i do not think thomas jefferson had that in mind. this place is clean. he is an asset to the neighborhood. i think that if you rule adversely against him we will be looking at another 10-year vacancy and vacancies depress me. >> thank you. sue hester. >> members of the commission i am the architect for the project. and i am also the applicant officially on paper. i would like to speak regarding the report which was submitted by the planner as well as try to give you a little bit of background since i have been working on this project for over 10 years. i worked for the previous owner who spent after the market went out of business and they requested to open up truly mediterranean. that went out of business for lack of neighborhood involvement and neighborhood support. the building was sold. my previous client purchased the building which was vacant for almost four years. and they spent time and money and effort and i spent many hours in meetings looking for grocery tenants that would be satisfactory both to the planning department and the neighborhood. all we could get was restaurants, nightclubs, bars and such things. as a result of not being able to find an appropriate tenant, the previous owner sold the building at a significant loss after paying almost four years of mortgage with no tenant income. we are very fortunate to have three upstanding san francisco businessmen take over this building and spend over $2 million renovating it and upgrading it. i am very sorry that you did not mention that. $2 million spent restoring and upgrading a building that is a historical resource. we cleaned up the building. we cleaned out the graffiti. we were thanked every day by people on the street for bringing this building back to life. one thing that was not mentioned in the report is that it says and repeatedly it seems that there is kind of a boilerplate statement that keeps coming back, eliminating the neighborhood serving grocery store would force shoppers to settle for convenient goods that don't offer fresh foods and vegetables. the report fails to mention this document submitted to the previous planner and to this planner and i will submit later on to you which lists all of the stores in the area and all of the food stores. it is very simple. if you go over there you will find lee's market, 100 feet away. little city market, 50 feet away. a pastry shop, 25 feet away. not too far away is a safe way and a trader joe's. when we went we requested and wanted to know if people came into the market to buy anything. a little bit of pasta. not one person came in. how is it possible that -- >> thank you. your time is finished. >> i can have somebody's time? >> no. everyone gets their own three minutes. >> commissioners, good afternoon. in the 1950's when i was fwrowing up my mother frequently shopped at pialwaysa market. it was a bustling grocery store filled with color, wonderful aromas and italian dialect. that pretty much is gone now. rossi's closed a number of years ago. it is great to have neighborhood serving businesses but neighborhoods need to resip riicate or those businesses will not survive. i spent a lot of money in north beach. i know the area. and i can tell you that other than a few cafes the residents do not patronize north beach business in a significant fashion. there is one thing, practice is another. you cannot have it both ways. a produce section was kept when the site reopened. the produce area did not do much to serve the community. there are a number of good produce stores nearby effectively new china town and a natural foods store as well. personally i would like to see a good variety of cheeses, broad selection of olives but that are not particularly perishable and that would complement the wine sales in the store. having said that the produce section does not work. perhaps it is time to let it go. thank you very much. >> is there additional public comment on this item? >> recently i have met tiffany. in 2007 when the applicants came forward to have their vision, the principle and conditional use would be for a retail grocery. there were going to be accessry uses like a wine shop and also a catering business like a self service restaurant they also cater out of. what happened is that they went ahead and put stuff on the shelf and in the freezers that one, people did not buy because they just did not participate or it was stuff on the shelf that people did not want so they did not come in and buy it. ultimately they threw a lot of the stuff away. and they adjusted their business model. their big mistake is that they should have came forward and said this is not practical. it is not pragmatic. they should get a new principle use, self service restaurant and wine shop. and something very unique open space in an enclosed area where people can get together. that, to me, is very practical. we are in the year 2010. they are running out of money. there is no more cushion. they put $2.1 million into a building which i thank you for, prior to that it was a complete eye sore. and it is probably never going to come back to us. but we can solve a problem. instead of create new ones or make new ones. what we can do today is move a step in the direction to take a new use, self service restaurant, wine shop in the open space. what i like about the open space is a lot of non-profits right now are drying up and they need venues and space. this is a perfect space. recently an event there was and over 100 people showed up. it was a wonderful event. the city needs to look at adjustments of models, more practical uses during this economic recovery. we are probably going to be in this for about five more years at the least. i don't see any light switch. they own the building. let's grant them the new use, more practical use and thank you. >> thank you. is there additional public comment on this item? >> good afternoon commissioners. we have met with the project sponsor and the ownership group of this particular building. we met with them close to a dozen times, looked at their model and what they have. in north beach there are few places where someone can get self service food. people weigh out their own amounts of food and it is something that is relatively nice. i haven't seen too many people go in and buy pasta and olive oil. very close by is a meat market right up the street, across from the meat market there is a produce market. further up that street there is another produce market. there is plenty of places to buy produce, meats and burdens. obviously it is one of our concerns is what can we do to help businesses survive in this economy. we are in support of the change of use on this particular venue and would like to see the people who are currently serving businesses that serve produce and meats also stay in place. but we do think this is an appropriate change of use for this particular location. i thank you. >> thank you. is there additional public comment on this item? >> good afternoon commissioners. i am a resident in north beach. went to school here. live in the neighborhood. i go upon and down the street. i am in favor of the market the way it is. the building is excellent. beautiful looking building. if i want cheeses i will go around the corner. i shop and eat in north beach almost every night. a farmer's market people go to. china town a bunch of different grocery stores. where can you find a pound of food for $8.75 in this time and era? i doubt it. i go and get a pound of food. it is pretty ridiculous to be able to have a price like that in a time and era when the economy is down and people are not making so much out there. i am a business owner. times are not as good as they are. everybody knows that. i am in favor of leaving it exactly the way it is. it is a gorgeous building. i find that people want to go get groceries, there are so many spots down china town from the gentleman was saying earlier, trader joe's, safe ways and up to grant street and the nature store. they are loaded up and down. you don't need to put groceries there. they will lose money on it. i can tell you that by living in the area. last i checkeded there is a farmer's market they have on a sunday there. that is where i am at. i am in total favor of the market the way it is. hope you leave it the way it is. thank you so much commission. >> additional public comment on this item? >> i am a resident in north beach. simply i have to say that the reality for me is that i would not shop and don't shop at any of the small groceries in north beach. i do entirely all of my shopping at safeway and trader joe's. but the market is great for getting take out dinner and a bottle of wine. i like it how it is and i wouldn't grocery shop there. thank you. >> hi. i work in the area by the fisherman's wharf and north beach. i have seen the situation from different perspectives. on a personal matter i think that it can be a easy decision to make but my opinion i think when people work hard and want a business to thrive they will do their best to comply and provide a best service for the community and for the business. they attempted to do groceries. i think what they do now is working best for them. they have grown their business in ways that you don't see up front from catering to wine sales. it is not just about the liquor sales. i think in my business i am able to work with them and i ordered from them today. they are able to provide a service for me when i say i want something done and have it ready and prepared they are able to accommodate me where some businesses may not. so i hope you make the right decision today and i thank you for your time. >> thank you. is there additional public comment on this item? if not public comment is closed. >> i wanted to thank staff for their work. i think we have an exceptional team now in the enforcement division of our department. i was here for the hearing in 2007. i have gone by that site several times. i don't think they ever conformed to any of the original conditions that we placed on that project. i don't think it is appropriate to grant this when the original conditions of approval were never adhered to. and i asked staff several times about this since 2007 because i remember what we approved. and i saw what the use was and it did not seem to conform to our original conditions. that being said i think that perhaps if those original conditions had been adhered to and still no success then perhaps we would be in a position to be discussing whether or not to change the conditions. you know, i don't think that is what we are faced with here. so i actually support the staff recommendation for disapproval. so i will move that we take staff recommendation and disapprove the conditional use authorization. >> second. >> well, i disagree. i was there. i think the second day they were open. i was really impressed with how nicely it had been fixed up and having seen that sit in disarray for 10 years and seeing nothing working. we had a couple of approvals that came before us that were not approved. you know probably would not have worked any better and nothing happened and nobody was investing in this. i would say there is a variety of things when i went in there. i doubt there was the percentage of grocery that needed to be done even at the beginning. but there were groceries. there was some wine sales. there was a lot of takeout food and food to eat there. there are a variety of uses. we have to realize that markets of these sizes are blends. you have a deli. these all have some groceries but predominantly these businesses survive on the other things they do. they do deli service. they do a lot of that. they do some sales of various other things. technically as we are trying to modify this agreement they should be categorized as a different category than grocery based upon the parameters we have seen. the other thing that was brought up is the store front. now i don't remember the store front restoration as being part of the original motion. i was digging through my storage room but you know i am not saying it was not. however i looked at the renderings of the building in its original form and then what it was before it closed. and in my opinion it was not very good looking when it started and got worse as the years went over. i think to restore something that is not very attractive and practical is not a smart thing to do and to the extent that, you know, that is part of the issue. that could be discussed. but i think what they did is a lot more attractive than a virtual restoration of what was there. and i would assume it is based on that picture we are seeing here in our materials. so they have a lot of support as was mentioned today. a lot of people came out to support it. and certainly i think we could very well see a vacant site if we do not allow them to continue on with what they are doing. you know the other thing is and it has been admitted that the neighborhood did not buy the groceries that were there. to the extent that you could really have a full service grocery. because the competition is too much. you have all of these hybrids that are around there. the meat market, you have the things in the marina. you have a lot of produce markets, farmer's markets. there are a lot of options for food and a lot of people may work outside of north beach and on their way home they will go someplace andells get their groceries, which a lot of people do. so it is really tough. the few that do survive, there are little groceries in glen park it it was one that we approved. it is a nice little grocery store. little big near square footage. that may be a more unique situation because you do not have the variety of things that you have in north beach and glen parkas far as other choices for groceries. so that does work there. because there are a lot of hills there as there are in north beach but you have more choices closer by in north beach. so, it is possible but unlikely that a stand alone grocery store being a strirkt definition of grocery will survive at that location. they spent $ million in upgrades. i think that i would be very happy to allow them to continue on in the form they are in. so i am not supportive of the motion. we will see what the other commissioners have to say. >> yes, i second that. because i would like to support the staff on this one. the original approval and condition of approval all referenced either the wine or the restaurant type use to be subordinate to the grocery store. those were never the primary uses of this building. if you look at the plans that were given to us in this packet, the one labeled existing floor plan, it is ludicrous to me to think you can sell groceries on 10 shelves. the fountain in this middle of the space takes up as much as the shelving for groceries as there is. there were choices made early on somewhere. i don't think it was ever intended that groceries be sold as the primary use with the others being secondary. and that was the reason i voted for this was that the grocery store use was the primary use and the other two things were supposed to be secondary and accessry. those were the only ways that those two uses could have been approved under that conditional use in the first place. that is the reason i am supporting staff. in terms of the exterior condition number six says the building exterior will be returned to its original appearance et cetera. that was part of the original approved motion. >> there is a lot of nostalgia for the old rossi market. that will never happen again. let's admit that without question. i also question whether or not the present owner or last two or three owners of the building did their market research prior to attempting to buy or open a business. but that is not up to this commission and it is certainly not up to me personally how one goes ahead and commits a sum of money to a business. my problem is the absolute and blatant disregard of a commission action here in 2007. the very fact that they came in to the commission, made their application on a conditional use, went through the entire process, everything was laid out. means that they had knowledge of the process. and if they had knowledge of the process and wished to change those conditions, then they had knowledge of how to do that. i have been in that place within the last month three different times. each of the times i was the only person in there by the way. the percentage and actual amount of floor space there, you just have to eyeball it to understand. i mean i did not have to go in with a tape measure to know it was totally disregarded as to the original condition. and i cannot as a commissioner ok something that is in blatant disregard of commission action. it goes against everything i know of in how the process should work and how it does work and i appreciate the fact that there is an action with the department as far as enforcement is concerned. i think it is totally proper. i would also support the motion. >> yeah, i guess i wanted to support your comments because that is again it is clear to me that our conditions, original conditions were completely ignored and it almost seems deliberate or blatant on many levels. i have been going by that place since we last conditioned it. and i remember it first came here it was a controversial hearing in 2007 and they wanted to put in a full restaurant on the side i believe it was a thai restaurant and we didn't approve it because we didn't continuing was an appropriate use for that site. we limited the amount of space that could be used for that restaurant. i feel our conditions were completely blown off. in other situations we imposed certain conditions. there is a public process. people come in. rarely taken lightly. there have been instances even with other projects who do not follow our conditions similar actions have been taken against them whether it is closure or any number of things. this seems appropriate in this sense to deny this to you. >> i have some questions just in general on enforcement. going toorned a lot of neighborhood markets, mostly the smaller ones, some of which morph into delis and sometimes have events and various other things. are we doing the same enforcements on all of these little markets? what is the rule? the rule is a certain percentage must be devoted to dry goods. >> the main limitation is with alcohol sales. they are limited beer and wine to 15%. beyond that the planning code and zoning administrator sbragse over the pasta,llowed delis and that kind of thing to operate as an accessry to the use, typically there is some seating outside for that. this use is different. they came in for the small self service restaurant because they will have seating inside. they are serving other types of hot dishes. the market that you spoke of earlier in glen park has a deli. they serve sandwiches. you can go in and get sandwiches. they have prepared foods that you sell in a case that you purchase to take home or give it to them and they will warm it up for you but they do not function as a restaurant. so beyond that, that is pretty much what the other stores are doing. the canyon market in glen park does that. buy rite on 18th does the same thing and most of the other small markets have a deli component because it is a very profitable thing for them and helps them make extra money. their main thing is selling groceries. >> i guess my question is more of the mom and pops that you see throughout the city probably do in fact have a higher than 15% beer and wine. >> typically they don't unless they have additional authorization for liquor sales, they tend toing within the parameters. and if we know about it, we take enforcement. obviously we are not in every small and pop convenient store in the city. but i think we need to distinguish between convenient stores and the small stores that sell a few thing and beer and wine and liquor is the main component of their sales. this is a larger store. it is almost 6,000 square feet. it would not make a good convenient store. >> there is no restriction that convenient stores have to be below a square footage. >> you know it is a legal non-conforming situation. >> what i think with the mom and pops i am familiar with it might be buy sales volume. you are talking about the actual shelf usage. how about storage. if part of your store is devoted to storage of groceries or other items would that count? >> includes the management office and cleaning area and things like that. now in smallco