60 minutes ii r0 file. here is an excerpt from those conversations. >> how bad was the alcohol and all the stuff. >> the alcohol was awful. i was a terrible alcoholic. -- used to ask how much drugs i did. i said only do drugs so i can drink more, ha, ha, ha. i was doing the coke so i could drink more. i mean i don't know any other reason. i was just-- i would drink, i started drinking in the morning. i would drink all day long. >> rose: by 1969 it was the perfect time for a hopper comeback. >> we had gone through its 60s and we never heard any rock music in movies. we had never seen hippies, really. we had never seen anybody smoke marijuana without going out and killing a bunch of nurses. we had gone through the whole 60s and hollywood hadn't addressed it at all. through the whole '60s. you know, it just takes somebody without wants to show the time that he lives in. >> rose: somebody who knows the world around them. >> that is what i wanted to show-and-tell which is what i tried to do. >> rose: did you blow it after easy rider? >> yeah, i probably did. >> i'm going to now make the movie that i wanted to make as my first movie which is called the last movie. >> rose: amountly titled, the last movie was hopper's avant-garde taste on both the american, western and the movie industry. it's few previews were so poorly received that universal studios refused to release the film. the biggest mistake of your life was making the last movie. >> making the last movie and moving to taos, new next co. >> rose: and getting out of the mainstream. >> and to the being here to protect myself or defend myself against anybody that wanted to say whatever they wanted to say. i couldn't get financing. i couldn't get in an office. i couldn't get in to see anybody. >> rose: would they take your phone call. >> they wouldn't take anything, man. >> rose: his marriage to socialite brook hayward collapsed. hopper then married singer michelle philips of the mamas and papa. that union lasted 8 days. hopper said the first seven were pretty good. philips suggested hopper consider suicide. finally he was captured running naked and hysterical in a south american jungle. he was briefly institutionalized. >> so i call a girlfriend from taos, new mexico to pick me up and tell her when i get back to taos that will i will kill myself. because i obviously can't act, make a gesture, i can't do anything. so she freaks out and get piece on a plane and get piece back to los angeles to see my doctor. and that was the beginning of my sobriety. >> rose: do you assess this career -- >> as a failure. i mean i think-- i would, you know. i mean there are moments that i have had some real brilliance, you know. i think there were moments. and sometimes in a career, moments are enough. but i never felt i played the great part. i never felt that i have directed the great movie. and i can't say that it's anybody's fault but my own. >> rose: dennis hopper, dead at age 74. >> good evening from los angeles. i am tavis smiley. tonight, we talk to tom burrell. he found one of the first black- owned advertising firms in the country and literally change the face of american television. his powerful new book challenges the myth of black inferiority. he discusses the notion of a post-racial america while examining longstanding racial we are looking forward to building strong communities and relationships, because with your help, the best is coming. >> nationwide insurance probably supports tavis smiley. working to improve financial empowerment that comes with it billion. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> tom burrell is an advertising, marketing, and communications pioneer who founded one of the first black- owned advertising firms in the country. he is now chairman emeritus of perella corp., which has finally given him time to write his first book. it is called "brainwashed." it was published by smiley books, but i am pleased to have on this program a pioneer in this country. i am glad to have you here, because this book is here with things the challenge folks to reexamine assumptions they hold and expand their inventory of ideas. i think this book does that. it helps we are willing to expend our ideas, and that is why i wanted you on the program. let me start with why this is the central issue you tackle. the question is, why do black people live behind everybody else it seems in every area of american life? that is the central question of the book? >> that is the central question of the books. tavis: why? >> i have been watching how things develop in this country since its founding, and i saw it was the beginning of what happened in this nation, the need to reconcile slavery and democracy that really basically set us up, said of the nation. we were sold the myth of black inferiority as a means to justify this irreconcilable contradiction. slavery was not the issue as much as the justification, because that is for the brain washing began. we had to justify it, so we found out the culprit was right there with me, in my business, in my profession, marketing communications, and that is what basically set this whole thing up. we have been bombarded with negative perceptions ever since, the idea that we are less then, not as good. black inferiority, white supremacy is the thing. >> a lot of people are getting ready to change the channel because they are thinking we're about to engage in a half-hour conversation about slavery and that we negro's need to get over it. tell me why the conversation is deeper than that. it has been 400 years. >> there were a slave narratives written into 1943. it is fresh. it is not ancient history. there are intergenerational fichus passed down just like -- into generational issues passed down just legg grandma's recipe. it has been passed down. we have a chapter in the book dealing with family relationships, and i get the question all the time. why is it the the black man cannot be a responsible father? i said, we really need to deal with that issue. we need to call black men to task, but we also need to understand just a few generations ago, it was illegal for a black man to be a father. i am not talking about in history. i am talking about a few generations ago, it was illegal for our forefathers to be fathers. we had no control over our family structure, and we did go to sleep one night, and the next morning our family could be sold off to all sorts of places. we do not need to get over it. we need to work our way through it. >> when you say brainwash, what are you talking about? black folks being brainwashed? white folks being brainwashed? all of us? >> black people were brainwashed to buy into the concept of black inferiority. white people were brainwashed to buy into the concept of white supremacy, and we all bought it. we all got it, and that is what we are dealing with today, and that is to your question, why we remain at the top of almost every that list. you want to talk about educational achievement, dropout rates, out of wedlock childbirth, teen pregnancies, hiv aids. there is no reason why we should continue to be at the top of that list, and that is why i wrote the book. >> since you have made this point now that black people seem to be at the top of all of those lists and there was a narrative constructive, and we were brainwashed by it. there was also a narrative constructed against jews. i know you have heard this question a thousand times. i want to hear your answer on national television. why is it black folks seem to still fit in every negative category? >> when we came into this country, we were stripped of everything. we were stripped of our culture. we were stripped of our religion. we were stripped of our relationships with each other, family structure. we lost track of who we were, where we came from, what our name was, where our home was. we had nothing. we had no religion. we had no language. contrast that with coming here -- jews coming year. they had a central religion. and all the permutations, they kept their families together. they kept their religion, their customs, their language, and that makes the difference. the whole idea is that jews never had to be systematically sold this bill of goods in order to justify slavery within democracy. we did. tavis: we should be clear not to diminish tragedies here. >> we are not trying to compare tragedies. we are trying to get some kind of frame of reference. we are talking about 400 years of this. tavis: you mentioned the media, and i mentioned you are an icon. if you have not heard of it, you do not know anything about advertising. you've coined a phrase, and everything in advertising has come to " you about it, that black people are not dark skin and white people -- dark s kinned white people, so people had to wrestle with you about what that meant, and you did a lot of teaching over the years. what did you mean about that? >> what i meant is black people came to this country and away totally unlike any other group of people. against their will and into servitude and enslavement. that is unique, and we came into a thing called democracy. that is unique at the time, so that shape how we deal with life. that shape how we -- i originally came up with that as it relates to how we purchase products, why we buy the things we do, why we by the way we do. we basically spend an inordinate as amount of money on stuff. we are constantly buying things. we are at the top of that list in terms of how we spend our money on basically items that depreciate instead of upper shi'a. look at it this way. we basically it -- instead of appreciate. look at it this way. we basically lost all status. how do we regain our status? buying stuff, and we are buying our way down to the bottom of this other list, because we are not saving, investing, pooling resources. we are giving all our money away, and we are conditioned to do that and to be applauded for doing that. the more bling, of the more prestige. >> we agree that too many of us buy stuff we do not need with money we do not have to impress folks we do not even light. i digress on that. -- we do not even light. i digress on that. you make the case very clear in the book that it is through marketing primarily that this brainwashing has taken hold, so those who do not want to deal with the 400-year narrative about brainwashing, let's make it more contemporary. talk to me about how the media, how advertising has led to this brainwashing. >> it is now on automatic. out of the movies that were nominated for the academy award, i bet you can go through half of them and find a whole slew of queues, visual and verbal cues that reenforce the idea of black inferiority, white supremacy. do you want to take "the blindside", here we have a situation where the black family throws the kid away. the black coach and his wife let him sleep on the couch a couple days common and in comes this wonderful -- a couple days, and in comes this wonderful white family who embraces this big, oafish kid who does not know anything, this gentle giant, takes him in. he is barely literate, and he is barely able to function. then we see him go into his neighborhood with this woman who is his new mother, and it is a menacing place, and she is going to get out of the car, and he grabs her. do not get out. these are dangerous people. then you see the most menacing group of black gaius you can imagine -- black guys you can imagine, and you see potential rapists, and there is no positive black family image portrayed whatsoever, but you have this sharp contrast between good and then end white and black. i am not saying white families have not adopted black kids, but you know something? black families have adopted black kids, and you have to ask yourself, would that be a movie? would that movie have been produced? if i came to you about a black family getting a black kid. tavis: that ain't no movie in hollywood. what about "precious"? >> precious is loaded. it is one thing to talk about black stereotypes'. the idea that you have got a father who is having sex with his 3-year-old -- is that the stereotype? i think that is beyond the stereotype. what "precious" does is it takes stereotypes' and a exaggerates even those things it considers to be stereotypes. tavis: stereotypes on steroids. >> i have heard a lot, but the idea of a mother calling a daughter to help her sexually. >> and she is illiterate and has hiv aids. >> here is another one. how about the stereotype of the strong matriarch? precious has a grandmother who does not even show up on camera fully formed. she is a cowardly figure. in all the stereotypes i know of of the black grandmother, she says, you are not going to do that to my grandchild, and look of the color. everything we see that is black -- bad is black. the characters who come to save the day -- just like "the blindside" -- everyone who comes to help out our have white or all white. -- half white or all white. all the pathologies' anybody ever heard of. incest, brutality, child abuse, spiking the baby like a wide receiver. nothing redeeming about it. tavis: how you respond to people who savy in this instance -- how these funds -- how do you respond to those people that say tyler perry makes these movies. it was directed by a black man. it was written by a black man. get out of that nonsense of us seeing things on the screen. we are just watching this. we did not make this. you all made this. >> that is perfect brainwashing. if it is brainwashing, you cannot get around it. the brainwashed becomes part of the brainwashing team, and then it becomes unconscious that we carry that whole thing out. the interesting thing about all the people who seemingly are in charge of this movie and behind the movie -- they all say they are victims of molestation, and that may be the case. i take their word at it, but to put that on us as a race, i say it is unfair, and it is not an indication of what really happens in our community. tavis: is there anything redemptive debt is happening in regard to pushing back on the -- that is happening in regard to pushing back on the brainwashing? >> i think for those people who have experienced the molestation, i have been hearing it is good for them, because they are able to talk about it and come out with this whole horror. tavis: kind of therapeutic? >> yes, but that is really coming into a lot of damage to get the little good, so it is basically -- in my view, it does more damage than good. in our book, we have this graphic. the book is really meant to be used. it is not just meant to be read. it is how to vote. -- a how to book. we need to get everything that speaks to black people and making judgments as to whether these images and words move us back or move us forward. and then decide how are we going to speak to that. i look get precious as objectively as i can, and -- i look at "precious" as objectively as i can, and i believe it makes us look backwards. tavis: the first lady, two beautiful daughters, are they the best antidote against brainwashing today? >> they are very powerful antidotes against brainwashing today. we have some evidence of positive affect on gunman. here we have a man who is not only black but has of black air about him. tavis: he has it when he wants to have it and does not when he does not. >> that is not the story. here is the point. the point is even the black president of the united states cannot compete with this constant bombardment of negative images we get in every form of media from the beginning of the day to the beginning of the next day without end in every form of media various. tavis: you mention harry reid. we were laughing about the comment said he has it when he needs to have it and it goes away when he does not need it. in the context of "brainwash," what do you make of harry reid commons -- comments? >> i think what he said is true. i believe the president is a acceptable to the broader population because of what harry reid described. he is able to talk their language. the fact of the matter is he is closer to the broader population than a person who is not of mixed race, so the part is true. the fact that he said it basically shows the lack of sensitivity on his part. tavis: dozen did show harry reid has been brainwashed to believe it? -- doesn't need to show harry reid has been brainwashed to believe it? >> it does, but what harry reid is doing is reporting what other people think, so it was certainly an inappropriate thing to say, but i hate to find myself agreeing with a guy like george we'lheel, but i just coud not find anything to say about him being wrong about that. there is cholera's them. -- colorism. there is a kind of reaction that is scary when a person does not talk right. tavis: i wonder if you are hopeful in your lifetime that we please have the obama family, do you hope in your lifetime we are going to see any progress on this at all? >> i am hopeful we are not only going to see progress. i am hopeful we are going to resolve the issue. i think this book is going to help along those lines. here is what i really felt strongly about. we cannot write this book if we cannot talk about solutions. talking about the problem without solutions only frustrates people. we have a solution. we have a solution in a library card. if you do not have a computer, you have a library card. you can work on reshaping negative images into positive images, because if you