nationwide is on your side. and by contributions to your pbs station by viewers like you thank you. tavis: he is the most successful director in history. it includes tv's most iconic shows. his late this program is "mike & molly" that airs on cbs. here is a scene. >> and do not under a semi someone pay to see a movie and talk to the whole thing. >> that is, how you plaster bad. -- flash your badge. >> it was a york peppermint patty. >> do you want to come in? >> it is tempting but i have an early morning. i do not want to disturb your mom or sister. >> mothers taking a poll dancing class a the senior center. >> that is interesting brit. tavis: i will get to "mike & molly" in a minute. this is a television monitor that he had our guide turn away city would have to see yourself. we do this every day shooting of their people. >> i will be sowed self- conscious. i am scared there would be a delay. and usually not in this chair. i am honored to be in this chair. tavis: you are in this town the behind the scenes guy. it is uncomfortable for you sitting? >> not at all. >> you are fine. >> should i mean this way? >> i want to make sure you are of a. >> i am fine. tavis: with a woman grace -- with "will and grace" it was the gay jokes. with "mike & molly" it is the fat jokes. >> if it is not on this show, what show? i member on the pilot of "will and grace," some execs said there are too many gay jokes. i said if not on this show, what show? "mike & molly" the molly they meet at overeaters anonymous. in life, people do those jokes. in the pilot, there are more. i think we wanted -- i think that is the natural thing to do in the private. we are in the seventh show. the fat jokes have abated. there are occasional comments partner carl who says endearingly mean things and from mali's mother -- molly's mother. they are not gratuitous. i think the beginning they were. mark roberts was aware of it. that is where you go for the jokes. we got knocked in the reviews a little bit. you love these people. you understand why we are doing it. tavis: why do we love "mike & molly" >> they are ordinary people. they are not robert redford and angelina jolie. they are not beautiful people. their average looking. -- they are average of looking for the 95% of america are not beautiful people. this is a couple that we think is germane to most of america. tavis: most of us are a little bit overweight. most of us can familiarize on some level. you are the master at this. you are the go to guy in this time when it comes to pilot season. they are trying to figure which shows they will do. if this is the guy they all go to a fit is going to be a comedy. i'm sure your desk get overloaded every year. you have a process that works given all the stuff they you have done from "cheers" to "friends." what is your process? >> when i started out, i did not have any reputation or self- esteem. once "cheers" -- i did "taxi" which was a seminal show. once "cheers" a hit i started getting a lot of private. the first thing i look for is the writing. most of the pilot that i choose do not have high concept ideas. for me it is not the idea as much as the execution of the idea. if the idea, like you take a bar and boston is not a high concept idea but it executed well as a kid show. if people are around a coffee house in greenwich village, it is not a great idea but the writing was so good. and before writing -- i look for writing. the second thing i hope will happen is and he can cast well. you have to be lucky. you have to have those people available that fit the roles of that particular time. when i did the pilot of ' it was the last pilots that hit my desk. i said i would do it on the weekends. in the process of casting those six people who were available at the end of piatt season -- pilot season, that is where luck comes them. the third thing that has to happen is that the network has to schedule you right. they can put a really good show on a certain time slot and it will get killed. when "cheers" went on the air we did not have a lot to prove. nbc had started. they put on a lot of interesting shows for. when you get a show like "will and grace" which is controversial, and the network to put as in the slot after "frazier." put this on monday night where we did not have them but to improve. once people started to see the show, they would tell their friends. those are the three things that has to happen for a show to be a success. tavis: you said you have no reputation as self-esteem when you started. you did not have a reputation but your father did. i suspect in some ways you tried to create your own legacy while you are in your father's shadow. secondly, how does one go on to have this access when one starts little to nothing? >> my father was ed burrows, a broadway legend. it goes on. he was a legacy. when i was growing up, i was his kid. that was my self-esteem. it it took me half an hour before i mentioned it and that was it. that is where i got my fulfillment. i went into his business, a stage manager on broadway. i did not quite know my father did. i did not have a sense of it. when i worked with him, he was a playwright but he directed and wrote on his feet. i saw how he treated people. that led to me as a stage a manager directing understudies in the show. then i got into directing. you know, i would go out in direct summer stock and a dinner theater in small communities. in my mind, i knew it new york was not the place for me because of his reputation. at that time, i had grown to sing that being his kid with the going to get me the potomac that i needed. i literally wrote a letter to mary tyler moore. i had known her a one of the shows i state to manage that was a disaster. she was doing this show which was a half-hour live show. those are the kind of shows i do, sitcoms. she brought me out. i started in los angeles. i had one show to do. that is 36 years ago. once i got to this town, it took about five years where people were saying that i did not realize you is your father. that was important to me in my career. my self-esteem started to blossom a little bit. i had the reputation of being a good director. i went on the show's that i worked up initially -- in the situation comedy business, you go to show that is established. you have to play by the rules of the show. all the actors know what they are doing. therefore coming you have to pay -- played by those rules. you have to do directions within the rules. the actors will respond to that. i did that for for five years. then when "cheers" hit, since i was a co creature i have the ability to put in reducing does a co creator, i have the ability to -- i realize that what i had was really valuable. that is when my self-esteem started to blossom. it really changed my life. i was much cockier. people started to hire me. this ability that was underneath that i learned a lot for osmosis from my father, this ability to know what is funny and do jokes, started to come out. i became more of a television and director f. tavis: to the point he made a ago, you may have been more cocky. who in this town isn't when they have the success you have had? it raised a serious question. when you start with little or no self-esteem, living in someone else's shadow, and trying to find your voice, how do you keep from becoming the exact opposite and becoming the guy no one wants to work with because you are as successful as you are? have you balance those two things? >> when i started out there was ability there. there was a and 8 ability. tavis: there had to be are you in not be sitting here. >> in my first show, it is a mary tyler moore's script. i said that in a sea of danish i get a bagel. it is that bad i am vote took off in shakespeare and anything i could. i tried to put money did some. they saw i could. -- i tried to put a funny bits in. they saw i could. a plan by the rules but i did try to put something that would be allowed. when i became a success, i use to my cockiness. and no one will, a copy. maybe that is the wrong word. the call me in a hundred pound gorilla. guerrilla. lb reall my job is to protect the right to. i saw the vision of the writer. it is my job to protect that division. with the networks become more powerful and influential, i am the guy i who steps up and says to the network "this will be fine, leave it alone." sometimes i will say. no. i transcends a number of areas. cockiness may be the wrong word. i do it with a smile and a velvet hammer. i do have the ability to transcend a lot of problems. tavis: how has that dance with the networks change over the years? their strategies have changed. of their future is not looking as bright. for a guy like you who they look to bring these hit show's comwsw was the dance with the networks changed? >> basically, television is an imitative of business. the creation of shows are imitative. hits, there are 12 more procedural on the air. "cheers" hit and then there are bar shows. it is an imitative business. it is very difficult to be innovative. innovation is something they do not quite know what to do with t. in the old days, when they were running nbc, there were only three networks. they could be a little more innovative. now the networks have become a really popular. they all seem to have -- develop the same kind of show for the networks. it is rare that you have a show like "modern family" that is incredibly innovative. it is my job with an innovative showed to say to the network "do not try to make it imitative, and leave us alone." "will and grace", "mike & molly", "buiig bang" -- characters yet never seen before. take a chance. it is called taking a chance. networks are reluctant. they put on shows they know will work on some level. to get innovative shows, it is very difficult. tavis: tv has changed so dramatically and that 36 years. reality television is all the rage these days. i am curious as to your thoughts about how reality television has changed your business? >> i have said this before. i do not know if i'm right about this. i think the american culture in reality shows would rather see a peer lose weight or peer fall thenor go on and island see a fictional version of that, because if the peer trips and falls and hurts himself, the person at home feels better that they didn't. the fantasy of fictional characters is not as rewarding for people. i do not know why. i think that may be why reality shows are amazingly successful now. i think a lot of it has to do with that. why think a lot has to do with schadenfreude. you have someone like you have a bad day. it is better than seeing a character have a bad day. tavis: if you are right, that would answer -- it says to me what i have been thinking about. that is why reality television has done so well and white soap operas are getting canceled. -- andwh ehy soap operas are getting canceled. >> comedy is a little different. in comedy, it is a release for people. you have to make them laugh. in bad times in good times, comedy always works. the procedure as and rohm & hoss are a little tougher. als and dramasre rul are a little tougher. they are having trouble. tavis: the other question is related to your success over the years. how you keep yourself motivated? that might seem strange. 1c had figured out how to do this, you can pick these winners out, everyone is betting on new. you compare every year -- you come third every year. can access get boring? >> i am a man who has to work. if work is no fun, i do not do it. i literally have a fun clause in my contract. i can leave. i still love what i do for th. on in "mike & molly" it is wednesday night in front of an audience. there is that the more rewarding than seeing it the jokes work. i have been on shows for 25 and 30 years that always had good writing. i am not a writer. these writers like the charles brothers to lowry and mark roberts, they give the words that make it inspiration for me to work. if you watch one of my shows, you will see me laugh. you will see me have a great time. i did 190 will increase --"will and grace's" "mike & molly" is a moving showed too. it is really funny. the characters are unlike any other characters i have worked with. they say writing is so smart. as long as i have fun, i will continue to do it. tavis: i say this to the very end. the staff did not even notice this. sit down. your fine. he said honored you are to be on the show. in the basement of my house, there is a picture of when i first came to this town. i came to this town trying to make it. there was a time frame that i was not going to make it. the only way i could kick myself alive was finding a couple of agencies to be an extra on a number of shows. i got called one day before "cheers" i sat at the bar. i made the shot. in my basement, there is a picture of me in the basement at "cheers" it is the first time meeting you. thank you. it is the highlight of my life. it is still so funny to have you on this show. >> what show was it? tavis: i cannot find the exact text oof it so. for me did not matter "cheers". >> my pleasure. tavis: james burrows, the show "mike & molly" is you should check it out. that is our show for tonight. unl next time, thank you for watching. >> did you hear that? i've got your photographs right here. >> thank you for them. these are some of my friends. >> to the lead in see you. >> i am an actor come into. -- actor, too. >> i love your show. >> i do something. here we go. how are you? do you like? that was you. finally, i got someone who appreciates talent for th >> [inaudible] >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. >> next time join me with johnny mathis and his country album. >> all i know is his name is james. he need extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference, you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance support chavis smiling ta --tavis smiley. we removed obstacles one at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions by viewers like you. thank you. viewers like you. thank you.