even today. we have talked to some folks. we were fortunate in one of the housing developments to get money from cmlj. they may not have been what we wanted it to be. they had youth and it was probably one of the safist summers. to get those people come here. every time we go to speak. we end up in trouble. we are being identified as trouble makers or we're being identified as not following the rules and they feel like they are being punished for the stand they take to better their community. it's great to make policy. but if we're not involving the community, we will have the same problems. >> i am going to call on you. what program were you referring to that was working. that you said had community involvement? >> it was called open arms. it was a name that was group at that housing development created for themselves. it may not have been up to codes or standards, but what i would like to see is us put money to those who are prepared to go not community and train them. instead of saying, it's great you got 50 kids. they weren't doing what we wanted them to be. we are going to pool the money, give it to an organization and we wonder why nobody comes. this is good dialogue. >> what you're saying and some of your comments are directed towards the mayor's office. it's all coming from a good place. >> it's what malik said. >> i am going to go on. >> just like everybody is saying. there as always been help. you really have to go take charge. my grandma told them. you have to sit them in the room and make your point be heard. if people have that much interest. they should walk down the neighborhoods and ask them what they would be interested in. maybe they would help out. there's never before that. i was on mission street and people handed me condoms. you care about our sex but not about our lives >> i think brother said just what needed to be said. >> jenay. go. >> and about the program that you guys are trying to make. it's not about what people like to do. nowadays. it where you're from. say if you are from hunters point. you can't just walk in their. that's just the reality. i am not trying to be ghetto or bring stuff that you don't want to hear. if you don't like a girl, girls are going to fight. you are going to get stabbed. with boys, you can't just go anymore. you might really, really, want to do that. but i know some boys who would love the music program, but they are not going to come to fillmore all the way and risk their lives for something they really really, want to do. it's the areas. put it in suburbs where everybody can go to it. >> or, i notice they are building a police station. you will build a police station but not a community center. >> we are getting concrete examples here. >> did you want to respond anything before i go to questions? >> this is an issue where all hands need to be on deck. we are in a crisis. we all have to be held accountable at every level to have all hands on deck. we have the obliteration of our young people. homicide is the leading cause of death. for the period we have been in iraq. there are have been 4 thousand casualties. this is a program in our own back yard. we need the city coordination to insure we're having the coordination. >> can't we have a meeting, call it whatever you want, maybe your organization. you can coordinate. is that something that can be done? we are talking about community input. doing thing for a particular community. >> i think there are opportunities to do that. i think we have to be methodical. given the scope and size of the bureaucracy. it's easier said than done. we have to do that incrementally and in a way we have clear wins so that people can both at the city level and community level coming together to do the collective work. it's been fragmented. we need a city and organization >> we have to start somewhere. in baby steps. i want to talk a little bit about pilot programs. what's this called. i know not everybody agrees with you. >> no. they don't. i am in shock. >> go ahead. >> first of all. thanks for the invitation. as we all know. the juvenile probation has a pistol role. our responsibility to provide a safe place for youngsters who are accused and convicted of commit acts of violence. we also have the responsibility to initiate change. the long-term goals of transforming lives to include the competences that allow youths to resist any of the tempttations for further delinquent behavior. they have had prior booking. we also believe that long-term transitions are most effective if they are based with community-based programs. we wound up borrowing from adults. the victims were called in and surrounds by helpers from the community and the message was clear to the folks that were brought in. violence has to stop. if it's not stopped we will prevent that from occurring. we are offering you services. the individuals and the groups were brought in. the pilot program, was to recognize that the youth in juvenile hall are victims and perpetrators. they have been victimizes and participated in acts . we wound up going to our providers. we have a positive relationship with the community. whether it's through a contract or not and utilize that relationship and help plan this with us. with the colin strategy. lanny homes called in and called in the relationships with our community providers. we wound up having a call in with the providers. we focussed on youth already there and needed these connections and engagements with service providers. you are sitting in juvenile hall. you are upset about getting blamed and not having enough time with your family, the probation officer. not knowing. but figuring you might get released. you are called in and there are 30 folks sitting there are for you. opening their doors to you with a whole wide array of services that you can latch on to. we have had 3 of these sessions and spend a whole morning and take units by units into the auditorium. and then they are provided with the list of all of the agency who were there. and we incorporate that into the release plan. it's a plan in the works. i notice one the areas where it's working? reducing. it's a work in progress. one thing is for sure. we are not relying on the youths to get to the agencies. >> when did this start? >> in january. now we're going to move into a direction where we're going to assemble and call in the agencys and it's going to be for parents and it's going to be on days the heavily visiting days, the services will then be made available for the parents. that's where the effective indications will be. >> how many youth have participated in these 3 saturday. >> at any given time. there's over 100 kid in the detention center. so, we make certain that even, there were some concern about the kids that were in there for a long time. even if there's no hope. i say, that's short sided because the experience of having kids interact with helping adults is positive. you have the opportunity to engage with adults. over 350 kids >> so you're saying 350 kids participating in this? >> yes. anybody there was directed to come to this, yes. >> so the engagement is part of this. it's the follow up. how do we follow up. who's going to follow up? >> it's the responsibility of probation officers. >> i think it's back to what maya said, 350 for how many probation officers have to deal with those 350 youths. there's probably one service provider. how do we coordinate so your officers don't have to go to the agencies? that's been the issues because how do i connect with the probation prove that's servicing the youth? i think it's figuring out how to set up the time where they don't have to try to hit 350 service providers to accommodate that. >> i think i may have mislead everybody. >> there may not be 350 individuals. there maybe some of the kids that were there on 2 occasions. the engagements are not only based on what service are available or interesting on the part of the youth, it has to be also consistent with what vision of case plan is. that's really the challenging part about this. this is something we're working on very closely to make sure there's a follow up. it's still better than the folks being directed or encouraged to connect with an agency and there maybe some that falls off the chart. this is something very real and we're pledged to make this continue >> when will you have a status on it this is working >> why don't you give us a couple of months? >> where do we look to? where do the communities look to to see if this is working. >> our director of community programs. lonny holmes. >> david, you participate in this process in a different way. you are an outside agency. can you tell us essentially what your center does to further the cause to some of this >> sure, i would be glad to. our center, the berkeley center of law. so you know one of our basic tenant system that community and law enforcement need to work together. it's sometimes different for folks not used to working together. sometimes our partners have told us. it's helpful to have an outside agency come and serve as a catalyst to serve the folks on the ground. the chief talked about the juvenile strategy. we have worked with john tores and the san francisco police department and other organizations, as the chief talked about. those who are most at risk. those are 18 to 24 years old. those are folks out of custody and were called in to receive the message that the violence must stop and it's community services giving the same message together with amount of service providers in the room. and again, the partnerships are really the key to that. one thing we have seen in the adult colin strategy. they have worked in a way they weren't doing before in term was co-case and coordinating. >> are you telling us, the call-in program, as it relates to young adults, you have seen a reduction? >> we are from a university. when we talk about research. it's going to be propered and there's a significant reduction. we do know violence was down. however at this point, we can't say this intervention caused it. as we refine this and move into the bay view and begin a similar project in oakland much we will refine and to do more indepth research. >> are you going to tell us those results? >> who do we call? >> me. lonny and you. >> all of our information we share with our partners. so, another example as a university, we are able to do indepth study on homicides. many of you have already heard the results. we were able to come up with the data 58 percent of happens within a small radius. there are tiny pockets. if we can target as the chief said. they are the same folks shooting each other. if we can target them and have community and law enforcement we can make a difference. >> chief, any plan on expanding that in a way that david was speaking just now? >> i think that's a direction we would like to take. i like the notion of making better use of the schools and having schools stay open later and having the schools as a reporting centers. and having the probation officers at these centers. we don't have to call the kids in. they will come in naturally. that's the goal we see. i ran this 20 years ago and called in kids on intensive probation in chicago. and we would call them in on saturday. have an exam. have programs where the kids would perform. a >> would come in. we would have sessions with their individual probation officers. have community service and then, wrap things up with a good meal later on. this is not anything new in the feel of juvenile justice. we just want to move step by step in this direction. >> what's taking it so long? >> staffs and community as well in our department. >> i want to move on a little bit. i want to talk about specifically police participation and i would like to ask lieutenant miranda. what do you think it would take to have more gun buy backs? >> if i can say one thing. i want to commend john tores. i think he's doing a wonderful job. he's doing a lot of intervention. i will be quick. i have a quick story for you. when this first started. with john tores. it was like someone was drawing a line. it was police department on one side. crn's on one side. correct me if i am wrong. what are they going to say? who is going to retailiate. after the first meeting. we started to each other. again, it's not a perfect world. neither are the police. i think john has done a great job. i know he needs more crn's. the more input he gets will be fantastic. >> thank you lieutenant. >> you know lieutenant, thank you for bringing that back up. we have something that is actually working. so, why don't we expand the crn program? just expand something that is working. who here. i don't want to pick on anybody. who can come up with a solution to expand something that is working? we have people already talking that are not always on the same page. but agree to disagree. >> i will throw this out there. i think that any kind of data is the ingredient that's necessary to prompt additional resources to come in. if we can tie in the crn's that we all know into data, then, and we can prove it. i think that lens itself to expansion. >> is that something you could help with? >> one thing that's happening next week. street out reach workers from oakland and san francisco will be coming to talk about best practices. it's hard to prove what's causing violence to reduce. it takes tremendous resources on what's working. certainly what we want to do is track the overall trends in violence. we are in the middle of a study and compare that to the study from 2004 to 2006. we are not just looking at the numbers. but getting behind the cases and get a story about the trends in violence and how different community and city partners can respond. it's difficult to say this one part is the reason for that. because there are a lot of moving parts and a lot of people working together. >> i would agree. >> i mean, we have been trying to find, has there been national data? how do we prove this as one specific piece for collaboration? i think again, lieutenant, thank you for those words. there are effectiveness. but there's a clear link that this is the safest strategy. it's a work in progress. i am appreciative of ways to come up with data measures so we can say, definitively. this plays in the whole scheme the violence reduction >> i mean, i just want to be clear. it's not impossible. it's difficult and it takes time and resources. if we had the available resources to do an indepth study. it's a serious under taking. >> i followed up that. you know what. it's take it even further. let me say this. it isn't rocket science. may be we do