implications oevery sll change that you notice. change is not always for the better. and even if it it for the better it's not always sustained. so we need change in the right direction that is steady and stable and we would like the world to keep an eye on what's happening. >> rose: we continue with the burning question of the moment in american politics, will governor chris christie of new jersey run for the republican nomination for president? joining the conversation, tom defrank of the "new york daily news," nia-malika henderson of the "washington post," matthew dowd, former strategist for george w. bush,john harris of politico and jack welch former c.e.o. of general electric. >> a decisive leader. somebody who's done something in new jersey that's special. and has done the real thing, who seems to be totally authentic. it's a very attractive characteristic. >> he's smart enough to understand that it's the wrong time for him. that he's not ready to be president which i think makes him presidential timbr to tell yothe truth. i have twoords for governor christie, fred thompson. >> i think the two questions governor christie hasto answer-- and we always answer the first question-- is are you ready to run? and i think that's the a question you've got to answer. but the second question which i think is an important question is are you ready to governor? and i think barack obama answered the first question yes, he was ready to run and he won. but i don't think many candidates asked the second question, are you ready to govern? >> once he plunged in, he will find this is damn hard work. it's hard work to assemble a campaign and ensure ballot access and particularly-- and perry underscores this-- it's hard work showing you are, in fact, ready to goern and performing well in these debates and other high profile settings if you haven't been preparing. >> should he? i mean, as a reporter, sure, i'd li another person in this race the cover closely and it would make the race that much more exciting and volatile. will he? it doesn't look like he will. from everything he said, i think he actually came out to say, you know, he would have to commit suicide in order to convince people that he's not going to run. >> rose: aung san suu kyi and whether christie will run or not when we continue captioning sponsor by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin this evening with a conversation with someone you might know and admire but have nevereen in conversation. shes myanmar's oosition leader aung san u kyi. her non-violent campaign for democracy won her the nel peace prize in 1991. she was under house arrest for almost 15 of the last 21 years. she wareleased in november, 2010, but remains under clos government surveillance. i spoke to her last week at the 2011 clinton global initiative during skype. it was a conversation i began with desmond tutu, the archbishop from south africa, we were participating in the clinton global initiative introduced by president clinton who joined us later in the conversation. but here it is tap last week. it's my honor and a great pleasure and opportunity to go across oceans via satellite to talk to aung san suu kyi. i hope you can hear me. this is charlie rose sitting with archbishop tutu here in new york. and there you are. please join me here in new york in welcoming aung san suu kyi who is in myanmar. (applause) thank you very much. as you can see, there is standing ovation here in new york for you. (applause) which is... which is a tribute. if we can hear you... which is a tribute to the respect that the world has for you. how are you and how goes your own struggle for democracy? >> i'm well and very happy to see both of you, especially archbishop desmond tutu who i've always wanted to mt. this is almost as good as meeting in person and it's ve kind for him to get to see him this way. you asked how things are getting on. it's getting out. it's not easy and i'm sure every south african knows how difficult this kind of struggle can be and we're talking about the reconciliation that is sometimes the most difficult of all because both sides have to be prepared to compromise and to give not just take. and give and take is such a mutual process that we need to find the right balance. we are at a very difficult state but at the same time, as i've always said i'm cautiously optimistic going forward and that we will be ableo get on to t road to true national reconciliation. >> rose: what's necessary in terms of the message that you want to say to the world about the struggle? because i think of a speech you made about freedom from fear. how have you been able to make this journey when we appreciate the sacrifices you've had to make and not seeing your children, having your husband die away from your country. >> all journeys are made step by step. and that's how i have made this journey, step by step. to be quite honest, i didn't think when i first started out in the movement that i would have to devote my life to it. i took it for granted that i would somehow balance mily as i went along with my struggles but it turned out not to b true. but i not the only one who is in this position now. many of my colleagues are working alone wiout t support of families and friends. so i get tremendo courage from looking at them, from lookingat how hard they struggle and they are the unknown soldiers of our cause and i think the unknown soldiers are far braver and far worthier than people like me who are known to the world. and because i'm known to the world i'm protected to a great degree. but those unknown people who are working as much as i am, they are not known to the world so th don't at protection. their courage is tremendous. and to work with people like that you are encouraged and strengthened from day to day to continue this journey step by step. sometimes i think we've learned. >> rose: i want to bring archbishop tutu in on this coersation. i, like nerve his audience, the idea of the two two of you talking to each other with the values that you have. because you have said before my goal is not regime change my goal is value change. values are what drove the people in south africa to findheir own freem as well. archbishop tu. >> rose:. >> well, i'm like a smitten young man. i love you. (applause) >> i must return the compliment. >> rose: you're smitten as well? >> i just want you to know how much you have inspired many people and because you continue to believe in the humanity even of those who have sought to dehumanize you over these many years. god is proud of you. and god smiles even throughthe pain as god looks at the incredible thing th you are doing, have done. the things that you have suffered, your compassion, your beauty. (laughter) >> rose: the he goes again! >> (laughs) >> rose: do you believe and do you have to believe that democracy... full democracy will come? >> yes, i do believe that. otherwise i would not be taking this journey step by painful step. because when we talk about democracy we're really talking about institutions. we want the kind of institutions that will protect the freedom and security of our people. and some people say democracy a western concept. it's a western word but the idea of freedom and security needs to be balanced with the concept that is acceptable to human beings across the globe. and this is what we want. people want restraint but they want to be secure as well. this is why when the americans talk authe right to life, bertand pursuit of happiness everybody else can understand that. we all want our lives to be protecte we all want to be free. we all want to be able to find our own freedom to search for our own happiness, build our own ppiness, not to have other people's idea of happiness imposeon us whether we nt it orot. so i think when we say we want democracy, we want the kind of simple feds and security that people all over the world want. archbishop desmond tutu was talking about the rights of women and girls. in burma, women are supposed to have a relatively isolated society and yet we are still the second class of gender. still even in burma. and we see this is a problem of human trafficking and of course the majority of people trafficed are women and girls. so this shows that there's a lot still to be done for women and girls in burma as in africa and other places in the world. >> rose: look at the arab spring does it resonate you because of the struggle you have made for dignity and democracy and changing the opportunity for people to control their own destiny? >> yes, of course. vements like the ones that are happening in the arab countries means something people all over the world struggling for their own freedom. manyeople remember what happenedn 1982348 burma when our people rose up to ask for democracy. of course our societies are very different but in the end they're all human beings and i think we can all understand each other's hope and fear and aspirations. we would like the arab countries to be as happy and proerous and secure as we would want our country to be. >> rose: i'm going to give you another opportunity. >> (laughs) >> rose: as you sit there smitten. >> i'm dazed. i just want to say, too, how inspirational you have been pointing out that ultimately good will prevail. that we believe god wants this world to be a world that is more compassionate, that is more gentle, that is more caring, that is more sharing and you live that out. >> rose: do you feel that there is real traction taking place in terms of building on the possibility of changing myanmar? >> i think there's a possibility of change. i think this... i noticed on the very first day i was released because i saw so many young people in the crowds who came to greet me. many more young people than i'd ever seen in other crowds that have come to greet me in many parts of burma before i was put away in 2003 and this made me understand that there was some change going on. change that is coming from the people. and i think that's the best and most reliable kind of change. and of course you've heard i've talked to some of the representatives of the government and we hope we are waiting to see signs of real change very soon. the has be a lot talk but people always want to see something concrete and they're right, too, talk is never enough but at least it's the beginning and we are beginning to see the beginning of change. we have said... i mean, i have said i'm looking forward to coming to burma when u are grated as the head of government there. quite seriously. (applause) >> rose: we couldn't hear because of the applause for that. would you repeat that? >> i have to be very, very ambitious because i do something want to come. (laughter) >> rose: we're all witness to something that's going on here. mutual admirationnd more. (laughter) when you... what is it that the world can do to aid in the struggle that you're engaged in? >> awareness. i alwaysay that. what we really need is awareness. awareness of what is going on our country. it's not easy to know exactly what's going on. sometimesology what going on. i'm not sure because so much is going on at the same time but i think we need cultivate awareness of what's going on around us and if the world wants to help burma, the world needs to know what is happening in burma. and this means a lot of effort. you don't get to know what's happening in a place just by looking at a newspaper from time to time. i think you really have to follow what' going on there and to think very deeply about the implications of every small change that you noticed. change is not always for the better and even if it is for the better it's not always the same. so what we need is change in the right direction that is steady and sustainable and we would like the wld keep an eye on what's happening. >> rose: awareness is one thing that you suggested. we have to be aware andyou just can't come and occasionally check on it, you have to have an ongoing sense of the necessity of awareness and contribution. but what is it that governments can do? >> i think first of all they should listen to the voice of the people of burma. what is this that the people of burma want? and then they can decide how they can help. because with hu jintao, we are neighbors, burma is a neighbor of china and india and it's always been good neighbors and we would like to continue be good neighbors. but times ar changed and circumances have changed and to continue to be good neighbors certain policies have to change. i believe thathe best kind of relationship between any two countries is a good relationship between two people. not only between the government, between the people. and this i would like every head of government to keep in mind it matters in the long run and with the united states government i would like like to take the opportunity to say that i very much appreciate what they have done for us for over two decades now to help us in the struggle for democracy. but, of course, we always think that more can be done. i think that this is so the people... we always think that more can be done. and we would appreciate it very much if the process would hp by giving... by the right kind of encouragement in the right places. >> rose: is there specific things that you need in order to communicate yourwn struggle and your own passion? do you have the access that you now need rohr there limitations in what you can do? >> well this is the kind of thing that i could never have done seven years ago, is speak to you like this and see you like this. so we are making progress but we need more progress and what i'm very concerned about is that we need young people tobe more fit to cope with the challenges of the modern world. we need a better educated burma. we need bter health care. we need a more open society in which r young people can realize their potential. >> rose: and are they aware... are the young people of burma aware of your own struggle? does everyone understand the plight that you have had undergo? >> i wouldn't say that everyone is aware of it or everyone understands. but i can say that a lot of young people are supporting us and i think more and more everyday and that's very encouraging. >> rose: social media, as you know, played a prominent role in the arab spring. does it play a role in burma. >> i don't think the media has quite (inaudible) because in burma we do not have such a develod communication, can we put it that way? and veryew of our young people really have access to the modern technologies that plad such an important role in the arab spring. >> rose: you have talked about freedom from fear. remind us how you have been able to have a freedom from fear and why it's crucial in living the life that you haveived. >> well, if you were fighting all the time you wouldn't be able to sustain in the circumstances in which i had to live. so i think i had to learn not to let fear control. but freedom from fear, i do not mean that you don't feel free but you let fr control you. it's not fear that should decide what you do or whayou should not do. you have to face that fear in order to be committed to a cause in wch you believe. >> rose: you've also talked about changing values rather than regimes. how will you achve a chan in values? >> by tking and talking, i suppose. so far that's what i think happened to it i try to talk to as many people as possible to make them understand what we are working for, what we are struggling for and why. i think basically people have the right to know what other people are doing if we want them to join us then they must know why but i have to explain that we don't need to say that much. a lot of people understand but they want the same thing that we want. >> rose: it gives me great honor again, as i mentioned earlier to invite president clinton back because of what he said to this audience and what he said to me so please invite president clinton. (applause) >> hello. i was just jealous of the bhop and charlie having all the fun with you. and i wanted to thk you for doing this and thank you for continuing to lead and inspire us all. and thank you for being willing to make all the sacrifices you'd have madeo live t beautiful life you live. we're very grateful. thank you. >> rose: this has been a remarkable experience for nerve this room to have this opportunity to see and here you live as you were speaking these words of aspiration and affirmation about universal values and your own sense of the very real possibilities of political change. i suspect that president clinton as well as archbishop tutu would very much like to be there on a day that you see the democracy that you have fought for achieved and they could be on a plane to watch you as they watched nelson mandela find the freedom for people of south africa, thank you again for a wonderful opportunity. (applause) >> rose: there'srowing spulation about whether new jersey governor chris christie will enter the replican presidential contest. he's being urged to run by many dinary citizens, wealthy donors and party leaders. s appeal includes his blunt style, fresh face and record in new jersey. there's still questions about his experience and electability in a closely watched speech tuesday night at the ronald reagan presidential library governor christie attacked president obama's record. >> ourbipartisan accomplishments in new jersey have help to set a tone that's taken ahold across many other states. it is a simple but powerful message. lead on the tough issues by telling your citizen it is truth about the depths of our challenges. tell them the truth about the difficulty of our solutions. this is the only way to lead america during these troubling times. in washington, on the other hand we have watched as we drift from conflict to conflict with little or no resolution. we watch a president who once talked about the courage of his convictions but still has yet fod the courage to lead. we watch a congress at war with itself because they're unwilling to leave campaign-style politics at the capitol's door. the result is a debt ceiling limitation debate that made our democracyppear as if we could no longer effectively governor ourselves. and still we continue to wait and hope that o president will finally stop being a bistander in the oval office. we hope he will shake off the paralysis that has made it impossible for him to take on the big things that a so obvious to all americans and to a watching and anxious world. yes, we hope. we hope. because each and every time the president lets a moment to act pass him by, his failure is our failure, too. the failure to stand up for the bipartisan debt solutions of the simpson bowles commission, a report the president asked for himself, the failure to act on the country's crushing unemployment, the failure to act on ever expanding and rapidly eroding entitlement programs. the failure to discern pork barrel spending from real infrastructure investment. you see, the rule foreffective governance is simple. it's the one ronald reagan knew by heart. it's the one he successfully employed with social security and the cold war. when there is a problem, you fix it. that's what you do. >> that's what he d. that's the job we've been sent to do and you cannot wait for someone else to do it when you're sitting in the ol office. we pay for this failure of leadership many, many times over. the domestic price is obvious-- growth slows, high levels of unemployment persist and we make ourselves even more vulnerable to the unpredictable behavior of skittish markets where the political decisions of our lenders but there's also a foreign polyrice to pay. we diminish our ability and influence the thinking and ultimately the behavior of others. the is no better way to persua other societies arod the world than to become more democratic and more market oriented than to show that our democracy and our markets work better than any other system. why should we care why should it matter to us? because we believe as president reagan did that democracy the best protector of dignity and freedom and we know this because historshows that mature democracies are less likely to resort to force against their own people or their neighbors. we should care because we believe in free and open trade as exports are the best creators of high-paying jobs here and imports are a means to deserve consumeer choice. >> rose: now we have tom defrk of the "new york daily news," nia-malika henderson of the "washiton post," matthew dowd, former strategist for george w. bush and a kohl columnist in and from virginia john harris of politico and with me in new york jack welch, former c.e.o. of general electric. i'm pleased to have all of them here. john harris, tell me what... politico follows this closely. what's the latest on thi pursuit and quandary about governor cistie? >> the lates is that this is real. for a time it looked like it might have been frenzys with wisps of speculation being built up into something big but not real. this does seem to be real. governor christie is authentically reviewing his initial decision not to run. i think the consensus among our reporters is that even though this is real ultimately the... by far the most likely scenario that he will stick with his iginal decision and not run but he is actively reviewing that. >> rose: you know lot of these people who are urging, begging, pleading, offering to get him in the race. what's behind it? >> the desire to have a fresh face, a decisive leader, somebody who's done something in new jersey that's special. and has done the real thing. who seems t be totally authentic. it's a very attractive characteristic. ros is it more about him or the fact that you're not happy with the field? >> i think it's more about him. i think field is pretty good. you stack up the candidates that are there against the current incumbent and from our point of view they look very, very good. >> rose: what's the talk in washington about his... what will be a deciding factor for him? >> well, in terms of getting in there... he has talked about this in terms of talking abo his wife and whether or not she wanted him to run. he wantso finish about his term as new jersey governor. also, he had this whole sense also that he wasn't necessarily ready to be president and i think, you know, if he decides to get in this thing-- and it looks unlikely that he would-- that would be a statement that would probably come back and haunt him. this whole idea that he wasn't ready to be president. some of the chatter around washington, quite frankly, is about his weight and whether or not he that has stamina, whether he's fit you have no make this a big run for president because this is... you know, in some waysunning for president is like a marathon. it's incredibly challenging physically. here's a guy who was hospalized over the summer for asthma not related to his weight but i think that's something people are talking about and certainly that he seems to probably be considering and something he's talked about before. >> rose: tom defrank, you wrote a column saying, a, he's not ready. b, it may be too late. >> well, and also, charlie, i said, c, he's smart enough to understand that it's the wrong time for him. that he's not rey to be president which i think makes him presidential timbre, to tell you the truth. i don't give advice to politicians or people i cover, obviously, but i have two words for governor christie: fred thompson. it was four years ago this month that former senator thompson, t.v. actor, high-name recognition, a lot of people liked him, he was the... what i call the great right hope. he's the guy who was going to be the new ronald reagan, this time a little southern pride from tennessee and the same sort of siren song was directed at him by people who weren't particularly happy with the choices. mccain, giuliani and so he's in that same mode now. fred thompson came in in september of 2007 and he was gone in five months. he got nine delegates and he never came up above third. maybe governor christie would be better campaigner than former senator fred thompson, but the fact is time is awasting and if... as it looks down, you're going to have three or four primaries a caucuses in january, you've got three months to get ready and you'd have to be superman to be ready on that short a time frame. >> rose: some say if there are two words to be applied, it is barack obama. when you should go is not really up to you necessarily, there is an oppornity and y cannot fail to move when there's opportunity. >> well, you don't have to have experience to run and win and you don't have to follow the normal rules of the process and i think this is somewhat about governor christie. he has people... a lot of people respect him, he's done a good job the short time he's been in office but i think it's been much more about what's going on in the field. the door is being pulled up for governor christie's run by three men, it's pulling the door open first is barack obama because he's extremely vulnerable and republicans know he ca be beat if they have the right candidate. so he's pulling the door open. the other person pulling the door open is mitt romney. mitt romney seems to have an incapacity to put this race to rest. he's sitting at the same poll numbers, 25%, 26%, 23% and he doesn't seem to move no matter what happens in the race. and the third person most recently holding the door open is governor perry. when governor perry got in this race initially with great fanfare, he went up high in the polls, everybody said he's got the right credentials, he created jobs, he served as governor, he's never lost an office. he has appeal to fiscal and social conservatives but as w know he stumbled in the three debates he's been in. i think if governor christie wants to run he still has time. i think practical deadline for this race is the end of october. i actually believe that rick perry actually got in this race too soon, not too late. if rick perry waited six weeks he would have skipped over some of the debate, he would have been on a rise going into the holidays, he would have come out of the holidays still on a rise and then it would have been a focus on what's going on in iowa, what's going on in new hampshire. i think the two questions governor christie has to answer-- and we always answer the first question-- is are you ready to run? and i think that's a question you have to answer. but the second question which i think is an important question is are you ready to govern? and i think barack obama answered the firstuestion yes. he was ready to run and he won. but i don't think many candidates asked the second question which is are you ready to govern? >> rose: bill braey asked that question, said he wa't ready and decided not to run a now he regrets it because that was hispportunity. >> as i say, these windows... governor chris di probably in my view has a better chae of nning the presidency than he does a winning reelection in new jersey. i think the likelihood of him being able to stay in office and run and win again in new jersey with the dynamics that are going to be at play are low. i think it's fairly nigh an settled field where republicans are not satisfied with t current crop candidates as we can see from every poll, he's got a shot-- if he wants to. d he's got... as everybody said on this interview, he has to answer certa questions and deal with some things. i think geing in late in this process is an asset, not a liability. >> rose: john harris, what are the liabilities other than nia poted to? >> well, just the basic dynamic politics and it's like a lot of life, the fantasy is more alluring often than the reality. so once he plunges in, he would find this is dam hard work, it's hard work to assemble a campaign it's hard work to assure ballot access and perry i think underscores this, it's hard work showing you are ready to govern and performing well in these debates and other high profile settings if you haven't been preparing. i agreeith what was said that romney's vulnerabilities were there, that's one of the windows creating the opportunity for governor christie but romney i think illustrates another point. almost everybody who watched him said "gosh, this is a much more effective, commanding candidate than he was in 2008." there is an advantage to organizing your life aroundhe pursuit of the presidency for a number years, the discipline, the self-confidence to win these things. so i'd say it's hard to come in late and prove as attractive in reality as he might seem in the fantasy. >> rose:eople le k langham, he's one your best friends. paul singer is involved in. this charles schwab may or may not be. >> ls of people. >> rose: lots of big-money people. they sense this is a year they can win and they want to make real sure they've got the right person. >> yeah and i don't think he's as much of a fantasy as the current incumbent turned out to be. the current incumbent won totally on fantasy, totally on myth, totally an idea. >> rose: a narrative. >> a narrative. but chris christie has done things. >> rose: what has he done that makes him rhett di to be president? >> he's taken on entitlements which have to be dealt with and he's done in the a fair with with a democratic house and democratic senate in new jersey. he's brought coalition together matthew may have more information about new jersey. i find him to be quite popular in new jersey, erything i read. he may get beaten up in the next round but but he's brought together vatsly different people and done in the a decisive way and delivered real change. >> rose: but you are a manager. yowere one of the best manages in corporate america until you retired. does he have the stuff to be? >> i think so. >> rose: not in comparison to barack obama but does have more capacity to lead than firm? >> look,'m not here selling chris christie. i'm here telling you that he's a very viable strong candidates. if y look at mitt romney other than this intangible we can't quite all touch... >> rose: but it's true, is it not? >> we don't know yet. >> rose: we do know! >> he's getting stronger every single day. he had a show in new york where people came away saying my god, i can't believe it's the same guy. >> rose: than when he ran four years ago? >> right, very positive. very impressed. >> he's a much-improved candidate from four years ago but the fact still remains, he is known by 100% of the reblican primary andaucus goers. 100% of republican primary and caucus goers know him. 75% in this entire year have been unwilling to vote for him. they keep looking for somebody else. one day they're for michele bachmann, the next day they're for governor perry, the nt day for herman cain, then newt gingrich. they're not for mitt romney. now can he solve that problem? that's an open question. the question i have for mitt romney is 25% a floor or ceiling and it seems to be for me a ceiling he has. >> rose: >> he's been stuck at that 25%, 22%, 23%% for years now. he's been ruing for preside for about six years now and what you hear from a lot of republicans when they talk about mitt romy is this fear he would end up like bob de or john kerry on the democratic side meaning he would be the last man standing but not a lot of excitement around his candidacy. one of his problems is he doesn't have a compelling narrative. he doesn't have a compelling bio on the way perry does. even the narrative that christie would have as this guy, a next door type of figure and somebody who's been able to govern. >> rose: wait a minute, why doesn't mitt romney have a compelling narrative? here's a guy who managed the olympics very successfully. he's a guy that was successful in business. you might have quarrel about private equity. this guy has been a success in life. has remarkably good family, has been governor of massachusetts. you can attack his record whether it's health care but he was a succeful governor. why isn't that a narrative that fits our times? >> i think in presidential politics people to tend to like narratives and you saw that, for instance, with perry. he's a guy who made his way all the way up to the governor's mansion, back obama with his very interesting personal bio. and mitt romney comes across as a guy who sprung fully formed from the time he was born. (laughter) >> and certainly has a pretty good background. the son of a governor. so i think that's how he comes across. where somebody like john mccain, people wanted to get behind this guy because he was a war hero. even bob dole. and the republicans, they look at this guy and it's hard to make the push for him. >> one of the things that i think, these presidential races, buy east coast and issues discussions are not what these races are about. it becomes these core set of values that voters figure out. and the bio either distracts or enhances from it. mitt romney for many republicans that i've talked to over the last five or six years don't really know he has a core set of values. they think he's got experience and different issue stands but in 2007 a 2008 as he emerged and took various positions on something he developed a problem and the problem was how authentic is this guy's core set of values? that's one of the reasons why they were atacted to rick perry and i think chris christie... it's one of the assets he has. you may not like the way he looks or exactly his issues stands but you say this guy's t a core set of values and that in the send what voters are looking for. >> rose: is he the most ragesque of the characters? >> i don't kw if he's reaganesque. he's a sort of own brand in this race. he's... to me people talk about can somebody that's overweight get elect? to me his size or his fact that he's overweight is actually a plus in this race because it makes them look like non-traditional. it makes him look like he's not the quaffed hollywood candidate, somebody out of central casting. he's a new kind of guy that basically doesn't care what other people think, he's going to do what right. >> overweight in rumpled suits against obama is a winner right now. >> rose: tom defrank? >> charlie, christie has another problem and that is the lineup of the early contest doesn't help him. it's hard to imagine christie doing well with evangelicals and tea party zealots and i don't mean in a pejorative sen, i'm talking about their intensity. i don't think he's a natural match for those voters in iowa. i don't think christie is going to go over well in south carolina. nevada i don't know and i think it's hard to see how christie beats mitt romney in new hampire, his backyard where he has asummer home. i think if romney can't win in new hampshire, i think he's out early. so i think all of that works against christie. the other thing here is he's certainly not ronald reagan. this is the republican party pining for another reagan. >> rose: i didn't say reagan, i said reaganesque. >> i agree. >> they may be pining... >> rose: math sgl >> they maybe pining, people may be mentioning ronald reagan's name but if you look at where these stands are right now ronald reagan would have a hard time getting nominated. ronald reagan would have a hard time getting nominated. >> rose: too far to the left? because they would bring up wow, he raised texas in california. he was pro-choice at one point in time. wow he made compromises with the democrats. all of that stand wouldut him on the left side of the table in this race. >> rose: john harris? >> charlie, if i could weigh in, i thk seral things matt's saying are very shrewd but to some extent he's contradicting himself a little bit saying that issues don't matter. i do believe that we as reporters tend to overemphasize biography and narrative, underemphasize ideology, particularly in a nomining contest. ideology does matter, maybe not specific issue positions but ideology i think primaryvoters see as an important part of that. and i do think christie would have a problem on this score. he's a man of the center right in a year that at least so far ems to be dominated by a very enthusiastic, emphatic right sort of with no adjectives, right-right not center-right. >> rose: i want to just come to one point wit respect to this. does forgn policy experience matter? >> oh, i think it matters. i think it matters, yes, it does. and that's another problem christie's got to deal with, charlie, he's got to do his home work if he decides to run, and i don't think he's going to decide to run. but if he does he has to do a lot of home work on foreign policy. you saw rick perry stumble in the last debate talking about the pakistani country. well, a lot of republicans held their heads about that and, of course, the democrats had a field day making fun of him. there's no evidence that christie has much foreign policy experience and you wouldn't expect him to but he's got to have a basic ideology. he's got to have a basic pater there and he doesn't have it at the moment. i don't think it's decisive in his case but i think he's got to get up to sneed a big hurry. >> rose: i ink there's one thing really different thi time and i think there's a massive intensity among the republican party... >> and independents. >> rose: and hopefully independents that the country's going in the wrong direction. and there won't be bystanders when t election comes. there's more intensity. the last time around there wasn this intensity. mccain washe "okay, i'llote for him, i've got to." but this time around mitt romney christie, maybe even perry will, in fact, attract a passionate republican and hopefully independent crowd. >> rose: but that raise thiis question. i've got two questions. one is is this a guy that, among all the republicans because of his so-called charisma and authenticity, his toughness and the fact that he is not easily defined other than center-right and if you listened to his speeches and engaged him in conversation, he's surprising in the ways he approaches issues. does that make him the best republican possibility because he will appeal to independents who do not want you to be too ideological? they want you to be a bit pragmatic. >> well, i think the question would be could he survive the primaries with this center right philosophy that he has. if you look at that speech that he gave-- and, of course, he was at the reagan library, nancy reagan was in the audience there-- he used the phrase "learship" and "compromise" four times. leadership not a problem but this whole idea of compromise is not what the republican base wants to hear. they want more red meat politics. and he gives name in some ways just with his demeanor. he has a sort of bullying demeanor, especially when he does these town halls and interacts with teachers and people from unions. but i think he would have a problem... >> rose: he gets cheering when he does that. >> right, but he has a problem on global warming. >> rose: what about charisma, matthew? >> well, charisma is exceedingly... obviously that's what barack obama had and meeting expectations is a huge thing. i mean, that's one of governor pey's problem, the huge expectations, if you don't meet them you fall. governor christie if he does this he has to meet the expectations. i want to go back to an earlier point. barack obama's speech on the war mattered because democrats were looking for somebody that would take it to bush, that would take to bush. barack obama used... he was one of the first people stand up, people like, yeah, let's do this let's and up. republican voters want somebody that's going to take barack obama to the wood shed. now, they're going to be willing to excuse some certain issues, but they want passion and willingness to take them to the wood shed. governor perry's problem, i think, is he's gotten distracted on a bunch of issues and he's forgotten the primary motive people want in this race is to take barack obama out of the presidency. governor christie... he can have certain stands on certain things, if he takes barack obama to the wood shedd in a passionate direct way, he has an opportunity in this. i'm not saying he's gng to win the nomination. i ink this field is so open and so fluid that a governor christie could come in this race and win and this window may not exist four years from now. >> rose: does the tea party and that sort of wing of the republican party... can they... do they have to be satisfied before somody can get the nomination? do you have to meet their seal of approval? anybody? >> i think you have to be satisfactory to the tea party. i don't know if there's a real test, a specific test. you obviously have to be fiscally conservative and all that. but if you're not satisfactory to the tea party in this election, as we found out in the delaware races in 2010 and in the nevada races in 2010, the tea party or the people that the tea party movement symbolizes have a huge power in this race. >> rose: okay. jack wanted to say that that was no candidate. >> that was not a candidate, that's not... a litmus test. >> rose: let me do this. i'll start with you, tom. i'll ask two questions as sometimes ask. should he? will he? >> should he? no. will he? no. >> rose: matt? >> no and no. >> should he? yes. because i think if he wants to do something about the country this is his one opportunity. will he? i think that joh harris is right. the last 24 hours it seemto have definitely changed from what i hear. in the end i think he'soing to answ a family queson. i don't know the answer to will he. he should. >> rose: will he, should he, john? >> the governor of virginia who i once covered had a saying when the thing is right the time is right. only governor christie can answer for mself whether he thinks the thing is right. is he ready to run for? is it the right thinging to do? and the time willing take care of itself. my hunch is, as i just try to read the tea leaves, and that's what we do in this business, he decide the thing is not right at this time. >> rose: the aforementioned governor after he ran and failed had difficulty with his virginia electorate, that's a risk at well. >> very hard to run as a sitting governor. that's a fact we haven't mentioned about governor christie. harder than for a senator. >> rose: should he, will he? >> should he? as a reporter, sure. i'd like another person in this race to cover closely and it would make the race that much more exciting and volatile. will he? it doesn't look like he will. i mean, from everything he said, i think he actually came out to say, you kno he wod have to commit suicide in order to convince people that he's not going to run. so it doesn't loo like he will, but, again, from areporter's perspective, it would be exciting to have somebody else in this race. >> rose: jack well snch >> should he? >> rose: yes. >> absolutely. this is his moment, the chance might never be better. will he? my friends would tell me that they're optimistic, pushing rd. it's 50.5 that he wil >> rose: trending toward. >> trendg towards. >> rose: thank you all very much. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org smiley. tonight we pay tribute to the remarkable life and a lasting legacy of wangari maathai. became the first african woman to receive the nobel peace prize on behalf of her work for women in kenya and beyond. tonight we will bring you our previous conversation in its entirety. she passed away from complications due to ovarian cancer. we are glad you can join us. >> every community has a martin luther king boulevard. it's the cornerstone we all know. it's not just a street or boulevard, but a place where wal-mart stands together with your community to make every day better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and answer, help tavis improve financial literacy aov rndste emsacob to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your you. thank you. kcet public television] tavis: she came up with what seemed like a simple idea in kenya. seemed like a simple idea in kenya.