>> rose: welcome to the broadcast. chris smas here and so are the christmas movies. night we take a look at "me and orson welles", with director richard linklater and his co-star zac efron, claire danes and christian mckay. and we continue this evening with nascar history. four-time nascar champion-- the first ever-- jimmie johnson later joined by his trainer john sitaras. a film aboutor son as well as and nascar champion jimmie johnson coming up. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: richard linklater's new movie is called "me and orson welles," it is a coming of age story that takes place in the shadow of the great and complicated orson welles. the year is 1937 on the eve of his staging ofulius caesar at the mercury theater in new york. he's just come off of production of an all-black macbeth and four years away from citizen cain. many books and plays and films have tried to capture the man and the myth and here's a trailer for the film. >> this is the story of one week in my life. it was the week i fell in love, the week i would make my broadway debut, and the week i would meet orson welles. >> john, this kid's going to play lucious. will you work for nothing? >> orson... >> quiet, i'm negotiating. >> orson's very competitive and self-center. >> this stage is where history is being written. >> very brilliant. >> okay, listen, people, nail your towards the back wall, and that goes for the rest of you. consonants, consonants, consonants. and don't forget the vowels. >> don't criticize him, ever. >> no, sir, there are more with him. >> not mortar with him, mo with him, this is shakespeare i don't know verse. >> i know my lines. >> and i say you need "mo time." >> tell me who you are. what are you offering? >> wealth, travel, fame, i can take you to movies that have all that. >> you're cute. >> a whole show is in shambles. >> he is an arrogant selfish... >> i am orson welles and every single one of you is my vision. if you don't like the way i work here, there's the door. >> there's water breaching the deck. >> sabotage! >> this is the essential orson welles moment. >> we might have a show that closes thursday night. we might have a show people will remember for 50 years. >> orson wants to stay with me tonight. >> you want know fight for you? because i will. >> you've only known me for a week. >> sometimes you remember a week for the rest of your life. >> images of magnificence, that's what you see in every great act over's eyes. that's all that matrs in this world. i'm proud of every member of this company. got to be one of those magic nights tonight, can you feel it? it's show time. >> rose: joining me now is the director richard linklater and co-stars zac efron, claire danes and christian mcka i'm pleased to have all of them talk-to-talk about orson welles, the movie, and much more. let's start with the movie. where does this come from? >> it comes from a wonderful novel by robert kaplow, a wonderful little historical fiction set in 1937, very charming. you know, the historical aspects of it are very historical, all the names, everything that happens in the movie, a historical recreation of this moment in wells life. >> and it comes with zach's character there? >> rose: >> there was a teenager in the production. he was actually about 15 years old. in many this movie he's a senior in high school. but... >> rose: the famous cecil b. photo on stage with welles and this little kid. robert imagined what it must have been like seeing it through s eyes. >> rose: and did they come to you saying "we have this script"? >> no, it's very independent. i option it had book with my own money. no studiowanted to do it. we made this in london independently. >> rose: were you fascinated by orson welles or was it just the book that captured? >> i never thought i would be making a film that touched on welles life at all. that seemed so don'ting a task. but this story was very... i don't know, i just loved it and it shined a light on a period in his life that most people don't know much about. i knew a littleit about it but when people think of welles they start with "war of the worlds "and soon they're out to hollywood and cain and into his film career where this was young mr. wells. he's 22, already... he's... it's his first mercury theater production that he started with john houseman and him at his most confident. it's a great moment in his life. kaine. this was great production. >> rose: what did you know about him, christian, when you took this role? caine. >> quite a bit. well, i think my registration remembers as the 350 pound mountain selling sherry and wine before its time. >> rose: and being interviewed by dick calve vet. >> merv griffin. >> a lot of merv griffin. >> we kind of remember him like, that don't we? >> we don't even. we're even too young for that. >> hi wasn't a public figure in you guy's lifetime. >> we studied anymore textbooks at school. >> rose: and mainly through the early movies. >> that's truthfully how i got introduced was through "citizen kane." the film change mid-perspective. i was able t watch movies from that point on with a completely new eye because i was so aware of cinematography because i thought the movie was so beautifully shot. it was amazing. >> rose: how about you, claire? >> i learned about orson welles in college. i went to yale and in english class, in my freshman year and my professor screened "citizen kane" for us and i wrote a term paper on it. i have no idea what i wrote about. but i watched it for... yeah, fast forward and rewound that movie many times. >> rose: one of the great questions about him has been this extraordinary brilliance early. >> well, this film depicts it. he's 22, kind of reinventing the stage, he's soon to reinvent radio and a couple years later he reinvents cinema. astonishing. before his 26th birthday he's reinvented the three mediums of the day. there's no modern equivalent of that. definitely born at the right time to do that. cinema was only 45 years old as a medium and he pushes it forward a few decades. he would be do much better if he was born later to be an indy director, he would have gotten more films made because there was only the studio system at that time. but what he did young is just incredible. >> rose: and the genius was? >> the genius was... >> i think everything. a natural showman. >> a record-breaking amount of innovation in "citizen kane." a ceiling had never been shot. i mean, it's just... i was amazed when i first saw it how resonant and relevant it still is now. >> yes, absolutely. >> it feels very modern. >> it's very lucky all the collaborators he had. starting with greg toller and houseman going off with her man mang vits to write their portion of the script and then it came back to orson and he would add scenes. and it was a wonderful collaboration. his makeup was an innovation. james shirt with the sound at ark owe. and i think kane is an independent movie within the studio system. it's incredible. of course through that incredible contract he had with r.k.o., executives walked on to the lot, they just start playing baseball and, you know, just... we've just come to see your work orson, now read my contract. extraordinary. >> that infuriated him and that was the beginning of the end right there. hollywood doesn't like that attitude. >> rose: how did you hang your own perform snans what were you... >> well, i... >> rose: voice, man snore >> well, i'd never played a real life famous dead person before so i could only... >> rose: you could access because of the interviews. >> yes, i studied him a lot but avoid at all costs imitation or impression, which is death. to a... i wanted to forge him. ma a forgery. like he made a beautiful film, again totally beyond it years in the '70s and there was a matisse... he was a great forger and it was matisse and there are modiglianis in the world that el mir painted. so i thought i like this ia, that's giving him a flavor of that voice and i'm both zac and claire's characters are loosely based on real people, too. but we did that in the corkry with characters like ngor monolloyd who's become a friend. 95 years young and still working >> my kharker is be s based on real character. he's still with us. arthur anderson. >> i talked to him on the phone. >> he filled us in on great stories. >> robert did a lot of research with him. he helped him when he was writinthe novel. >> rose: the story is told through his eyes. >> it's an interesting way to tell the story, especially of welles to see him through this young man's eyes. he's only five years younger than him but he's been given this incredible opportunity, this small part inform the play, so you do see him through his point of view. >> rose: your character, claire? >> i play orson's girl friday, basically. his assistant secretary. and, yeah, she's just a kind of... she's got moxie. >> is she a kind of definer of him? >> i think everybody in this moment in this company was incredibly charged and very inspired byor son but vim and vigor and were anxious to create somethin new and... i don't know. epic. >> the rallying around his genius but it's a portrait of how you make art in a group setting. it's very collaborative. it's about the ensemble. but in this case there's this genius dictator behind it all who happens to be a brilliant artist. >> rose: talk about casting with christian first. >> well that was the... i wasn't going to proceed until i fou someone i thought could represent welles accurately. i wasn't going to do the movie. so i got lucky. i feel like the film gods handed us orson welles. >> rose: how did you find him? >> i got an e-mail from robert kaplow, the novelist. and he said "there's a one-man show here in new york at this little theater, 50-seat theater, 16 shows only." i flew in just in time to catch the last show, i believe. and it was called "rose bud, the lives of orson welles." >> totally an original title. (laughter) >> but christian played him primarily as an older welles, fat suit and noses. it's a great one-man show. >> rose: how did you come to do that? >> unemployment. i'd just had a massive success as a eunuch at the royal shakespeare company and staggeringly to me that wasn't enough of a success to continue with in the royal shakespeare company. so i thought it would be a wonderful exercise to play a real-life person. i thought... and in a one-man show, a cheapened hopefully effective form of theater. and we start... you know, they said "what about orson welles?" i said "don't be ridiculous, i'm not that fat." i said "what about winston churchill?" you're too young. "what about orson welles." "no, no. "richard burton." "orson welles." and eventually i started reading about him and fell in love with the old man. and suddenly... i'd read act actors being at the right place at the right time. i never imagined it would happen to me. and i suddenly had this diabolical and, indeed, divine luck. and like an idiot stood there with richard giving him the names of famous hollywood stars that i thought could play orson. he's not going to cast an unknown englishman. >> i'd flown across the country. that might have been a hint i was looking for you. >> rose: he gave youor names? >> it was awkward. i'd flown into see him. it was a great show but i didn't have the movie financed. it was like "nice to meet you." i couldn't say "hey, do you want to do this film?" i couldn't offer and you weren't presumptions enough to assume. but then i flew him from london to where i live and we did a screen test, hung out for a few days and started working there and that's when it began. >> rose: is his life in the end and the life he lived one you sat there with great admiration and say "this was just simply a great life" or is in the part a tragic life because there was so much talent that was demonstrated but so much talent that didn't have a apply itself over a longer period. >> it depends on your definition of "success" i should think. he was typing up the next day's schedule when he had his heart attack. there's always tomorrow. and until his dying day he sought to continue giving us his vision, his expression of human tichlt and those wine commercials which people say is very sad, you know, that such a great man was reduced to that. not at all, when he was in '30s, he was doing wine commercials on the radio and he was putting his money into the mercury theater. towards the end of his life, he was doing commercials on television and putting the money he earned into his independent films. that, to me, in my humble opinion, is a man of obstinate integrity. >> rose: who was close to him that's alive today? >> well... >> actually, we've been doing quite a bit of press for the movie and it seems like every day there's somebody who has an orson welles story. i was in an elevator with him, whatever. it's... >> saw him in a hotel. >> who did we meet last night? >> oh, my gosh! >> i didn't meet her. i missed out. but, yeah, orson's daughter was at the premier last night. >> she came. she was so sweet. she said she really, really enjoyed the film. that was great to here. >> christopher welles has written the most beautiful book about her father "in my father's shadow." a tragic story. >> really the first one that close to him to write a book about him. there's been a code of silence in the 24 years he's been gone. >> rose: why? >> i'm not sure. i think people learn not to say a lot about him. he was sort of the master of his own myth. he didn't write an autobiography. >> rose: >> and when he did write a kind of autobiography i think it was in paris "vogue", he made most of it up. >> rose: (laughs) >> an unreliable narrator. >> rose: did bogdanovich write about him? >> quite a bit. one of the best books i think is is his interviews. >> rose: peter's interviews called this is orson welles. >>. >> rose: what do you get out of that? >> there are tap. >> jonathan rosenbaum edits it. bogdanovich gave it. >> rose:/'d love to hear that. what did you come away with from that? >> well, all parts of the world, talking on such a massive range of subjects. the rosenbaum chronology that you mentioned, what's that like as a catalog of work? >> a third of the book is what he did every month of his adult life and it's really impressive. i see welles life as a huge triumph. us americans, we're very greedy for more productivity, more... why didn't he make 30 films like john houston or billy wilder, those studio guys he was never meant to fit into a studio. i think we're lucky he was able to make the masterpieces he did do and, you know, we should be grateful for that. >> rose: the assistant that was there, he was doomed to be... >> he never could f into at. he's too big. you have to subly mate your ego and your genius to fit into that and i don't think he was able to do that. >> rose: what's yourharacter's relationship to him? >> he... >> rose: we saw a little bit of the introduction. >> he's walking down the street and gets picked on the street from orson to have a small role and me starts playing the ukulele, i guess, and lucious in the show. and i thought that was a pretty interesting story for this character because that's kind of how i got started. i got really lucky early on. >> rose: what happened to you? >> a small audition, a very small part. >> rose: this was high school? >> no, this was... i think i was like 12 or 13 at the time. not quite high school. >> like regional theater? >> yeah, yeah, it was community theater at a conservatory for the arts in... >> rose: but you knew you wanted to be an actor by then? >> no, no. i'm still debating. (laughter) >> rose: zac is a natural. natural. >> what's fascinating for me about this movie is that i could really relate to the character. and how when he enters this world of the theater, when he is talking with orson and... there's a sense of... i don't know, it's like this community effort that's going on when you're putting together a play, when you're putting together a show. and it's intensely gratifying and scary at times. but it's... it's new and exciting and you're surrounded with people that are so focused, dedicated and talented ultimately. so that's what happens to richard in the movie is he gets shown this... revealed this other world in which orson kind of conducting and after that, showing up at school the nt day is a bit boring. kind of like a cage. >> rose: is there any tricks or understandings that you need for writing a play within a movie in the sameay you might approach a movie within a movie? >> that was a huge challenge to stage... stage the shakespeare production, to recreate that within the movie. but it's sort of the story. it all leads up to that. the audience needs to be invested in the success of the production because you've invested in these characters. it was a triumphant production. it's still spoken of as the most influential shakespeare production in u.s. history. so everyone was on board for that. the bar was really high. and it was fun to recreate that, what wells did with all the lighting and the staging. it was just a bare stage with a red brick wall that they painted red. he didn't have any money but you see the magician at work. what he did with lighting, with music, it's brilliant. >> don: in your own sort of career evolution-- which is a terrible word to use with you-- what does this do? is this stepping out for you in any way? >> yeah, well i'd like to think so. at this particular stage and coming off the back of musicals and things, i felt incredibly gifted to be thought of for this role. toch an opportunity to work with rick and claire and christian. and, yeah, i think it was a bit of a risk, you know? i'm just flattered that they went with me. >> rose: you didn't think it was a risk, did you? >> no, no, i'm a selfish director. i needed the best actor i could get for that role. >> rose: what's the common denominator to the movies you make? other than they're independent, other than you create them? >> some are in and out of the studio system. i'll take studio financing when i can get it. you know, i don't really know. for me personally they're just the next movie i was kind of obsessed with and compelled to make. i think i make them the same way. we do a lot of rehearsal, very communal, i think. maybe it's the tone with the actors. realism. >> close to the mark. >> this is another one, even though it's orson welles it's kind of so much about youthful ambition and what ice ahead of them. that's an interesting period. >> beautiful phrase, valentine the future. >> rose: valentine to the future? >> uh-huh. >> rose: you use that for this? >> well, i often think valentines to actors, to the theater. like a love letter to the past and, you know, to what we do, i think, in and film how brave actors are. >> rose: >> it's a wonderful world. >> the bravery of actors, you see how they're putting themselves out there and it's risky, it's scary. >> is always humiliating. (laughter) it never isn't. >> rose: always humiliateing? do you think so? >> i do. walking across the room is plenty embarrassing. it's just... it's all worthwhile it's revealing. >> it's definitely scary. >> that's what makes it so good, though. >> that's what welles did, he put himself on the brink of failure just to get the magic. this film kind of depicts him pulling this loose elements together kind of at the last anybody. they have a disastrous preview and then, damn it, for opening night it's triumphant and it's one what they do at that last minute. >> that's just the way it is in theater. >> but you see how high the stakes are. how vulnerable that genius is or the expression. >> it's a precarious balance right in there. he walked it. >> rose: you said to her "do you really believe it's humiliating?" meaning, what? >> it might be the difference between the english-speaking people, the words. i think it's... there's something about vulnerability with an actor. >> well, i'm being a little facetious. i'm kind of joking but kind of not. (laughter) >> rose: do you think vulnerability is necessary? >> yes, i think so. we're vulnerable now, talking. and there's something watchable about that quality. it's like a friend of mine said to me... we were in a pub in england. he said "you can stand on this table now." he'd had a few drinks. he said "you could stand up on this table now and do your one man show and people would listen because you're vulnerable and you have a story to tell." and i thought well, that's a lovely definition of acting. >> rose: both of those things are true, though. but humiliating, yes. >> rose: humiliation could be fear and vulnerability. fear of humiliation makes you vulnerable. >> fear of failure. >> for me i think it's necessary to fall off >> rose: to... >> to fall off the tightrope occasionally and learn. >> rose: you've all done that? >> all the time. >> i depend on it. >> rose: you depend on it? >> you risk failure daily. >> you learn from it. luckily we get more takes in the film industry but you're always trying to throw everything at the wall. >> i dance a little bit and i did a solo a few years ago and the choreographer gave me a note after rehearsal and said "i'm admiring you but i'm not relating to you. so it doesn't really work." yeah, no, it was... it was a great note. >> rose: let me take a look. i want to see some clips from this movie. begin with this one. roll tape. >> hey, no kids in this scene. it's a vicious mob. >> i thought you were out swrr somewhere learning your lines. >> oh, i know my lines. >> go to the gate, somebody knocks. >> sir, it is your brother cassius. >> is he alone? >> no, sir, there are more with him. >> not "more with him" "mo request w him" the pleural. do you think you can change the words of the world's greatest play wright. go home and learn your lines. >> i know my lines. >> and i say you need "mo time." (laughter) remember, junior, this tiny scene serves to humanize the entire historical pageant of the play. >> rose: so tell me about working with this guy. >> i think rick's style is pretty antithet cal to orson. >> he thinks all of the same thoughts orson did. he's just a little bit better at communicating them. (laughter) >> rose: how is he sflent >> a little gentler. >> rose: different... better or different? but how is he? >> i think perhaps the arrogance, there's no arrogance in rick. he's so... >> well, but there's a... his vision is very clear and he's able to articulate that in a very clear way. but, yeah, he's also... pretty easy going. >> welles was a performer, too, that guy was a born showman. he's got that huge personality. so he couldn't really just turn that off to direct you know? you had to... that was him. >> i've said this before but i kind of think of rick as a kind of little league baseball coach. (laughter) he would even clap, "come on, guys, you can do it!" (laughter) >> i was freezing cold. i was freezing cold. we did those exterior shots in new york city, it was freezing outside. you can see our breath, o noses will bright red. >> it was like the russian front. >> and rick would say "come on, team, let's do this." (laughter) >> that's the athletic background. i'm sorry. >> it translates well. it works. (laughter) >> believe me, it works very well. we're out there and it's like a coach. >> rose: let's look at root scene. >> okay, so tell me who you are. >> who i am? >> yeah. and don't tell me about your high school sweetheart or your parents. tell me who you are. what do you want? >> it's a hard question. >> well, what do you love? >> um...... plays. movies. songs. lyrics. um, novels, radio. i don't know. a lot of different things. >> see, that's it. there's so much more to life than just being an actor. i keep wondering what you're doing mincing around the stage. >> "mincing"? >> come on, you know what i mean. all that ego up there. >> it's exciting! we might have a show that closes thursday night or we might have a show that people will remember for 50 years. probably neither one of those, but you never know. that's what's so exciting. >> you're cute. >> rose: when you've had the experience you have had on stage with the royal academy and all of that, how does it translate for you in terms of training when you start making movies? >> well, i don't think you ever stop learning, but richard had to teach me how to, you know... a theatrical animal, how to act on film. >> rose: did he really. >> yes, absolutely. i maintain that, because i was playing a theatrical larger-than-life person, but to do that... i don't want to say within the confines of film, because i don't immediate that at all. but knowing, you know, where the camera is, knowing that you have to act within a certain parameter, perhaps, you know, i had to learn that. and there was this wonderful... i was there, you know, in character with the mercury company and occasionally he'd look at me and go... (clears throat.) and by that i'd go, right. and then about three weeks in, he turned to me and went (clears throat) and i went i got subtle. (laughter) and these two guys go "at last!" (laughter) but of course they helped me tremendously with their wealth of experience. i felt very looked after. >> he's a quick study. very quick study. >> rose: there was a point where there where welles said you have to nail it to the back wall. are you conscious of that. >> andon't forget the vowels. >> rose: theater actors are conscious of that? nail it to the back wall? >> you've seen theatrical performances on film and they don't quite strike real. they belong to a different genre and while in the theater they're electric because they're live, you know, on film they suddenly look just a little false. and so, you know, obviously i didn't want to appear... but you see richard never looked at my screen test. i did. and it was entirely theatrical. >> rose: you did not look at screen tests? >> well, i was there, i was shooting the screen test but i had found my orson, i didn't need to look at it. i knew he would get there. >> rose: what was it that sold you? >> the spirit. not just the lucky d.n.a. resemblance. >> rose: exactly. i was going to say. >> that's just the by againing. what works with christian's performance where he gets this transformation into welles is he brings himself to it. christian is a big personality. he's a kid who's a world-class concert pianist. i don't want to embarrass him, but he was a kid from a very young age told he was a genius. >> rose: like a young orson welles, wasn't he? >> yes, he really is. but in his realm of musicianship he really is world class and when he came to acting, you know he still... he brought that with him. great storyteller, great personality. so it was really about christian making it about him to as large a degree as possible. >> rose: making it about... >> making orson, his performance really about christian. >> that's all you've got, he's gone. and we're left with this myth. and so me as a character actor trying to embody that, you know, and do it truthfully and hopefully reliably, that was the trick. i could only reference myself at that age. and unfortunately, you know, i was that arrogant and lost at 22. i was playing the third rachmaninoff concerto and i was shouting at the conductor and telling telling the symbol player to be louder. >> rose: you must have been awful? >> well, yes. >> rose: you both have found success very early in your life. did you wish you had certain experiences you didn't have? >> i think this is the way it was supposed to happen. it's the only way i'd want it to happen. i'm still learning. it's still... still growing and trying new things and having great opportunities, to be honest. i've been very lucky. >> rose: this is the best thing you can do is be in this kind of production where you get working with great actors and have a chance to... >> it is. it was, yeah. thank you, thank you, rick. that was pretty big gift for him to give me. >> no gift, i keep coming back to that. >> rose: claire, did yale add anything to your repertoire? >> yeah, it did. i mean, i'd been working from the age of 12 pretty consistently and i'm really gl for that. and i... i had the privilege of working with really inspired, brilliant people, i've traveled, i've introduced new cultures. so all of that was really edifying and... but i think i was a little lonely. i didn't go to a typical school. i was tutored on set and occasionally i'd have one other classmate, you know, another kid actor who also needed to be tutored. but i think i really needed to socialize. there were parts of myself that were really developed and even overdeveloped and parts that were pretty weak. and so i just... i mean, i learned a lot in school. i... i learned how to read and write and think critically and all that. but i think even more importantly, i learned how to hang out. >> it's important. without the life experience... >> how to waste time. >> rose: meaning becoming more of like a real person than... >> yeah, i... well, absolutely. i mean, the last time i was in school was in junior high, which is miserable for girls and so i still had some of those fears. i assumed that there was going to be some kind of mean girl who was going to pick on me for the rest of my lie. and then i discovered when i went to college that that's really time-specific and that people grow up and become much more benevolent and kind. so, yeah, it was great. and also i didn't know if i was acting out of habit at that point or real passion and the latter proved to be true but i needed to know that. i needed to choose it as a grown-up so i was able to do that. >> rose: thank you all for coming. >> thank you. >> great being here. >> rose: good to see you. congratulations. before we continue this evening with my interview several weeks ago with jimmie johnson, the great nascar champion, we look ahead to tomorrow night, my guest will be the prime minister of turkey. we'll talk about the role of turkey in the world today. jimmie johnson is here. he made nascar history at homestead miami speedway. he won a record-breaking fourth consecutive sprint cup championship series. right behind him were two familiar faces, mark mart and jeff gordon. all three compete under the guidance of hick hendrick who has steadily assembled a nascar dynasty. to commemorate johnson's victory, the empire state building was lit in blue, white, and yellow lights to reflect his team's colors. i'm pleased to have jimmy johnson back at this table. welcome to you. >> thank you, great to be here. >> rose: great to see you and congratulations. >> awesome year for us, of course. life is good. >> rose: was it harder this year than normal or does it get easer. >> >> i don't want to say it was easier because it wasn't. the competition and what we have to do week in and week out is so difficult and that part is more difficult than years past. but the fact that we've been there befo and understand the pressure, understand the areas to focus and we almost have a road map because we won the first one. so the second one, we knew the areas to focus and the third and the fourth. so on that front we made better decisions, enjoyed it a little more, helped the time go by quicker. so there were aspects that were easier but the competition side was as tough as it's ever been. >> rose: what do you worry about the most? a breakdown in the car or what? >> part of that philosophy leads know this answer, and this is over time i've realized that i can only focus on what i can control. and i really try to block out the other areas from mechanical issues, things that take place out of the track out of my control and cars spinning out and tire failures, whatever it may be. so i'm not spotless with that and i still do think about a lot of things but not as many and really focus o the important things. >> rose: what can you control? >> my technique, what i do in the car. how i communicate with the race team. and the adjustment wes need to make the car better. >> rose: you said "my technique what's your technique? >> well, you know, it looks simple as times, what we do, and some people simplify it and say we just drive in a circle but in those corners around the track the car is in a constant slide. and we as drivers over 200 miles an hour. there's a breaking zone on corner entry, how you use the breaks, affect the balance of the car, how it drives, the arc and line that you run through the corner is very important. as the car's handling fades or improves, whatever it goes through, you have to adjust accordingly to continue to run the fastest lap time that you can. so there's a a lot of visual references, hand/eye coordination, acceleration, braking, turning, a lot of different thing there is to play with. >> rose: where does athletic ability come into it? hand/eye is a for sure. >> a large portion of it is cardio-based. our events, the shortest race is three and a half hours. our longest event is a 600 mile race about five and a half hours. 38 races in 41 weeks. the endurance side is important. but from a strength side it's also important if power steering fails through impact and crashes you know, the more muscle mass you have the stronger you're going to be. the easier you will recover and hopefully won't be injured so all those things play into it. >> rose: we know what, say, a baseball player, football player basketball player would do to improve their skills. how do you improve their skills. >> a large part of it boils down to seat time. >> rose: in the seat? >> in the seat driveing the car. a lot like batting practice, pitching practice. >> rose: like a round of sghofl >> exactly. all part of it. >> rose: are there things you could do today that you couldn't do three years ago? >> it's actually kind of gone the other way. >> rose: things you can't do? >> because of nascar trying to keep the expense down... >> rose: right, we talked about that. >> testing's been outlawed. the rules have become more and more strict. the cars are more equal. so things are taken away to keep competition. >> rose: now are you in favor of that or not? >> initially no. but as time has gone on without a lot of success with these confined rules, the cars are more difficult to drive, there's less to adjust on. it's for the driver's hands and i've won my championships under this format. >> rose: now is mark martin's career suggesting you can do this a long time? he's about 20 years older than you are. >> yeah, he's 50 and... >> and you're 34. >> so i think it speaks to driver's variety of levels and comes back to the fitness side you're speaking of. if you take care of your body you can drive a car and race competitively at 50 years old and the mind keeps getting stronger and smarter and experience means so much that if your body... your chassis is there to do it, you can do it. >> rose: how much difference is there between cars? >> any more, very little. the rules are so tight. we now have an arrow package on the cars where the bodies are all the same so that there's no favorites or technology advances that a certain manufacturer can provide. i mean, it also keeps the expenses down. the which he issy, the specs on the chassis itself are very tightly regulated. all of this is to keep expense down and to keep new teams coming in the sport. >> rose: when you look ahead, having set this new record, what are the new goals? >>ive honestly blown through every goal i've set. >> rose: i know! >> i look at what some of the greats like earnhardt and pet industry done with the championships and think, yeah, absolutely, i want to do that. is it a possibility? i have no idea but i know i have a lot of years ahead of myself and i'm ready to try. >> rose: so other racing, formula 1 or indy type cars have some appeal or none? >> there's a lot of appeal but i don't know how realistic that is. i have a long term contract with hendrick motor sports through 2015, formula 1 there's only 16 seats and thousands and thousands of drivers trying to make it. plus the time it would take to learn an open-wheeled vehicle, i've spent my entire life learning how to drive a stock car. it's one thing to get close, to get within a half a second. but those final few hundreds or thousands of seconds on a given lap, that's where the champions are born and it takes years to find that stuff. shup the seconds that make a difference in winning or losing. >> hundredths of a second. >> rose: talk to us about the art of passing. >> there's a few things to take into play. first and foremost i follow the person in front of me and look at where my car,my technique, is better than theirs and where they're having troubles and look for that opportunity. as you get there, if you don't really have an opportunity that's easy to take, you can apply a lot of pressure to someone. we have mirrors in the cars and it's ahasing when you really get close to someone how they can become nervous and make a mistake. if they don't make a mistake there, where i position my car can affect the handlingover their car so i'll try to get really close to the bumper and it makes the back end want to slide out. from there, you just try to find a way by and put yourself the right position. >> rose: tell me about the different driving styles that you're up against every weekend. >> yeah, there are... >> rose: i mean, tony stewart has a certain drive style. >> he does. >> rose: dale had a certain driving style. the late dale earnhardt, right? >> yeah, i didn't have a chance to race against dale, sr. but there are guys that are extremely aggressive and certain tracks fit that aggressive style. there are other tracks that where you need to be very patient. other guys excel in those tracks. to be a champion, i think you have to understand that and have a technique that you can adjust and take to a variety of tracks and stewart is one of the best at it. >> rose: at, what, adjusting? >> yes, adjusting. first he came from indy cars and then won a championship there and won on stock cars. he can win on a short track, superspeedway, down force track. he can master them all. >>. >> rose: and what you learned from montoya who came from formula 1. >> i am blown away by his ability to adapt. he's never raced a car with a body on it. everything he's raced has been open wheel. it takes a long time to switch and understand those final... >> rose: but he did it and he's a competitor. >> done an awesome job! and with a team thas been in a tough situation financially, they've had a merger but it just shows that he's got a ton of talent. >> rose: is the center of nascar still in north carolina. >> it is, that's the hub for our sport. >> rose: because it began there? >> what's odd is it really began in daytona. and the nascar headquarters are in daytona. but i think the top teams back in the '50s were all in north carolina so it drew in the tradesmen of the sport, drivers and it just started building from there. >> rose: would you like to have a... at some point in your career play a role at that hick hendrix plays, to be an owner? >> i wouldn't mind under the hendricks umbrella to be a part of what he has but i don want to race against him. >> rose: why? what is it he has? >> 25 years of experience. and what he has built from the property, the buildings, the infrastructure, the people, the experience it's tough. i don't want to race against him. >> rose: what's the difference in the tracks today other than an extraordinary sense of... for the fans to be able to sit and observe the sport from a different kind of place but how is the track in terms of length, surface, pro next >> protection, we now have soft walls which have done amazing things. i'm so happy to see that. we're slowly having every wall around the racetrack covered with an outside wall. the inside walls are now being addressed. the topography of the race tracks, even though a lot of them may look the same, the way the corners are designed, the radius, the transitions from the straightaways into the turns, they're all different and have their own personalities. and the surface itself, the different aggregates they use in different parts of the country make for a different surface. and that affects the tire ware. >> rose: what is it about you, though? you come on strong in the last stages of the series, correct? >> we have. that's been our strong suit. >> rose: what is that about? >> we try just as hard all year long. >> rose: (laughs) you're not holding back. >> no, i think some tracks in the summer are tough on us. we've improved on a lot of those racetracks but we get into this final stretch and it works well. i respond well to pressure and so does my team and for the last four seasons it hasn't raveled us. >> rose: who's in a team? >> we have over 500 people, 500 employees at hendrick motor sports. the assembly shop that puts together the car i drive, the 48 car and jeff gordon's 24 car has over 90 employees. my specific 48 team has 15 members that travel each race and seven that go over the wall to perform the pit stops. so the team is far and wide. we have a four car operation with mark martin and dale earnhardt, jr., as well. >> rose: as far as you're concerned, who's the greest driver ever to drive? >> i can't say i've really thought about it. i look at the history books and who's won the most championships. so i look at petty and earnhardt on that one. iern so certainly hope to catch them. >> rose: (laughs) how long will it take you? >> i would love to do in the seven years. seven years consecutively which would be, i guess, 14 years in the sport. >> rose: so you've got three more years. >> yeah. >> rose: that's doable. but were they different drivers? >> i wasn't around to race against either one of them. what what they dealt with in their era is different than what i'm doog with now. >> rose: let me taken a easy one for you. how do you drive differently than jeff? >> than jeff? the car hasn't changed a lot since jeff has started and i give him credit to adjusting to so many things that have changed but jeff's background, he likes a race car that he can man handle and force a turn with the steering wheel. i spent a lot of time with the dirt and the front tires didn't do a lot in the vehicle i drove. so i need to door respond with my right foot. so my car is a slide leading with the back of the car or jeff's car leading with the back of the car is much more comfortable with him. >> rose: someone told me you're playing golf now. >> i'm trying. that's a great way to frustrate yourself. >> rose: (laughs) harder than learning to drive? >> o man, i can't believe how aggravating that sport can be but it's so much fun. for me it's a great way... >> rose: great courses where you live. >> great courses, great people involved in the sport. i enjoy it. >> rose: physical fitness represents a new dimension to racing it seems to me. >> rose: sure. >> how so? >> well, i think as time goes on and we make these race cars stronger and stronger it falls back on the driver's lap. how much strength you have, how far can you push the car? now the cars are much stronger than the drivers. >> rose: back in a moment and we'll talk to the man in charge of fitness for jimmie johnson, stay with us. joining jimmy johnson and she john sitaras, he's founder and c.e.o. of sitaras fitness. among many of his clients is jimmie johnson. i also work out with him. he has a studio across the street. but he and i have had long conversations about what he does with jimmie and jimmie, when i read and know what his plans are understands that fitness in most sports-- look at golf and how much tiger work out-- look at the way baseball players are in much better shape today, obviously football players, fitness has bome essential of being an athlete. talk about in the terms of driving a car >> well, in the car there's certainly... you do build strength by doing the job. with the reputation we have and how many races we have you need to do more than that. i think over time if you want to be in the sport and you want to succeed and be around for a while you need to focus. >> rose: if you want to win four championships, you better have endurance. how did you two meet? >> through one of his friends, actually. a couple years ago brought him in as a guest and i didn't really follow the sport. >> rose: didn't know a lot about nascar? >> no, i'm in love with fitness so i pretty much can design any program, you just tell me what you want to do and i'll plot away and find out your endurance but particularly i want to know what are your goals so i can actually plot the course. when he came in, he came in interpret n pretty good shape and so... yeah, and he was confident, but he actually very, very humble. i would do assessments with him and i remember his friend said no, no assessments, he's in good shape, put him through a workout. i was like nope, i have to do assessments and see where he was. he was pretty opennd it was well rounded, very fit, i would say. but tough, i would do assessments that were a little bit hard and i was like, okay, we have to stop here and he's like "come on, let's go." >> rose: you two e-mail each other all day. >> text. >> being on the road like i am, i'm in new york, going to be assessed and figure out workout plans and what we're going do but so much of it is done from afar so he'll send me an e-mail what the plan is, i'll print it out, fill out the sheet and fax it back to his office. >> rose: how many repetitions you do? >> the exact workout of what i need do and he updates me on my run schedule that i have to do. >> do your fellow drivers know how much work you have to do? >> over the last year my appearance has changed so much... as john mentioned, i've always done something but my appearance has changed so much that people are like what is john doing?" (laughter) >> rose: what is he doing? keeping you on the a regimen. >> there are a lot of aspects to it that i didn't take seriously and the nutrition side, rest and sleep and proteins and the different aspects a that i just didn't realize. >> rose: have you given up certain kinds of foods, too? >> i live in southern california so avocados are a huge treat for me and i had to cut those thing ways back if not completely out. so a lot of adjustments have been made. >> rose: what kind of routine do you have him on? >> predominantly a lot of endurance. he does do strength training, i don't want to take that away from him. he's doing chest dip which is he's too hum to believe say but he's doing chest dips with a 45 pound plate strapped between his legs and he's doing several sets and he can rip out and does his body weight at the very end. so we take him past this threshold and then we pass enendurance, threshold. i want him to get stronger and actually the recovery, it's my goal to get him the recovery so fast that monday would seem like the hard day for him. and being the race would be the easy day for him. if he can run ten miles, it's easy. >> it is. and the easiest thing i do during the week is to race. monday is tip typically a tough day. i'm a little dehydrated and monday and tuesday are heavy days with the weights and depending on the run schedule he has, some weeks it could be 20 miles. >> he has a two-hour workout and he has many repetitions and sets of abdominals from all different angles and internal obliques, expersonal obliques so you have a pretty mu... it's weaved in so it's not one set he has maybe from eight sets to ten sets for hundreds of reputations. so we don't really rest between ts, you would have to jump rope in between. pretty much training like a boxer so his heart rate hits over 120 to 150 and comes back down a little bit and help the boom, we're at it again the next set. soy know h exact threshold. but mine you it evolves, it gets harder and harder as the weeks go on so it's not the same program and he just checks it off. and sometimes he's ahead of schedule and he's like "okay, what's next how do we go past here?" so i'd say he's actually a smart student i call everyone my students by nature. but he's smart. besides doing the work he knows ahead of time what he has to do. when he's finished he wants a specific area to get stronger. he would ask "how do i get past this peak?" well, you're doing well as is. i like to get past this, i like to get better, how do i get? is there any other way. well, technically the's two other ways and he would want to plug away, have a chart and do it. i've never seen such discipline. >> rose: discipline is k. >> he's talented. show time new exercise, so he has good hand/eye coordination, he can do it, but the discipline, the dedication and when it's done, it's done. if i say okay, we have a few miles per week left for a run, he'd like okay, i'm busy but i'll find a way within my schedule to do it. so i'll give him... he has great structure. discipline, structure, i'm focused. >> rose: now other drivers are coming to you saying "how are you doing? ?" >> well, i've been trying to keep this a secret. >> rose: i screwed you, haven't? (laughs) >> if you look through the garage area, virtually everyone is on a program of sorts. he's kept my interest because he has great structure as well and in our world and dealing with numbers and structure and sdeing growth and measuring things, that's the way he goes about his fitness, as you know, it's really kept my interest. >> rose: congratulations again. >> thank you so ch. >> rose: this is a great achievement as everybody in racing knows. >> pleasure to be on the show and thank you very much. >> rose: onward and up ward. >> i'm not sure where else we can go but we'll try to go there. >> rose: thank you. >> congratulationsingss,immie. >> rose: you were there. >> i was there. >> i'm over there and he's handing me a towel and i'm like... wow. >> so he made this former body build intera nascar fan. >> depends on how you look at it it. wrong place, wrong time. right place, right time. so he was just there on the stage and was soaked in the process. >> i knew i was going to get it. >> rose: again, thank you, jimmie. thank you, john. thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org