6 hours g.m.t. Welcome to Weekend. President of the u.s. Justice Department intensifies with reports of the deputy attorney general was plotting to remove him. But there's a lingering should we're going to get rid of that. Uniting to speak out against China on human rights abuses in what is happening in the. Cultural Revolution. Has been. And should marriage proposals be made public it would be for the whole program I. Don't know any journalist and author and founder of the National Parenting organization in the u.k. And 10 we choose American journalist and international editor of Variety magazine here. First the world news. Hello I'm David Harper with the b.b.c. News the us deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein has dismissed as factually incorrect a report that he conspired to remove President Trump from office the reports in The New York Times also said that Mr Rosenstein raised the possibility of taping Mr Trump as part of plans to show he was mentally unfit with more details has a Washington correspondent Chris Buckley President Trump has been speaking about it at that rally here in Missouri and he didn't mention Rod Rosenstein specifically but he did talk about the f.b.i. And the Department of Justice he said there were many good people there but there is a lingering stench and we're going to get rid of it he didn't mention wrote Rosenstein but he did mention apartment of justice and it gives you a sense that they could be more divisions as a result of what has been alleged by the New York Times the chairman of the u.s. Senate Judiciary Committee says he has granted the woman accusing Supreme Court nominee Brad Kavanagh of sexual assaults more time to decide when to testify earlier truck Chuck Grassley had set a deadline of Friday evening for Dr Ford to confirm that she would give evidence before the Senate on Wednesday. The United Nations age chief says agencies are losing the fight against famine in Yemen and that the situation has deteriorated rapidly recently Mark Locata told the Security Council that 3 and a half 1000000 people could soon be added to the 8 millions already facing starvation in Yemen we may now be approaching a tipping point beyond which it will be impossible to prevent massive loss of life as a result of widespread famine across the country we are already seeing pockets of famine like conditions including cases where people are eating leaves because they have no other form of sustenance the Norwegian government is spending more than $12000000.00 to safeguard a facility in the Arctic dedicated to preserving the world's sea. Odds against the growing threat of global warming can't win or reports the thought 1 about the bank known as the doomsday vault is located on a remote archipelago about 800 miles from the North Pole it has the capacity to hold more than 2000000003 examples and is intended to ensure food security the future generations but a sharp rise in temperatures means that the region is receiving more snow and rain than anticipated when the subterranean vault was built 10 years ago as a result water has been sleeping into the mountainside access tunnel the problem is that the pose no threat to the sea themselves the United States has announced it's preparing a series of actions against the Venezuelan government and the parents hardening of its stance against the leadership of President Nicolas Maduro the u.k. The us has already imposed sanctions on President Maduro and other senior officials accusing them of violating human rights and oppression oppressing the opposition Mr Madeira says the u.s. Is leading a campaign to destabilize the economy. Well news from the b.b.c. Twitter has told an un it disclose number of its users that private messages may have been leaks to 3rd parties for more than a year the social media giant said the software bug involved direct messages between users and businesses that offer customer services via Twitter the company said it had resolved the issue immediately after discovering it earlier this month a woman who was apparently taken ill in a restaurant in the English city of souls Bree where a nerve agent killed a woman earlier this year has insisted she was not involved in a hoax and a Shapiro and her partner Alex King were taken to hospital after becoming unwell and the area was sealed off by emergency services Richard Lester reports the emergency services declared a major incident after the couple appeared to become unwell at an Italian restaurant on Sunday the Police later said they found no evidence of Novacek the nerve agent which contaminated 4 people in the area earlier this year including the former Russian spy service cripple and Dawn Sturges who died as a result Mr Pirro who was born in Russia has now released a statement denying media speculation that she'd been involved in a hoax. Peru's Ministry of Culture has put on display more than 700 cultural artifacts recovered from museums around the world many of the objects some of which date back to the country's great pre-Columbian civilizations have been smuggled out of the country in the last 2 decades the objects include looms pottery textiles and paintings one significant exhibits returned from Germany is a ceremonial gold mask with silver eyes dating back to pre Incan times and Iran television is reporting that unknown gunmen have opened fire on a military parade in the southern city of fires a number of soldiers are reported to have been killed that's the latest world news from the b.b.c. . It's 6 o 6 g.m.t. Welcome to Weekend from the b.b.c. World Service with me James Kim our summit coming up later is it a good idea to propose marriage in public perhaps in front of millions of people and I want to put this ring that my mom or on your finger in front of all these people and in front of my mom and your parents watching from above. Will you marry me. You have to find out if you want to know the answer but later in the program well our spoiler actually Glenn Weiss did propose successfully to his girlfriend at the Emmy Awards in Los Angeles where the more heartwarming stories we'll be discussing on the program with my 2 guests Christina donee the Italian born journalist and author who's found of the National Parenting organization here in the u.k. And Henry choose an American journalist an international editor for Variety magazine a magazine based in London we'll have more from both them later but welcome back to the program both of you we're going to start with more reports of trouble deep within the heart of the trumpet ministration because the u.s. Deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein has denied media reports that he had been plotting to remove President Trump from office the New York Times citing anonymous sources also said that Mr Rosenstein had suggested secretly recording the president in order to expose chaos within the White House while his Mr Trump at a rally in Missouri on Friday speaking about the justice department headed by Jeff Sessions and Rod Rosenstein we have great people in the Department of Justice we have great people these are people I really believe you take a poll I got to be at 95 percent but he had some real bad ones you seen what happened at the f.b.i. They're all gone they're all gone they're all. Of them but there is a lingering. Stan should we're going to get rid of that to. Be speaking to Daniel Lippman a journalist for Politico in Washington d.c. So what is the thrust of what the New York Times had to say well the main thrust of the Times story is that Rosenstein discussed secretly taking President Trump in meetings at the White House and also discussed whether to invoke or try to get other cabinet members to invoke the 25th Amendment which would remove Trump through a secret gathering of the entire cabinet and these rumors have been out there before the 25th Amendment rumors in recent books in an article but allegedly coming from Rob Rosenstein takes on a new heft I guess yet Trump has already attacked Rosenstein over the last year and a half that he's been in that job and of course Rosenstein plays an important role in overseeing the bowler investigation because Jeff Sessions the attorney general who Trump has also attacked the had to recuse himself because he was a key supporter of Trump's campaign in 2016 and so the thinking goes if Trump fires Rosenstein or sessions or both of them then that could imperil the Moeller investigation and so a lot of Democrats and many Republicans they always urged Trump not to do that because that would be seen as a bridge too far yet President Trump has made an oblique reference to to them during a run in Missouri has me yes it was you know not very direct it looks like Trump already has enough problems on his hands with Brett Kavanaugh and his nomination which seems to be going one way one day he's going to get confirmed the next day he's facing a lot of trouble Trump doesn't want to create more fires given that although he likes chaos. Yes ridiculous in terms of the amount of however she said ETOPS at this rally didn't about a lingering stench at the Justice Department as you say he has repeatedly criticized Rosenstein his boss Jeff Sessions I think his most recent comments that he said something I don't have an attorney general what is then preventing him from far in the mist is the comments of the the Republicans around him I mean he is always said to be pretty much his own man isn't a has are and his advisors I'm also convinced that this would be a terrible move that this would create a lot more problems for Trump only for it because it will look like he is interfering in the polar investigation and destruction of justice however presents itself is he now their crime and you let in there from Politico So the latest chapter in a long running story Christine and your reflections Well it certainly proves Bob Woodward's point in his book that there's a there there's a group of plotting Patriots in the White House who are the resistance yes who are trying to protect the country from from Mr Trump. But he follows also the familiar pattern there is these incredible allegations followed by hyperbolic denials from Mr Trump you know the lingering stench. Followed by acceptance and that is what seems like extraordinary you know so many people have. Come away from the White House so many people have been fired from the White House and yet. There is a mood of acceptance in the country possibly not in New York possibly not in l.a. But the country as a whole I feel we have to go back to that to that 1st quote from the Chinese American Chamber of Commerce unemployment is at a record low they call him he set a record high. Henry Yeah the 1st thing I'd like to point out here is that particularly as myself a member of the journalistic establishment and Christina you are as well that the mainstream media that Donald Trump labels as the enemy of the people is the one who brought this story to light right it wasn't Fox News it wasn't Breitbart or any of the other favored media outlets of this administration so for I'd like to just make that point but I also do wonder the agenda behind those who would be leaking this information on the one hand you could say it's Trump's enemies who want to show that there is further disarray inside the administration on the other I think there is a real danger that this could be a reason used by President Trump to fire Rosenstein and to somehow put a lid on the Russian investigation and that could be dangerous for him absolutely as Lippmann Mr Lippman said earlier all clip for we are of course in election season the midterm election is coming up pretty soon and if you listen to the President Trump and his allies they are they are pushing the idea that if the Democrats take control of both houses that could be impeachment proceedings and I mean it unlikely that we're going to get anything like the numbers they would need me in the Senate bot. Could do all this work in his favor electorally Well it certainly from Trump's point of view supports his idea that there is a deep state that there is a very. Entrenched resistance to him that's trying to undermine him and his agenda I don't know how many people outside of his diehard base believe that but he does have a very die hard base of support who will follow him regardless I think impeachment it is a very difficult question and whether there's an actual appetite for it in amongst lawmakers we'll have to see what what comes after the November elections. To pick up your point of standing in the economy stupid perhaps is is a is a better message then is it during these elections I have to say I have met too many Americans and actually people around the world who say and at the end of the day if I've got more money in my pocket because x. Is president or prime minister that's what matters and and I and I think it's a very cynical way of looking at politics but it might be a very realistic perspective on this we your trying to take a more realistic perspective on parenting at the moment aren't you your your new project is this national parenting organization as I understand the idea is we often hear about you know the child being sort of pushed out of the nest the bird being pushed out of the nest but actually it's true for the parents as well the parent gets a lot of supports in the during the pregnancy the parents during the pregnancy during the early stage of the infancy and then you're left on your own Absolutely and I have to say as somebody who came to motherhood with idealistic and romantic vision even I thought lonely confused overwhelmed I mean by goodness even the Duchess of Cambridge has admitted to having felt challenged by motherhood and that's with nannies chauffeurs and and chefs. Parenting needs our support because when there is poor parenting we get the you know the mental health problems with young people we get exclusions from schools because they're pulling a knife on a teacher you know the consequences of poor parenting effect of sorts or how how do you teach parenting. Well don't you know. You don't teach parenting what we have found is because I went up and down the country and that is this country Britain looking at how parenting classes work and the way that they work is the group dynamic and I hate to draw comparisons with a and then a but that is the same principle the group teaches you that you know Holly is a Narcotics Anonymous exactly right Parents Anonymous parents are not. What the group can teach you is by experience so if you have been feeling guilty because you blew your top in front of your toddler to hear that James and Henry did the same makes you feel a huge lot of relief and the group also teaches you that actually counting to 10 before you blow your top is a good thing so there's new preachiness we have trained local mentors who Holst parent group discussions in informal settings you know it could be a coffee shop it could be a church hall it could be a private home and we just keep supporting the parents allowing them to bring to the table all their angsty all their worries because I don't think you know we talk about poor parenting but there's no one who's evil there's no one who's wicked they all want their best they just need a little bit of help along the way that appeal to you Henry Well I'm not a parent I have to say that Uncle ing is the easiest and most enjoyable job of all very rewarding yes. All the jury and none of the worms or the diapers your your someone who in your current role travels far and wide have other glamorous spots on the film festivals that sort of thing Venice has been a recent destination tell us about that that is my favorite festival of the ones that I go to here in Europe which also included cannon and Berlin and I think part of that is because Venice. Tough job isn't it. Someone's got to lead the Venice particularly I think it's a pure joy because it is a public festival and so moviegoers from around the community and from farther afield can come and enjoy the films and the line up that they have had at the Venice Film Festival over the last few years has been stellar the artistic director there has really done a great job in terms of getting high profile and high quality films and I think that this now particularly at the beginning of September is essentially the unofficial kickoff of the awards season and everybody wants that all important statuette you know at the end and of this process and so high profile films which this year were things like 1st man about Neil Armstrong and the race to get to the moon or a star is born they all came to Venice Can I just ask is a star is born with going to because I've got a young one who is not about Lady Gaga Well Lady Gaga can act and Bradley Cooper can sing Who would have thought I love it I live Variety review of a film potted review here on Weekend. Not to cost too much a shot over over what is surely it was a fine experience for you but the the me too movement still obviously. Is there isn't it I know that that was very much present when people were considering which films with their Venice Well the meaty movement in terms of harassment is very present and that's been true at all the festivals this year they've all wanted to tackle the issue by having hot lines or having panel discussions about how to eliminate this problem in the industry I think a corollary to that is how women are or are not represented as filmmakers at these festivals and Venice does have a problem at least optically as they say because on female director out of $21.00 in the official competition line up and that was true last year as well even can which gets criticized as more than that so there's something systemic here because fewer films by women are submitted That's absolutely true but it also is incumbent upon I think the festival directors to try to go out and seek the good films by a diverse range of makers to bring to their events and their thing a thanks very much for the moment to turn now though to the sports news because Andy Barr wells here and we're going to talk about boxing heavyweight title fight and maybe we can shed a little light on why there's not just one world champion but lots of them it is get a little confusing it's on now tonight's big clash will take place at Wembley Stadium in London it sees the world champion Anthony Joshua take on Alexander Povetkin Now Joshua house full versions of the world heavyweight title all up the stakes to b.b.a. W. I.p.f. And be open els he has a big weight advantage 2 stone or 12 kilograms more than the challenger and also has a substantial haunted vantage to now we asked Tony value a former world cruiserweight champion not one division below the heavyweight division for his thoughts on what might happen in Joshua Kane the Russian who has twice failed drug tests always on the back of a let's just be straight not a should not be even in this fight should we think for a 4th. Faceplates all because of governing bodies and sanctioning bodies from the only reason the strikes taken place on City show on the charts you wouldn't choose to face all it from the back and a lot across the scale and on a lot because you can she get really a fight that goes on to the show not your face anybody so you know why would you want to face a cheat if you are. So into Natasha has 4 of those main would have you wait titles the American Dion say wow the whole it's the faith that's the w.b.c. The World Boxing Council crown timing by his promoter overnight to announce that Walter will take I'm pretty spoke to Tyson theory on December the 1st to have got a venue for that fight yet but I don't have a comes out on top would almost certainly be in line to fight the winner of tonight's big fight the division then would have a unified world champion that's not happened for a long long time money Amanda defenses are the reasons behind that I tell you else has numb for a long long time Liverpool winning the title in football in England the Premier League was installed there today was Chelsea top of the table at the moment but Liverpool Chelsea play until tomorrow so little can go clear they're looking to make 6 straight wins and it looks relatively straightforward game on paper anyway against Southampton it and fill the form of striker Mohammed some of there is coming under the spotlight he was the winner of the Premier League Golden Boot last season for being the top scorer but he's only found the back in a couple of times they say campaign not scored in the last 3 matches other response by told is that he doesn't seem too concerned we don't expect about a baby want to score him as often as possible that's all it is but that's completely normal Wow that's a crisis so nobody remembers that so that's how it is it's really no problem so that's clubs Liverpool side have a great result when they fought back to snatch that late winner in the Champions League against p.s.v. In mid wake of the Premier League champions Manchester City last. To another French side in lay on manager Pep Guardiola says that after a defeat the next game is the most important thing for the Premier League champions today they're away one of the promoted sides Cardiff City Andy thanks very much and the bar well there where all the Emmy Awards for the best television shows were held in Los Angeles on Monday evening the director Glenn vice won an Emmy for his work on the televised Oscars ceremony he immediately clade claim to an award next year in a previously on recognized category best marriage proposal on live television Thanks Jan you are the sunshine in my life you wonder why I don't like to call you my girlfriend. Because I want to call you my wife 1000 I want to put this ring that my mom or on your finger in front of all these people and in front of my mom and your parents watching. Yes of course she said Yes Susie Hayman is a u.k. Based relationship expert and counselor here are her thoughts on Glenn's proposal. It was wonderful because it was so obviously a mutual decision and I think they talked about it and I mean you know there was a new that they wanted to get married it was putting her on the spots it was a genuine love in these people live in the spotlight anyway and so why not propose . If you're going to do it publicly for heaven's sakes make sure you know what their answers got. And also think about your motives because if your motive in fact is to deliberately put somebody on the spot to almost blackmail them to put them in a situation where they might feel more humiliated by saying yes that is unfair and that really is saying with something rather nasty in that relationship I mean that's why there is a study that shows that marriages are full of public proposals are more likely to end to break up the setting up situation if you go when you have a look at some of the films people being in public you do through with some of. These days we don't want the situation where he's the one who's making all the decisions that's not good in a relationship it might have been you know 10200 years ago when the idea was that he went to the father basically say Can I have your property how do you have the property to me and then I will go to. In other words it was that whole transaction was about something without her control. Morning marriages did. Susie Heyman u.k. Based relationship expert and counselor accompanied by the theme appropriate song of Bruno Mars with Mary you know I have a sense we have spent not long together just on our side but I think about a couple of romantics in front of me haven't I hear Christina Absolutely I love the schmaltz amidst the bling bling of the t.v. Celebrity circuit I mean it was just brilliant and and also not a more serious point you know here is you know all the headlines are about the divorce they did the divorces the cohabitation soaring the numbers of people you know in break ups you know. It's everywhere and here we had a little moment of true room I thought it was just such fun on I think Hollywood is a complete perv a are from out of spite what conservative critics say about its liberal values destroying the family or doing otherwise immoral things on national television and something that was also beamed around the world you had a very traditional. Outcome of some man proposing to a woman of course it would have been more bigger news had it been the other way around but still it was romantic I just love the idea of what this commentator said that there have been enough of these public proposals that there could have been a study already about how these rights are just last or don't as the case may be yes and I love the thought of it putting someone on the spot I hadn't even thought that perhaps she might have said well actually no and as a journalist I love asking people tough questions and often in public settings like press conferences but I would not have the nerve to do ask a question like that in a public setting No it was well it was a moment wasn't it I mean Christine I know you've written. You know he's that thing that was interesting was that they were an older couple as well I think you know you it was there was something yes go on your head. And I just say as somebody who proposed too many times but the only time she said yes to was at age 43. It's it's fantastic to see how the old sixty's is now fifty's the fifty's is now forty's you can now propose in your fifty's in your sixty's and still hope for that fairy tale romance wonderful Now if you used to be buried a story in there about how many different marriage proposals Christina I don't mean the brother that we have talked yes maybe off off off mike maybe we'll talk about that his day Stay with us by the Henry Christina thanks very much still with us here on Weekend on the b.b.c. Well said. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service in the u.s. Has made possible by American Public Media producer and distributor of award winning public radio content a.p.m. American Public Media with support from Carbonite offering data protection solutions for business including automatic backup for servers and point protection high availability and disaster recovery and data migration more and more at Carbonite dot com. Saturday and Weekend Edition the latest of the Capitol hearings and the story of a man who spent 27 years in prison for crime he didn't commit Golf Digest became interested in his case because of his sketches of golf courses and today I want to know Dixon is a free man his story Saturday and Weekend Edition from n.p.r. News. This morning at 8 o'clock on w. D.d.e. Delaware Public Media. 6 It's 630 g.m.t. And this is we can from the b.b.c. World. Still to come academics around the world uniting to speak out against human rights abuses in the Chinese province of Shin jank and the irresistible year of human food waste why seagulls are leaving the sea to live closer to us that's all here on the weekend with me James Kim our song the 1st a summary of World News b.b.c. News with Jerry Smit the us deputy attorney general Rosenstein has dismissed as factually incorrect a report that he planted to remove President Trump from office the report in The New York Times also said that Mr Rosenstein raised the possibility of taping the president as part of plans to show he was mentally unfit Mr Trump says there's a lingering stench about what is being exposed to the u.s. Justice Department. The woman who claims she was sexually assaulted by President Trump Supreme Court nominee has been given more time to decide whether she will testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee it comes after Christine Blasi forward lawyer rejected an earlier deadline for her to give evidence calling it aggressive and artificial state media in Iran saying number of people have been killed in an attack on a military parade in the southwestern city of others is that unknown gunmen opened fire from behind the stand reports are still coming in the United Nations a chief has warned that more than a 3rd of Yemen's population now face starvation mode local told the u.n. Security Council there were already pockets of famine like conditions in Yemen where a Saudi led coalition is fighting the Hooty rebels backed by Iran. A federal court in the United States has rolled to the commerce secretary will the Ross must submit to formal examination over plans to introduce a citizenship question into the 2020 sensors and number of states are suing the trouble ministration over the proposal which for the 1st time would allow the census together information on whether or not respondents are u.s. Citizens. The Norwegian government is spending more than $12000000.00 to safeguard a vessel it in the Arctic dedicated to preserving the world seeds against the growing threat of global warming the facilities store seeds from around 40 percent of the world's plant species b.b.c. News. You're listening to Weekend from the b.b.c. World Service with James Tamara Sami and coming up later why seagulls are becoming a common sight in our cities and why that may be disturbing their arrival in our company doing things that in many ways we might approve of as indications of successful human endeavor things like being on trip an aerial things like being arriving in a new place and colonizing it things like being able to make a living out of the rough and tumble of modern life we've decided or many of us have decided we find rather threatening. To people who have swooped into this studio in a very on threatening undisturbed ing friendly way are our guests for this program to be with us until the end of the program Christina Dhoni who is an Italian born journalist and author and founder of the National Parenting organization here in the u.k. And Henry chewin American journalist and international editor for Variety magazine based in London or u.k. Citizen you reveal to us a little earlier Henry so American British That's right that happened about 5 years ago and I think I mentioned earlier in the program that I just had my 10 year anniversary of living here in London which is right thank you which is the longest place I've lived in as an adult so that seems like some kind of milestone in my life is indeed a man who's flitted around you've been to many places you would Beijing where else you've been based in also for the Los Angeles Times I was based in Rio de Janeiro New Delhi and then that was what brought me here to London ultimately excellent Well we're going to talk international now with you Christina because one of the things you want to use you're planning a conference on behalf of the British Council the Royal United Services Institute for young leaders from various countries tell us a bit about that it's called Youth peace and security it's going to be held on the 18th of October and yes it's co-hosted by the British Council and the Royal United Services Institute which is a mouthful for Russi. And it's. Been an amazing journey for me because we are bringing to London young Syrians Ukrainians stonie and slid through Ania NZ and French leaders who have been active in building peace in their own communities and in Syria for instance we have are coming from Syria we have a young man who is identifying the real grassroots community leaders whether they be in Mom's or. Did the wise midwife of the village who can come to the peace table the peace talks table and actually represent the Syrian ordinary people in a way that none of the signatories have done in the past and he thinks this is really really important in order to make a fruitful discussion we have a young a stone and woman who has set up a. A program called super heroes and she grabs she would she invites 13 to 18 year old girls in his tenure including in the most rural bits and she invites them to workshops for 4 months where they learn skills like communications and leadership they have a mentor assigned to them so that they can really learn self-confidence and and those you know those soft skills that make them much more employers will but not only much more employers will much more proud to be who they are and what you think bringing these different nationalities together brings We think that the world is at a very. Difficult. A difficult moment and these young people are actually doing things to make life easier and more more inclusive for their communities surely their experiences once shared could be inspiring to. Others from from Britain from France from from Germany so I mean all sharing and also inspiring to the to the older generation the ones who are actually wielding power at the moment I agree completely and I think that one of the most interesting aspects of this imposing is that it's going to be led by the young people they get that they get to talk they get to teach and your thoughts will only connect I think in force or set and that's can only be a good thing for society now in a time where ironically we're all more connected than ever through cyberspace anyway but many societies are retreating into themselves or becoming more insular and so I think this idea of getting particularly young people who are our future as the cliche goes together in a room to be able to share and to cross those physical boundaries that would have kept them apart before I think would be extremely valuable I think it's going to be amazing and you know young people represent the biggest demographic cohort right now there are you know they are there are more young people today than there ever were as a proportion of the world population so they really are our future and I want to talk Henry about one aspect of your book the you know films we've talked a little bit about films which talks about the Emmys ceremony and what happened there but a sort of sad and rather mysterious story really I know you've been looking at a Chinese very prominent Chinese actress who well who is no longer prominent who's disappeared that's right that's fun being being who is probably China's most famous and richest actress hasn't been heard from for a couple of months now and the speculation is that she might be under a form of house arrest or some other kind of detention by the Chinese authorities because of a tax evasion scandal that she's been caught up in where she's been accused of using double contracts one that she reports to the tax authorities and the other one that actually reflects how. She's being paid that that practice in the Chinese entertainment industry is not uncommon but the authorities are cracking down on it which is you know perfectly understandable and the fact though that that fund has completely vanished has been of some concern to the projects that she's already committed to. We were talking a lot about China I think in this program from various points of view and the way that the government there exercises power and there is an old Chinese saying that says you kill the monkey to scare the chickens and I think it's very common there for my own experience of having lived and reported there that the government likes to take someone to make them a public example as a deterrent to others and so if they're able to do that with the biggest profile actress who really actually has a world following funding being they can do that to anyone where we're going to stick with China now because and you know it's not dissimilar theme because the u.n. Committee on the elimination of racial discrimination has said reports that an estimated 1000000 Muslims in China should John province of being held in a vast network of camps where they're forced to eat pork drink alcohol against their religion of course sing songs praising the Communist Party and to attend daily reeducation sessions the mostly members of the week a minority and they're being held without charge nobody to kill of the week a Human Rights Project in Washington d.c. Described their situation to the b.b.c. Imagine that you go to church on Sunday and the government stops you and make you to go through Iris and body scans and imagine that you get up on one morning and the government wants you to marry off your daughter imagine that you don't have anyone to confide with even in your private life and imagine that you were forced to denounce your religion and walk away from you a centuries old tradition such as the Weavers So what is happening in the homeland East Turkistan is a cultural revolution. In steroids the Chinese government has been so brutal particularly in light last 1618 months locked up more than 10 percent the population according to various reports on Thursday a Chinese foreign ministry official said that booming tourism in Sion junk showed that nothing untoward was happening there and this is a difficult issue to cover because China restricts foreign media access to the province and it discourages discussion we've actually had guests here on the b.b.c. World Service have specified in advance they don't want to be asked about the subject well now a group of academics has formed the shin Jiang initiative hoping to unite scholars and other public figures in highlighting the situation one of those academics is Kevin Carrick He teaches Chinese studies at McQuarrie University in Sydney Australia and joins us now Kevin welcome to Weekend here on the b.b.c. World Service It has been a very difficult story to cover so how accurate a picture given the lack of access is granted to to outside or thought do we have a what's happening in. Well thank you very much for having me on and for taking the time to er discuss this very difficult but very important topic now it's of course extremely difficult to know precisely what is happening in soon John. And this is a situation that unfortunately the Chinese government uses very much to its advantage because on the one hand the government blocks academics and journalists from visiting the area. Well on the other hand the government says well what do you know about sin Junge if you haven't been there on the ground so it creates a very much a catch 22 situation wherein the government is represented as the only legitimate voice so however how you trying to change that conversation oh a number of. Academics journalists and other researchers have however been doing outstanding research that have put together a very clear picture that something very disturbing is happening in sin John today . There have been leaked documents from the Public Security Bureau that say that over a 1000000 people are being held indefinitely. Adrian Zen's a researcher in Germany has looked at recruitment notices and building bids to show that there's been a rapid uptick in hiring you security guards and building these types of campus Illit East and Sean John a student in British Columbia has actually use satellite imagery to begin to identify these various reeducation camps or as I prefer to call them concentration camps and runs and the figures mean a 1000000 that's the estimate it's a huge amount over what time period have these been set up. According to my understanding. The overall sort of reeducation program really took off in early 2017 roughly around March or April so we're talking about an extremely rapid expansion of a detention system that is probably even larger than the reform through labor system that was built up in the Maoist era and was only a Polish just 5 short years ago and I Kevin this is Henry Chu and I'm curious because when I was based in China. Young was already considered a problem by the government it was the rest of area and they were repressive there so 15 years ago we were already hearing stories of maltreatment But why do you think it's been stepped up now is something triggered it I think the sort of. Trends in sin Jiang are very much reflective of the unfortunate course of Chinese politics particularly over the past 5 years since. The rise to power of siege in picking. We've seen real backtracking on a number of issues some the widespread arrest of. Rights Defense lawyers the abolishment of the last checks on senior leadership is power in the form of the. Abolition of term limits. And we've seen just general actually acting in the political situation the human rights situation. Of which sin Jiang is I think the most grave example. Christina your thoughts on what you're hearing. Well it's awful because we're hearing about your faith landing you in a concentration camp and we've seen recent examples where religious persecution has been absolutely horrific whether it's the cops in Egypt or the years Edis in Iraq and I'm just wondering whether the Chinese government is worried about the Muslim this move population because they're religious values undermine the statist taste the statist establishment and the regime of Xi Jinping or whether it is that they fear that they could become inflamed in anti establishment terrorist group you know is it religious or is it social unrest that they fear. I think I think it's a combination of both and I think that probably the main issue that we're seeing here. There's a real emphasis on the idea that. Religious laws can't replace national laws right although it's still quite unclear exactly what national laws are because the system of arbitrary indefinite detention would actually seem to go precisely against national laws but there seems to be a real desire to ensure that there are no sort of alternate authorities other than the Chinese Communist Party and Kevin can I just ask you on the initiative itself because obviously we're talking about the issue here but your knishes your initiative is actually to encourage people who have otherwise wouldn't want to talk about it to come forward how is that going on a people still nervous if you mean able to recruit people who or people still just just to afraid of the authorities Yeah that's a wonderful question I'd say that you know facing a situation like this. Seeing what we're seeing happening in sin Jiang you know situations like this have happened throughout history and people always say never again will never again let this happen. Unfortunately though when these events begin to unfold. People always have doubts about speaking out about taking a stand. And this is particularly pronounced I think among China academics . In so far as our livelihood our ability to do our research and to develop links with research institutions in China is many perceive partially dependent upon not being too vocal about these types of real human rights abuses and yeah the call good kind of the. Yes that the idea behind the singeing initiative was based in the sense that journalists were doing excellent work some academics were doing excellent work but a number of China experts were being very very quiet as these events unfolded in sin John and our idea was to really push people to speak out. While also providing a sort of safe haven in terms of strength in numbers by waiting until we had collected over a 100 people willing to sign up and commit to this before releasing anyone's names Kevin Carrick I thank so much for joining us 2nd having character teaches Chinese studies at McQuarrie University in Sydney you're listening to the b.b.c. World Service I'm James Kim Asami with weekend. Reminded Today's main news the us deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein has denied reports that he plotted to remove Donald Trump from office and gunmen have attacked a military parade in Iran killing several people. Now the sounds of the sea sign. The sea is what we associate with Call of gulls but a new book by Tim De who's a dedicated gull watcher or Lara file outlines a gradual move inland in the northern hemisphere and the impact that's having on man's relationship with Gal The book's called landfill he's been filling me in on its contents about 10 years ago I began to notice that some of my bird watching friends were electing to go and spend time in rather rubbishy places literally rushing places rubbish dumps landfill sites sewage farms muddy estrie corners and so on where they were worked particularly going to seek out goals goals in big numbers goals attracted to those rubbishy places and they were doing this for 2 reasons I hadn't appreciated before but which rapidly became of great interest to me one was that there were more girls close to urban places than the had been before and there are more girls than almost any other form of wildlife visible you know you could see a girl walking down the road in most high streets most cities in Britain every day most of us have got stories. About bumping into gulls almost accidentally with them seeming slightly maligned feverish even Motsa people have had their chips stolen by gulls and sea fronts and elsewhere lots of people have seen gulls coming to waste bins on city streets and managing to extract bites to eat from our food leftovers but also the same time it was fascinating because taxonomy the study of the organization of life of all life was having a new interest in the birds and had discovered through d.n.a. Analysis that the gulls that I grown up with and most of Britain had grown up with thinking belong to 3 or 4 species were actually possibly up to a dozen species you've been referring to gulls throughout this now sea gulls seagulls they were sea gulls that is they were birds that bred on sea cliffs and coastal islands and made their living Fed out of sea life and on the sea shore even I knew as a child as a young neophyte birdwatcher that they weren't really seagulls that gulls with a family name that's what we call them there's about 50 or 52 species I think around the world of gulls not all of them are seagulls most of them have had and continue to have in some ways a life on the sea and related to the sea made out of the sea but for the last 100 years in Britain and much of the rest of Europe these birds have been coming ashore are in no ways any longer seagulls they still adapted to be able to survive on the sea and live out of the sea but actually they've found an easier life and richer pickings by moving on shore and mostly alongside us you clearly fascinated by them but that there is an aspect to this makes it sound as though they're slightly sinister birds it. Sort of swaggering down the streets as something of a yob about them is there with that's the really interesting thing their arrival in our company doing things that in many ways we might approve of as indications of successful human endeavor things like being on top an aerial things like being arriving in a new place and colonizing it things like being able to make a. Living out of the rough and tumble of modern life we've decided or many of us have decided we find rather threatening they are big it's true it is extraordinary we're used to the size of a pigeon and it cities and perhaps we're used to the size of pheasants in the countryside to other birds which have been identified as belonging to what's been called the slum of a foreigner that's a kind of group of birds who've sort of surrendered their wildness and become part of the human wild Nexus like rats you could say like grey squirrels in Britain introduced birds and animals that have made their way alongside us with success and for some reason and there's a deeper political human story here as well we find animals that somehow get along with us slightly disturbing Are they a threat to us I mean that going to Hitchcockian about it are they. They're not a threat to us I mean we're a threat to them much more I mean that every year the tabloid newspapers in Britain have fun with some of the seaside stories about Gull stealing chips a couple of years ago girls did take a pet tortoise in Cornwall unlike now the year ago show our dog was taken and sure enough at that same time the newspapers managed to find so-called experts who wheeled out to say well it won't be long before a baby human is taken a baby human could never be taken by herring gull or any other gulls they are big bulky birds their wings span is about 4 feet they're strong birds they're feisty but they're they're still birds so tell us about the rubbish tips the landfill sites What is it about those particular structures that suits the girls so well landfill sites in Britain basically date from the late 19 $150.00 s. When the Clean Air Act prevented and forbade the burning of domestic rubbish in Britain in the u.k. At that point then these landfill sites rubbish dumps were opened which were the receiving houses for all of the rubbish that people were throwing away and that included an increasingly included through the wasteful decades of the sixty's and seventy's and eighty's a lot of food waste organic putrefying food waste the stuff we. Throw out from our kitchens in our restaurants and it was that that took the gulls in to the city centers and into the city landfill sites and it's that that gave them this extraordinary boost in their population it's fed them through their winters it enabled them to start breeding in city centers away far away from their former habitats and sea coasts and marine islands so this food waste going into the landfill sites churning around with all the other rubbish was a magnet to the gulls and I understand they are moving because of the different habits the different attitudes towards food waste that we have in the u.k. They are it's an interesting moment in fact this boom time is coming to an end for girls in the u.k. At the moment the urban gull population is still high in doing well conversely birds that have remained traditional seagulls if you like living on the seashore and living out of the sea and not doing so well at all some of them are even considered threatened but gulls on landfill gulls living in the urban centers are still doing well but this is likely to come to an end because curiously because of a change in our own practice because now we're interested in and committed to a cleaner environment we're now recycling much of our food waste I've certainly spent most of my days carefully separating bits of food from other bits of my rubbish and putting it out in a little brown tub once a week for the dustbin men to collect that food waste no longer goes into landfill sites it's commonly recycled or burnt or sellable gases or turned into a composite of all homeless So where are they going what seems to be happening is that in the 1st place and girls live quite a long time up to 30 years so we don't yet see massive changes in their population but in the 1st place these birds are moving elsewhere the French who may well have better cuisine than we do anyway in Britain less sophisticated at their food waste recycling and a lot of gulls that might previously been feeding in the Thames estuary and around the south coast of Britain and now known to cross the Channel and pick up some tasty sacks in a French landfill sites drunk on wine and falling into great big vats of birth but we know something a year better quality Gorm a girl's. Yes coming out of the French culture Interestingly though and this is there are other things to be said about that the British have got an anxiety about these birds in a way that other European nations don't seem to have and there's no tradition in French culture of the gulls steal French treat as much as they steal English chips but the French were not as good the surrender eating monkeys what she's eating surrender monkeys if you read the goals no actually the French people the citizens of the Republic seem much less alarmed by that behavior than the British citizens do who can explain what that's all about but interestingly the gulls somehow are both living their own lives but also reflecting back on the way we live across Europe Albans with him Christine I think you take issue with this idea that other European countries are a bit you know more open to galloping in Italy absolutely in room goals Siegel's have become a real menace and the mayor there is trying to instigate some some new initiatives in order to put a curb on this Hitchcockian you know flying population and they remind me of the foxes here in London you can see foxes everywhere and and I'm just refusing to accept that either Siegel's or foxes are cute little David Attenborough. We should be petting him cooing and comparing to humans it sounds like the French know how to live with girlfriends a lot better than. Wordsmith Henry and Christina We'll have more from you in this next part of the program stay with us here on Weekend work can be. Back on the way home catch up on the news you need listen to all things considered to hear the bigger picture every afternoon from n.p.r. News. Next time on Ask me another actor Jennifer.