Branch and the attorney say that they're not doing that for me they're doing that for the office of the president so I would talk about the future Trump has been in a standoff with House lawmakers about their oversight request the White House has refused to cooperate with congressional investigators who are conducting multiple probes of the president's finances in potential misconduct Democrats asked me again to testify after the special counsel report said Trump directed McGann to fire Special Counsel Robert Muller and later urged him to lie about the order ice Rosco n.p.r. News the White House President Trump was in north central Pennsylvania last night telling a rally he expects to win in 2020 you know maybe I don't know who knows politics is a crazy world but when you have the best employment numbers in history when you have the best unemployment numbers in history when you have the best economy probably that we've ever had I don't know how to help you lose this election right Trump was also in Montoro Pennsylvania on behalf of State Representative Fred Keller the Republican candidate in a special congressional election being held there today Keller faces Democratic candidate Mark free in Burke for seat that was left vacant when Congressman Tom Arenal resigned in January saying he wanted to return to the private sector a new study finds that leadership turnover caused by the hash tag me too movement is reshaping corporate America N.P.R.'s Bobby Allen reports that researchers say more chief executives are losing their jobs due to misconduct then because of poor financial performance the auditing firm p w c has been tracking c.e.o. Jobs in the world's largest firms for 19 years and with a group examined corner office changes in 2018 something jumped out for the 1st time ever sexual misconduct and other ethical lapses where the number one reason behind a c.e.o. Losing a job John Paul roller teaches leadership ethics at the University of Chicago. For companies they're also recognizing that if they don't get aggressive with this type of behavior they're going to face exceptional liabilities when it comes to court cases all told the study found that $89.00 C.E.O.'s were ousted over misconduct The researchers say more than ever corporate boards are taking a 0 tolerance stance toward allegations of bad behavior Bobby Allen n.p.r. News Washington the accused gunman in the attacks on 2 mosques in Christ Church New Zealand is now they sing terrorism charges assessed back is already charged with $51.00 counts of murder and 40 counts of attempted murder this is n.p.r. News. The federal judge who struck down a Mississippi law outlawing abortions at 15 weeks of pregnancy is set to hear arguments today on a new statute that bans the procedure once a fetal heartbeat is detected the law is being challenged by Jackson Women's Health Organization the only clinic still performing abortions in Mississippi 3 other states also have so-called fetal heartbeat laws and Alabama doctors could be sentenced to 99 years in prison for all abortions except to say the woman's life another race horse has died at Santa Anita Park in Southern California the horse was injured while racing on Sunday and was euthanized yesterday N.P.R.'s Tom Goldman reports that 25 horses have now died at Santa Anita since December a 3 year old horse named spectacular music sustained a fatal injury to his pelvis during Sunday's race this follows last Friday's fatality want to horse broke his shoulder during training and had to be euthanized track owner the Stronach group says shoulder and pelvis injuries are rare and notes before these latest incidents there'd been no fatalities either racing or training since April 1st after the initial cluster of 23 deaths in 3 months the Stronach group introduced what it calls unprecedented health and safety reforms at Santa Anita but the 2 new deaths have renewed calls for more change and for Santa needed to suspend racing until stronger measure. As are put in place Tom Goldman n.p.r. News on stock markets in Asia shares closed mixed over concerns about u.s. Restrictions on sales to Chinese tech giant Weiwei shares are up one percent in Shanghai this is n.p.r. News in Washington support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include the estate of Joan b. Kroc whose bequest serves as an enduring investments in the future of public radio and seeks to help n.p.r. Be the model for high quality journalism in the 21st century and the ne ek c. Foundation. Many thanks indeed for the latest hello the seas newspaper Lawrence and China are serious warning on the way and an examination of probabilities as well from a scientist behind that reporting to see levels rising faster and higher than we thought we'll hear an interview with an extraordinary man a Pakistani lawyer putting his life at risk to defend the country's minorities and also we'll hear from a scientist why being a mama's boy could be good feel sex life if Europe another. Let's start with that dire warning sea levels may rise by 2 meters by the end of the century double prove previous predictions it comes from new research which doesn't rely on any one particular scientific model or set of observations but instead has been formulated by 22 experts who've arrived at their conclusions utilizing a range of the latest data on the topic so pretty comprehensive that's what they want you to know in real terms 2 meters means 1800000 square kilometers of land a lot of Bangladesh Egypt's Nile Valley for example being submerged major cities London New York and Shanghai possibly having to decamped So actually how likely is it that this is going to happen to meet us really Michael Oppenheimer is professor of geoscience of Princeton University one of the office so there are 2 important fact is we should know but the 2 metres wide is it assumes a business as usual trajectory for emissions that is that will do very little if anything to restrain the use of fossil fuels century and the 2nd thing you should know is that we develop a probability distribution develop the chances that something will happen and the truth meters relates to the chance that a set of events will occur which together will have about a 5 percent probability or less of happening in others as one in 20 shot but this outcome will happen now a one in 20 shot might not sound like a lot but say if you're going to get on an airplane. They had a one in 20 chance of crashing you probably wouldn't do it well in a in a sort of analogy this is like betting a one in 20 chance that the world will gradually over the centuries slip into what's really a catastrophic situation do you also model that catastrophe to me just means want what ends up underwater how many people displaced want what food come we grow Well 1st of all literally a significant fraction of the coastal zone of the world winds up permanently inundated but long before that happens you start to get flooding due to storm surges because you know when you get a big storm the sea rises in response to the low pressure and there's a bulge of water that's pushed into the coast through the high winds that circulate the storm and that means that you get these extreme Pods essentially which are what cause extreme coastal flooding and lead to a lot of damage for instance in my country in the course of hurricanes those are the kind of events that become much more harmful if you have a higher sea level so for instance in a place like say what's that Massachusetts even on the high tide if you had 2 meters of sea level you'd be flooding a good deal of the downtown area of the city same thing in New York City and in terms of the time to avoid That's the other thing the wind which is slamming closed on off thing is as we speak how long do we have to avoid this well in some sense some sea level rise it's too late to avoid it because the client has such an inertia in the climate system that the climate change for the next 30 or 40 years no matter what we do is baked in Unfortunately sea level rise says even more inertia then temperature which means see that it would just gradually keep rising either under the most favorable emissions scenarios for basically hundreds of years but that that difference a big difference. Between an alternate sea level rise of say something around a metre and ultimate sea level rise several meters and what is mitigate to Bill you've said this a 50 percent chance of one me to rise is it possible to mitigate that because ultimately the threat under which powerful countries feel will determine how much they going to actually do about this so what could you do about your as likely as not you'll one meta well hit depends on where you live but honestly if the sea level rise does get to the meter size they were going to be a lot of places including in rich cities like New York where I live where some people are going to have to retreat they just simply not going to be able to live where they live now because already we're getting flooding on the high tide mark can 2030 days a year in some places and that's only going to get worse and it's too expensive to build a wall everywhere you just can't do it now in Northwest Europe. Long experience with defending against sea level rise and I think a lot of north west Europe assuming they can afford it we'll see construction of hard structures like walls it's not the most pleasant way to do it but it but that's what's going to happen but in other places the money isn't there or the coast is just too dispersed and too lightly populated the body and it's not going to happen and people are going to have to move away from those areas Michael Oppenheimer on the proportional chances of climate change one of the subsets of those warnings the rise in sea levels 5 percent chance of to me to rise by the end of the century Michael Oppenheimer a professor at Princeton University. You're listening to news down the b.b.c. World Service James Craig is here with the sport Good morning good morning yes some sad news this morning is the 3 time Formula One world champion Nicky Lauder has died aged 70 his family say they passed a white. Peacefully overnight with the legendary Austrian is one of the best known figures in motor racing and he took the title full Ferrari in 19751977 also again for McLaren in 1980 fall for many will be remembered for his remarkable recovery in return to racing just faulty days after being badly burned in a crash in the 1976 German grump or a well loud was given the last rites after that awful crash Well he's remembering hearing doctors predicting he would die from lung damage when that feeling came together you know really warranted Fred. And you're going to die and then you start . Going in. The brain. You know for example names. And things just to keep the brain working in the brain. Well we're joined now by the former Formula One driver John Watson he was Nicky allowed his team mates at McLaren and Braben will join an absolute legend of the sport frankly wanting him terribly sad I mean I woke up this morning at 5 o'clock and others made aware of the news and knew he was not going to be with us any longer. Floods of memories of the times we shared the problem under McLaren but even away from the racetrack improve we would meet up. For things maybe at the time never more focused but we're able to take a different perspective over it and enjoy each other's company. What was it like as a teammate economy and I will be like to. You know pit with well 1st for a great racing driver that's the 1st thing I had but being a great racing driver is not an automatic by pass to becoming a world champion it takes something more he had tons of what I would call more than that there is focus determination is intelligence his ability to draw people around him. Get people to work for him and while we you are we were in a similar team while you're racing for the team uniquely racing for yourself you have to beat your team mate if you want to win a race where you don't think you need can you how to do that while you're in that race in the ring when you had that terrible accident while your memories of that day. Of primarily the accident occurred about a minute ahead of me when I got to the scene of the other drivers that were involved had just removed Nicky from the cockpit so we took him a bit further away from the Sealy accident and got him to lie down and I knelt down and put his head in my lap and I was able to communicate and he asked of course my face I closed my face like and was able to reassure him that he was fine but we hadn't appreciated that the injuries I was going to put his life in danger were not the burns but in fact the inhalation of the toxic fumes from the burning fiberglass and that of the resins within so that only became apparent a few days later and of course even as you heard in that clip that he has thoughts about both of my going to do to ensure I don't stop living now and that was of the kind of person that Nicky was he had the rationale to know he had to save his own life in his butt and almost in a dying bed incredibly brave man was in a does it all mean death to restart the race is well in the moment to me I'm a strange and those days you know you just get on with the job the race was restarted half the field hadn't seen the incident anyway there was of a been there only a couple of us restart and you put it behind you you move forward it's a totally different kind of period in moderation history to the contemporary murderously this weekend Monaco Grand Prix they just as a world apart John thanks so much for talking to us Joe Wilson that reflecting on the sad passing of Formula One legend Nicky loud absolutely remarkable sank you James James Gregg with the spall this is news day 60 minutes past the hour business news now more news on the road between the u.s. And China the jump in straighten has issued a license that will allow u.s. Companies to keep doing business with Wally for the next 3 months Philip Hampshire is on the business desk still big news small News this is this is quite important news especially especially for u.s. Companies hoping to have the celeb products to Chinese which they then turn into a. Products The idea though here is to limit the immediate damage and political fallout attached to while away while ways not impressed it said 3 months doesn't really mean very much to it so I spoke to focus Hayes chief executive of leaders Lamey I asked him why he made of. Basically facing a short term challenge to their growth outside of China so you know the mobile phone category is completely penetrated everyone has mobile phones and it's pretty can monetize a tech isn't that different so to differentiate themselves to get growth you have to rely on either access to services which of course they've now been blocked or the quality of that brand and the Huawei brand hasn't really built an emotional relationship in the West yet it's highly visible but it's not at the level of an apple or even a Samsung So based on those 2 areas where you're going to be on the back foot in the short term the reality is they're probably not that worried about it ever very long term view and they'll be looking to what the next big players as they get over what is basically a policy decision that can be reversed but this is only 11 company if you like one corporate relationship while ways relationship with the west turn has got thousands of companies there is a whole swathe of their economy that could be affected by this well I mean trade wars have huge impacts on consumption and ultimately anyone who is buying and selling services and products across those 2 different districts is going to be somebody suffering the West is going to suffer equally by the way I mean ultimately that's a huge a consumption market that's been taken away from them so I think trade wars are races to the bottom it's a game of chicken in a way and hope it won't last too long because we'll all feel it what's your feeling about what the end game is here because it doesn't at the moment really look like either side is likely to back down and of course it in the Far East there's this concept of face so given that it's not quite so public how the railways can avoid the site save face. You know to the Chinese is that salute cork or cultural norm and even the. Came out today saying that they're actually not backing down in the face of American pressure I think ultimately you're looking at a long a longer term battlefield this is a skirmish little skirmish that will come and go I would have thought the big battlefield is for 5 g. Infrastructure development so the Chinese technology is miles ahead of Western technology for building the 5 g. Infrastructure and hallway offering those services to government at a seriously discounted rate so they'll be a big tussle between the pursuit of national security and then consumers who will want the fastest access to the Fosters web data in the fastest mobile experience so who will win out of that also we're not sure we've never seen such a tussle like that in the market before and I think that's where the real conflict will be. There you go that was focused chief executive of the league is telling me well many thanks Now last week we reported that b.b.b. Christian woman who spent 8 years on death row in Pakistan for blasphemy had finally been flown to Canada where she's been given asylum she faced numerous death threats from those who believed she she should have received capital punishment even after she was acquitted of the charge now a case is far from unique with many charged since the law was tightened in the 1980 s. But dozens more recently her lawyer Saif on the Luke who got her off death row has now taken on another such case this is a case of a married couple who are accused of sending blasphemous text messages will explain that in just a moment ever when Mr I'm a look a man into the studios he began by telling us that he does believe that he is also at risk because of his work and can be sure that any woman you know than. Men of an unknown Cylon 31st October and my friends in the European Union and in diplomat. Small Fry They didn't lead me good luck hard listening put me in the plane and. And Ellender didn't need a lan need to learn a great kid off mean big government prominent residence for me my family I said but I can still hear. Us He hands review was burning. Had I not been there. Have Been Going to the car well that is one case which has now moved on a series with her family in Canada you tell us about the. That yours is still. The 2nd christian woman named courser who has been sentenced to death since 2014 along with the husband on the allegation that she sent text messages abusing the Muslims brought for a moment and that is a capital just to remind listeners I mean abuse of the prophet is a serious as it gets old had been sentenced to dat she requested me that you should take my case and then a vent to mete out in the prison. Means that she is no overtaken the same day where I used to meet does have you're joking the same same death now the case against her is based on sending a text message the text messages was sent in English they were written I got they were suspended in English language. It was a bit peculiar Yeah and they didn't totally uneducated Dukan. No evidence under that calling it a minute you know if they count right and they can't speak English they're on death row so sending a text message in English or in English yes. I mean in English words meant in Pakistani language using the n b c d right so they can do the prosecution rather than the do you want to bring on the record that you created let me ask about the law itself because there are people who would say it's actually quite reasonable to have a blasphemy law so in the case of Pakistan is it the blasphemy law that you think is badly constructed or is it the application of the law I think it's only in the application because the law is that you ground to be used the proffered So what's wrong with the application application is that the venom of the celebration comes Firstly people demobbed wants to kill him the accuser. Many goes to the police station did tall and hundreds of these religious clerics surround the police station and preach this under to these more. Devout of the sun then it comes to the trial court that a judge is sitting who is surrounded by $500.00 more. Normally does this since they're very uneducated and they don't have money to get a good lawyer but this law is a reflection of what majority Pakistan society want I say no it is the minority who wants these doth then ready to kill and 30 to die it's a salon brush the. Missing from Bangladesh governess in the month the thing and I don't know which day you have to balance this news that. Has been going I don't. Do you fear that they will come. This is the God's will for doesn't. I think you. Should do my duty. Don't. Nobody to take the cases that's interesting so you know you have as you think in your way that you are doing God's work. God's couldn't if you kill one in the 3rd person than in cause. Who. Now that's interesting because you are accused of being in opposition to theology conservative theology to Pakistani theology to Islam in certain forms but you here you are a defender of human rights who is saying actually you are a Muslim defender of human rights and saying it and the more these people. That you could 99 guilty instead of convicting. That Saif al my look who was until recently lawyer successfully for b.b. Now taking on similar cases as you had held in the same jail cell. Primate research now is fascinating this inevitably has a sort of an introduction a background. In sort of human jokes about pushy mothers eager to arrange a good marriage for their sons to eligible women but nobles do it the bonobo chimps a study has found that the mothers of Bernardo chimps are so concerned about their son's sex life and procreation that they drag them over to potential partners and make sure that they copulate with the right ones as good solid evolutionary reasons for this of course and here to tell us more from the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig is Martin saw back. If you spend we're either going to see these females who try to intervene with other males me King and try to friend out of me of of from copulations that have been that are not new and it turns out these or very sickly mothers are for me it was so they actively involved and made competition and they also held their sons to higher ranks in the community that's kind of unusual because you would expect with the Usually I mean the model is these males are more aggressive than females the males would do this for themselves and that's the kind of the classic pecking order that you see in most animals are but nobody's different therefore yes the big difference in one of us is that females actually have very high status within society so often the highest ranking individual in the group is a female and I think you could be additional leverage that to females have received all of us. And that's interesting so that means it's the female who is concerned with the passing on one presumes of her own genetic material the reserve genetic evolutionary drive of this just what you're suggesting yes because her behavior of what she basically can do is she can increase the number of her grandchildren or through their sons and why wouldn't other species do this because they are male lead not female lead Yeah I think that is one part of it but then again most other anymore it's normally been able to leave the need for a group where the few minutes remain now for chimpanzees and bonobos male always remain basically at home and you find therefore adult males who still have their moms around so they stay with the mom and they have more sex and more partners so if there were more. That helps them as well or to a certain degree to increase their children they go how do they do that than they do they drag them to an available female they don't literally drag them into available females No but I mean if. Tried to interfere with the meeting. Because of one of these kind of females in that basically in the shadow of the moms that males can access the central positions with. Them as well to interact more with other females including interesting ones you see that's fascinating so they have a habit do they of charging couples having sex if they don't want that couple to be copulating they will charge and push them off and pull them apart. Or. What. Are their feet calling him or from the female I think that's. As funny as he gets another nose yes. Postulating insight into what happens in. Mobo makes you happy for Martin subject who spent a lot of time watching that he's from the Max Planck Institute thanks for that more online on our website this is Lawrence China saying hello thank you join us again tomorrow on Tuesday. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service in the us was made possible by American Public Media producer and distributor of award winning public radio contact. American Public Media with support from Raymond James offering personalized wealth management advice and capital markets expertise with a commitment to putting clients' financial needs 1st find out more at Raymond James dot com. Thanks worsening to w.a.b. You were a.t.l. Meets n.p.r. I'm Kevin Rinker when a weather sunshine and hot through the rest of the week including today is this afternoon around 90 getting down to 69 overnight Wednesday a high low ninety's and then around 91 again on Thursday this is w.a.b. Thank you and. We're celebrating emerging artists as well as George's iconic a man of vision is on the next city lights the Atlanta contemporary opens there are to studios to the public and Paradise garden throws there and he will Howard Finster fast joint Lois writes us for city lights at 11 am On w $84.00 a.t.l. Meets n.p.r. And. B.b.c. News with Gerry Smit the founder of the Chinese technology firm way has said the confrontation with the United States was inevitable because his company's global ambitions threaten the u.s. Interests run young face said the company had prepared for u.s. Retaliation stockpiling computer chips on a large scale. Police in New Zealand have added a charge of terrorism against the Australian man accused of murdering $51.00 people during the Christ Church mosque attacks is the 1st time that such a charge has been brought before the courts in New Zealand. 5 imprisoned cattle and separatist leaders who've been elected to the Spanish parliament in Madrid have left jail to be sworn in as M.P.'s they're expected to be returned to prison afterwards conservative and center right M.P.'s say they will try to stop them from taking their seats. Scientists have warned that global sea levels could rise far more than predicted due to an acceleration of the rate to which ice is melting in Greenland and Antarctica they say this could endangered major cities and said merge March to Bangladesh and then our valley. Official results from Indonesia show Joko Widodo was as expected reelected as president in last month's vote the Electoral Commission released its final tally a day earlier than charges because of fears of arm rest thousands of soldiers have been deployed across Jakarta. Voters in Malawi are choosing a new president and parliament President Peter military go through $78.00 is running for a 2nd term his challengers include his vice presidents Wallace Chile mayor he is using include high food prices unemployment and corruption. One of the best known figures in motor racing the 3 time Formula One Mo world champion Niki Lauda has died he was 70 the Austrian driver was best remembered for his recovery from a near fatal crash in 1986 b.b.c. News welcome to the program that looks at how women are shaping the world this is the conversation I'm Kim Jack and it's that each week I bring together 2 women from different countries to discuss something they have in common a profession a passion or an experience when it comes to aging the message most often peddled in magazines on billboards and in beauty stores is to delay it by all means necessary by tightening tweaking buffing and botox ing all you wrinkles and creases away it just treated as a problem to be solved and it's no wonder because for many women getting all that comes with a price invisibility my guests today are resisting the notion that aging has to be a negative experience they are instead redefining what it means to enter that later stretch of life and are living it on the own terms. Isabel Allende is one of the most well read Spanish language authors in the world she's best known for her 982 novel the house of the spirits which chronicles the lives of a family in an unnamed Latin American country over generations Isabel is from Chile but is now based in California Isabel Welcome thank you for having the program Kim and Lynn Siegel is the feminist campaigner and author of the book out of time the pleasures and perils of aging originally from a straight Lynn now lives in London where she's a professor of psychology and gender studies at the college let me welcome. Isabel in your vote 76 years old Isabel when did you feel that you were being marginalized looked as an older woman I'm 76 and I'm still waiting for that moment the truth is that I don't feel marginalized I am very short so I have always been invisible but I am flashy I dress in bright colors and I never feel that I am not noticed I make noise but when we're talking in numbers he's winded old age start for you Lynn. Well I think like Isabel I've been incredibly lucky because I'm still teaching and that means that one is in touch with the younger people that you have a certain authority in the classroom and so it's a wonderful position to state to feel that people who listen to you on the other hand in my late fifty's a relationship I've been in for 15 years broke up and that's when I realized it was hard to be a woman don't you and I don't just a difference actually because in a lesbian world you saw the people still found you attractive and you looked at you but in the straight world it was much harder to be sexy and be noticed so when did you change your gender preferences about a. Yes I did after a few years yet for you yes I do have a female partner now although I still find that men sexy Isabel thinking about numbers I know you said that you don't feel marginalized but when you think about old age is there a particular age that for you that kind of illustrated that people are starting to see me as an older woman now not a moment but I know when I turned into my cure or woman which is not the same as an old woman and that was also a clean sage when my daughter died and after that experience everything changed for me all the stuff that had been so important when I was younger ceased to be important and I became a different person I think a better person probably. Showed at that moment much more than before because I had photographs of before and after and in a matter of months I was I had aged physically so Isabel when we talk about how women are expected to age is it different in South America as compared to in the u.s. . I think that in the us special in California where I live there is an obsession with youth and beauty and success in Latin America and Chile it depends on the social class if you have the resources you might be expected to h. Like in the United States preserve a younger look for as long as possible but if you do not have those resources you age naturally like in many places in the world where women after menopause are not expected to be sexually attractive but to participate in the community to serve family matters and when do you think the experience of ageing is different for men I think it's very different in many ways I mean 1st of all women are aged by culture that's an expression of but Simone de Beauvoir and Margaret Goulet that women age by culture far earlier than men age so what does that mean though women are each bikeway were seen as for instance too low for romance but also when moved from any front stage in jumps way move from being on television or serving in shops and so on it's much harder for older women to keep their jobs and it is for older men but men do worry about ageing they particularly worry about the fact they fail you know they worry about impotence and other things like that which is why I agree it was the fastest selling drug when it was marketed in the mid 9090 so they do worry about ageing when it's a lot of women as it's about said actually find other ways of relating to their families and to the world as older women I'm just a little suspicious of that argument because I'm not sure that we so easily give up on the desire to be noticed and to be loved and I don't see why out. Desires to change so much when men's don't seem to change at all so there's some imbalance there that I'm a little suspicious of. Now it's interesting to me that if you look at Western fairy tales for example the face of evil is often an old woman you know the queen who poisoned Snow White the only lady in Hansel and Gretel he wants to roast the children with the words and the Little Mermaid Why do you think Isabelle that all the women are seen in this way. Because they are fear and I think that in most cultures women have a submissive role and when they have knowledge wisdom and they don't care about what other people think about them they become very powerful and that is threatening especially to men I don't know if Lina agrees it's true that older women are treated because they're often less embarrassed about saying what they think but I also think it's because going right back in history older women often were very very powerless so although they asserted themselves they often didn't have any money or status if they were on their own so if you think of witchcraft between the 15th and 18th century the majority of women who are executed during those years hunted down and executed were older women women living on their own so you know they were but it was Uri very hard women who had but those women have power they had knowledge of plans of medicine of war or witchcraft or whatever that made them scary to the society and to maintenance Actually I think both things are true I think they did have a certain knowledge but I also think that they lacked power as well and that's what made their conditions so Hosh that people were scared of them but they didn't have the power to defend themselves and so that's a very difficult situation to occupy Well let's move on because I want to talk about the language around aging and I've noticed that in marketing times when we talk about age it's often in militarized language you have to combat those wrinkles and tackle those grey hair is is about how important is language when it comes to talking about getting older Well language is always important it's important when we talk about gender for example or race but I think that now we're more careful in advertising it's not so much about. Emphasising the horror of aging but about emphasizing what is the uniform about aging now you see many models that have white hair and are women in their sixty's or seventy's which is good in a way I think it's a little more complicated than that because I still think in many people's minds aging is seen as a type of seamless decline but wearing courage not to age or tour that is to say we feel young and to look young and act young so there isn't an idea that we should be aging well which is not to show our age and that seems to me a little problematic particularly because we can't stay forever young because we will become more vulnerable and more fragile in certain ways although in other ways we're still just as important and significant in the world as we ever were I'm a little skeptical of feeling that we should agree that we must try and remain forever young rather than stressed the importance of actually aging of actually being towed is about what would you say that. I do feel younger than my age and I think that it's a matter of health and how you feel in the world if you have purpose if you have relationships you look older of course you do you look old but inside you are not decrepit you are not waiting for death my mother died at 98 recently and she was perfectly lucid and her body was the body of a 98 year old woman not her mind or her spirit. So I could never see her that old I saw the she was really was I'm surrounded by older women and I don't see them all it doesn't seem to matter I know that both of you are embracing new age but would you ever being consider plastic surgery. You know I feel I don't know and I certainly don't condemn people who do though I find it very problematic because only certain people will have access to such that surgery and but I don't want to take any moral line on it except to say I think it's very problematic because I want to encourage people to embrace their aging but also I want to fight ageism fight the idea that there's something wrong with wrinkles something wrong with looking old and so I certainly don't welcome it but I don't condemn people who might use it is about what's your position would you have a concern ask your I had I had plastic surgery before I still late for me to have it again. 76 there's nothing much you can to really but I'm very happy I did it and you think Isabelle that there's a contradiction between embracing growing older and agreeing to go under the knife and after last exaggerate probably because there is a contradiction but wouldn't it be also a contradiction to taint your hair or to try to dress according to fashion or whatever I don't think that getting old means that you have to have always sturdy shoes and gray hair a lot of wrinkles and you can't avoid them but there's not anything bad about it it's just that the matter of personal taste and personality have a very public life and I like to look the best I can well let's talk about that is a value approach to the aging process you like to look the best you can what else do you do for aging I give my brain active I think that's. The most important to be curious I lurked engaged to have purpose in my life to be love that has helped me a lot I mean people lately have been saying that I look 20 years younger but that's because I mean I have I don't know how much how long that will last but I'm enjoying it well tell us about that love that's keeping you raised us and happy God to my former husband died a week ago and he was a good friend and we were together for 28 years and the last years were not very good and eventually we separated when I was 72 and of course I thought at the moment that I would spend the rest of my life alone so I we sold the big house that we had and I moved with my little dog to a cottage that has only one bedroom with the idea that I would live happily in a very contained space well that life is full of surprises one day a guy heard me on n.p.r. In New York on the radio and started emailing me every morning and every night for 5 months until we finally met and he mediately proposed marriage which I'm not willing to do why would anybody get married at any age oh my God it's horrible and then whew morphed into my house so now we are a little crowded in that small place but we've been living together for 14 months and I have never been happier in a relationship ever so people ask me journalists mostly ask me how is it to fall in love at $76.00 it's the same us falling in love at 20 but with a sense of urgency how many more years do we have maybe 5 maybe 10 if we're very lucky and then life will condemn us to probably illness or mental illness who knows so we're enjoying every minute with that feeling. The Virgin see . And we have an all time for bed in a song for little things you know that's a lovely. Little you recognize that I can partly recognize it as a lovely story and I'm very happy to hear it and I have friends in their seventy's who've just fallen in love again as well and it can be really beautiful it's incredibly important to me that I have younger friends I have the most wonderful friends my age but I do have a lot of new friends and almost every year I've formed new friends new younger friends I'm surprised I've actually managed it but that makes me very very happy I think that's very important to actually see that young people just turn away from you but do try and build bridges and they're interested in hearing what it's like to be old actually and that that just makes me feel extremely happy but also extremely privileged because I think it's going to be much harder for some people not to be sidelined and not to be rendered invisible and I'm not talking about people being very very old oh you know having really very serious terminal illnesses but just needing a little more care and that's what I think our society is finding it harder and harder to give people. And let's pause there for a moment to remind you that you're listening to the conversation my guests are 2 women who see getting older as something to embrace and not fear they are the usually successful Chilean author Isabel I ended a and that was straight academic and feminist campaigner Professor Lynn Siegel now Isabel you've spoken about living life passionately what you mean by that in my case it's to be engaged I have a foundation and the work that my foundation dances with women address in many places just that work keeps me going I get to. Meet extraordinary people most of them very young some of them are survivors of the most horrible situations of atrocities and they not only survive they get back on their feet and they become leaders in their communities all that keeps me passionate about that kind of work that I do and then and there either Every book is a new challenge is new things that I have to learn lots of research and I'm passionate about that I just love it and then of course now I'm passionate about Roger which is also a good thing and I love my dog. And then when you think about what you gain as he grew What would you say you've gained as he raised. You know I don't think we necessarily become wiser or gentler but hopefully many of us do gain a little more knowledge and a little more tolerance and while I never want to give up altogether on the passions of my youth particularly the political passions or any of the passions of my youth I do feel I can reflect on what might have been some of the shortcomings I might be more open to many different perspectives but I completely agree with Isabelle that you have to engage with life and that's what living passionately is it's so wonderful to be out in the world celebrating something with other people particularly if you feel you've had a hand in creating it so just being able to relate to the world in this meaningful way Stu to feel some sort of agent in the world that's what I see as living life Ashley I totally agree with Lynn in this and I think that you don't need to have a public like a political life a life of activists to have that because I've seen that being engage with others for example my my daughter in law's mother who also died recently was an Italian lady that had no other life and her family and she was engaged in the lives of everybody making the lives of everybody a little better with baking cookies were being there when someone was sick with listening with having Christmas and New Year's parties so that kind of thing Gage money so also very important that's purpose Oh I think so absolutely it's Isabel What do you think you've gained as you've aged. And knowledge of myself I know who I am better before I was like trying to be someone. I would give you just a very simple example I know which colors I can use and which callers I look terrible on so if I go into a shop I don't even look at the rack with the grays and they're on the bus tails and the pings because that's not me so in that that doesn't minimal example but in the same way I know that I don't like crowds I don't like big parties I cannot be in a cocktail party because being my stature everybody's shrimp fall on my head so I am not going to be in a cocktail party before I would try to wear high heels to blend in now I don't so knowing who I am so I don't waste time scattering my resources all over the place that I have learned and it's very helpful it makes my life much simpler I. Didn't want to thank people are afraid of getting older. There are so many reasons to be afraid of getting older I mean everything about aging really does come with a negative stigma and so that's why and I think when we retire aim aging It can't just be that we can stay useful it has to be that there are aspects of being old in the world where we can think back on our long lives and say let's wish everybody else a long life and if they're going to enjoy their long life then they're going to have to find places and interest in gauging with older people and so you know we have to value the old we have to realize what it is to have lived for centuries you know almost then and to understand the world personally you know as well as in terms of all the public events that happen in life. Isabel is aging something we have to have I am in a very privileged position for aging but most people when they age they become poorer 1st of all because there are not enough resources for a strong as we live now then you fear illness of course and you fear loneliness the great Kurz of old age is that you become very lonely for many reasons most people fear that to end up strapped in a wheelchair in a nursing home and nobody this is doing and nobody caring for them in some place so Isabel how could we do it better as a society you know society needs us as we try to take care of all the children by giving them education and daycare and health and whatever getting our kids need we have to do the same with the old people my mother often would say to me what would I do without you you were supporting us and I would say well you supported me for 20 years until I could be independent so now it's my turn but that happens more in an extended family than it happens nowadays in this more families where apartments are very small you cannot have the grandparents living there and there's no time everybody has 2 jobs so I think that's what we have to work on integrating people more I think that is both a count of loneliness and isolation and no age is absolutely right I don't agree that we don't have the resources we don't use the resources in the right way there's a lot of money still in the boat and money is a peculiar thing which we're responsible for its distribution and it's not that we don't have the resources it's that we don't use the resources and put them into cad as a global crisis of care because we're not putting the money into caring for the elderly so that's what has to change I think is wonderful to think about that and to think about as oh people. How we can try and be part of you know remaking the world anew into a caring and nurturing world now is about you've had great success in your life you sold millions of novels around the well then you're one of the most widely read Spanish language authors of all time when you look back at your own life what do you see as your biggest achievement my children Nicole last time power problems no longer here but she still with me and Nicole last is my friend my pillar my companion he's the most important person in my life but that is my greatest achievement but you have all these literary achievements as well yes but you know what Kim all that happens in the very 30 all success and celebrity and all that happens in an outer circle the inner circle of who you are and how you live is very small it's just you and a very few people in every Do you private secret sacred place and that's where I live and in your life well lived when you look back what are you proudest of. I think for me I would have to look further outwards and say. All that I feel. Being able to do alongside others you know in the early days of feminism in trying to hold back the worst aspects of the times of a stereotype and just being able to find other hands to hold I have a son he doesn't on the whole you gauge in my political activities that we have a very private personal relationship of course but I think that that broader engagement with friends and with the world is perhaps what I would most value. Isabel if you were to give advice to your younger self what would that be. Probably don't do so much come down don't work so hard you don't need 3 jobs just live with less Don't be so i'm bishops success is not important what is important is how you feel about yourself that's a kind of thing I would I say to my grandchildren actually. Lynn and fighting for your younger self Yes but how we feel about our so also comes from how other people see as but certainly to the younger self be able to live more in the present and not only think about the future and of course because I that holistic important in my life with how do we create a better world and in fact you know in many ways the world is less like I want you to to be individually women like me have done incredibly well you know we have opened things up but for other people life is Scott harder and of course how to enjoy the moment you know how to watch that drop of moisture falling from the leaf and they say you know how to really appreciate the world around you and to be surrounded by people who also want to appreciate living in the present as well as thinking about the future and how things do need to change I agree with Lynn that having had from very young age the desire to change the world to end the patriarchy to work for peace gives your life so much energy so much warmth and connects you to people so that's wonderful Isabelle and Lin thank you both very much thank you thank you for having me came my guests today when Segal author of Out of time the pleasures and perils of aging and Isabel Allende one of the world's most widely read Spanish language authors I'm contract and it's her turn next time. This is a member supported 90 point one w.a.b. Atlanta's choice for n.p.r. . If that old car truck you've been saving for the kids isn't really cool or safe enough for them anymore consider donating it to the w.a.b. Nation program to take care of everything pick up. Just 66901 w a b e and thanks to. The next closer look it's a problem many cities are facing limited housing options for lower and middle income families but there are new findings from the city of Norcross that explore the role of extended stay hotel and the barriers residents face in finding permanent housing also a new billboard campaign called The Truth and trafficking to raise awareness. On 90 point one. This week on people fixing the world we're talking cattle farming and a way to reduce the amount of greenhouse gases cows jeeps when we think of ranches we might think of dust bowls cattle roaming across acres and acres of land or huge founds where the cows every grain we're going to Columbia and visiting farms why big open pastures have been replaced with Bushies and woodland is better for the environment and the farm is so white and all of the country's ranches switched to this way of doing things I thin the they keep growing Mnemosyne the tragedies turn away because they.