Areas are evacuating some coastal communities outside the levee system that protects New Orleans are under mandatory evacuation orders in Jefferson and Plaquemines Parish as regional levee authorities are closing floodgates to protect against storm surge the u.s. Army Corps of Engineers is keeping close watch on the swollen Mississippi River which has broken records this year for weeks of flood stage water levels the levees are mostly about 20 feet high and expect water levels near the top the storm is expected to develop into a low level hurricane over the weekend packing winds capable of pushing river water over the top in levees between New Orleans and the Gulf of Mexico for n.p.r. News I'm Eileen Fleming in New Orleans and day 2 of testimony on Capitol Hill Federal Reserve chair Drome Powell again indicated an interest rate cut from the central bank could be coming later this month who sent markets higher for a 2nd day the Dow is up 227 points this is n.p.r. . Totally the need for more tech savvy workers online retailer Amazon says it is offering to pay to retrain many of its domestic employees company announced today it will spend around $700000000.00 to train 100000 workers that's roughly a 3rd of its domestic workforce most of the in-house training would be free for employees with the company announcing it will offer several programs depending on skill and job level with Amazon increasingly turning to technology including robots to help move products from Warehouse shelves Nobody says it needs workers that can adapt to rapid technological change one of Britain's biggest drug makers has agreed to pay the u.s. Government 1400000000 dollars to settle claims stemming from the deadly opioid epidemic of North Country Public Radio's Brian Mann reports it's the biggest drug industry payout so far record been keys in give your division made an opioid medication called Suboxone film in April the Justice Department charged in d.v.r. With misleading health care providers and insurance companies about the drug in an effort to boost sales now the British company says it will pay up to $1400000000.00 to resolve all federal investigations and all claims relating to state Medicaid programs despite the pay out record then Keizer executives deny any wrongdoing they point out they sold off the end of the or Division 5 years ago this settlement comes in a year when 3 other firms in says they're a pew dicks produce pharma and have the pharmaceuticals have already paid more than half a $1000000000.00 in opioid related settlements Brian Mann n.p.r. News or Elida oil company stocks took a breather today crude oil futures down $0.23 a barrel to $6020.00 a barrel in New York I'm Jack Speer n.p.r. News in Washington support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include creative planning whose fiduciary advisers look beyond age and risk tolerance to manage clients investments more at creative planning dot com slash n.p.r. Creative planning wealth management redefined. How much control do you think you have over the decisions you make. Probably a lot less than you think every time you open Twitter Facebook you're waiting for that and these algorithms are totally focused on how they biomechanically. Digital manipulation that's next time on the Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. . From Delaware Public Media. This is one essay I'm Joshua Johnson in Washington the Bible is pretty clear hospitality is every believer has responsibility one verse says you may be helping an angel when you help a stranger Jesus said that which you do for the least of these you do also to me. So it's easy to see why some faith organizations feel compelled to render humanitarian aid along the southern border customs and border protection often delivers migrants to faith based shelters directly from detention centers volunteers provide food shelter clothing and travel assistance often in official partnerships with government agencies at all levels but the cost of this help is not just financial it's creating political fault lines within liberal and conservative churches including among white evangelical voters who helped elect Donald Trump president some say that their churches are enabling illegal immigration and that aiding migrants is inherently political others say this is a strictly moral issue nothing to do with politics but it's making people of faith pay for the administration's failings as part of our project one a Across America we tagged along with volunteers from an Episcopal Church in Houston as they headed to Macallan Texas a few miles from the border. What role are these religious organizations playing at the border how do these congregations of you immigration how do they deal with conflicting views on what their church should do and what could all this mean for next year's election our cars packed their personal belongings but. We're really looking forward to this trip we were saddened to see the picture on the news that the man and his 24 month old child. And it's late June Michael Jacobs is loading his blue Subaru s.u.v. He's a retired lawyer in Houston he and his wife Melissa are making their 2nd trip to Macallan in 2 months they're already planning a 3rd and a 4th. Melissa is a peacekeeping Michael is Jewish but he attends her church and we have a travel missives that will make the trip with Father see them cannon for Latino. Ministries at Houston's Christ Church Cathedral. I think. Most Ok they're going to volunteer at a Catholic run respite center in MacCallum It's a sanctuary for migrants who recently been released from detention centers it offers food clothing shelter and access to a nationwide network of help. This trip is also a fact finding mission when they're back in Houston they plan to recruit volunteers and share what they saw at the border Melissa and Michael deny any political motivations but Melissa concedes that they're getting harder to deny she says her conservative friends have told her not to help migrants because they're taking advantage of our asylum policy they don't agree with the policies so they see that are some who are is is an endorsement of the power and endorsement of what they don't support and and my thought is that you cannot physically be in the presence of these women and children and these people and and have your heart be that hard father Seimone immigrated from the Dominican Republic and recently became a citizen he says his longstanding interpretation of Scripture shows that God wants believers to welcome my grants but lately more people are viewing that interpretation as political means the ball in effect that most fear so much is bringing people to to a kind of. White collar and face are just you know c.n.n. Proceed through the glass of that I believe that we got ourselves in a better than very dangerous phase where the conversation going to happen in a big way you got to be careful what you say political speak Michael says all 4 of his Jewish grandparents immigrated to the u.s. In the early 1900 s. They faced resistance similar to what Central American migrants face now he says he feels a duty to be there for them their 1st exposure is the welcoming arms. By the volunteers. Not imagine what it would be like. For by grandparents to Coco. Would be well. The drive from Houston to McCallum is 350 miles nearly a 7 hour trip along the way oak trees turn to Paul dirt turns to sand the air gets humid as the Midwestern climate turns tropical when they arrive the volunteers go to the transit station in downtown Macallan to meet migrants arriving from tension centers. Hundreds of migrants arrive here each day by bus dazed tired disoriented silent. Luis getto is a full time volunteer who tracks how many people arrive at the bus station each day $46.00 that they brought up from here Miguel. Will write down how many buses came. Inside the station Michael is buying all the kids a soda. Tougher call again like bingo. Father Cmon speaks with migrants one migrant who will call her all for safety reasons is from Honduras this is the moment this time we must so they lived under arrest because 1st of all that the country is very unstable now the economy. The economy is very that there's no there's no employment and yet there is a lot of insecurity on the streets violence gangs and so on so they they feel that they feel insecure and I will came to the u.s. With his wife and 2 children from the Honduran town of Hooty Kalpa he says he was separated from them for 8 days while he was in detention. But only in my life it is very hard to be there they hear me later they they speak bad to us only for very brief they will and then like lie down on the mattress as some are just but then did in the night they cannot use them and they have to see me on the bare floor is that instead of them and it's a center that's on the beat I think so for him the worst part of that of the journey was to be like in this kind of trousers and clothes and in the center of attention his story is common among those who spoke to us detention stays tend to last around 8 days men are separated from their families kids stay with their ma. Others maybe they'll shower infrequently rarely do they get to brush their teeth sick children are quarantined but not treated me something we. Both and so he would like to specifically to send this message to his country men and in hunter s. And also to his friends in Central America if they have not yet leave their country to think it twice because that way that that he's being treated at the that things in center he believes that that shouldn't be part of the suffering he says that the suffering is not taken a taken the road leaving the country and him and you know making the journey suffering starts when he gets and when when when they got to the set to be that they should center because they treat their victory then their very badly and that inhumane. Good morning it's. Thursday 27th 806. Fit for. About what we're going to see today it's day 2 and the volunteers are heading to the respite center . You can tell the center used to be a night club it's cruel and dark with black walls and a bar in the corner but instead of liquor bottles the shelves have aspirin tampons and shaving cream adult stand silently in line for clothes and for food children run around draw kick tennis balls to each other and hug stuffed animals one is James Morrison asks one group of girls how old they are but this idea of d.n.a. . OTOH. They say. Melissa holds the hand of a 7 year old girl who will not leave her side children are the most emotional. You would have to be so grand It's also not respond to these children. Michael hell . So a crying child find new shoes to replace his dirty worn out pale. Look here we come for you oh get used to shoot this you like I'm sure you support us Melissa's childhood friend Trish Williams is among the volunteers she attends a Catholic church back home in Mobile Alabama I was talking to my best friend when my best friends there and I told her we were doing because I was getting donations from people and she said yes but do we really want all those thousands and thousands of people and she's one of the most beautiful Christians and now when I looked her in the end I said this isn't about politics this is not what we're talking about here these are human beings that need help and it's not about politics and that's all I can say to people sister norm opinion tell runs the respite center in downtown Macallan she started it at a nearby church in 2014 as unaccompanied minors began reaching the border in record numbers we thought it was just going to be for a couple of days turn out that if this was going to never stopped sister Norma says more migrants come through this location than any other respite center in the country upwards of 900 people a day she does not hide her disdain for the current immigration policies like limiting the number of asylum seekers who can enter the u.s. Each day she blames this policy for the death of all Scott I mean this and his 23 month old daughter the nation cringed at a photo of them face down along the Rio Grande the border between the u.s. And Mexico they drowned while trying to cross just a few days before our visit this family was trying to interact country the right way to the point of entry in they waited for weeks and months because hard the policies that we had in place deters them from doing that and keep them desperate to the point that they risk their lives and going through a river that was. Dangerous and and losing their lives because of that. We have to hold our leaders accountable. Coming up we'll continue our journey along the southern border we'll hear why the high tech smart wall might not work and how Mexican cartels are capitalizing on the influx of migrants this reporting is part of our special project one across America a collaboration with 6 stations including Houston Public Media I'm Joshua Johnson and you're listening to one from w.a.m. You and n.p.r. . Is the Sanskrit word for compassion and on the album bed of illusion. Embrace the practice of meditation and healing. A legendary Pink Floyd song and it's 19 minutes glory. We'll talk about why they did it and perform on the next World Cafe. Tonight at 9 on 91 point one. From Delaware public media I'm Jeremy Hobson high schoolers from around the world will meet next week in Hungary for the 30th international biology Olympiad one American competitor says the hardest part is time dissections you have played some nasty animals in front of you that you have to like. Your hands are shaking making all get very very messy very quickly that's next time on here in the. Weekdays in New Delhi where public media. I'm Jane Clasen coming up on the next on point trumps senses play the British ambassador resigns Acosta defends Epstein plea deal Palosi scolds Progressive's the Round Table is here plus a former Major League Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig steps up to the plate with a new memoir for the good of the game that's coming up on the next on point from n.p.r. . Weekday mornings at 10 from Delaware public media support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from the Pew Charitable Trusts working with states to develop data driven nonpartisan solutions for complex issues more information is available at Pew Trust's dot org from the John d. And Catherine team MacArthur Foundation recognizing exceptionally creative individuals this year's MacArthur Fellows and more information are at mac found dot org. And from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation r w j f dot org. This is one a I'm Joshua Johnson today we're hearing from church volunteers who traveled from Houston to the southern border it's part of our reporting project one day across America a collaboration with 6 stations including Houston Public Media Let's pick up our journey on the southern border. Jody get owns an 80000 acre cattle ranch outside Roma Texas a border town about an hour west of Macallan the ranch has been in his family since the 1900 s. His wife is an Episcopal preacher in Victoria Texas he invited the church volunteers to visit his ranch and learn what it means to live on the border as we ride in his Ford or Ford pickup he tells us about a recent encounter with a group of men on his property These were individuals who didn't appear to be what one might consider a typical individual who was crossing through. A typical immigrant These were individuals all clad in black wearing large packs you know. The leader of that act had a weapon in the back had a weapon so you know it seemed to be a pretty obvious. Drug operation at that point Jody and his father Richard take the church volunteers Michael Melissa and father Seimone to a set of bluffs in Roma that overlook the Rio Grande as the approach they can see the Mexican city of. People swim and play music at a park on the opposite riverbank Richard get walks with Father Cmon on the bluffs It's amazing to hear you are looking at another country. Which it is. This is the u.s. In the glass. Absolutely. Anybody can come. That's the problem. Many. Migrants end up here if they want to avoid detention centers or avoid the policy that only lets a certain number of migrants cross the border the routes that smugglers use to get people across the border are the same ones cartels use to move drugs according to this 5 mile stretch of river it leads the nation in what they call got away people who cross illegally but don't get caught Richard says Border Patrol is essentially powerless to control the flow of people and drugs and guns so. It would be a barrier whatever you want to call it. A road they came use. To go back and. That's missing right now they need. At and that is because this. Is people that. They can easily walk across here. Easily the get say they support a border wall mainly to prevent a pest called the fever tick from infecting their cattle they've not raised cattle in 4 years because of the fever tick they get also make it clear that c.b.p. Agents are always welcome on their property they even let c.b.p. Put a large white surveillance blimp on their property for free and day and night capable . Radar detecting capability but he could see way into Mexico c.b.p. Agent in Charge Ricardo Moreno says the blimp can see about 25 miles into Mexico on a clear day it's operated by former military contractors who tell us they surveilled Afghanistan with these blimps Moreno explains to Father Cmon why this so-called smart border technology could never replace a physical barrier you know we have a drone capability right now because of the weather as you can see from the flag you know really windy. If they schedule 5 days out of the week we may get only one flight just because of when there are technical issues so and that's 2 out that's throughout the nation Mourinho says at the very least you need a physical barrier to channel cartels and migrants away from cities and into the open desert where they're easier to capture. Back at the ghettos ranch agent Moreno explains the challenges of policing the southern border right now people talk about caravans you know we average about 1600 apprehensions here a day that's our average we go from as high as $2500.00 up engines and then like Late yesterday we had $1300.00 apprehensions for a 24 hour period we're about 150 percent over what we were last year and President numbers you know 2014 which was declared a humanitarian crisis where we get Fema funds worse we've already surpassed those numbers right now so our capacity of any city station depending a square footage number of toilets number of seeing is 119 people. I don't 1000 people at any given day. For example today we've got 900 people detained there were 900 people detained this base that there is on for 118 it is unfortunate you can imagine 2 feet 800 people 3 times a day you know the manpower that it takes the funding that it takes there's one station which is a was it was stationary has completed been shut down because they're handling all infectious diseases a lot of cases of flu we've got skin. We've got lice issues. Rashes so that station which still should be operating and patrolling they're shut down so what the cartels doing is they're using that those those families as a way to get our attention because now we have to respond we have to care we have to give water we have to do the humanitarian part and then there be no us with cocaine we just had a seizure of heroin and then and in the marijuana during our conversation in late June he told us that migrants are paying part tell connected smugglers $400.00 or more to cross the border here that's letting cartels buy more weapons and more drugs and powering the very gangs that many of the migrants are trying to escape Moreno also tells the volunteers that c.b.p. Plays a vital role in getting migrants to Sister Norma's respite center in McCallum more than an hour away without us facility Net How are they going to get to McCallum you know how 700 people that are being held and Roma going to get to make our own there's there's no way we've tried to release here but there's only 3 or 4 seats in the buses that go out of. Stark County that we on the ride home Melissa says she still feels the same about helping migrants or building a border wall. Building a wall or a fence or any more enclosures to keep people out who is just as appealing to me now is it was the 1st time I came in the 1st time I thought about Michael has not changed his mind either the experience of seeing the. Arab women and seeing that technology reinforces my idea that 21st century technology can be used instead of. Physical wall with. An old fashioned method father Seimone is also steadfast in fact he plans to send sister Norma more volunteers when he returns to Houston Michael is organizing a clothing and food drive with the Episcopal churches and already has cargo trucks ready to be filled Melissa says faith groups cannot remain neutral when families are suffering on the border if it offends politics so be it we're there to take care of our souls and to hear what's moral one right and good and a politics is not in line politics is the problem not the church after we met agent Moreno Pro Publica reported on a secret Facebook group for current and former Border Patrol agents the group featured jokes about migrant deaths obscene images of Latino lawmakers and threats to members of Congress. Leadership officially condemned the Facebook group when we followed up with Agent Moreno for comment his agency directed us to a written statement on c b P's website from Border Patrol Chief Carlo Provost It reads quote These posts are completely inappropriate and contrary to the honor and integrity I see and expects from our agents day in and day out any employees found to have. Violated our standards of conduct will be held accountable unquote. Let's dig a bit deeper into the disagreement over how faith communities should help migrants at the border or not joining us in studio is Elizabeth Dyess national correspondent for The New York Times who covers faith and politics Elizabeth welcome to want to say thanks for having me and Alisa Stebbing is minister of outreach and youth formation at Trinity Episcopal Church in The Woodlands which is a suburb of Houston Alisa welcome they get to be here we also welcome your questions and comments and thoughts about what your faith community is doing or not doing with regards to the crisis at the border how the conversation is going in your faith community or maybe your faith leader a minister a pastor a rabbi any mom how are you having this conversation with your congregants comments on our Facebook page tweet us at one a or e-mail one a w.a.m. You dot org Elisa Stebbing I'd love to get Sure reaction to the story we just heard anything stand out to you. Yes it's a story that I'm familiar with the struggle of people of faith and then their political persuasions on how to respond to the situation at the border. I think everyone's concern who lives and acts at the border their concerns are valid however I feel that as people of faith and I agree with Melissa and Michael and other see Mond that our response is people of faith is to address the humanitarian conditions we cannot we can disagree on policy how immigration should be reformed cetera. But we cannot turn away from people who are suffering. Elizabeth Dyess of love to get your sense of the religious landscape of pool of voters in this country one of our listeners Rob tweeted religion is always an inherently political act and we think a lot about the religious right there is a religious left can you talk about the size and influence of these different religious voting blocs sure so we hear so much about the religious right especially since President Trump was campaigning and then won the White House and this rise of of how white evangelicals have by and large just completely attached themselves to him and his agenda is really on the forefront when we think about what the the thrust is how religious blocks of voters are acting and the religious left has been around it's always it's always been there but the power and infrastructure and money that the religious right has built has just far outweighed those same structures on the left and so when we think about something like immigration and we hear all of these stories in that we just listened to in the past few minutes it was notable to me that everyone we heard from was Catholic or pissed couple or Jewish and we were hearing from groups of white evangelicals who were working at the border in the same kind of humor in a minute Terry in ways Alisa we understand that you've seen the divide forming in your church since the last presidential election not entirely immigration related but give us a sense of what that divide looks like. Well I think people are torn. It seems to evolve over time and the concern in the conflict internal conflict people are feeling is growing. I think that prior there was an affiliation to a political party. That's conflicting both on the right and the laughed and I'd like to come back to terminology if we have time but I think that people are feeling. Fear you know they listen to fear based rhetoric coming from political parties and try media and social media and that grows with then and they feel we have to address I want to be humanitarian I want to respond people suffering I'm not a bad person but we have reason to be very very afraid so I can't stand for this I want to walls so I feel safer What was your thought on terminology. So our rhetoric is part of the problem because I'm seeing I do see evangelicals as well as more progressive Christians and and other faith based communities down there I also work very closely with some Baptist people that work with Sister know Norma at the humanitarian respite center. So to paint broad brush. Puts people in categories and in corners where they might come out of them if we weren't doing that so much term. Of people are illegal people are not legally a human being is not illegal. People don't understand the terminology of what is an asylum seeker is versus what a refugee is versus what an immigrant is. And so we lose we use language that categorizes people and puts them in corners and then they don't feel like they can come out of that box very easily and with regard to that terminology that's why a lot of news organizations tend to use the term undocumented immigrants or illegal immigration if there is an act that breaks the law but the person in their humanity is not illegal the thing that they've done might be an undocumented it's just a more precise way to say at least to use that said that the tone also changed last summer when these reports of migrant families being separated 1st broke How have things changed since then. I think they've gone up and down I mean there was last summer. Many many faith groups Muslim Jewish Christian showed up in the border at the border last July when. The dust and the separations of these families was 1st discovered and there was just outrage and there was a lot of unity in that not a lot was done you know people of faith really can't get close to the detention centers there is not a lot we can do except call an address our senators and our representatives and you know how on them for a response but so it kind of you know there was a swell of outrage and then it dies back down because people can't feel helpless and then we see another picture like the man and his 23 month old daughter in the river and those images grab people's heart again when we find out that the number of children in the detention centers is greater than we ever knew. And there are are there are suppose a policy saying we can't separate children anymore but that never stopped up so people the images grab people's heart and there's a surge of no we can't do this anymore but I'm seeing lately more people of faith regardless of the nomination saying wow I just can't justify this in my soul anymore I'm going to step out I may not I'm going to take a chance and take a very safe step forward maybe contribute to the donation drive that we're doing or maybe I can send some financial support to Sister norm or some of the other respite care centers all along the border and I'm seeing more of that starting to happen because this just isn't going away but I do know people feel very very helpless and so if the surge doesn't cause any political change. Dj's or in the changes in the policies in the detention centers it's getting that tends to discourage people and so we've got to keep up the. Pressure to get these centers more humane Elizabeth I'd like to zoom out on this point to a more national perspective when we continue with Elizabeth Dyess from the New York Times and Elisa stabbing of Trinity Episcopal Church in The Woodlands Texas Pew Research finds that 68 percent of white evangelicals do not believe the u.s. Has a responsibility to accept refugees how does that translate politically and what does that mean for everyday people in pews as they close. Some sick children in a Texas detention center outbreaks of scabies shingles and chicken pox were spreading among children were being held in cramped cells to a billionaire's alleged pedophile ring Epstein paid underage girls as young as 14 some massage or higher alive by the news that addicts us what are the options you'll find from on this week's On the media from t.v. When my feet. Sunday at 3 from Delaware Public Media. People are raccoon crazy on this island on the next Radiolab he was a massive lobster in. The lengths that people go to for the animals they love I think he's cute and I think I get a coffee cup with a raccoon on it a snow globe with a record in it people rescuing large lobsters I would have taken my husband's gun and I would have I would have shot let's just say I'm going to run coach this lobster's up in the 1st place Saturdays at 3 w. From Delaware public media Candy's Carty Williams debut novel features a character who has mixed feelings about interracial dating I have done it. Girl we are around a I mean. Everybody knows anything but will say you know like I found it to be. Her book Queenie unpacks all of that can be started next time it's been a minute from n.p.r. . Sunday one from Delhi where public media support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from the Epstein Family Foundation in support of the David Gilkey and Sabila to Monem Oriel fund established to support N.P.R.'s international journalists their coverage and their commitment to providing the news of the world to audiences back home. From the Pew Charitable Trusts committed to improving public policy invigorating civic life and turning indifference into action more information is available at Pew Trust's dot org And from the listeners who support this n.p.r. Station. Before we get back to our conversation a quick word for our newer listeners make sure you join us tomorrow for a weekly tradition the Friday news round up we'll take your questions on some of the week's top stories and look ahead at what's to come this week those stories include a British ambassador's resignation and the fallout for diplomats everywhere will also pay tribute to the boss of boss Innova Brazil's. And we're keeping an eye on the standoff between the u.s. And Iran you can catch the Friday news round up by subscribing to the one a podcast would be honored if you leave us a rating and a review all the links to listen are online at npr dot org slash one egg that's the number one the letter a back now to our conversation with Elizabeth Dyess of the New York Times and Elisa stabbing of Trinity Episcopal Church near Houston we got plenty of comments that we'd like to get to and also some voice mails from some of you on this issue here's a bit of what you left in our inbox this is Celeste I'm a member of the 1st United Methodist Church of Germantown in Philadelphia we are currently protecting 2 families in sanctuary they are living in our church and have been with us since August we feel this is part of our mission to do justice and love mercy and we will continue to protect these precious people until their cases are reviewed and hopefully one day they can live in freedom here this is Phil from Michigan I know were brought forth to stand up and pumped or just to say look at me you will call carry turning to as I am driving always you legal way we had come into the country and are all going to have a better life but they never tell you because. Illegal immigration decimate or to be educated America I'm starting to realize the silence is not the same as neutrality and in many cases it's responsible for me as a pastor to actually voice how the Gospel winds up with things facing our world today I may seem political it's caused a lot of disruption in the circles of community that I walk in but my wife and I both feel like it's an opportunity for us to stand up for what we believe and make a difference in a very tangible way thanks very much for sharing your thoughts with us we'll get some more of them in just a 2nd but Elizabeth let's zoom out a little bit with regards to the way faith groups have dealt with this crisis there was wide condemnation of the family separation policy at the border last year what reaction have you seen to some of the newer immigration policies well even with the wide condemnation of the policy last year things that I heard in my reporting were even though. The white Evan jell call conservative political side leaders would condemn it in the end they stood behind the president and his policies so it it wasn't a consistent narrative an ethic within how they live their religious lives and how they were living their political lives and so the big picture really. It's a cultural one I mean I keep finding people around the country are asking you know themselves what's the Bible really about what's it not about what is politics about the Bible and what is actual faith about it and so now some of the most well one of the most recent actions we saw last week with the administration issuing fines up to half a $1000000.00 for immigrants who were in sanctuary in churches like the caller from Philadelphia just mentioned that they had people living in their church and so. In . That case we're seeing faith leaders and pastors and lawyers trying to come up with you know what do we do in this case you know we've been dealing with the border crisis in this whole set of court made ways but now we have we have immigrants waiting for their appeals cases and they're being fined hundreds of thousands of dollars so they're going to come up with new strategies because they don't really know the administration's next step you reported last year about the divide that the immigration issue was causing among white evangelical women who did this have a tangible effect in the midterms Yes And you know it's one of the parts of this whole development that I'm most fascinated about because. It's like Elisa was saying the the margins like the attic where is the edge of where the community is like why haven't all calls that we think of as a voting bloc where is there a change where is that starting to shift at all and I see that most of the time with women and I saw it in Texas with the white evangelical women who had voted for President Trump and then because of the family separations and because of this rhetoric that they were seeing in these actions that they just said it was fundamentally not Christian they were going to vote for them and then for better O'Rourke who ultimately didn't win Senator Ted Cruz won his re-election so did it make do things like that make a tangible change in the politics maybe not in the outcome of that election but that the cultural conversation is changing I want to get more into the way that religious communities are discussing this with the faith like what verse floored and at least I'd love to hear from you how you get into kind of the weeds of all this Roy emailed the beginning of Romans Chapter 13 tells us how important it is to follow the laws of the governmental authorities no matter who's in office so break God's laws. To help or watch grind your teeth and pray roar you are correct but incomplete Romans 13 does indeed begin with let everyone be subject to the governing authorities for there is no authority except that which God has established the authorities that exist have been established by God and reading from the New International Version by the way however Romans Chapter 13 verse 8 says Let no debt remain outstanding except the continuing debt to love one another for whoever loves others has fulfilled the Law Love does no harm to a neighbor therefore love is the fulfillment of the law Elisa stabbing I could see that turning into a really nasty bible thumping fight. Well yes it is in you know we're in midcourse on that bible thumping fight right now. But I but you are right to continue on. The verse the verse is there in chapter 13 of Romans and throughout history you can see how people can and any any issue can use the Bible to further their cause or their stance on something but but you know Jesus also stood up to authorities when it came down to human beings and to people and how they were being treated. You know the law it was the law to. Arrest and and torture Jews in Germany it was the law to do many things that we have done to each other around the world so yes you can just cringe and grit your teeth and pray but there are times when even Jesus demonstrated that no you've got to stand up for God's law when he 1st and Oh good good how you Ok how one does that. Needs to be tempered right I mean you don't return violence with violence but I do think it's a humanitarian issue that was this was talking about where it gets down to individual people who say I no longer can deal with the conflict I'm feeling with my faith beliefs which is pretty much the core of a human being I can not stand that conflict in me anymore and it is individuals that are stepping up and saying can't do this anymore I need to address the issue of separation of families the issue of these children needing treatment and care and whatever my political leanings are this is baseline for me I need to care for another human being with regards to that Elizabeth Jonathan tweeted my multi racial Church in Orlando hasn't addressed the border crisis at all my perception is this is political not wanting to upset conservative members to me social justice is a critical part of Christianity and this Miss is unsettling to the point I might leave the church I have been hearing people leaving their churches to happen so slowly it's so hard to see when it's not like we're seeing the mass exodus the people shifting but the it's true I hear from past mostly pastors when I asked White evangelical pastors about this and and they're peeling back the curtain a little bit about what they're facing they'll they'll talk about the the challenges of donors in comes in tithing I mean. What they're going to speak out on will have but you know an effect on their own employment if they're tithing giving tithing rather it comes giving your income to the church and so there's a concern you know if you if you've got a congregation that has mixed views and maybe the conservative ones are donating more money what do you do. With regards to the way the church is given humanitarian ways there was a reported 2017 by the Texas interfaith center that showed that faith groups gave nearly as much aid after hurricane Harvey as the state did the state of Texas provided 250000000 faith groups provided 216000000 and a half 1000000 volunteer hours it's interesting and I wonder how you see this in your congregation the difference between the way people feel about providing aid based on what they are aiding. Absolutely I'd agree with with Elizabeth and you know for Harvey and Houston that was a huge We're still feeling the impacts of that we're still having to rebuild from that. A natural disaster was something that was local and our faith communities in the Houston area and all of Texas responded very quickly and very immediately and gave a lot to gave of their time gave their efforts and gave of their money. That's a neutral. There's some neutrality about that kind of issue than something like immigration when there's when you can think of people coming across the border as the other. Bishops put out a statement yesterday of all 6 of his diocese in the state of Texas and these bishops cover the spectrum of conservative to more progressive political takes that they all came together to to cry to use to make a statement about the conditions on the borders. And I think that that is going to really help because I have seen as it was this that I have seen in our congregations people leaving because there's not a direct addressing this situation that they're very upset about I'm glad you mentioned diocesan leadership because Carol Elizabeth Carol wrote on Twitter where are the u.s. Catholic Bishops why aren't they calling for a national Catholic volunteer response to the humanitarian crisis why aren't they flooding sister Norma with resources house we heard from the u.s. Conference of Catholic Bishops on this I get emails with their press releases and they do often whenever there's like a new event at the border with. With family separations or. With with raids these kinds of things I'll hear a statement and it will. We'll talk about the church standing with immigrants and standing by neighbors but it is different from how they handle the issue of abortion where there is you know lobbying behind the scenes in Washington of that and more direct. The leaders are being very vocal about much more what kind of policy they want to see and so it's been it's attention right now within the Catholic Church I think there's a lot of attention by what's happening with white evangelicals but there is a tension with white Catholics many of whom are conservative I was just going to ask you about why do you enjoy locals because there seems to be a split that's growing I mean a few weeks ago there were some more Who is this prominent Southern Baptist who criticized President Trump's immigration policy that drew some public criticism from Jerry Falwell Jr who is the president of Liberty University which is a Christian university in Virginia founded by his father the late Jerry Falwell I wonder if it's getting harder for even Joe locals to defend President Trump and if this creates an opening for some Democrats in 2020. It might Democrats are starting to think about that the spot that you're mentioning between Russell Moore and Jerry Falwell was so notable because. You know the division between those 2 men and the constituencies they represent there it's been happening since President Trump started his campaign and what happened was that in the end white evangelicals as a political bloc were much more in line with Jerry Falwell there were more of them and the Russell more contingents was was more like what we've seen of the white of angelical in the past like of the George w. Bush era we should also note that some of the Democratic hopefuls are working to win over these religious voters Cory Booker cure brand people to judge they've all made plays for religious voters Elizabeth Warren called the 2020 election a righteous fight people to judge was on. The View back in March Here's part of what he said I do think there are the stirrings out there in our country right now of a religious left that understands that not living your faith might also have to do with paying more attention to those most in need that's right and not celebrating those who already have the most wealth of the most power but with South Bend Indiana Mayor people judge speaking on The View back in March Elise our time is short but I want to get to one more question from a listener Danielle asked I'd like to hear the minister talk more about how she deals with the divisions within her congregation how does she keep the peace Lisa. I keep the peace and it's been some hard work I mean I've had to make very intentional efforts to meet with people and talk with them but I find that when you get with someone one on one you know I have these coffee conversations with people you find there are so many similarities that it is easier to talk and discuss this when you know a face a name and I think the work for people of faith in their churches although it's a lot more time consuming a lot more will not be a fast fix is to be in relationship with each other to talk to find out what you have in common and you find out that concern and care is there when you take down the barriers between each other and quit politicizing where you're I can't talk to you because you're a public and I can't talk to you because you're a Democrat we have to knock that down and see each other our selves as sheep and beings before we can have a humanitarian response at the border we have to be humanitarian to each other and that does take very very intentional work it's discouraging work it's hard work but it's necessary Alisa Stebbing and Episcopalian political minister from the woodlands near Houston the minister of outreach and youth formation at Trinity Episcopal Church Lisa thanks for talking to us I'm glad to be here thank you so much for having me and Elizabeth Dyess national correspondent for The New York Times covering faith and politics Elizabeth a. Very much thank you so much this conversation was produced by James Morrison in collaboration with our partner station Houston Public Media special thanks to its reporter Elizabeth true Vol one a Across America is funded in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting please to keep the conversation going on our Facebook page and on Twitter you can also check out pictures of our trip to the border on Twitter at one a and online at the one a dot org this program comes to you from am you part of American University in Washington distributed by n.p.r. Until we meet again I'm Joshua Johnson thanks for listening and will see you tomorrow for the Friday news round up this is one a. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from the estate of Brenna and Irving Sisson wine supporting the collaborative news gathering model of n.p.r. 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Zoe Chace Ira Glass So you went to Iowa I didn't you know there are like 50000 Democratic candidates running for president they're all in Iowa it's where it's 25 right now it's 25 right now and there's this one political writer Dave Weigel with The Washington Post he writes this newsletter thing called the trailer 3 times a week and he has this particular superpower we're somehow he seems to be with every single candidate who's running at the exact same time so at this moment where everything seems like this grand 25 ring circus with this race he seemed like maybe the very best person in the world to watch this with when there's a next president will have seen every moment not skipping anything hopefully he will understand why it happened and so you basically wanted to see the whole election all at once the way he does yeah and so crazy traveling through primary states with him like he knows these places so well like in Iowa we pulled up to a gas station I had to rank Iowa gas stations I think. Quick trip and come and go then Casey's. Wait so what's so great about quite sure. That. The current ones the ones that are fairly new ones there are some that are have been there for probably the new ones of this one I think it might be have. High quality lids that are like. High quality plastic as opposed to the thing that just like breaks well after one yet lives and you mind this is like the only taste I'm going to have for.