Digitally now itll just be all perfect and clean and just settled. But then other people would say, but its not as rich. So are you getting an inferior product . Is that and then also digitally now with distribution were seeing different ways of storytelling, right . So now you can stream it when youre on demand, you can go on your computer, people are watching movies on their pads, on their phones, on everything. So how is that changing . Tavis you mentioned earlier that this is and obviously, youre right about this it is a transition that the industry is undergoing. But to your earlier point as well, there is still debate about this. You talked to some great directors in the project; some of the names have already come up in this conversation. How would you characterize the debate thats happening in the business, or is it much ado about nothing, given that it is the way of the future and there may be a few holdouts, but the debate is the debate meaningful at this point . It depends who youre asking. I think i dont know, maybe its nostalgia. But the choice, losing the choice to be able to use film is going to be its gone. Its going to be gone. Of course like you said, some artists, some people will be able to have a kind of im going to choose to use film, but i dont know, maybe its just romantic or not, but its, its gone. Its not completely, but its changing. Like all of the projection. The studios, hollywood, they dont have to pay for the prints, they dont have to ship the prints. Theres all of those kinds of things. Tavis earlier in this clip and in the documentary, somebody made the point that what this does is it democratizes the process. I think george lucas is the one who said that in the film it democratizes the process. You agree with that . Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. On different were looking at still cameras that ended up to have video capability. The dslrs, the 5d the 7d, and filmmakers were like, wow, if i put a lens on this and i can shoot video, i can make a movie. So the means of production are so much less expensive, the quality of what youre getting now is getting its becoming fantastic. You can put almost professional lenses on these cameras. So yeah, its cheaper, and if its cheaper and more accessible and it takes less technicians, i dont need all these people tavis right, that means anybody can do it, ultimately. Theres the short answer. Tavis but is that a good thing . Is it a bad thing . Tavis there are enough bad films already being made in this town. [laughter] there are enough bad films coming out of this town already without the process being more democratized. Im a guy who loves democracy. Im all for democratizing any process, but i think there is a price to pay for that. Its like the blogosphere. Everybody has an opinion now, but i dont really freaking care about all opinions aint created equal, because everybody can go out there and express themselves and hide behind some character we dont know who you really are, a bunch of cowards im sorry. Im sorry. I got carried away there for a second. But the point is that because its democratized and anybody can do it, does that mean were going to have greater access to better film . Im not sure i believe that. Yeah, who knows . I dont know the law, the kind of law of quantity and quality, but i think the opportunity of people being able to express themselves and to have the means of production is a great thing. Its also changing how were telling stories. The serialization through the internet or through digital portals, means of ways of communicating, and i think thats great. I think the form, the hollywood movie, i think the quality is obviously always going to be there and i think that the question of taste, theres always a question of taste. Tavis right. But its really an exciting time for storytellers and for people to get their story out. So thats kind of cool, whether we like it or not. Tavis yeah, i accept that. Let me ask a personal question. I wonder if this technology had been available to you at the start of your now threedecade career as an actor, whether or not you might have made different choices, whether or not you might have jumped behind the camera before you did. How might this technology, had it been around 30 years ago, impacted keanu reeves career choices . I dont know if it would. No, i dont think if there was a great story to tell, if i had the opportunity to play this role or to work with suchand such, i dont think the idea of like well, im shooting digital. Oh, well, i cant do that. No, no. I dont want to act on digital [laughter] so i dont think so. I dont know, i was thinking like what would my own private idaho have been like if that was a digitized movie . Would that have i dont know. It becomes quantum, doesnt it, because you cant know, you cant project those ideas. But personally, i dont think so. Tavis so what then second personal question what got you, then, interested in this particular subject matter, to the point of spending all this time to do a documentary about it . Yeah, i was doing the post on a film called henrys crime that i was involved in, and there comes a time in a i was in new york at technicolor new york, and we were doing a process which is explained in the documentary called the di, or color correction. So we shot the movie on film. Then they scanned it, digitized it, and then they start working on the color, balancing all of the edits and everything together digitally. Then there comes a time where theyre like okay, weve got this great digital image now on the screen. Now we have to match it back to film, photochemical film. So behind you is a colorist and a timer one guy who works on Digital Color and another guy who works on photochemical. They start talking, and thats where side by side came up. Because the old and the new were kind of speaking to each other, or this medium. Then at the same time, the cinematographer was showing me images on his 5d, going, look, i just shot this for a commercial, and then the director was saying to me, yeah, ive been shooting digitally. Then i was talking to the guy at technicolor saying that they werent, the Film Companies who were making film, their business was changing. I was working with chris kenneally, the director of the documentary, in post, he was working on the film, and i was looking around, and i just had this moment where i was, film is going away. This is all going to change. This is already changing. That hit me, and i guess because i grew up with film, i wanted to go on an expedition to find out what that meant and what was the impact of digital. Where did we come from, where are we going and where are we today. Tavis ive had similar conversations. Youre the first person to really dig into a documentary about this, so im glad you did, but ive been honored to talk to a lot of folk in this very chair about this issue. James cameron and i had a great conversation about this one night on this program. Oh, yeah, great. Tavis danny boyle and i had a great conversation about this one night on this program. So ive kind of played around the edges with this, and i can see how digital allows for things that heretofore have not existed. You mentioned avatar early in this conversation. So i get that. The flip side of that though is that while its true that nothing we see coming out of hollywood is real i mean, its all hollywood, these are actors and these are stories that are being told so nothing is really real in that sense, but i wonder how it ultimately impacts the movie profession, the actors. Youre in front of and behind the camera these days. One day you could completely be written out. If everything is avatar like and you get to create characters and nothing is as it appears, whats it do for people actors and et cetera in this business . Yeah, it starts to grow. The ideas start simply and then the possibilities of it are is it a virtual actor, the idea of real becomes even it just starts going. Because the artificiality can be presented so real, and thats always been the case, but now it really is. In terms of i hope i dont become just an animation. [laughter] the idea and it turns into things as well, is that we talk about the materiality of things, that something exists. When something doesnt exist anymore, its just in a box. You cant shine light through it. Its not there. The experience of doing it, living to edit and cut and have contact, to changing the rolls of film, to hearing the [makes noise]. To have it being that its even though its pretend, there still feels, i think, in a human way, some kind of contact, a reality to that theres something really, physically capturing us. Or whoever, however we are in the light, low light, whatever, somethings actually there. When its digital, its a recreation of this event, and i dont know if it its a different version of real, isnt it . Its some other im sure were seeing that in printing, just the loss of books into digital, so less the content is there, but the object isnt. Well, an object is, but its not the independence of it. I dont know if thats philosophy or if thats something else, but to me it has an emotional feeling to it, that this materiality, the loss of the materiality. Tavis im feeling like im getting lost in the matrix right about now. [laughter] im getting lost. I dont know. Its like i dont know, its like a contact with your medium. Like if we shake hands, its flesh and blood, a contact. If we have a simulation, if something is there and then we kind of, our avatars have contact so were sharing an idea of like, lets shake hands, but we havent shook hands. I think thats something thats changing. Tavis i wonder if how do i phrase this . Cameron would just be laughing at me right now. Hed be like, reeves, come on, i spend hours, but this is a different person. Im sorry to interrupt. Tavis no, no, please. Its just that the artist whos making that artificial world, the sweat, the blood, the creativity, the time spent, thats as valid as well. So i dont mean to tavis no, no, no. I was going to ask two other things. One, i wonder how much, if any i have my own thoughts about this how much to this push to digital, and if not, the push to, the overwhelming embrace of, has to do with the fact that audiences are getting harder and harder and harder to impress. So its not even so much about great storytelling. Im not trying to bash the industry that you are a part of. Its not even that were not getting Great Stories told anymore. Its that you dont even have to do that. If you can come up with something, if youve got a great story and its told digitally well and you impress people, then god bless you. But i wonder how much of it has to do with the fact that audiences are just harder and harder to impress nowadays, and if you can play these tricks and games and do all this mimicry with digital, why not . And, to your point, its cheaper, its faster, its all those other things. But how much of sometimes. Tavis this has to do with that were getting harder and harder to impress with oldline, oldschool filmmaking . Mm, i dont know. Batman was shot on film. Tavis yeah. But theres still digital visual effects in that. I dont know, thats the idea of the audience, then, right . Tavis right. What is spectacle, what is spectacle playing the part of entertainment . What are we looking for . Martin scorsese in the documentary talks about young people not believing the image anymore. I dont quite know the implications of that, but that ties in to me something about that idea, of spectacle and entertainment and not but that happens as well in traditional filmmaking as well. The ambition to go further imagistically, to do the more impossible. I think thats part of the fun. But i think were also just talking about the literacy of the audience. The visual literacy of the audience. Theyve seen so many images now, especially here in the states. Theres so much to look at, to watch. So the visual storytelling literacy is harder to impress. Tavis you talked earlier about the fact my time is running here, so i have to do this quickly. You talked earlier about the fact that this digital makes the project in many ways much more collaborative. This is inside baseball, but over the years of doing this and being a film lover and being in this town, ive come to appreciate what cinematographers do. Like i appreciate costumers. You do this long enough, you start to really appreciate all the names of all those folk who you see at the end of the movie. Is this a friend, digital, the friend or the foe of cinematographers . Certainly in the early days it was the foe, because it wasnt good enough. As digital cameras are Getting Better and color recreation and the technical side of the camera is improving, thats becoming less of the issue from the cinematographers ive spoken to. Also, the other issue for them was who controls the image. So in that room with the cinematographer was the colorist, and so hes now changing the color and that has always been happening, but now its like okay, well, when it goes to vis effects, what does it look like . Then when it comes back, and once it starts going into the cinemas, to the bluray, the ownership of the image is getting the time spent for the cinematographer is getting more and more involved. Tavis ive got 30 seconds to go. Can you just tell me a quick work about the tai chi project . Oh, sure. Thank you. Tavis yeah, please. I directed a film called man of tai chi. Tavis your directorial debut. Yes, indeed. Tavis yes, sir. Yes, indeed. A kungfu movie that we shot in beijing and hong kong, and its a kungfu film. I play the villain. This lovely actor named chen hu, tiger chen, is playing this innocent man of tai chi who, because of life and responsibilities, has to get involved in underground fighting. Its about the yin and yang and power, and power is an illusion. Tavis all you have to do is say its a kungfu film. Thats it. Okay, im sorry. Its a kungfu movie. Tavis [laughter] no with some ideas. With some big idea. Tavis all you got to do is say, kungfu movie, keanu reeves, were there. I think that pretty much works. Thank you. Tavis the new project, the documentary from mr. Reeves, is called side by side. Glad to have you on this program. Thank you. Tavis i enjoyed this immensely. Thats our show for tonight. Until next time, keep the faith. For more information on todays show, a visit to abbas miley at pbs. Org. Tavis high, i am tavis smiley. Joining next time for our chat with Kristen Stewart and her new film, on the road. There is a saying that dr. King had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. I just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. We know that we are only halfway to completely eliminate hunger, and we have a lot of work to do. Walmart committed 2 billion to fighting hunger in the u. S. As we work together, we can stamp hunger out. And by contributions to your pbs station by viewers like you. Thank you. Pbs station by viewers like you. Thank you