Transcripts For WBAL Presidential Debate 20121017

venue for the introduction of these two men, president obama, governor romney, their second of three debates. this one, of course, off the vice presidential debate. tonight the format here becomes critical. while candy crowley of cnn will moderate the discussion, this is a town hall format tonight. the questions coming from undecided voters as chosen by the gallup polling organization. there are 80 undecided voters in the hall. organizers hope to get 13 questions in along with follow-ups in the 90 minutes before us. candy crowley has indicated she plans a more activist role. that made the organizers nervous. let's see what she has to say. >> good evening from hofstra university in new york. i'm candy crowley from cnn's state of the union. we are here for the second presidential debate a town hall sponsored by the commission on presidential debate. the gallup organization chose 80 undecided voters. my goal is to give the conversation direction and ensure questions are answered. the questions are known to me sm my team only. neither the commission nor the candidates have seen them. i hope to get to as many questions as possible, and because i'm the optimistic sort, i'm sure the candidates will oblige by keeping their answers concise and on point. each candidate has two minutes to respond and there's a two-minute follow-up. the audience in the hall will be polite and attentive. we have set aside that aagreemeagreement just this once to welcome president barack obama and governor mitt romney. [ cheers and applause ] >> gentlemen, thank you both for joining us here tonight. we have a lot of folks wagts all day to talk to you, so i want to get right to it. governor romney, as you know, you won the coin toss, so the first question will go to you. i want to turn to a first-time voter, jeremy epstein, who has a question for you. >> mr. president, governor romney, as a 20-year-old college student all i hear from professors, neighbors and others is when i graduate i'll have little chance to get employment. what can you say to reassure but more importantly my parents i can sufficiently support myself after i graduate? >> thank you, jeremy. i appreciate your question, and thank you for being here this evening and to all of those from nassau county that have come. thank you for your time. thank you to hofstra university and candy crowley for organizing and leading this event. thank you, mr. president, for being part of this debate. your question is one that's being asked by college kids all over this country. i was in pennsylvania with someone who just graduated in philadelphia, and she said i've got my degree, i can't find a job. i have three part-time jobs, they're just barely enough to pay for food and pay for an apartment. i c't begin to pay back student loans. so what we have to do is two things. we have to make sure it's easier for kids to afford college and make sure when they get out of college there's a ajob. when i was governor of massachusetts to get a high school degree, you had to pass an exam. if you graduated in the top quarter of your class, we gave you a john and ababagail scholarship. he want to keep our pell grant program growing. we're going to have our loan program so people are able to afford school. but the key thing is to make sure you get a job out of school, and what's happened over the last four years has been very, very hard for america's young people. i want you to be able to get a job. i know what it takes to get this economy going. with half of college kids graduating this year without a college -- without a job and without a college level job, that's unacceptable. likewise you have more and more debt on your back. so more debt and less jobs. i'm going to change that. i know what it takes to create good jobs again. i know what it takes to make sure that you have the kind of opportunity you deserve, and kids across this country recognize we're bringing back an economy. it's not going to be like the last four years. the middle class has been crushed over the last four years, and jobs are too scarce. i know what it takes to bring them back, and i'll do athat and make sure when you graduate -- when do you graduate? 2014. when you come out in 2014, i presume i'll be president. i'll make sure you get a job. thanks, jeremy. you bet. >> mr. president. >> jeremy, first of all, your future is bright, and the fact that you're making an investment in higher education is critical, not just to you but the entire nation. now, the most important thing we can do is to make sure that we are creating jobs in this country but not just jobs, good-paying jobs. ones that support a family, and what i want to do is build on the 5 million jobs we've created over the last 30 months in the private sector alone. there are a bunch of things to do to make sure your future is bright. number one, i want to build manufacturing jobs in this country again. when governor romney said we should let detroit go bankrupt, i said we'll bet on american workers and the american auto industry, and it's come surging back. i want to do that in industries not just in detroit but all across the country, and that means we change our tax code to give incentives to companies investing in the united states and can creating jobs here. it means we help them and small businesses to export all around the world to new markets. number two, we've got to make sure that we have the best education system in the world, and the fact you're going to college is great, but i want everybody to get a great education. we worked hard to make sure student loans are available for folks like you. i want it to nmake sure that th community colleges are offering slots for workers retrained for jobs right now and the jobs of the future. number three, we have to control our own energy. not only oil and natural gas, which we've been investing in, but also we have to make sure we're building the energy source of the future. not just thinking about next year but ten years from now, 20 years from now. that's why we invest in solar and wind and biofuels. energy efficient cars. we have to reduce our deficit, but in a balanced way. asking the wealthy to pay more along with cuts to invest in education like yours. let's take the money we're spending on war over the last decade to rebuild america, roads, bridges, schools. we do those things, not only is your future bright but america's future is bright as well. >> let me ask you for a more immediate answer beginning with mr. romney. just quickly, what can you do looking at a situation where 40% of the unemployed have been unemployed for six months or more. they don't have the two years that jeremy has. what about those long-term unemployed who need a job right now? >> well, what you see in this country is 23 million people struggling to find a job, and a lot of them, as you say, have been out of work for a long, long, long time. the president's policies have been exercised over the last four years, and they haven't put americans back to work. we have fewer people working today than we had when the president took office. if the unemployment rate was 7.8% when he took office, it's 7.8% now. but if you calculated that unemployment rate taking back the people who dropped out of the work force, it would be 10.7%. we have not made the progress we need it to make to put people back to work. that's why i put in a five-point plan that gets america 12 million new jobs in four years and a rising take-home pay. it will help jair any get a job out of school. it helps people across the country unemployed right now. one thing that the president said, which i want to make sure that we understand, he said that i said we should take detroit bankrupt. that's right. my plan was to have the company go through bankruptcy like 7-eleven did and macy's and continental airlines and come out stronger. i know he keeps saying you wanted to take detroit bankrupt. the president took detroit bankrupt and general motors bankrupt, chrysler bankrupt. so when you you say that i wanted to take the auto industry bankrupt, you actually did. i think it's important to know that that was a process that was necessary to get those companies back on their feet so they could start hiring more people. that was precisely what i recommended, and ultimately what happened. >> let me give the president a chance. go ahead. >> candy, what governor romney said just isn't true. he wanted to take them into bankruptcy without providing them any way to stay open. we would have lost 1 million jobs. don't take my word for it. take the executives at gm and chrysler, some of whom are republicans, may even support governor romney. they'll tell you his prescription wouldn't work. he doesn't have a five-point plan but a one-point plan. that plan is to make sure folks at the top play by a different set of rules. that's been his philosophy in the private sector and as governor. that's been his philosophy as a presidential candidate. you can make a lot of money and pay lower tax rates than somebody who makes a lot less. you can ship jobs overseas and get tax breaks for it. you can invest in a company, bankrupt it, lay off the workers, strip away their pensions and you still make money. that's exactly the philosophy that we've seen in place for the last decade. that's what's been squeezing middle class families. and we have fought back for four years to get out of that mess. the last thing we need to do is to go back to the same policies that got us there. >> mr. president, next question is going to be for you here. governor romney, there will be plenty of chances to go on, but want we have all these folks. i will let you absolutely. >> way off the mark. >> you certainly will have lots of time here coming up. i want to move you on to something that sort of connected to cars here and go over. we want to get a question from philip surkola. >> your energy secretary has now been on record three times stating it's not policy of his department to help lower gas prices. do you agree with the secretary that this is not the job of the energy department? >> the most important thing we can do is to make sure we control our own energy. so here's what i've done since i've been president. we have increased oil production to the highest levels in 16 years. natural gas production is the highest it's been in decades. we have seen increases in coal production and coal employment, but what i've also said is we can't just produce traditional sources of energy. we have to look to the future. that's why we doubled fuel efficiency standards on cars. that means in the middle of the next decade any car you buy, you end up going twice as far on a gallon of gas. that's why we doubled clean energy production like wind and solar and biofuels. it contributed to us lowering our oil imports to the lowest levels in 16 years. now, i want to build on that. that means, yes, we still continue to open up new areas for drilling. we continue to make it a priority for us to go after natural gas. we've got potentially 600,000 jobs and 100 years worth of energy right beneath our feet with natural gas. we can do it in an environmentally sound way, but we have to continue to figure out how we have efficient energy because ultimately that's how we're going to reduce demand and that's what's going to keep gas prices lower. now, governor romney will say he's got an all of the above plan, but basically his plan is to let the oil companies write the energy policies. so he's got the oil and gas part, but he doesn't have the clean energy part. and if we are only thinking about tomorrow or the next day and not thinking about ten years from now, we're not going to control our own economic future because china, germany, they're making these investments. i'm not going to seed those jobs of the future to those countries. i expect those new energy sources to be built right here in the united states. that's going to help jeremy get a job and make sure that you're not paying as much for gas. >> governor, on the subject of gas prices. >> well, let's look at the president's policies, all right, as opposed to the rhetoric. we had four years of policies being played out, and the president's right in terms of additional oil production but none on federal land. as a matter of fact oil production is down 14% this year on federal land and gas production is down 9%. why? because the president cut in half the number of licenses and permits for drilling on federal lands and in federal waters. so where did the increase come from? well, a lot came from the range in north dakota. what was his participation there? the administration brought a criminal action against the people drilling up there for oil, this massive new resource we have. what was the cause? 20 or 25 birds were killed. they brought out a migratory bird act to go after them on a criminal basis. i want to make sure we use oil, coal, gas, nuclear, our renewables. i believe very much in renewable capabilities are an important part of the mix, but what we don't need is to have the president keeping us from taking advantage of oil, coal, and gas. this is not mr. oil or mr. gas or mr. coal. talk to the people that are working in those industries. i was in coal country. people grabbed my arms and say, please, save my job. the head of the epa said you can't build a coal plant. it's virtually impossible given our regulations. when the president ran for office, he said if you build a coal plant, you can go ahead, but you'll go bankrupt. that's not the right course for america. let's take advantage of the energy resources we have as well as the energy sources for the future. if we do that, if we do what i'm planning on doing, which is getting us energy independent, north america energy independent within eight years, you see manufacturing jobs come back because our energy is low-cost. they're already beginning to come back because of abundant energy. i'll get america and north america energy independent. i'll do it by more drilling and more permits and licenses. we'll bring in the pipeline from canada. how in the world the president said no to that pipeline i will never know. this is about bringing good jobs back for the middle class of america, and that's what i'm going to do. >> mr. president, let me see if i can move you to the gist of this question, which is, are we looking at the new normal? i can tell you tomorrow morning a lot of people will wake up and fill up and find that the price of gas is over $4 a gallon. is it within the purview of the government to bring those prices down, or are we looking at the new normal? >> candy, there's no doubt that world demand has gone up, but our production is going up and we're using oil more efficiently. very little of what governor romney just said is true. we opened up public lands. we're drilling more on public lands than in the previous administration, and the previous president was an oil man. and natural gas isn't just appearing magically. we're encouraging it and working with the industry. when i hear governor romney say he's a big coal guy, keep in mind when you were governor of massachusetts you stood in front of a coal plant and pointed at it and said, "this plant kills." you took great pride in shutting it down. now suddenly you're a big champion of coal. so what i've tried to do is be consistent with respect to something like coal, we made the largest investment in clean coal technology to make sure that even as we're producing more coal, we're producing it cleaner and smarter. same thing with oil. same thing with natural gas. the proof is our oil imports are down to the lowest levels in 20 years. oil production is up, natural gas production is up, and most importantly we're starting to build cars that are more efficient. that's creating jobs. that means those cars can be exported, because that's the demand around the world. it also means it will save money in your pocketbook. that's the strategy you need, and that's what we will do in the next four years. >> that's not what ryou've done in the last four years. that's the problem. in the last four years you cut permits and licenses on federal land and federal waters in half. >> not true, governor romney. >> how much did you cut them by, n then? >> we produced more oil. >> how much did you cut licenses on federal lands and waters? >> there were a whole bunch of oil companies. >> i had a question and the question was how much did you cut them? >> do you want me to answer? i'm happy to answer the question. >> it is? >> here's what happened. you had a whole bunch of oil companies who had leases on public lands they weren't using. what we said was, you can't just sit on this for 10, 20, 30 years and decide when you want to drill, when you want to produce, when it's most profitable for you. these are public lands, so if you want to drill on public lands, you use it or you lose it. what we did is take away those leases and we're now reletting them so we can make a profit. >> and production on government land is down. >> no, it isn't. >> production on government land is down 14%, and production of gas is down 9%. >> it's just not true. >> it's absolutely true. there's no question but the people recognize we have not produced oil and gas on federal lands and in federal waters, and coal production is not up. coal jobs are not up. i was just at a coal facility where 1200 people lost their jobs. the right course for america is to have a true all of the above policy. i don't think anyone really believes that you're a person who is going to push for oil and gas and coal. you'll get your chance in a moment. i'm still speaking. the answer is i don't believe people think that's the question. that wasn't a question but a statement. i don't believe the american people believe that. i will fight for oil, coal and natural gas. the proof of whether a strategy is working or not is what the price is that you pay at the pump. if you're paying less than you paid a year or two ago, then the strategy is working. but you pay more. when the president took office, the price of gasoline in nassau county was 1.86 a gallon. now it's 4 bucks a gallon. the price of electricity is work. if the energy policies are working you see the cost of energy come down. i will fight to create more energy in this country to get america energy secure and part of that is bringing in a pipeline of oil from canada, taking advantage of the oil and coal we have here, drilling offshore in alaska, drilling offshore in virginia where the people want it. those things will get us the energy we need. >> mr. president, could you address because we finally got the gas prices here. could you address what the governor said, which is if your energy policy was working, the price of gasoline would not be $4 a gallon here. >> think about what the governor just said. when i took office the price of gasoline was 1.80. why is that? the economy was on the verge of collapse. because we were about to go through the worst recession since the great depression. as a consequence of some of the same policies that governor romney is now promoting. so it's conceivable that governor romney could bring down gas prices, because with his policies we might be back in that same mess. what i want to do is to create an economy that is strong and at the same time produce energy. with respect to this pipeline that governor romney keeps talking about, we've built enough pipeline to wrap around the entire earth once. so i'm all for pipelines, i'm all for oil production. what i'm not for is us ignoring the other half of the equation. for example on wind energy, when governor romney says these are imaginary jobs, when you have thousands of people right now in iowa, right now in colorado who are working creating wind power with good-paying manufacturing jobs, and the republican senator in iowa is all for it providing tax cuts to help this work and governor romney says, i'm opposed. i'd get rid of it. that's not an energy strategy for the future, and we need to win that future. i intend to win it as president of the united states. >> i have to move you along. the next question is for you -- >> he got the first question, so i get the last question -- i get the last answer in that. >> actually in the follow-up it doesn't work like that. i'll give you a chance here. i promise you i'm going to. the next question is for you. if you want to, you know, continue on, but i don't want to leave all these guys sitting here. >> i have a policy of stopping wind jobs in iowa and they are not phantom jobs and they're real jobs. i appreciate wind jobs in iowa and across the country. i appreciate the jobs in coal and oil and gas. i'll make sure taking advantage of our energy resources will bring back manufacturing to america. we're going to get through a very aggressive energy policy, 3.5 million more jobs in this country. it's critical to the future. >> i'm used to being interrupted. >> we're going to move you both along to taxes over here and all these folks waiting. governor, this question is for you. it's from mary falano. >> hi, mary. >> governor romney, you have stated that if you're elected president you would plan to reduce the tax rates for all the tax brackets, and that you would work with the congress to eliminate some deductions in order to make up for the loss in revenue. concerning the various deductions, the mortgage deduction, the charitable deduction, the child tax credit, and also the -- what's that other credit? i forgot. >> you're doing great. >> oh, i remember. the education credits which are important to me, because i have children in college. what would be your position on those things which are important to the middle class? >> thank you very much. and let me tell you, you're absolutely right about part of that, which is i want to bring the rates down. i want to simplify the tax code. i want to get middle income tax pa payers to have lower taxes. the reason i want them to have lower taxes is because middle income tax payers have been buried over the past four years. you've seen as middle income people go down $4,300 a family as gasoline prices go up $2,000, health insurance premiums up $2,500, food prices up, utility prices up. the middle income families in america have been crushed over the last four years. i want to get some relief to middle income families. that's part one. now, how about deductions? i'm going to bring rates down across the board for everybody, but i'm going to limit deductions and exemptions and credits particularly for people at the high end, because i am not going to have people at the high end pay less than they're paying now. the top 5% of taxpayers continue to pay 60% of the income tax the nation nation collects. that stays the same. middle income people get a tax break. in terms of bringing down deductions, one way of doing that is to say everybody gets $25,000 of deductions and credits. you can decide which ones to use. your home mortgage interest deductions, charity, child tax credit and so forth. you can use those to fill that bucket of deductions, but your rate comes down and the burden also comes down on you for one more reason. every middle income taxpayer will pay any tax on interest, dividends or capital gains. no tax on your savings. that makes life a lot easier. if you're getting interest from a bank, if you're getting a statement from a mutual fund or any of the kind of investments you have, you don't have to worry about filing taxes on that. there's no taxes for anybody making $200,000 a year and less on your interest, dividends and capital gains. why am i lowering taxes on the middle class? under the last four years they've been buried, and i want to help people in the middle class. i will not, i will not under any circumstances reduce the share being paid by the highest income taxpayers and i will not under any circumstances increase taxes on the middle class. the president's spending, the president's borrowing will cost this nation to have to raise taxes on the american people not just at the high end. a recent study has shown that people in the middle class will see $4,000 a year higher taxes as a result of the spending and borrowing of this administration. i will not let that happen. i'll get us on track to a balanced budget, and i'm going to reduce the tax burden on middle income families. what's at that going to do? it's going to help families and create incentives to start growing jobs again in this country. >> thanks, governor. >> thank you. >> my philosophy on taxes has been simple. that is, i want to give middle class families and folks who are striving to get into the middle class some relief because they have been hit hard over the last decade, over the last 15, over the last 20 years. four years ago i sat on a stage like this and i said i would cut taxes for middle class families, and that's what i've done by $3600. i said i would cut taxes for small businesses who are the drivers and engines of growth. we've cut them 18 times. i want to continue those tax cuts for middle class families and for small businesses. what i've also said is if we're serious about reducing the deficit, if this is genuinely a moral obligation to the next generation, in addition to tough spending cuts, we've also got to make sure that the wealthy do a little bit more. so what i said is your first $250,000 worth of income, no change. that means 98% of american families, 97% of small businesses, they will not see a tax increase. i'm ready to stein thign that b right now. the only reason it's not happening is because governor romney's allies in congress held the 98% hostage because they want tax breaks for the top 2%. what i've also said is for above 250,000, we can go back the to the tax rates we had when bill clinton was president. we created 23 million new jobs. that's part of what took us from deficits to surplus. it will be good for our economy, and it will good for job creation. now, governor romney has a different philosophy. he was on "60 minutes" just two weeks ago, and he was asked, is it fair for somebody like you making $20 million a year to pay a lower tax rate than a nurse or bus driver, somebody making $50,000 a year? he said yes, i think that's fair. he said i think that's what grows the economy. i fundamentally disagree with that. i think what grows the economy is when you get that tax credit that we put in place for your kids going to college. i think that grows the economy. i think what grows the economy is when we make sure small businesses are getting a tax credit for hiring veterans that fought for our country. that grows our economy. we have a different theory. when governor romney stands here after a year of campaigning, when during a republican primary he stood on stage and said, i'm going to give tax cuts, he didn't say tax rate cuts, he said tax cuts to everybody including the top 1%, you should believe him, because that's been his history. that's exactly the kind of top-down economics that is not going to work if we want a strong middle class and an economy that's thriving for everybody. >> governor romney, i'm sure you've got a reply there. >> you're absolutely right. you heard what i said about my tax plan. the top 5% will continue to pay 60% as they do today. i'm not looking to cut taxes for wealthy people. i am looking to cut taxes for middle income people, and why do i want to bring rates down and at the same time lower exemptions and deductions particularly for people at the high end? if you bring rates down, it makes it easier for small business to keep more of their capital and hire people. for me this is about jobs. i want to get america's economy going again. 54% of america's workers work in businesses that are taxed as individuals. so when you bring those rates down, those small businesses are able to keep more money and hire more people. for me i look at what's happened in the last four years and say, this has been a disappointment. we can do better than this. we don't have to settle for how many months, 43 months with unemployment above 8%? 23 million americans struggling to find a good job right now. there are three and a half million more women living in poverty today than when the president took office. we don't have to live like this. we can get this economy going again. my five-point plan does it. energy independence for north america in five years, opening up more trade particularly in latin america and cracking down on china when they cheat, getting a balanced budget and fixes training programs for workers and finally championing small business. i want to help small businesses grow and thrive. i know how to make that happen. i spent my life in the private sector. i know why jobs come and why they go, and they're going now because of the policies of this administration. >> governor, let me ask the president something about what you just said. the governor says he's not going to allow the top 5%, i believe is what he said, to have a tax cut. it will all even out. what he wants to do is give that tax cut to the middle class. settled? >> no, it's not settled. look, the cost of lowering rates for everybody across the board 20%, along with what he wants to do in terms of eliminating the estate tax and in terms of corporate changes in the tax code, it costs about $5 trillion. governor romney then also wants to spend $2 trillion on additional military programs, even though the military is not asking for them. that's $7 trillion. he also wanted to continue the bush tax cuts for the wealthiest americans. that's another trillion dollars. that's $8 trillion. he says he's going to make sure this doesn't add to the deficit, and he's going to cut middle class taxes. when he's asked how are you going to do it, which deductions, which loopholes will you close, he can't tell you. the fact that he only has to pay 14% on his taxes when a lot of you are paying much higher, he's already taken that off the board. capital gains will continue to be at a low rate, so we won't get money that way. we haven't heard from the governor any specifics beyond big bird and eliminating funding for planned parenthood in terms of how he pays for that. now, governor romney was a very successful investor. if somebody came to you, governor, with a plan that said, here. i want to spend 7 or 8 trillion dollars and we're going to pay for it, but we can't tell you until maybe after the election how we're going to do it, you wouldn't have taken such a sketchy deal. neither should you, the american people, because the math doesn't add up. and what's at stake here is one of two things. either candy, this blows up the deficit, because keep in mind this is to pay for the additional spending that he's talking about. 7 or 8 trillion dollars is before we get to the deficit we already have. or alternatively it's got to be paid for not only by closing deductions for wealthy individuals. that will pay for about 4% reduction in tax rates. you're going to be paying for it. you'll lose some deductions, and you can't buy this sales pitch. nobody who has looked at who is serious actually believes it adds up. >> mr. president, let me get the governor in on this. governor, before we get into a vast array what study says what, if it shouldn't add up, if somehow when you get in there there isn't enough tax revenue coming in, if somehow the numbers don't add up, would you be willing to look again at a 20% -- >> of course they add up. i was someone who ran businesses for 25 years and balanced the budget. i ran the olympics and balanced the budget. i ran the state of massachusetts as a governor to the extent any governor does and balanced the budget all four years. when we talk about math that doesn't add up, how about $4 trillion of deficits over the last four years, 5 trillion. that's math that doesn't add up. we have a president talking about someone's plan in a way that's completely foreign to what my real plan is. then we have his own record, which is we have four consecutive years where he said when he was running for office he would cut the deficit in half. instead he's doubled it. we went from $10 trillion to $16 trillion of national debt. if the president is re-elected we go to almost $20 trillion of national debt. this puts on a road to greece. i know what it takes to balance budgets. i've done it my entire life. when he says it's a $5 trillion cut, it's not. i'm offsetting some of the reductions with holds down some of the deductions. >> governor, i need to have you both hang -- i understand the stakes here and i understand both of you. i will get run out of town if i don't allow these people -- >> i just described to you precisely how i do it with a single number that they can put their deductions and credits into that number. >> we're keeping track, i promise you. mr. president the next question is for you. stay standing, and it's katherine fenton who has a question for you. >> in what new ways do you intend to rectify the inequalities in the workplace specifically regarding females making only 72% of what their male counterparts earn? >> katherine, that's a great question. i was raised by a single mom who had to put herself through school while looking after two kids. she worked hard every day and made a lot of sacrifices to make sure we got everything we needed. my grandmother, she started off as a secretary in a bank. she never got a college education, even though she was smart as a whip. she worked her way up to become a vice president at a local bank, but she hit the glass ceiling. she trained people who would end up becoming her bosses during the course of her career. she didn't complain. that's not what you did in that generation. and this is one of the reasons why one of the first -- the first bill i signed was something called the lily ledbetter bill. it was named after this aamamai woman who did the same job as a man for years, found out that she was getting paid less, and the supreme court said she couldn't bring suit because she should have found out about it earlier. she had no way to find out about it, so we fixed that. that's an example of the kind of advocacy we need because women are increasingly the bread winners in the family. this is not just a women's issue. this is a family issue, a middle class issue, and that's why we've got to fight for it. it also means that we've got to make sure that young people like yourself are able to aaffofford college education. he wants to make pell grants and other education accessible for young people. the truth of the matter is is that that's exactly what we've done. we expanded pell grants for millions of people including millions of young women all aacross the country. we did it by taking $60 billion going to banks and lenders as middle men for the student loan program, and we said let's just cut out the middle man and give the money directly to students. as a consequence we saw millions of young people afford college, and that's going to make sure that young women compete in that market place. we have to enforce the laws, which is what we are doing. we have to make sure that in every walk of life we do not tolerate discrimination. that's been one of the hallmarks of my administration. i'll continue to push on this issue for the next four years. >> governor romney, pay equity for women. >> thank you, and important topic and one i learned a great deal about particularly as i was serving as governor of my state. i had a chance to pull together a cabinet, and all the applicants seemed to be men. i went to my staff and i said, how come all the people for jobs are all men? these are the people that have the qualifications. i said, gosh, can't we find some women that are also qualified? so we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. i went to a number of women's groups and said, can you help us find folks? they brought up binders full of women. i was proud of the fact that after i staffed my cabinet and senior staff that the university of new york in albany did a survey of all 50 states and concluded that mine had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in america. now, one of the reasons i was able to get so many good women to be part of that team was because of our recruiting effort, but number two, because i recognized if you have women in the work force that sometimes they need to be more flexible. my chief of staff had two kids still in school. she said, i can't be here until 7:00 or 8:00 at night. i need to be able to get home at 5:00 so i can be there for making dinner for my kids and being with them when they get home from school. we said, fine, let's have a flexible schedule so you have hours that work for you. we have to have employers in the new economy, in the economy i'm going to bring to play, that are going to be anxious to get good workers, they're anxious to hire women. in the last four years, women have lost 580,000 jobs. that's the net of what's happened in the last four years. we're still down 580,000 jobs. i mentioned 3.5 million women in poverty than four years ago. what we can do to help women of all ages is to have a strong economy, so strong that employers are looking to find good employees and bringing them into the work force and adapting to a flexible work schedule that gives women the opportunities that they would otherwise not be able to afford. this is what i've done. it's what i look forward to doing, and i know what it takes to make an economy work. i know what a working economy looks like. an economy with 7.8% unemployment is not a real strong economy. an economy that has 23 million people looking for work is not a strong economy. an economy with 50% of kids graduating from college that can't find a job or a college-level job, that's not what we have to have. i will help women in america get good work by getting a stronger economy and by supporting women in the work force. >> mr. president, why don't you get in on this quickly, please. >> katherine, when governor romney's campaign was asked about the ledbetter bill, whether he supported it, he said i'll get back to you. that's not the kind of advocacy women need in any economy. there's other issues that have a bearing on how women succeed in the workplace. for example, their health care. a major difference in this campaign is that governor romney feels comfortable having politicians in washington decide the health care choices that women are making. i think that's a mistake. in my health care bill i said insurance companies need to provide contraceptive coverage to everybody who is insured because this is not just a health issue, it's an economic issue for women. it makes a difference. this is money out of that family's pocket. governor romney not only opposed it, he suggested that, in fact, employers should be able to make the decision as to whether or not a woman gets contraception through her insurance coverage. that's not the kind of advocacy that women need. when governor romney says that we should eliminate funding for planned parenthood, there are millions of women all across the country who will line up to planned parenthood for not just contraceptives, but more familiar grams and sheriff cal cancer screenings. that's a pocketbook issue for women and families across the country, and it makes a difference in terms of how well and effectively women are able to work. when we talk about child care and the credits we are providing, that makes a difference in terms of whether they can go out there and earn a living for their family. these are not just women's issues. these are family issues. these are economic issues. one of the things that makes us grow as an economy is when everybody participates, and women are getting the same fair deal as men are. i've got two daughters, and i want to make sure that they have the same opportunities that anybody's sons have. that's part of what i'm fighting for as president of the united states. >> i want to move us along here to susan katricatts with a ques. governor, it's for you. >> governor romney, i am an undecided voter because i'm disappointed with the lack of progress i've seen in the last four years. however, i do attribute much of america's economic and international problems to the failings and missteps of the bush administration. since both you and president bush are republicans, i fear a return to the policies of those years should you win this election. what is the biggest difference between you and george w. bush? how do you differentiate yourself from george w. bush? >> thank you. i appreciate that question. i just want to make sure that -- i think i was supposed to get that last answer, but i want to point out that i don't believe -- >> i don't think so, candy. i want to make sure our timekeepers are working here. >> the timekeepers are working. the last part, it's for the two of you to talk to one another and it isn't quite as orderly as you think. go ahead and use this two minutes any way you like tochlt the question is on the floor. >> i just note that i don't believe in bureaucrats in washington should tell someone to ucontraceptives or not and i don't believe employers should tell them that or not. every woman in america should have access to contraceptives and the president's statement on my policy is completely and totally wrong. >> governor, that's not true. >> let me answer your question. president bush and i are different people, and these are different times. that's why my five-point plan is so different than what he would have done. for instance, we can now by virtue of new technology actually get all the energy we need in north america without having to go to the arabs or the venezuelans or anyone else. that wasn't true in his time. that's why my policy starts with a very robust policy to get all that energy in north america become energy secure. number two, trade. i'll crack down on china. president bush didn't. i'm also going to dramatically expand trade in latin america. it's growing 12% per year over a long period of time. i want to administratd more fre agreements. i'm going to get us to a balanced budget. president bush didn't. president obama said it was outrageous to have deficits as high as half a trillion dollars in the bush years. he put deficits in place twice that size for every year and it's more deficits almost that large. that's the next way i'm different than president bush. let's take the last one. championing small business. our party has been focused on big business too long. i came through small business. i understand how hard it is to start a small business. that's why everything i'll do is designed to help small businesses grow and add jobs. i want to keep their taxes down on small business. i want to regulators to see their job as encouraging small enterprise, not crushing it. the thing i find most troubling about obama care -- it's a long list, but one of the things most troubling is when you talk to small businesses, they tell you it keeps them from hiring more people. my priority is jobs. i know how to make that happen. president bush had a very different path for a very different time. my path is designed in getting small businesses to grow and hire people. >> thanks, governor. mr. president. >> well, first of all, i think it's important to tell you that we did come in during some tough times. we were losing 800,000 jobs a month when i started. we have been digging our way out of policies that were misplaced and focused on the top doing very well and middle class folks not doing well. we've seen 31 consecutive months of job growth. 5.2 million new jobs created. the plans that i talked about will create even more. when governor romney says that he has a very different economic plan, the centerpiece of his economic plan are tax cuts. that took us from surplus to deficit. when he talks about getting tough on china, keep in mind that governor romney invested in companies that were pioneering of outsourcing to china and is currently investing in countries and companies that are building surveillance equipment for china to spy on its own folks. governor, you're the last person to get tough on china. what we've done when it comes to trade is not only signed free trade deals to open up new markets, but we set up a task force for trade that goes after anybody who is taking advantage of american workers or businesses and not creating a level playing field. we brought twice as many cases against unfair trade practices than the previous administration, and we've won every single one decided. when i said that we had to make sure that china was not flooding our domestic market with cheap tires, governor romney said i was being protectionist, that it wouldn't be helpful to american workers. in fact, we saved 1,000 jobs, and that's the kind of tough trade actions that are required. but the last point i want to make is this. you know, there are some things where governor romney is different from george bush. george bush didn't propose turning medicare into a voucher. george bush embraced comprehensive immigration reform. he didn't call for self-deportation. george bush never suggested that we eliminate funding for planned parenthood. so there are differences between governor romney and george bush, but they're not on economic policy. in some ways he's gone to a more extreme place whether it comes to social policy, and i think that's a mistake. that's not how we're going to move our economy forward. >> i want to move you both along to the next question, because it's in the same wheelhouse so you will be able it to respond. the president does get this question. i want to call on michael jones. >> mr. president, i voted for you in 2008. what have you done or accomplished to earn my vote in 2012? i'm not that optimistic as i was in 2012. most things i need for everyday living are very expensive. >> well, we've gone through a tough four years. there's no doubt about it. four years ago i told the american people and i told you i would cut taxes for middle class families, and i did. i told you i'd cut taxes for small businesses, and i have. i said that i'd end the war in iraq, and i did. i said we'd refocus attention on those who actually attacked us on 9/11, and we have gone after al qaeda's leadership like never before and osama bin laden is dead. i said that we would put in place health care reform to make sure that insurance companies can't jerk you around, and if you don't have health insurance that you'd have a chance to get affordable insurance, and i have. i committed that i would rein in the excesses of wall street, and we passed the toughest wall street reforms since the 1930s. we created 5 million jobs, gone from 800,000 jobs a month being lost, and we're making progress. we saved an auto industry on the brink of collapse. now, does that mean you're not struggling? absolutely not. a lot of us are. that's why the plan that i put forward for manufacturing and education and reducing our deficit in a sensible way, using the savings from ending wars to rebuild america and putting people back to work. making sure that we are controlling our own energy but not just the energy of today but also the energy of the future. all those things will make a difference. the point is the commitments i've made i've kept. those that i haven't been able to keep, it's not for lack of trying, and we're going to get it done in a second term. you should pay attention to this campaign, because governor romney has made some commitments as well. i suspect he'll keep those, too. when members republican congress say we're going to sign a no tack pledtax pledge so we don't ask a dime from millionaires and billionaires to reduce the deficit so we can invest in education and help kids go to college, he said, me too. when they said we're going to cut planned parenthood funding, he said me, too. when he said we're going to repeal obama care, first thing i'm going to do despite the fact it's the same health care plan he passed in massachusetts and is working well. he said, me, too. that is not the kind of leadership you need, but you should expect that those are promises he's going to keep. the choice in this election is going to be whose promises are going to be more likely to help you in your life, make sure your kids go it college, make sure you ged a good-pabing job and making sure medicare and social security will be there. >> mr. president, thank you. governor. >> i think you know better. i think you know that these last four years haven't been so good as the president just described and that you don't feel like you're confident the next four years are much better either. i can tell you if you're to elect president obama, you know what you're going to get. you get a repeat of the last four years. we just can't afford four more years like the last four years. he said that by now we'd have unemployment at 5.4%. the difference between where it is and 5.4% is 9 million americans without work. i wasn't the one that said 5.4%. this was the president's plan. didn't get there. he said he would have by now put forward a plan to reform medicare and social security because he pointed out they're on the road to bankruptcy. he would reform them and get that done. he hasn't even made a proposal on either one. he said in his first year he'd put out an immigration plan to deal with immigration challenges. didn't even file it. this is a president who has not been able to do what he said he'd do. he said that he'd cut in half the deficit. he hasn't done that either. in fact, he doubled it. he said that by now middle income families would have a reduction in their health insurance premiums by $2,500 a year. it's gone up by 2,500 a year. if obama care is passed or implemented -- it's already been passed. if it's implemented fully, it will be another 2,500 on top. the middle class is getting crushed under the policies of a president who has not understood what it takes to get the economy working again. he keeps saying, look, i created 5 million jobs. that's after losing 5 million jobs. the entire record is such that the unemployment has not been reduced in this country. the unemployment, the number of people who are still looking for work is still 23 million americans. there are more people in poverty, 1 of 6 in poverty, how about food stamps? when he took office, 32 million people were on food stamps. today 47 million people are on food stamps. how about the growth of the economy? it's growing more slowly this year than last year. more slowly last year than the year before. the president wants to do well. i understand. but the policies he's put in place from obama care to dodd-frank to his tax policies and regulatory policies, these policies combined have not let this economy take off and grow like it could have. do you have an example when it worked better? yeah, in the reagan recession where unemployment hit 10.8%. between that period, the end of that recession and equivalent to today, ronald reagan's recovery created twice as many jobs as this president's recovery. 5 million jobs doesn't even keep up with our population growth. the only reason the unemployment rate seems a little lower today is because of all the people that have dropped out of the work force. the president has tried, but his policies haven't worked. he's great as a speaker in describing his plan and vision, that's wonderful, except we have a record to look at. that record shows he just hasn't been able to cut the deficit, to put in place reforms for medicare and social security to preserve them, to get us the rising incomes we need. median income is down $4300 a family, and 23 million americans out of work. that's what this election is about. it's about who can get the middle class in this country a bright and prosperous future and assure our kids the kind of hope and optimism you deserve. >> governor, i want to move you along. don't go away. we are quite aware of the clock for both of you. i want to bring in a different subject here, mr. president. i'll be right back with you. lorraine has a question for you about a topic we have not heard for governor romney and we'll be right with you, mr. president. thanks. >> is it lorraine? >> lorraine. how are you doing? >> good. >> governor romney whashgs do you plan on doing to immigrants without green cards currently living here as productive members of society? >> thank you for yur question. let me step back and tell you what i'd like to do with our immigration policy broadly and include an answer to your question. first of all, this is a nation of immigrants. we welcome people coming to this country as immigrants. my dad was born in mexo and ann's dad was born in wales. we welcome legal immigrants into this country. i want our legal system to work better. i want it to be streamlined and clearer. i don't think you should have to hire a lawyer to get into the country legally. we should give visas to people, green cards to people that graduate with skills that we need. people around the world with accredited degrees in science and math, get a green card stapled to their diploma. come to the usa. we should make sure that our legal system works. number two, we have to stop illegal immigration. there are 4 million people waiting in line to get here legally. those who have castro marques here illegally take their place. i won't grant amnesty to those here illegally. i'll put in place an employment verification system and make sure employers that hire people that came here illegally are sanctioned for doing so. i won't put in place magnets for people coming here illegally. i would not give driver's licenses to those that came here illegally, as the president would. the kids that came here illegally should have a pathway to become a permanent resident of the united states. military service is a way to have a pathway to be a permanent resident. when the president ran for office, he said he'd put in place in his first year a piece of legislation, file a bill that would reform our immigration system, protect legal immigration, stop illegal immigration. he didn't do it. he had a democrat house and democrat senate, super majority in both houses. why did he fail to even promote legislation that would have provided an answer for those that want to come here legally and for those here illegally today? that's a question i think the president will have a chance to answer right now. >> good. i look forward to it. lorraine, we are a nation of immigrants. i mean, we're just a few miles away from ellis island. we all understand what this country has become because talent from all around the world wants to come here. people are willing to take risks. people who want to build on their dreams and make sure their kids have even bigger dreams that they have. we're also a nation of laws, so what i've said is, we need to fix a broken immigration system. i've done everything i can on my own and sought cooperation from congress to make sure that we fix this system. first thing we did was to streamline the legal immigration system to reduce the backlog, make it easier, simpler and cheaper for people who were waiting in line obeying the law it to make sure that they come here and contribute to our country. that's good for our economic growth. they'll start new businesses. they make things happen to create jobs here in the united states. number two, we do have to deal with our border, so we put more border patrol anytime in history, and the flow of undocumented workers across the border is actually lower than it's been in 40 years. what i've also said is if we're going to go after folks here illegally, we should do it smartly and go after folks who are criminals, gang bangers, people who are hurting the community. not after students. not after folks who are here because they're trying it to figure out how to feed their families. that's what we've done. i've said for young people who come here, brought her often times by their parents, went to school here and pledged allegiance to the flag, think of this as their country, understand themselves as americans in every way except having papers, then we should make sure that we give them a pathway to citizenship. that's what i've done administratively. now governor romney just said that he wants to help those young people, too, but during the republican primary he said, i will veto the dream act that would allow these young people to have access. his main strategy during the republican primary was to to say, we're going to encourage self-deportation making life so miserable on folks they'll leave. he called the arizona law a model for the nation. part of the arizona law said that law enforcement officers could stop folks because they suspected maybe they looked like they might be undocumented worker workers and check their papers. you know what? if my daughter or yours looks to somebody like they're not a citizen, i don't want to empower somebody like that. so we can fix this system in a comprehensive way, and when governor romney says the challenge is obama didn't try, that's not true. i sat down with democrats and republicans at the beginning of my term, and i said, let's fix this system, including senators previously who supported it on the republican side. but it's very hard for republicans in congress to support comprehensive immigration reform if their standard bearer has said that this is not something i'm interesting in supporting. >> let me get the governor in here, mr. president. let's speak to if you could governor the idea of self-deportation. >> let me speak to the points that the president made and let's get them correct. i did not say that the arizona law was a model for the nation in that aspect. i said that the e-verify portion of the arizona law, which is the portion of the law which says that employers could be able to determine whether someone is here illegally or legally, that's a model for the nation. number two, i asked the president a question hispanics and immigrants were asked. he was asked on univision, why didn't you file legislation in your first year? he didn't answer. he said the standard bearer wasn't for it. i'm glad you thought i was a standard bearer four years ago, but i wasn't. four years ago you said in your first year you would file legislation. in his first year i was licking my wounds from being beaten by john mccain. i was not the standard bearer. he should have honored his promise to do what he said. self-deportation, let people make their own choice. what i was saying is we're not going to round up 12 million people undocumented illegals and take them out of the nation. instead, let people make their own choice, and if they find that they can't get the benefits here that they want and they can't find the job they want, they'll make a decision to go a place where they have better opportunities. i'm not in favor of the rounding up people and taking them out of this country. i am in favor, as the president has said and i agree with him, if people commit crimes, we have to get them out of the country. let me mention something else that the president said. it was a moment ago when he was describing chinese investments and so forth. >> candy, hold on a second -- >> mr. president, i'm still speaking. >> i'm sorry. >> governor romney, i'm -- >> let me finish. >> governor romney, if you could make it short. you see all these people? they're waiting for you. >> i'm going to make a point. any investments over the last eight years are managed by a blind trust. they include investments outside of the united states including in chineses. have you looked at your pension. have you looked at your pension? mr. president, have you looked at your pension? >> you know, i don't look at my pension. it's not as big as yours. >> let me give you some advice. look at your pension. you have investments in chinese companies and outside the united states. you also have investments through a cayman trust. >> we're off the topic governor romney. we're completely om integration. >> i thought we were on immigration. i want to make sure that -- if i could have you sit down, governor romney. thank you. >> i want to make sure that we understand something. governor romney said he wasn't referring to arizona as a model for the nation. his top adviser on immigration is the guy that designed the entirety of the arizona law. not e-verify, the whole thing. that's his policy and it's a bad policy and won't help us grow. look, when we think about immigration, we have to understand there are folks all around the world who still see america as the land of promise. they provide us energy and they provide us innovation. they start companying like intel and google, and we want to encourage that. now, we've got to make sure that we do it in a smart way, comprehensive way, and we make the legal system better. but when we make this into a divisive political issue and when we don't have bipartisan support, i can deliver, governor, a whole bunch of democrats to get comprehensive immigration reform done. >> i'll get it done the first year. >> we have not seen republicans serious about this issue at all. it's time for them to get serious on it. this used to be a bipartisan issue. >> don't go away, because i want to talk to karen who wants to switch the topic for us. >> okay. hi, kerry. >> what's your name? >> kerry ladka. >> this question comes from brain trust of my friends at global telecom supply. we were sitting around talking about libya, and we were reading and became aware of reports that the state department refused extra security for our embassy in benghazi, libya, prior to the aattacttacks that killed four americans. who was it that denied enhanced security, and why? >> let me, first of all, talk about our diplomats, because they serve all around the world. and do an incredible job in a very dangerous situation. these aren't just representatives of the united states. they're my representatives. i send them there. oftentimes into harm's way. i know these folks, and i know their families. so nobody is more concerned about their safety and security than i am. as soon as we found out that the benghazi consulate was overrun, i was on the phone with my national security team. i gave them three instructions. number one, beef up our security and procedures not just in libya but in every embassy and consulate in the region. number two, investigate exactly what happened. regardless of where the facts lead you us to make sure folks are held accountable and it doesn't happen again. number three, we are going to find out who did this, and we're going to hunt them down. one of the things i said throughout my presidency is when folks mess with americans, we go after them. now, governor romney had a very different response. while we were still dealing with our diplomats being threatened, governor romney put out a press release trying to make political points. that's not how a commander in chief operates. you don't turn national security into a political issue. certainly not right when it's happening. and people -- not everybody agrees with some of the decisions i've made. when it comes to our national security, i mean what i say. i said i'd end the war in iraq, and i did. i said that we'd go after al qaeda and bin laden, and we have. i said we'd transition out of afghanistan and start making sure that afghans are responsible for their own security. that's what i'm doing. when it comes to this issue, when i say that we are going to find out exactly what happened, everybody will be held accountable, and i am ultimately responsible for what's taking place there because these are my folks and i'm the one who has to greet those coffins when they come home. you know that i mean what i say. >> mr. president, i have to move us along. mr. governor. >> thank you for your question, and i think the president said correctly the buck stops at his desk and he takes responsibility for that -- for the failure in providing those security resources and those terrible things may well happen from time to time. i feel very deeply sympathetic for the families of those who lost loved ones, and today there's a memorial service for one of those lost in this tragedy. we think of their families and care for them deeply. there were other issues associated with this tragedy. there were many days that passed before we knew whether this was a spontaneous demonstration or actually whether it was a terrorist attack. there was no demonstration involved. it was a terrorist attack. it took a long time for that to be told to the american people. whether that was some misleading or instead whether we didn't know what happened, you have to ask yourself why didn't we know five days later when the ambassador to the united nations went on tv to say that this was a demonstration, how could we have not known? i find more troubling than this that on the day following the assassination of a united states ambassador, the first time it's happened since 1979 when we have four americans killed there, when apparently we didn't know what happened, that the president the day after that happened flies to las vegas for a political fund-raiser, and then the next day to colorado for another event, another political event. i think these actions taken by a president and leader have symbolic significance, and perhaps even material significance in that you hope that during that time we could call in the people who are actually eyewitnesses. we read their accounts now about what happened. it was very clear this was not a demonstration but an attack by terrorists. this calls into question the president's whole policy in the middle east. look what's happening in syria, in egypt. now in libya. consider the distance between ourselves and israel. the president said that he was going to put daylight between yus and israel. we have iran four years closer to a nuclear bomb. syria is not just the tragedy of 30,000 civilians killed by a military, but also a strategically significant player for america. the president's policies throughout the middle east began with an apology tour and pursue a strategy leading from behind. this strategy is unraveling before our very eyes. >> because we're closing in, i want to get a lot of people in and ask you something, mr. president, and have the governor just quickly. your secretary of state as i'm sure you know has said that she takes full responsibility for the attack on the diplomatic mission in benghazi. does the buck stop with your secretary of state as far as what went on here? >> no. secretary clinton has done an extraordinary job, but she works for me. i'm the president. i'm always responsible. that's why nobody is more interested in finding out exactly what happened than i do. the day after the attack, governor, i stood in the rose garden and i told the american people and the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened, that this was an act of terror, and i also said that we're going to hunt down those who committed this crime. then a few days later i was there greeting the caskets coming into andrews air force base and grieving with the families. the suggestion that anybody in my team, whether it was secretary of state, our u.n. ambassador, anybody on my team would play politics or mislead when we've lost four of our own, governor, is offensive. that's not what we do. that's not what i do as president. that's not what i do as commander in chief. >> governor, if you want to reply. >> i certainly do. i think it's interesting that the president said something which is that on the day after the attack he went to the rose garden and said that this was an act of terror. >> that's what i said. >> you said in the rose garden the day after the attack it was an act of terror? it was not a spontaneous demonstration. is that what you're saying? >> please proceed, governor. >> i want to make sure we get that for a record because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in benghazi an act of terror. >> get the transcript. >> he did, in fact, sir. let me call it an act of terror. >> can you say that a little louder, candy. >> he did call it an act of terror. it did as well take two weeks or so for the whole idea of there being a riot out there about this tape to come out. you're correct about that. >> the administration indicated that this was a reaction to a video and was a spontaneous reaction. >> they did. >> it took a long time to say this was a terrorist act by a terrorist group. am i incorrect in that regard? on sunday your secretary -- >> candy -- >> excuse me. the ambassador of the united nations went on the sunday television shows and spoke about how this was a spontaneous. >> i'm happy to have a conversation about this. i want to move you on, and people can go to the transcripts and figure out what was said. >> all the folks have a chance to get the questions answered. what i want to do is stand there for a second because i want to introduce you to nina gonzalez who brought up a question we hear a lot both over the internet and from this crowd. >> president obama, during the democratic national convention in 2008, you stated you wanted to keep ak-47s out of the hands of criminals. what has your administration done or planned to do to limit the availability of assault weapons? >> we're a nation that believes in the second amendment, and i believe until the second amendment. we have a long tradition of hunting and sportsmen and people who want to make sure they can protect themselves. but there have been too many instances during the course of my presidency where i have to comfort families who have lost somebody, most recently out in aurora. just a couple of weeks ago, actually about a month, i saw a mother who i had met at the bedside of her son who had been shot in that theater. her son had been shot through the head. we spent some time and we said a prayer. remarkably about two months later this young man and his mom showed up, and he looked unbelievable. good as new. but there were a lot of families who didn't have that good fortune and whose sons or daughters or husbands didn't survi survive. my belief is that, a, we have to enforce the laws we've already got, make sure that we're keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, those who are mentally ill. we've done a much better job in terms of background checks, but we have more to do when it comes to enforcement. i also share your belief that weapons that were designed for soldiers in war theaters don't belong on our streets. so what i'm trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how do we reduce the violence generally? part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced, but part of it is also looking at other sources of the violence because frankly in my hometown of chicago there's an awful lot of violence, and they're using cheap handguns. what can can we do to intervene make sure young people have opportunity? that our schools are working, that if there's violence on the streets, it that working with faith groups and law enforcement, we can catch it before it gets out of control. so what i want is a comprehensive strategy. part of it is seeing if we can get automatic weapons that kill folks in amazing numbers out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. part of it is also going deeper and seeing if we can get into these communities and making sure we catch violent impulses before they occur. >> governor romney, the question is about assault weapons, ak-47s. >> i'm not in favor of new pieces of legislation on guns and taking guns away or making certain guns illegal. we, of course, don't want to have automatic weapons, and that's already illegal in this country to have automatic weapons. what i believe is we have to do as the president mentioned towards the end of his remarks there, which is to make enormous efforts to enforce the gun laws we have and to change the culture of violence we have. you ask how do we do that? there are a number of of things. he mentioned good schools, and i totally agree. we drove our schools to be number one in the nation in our state. i believe if we do a better job in education, we'll give people the hope and opportunity they deserve and perhaps less violence from that. let me mention another there, and that is parents. we need moms and dads helping raise kids. wherever possible the benefit of having two parents in the home and that's not always possible. a lot of great single moms and dads. to tell our kids before they have babies they ought to think about getting married to someone that's a great idea. a two-parent family the prospect of living in poverty goes down dramatically. the opportunities that the child can achieve increase dramatically. we can make changes in the way our culture works to help bring people away from violence and give them opportunity and bring them in the american system. the greatest failure we've had with regards to gun violence in some respects is what is known as fast and furious, which was a program under this administration and how it worked exactly i think we don't know precisely. where thousands of automatic and ak-47 type weapons were given to people that ultimately gave them to drug lords. they used those weapons against their own citizens and killed americans with them. this was a program of the government. for what purpose it was put in place, i can't imagine. it's one of the great tragedies related to violence in our society, which occurred during this administration, which i think the american people would like to understand fully. it's been investigated to a degree, but the administration has carried out executive privilege to prevent all the information from coming out. i'd like to understand who it was that did this, what the idea was behind it. why it led to the violence. thousands of guns going to mexican drug lords. >> governor, if i could, the question was about these assault weapons that once were banned and are no longer banned. i know that you signed a bill in massachusetts obviously with this economy, you no longer support that. why is that given the kind of violence we see with mass killings, why is it that you changed your nimind? >> candy, in my state the pro-gun folks and anti-gun folks came together and put together a piece of legislation, and it's referred to as an assault weapon ban. at the signing of the bill, both the pro-gun and anti-gun people came together. it provided opportunities for both that both wanted. they were hunting opportunities that weren't available and so forth. it was a mutually agreed upon piece of legislation. that's what we need more of, candy. what we have in washington is a place that's gridlocked. >> so if you could get people to agree to it, you'd be for it? >> we haven't had the leadership in washington to work on a bipartisan basis. i could do that in my state and bring them together. >> go ahead, mr. president. >> first of all, i think governor romney was for an assault weapons ban before he was against it. he said that the reason he changed his mind was in part because he was seeking the endorsement of the national rifle association. so that's on the record. i think that one area we agree on is the importance of parents and the importance of schools. i do believe that if our young people have opportunity, then they're less likely to engage in violent acts. we're not going to eliminate everybody mentally disturbed, and we've got to make sure they don't get weapons. we can make a difference in terms of ensuring that every young person in america, regardless of where they come from and look like, have a chance to succeed. candy, we haven't talked about he had caeducation much, but it important to understand that the reforms we put in place working with 46 governors around the country are seeing schools that are some of the ones that are the toughest for kids starting to succeed. we see gains in math and science. when it comes it to community colleges, we are setting up programs including with mass community college to retrain workers, including young people who may have dropped out of school but are now getting another chance. training them for the jobs that exist right now. in fact, employers are looking for skilled workers. so we're matching them up, giving them access to higher education. as i said, we have made sure that millions of young people can get an education that they weren't able to get before. >> mr. president, i have to move you along here. we need to do it here. >> just one second. >> this is important. this is part of the choice in this election. when governor romney was asked whether teachers, hiring more teachers was important to growing our economy, governor romney said that doesn't grow our economy. >> mr. president, the question was done here, so i need to move along. the question was guns. >> i understand. this will make a difference in terms of whether or not we can move the economy forward for young people and reduce violence. >> i understand. thank you so much. i want to ask carol goldberg to stand up. it's for governor romney. >> the outsourcing the american jobs overseas has taken a toll on our economy. what plans do you have to put back and keep jobs here in the united states? >> a great question and important question, because you're absolutely right. the place where we've seen manufacturing go has been china. china's now the largest manufacturer in the world. it used to be the united states of america. a lot of good people lost jobs. a half a million manufacturing jobs have been lost in the last four years. one of the reasons is that people think it's more attractive in some cases to go offshore than to stay here. we have made it less attractive for enterprises to stay here than to go offshore from time to time. what i'll do as president is to make sure it's more attractive to come to america again. this is the way we're going to create jobs in this country. it's not by trickle-down government saying we'll take more money from people and hire more government workers and raise more taxes. trickle-down government has never worked here or anywhere. i want to make america the most attractive place in the world for entrepreneurs, for small business, for big business to invest and grow in america. now, we're going to have to make sure that when we trade with other nations to play by the rules, and china hasn't. they artificially holding onto the value of their currency. if they put their currency down low, their prices on goods are low. that makes them advent taj yus in the marketplace, and manufacturers nts u.s. can't compete. china has been a currency manipulator for years and years and years. the president has a regular opportunity to label them as a currency manipulator, but refuses to do so. on day one i will label china a currency manipulator, which will allow me as president to be able to put in place if necessary tariffs where i believe that they are taking unfair advantage of our manufacturers. so we're going to make sure that people we trade with around the world play by the rules. let me not just stop there. don't forget what's key to bringing back jobs here is not just finding someone else to punish. i'm going to be strict with people we trade with to make sure they follow the law and play by the rules. it's also to make america the most attractive place in the world for businesses of all kinds. that's why i want to bring down the tax rates on small employ s employers, big employers so they want to be here. canada's tax rate on companies is 15%. ours is 35%. if you're starting a business, where would you rather start it? we have to be competitive if we're going to create more jobs here. regulations have quadrupled under this president. i talked to small businesses across the country. they say we feel like we're under attack from our own government. i want to make sure regulators see their job as encouraging small business and not crushing it. there's no question that obama care has been an extraordinary deterrent to enterprises of all kinds hiring people. my priority is making sure that we get more people hired. if we have more people hired, if we get back manufacturing jobs, if we get back all kinds of jobs into this country, then you're going to see rising incomes again. the reason incomes are down is because unemployment is so high. i know what it takes to get this to happen, and my plan will do that and one part of it is to make sure that we keep china playing by the rules. >> mr. president, two minutes here because we are then going to go to our last question. >> okay. we need to concrereate jobs herd we agree we should lower our corporate tax rate. it's too high. i want to close loopholes that allow companies to deduct expenses when they move to china, that allow them to profit offshore and not have to get taxed so they have tax advantages offshore. all those changes in our tax code would make a difference. now, governor romney wants to expand those tax breaks. one of his big ideas when it comes to corporate tax reform would be to say if you invest overseas, you make profits overseas, you don't have to pay u.s. taxes. of course, if you're a small business or a mom and pop business or a big business starting up here, you have to pay even the reduced rate that governor romney is talking about. it's estimates that that will create 800,000 new jobs. the problem is they'll be in china or india or germany. that's not the way to create jobs here. the way we create jobs here is not just to change our tax code but also to double our exports. we are on pace to double exports, one of the commitments i made when i was president. that's creating tens of thousands of jobs all across the country. that's why we kept on pushing trade deals, but trade deals that make sure that american workers and businesses are getting a good deal. governor romney talked about china. as i already indicated, the private sector, governor romney's company invested in what we were called pioneers of outsourcing. that's not my phrase. that's what reporters called it. and as far as currency manipulation, it went up 11% since i've been president because we have pushed them hard. we put unprecedented trade pressure on china. that's why exports have significantly increased under my presidency. that's going to help to create jobs here. >> mr. president, we have a really short time for a quick discussion here. ipads are all manufactured in china, one of the major reasons is labor is much cheaper here. how do you convince a great american company to bring that manufacturing back here? >> the answer is very straightforward. we can compete with anyone in the world as long as the playing field is level. china's been cheating over the years. one by holding down the value of the currency, number two by stealing intellectual property, our designs and patents and technology. there's an apple store in china that's a counterfeit apple store. they hack into our computers. we have to have people play on a fair basis. that's number one. number two, we have to make america the most attractive place for entrepreneurs, for people who want to expand business. that brings jobs in. the president's characterization of my tax plan is completely false. let me tell you -- >> let me go to the president here because we're running out of the time. the question is can we ever get -- we can't get wages like that. it kaecan't be sustained here. >> some jobs won't come back pause they're low wage, low skilled job. i want high wage and high-skilled jobs. that's why we have to emphasize manufacturing and invest in advanced manufacturing. that's why we have to make sure we have the best science and research in the world. when we talk about deficits, if we're adding to our deficit for tax cuts for folks who don't need them and we're cutting investments p in research and science that will create the next apple, create the next new innovation that will sell products around the world, we will lose that race. if we're not training engineers to make sure that they are equipped here in this country, then companies won't come here. those investments are what's going to help to make sure that we continue to lead this world economy not just next year but ten years from now, 50 years from now, 100 years from now. >> thanks, mr. president. governor romney. >> the government does not create jobs. >> i want to introduce you to barry green, because he has the last question to you first. barry. >> hi, barry. >> hi, governor. i think this is a tough question. each of you. what do you believe is the biggest misperception that the american people have about you as a man and a candidate? using specific examples can you take this opportunity to debunk that misperception and set us straight? >> thank you. that's an opportunity for me, and i appreciate it. in the nature of a campaign, it seems that some campaigns are focused on attacking a person rather than prescribing their own future and the things they'd like to do. i think the president's campaign characterizes me as someone different than i am. i care about 100% of the american people. i want to 100% of the american people to have a bright and prosperous future. i care about our kids. i understand what it takes it to make a bright and prosperous future for america again. i spent my life in the private sector and not in government. i'm a guy that wants to help with the experience i have the american people. my passion probably flows from the fact that i believe in god, and i believe we're all children of the same god. i believe we have responsibilities to care for one another. i served as a missionary for my church and as a pastor in my congregation for ten years. i sat across the table from people out of work and worked with them to find new work or help them through tough times. i went to the olympics when they were in trouble to get them on track. as governor of my state, i was able to get 100% of my people insured, all my kids, about 98% of the adults. was able to get our schools ranked number one in the nation so 100% of our kids had a bright opportunity for a future. i understand that i can get this country on track again. we have to settle for what we go through. we don't have to settle for gasoline at four bucks and we don't have to settle for unemployment at a chronically high level. we don't have to settle for 47 million people on food stamps and 50% of kids coming out of college not able to get work. we don't have to settle for 23 million people struggling to find a good job. if i become president, i'll get america working again and get us on track to a balanced budget. the president hasn't. i will. i'll make sure we can reform medicare and social security to preserve them for coming generations. the president said he would, and he dent. i'll get our incomes up. i served as governor and showed i could get them done. >> mr. president, the last two minutes belong to you. >> barry, i think a lot of this campaign maybe over the last four years has been devoted to this notion that i think government creates jobs, that that somehow is the answer. that's not what i believe. i believe the free enterprise system is the greatest engine of prosperity the world has known. i believe in self-reliance and individual initiative and risk takers being rewarded. i also believe that everybody should have a fair shot. everybody should do their fair share, and everybody should play by the same rules because that's how our economy has grown. that's how we built the world's greatest middle class. and that is part of what's at stake in this election. there's a fundamentally different vision about how we move our country forward. i believe governor romney's a good man. loves his family, cares about his faith. but i also believe that when he said behind closed doors that 47% of the country considered themselves victims who refuse personal responsibility, think about who he was talking about. folks on social security who have worked all their lives. veterans who sacrificed for this country. students who are out there trying to hopefully advance their own dreams but also this country's dreams. soldiers who are overseas fighting for us right now. people who are working hard every day paying payroll tax, gas taxes, but don't make enough income. i want to fight for them. that's what i've been doing for the last four years, because if they succeed, i believe the country succeeds. when my grandfather fought in world war ii and came back and he got a g.i. bill and that allowed him to go to college, that wasn't a handout. that was something that advanced the entire country. i want to make sure that the next generation has those same opportunities. that's why i'm asking for your vote and another four years. >> president obama, governor romney, thank you for being here tonight. on that note, we have come to an end of this town hall debate. our thanks to the participants for their time and for the people of hofstra university for their hospitality. the next and final debate is monday night at lynn university at boca raton, florida. election day is three weeks from today. don't forget to vote. good night. >> no closing statements tonight, but there you have it. it will be said that a different president obama by quite a bit showed up tonight. a bit of a chill falling over the floor of the debate hall as the president wait force the first lady to join him. mrs. romney joined the governor afterwards. this is where the families traditionally have come together and greeted each other. in terms of energy, in terms of body language, in terms of flashes of genuine anger, the kind of deniro "raging bull" factor on the floor tonight, it was a vastly different event we've seen this election cycle. in terms of the phrasing that may live forever, mr. romney said binders full of women talking about cabinet level in massachusetts and it's just not true was the president's rejoinder over and over. watching this with us, members of our team beginning with david gregory, what do you make of what you saw? >> liberals can breathe a sigh of relief. a little light on his vision for the future, but he made a point of studying his opposition research on romney. as you mentioned over and over again he said what governor romney said just isn't true. romney was strong, too. wrapping the economic troubles of the last four years around the president's neck. he stumbled on this issue of libya saying that the president didn't call it an act of it terror immediately. that's just not true according to the transcript. more debate to be had on that issue, but that was definitely a stumble. you said it, brian. a lack of civility of in debate and a lack of control at times. in some cases there were interesting questions, like the comparison between romney and bush. i think voters would have benefitted from more interaction and debate within the debate. >> it went from tight controls to anarchy at another point. savannah guthrie, our friend the veteran journalist ron fornie called it a street fight. i said it was two roughnecks on a playground. >> i find it ironic since this debate was about a fight for female voters and these two alpha males at one point circling each other on the stage. there's no question in watching the performances tonight what the objectives were for each p representative candidates. the obama campaign had a good deal of success over the summer and fall for training mitt romney as this uncaring, out of touch corporate titan. clearly president obama wanted to get that image back in their minds attacking mitt romney and never letting up. mitt romney's objective was to connect with the ordinary voter. he had a softer tone and many times trying to show that elm pathetic soft side. >> chuck todd is out at the venue. savannah, always the trained attorney has just given us a great phrase, the effort to disqualify mitt romney by the obama campaign. sometimes you see the prep come to light in front of your eyes. >> you can, but it's funny you bring up a lawyer. a good lawyer should know the answer to a question before you ask it, and that's where mitt romney, i think, stomach bemumbe end on the libya question. clearly a different president obama. he came out wanting to make sure he let people know he wants a second term. he was much more engaged, definitely seemed to study the romney playbook. he took romney -- it appeared to take romney as a more serious threat there. i thought romney was rather strong for the first hour of the debate. that libya moment -- you saw the president, and we could say how did they -- you could tell that they seemed to almost practice some of their motions. it was clear the president made a decision when libya comes up, i'm going to stare romney down right in his face and vice versa. that moment is going to be one that's replayed and replayed. yes, we can debate whether what was the tone of what the president was inferring when he said act of terror at the time of libya, but mitt romney seemed to stumble and seemed to be rattled after that question. he was a different mitt romney i would argue for the last 15 minutes of that debate. overall, a sort of where does this set the race? this is one where both bases feel engaged by their guy. there's certainly disappointment in the conservative base that romney wasn't tougher on libya, but this means we're headed for a grind it out 22 days, brian. >> tom brokaw is with you, chuck todd, at the venue at hofstra on long island. tom, as the last man to moderate a town hall format debate, if that's what we can call tonight, what did you make of the event as it was packaged as it played out? >> well, i do think it was a debate. i think that on a number of issues they had a really spirited exchange with a lot of detail. obviously, governor romney wanted to go hard after energy and gasoline prices, very popular issue now at $4. also he went hard after president obama on oil production on federal land. he also talked as he has in the past about his plan for taxes insisting he's not going to give a tax cut to the number one group of the wealthiest people in america. he made a big emphasis about being a champion of small business. es he said his party has been a champion of big business for too long. he was one of the original big business creators in america. on benghazi, i won't go back over that again. i thought the president was at the most effective when he took responsibility for what happened and said i find it offensive you try to use my people to make this a political issue. the president, once again, went after those who are in the class and made sure that everybody new that governor romney was in that. women probably work best for the president tonight in terms of how he defended his position on health care and on pay. so i think they both played to their constituencies. it's the group in the middle to wait and see how they responded and heard tonight. >> i want to play a brief nip pet snippet for the greatest hits not so much for content but atmospheric. so much has been up written about the moderators from jim lehrer and martha raddatz as will be said tonight about the job candy crowley did. here is a sampling of how these two at times went after each other. >> there were a whole bunch of cuts. >> i had a question, and the question was how much did you cut them by? how much did you cut them by? >> i'm happy to answer the question. >> and it is? you're a person pushing for oil and gas and coal. you'll get your chance in a moment. i'm still speaking, and the answer is i don't believe people think that's the case. that wasn't a question. that was take statement. did you look at your pension. >> i don't look at my pension. it's not as big as yours. >> let me give you advice. >> that's how they got along at more spirited moments of the evening. we're happy to be joined by the man whose job it was to prepare governor romney for tonight's proceeding, ohio republican senator rob portman. to read a quote back to you you said before this your job was to be so annoying to governor romney during debate prep to that the president wouldn't seem so bad. how vis-a-vis his performance would you grade your own debate prep tonight? >> i think he was even more annoying than i was at times. look, the president clearly came out as a different style tonight. we knew he was going to come out swinging and he did. he tele graphed that he was going to do that. that doesn't change his record and doesn't change his vision for the future. chuck todd said earlier he didn't lay out a vision, and i agree with that. you can change your style, but that doesn't change the reality that you have a lousy record. he didn't try to defend it. you haven't laid out for the undecided voter what will change in the next four years. >> since we're quoting chuck todd, senator, he contended that governor romney appeared to stumble and was rattled after the libya exchange. were you able to see that? >> i was. i think as the fact checkers look at this and as the american people look at it, they're going to decide during that period of time and again the president did take off to go to a fund-raiser the next day, the white house continued to say what was indefensible. who knows why they insisted on laying out this image, creating this impression that wasn't true, which was there was somehow of a video responsible for the terrible night in benghazi. it wasn't. it was a flat-out terrorist attack. we know that now. brian, think about it. five days later the president sent his u.s. ambassador to the united nations out on your shows and all the sunday talk shows to say this was because of a video. why they did that, who knows. people can come up with different reasons, but clearly the president was not saying it was terrorism. the president despite 24 hours later the state department saying it it was terrorism and the president of libya saying it was terrorism, the president continued down the track saying, it's okay. it's response to a video. i think when the fact checkers look at that, that's what they'll find. >> senator rob portman, republican from ohio, had the job to preparing his man for the debate. thank you for being with us tonight, and to that point of fact, looking back at the record, what the president was hanging his argument on was his quote from that day. no acts of terror shake the resolve of this great nation. the debate was continuing back then as to whether it was a spontaneous group or part of the region-wide protest over the video. now to the other side. stephanie cutter, spokeswoman for the campaign. stephanie, what did you think of the tone and tenor of the conversation, how it played on out tonight where your team is concerned? >> i think that the president clearly dominated this debate. i think they saw -- the american people saw a strong and decisive leader because he laid out the facts. the facts of his record and where he wants to take this country, detailed plans. he also exposed mitt romney for his lack of details on his plans and how his math doesn't add up to the tax plan and doesn't add up on his jobs plan. the more he exposed mitt romney on what he was saying in his facts, the more mitt romney got combative. it was a great debate. it was a great discussion. the president is pleased. we got out a strong, decisive case why the president deserved a second techl term and we'll continue to fight for it. >> is there a chance your camp overcorrected in terms of the flashes of anger we've talked about so far tonight? >> no, absolutely not. the president was measured. you know, he corrected mitt romney where he needed to be corrected, but the president's first priority is to lay out where this country has been, what we accomplished to move this country fward over the last four years and where he wants to take the country over the next four years. we talked about many issues that mitt romney couldn't answer. his answer to what he did for women in massachusetts is that he had a binder full of women. couldn't answer whether he stands for equal pay. today after being repeatedly asked to the campaign trail whether he would sign the lily ledbetter act, he was dishonest by contraception. he's for putting bosses in charge where they can get contraception on their insurance plan. the president exposed that where it was necessary. we're very pleased with this debate. >> stephanie cutter, thank you very much for representing your side as part of our coverage tonight. we will take a break. when we come back, we will go at some of the assertions you heard on stage tonight, especially those where it seemed like one or the other had to be true. andrea mitchell will be along with that right after this. [ giggling ] [ laughing ] [ laughing ] [ laughing ] [ laughing ] ♪ humans -- even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why, at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify. see what else comes standard at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? we are back. we want to go after some of the assertions that were made and denied on that stage tonight. early on there was a big disagreement as you may recall on oil and gas production. here's the exchange. >> as a matter of fact, oil production is down 14% this year on federal land, and gas production is down 9%. why? because the president cut in half the number of licenses and permits for drilling on federal lands and in federal waters. >> here's what happened. you had a whole bunch of oil companies who had leases on public lands that they weren't using. so what we said was, you can't just sit on it this for 10, 20, 30 years and decide when you want to drill, when you want to produce, when it's most profitable for you. these are public lands. so if you want to drill on pub la public lands use it or lose it. what we did is take away leases and we're reletting them so we can actually make a profit. >> and production on government land is down. >> it's up. no it isn't. >> production is down 14% and production of gas is down 9%. >> it's just not true. >> it's absolutely true. >> now, if you're home watching thinking it's either down 14% or it's not, that's part of the role of andrea mitchell who is out at hofstra tonight and has been truth squadding to create a new verb these debates this season. who is telling the truth here? >> well, oil production did fall by 14% on federal lands on shore and offshore, brian, but that was only in one year from 2010 to 2011. it was largely the result of fallout from the deep water horizon oil spill in the gulf of mexico in 2010. mr. obama is right that since he took office oil production on federal lands is up in both 2009 and 2010 oil production increased. so even with the 14% drop last year, overall production on federal lands is still up 10.6% since 2008. one other thing in terms of natural gas production, natural gas production on federal lands is down and has been declining since 2003 according to the energy information administration mainly because of a decline in offshore natural gas drilling. brian. >> another topic early on and this has come up sporadically during the campaign. what did mitt romney say and when did he say it about, quote, letting detroit go bankrupt, more specifically general motors? the president kind of threw down on that topic tonight. >> the president was referring to a newspaper piece that romney wrote in 2008. the governor never said let detroit go bankrupt. that was a headline by the newspaper. romney is in favor of a managed bailout, a managed bankruptcy where private investors would go in and bail out the auto companies. the fact is mr. obama is correct about the fact that most people agree private companies were not about to invest in detroit back then, only the federal government would and it's paid off. >> the fact checking will go on overnight into the morning. andrea mitchell is part of our team. thank you. david gregory, as we mentioned earlier, the president hung his argument on libya. this question of terrorism predicated it on the use of the word in his remarks from the rose garden. this is going to get thoroughly hashed out. >> it is, because romney said tonight you never called it an act of terror. he uses the president does those very words in the rose garden in response to the attack. at the same time the president refers to the idea that there was some injury to islam that was no justification for violence. the reality is the administration for days suggested including on "meet the press" and our venues by susan rice that it was a sfons to the video like in cairo. it was later they determined, in fact, no, this was a terrorist act. there's all kinds of questions about security, what they knew at what particular time, gauging the threat, the terrorist threat in libya and goes to the largest question of the entire region. romney misfired on that tonight by getting caught up in what the president said in the rose garden, getting caught in that area instead of the larger issue. >> savannah we have a few seconds left. tomorrow morning on "today" we see your interview with vice president joe biden. we knew going into tonight this had the p potential to change the race. by how much is the big question. >> it is. we ask the question does it fundamentally changed minds? has anyone's image changed in a way to persuade voters to vote in a different direction or go to the polls. we aren't talking about undecided voters or swing voters but volatile voters, some who are making the decision to go to the polls. what we saw tonight is a good performance from both candidates. whether that changes the race, we'll wait and see. >> we'll be back at it monday night. before that your late local news tonight and more tomorrow morning on "today." i'm brian williams in new york, and thank you for being with us. >> you are watching wbal tv 11. live. local. late-breaking. this is 11 news tonight at 11:00. >> good evening. our big story tonight, around

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