Transcripts For WABC Here And Now 20160228

Interrogations in an effort to ensure that confessions are voluntary and not coerced. Joining us today is jeffrey deskovic. His coerced confession to a murder cost him 16 years behind bars. That is until dna evidence cleared him. Also here is dr. Matthew johnson, or professor matthew johnson, i should say. He is a psychology professor from John Jay College who has done research on false confessions and wrongful convictions. Thank you both for being with us this afternoon. Thanks for having us. Im gonna start with you, jeffery. 16 years behind bars for something you didnt do. How did all that play out . What role did your confession play in your conviction . That was that was the only piece of evidence that they had. Basically i was interrogated for seven hours, driven out of county, threatened, and given false promises. It was not recorded. Details out of their testimony, and i was wrongfully convicted despite a negative dna test. How old were you . I was 16 when i was arrested, 17 when i was convicted. I wasnt free again till 32. Ugh. And this was a rape conv this was a rape and murder. Yes. Did you confess . Did you Say Something that would seem to indicate you had actually done this crime . I gave a coerced, false confession, because i was interrogated for seven hours, and i was threatened, and they gave me false promises. I was totally overwhelmed psychologically and emotionally. And what was the breakthrough that lead to revising your case and ultimately getting you out of prison . Further dna testing through the dna data bank not only reaffirmed my innocence, but also identified the actual perpetrator, whose dna was only in that database because left free while i was doing time for his crime, he committed an unrelated murder 3 1 2 years later, killing a schoolteacher and mother of two. Now and you came out youve gone to school, youve gotten your phd and then a masters degree. Masters degree, im sorry. I just elevated promoted you, didnt i . Maybe in the future i will get one. And you have really made this your lifes work, to make sure that it doesnt happen to anyone yes. I took some of the compensation that i got, and i started the organization the Jeffery Deskovic foundation for justice, which we work to prevent this through raising awareness and seeking policy changes. But we also work to free people that it has happened to. Now i want to bring you into this conversation, dr. Johnson, cause youve pointed out youve written quite a bit on this, sort of, what you call a curious gap. Yes. In legislation. Talk to me about that. Yes. Yes. The fact that we want to make sure that people are not coerced. But then the thing that would allow us to see exactly whats said in that room its not in place, at least in new york state. Yes. Yes, sandra. You know, i refer to it as a peculiar gap. New york state actually has prohibits certain types of interrogation tactics. But the difficulty with that being effective effective rule or law is that the police are not required to preserve the record of the interrogation. So, as jeffery indicated in his case, he was taken into custody by police, questioned for many, many hours, and they did not record what they said to him, and how it was conducted. So at the end, when he as he said, hes 16 years old, hes terrified, hes traumatized, he hasnt had a lawyer, hes been away from his family. Mmhmm. And they use this goodcop badcop routine to coerce a confession from him theres no record of the tactics that they used, and he gave in. Also, his case involved a false polygraph, which is a feature in many false confession cases. Mmhmm. False polygraph feedback. So, he was convicted, and he served his 16 years. And, you know, gratefully, hes out, and hes made a tremendous. Tremendous accomplishments. But he lost 16 years of his life. He lost 16 years. Unusual. Theres a series of cases in new york state where this has been a problem. And i think one of the most central park five. Certainly. The central park five. Yes. And perhaps it could have made a big difference had those kids confession been on had we known exactly what happened to those juveniles when they were taken into custody and what the interrogation techniques that were used against them. And its interesting that, you know, there are definite rules about, you know, what you can use, what you can ask people how you interrogate them. Yes. But theres nothing that proves how you that you actually followed the rules, because theres no theres no record of it. They dont preserve the record. All other legal documents or legal evidence tends to be preserved so they can be reviewed, but the interrogation is not preserved. Can i just add this is like a twoway street, also. Not only would this prevent wrongful convictions, but its it would protect honest cops from false allegations of coercion. And also makes for better evidence, as well. So its really a winwin scenario. So, it would be good for everybody in the situation. It would be good for everybody in the situation. Why do you think there has been such a reluctance on the part of lawmakers to you know, to make this the law of the land . Or at least the law in this state. Well, there are a variety of things. I think the chief is that there are many forces in Law Enforcement that want to continue to keep interrogations secret, and they dont want there to be a record of exactly how they conduct interrogations. And, somehow or other, i think that they have been able to be influential in terms of obstructing this becoming law. Mmhmm. Now some states there are only 17 states that do require that Police Record interrogations. So its not like all states do it. And among the 17 states, there are variations in terms of how laws are worded. In some of the states that have judicial ruling with the High Court Ruling in the particular state. For example, in new jersey, new Jerseys Supreme Court has required it. So, perhaps, that may be an option, a way to go here. I know you wanted to no. Go ahead. You wanted to add something, jeffrey. Yeah. Just what i wanted to add is that i also i agree with dr. Johnson. But i want to add that somehow recording interrogations, which is really about the accuracy of the process, has come to be seen as tantamount to being soft on crime, which ties to the political planks that a lot of the politicians run on. You know, weve gotten the legislation passed in the assembly. We have not gotten it passed in the senate. The senate happens to be republican at this time, and they often run on this run on those type of planks. And how often is this an issue, or is it an issue more often with suspects, if you will, of color . Oh, most of the it most often is affecting minorities. Although, wrongful convictions and most often it happens to minorities. Yes, and further, theres reason to believe that from Research Studies as well from reports from archival record that Police Interrogate suspects from minority communities differently. Mmhmm. That is that theyll take greater latitude, and they may be more so, you have that fact operating. Thats another reason why its important for there to be a record of exactly what happens. Yeah. But among the confirmed false confessions, you have predominance of suspects. But this is something that people from a variety of different ethnic backgrounds have suffered from. Obviously. Sure. Now, on march 3rd, both of you are going to be involved in a Panel Discussion about this issue. Tell me a little bit about that. Youre gonna be moderator, and youre gonna be on the panel. This is actually an outgrowth of a commentary that i recently wrote back in december that was the peculiar gap in new york state interrogation law. And, essentially, i sort of talked about the problem with the fact that there was no law requiring the police to preserve the record of the interrogation. I cited jeffreys case, i cited central park five case, i cited martin tankleffs case a variety of other cases, cause its a series of people, recently the Pedro Hernandez case a number of cases. And trying to bring in the academics, people from Law Enforcement, people from our criminal defense to look at this issue and see what we can do to try move this reform for it. And force people to listen. Yeah, well, thats the other thing, too, is, i mean, the value in having myself participate not just as an advocate, but also as the first person who was impacted by it, as well as johnny hincapie, who was released not too long ago, who was in for 25 years on a falseconfession case. When you have people there that academicize it, and we more put it in flesh and blood in person. And i think that theres a value to that. Yeah, and people relate to it because they see themselves. Yes. Now that Panel Discussion is march 3rd at on thursday, this thursday, march 3rd, John Jay College of criminal justice 59th street and 10th avenue, 3 30 to 6 00 p. M. And the public is invited. Yes. And thats the important part. Mmhmm. Please come out and listen to this, because it is a very important issue. Thank you both for joining us this afternoon. Sandra, thank you for having us. Thank you, as well. Still ahead, the National Burial database of stay with us. There are untold numbers of unmarked slave burial sites across the country. That not only deprives generations of a piece of their own Family History, but also creates kind of a gap in American History. Enslaved americans is working to change that by establishing a process of official documentation for slave burials and Burial Grounds. And leading this project is the founding director of the Periwinkle Initiative at fordham university, sandra arnold. Also joining us is database Advisory Board member annette gordonreed. She is a Pulitzer Prize winner and a professor of american legal history at harvard university. Welcome to both of you. Thank you. Thank you. Good to be here. Sandra, this idea for the database grew out of, really, your own Family History, in a way. Fill us in on that. Well, it started out me spending time with my great aunt, else may frye. Shes the sister of my grandmother. Their father was born a slave. His name was ben harmon. And i always knew that my family had been enslaved in the region that we live in now, in tennessee, but i really didnt know a lot about our Family History. And before she died a couple lot of time with her. And so she told me where he was buried and took me to his gravesite. Cemetery. Mmhmm. And he died in 1946. He has a contemporary headstone. But next to him was a section of unmarked slave graves. So, of course, i became really inquisitive about who these people were. My own family . You know, who are they . And so from that, i started researching not only that particular plantation, but others in the area, and i realized that this was a problem not only in the state of tennessee, but it was a national issue. So, what have look, thats a huge project to get started. Its really ambitious. How look, how have you put it together, and how are you hoping to be able to collect, you know, data so that you can get a kind of comprehensive look at slave burial sites around the country . Well, i think the first thing is i think most people, obviously, think that were gonna go around the country, visiting each state, documenting sites. But, really, what were trying to do is create an official documentation process. And so the work relies on the public, the public participating. So the public actually tells us where the sites are. So, we have a site, a website. People can go to the site if they know of a burial or a Burial Ground in their community, they give us the information. And then were starting to process that information right now. How many how much have you gotten . You know, how many referrals have you gotten from people so far . Well, since i launched the project two or three years ago now, mind you, we had we havent yet weve never launched an official Public Outreach campaign, and we were able to get some really great press, which helped us. But weve received hundreds of Burial Grounds that means cemeteries, graveyards. But the individual graves are in the thousands. So were still actually processing that. And im gonna bring you into the conversation, professor. Youre on the Advisory Board. Yes. Why is this something that you could really sign on to . And i know history is your thing. Well, its the history of it, but its also important because enslaved people did not, in the main, get a chance to write letters, keep records of their families, and so forth. So anything we can do finding burial sites, archeology, anything about material culture, all those kinds of things are necessary to try to give them if not an actual voice, but to make them known to people as possible. And certainly burial rituals, grounds, those kinds of things can give Important Information about peoples cultures. So, its critical, i think. You know what . Look, and its also deeply personal, as we hear from sandras story. But it also seems to me as you know, we talk a lot about how American History is taught and the fact that there are these gaps everywhere. And especially when it comes to people of color, theres certain things that we all know were all going to be taught. And then nothing else. And then its sort of up to you, up until now, to go out and, you know, piece together get that information for yourself. Doesnt this, in a way, fill in some of those important gaps . I mean, yes, it tells us about our own individual families, but it also says something about the history of the country and the history of these people in the country. Oh, absolutely. And its wonderful to be able to have the public involved in all of this. Its not individual people working on their own. They can know that theyre part of a project that is taking place all over the country to talk about people, you know, ancestors whose lives, as i said ways. And so it is filling in the gaps is very, very important. Yes. Now i know that youre a Pulitzer Prize winner for a book that you wrote about the hemingses. Thomas jefferson and is this the kind of information that would help you as a you know, tell the story of that family. Whether it was the hemings or jefferson. This kind of stuff knowing where people were buried, how they were buried it tells you something about their absolutely. They just recently found the slave Burial Ground at monticello after all of these years. And we dont know where the hemingses are buried. Theres still more work to be done on that. But it would be very, very helpful to know, you know, what children were buried where, when, the dates, and so forth. I think it would be enormously important. And thats something we dont have right now. Okay. When you ive looked at your list of Advisory Board members. Its quite impressive. Has it surprised you how much youve struck a nerve when you started talking about, you know, really, peoples history their families as i said before, the countrys history, that so many people said, yeah. Yeah. I think that when i launched the work, i think one of the first surprises i got was the response from the public. The fact that people were so eager to help. Weve received submissions from almost every region of the country. Mmhmm. And, so, yeah. Now how are i have to ask you, how does it work . How are the Advisory Board members able to help you with this project, considering, you know, how big of a task it is . What is it that they are able to bring to the table . I mean, weve talked about your expertise as a historian. Mmhmm. Well, their expertise i mean, shes a historian, but i also have advisories im sorry advisors who are a part digital humanities, anthropology. And so i think in addition to their expertise, they guide me as i try to make decisions about about how to shape the database, different policies that were so, they bring a lot to the project. Let me ask you, what do you envision for the project down the road . I mean, look, this can be some tedious work in order to do it the way you want to, get the numbers, and sort of get it to where it almost operates on its own. Its gonna take some work. But what is your hope for it . Whats the. Well, obviously, my hope is that in perpetuity that there will be a space, a public space, as these sites are found, theres a space or a place to go to document them, number one. Number two i really hope, as it did for myself and my own family, that it will just kind of piece together narratives of, you know, people that are lost in genealogies. I know for a fact that lots of people are still searching for people lost because of the institution of slavery. So, i think finding people but i think those are probably some of the key things. And also, i think there are state that prevent some of the sites from being protected. So, i think, seeing that. Yeah. It seems to be a big issue. I mean, obviously, we ran into that i think, probably, the most famous african Burial Ground. Oh, yes. Is right here in the middle of new york city. And what has happened there is, obviously, not happening in other parts of the country. Yes. I guess a lot of times people dont even know what theyre digging up. Right. Right. Right. I think what happened with the site downtown should be a model for what could happen throughout the country, i think. You know, this also sparks another question in my mind. Im gonna defer to the professor, here. Does it surprise you in a lot a ways that we are still having these conversations about slavery, that we you know, were still talking about having it really recognized as an important part of American History, you know, in all of its facets, not just a chapter, that we pretend that we look at these families and lives and contributions that were still, you know, having to push to sort of get that done. Well, its not a topic that is pleasant for many people, and a lot of people want to move on from that and think that thats the past and it doesnt matter. But we know it still matters. These are a connection to people who are ancestors. Were sort of cut off from them, because, as i said, they were not allowed to keep records in the way that whites can do their genealogy and go back and make past. This is what we have, and we just have to do it. Mmhmm. It almost seems like a fear of history. Yes. Cant hurt you. No. It can teach you. Right. Right. But whats the fear of it we seem to have. The fear i think people might feel guilt. Mm. People dont want to feel bad. You look back into the past and you look at the things that you things. I mean, life is the good and the bad. Its the bitter and the sweet all together. Mmhmm. And you just have to convince people and keep pushing them to say that you want the real story, not just part. Yeah. And, you know, to tag off, if i may, i also when you asked earlier about the goals or what i kind of saw as a. Endgame. What id like to see, endgame, i think humanizing, you know, enslaved americans and humanizing their experiences is really big, as well. Yeah. They were people. Yeah. Yeah. And not just. An unnamed, unmarked, forgotten grave. Exactly. All right, thank you both for being with me this afternoon. Thank you for having us. And if someone is interested in finding out more about the database and, perhaps, giving you information about some burial sites in their area periwinkleinitiative. Org. Correct. And they can youll direct them where to go, right . Exactly. Best of luck to you, and keep us posted. We got to have you back down the road to see what weve accomplished here. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for having us. Still to come on here and now, a onceforgotten slave Burial Ground in the that and more when we come back. Rediscovering america collection is an exhibit that represents 400 years of africanamerican achievement with its rare art, documents, books, and artifacts. Philanthropists bernard and shirley kinseys unprecedented collection is now being showcased at walt disney worlds epcot center in orlando, florida. Here and now got a chance to talk with the kinsey family about their collection and their passion for American History. We have a saying theyre the stories that made america and theyre the stories that america made up. We know america is european, indian, and african. But if you look at the history books, its only european. So that part of the history that has been left out is what the kinsey collection does through books, manuscripts, documents, and two and threedimensional art. Well, for the last nine years, weve had 4 Million People see it before disney and were expecting 15 million to 20 Million People to see it at epcot, which is an amazing show. Dedicating almost 3,000 square feet to tell the africanamerican experience. I mean, its just unheard of. We all know we have black History Month once a year, and thats about the only time that the history of africanamericans are taught in schools. And kids seem to have only three or four people that they talk about every year, regardless of what grade youre in. This collection gives them a chance to understand and know that there are other people who did Amazing Things and contributed significantly to the building of america. And thats what we want all people to understand. This is not just africanAmerican History, its American History. The first piece that really started this, i think, was or that touched you yeah, touched me deeply, was an 1832 bill of sale of a young africanamerican young man in alabama being sold for 550. And it was almost like i was holding him in my hand when i opened this fedex this friend sent me. And i just couldnt believe how someone could own someone. And we also have a 1598 document of a married couple in augustin and francisca are getting married in shirleys hometown in 1598. Well, which, all of a sudden, it just throws away everything you thought about how we came about. And i think that texture of our history is important not just for black folks, but for white folks. And the emotional content associated with the kinsey collection is powerful, because we call it a reading show. Fan says, we have a document from 1595 of an africanamerican girl from st. Augustine being baptized. Lets put that in perspective jamestown was founded in 1607. Heres a young africanamerican girl being baptized in 1595. Now, she had parents, which meant that she was there before 1595. And the idea that africanamericans were not here before jamestown is what we blow up. And we blow up well, we came here differently than what differently. And thats important because a lot of black folks and white enslavement is really all of our history and its just not. The Iberian Peninsula was owned by the moors, black folks, for 700 years. When the spanish took back over the Iberian Peninsula, they started these conquests, starting with columbus. One of them was to florida in 1513 ponce de leon. Another one was with menendez. Pedro menendez. 1565, on the ship with menendez were 800 spanishspeaking people 400 africans and 400 spanish. So, the settlement that were talking about in st. Augustine came out of the original founding of st. Augustine in 1565. One, in particular, thats a a letter. And its about frances crawford. Frances is 17 years old. Shes being sold, and she doesnt know shes being sold. Yes. Shes carrying this letter in her hands to a slave dealer. In richmond, virginia. Because her master had case had said that she has to sell her to buy horses for her stable. We have the emancipation proclamation, one of the most Important Documents in American History september 24, 1862 that lincoln sent out before the public emancipation, which said that colored troops would be able to fight for the union army. And, as you know, without the 180,000 black troops, the war would have been won by the south, and if the south had won, wed still be in slavery today because the south was not willing to give up slavery. When khalil was in his early teens and his friends would come to the house, bernard would always give them a History Lesson, and they wouldnt want to leave. And thats really when we realized we were touching folks, touching young people, particularly. This collection has for me has meant growth pretty much in every aspect of the word. I mean, improvement. Its improved my familys its improved my pretty much everything about me confidence, selfesteem, empowerment, vision, dreams. And when you come to the kinsey collection, youll see American History for what it is, and its still a beautiful place, but you understand why its so complicated and why were still struggling with race today in america. Its because of these vestiges from the past that weve not dealt with. Rediscovering America Family treasures from the kinsey collection will be on display at walt disney worlds epcot theme park until 2018. Disney, of course, is the Parent Company of wabc. Still ahead on here and now, a slave Burial Ground provides a History Lesson for new york city stay with us. I hope we have a buyer for the house. Me too what are the neighbors doing here . Bill hey come in, come in i didnt know your home wifi could stream so many devices at the same time. Dad, its Time Warner Cable. 300 megs. Crazyfast. And we were right across the street the whole time. The whole time. Make your home as connected as possible with Time Warner Cable. With speeds up to ultrafast 300 megs. Get 50 meg internet for 39. 99 per month. Call now. Would anybody like to see the kitchen . Anybody . Dad you can get wifi all over this place. Cool switching is easy. I know, right . you get a onehour arrival window, no contract to sign, and a moneyback guarantee. Do you want to take a look pizzarolls are done take a look at the kitchen. Unlimited data for 39. 99 per month. Call now. Ask about free installation and access to nearly 500,000 wifi hotspots with select plans. Call now. This next halfhour of our program will include encore presentations of some of our most popular black History Month segments. First up, a forgotten slave Burial Ground in the hunts point section of the bronx helps shed light on the lives of enslaved white families in new york during the 19th century. We were there when the students and teachers from p. S. 48 gathered for a Burial Ground dedication ceremony. [ uptempo music plays ] bill swain, aunt rose, robin, hannah, abrahm, jenny, toby, james, faith, hercules. George, tammis, abigail, titus, jen, jenny, hester, agnes, lily, and dave. They were slaves, and life, it was kind of hard for them. Maria, mercy, her husband and three children. Students were holding candles. So, like, as a funeral it was a funeral. And then we were, like, saying names of the people that have passed away. Over there, the slave masters are buried. And over here, its the african slaves. About three of four years ago, Phil Panaritis sent me one email with just one photo in it, and it said, what do you think about this . Its the photograph that started the project. On the back, it said slave Burying Ground and hunts point road, which, being the area where i teach at hunts point, we knew it had to be in the area, but there was no hunts point road, which led us down the track of looking at census records, maps, bringing other historians involved, and bringing the teachers and students of p. S. 48 into investigating, what was the slave Burying Ground, where was it, and why is it not known today . It became more personal. I mean, even the idea of hunts point like, what it means, the idea that it was a point of land that was owned by it still to this day fascinates me and fascinates the kids, and with that, theres associated history of slavery that occurred. And, so, yeah, theres multiple times when you realize that youre walking on lots of history. Well, at first the kids reacted to the information as they would a history textbook. When they came down and they were actually able to see and touch the trees and the tree behind us, the giant black oak, that would have been alive when aunt rose was buried in the cemetery behind us. And the teachers tell the children, this tree saw the last burial in the hunts point enslaved cemetery. And then the kids touch the tree, and the kids feel a personal connection by being down here and touching and picking up the dirt. And then it starts to fit together, and its more than just the abstract words in the joining us this afternoon is philip panaritis. He is the cofounder of the hunts point Burial Ground project and director of social studies for the new York City Department of education. Thank you so much for being here. My pleasure. What a wonderful find, really an interesting piece of history that we might never have known about without the hard work of you and one of your partners, another teacher. Justin czarka at p. S. 48 was the other cofounder and really helped make this possible. Wouldnt be here today without him and the teachers and the wonderful students in cooperation at the school. What makes the discovery of this Burial Ground so important, such an important part of new york city history . One is, i think, that folks, even teachers sometimes, teach slavery and think of slavery as something that happened in mississippi in cotton fields and it did. But also at the time, there were, right before the revolution, 20 of the population of the towns in Westchester County that became the bronx were enslaved with a few free, but mostly enslaved africanamericans. We dont think of slavery here in new york, and so that was part of it. And the other part was that their graves were desecrated. We found a picture of what happened, and then it was gone. So, bringing them back into history, the socialjustice aspect of the project, was really important. And it was really sad, i think, to a lot of folks of all color because you had this grave gravestones, the graveyard for the wealthy family and just yards away was this graveyard for their slaves and servants. This park, they regarded these graves as important enough to be remembered and respected. And they just, essentially, swept away the graves of these other people, as if the lives didnt matter, much like their lives when they were actually alive and enslaved by these families. Youre right, sandra. And we found a Parks Department superintendent that said that the african slave Burial Ground was a mound that obstructed the view of the sound and was eliminated. If it wasnt for the photograph that was taken before that we found through the archives of the museum of the city of new york, none of this would have been possible. Now, the project you want to make sure that Everybody Knows from here on out that that burial site was there. Tell me the project, the purpose of your project. Well, the purpose was to write it back into history. Research because the photograph had it on a road that didnt exist, that had been the roads had changed in that part of the city. And so there was a lot of research in census and maps, primary sources, examining them to find out, where did we think it was . And then after two years, we were pretty sure that it was in a corner of the park. And we were lucky enough to have groundpenetrating radar come in. The federal government came in. Actually, the United States department of agriculture came in to do some soil surveys with the kids there. And they brought equipment, and they actually found anthropogenic features a big word, i had to look it up, for human skeletons exactly where the research said it was. Okay. Its hpsbg. Weebly mmhmm. Weebly weebly. Com. Yes, maam. And you can find out about the project and the students and history alive for them. Yes, maam. Social studies is more than just a class, isnt it . It is, and particularly now with our new chancellor and the emphasis on social studies. And were really proud to have a new team down at the board of education, department of education, and im thrilled to be part of that and to extrapolate and build on this work in other places. All right. Thank you so much for being with us this afternoon. Sandra bookman and back. Again again again again again . Again again General Mills is removing artificial flavors and colors from our cereals. So you can love cereal. Now, in this next encore conversation, the legacies of two wellknown figures in africanAmerican History collide. Kenneth morris jr. Is the greatgreatgreatgrandson of Frederick Douglass and the greatgreatgrandson of take a look. Welcome to you. Thank you. Thank you. Now, we have to ask you to explain all those greats to us. Yeah, thats a whole lot of greats. You know, its funny, cause every time i tell people what my relationship is to Frederick Douglass, not only is it a mouthful trying to spit out the greats, but it sometimes makes me feel very far removed. But i really am close, and my grandfather was Frederick Douglass iii. He was Frederick Douglass greatgrandson. My grandmother, nettie hancock washington, was booker t. Washingtons granddaughter. The two of them met at tuskegee, 1941. They were walking across campus, and they literally bumped into each other. Didnt know that the other descended from an historic family. They fell in love at first sight, and they wound up getting married three months later. And when my mom was born, nettie washington douglass, she was the person that united the bloodlines of these two historic families. And my mom was an only child, so i have the honor and privilege of being the first male to unite the bloodline, so thats how they came together. And whats really interesting continuing some of their very important work. Why dont you tell us about the Frederick Douglass family initiatives . My mom and i started the organization in 2007. And we knew that the organization would be about history. That was a given. We wanted to perpetuate and continue the legacies of my great ancestors. But both douglass and washington were about the future. And they were visionaries. So we knew we needed to do something to help people. And a friend of mine handed me a National Geographic magazine. The cover story was 21st century slaves. And i looked at that headline, and i reacted the way i think most people do the first time they hear about the existence of modernday slavery and Human Trafficking and that slavery didnt end with the work of Frederick Douglass, the abolitionists, and the signing of the emancipation proclamation. And as i started to research the issue and i found that slavery still exists in every civilized and uncivilized country around the world, including right here in the United States and this platform that my ancestors have built through struggle and through sacrifice, i knew that i could leverage the historical significance of my ancestry to really stand up and do something about this. So we started the organization with the idea that we would go into schools and Start Talking about the history and then talking about the existence of this human rights issue. And whats interesting is that you do use your Family History in a sense and you show, you contrast and connect what we traditionally think of as slavery and this modernday slavery is my understanding is part of your educational program. Yeah, absolutely. When youre talking about an issue such as sex trafficking, its a very prickly subject. And to go into a middle school or high school, which is important that were reaching students that young because this issue affects mostly children and it affects mostly young girls that are vulnerable. So when we can wrap our message and talk about what slavery looked like legalized, statesanctioned slavery talk about the abolitionists, how they went about abolishing slavery, and then ask the students to look through this prism of history and that slavery still exists and we need modernday abolitionists to do exactly what Frederick Douglass did, and thats to communicate the inhumanity of todays slavery to the communities. So it really kind of softens the edges a little bit when you can wrap it within the context of history. And is this kind of trafficking, does it affect, disproportionately, young people of color . It absolutely does affect young people of color disproportionately. Thats why were starting our Service Learning projects in new york city. Weve partnered with the new York Department of education, mayor bloombergs office, to bring this curriculum, this prevention education to the most vulnerable. And were starting in schools in underserved areas where we can go in and make sure that young girls are getting information thats going to protect them. Their attitudes towards women and choices they make as adults. If they make the wrong choices, how it can feed into the demand side of sex trafficking, and we also want to make sure that theyre not perpetrators. And then the third thing is we work on service projects, and all of the students get empowered and uplifted by working on this global issue thats greater than they are. All right, thank you so much for being with us this afternoon, Kenneth Morris jr. We will be checking back with you to see how this Program Works out with the city of new york. I appreciate that. Thank you. You. Thank you so much. Up next, the africanamerican sixth greatgrandson of the [piano playing slow tune] announcer dont wait. Communicate. Make your emergency plan today. We are revisiting another segment that illustrates americas very complicated racial history. This next guest says Thomas Jefferson was not only the third president of the United States, he was also our guests sixth greatgrandfather. Shannon lanier is here this afternoon, along with jane feldman. They coauthored the book jeffersons children the story of one american family. Thank you. Thank you. The book, obviously, you wrote it 10, 12 years ago, and its a story that continues to resonate the story of Thomas Jeffersons relationship with one of his slaves. And i dont say alleged, as we like to do. It was fact. We know it is. Because its fact. Now, did you grow up knowing this story . My mother passed the story down through oral history to my brother shawn and i. So growing up, i always knew the story. You know, ever since i was little getting the 2 bills from some of my uncles for christmas and, you know, cute Little Things like that in the family. But it was one of those things that we just knew. Like, my grandmother is who my grandmother is, Thomas Jefferson was my greatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgrandfather. It was just one of those things that was in the family that we knew. We didnt really talk about it too much, but we knew it. There came a point, though, when you did talk about it. And, you know, we fastforward, theres been big reunions at monticello. I know that first reunion was a little bit tense between the two families, i guess the jefferson side and the hemings side. Yeah, and the media, as much as we love them, did help tear some rifts in the family and try to make it into a black white Jerry Springer show, you know, the jeffersons meet the hemings for the first time. But there were a lot of great things that happened that day that may not have had the opportunity to have those stories told descendants who the first time, descendants that embraced each other and said, cousin, its been so long. You know, those are the things that we like to focus on and have carried out since then, with us going to each others funerals and weddings and parties, and, you know, everything, just celebrating each other as family, getting an opportunity to meet and learn more about each other. And i think thats more of a powerful story than just saying, oh, they didnt get along. They looked at each other, and stuff. It wasnt a hatfield mccoys thing. It was a whole lot deeper than that, and nobody pulled out a gun. No, there were just a few people that there were a few that werent very pleased. There were a few people that did not want to associate or talk to some of the other ones, but they were a very small number, and were happy about that number. [ laughs ] now, jane, how is it that you came to collaborate with him on this project . Well, okay, i will try to tell the story as briefly as i can. But the long and short of it is ive been fascinated with shannons family before he even was born. I grew up here in new york city in chelsea in a diverse community, black and puerto rican neighborhood, which and i read fawn brodies book, published in the 70s, and was fascinated by this information i never knew. And my friends of color all looked at me like i was the crazy one, saying, of course. Mom told me. Grandma told me. You dont know this . So the inequity in history really became my fascination. And when the dna proved out in 98 what the oral tradition of the family had always, in fact, known, 10 days after the dna, the oprah show aired, and i was sitting watching oprah that day, and i heard lucian k. Truscott iv invite his hemings cousins, being a martha descendant. And i thought, okay, im working on a book on the american family, and i cant think of a more symbolic, emblematic family. Than the hemings and the jeffersons. Exactly. And went down to photograph them in may of 1999. And thats when shannon and i met, so this was not even an intention to do this book. It was in meeting the descendants shannon met family that hes never met. He knew his madison descendants, and what amazed us in trying to rally the family for this symbolic shot was to meet the descendants of the first black graduate of vassar and mit and first black legislator. Its really incredible. All part of this family. So, yeah. Now, we talked a little bit before the cameras started rolling here just about how this story resonates and how, you know, over the time since you wrote the book, since that first reunion, more and more people know the story, but also, we felt, are a little bit more open to the story and dont seem to have as difficult a time hearing from you that youre jeffersons greatgreatgreatgreatgreat greatgrandson. Mmhmm. Why is that, do you think . I mean, we see barack obama in the white house. Is that one reason . Are we just more mature as a nation . Why do you think . I think we are maturing. We still have a lot further to go, but i think people are coming to a realization that we are a Multicultural Community in this country and that we have to start accepting that regardless of how it is. Know, we always have been so accepting of everybody anyway. We all know that were all mixed up. And we see it in our own family reunions. In the book, we show pictures of my rainbow family, you know, going from blond hair and blue eyes to, you know, darker than me. And thats just the black community. Were mixed up of a melting pot of beautiful people. And so i think that people are starting to realize that that is america. America is this melting pot. Even with the president and his multicultural background. Its the same. Its the same thing, and people are starting to realize that and accept that. Now, again, we have further to go, but as jane and i go around the country speaking to people and helping people find out more about their backgrounds, theyre finding out that theyre a lot more diverse than they thought they were. I mean, when you think about passing, passing didnt just happen in the black community. People came from all other like, many countries, passing, trying to be more american, trying to hide their background. Lose an accent and your heritage its the american way. So if you start digging a little bit in your family background, you may find out a little bit more about yourself than you thought you knew. Thank you. I know, were out of time. Youre in this business. I know. Well, they can go to our facebook page, you know, facebook. Com jeffersonschildren and find out more about us or speaking engagements, the book, all that stuff. Okay. Thank you both for being with us. Thank you very much. This was awesome. Sandra bookman and here and now will be right back. All across america families are coming back to Time Warner Cable for a whole new experience. To give you better service, and it shows. We came back for internet speeds so fast even the kids are impressed. Oh shes impressed. Were catching up on movies and shows on demand just as fast as we can watch them. For 89. 99 a month youll get 100 meg ultrafast internet, popular hd channels and unlimited calling. Twcs home wifi is so strong we can use all our devices at the same time. So we can all watch whatever we want. And thats kinda cool. Call now. For 89. 99 a month youll get internet, tv and phone. Theres no contract, no risk and our moneyback guarantee. Come back today and well give you free installation with our exclusive onehour arrival window. Feels good to be back. Come back today. Youll get free installation, tv equipment and epix included. And now get a 300 reward card. Thanks for joining us on here and now. If you missed any portion of and if youd like to comment or share your story, email us at abc7ny or follow us on facebook and twitter. Im sandra bookman. Welcome to our world with black enterprise im your host. This week we sit down with media mogul steve harvey to talk about breaking out of the box. My philosophy is i spend all my time building my dreams. So when i get some time i can live my dreams. Then we see how family and friends are truly the keys to success for this entrepreneur of the week. My three kids work with me in the business. My wife of 45 years is working with me daily. So im very family oriented. From the Corner Office we