Transcripts For WBTV 60 Minutes 20160313

Husband is carrying out a promise he made to her before she died. Morely safer Bjarke Ingels is the architect of the moment. A starchitect, designing everything from skyscrapers to an n. F. L. Stadium. So you are getting what is literally a picnic in a park. Safer as we will see tonight, young mr. Ingels designs can be inventive, can be provocative and are anything but boring. The roof itself is something you call a saddle shape. Or in geometric terms, you call it a hyperbolic paraboloid. I am steve kroft. I am lesley stahl. I am morley safer. I am bill whitaker. Minutes. Seen it. Covered it. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum seresto makes it easy to help protect your dog or cat from fleas and ticks. With the performance you expect from a monthly topical in a nongreasy collar. Seresto kills and repels fleas and ticks for 8 continuous months. Seresto. From bayer. The microsoft cloud allows us to access information from anywhere. The microsoft cloud allows us to scale up. Microsoft cloud changes our world dramatically. It wasnt too long ago it would take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome. Now, we can do a hundred per day. With the microsoft cloud we dont have to build server rooms. We have instant scale. The microsoft cloud is helping us to rebuild and reinterpret our business. This cloud helps transform business. This is the microsoft cloud. Hey this is lloyd. Hes agreed to give it up. Ok, but i have 30 acres to cover by sundown. Well be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. Yeah, i was ok, but after lunch my knee started hurting again so. More pills. Another pill stop. Can i get my aleve back yet . For my pain. I want my aleve. Get all day minor arthritis pain relief with an easy open cap. And can you explain why you recommend synthetic over cedar . Super food . Is that a real thing . Its a great school, but is it the right one for her . Is this really any better than the one you got last year . If we consolidate suppliers, whats the savings there . So should we go with the 467 horsepower . Or is a 423 enough . Good question. You ask a lot of good questions. I think we should move you into our new fund. Sure. Ok. But are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed . Leslie stahl the argument over encryption between apple the world is facing a far more tech savvy terror threat. While not that long ago, al qaeda often handled its communications by going back to the stone age, relying on mules and couriers. The islamic state, or isis, proved it can be done with just a push of a button using Everyday Tools of 21st century teenagers the latest smartphones and messaging apps. The encryption Debate Centers around an iphone found in san bernardino, where 14 men and women were killed in a terror attack last december. But before that, there was the massacre in paris. We went there to meet the citys chief prosecutor who is confronting some of the same issues. Francois molins translated the terrorists are able to communicate with total impunity. Stahl Francois Molins is the head prosecutor of paris. Hes investigated all the big acts of terrorism here, kosher supermarket, and now the november 13 attacks where 130 people were killed, more than 350 wounded. Do you have phones in terrorist attacks that you have not been able to get into because of encryption . Molins oui, oui. With all these Encryption Software programs, we cant penetrate into certain conversations and were dealing with this gigantic black hole, a dark zone where there are just so many Dangerous Things going on. Stahl its not just phones. One of the things hes looking into is a texting app favored by isis called telegram which, like the new apple iphone, offers advanced encryption. How often have you run in, in all your investigations, into telegram . Molins yes, very often. Telegram, we cant penetrate, we cant get into it. Inventor of telegram. Hes a young man without a country. Hes russian born but wanders the world now, in exile. He created telegram so he could communicate in complete secrecy. It has taken off, used by over 100 million people. But its also used by terrorists now. Is this a concern for you . Pavel oh definitely. And in our 100 million users, probably this illegal activity were discussing are only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the potential usage. And still were trying to, you know, prevent it. Stahl telegram has become a goto site for isis. They use it to widely disseminate propaganda like this video of the paris attackers training in syria. But isis fighters can also use telegram to send private messages to each other to covertly plan and coordinate is there something on your site on telegram that allows any messages, emails, to just disappear, vanish . Pavel yes. So, in private messages we have provides you with a Self Destruct timer. Stahl selfdestruct timer. Pavel you could set a specific amount of time, like a few seconds, or a minute or a week, after which the message would disappear. Stahl durovs obsession with secrecy and security stems from his own personal history. Long before telegram, he was known as the Mark Zuckerberg of russia because he built a popular equivalent of facebook. But in 2011, when antiputin marchers filled moscows streets, the kremlin demanded he take down the organizers sites. Pavel and i refused to do that publicly. And the next day, i had armed stahl wonder why. Pavel and tried to break into my apartment. Stahl there was continual pressure on him to hand over users personal data, culminating in 2014 when, under kremlin duress, durov was ousted from his own company. Stahl how long did you stay in russia after that . Pavel not a single day. Stahl oh, then you fled. Pavel i certainly feel that i am not welcome at that country anymore. Stahl thats when he created telegram and encrypted it, he says, so activists could be assured that no government could ever access their personal data. He managed to leave russia with a reported 300 million, which he uses to singledhandedly fund telegram, costing him, he says, over 1 million a month. This was something that you created to allow democracy to flourish, to allow dissidents in russia and in other countries to and then all of a sudden you find out that this terrorist group uses your site for completely different reasons. Pavel yeah, we were horrified. Stahl theres an irony there. Pavel there is. But you know theres little you can do because if you allow this tool to be used for good, there will always be some people who would misuse it. Stahl just hours after the terrorists hit paris on the night of november 13, isis used telegram to take credit for the attacks. It was a wakeup call for european authorities. Rob wainwright its the First Time Ever in europe that we had terrorists rampaging through our streets, first time we had terrorists wearing suicide belts in heavily populated, public areas. Stahl as head of europol, Rob Wainwright gathers and 600 Law Enforcement agencies. He has set up a new Counter Terrorism center to better coordinate all the intelligence. How much is encryption a problem generally in these investigations . Wainright in most of them. I mean, across the tens of thousands of investigations that europol is supporting every year on terrorism and serious crime, at least three quarters of them have encryption at the heart of the challenge that Law Enforcement face. Stahl now, what about the november 13th attack, specifically . Wainright from what we see, encryption also played a role in that part and thats something that we were digging into much deeper at the moment. Stahl why is it still a mystery . Wainright its not not so much of a mystery. Its not that i can share all the details about a very sensitive investigation in public. Stahl we know that the ringleader of the attack, 28 yearold Abdelhamid Abaaoud, was a wanted fugitive who goaded online isis magazine how easily he eluded them shuttling between europe and syria. He liked taking selfies of his exploits, often posting them online. In this gruesome video, he and his friends tie bodies to the back of a truck, abaaoud in the drivers seat Abdelhamid Abaaoud translated we used to tow jet skis, now we tow the infidels fighting us. Stahl what is astonishing is that you knew who he was. He was on everybodys radar screen. Molins translated youre right. Abaaoud he has been one of the major targets for france and belgium counterterrorism for many months. Stahl before paris, abaaoud was suspected of guiding european jihadis in attacks in france and belgium, but the attempts were all foiled. In one of them, an iphone belonging to one of the jihadis was confiscated but it was not useful in finding abaaoud, weve been told, and i want to confirm it, that the encrypted phone may have prevented you from getting information about the paris attacks. Molins thats a theory that really needs to be looked into. But to do so, we really need to be able to get into that phone. You know, i say, all these smart phones make justice blind because they deprive us of a lot of information that could contribute to our investigations. Stahl abaaoud was on site in paris on the night of november 13, coordinating three different teams over his phone one group, at a soccer stadium, exploded their suicide vests outside. Abaaoud and two others went on a killing spree at bars and cafes, while a third team stormed a rockconcert at the bataclan theatre and started shooting. The thing that wed been fearing was coming for months, was now happening. Stahl the prosecutor rushed to the scene, first to the cafes sprayed the sites with an assault rifle. Molins we know that he participated in the commando attacks at the cafes; afterwards we see him in a video in the paris subway. And we do believe that he went maybe just in front of the bataclan. Stahl the prosecutor also went from the cafes to the bataclan. What he didnt know was that abaaoud was outside the theatre at the same time, amid throngs of police, standing there in his orange sneakers, apparently talking on the phone to the shooters inside. While police didnt spot him there, he was tracked down to an apartment in a paris suburb five days later, and killed in a hail explosion in a stroke of luck, police found a Samsung Phone one of the attackers had tossed into a garbage can in front of the bataclan, and it posed no encryption problems. Molins translated we were able to get information from phone communications s at enabled us to retrace the terrorists movements where they were, where they stayed, their itineraries. Stahl standard Text Messages were found on the phone, including a final one saying here we go. Were starting also found the app, telegram. It had been downloaded the day of the attack. But you personally dont know if the attackers actually communicated via telegram to plot these coordinated attacks, or even if they used it during pavel no, we have no information to prove that. Stahl is there anything in your mind that says, gee, we have to have to allow law whats going on is just unacceptable. Pavel you know the interesting thing about encryption is that it cannot be secure just for some people. Stahl isis and other terrorist groups, they just push a button on an application like yours, specifically yours, an application and its gone around the world, like that. Pavel well again, this is the world of technology and its impossible to stop them at this point. Isis could come up with their own messaging solution within a month or so, if they wanted to because the stahl you mean create their own telegram . Pavel exactly. Stahl since paris, durov has been purging isis propaganda from telegram but says, if asked to unlock any private messages, he would tell the authorities that the encryption code makes it mathematically impossible, using a similar argument as apple. So youre basically saying that even if you wanted to, your hands are tied. Stahl you cant do it. Pavel we cannot. Stahl so this is one of the great debates of our time. Which is more important . Is it more important to shut down this kind of terrorism or pavel im personally for the privacy side. But one thing that should be clear is that you cannot make just one exception for Law Enforcement without endangering private communications of hundreds of millions of people because encryption is either secure or not. Stahl the founder of telegram has told us he thinks privacy is more important than security issues, and he wouldnt open it up even if you did ask him. Molins translated fine, thats his personal choice. But i consider that there are limits in all societies. There are limits to freedom and privacy. Freedom doesnt mean you can just do anything and everything you want. And theres a duty of institutions, police and you cant have freedom without security. Im always there for my daughter. For the little things. And the big milestones. And just like im there for her, pacific life is there to help protect me and my family so i can enjoy all lifes moments. Pacific life. Helping families for over 145 years achieve longterm Financial Security with lifelong retirement income. 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My lineage was the vecchios and zuccolis. Through ancestry, through dna i found out that i was only 16 italian. He was 34 eastern european. So i went onto ancestry, soon learned that one of our ancestors we thought was italian was eastern european. He looks a little bit like me, yes. Ancestry has many paths to discovering your story. Get started for free at ancestry. Com tt2watx `i4 p bt`nq8 tt2watx `i4 p a`na \ tt2watx `i4 p bm`nj p tt4watx `i4 r dzlq b8h tt4watx `i4 r enlq 2 leslie stahl now, dr. John lapook of cbs news, on assignment for 60 minutes. Maynard was dying of brain cancer when she decided to drink a lethal prescription to end her life. She was just 29 years old. Her decision made her a symbol in the debate about how much we should be able to control the time and manner of our own death. This is not euthanasia, when a doctor gives a patient a lethal injection. Thats illegal in all 50 states. Aidindying, or what opponents call assisted suicide and supporters call death with dignity, relies on people taking the medication themselves. Oregon became the first state to legalize it 18 years ago, but because a nurse or doctor is rarely present, its remained mostly a private affair, practiced behind closed doors. We wanted to hear from patients and family members whove experienced it and are fighting to make it legal nationwide. Brittany maynard had been married less than a year when mass. It turned out to be brain cancer so aggressive, doctors gave her only six months to live. Brittany maynard all evidence points to the fact that this cancer will kill me. Lapook three weeks before she died, brittany, bloated by medication used to control brain swelling, explained in an interview with cbs news why she was grateful to find a legal way to end her life. Maynard being able to take a medication that allows me to slip into a sleep in five minutes and pass away most likely within the half hour sounds a lot better to me just as a human being, as a daughter, as a wife. And i think it sounded better to my family than reading about the alternative. Lapook the alternative, husband dan diaz says, was for brittany to endure weeks of agonizing decline. Dan diaz brittany said, death. But i am afraid of being tortured to death. Lapook what did she mean by being tortured, specifically . What was she afraid of . Diaz so those symptoms that she knew was coming for her, the torture for her wouldve been losing her eyesight and not knowing now whos in the room. I mean, the seizures were bad enough as it was. Lapook how about pain . Diaz pain was just constant. Lapook but aidindying medication wasnt legal in their home state of california. So in the spring of 2014, brittany told dan it was time to pack up and head to oregon, the closest of four states where it was legal. Once she became an oregon resident, brittany had to make two verbal requests, 15 days apart, to a doctor, fill out this written form, and have two physicians confirm she was mentally competent and expected to have less than six months to live. The medication often prescribed is secobarbital. A barbiturate that in small doses causes sleep, in large doses, death. In with a prescription and gets a bottle of 100 of these capsules. Each one haso be opened up individually and one by one the powder poured into a glass and the contents dissolved in water. Maynard this is the prescription for death with dignity. Lapook since 1997, more than 1,500 prescriptions have been written in oregon. Over a third who requested it, never took the medication. Diaz i think people think, oh well, you apply for that medication. And then, you get that. And then, youre kind of done. No, no, no. You apply for that medication. You secure it. You put it the cupboard. And you keep fighting. And we sent her packet of medical information to duke and mayo clinic and u. C. L. A. And everywhere that we possibly could to see whats out there. So you have cancer, you fight. Lapook brittanys tumor kept growing. Invading her brain, and causing seizures so violent they left her unable to speak for hours. She feared a stroke might soon to take the lethal medication. So on november 1, 2014, she posted this photo on facebook, said goodbye, and drank the five ounces that would end her life. Do you mind sharing the last few moments you spent with her . Diaz um, we were um, in the room, in our bedroom. And i was right next to her. Theres no, like, dark cloud looming. It it the feeling is simply of love and support. Within five minutes, brittany fell asleep just like ive seen her do a thousand times before, very peacefully. Within 30 minutes, her breathing slowed to the point where she passed away. Lapook dan diaz has kept in touch with dr. Eric walsh, the oregon physician who prescribed the medication. Dr. Walsh couldnt talk about the specifics of brittanys case the first time has agreed to discuss why he prescribed the medication to her, as well as to 19 others. Dr. Eric walsh when somebodys facing the end of their life, shouldnt they be in control . Shouldnt i be able to help them when theyre suffering, and the burden of living becomes intolerable to them . Lapook we hear a lot about statistics about the oregon experience. But its a lot of sort of statistical detail, and not a lot of emotion. Walsh youre right, the statistics are very dry. Someone said that statistics are human stories with the tears washed off. Lapook tell me about your tears, perhaps once youre involved in this. Walsh you know, we categorize tears into a single adjective. Tears of joy, tears of sorrow, tears of regret. But actually in the physician aidindying, these are tears that contain all all of those adjectives. Lapook Elizabeth Wallner looks healthy, but has advanced surgeries, radiation and months of chemotherapy are barely keeping at bay. She sued the state of california for the right to end her life with medication. Why do you feel so strongly about legislation . Elizabeth wallner mostly, for my son. I remember you know, he was 15 when i was diagnosed. And i just remember this one time i was in the bathroom and he was taking care of me while i was getting sick and i looked over at him and his face was just absolutely devastated. And i just realized in that moment that i can only take so much and my family can only take so much. This child is my knight in shining armor. Lapook nathaniel wallner, now 20, says he savors the time he has left with his mom, but is realistic about what lies ahead. Nathaniel wallner fourand ahalf years of fighting cancer, and suffering. Elizabeth wallner yeah. Lapook i guess theres saying that, and theres feeling it for sure. And i can see it in your eyes. And then theres when the moment comes. Is there a little bit of a question mark in your head about how youll feel then . Nathaniel wallner i dont think so. Lapook youve thought about this a lot. Nathaniel wallner yeah. There isnt a day where i wont wish that there would be more time. But there will very easily be a day where i wish there was less suffering. Lapook elizabeth, who was raised catholic, disagrees with those who say aidindying goes against gods will. Elizabeth wallner i dont believe in a god that would want me to suffer and struggle to death. I dont believe in an in compassionate god. The only argument that ive heard that actually makes any sense is that there is some beauty in struggle. And i agree with that, there is beauty in struggle. But fourandahalf years, end of a struggle, im good, you know . William toffler, whos taken care of terminally ill patients for 40 years, worries doctors prescribing medication may not know people well enough and might miss signs of depression. He believes one reason oregons legislation is flawed is that the state isnt required to track what happens to people after they fill their prescription. Dr. William toffler 90 of the time here in oregon, theres no doctor present. So theres really a shroud of secrecy under this whole thing. The only cases that come to light really arent very reassuring. Lapook dr. Toffler is referring to the fact that out of the nearly 1,000 people whove taken the medication, about 30 cases of complications have been reported to the Oregon Health authority. Mostly vomiting, and six patients regained consciousness at least once before dying. Toffler its basically corrupting the practice of medicine where we are no longer providers for the health and wellbeing of patients until they, they die naturally. But were now actually hastening death by giving people massive overdoses. Interest for doctors. Lapook dr. Toffler says he faced these issues with his own wife, marlene, when she was dying of cancer two years ago. Toffler even with breathing difficulties, like my wife had with her terminal illness. And she had that fear. I had to help her to understand, marlene, we can get through this together. Weve got medicines to help relieve the air hunger. Its not gonna be that bad. And it wasnt. Robert williams hi dr. Walsh, how are you . Lapook we joined dr. Walsh as he visited one of his hospice patients, robert williams, at home. Dr. Walsh says the majority of his patients who are terminally ill receive hospice care. Nurse big breath. Lapook . Compassionate , professional endoflife treatment that can include anti anxiety drugs and powerful narcotics like morphine. Though usually extremely effective at keeping people comfortable, in rare instances, standard hospice care doesnt work well enough. In those cases, dr. Walsh says, palliative sedation. Walsh when the physician decides that suffering is intolerable, the physician prescribes a medication which puts the patient in a coma. Lapook which is what . Walsh well, usually its a barbiturate. The nurse administers it. Its given until the person is asleep. The person sleeps for three days, five days. Ive had someone live ten days, still excreting, still breathing, with the family at the bedside wondering, when is this going to end . Lapook that was the kind of death Californian Jennifer glass was adamant she did not want. Last year, battling lung cancer, she shared her fears in online videos. Jennifer glass the idea that it will end by me drowning in my own lung fluid while my family watches me suffer; that is terrifying. Lapook but last august, when standard hospice care was no was put in palliative sedation, which lasted fiveandahalf days. Though for most people it leads to a peaceful death, jennifers husband, Harlan Seymour, says it did not work for her. Harlan seymour there were times when she was gurgling, where she was foaming through the mo the mouth and nose. And i feel that she was suffering on the inside. That it was really a terror on the inside. Lapook and what was it like for you to watch this . Seymour to be there and see my beautiful wife suffer and and wither away and have difficulty breathing. It was heartbreaking. Lapook dan diaz says hes grateful his last memories of his wife, brittany maynard, are of walking these woods in oregon. Diaz the last time i was here, brittany was at my side. The last time i did anything here, it was her and me and with the dogs. Lapook before brittany died, dan promised her hed work to make aidindying legal in their so he quit his job and teamed up with the organization compassion choices. Last september, a bill was passed permitting aidindying. It will go into effect this june. Elizabeth wallner says she will now be able to control not only her suffering but where, with whom and when she dies. Something shes grateful for since speaking with dan diaz and Harlan Seymour about their wives final days. Elizabeth wallner those deaths were really, really different. And jennifer died in pain, and in fear, and panicking, and thinking she was drowning. Lapook whereas brittany . Elizabeth wallner brittany crawled into bed with her husband. He had her arms around her, and she was asleep in five minutes. And both women are gone. And yet, the difference of what they left behind is so profound. Lapook and it sounds like from what youre saying your decision to perhaps take the medication will be a final act Elizabeth Wallner absolutely. Lapook of protecting your son. Elizabeth wallner absolutely. I just want him to remember me him a hard time, and telling him to brush his teeth, and knowing that i would i would, you know, walk across the sun for him. Announcer dr. John lapook examines the fine line between practicing medicine and reporting on it. Go to 60minutesovertime. Comlose all that negativity. Just let it go. Its just bad energy. Oh, and lose those terrible black balloons they give you on your 50th. Whats up with that . Hey we hear you. Thats why our members love aarp the magazine. It celebrates you. With fun and provocative content, from lifestyle and entertainment to indepth reporting. And its just one of the great benefits of membership. If you dont think this is right for me when you think aarp, then you dont know aarp. There were people who listened along the way. People who gave me options. Kept me on track. And through it all, my retirement never got left behind. So today, im prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be. Every someday needs a plan. If youre doing everything right but find it harder and harder to get by, youre not alone. While our people work longer hours for lower wages, almost all new income goes to the top 1 . My plan make wall street banks and the ultrarich pay their fair share of taxes, provide living wages for working people, ensure equal pay for women. Im bernie sanders. I approve this message because together, we can make a Political Revolution and not just the powerful few. Bill whitaker it was the pioneer of modern architecture le corbusier, who said houses were machines for living in. And at the ripe old age of 41, Bjarke Ingels is turning out a he is the architect of the moment, a starchitect, designing everything from skyscrapers to an n. F. L. Stadium. But, as morley safer discovered, young mister ingles designs, can be inventive, can be provocative and are anything but boring. Morley safer Bjarke Ingels is having his moment. Bjarke ingels when you see it from the memorial. Safer hes not only designing the final tower at the World Trade Center ingels basically we are at the middle of the ski slope, so there. Safer he is trotting the globe, with some 60 projects in the works. Ingels its still very much a work in progress. Safer theres the googleplex, googles futuristic complex of domes planned for its campus in silicon valley. Ingels we were quite worried about that distance. Safer and the new lego headquarters in his native denmark. In new york city alone, he has five Major Projects underway, including a 3 billion highrise that is a great view of new york so we decided to take to the hudson river to have a look. Starting with this a massive, almost finished apartment complex for all those young and restless new yorkers striving to make their first millions. Tell me why you call it the Court Scraper . Ingels it is the unlikely child of a new york skyscraper, and if you like a copenhagen courtyard building. Safer but its also a pyramid, it also could be a sail. Ingels exactly. Eventually, we just realized we had to make it much more extreme. So it became a single tower to the east that then drops towards the water. The roof itself is something you call a saddle shape, or in geometric terms you call it a hyperbolic paraboloid. laughs its almost like safer say that three times quickly. Ingels yeah, exactly. Safer are you surprised how good it is, or how bad it is or how unique it is . Ingels its paradoxical for an architect. All the battles you lost, all the compromises that had to be made, or the the bleep ups that couldnt be fixed. laughs youre going to have to bleep that out. Danish guard attention. Safer the rise and rise of young mr. Ingels started here in copenhagen, where he grew up. His father an engineer, his mother a dentist. Ingels i wanted to be a cartoonist, but there was no cartoon academy. So i enrolled in the Royal Danish Art Academy school of architecture. But then i really got smitten by architecture. We dont want any verticals. Safer from the beginning, ingels says he set out to disrupt modern architectures tyrany of what he calls the formulaic, boring box. Ingels when i started studying architecture, people would say, you know, can you tell me why are all modern buildings so boring . Because, like, people had this idea that in the good old days architecture had, like, ornament and little towers and spires and gargoyles. And today, it just becomes very practical. Safer after graduation, ingels lasted just two years working for famed architect rem his own. In 2005, he formed big for the Bjarke Ingels group from his tiny apartment in copenhagen. Ingels denmark is one of the smallest countries on the planet. And there was something funny about calling a company big. I think if i would have started probably never have called it big. There was nothing but, a little bit of local small country humor in in the idea. Some plaza. Safer almost immediately, he began to win design competitions, making a name for himself with inventive, whimsical designs for what can be often deadly boring suburban apartment buildings. Ingels five years ago, we had built a few projects in copenhagen that were in a way ordinary. Projects, like, housing and parking and shops and offices, but we had put them together in a way that created the maybe remarkable results. And suddenly, we got an and and look at the site on 57th street. And and in a way, i had Nothing Better to do, so i thought, why dont i move to new york and see how it goes . Safer it went pretty well. He now oversees 300 employees between offices in new york and copenhagen. Ingels the more it looks like a megalomaniacal. Safer ingels believes his success comes from his ability to combine the practical with the fantastical. Like this harbor bath in copenhagen, where swimmers can swim in the citys harbor. Or how about this . The design for the just unveiled new redskins stadium, complete with a moat for all those kayaking tailgaters. Ingels tailgating literally safer the culture at big is intense. cheers safer but in off hours, blowing off steam dressed as their favorite comic book hero isnt uncommon. Thats the boss armed with a gun full otequila. Maybe unlike certain architects that have a very particular style, where it is the auteur. It has to be the the design principal who who makes the strokes of genius. I dont have to come up with the best idea. It is my job to make sure that it it is always the best idea that wins. Michael kimmelman i think bjarke is is really a wonderful spokesman. For himself and for, i would say also for the possibility that architecture can really make life better for people. Safer Michael Kimmelman is the architecture critic for the new york times. He says ingels has combined natural talent with a mastery of marketing, a so called star chitect. Kimmelman its rare that you get architects who are really in their 30s and 40s who get to build big projects. And bjarke has figured that out partly by selling a certain youthful notion of of the oldest starchitect model which is a glamour and spectacle. Think is very important nowadays, which is to combine a notion of his own work with some larger social purpose. Safer but the thing that strikes me is a lot of people are willing to lay down billions of dollars kimmelman billions. Yeah, with a b, yeah. Safer on this kid. Kimmelman laughs yeah. Its true it is a gamble. Hes got a lot of work coming down the pike. How is he going to make sure that work is not recycled, is original, that its finished well . Safer there must be criticism by other architects. Ingels the more you are up to something interesting, the more its going to inspire praise and criticism. Safer and in your case . Ingels we have a fair amount of of sunshine and the opposite. And i think if you were t if you were to take all of that to heart, you wouldnt be able to to you know, draw a line or or lay a brick. Safer ingels has become a celebrity at home in denmark, where hes designing the new of toymakers lego. At the topping off ceremony in october, townspeople waited in line in the rain to catch a glimpse of the new building and its architect. Ingels that steel is the tieback. Safer that fame has also and add more spectacle to his creations. This is a chimney that belches steam rings. It will go atop a green garbage incinerating power plant in copenhagen. The roof doubles as a ski slope. I mean, the building says, come and look at me. Ingels yeah, since this power plant is really saving a lot of co2 emissions, its almost a complete reversal of the symbolism of a chimney. Safer the idea for the outrageous structure originally started as a joke. Ingels normally, you would want to be as far away from a power plant as possible because its polluting, its noisy, its smelly. But this this is so clean that you essentially have clean mountain air on the roof of it. Make sense to to make it a ski slope. And so, yeah, great idea, like, lets get serious. But then, when you stop laughing, it it felt like, wait a minute, maybe this is not so stupid, maybe its actually a good idea. Safer never mind the starchitect appellation. Youre a activist. Ingels if youre just reaffirming the status quo, then you are missing the point that the city is never complete. So every project we do somehow has to count. Safer particularly this one. The design for two World Trade Center, the final tower set to rise on the site. Ingels two world trade is roughly gonna be as tall as one world trade, but without the spire. And if you see it from here it it would appear as a series of seven city blocks of of different proportions stepping up towards the sky. Safer it must have been a given that so much part of new york is hallowed ground. Ingels oh, yes. Also because the site is so complex. Theres, like, 11 subway lines. Theres, like, multiple highways, service roads, power plants. Like, the entire underground is like an anthill of complexity. So, i was, like, really scared that now we were getting, like, the opportunity of a lifetime, and we would be so restricted that it would be almost impossible to come up with something. Larry silverstein his designs can be counted on to be different. Safer developer Larry Silverstein bought the original twin towers just weeks before the attacks on 9 11, and has spent the last 14 years on the sites redevelopment. Did you have any qualms about this very, very young architect . I mean, most architects dont come into their own until their 60s or even 80s. laughs silverstein and here he is, 40 looking like 20. For you to realize, right, were in were in another era. Right. The fact that im almost 85 years of age, maybe its time for me to to begin to begin be a little more flexible laughs when it comes to these things. Safer the seasoned developer who has seen it all and the young starchitect have become an architectural odd couple. Silverstein i find this very tough for women to walk on for anybody in heels. If you talk to our people, our maintenance people, they will tell you this has become an unmitigated disaster. Safer the rebuilding effort at the World Trade Center has been long and tortured, full of false starts and unrealized plans. Tower two is no different. In 2005, the job designing it had gone to preeminent architect norman foster, a british lord no less, but the proposed tower was never built. When Rupert Murdoch and his son james decided to move foxs headquarters to the site, they brought in ingels. Scrapped. Kimmelman there was a palace coup and and foster was out. But foster was designing, really a different project for another client. Safer you were chosen over one of the worlds leading architectural firmsnorman foster. How did you pull that off . Ingels the design that had already been designed for the site was m was very much designed in the thinking of of the old financial district. And as the whole neighborhood has changed, what was needed was was a different kind of building. And sometimes the set up needs to change. Safer which it did yet again when Rupert Murdoch went from daddy warbucks to scrooge and pulled out of the deal to move to two world trade, leaving silverstein on the hook to find a new tenant and get the building built. Ingels the second we have designed them and built them, they belong to everybody. Safer as for ingels, he is responsibility with the towers design, knowing that 9 11 is forever etched in all of our minds. Ingels i got a letter from a brother of a firefighter that gave his life at the 9 11. And he just wrote me to say that, i see it as a Giant Staircase to heaven evoking the heroic stair climb of the First Responders at 9 11. And to him, he thought the skyline of manhattan itself would commemorate the heroism, and sacrifice of 9 11. I couldnt claim that we had that we have thought of it like that. But now, i cant think of the building without also seeing seeing that interpretation. Safer it must be a gr a great honor to have gotten that commission. 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