Transcripts For SFGTV Police Commission 20221020

Please stand by for San Francisco, Police Commission. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Take roll. Please. Commissioner walker. Present. Commissioner walker present. Commissioner benedicto. Present. Commissioner yanez. Present. Commissioner burn. Here. Commissioner yee is under way. Also with us tonight, we have chief scott from San Francisco Police Department and chief of staff Sarah Hawkins for police accountable. Hello everybody welcome, were inperson, its october 19, 2022, welcome to our Police Commission meeting. Were going to have a full line up of commissioners all 7 of us are here, were waiting for commissioner ye, with that lets get this party started. Clerk line 1, award fwoer outstanding bravery with others. [applause]. Good evening, my name is sergeant lee im assigned to the investigator unit. I was assigned ot unit on an incident that i will share you. Police officers respond today a residential building on 5th street regarding a person screaming in distress and banging on walls. After making contact with the front desk clerk who called police, they discovered the suspect laying on the floor. Anthony, a neighbor was standing over the suspect and checking on him. Mr. Clue said he thought the suspect may have had a seizure. The officer checked on the suspect and the officer yelled at the officer, ill kill you, you want a machete shoved up your fword throat. He wanted to the officer to shoot him and kill him. Almost immediately mr. Clue was holding and struggling to keep the suspect from lunging at the officer. The officers attempted to deescalate the situation and the officers arrived on the scene. They saw the suspect enter his room and emerge with a machete with a blade over a foot long. When the suspected attempt to charge at the officers, mr. Put his arms to stop him. Past mr. Clue and waved it as the officers telling him to shoot him. The suspect returned to his room and came back without the machete, the suspect again tried to charge at the officers saying he was going to kill him. Mr. Clue again put himself between the officers and the suspect to keep the suspect from advancing. As a suspect was distracted, and continuing to trend the officers mr. Clue went into the suspects room and removed the machete and knife and a bat so the suspect would not be able to go back in the room and rearm himself. Eventually after 12 minutes from when the First Encounter began, the officers were able to take the suspect into custody with nobody injured. I reached out to the officers on scene who agreed that mr. Clue placed himself into harms way and his actions kept the escalated situation. The Police Department does not encourage people to put themselves in dangerous situation. The sfpd would like to recognize anthony clue to protect officers from lethal assault and preventing the suspect from forcing the officer to use lethal forced to protect their lives. Thank you. [applause] good afternoon, commissioners and public, i want it read this to mr. Clue. Appreciation to you to put yourself at risk on july 25, 2022 such an example of bravery awarded on this day of october 2022 signed by me. We really appreciate your work and you know, he went above and beyond, what most people would do. Thank you. Thank you. [applause] and if you decide that you want to do this for a living, were hiring. Hi mr. Clue, you dont get off that easily. Congratulations. Is this your family. I have my girlfriend, case manager and building manager and the clerk, the desk clerk. They all came out to support me. Great. This is crazy, like i would not imagined this like two or three years ago. Getting an award like this is pretty amazing. You seem like an amazing person just based on what your actions you took so i think its us that owes you a huge thank you and gratitude and also to your support network. We understand that it takes a village often times. Most definitely. And like the chief said, they really need people. So thank you so much. Im going to open it up to anyone else. Commissioner benedicto . Yes, obviously mr. Clue, thank you again echoing what chief and president elias. That people recognize that you went above and beyond in showing the bravery. Its also a great demonstration of what we want to see. Its definitely part of the is model of Community Policing that we want the department to show and also something that ive said before that hold community problems, whole of Community Solutions and you became part of a solution to a real problem in the community. So you are to be congratulated. Thank you again. Thank you. [applause] thank you, very much for stepping up and i also want to thank your family and your network of support behind you, it really does take all of us coming together and supporting each other and i want to reiterate that community is where we want to be. Thank you again all of you. Thank you mr. Clue for coming here and your family. I want to emphasize that its not a understatement that you likely saved somebody life. It was not that long ago that we had a similar situation with remarkable facts and officers were forced to use deadly force and take somebodys life under similar circumstances. So i dont think we can emphasize that enough, you likely saved somebodys life. We owe you a debt of gratitude and this whole city owes you a debt of gratitude and not enough can be said about your bravery and quick thinking. Just your instinct under duress was to protect somebody else. I cannot thank you enough. As my colleague, Vice President says, not all heroes wear capes. In this situation you really are a hero. Commissioner yee. Thank you, madam chair. Anthony youre our hero here today and hero throughout the city. I wish there was more like you, maybe you can set precedence for everybody to follow in your footprints. Your bravery shows and you saved as you said another persons life possibly and possibly additional harm. Congratulations again. Thank you. Im going to echo what everybody else said and i thank you for what you did. Making sure that there was Nothing Available for that man to continue to escalate. It takes a unique skill set to think that quickly. You have a long life ahead you and think about that officer that the chief made we do need good people especially people of color in our department. Thank you very much. And you get to come hang out with us, how fun is that . Commissioner byrne. Thank you. Thats it. [applause] thank you. Well break for photo op, make sure you get everyone in there too. Thank you, and thank you to the his support system. We appreciate it. At this time, line one, if you would like to take Public Comment please step to the podium press star3 now. Good evening, caller, you have two minutes. Hi my name is marie bo, im the mother of a child that was murdered next month on november 17, it will be 15 years. Ive called to this line before, his name was alan beau. I just wanted to address the issue, there was a resent issue written by joan a lamb. He interviewed over the phone the other day, the article is in regards to the reward of our murdered children as well as maybe other victims of crime. My sons is 75,000, they start at 10 and they go to 50,000 and how affective having those rewards in place are. And i just wanted to make a statement, i know there is an accountability board for the police and to me as a retired city employee, that leaves miss appropriation for funds. So i would like some answers how the reward goes who gets 2000 and 15,000 et cetera. . Fm this is Public Comment for certificate of appreciation. Okay, im talking about the young man who just saved somebody elses life. And thats a good thing, im glad he didnt lose his life saving somebody else. My son lost his life saving somebody else. So what do we do about that. This young man is to be commended and his mother should love him. How about our children that have lost their lifelike my son who was murdered august 14, no one is commending him really, hes elvis funeral home, six feet under and this article does not give us any justice. And i do commend that young man, i wish, i know his mother is proud of him, i know she is, that hes still alive. With that thank you. Good evening, caller, you have two minutes. This young man is lucky to be alive, im susan im a member of black community. It is, not surprising to me that commissioners are spinning this. Of turning this tragedy into a feel good police interaction. This is not an example of collaborative policing. Collaborative policing is somebody stand before the police so that the army dont hurt or kill one another. This is about collaborating police this is what people should do put their lives on the line to prevent murder by police. This is not to stop the police murder. Good evening, caller you have two minutes. Ed caller you have two minutes. That is the end of Public Comment. Line item 2, general Public Comment. That do not appear on tonights agenda or within subject matter. Under Police Commission rules of order Neither Police or dp personnel nor commissioners are required to respond to questions by the public but may provide a brief response. Or you may write written comments to the via postal service. Well take Public Comment and then well go on the way back. Good evening, ms. Brown you have two minutes. Yes, i would like to use the overhead. Im here regarding my son. His case is a cold case. Im really down today. And im down because of this article, this article in the newspaper saying sfpd has paid zero rewards to unsolved so many sides for nearly a decade. What hope does that give me . Im here doing this interview and im crying. Where were you when i was murdered . I need answers, if this reward no good . And some have not getting paid, even if you get the persons that come out and do give a confession, they dont get paid. What hope do i have . Im hurting about this. Ive been coming here for years and still no justice for him. I need something done about this article. My hope is gone. How are witnesses going to come forward . Please give me some hope, some parents like myself. Please. Thank you, ms. Brown. Members of the public who have information on the murder, you can call the hotline. Any other members of the public that would like to make general Public Comment . Hello i volunteer with people with disparities. I want to let ms. Brown that i hear you and ive seen here, your words are not falling on deaf ears. Ill follow with a quote from fellow disparity, injustices of black San Franciscoian right side urgent, like going to call it what it is. Our grown tired of talking to the Police Commission and board of supervisors. Where is the urgency, if they represented white folks, i know there would be urgency. We reached out to new source sxz therefore we from end quote. There was constitution for the purpose of policing which is one of the Police Services doj cops recommendations. You started mcguire mentioned it. Commissioners benedicto and walter last month mentioned shadowing, pd training. Question was is this 4th amendment training . Why is the Commission Training . And due to this training. Isnt this a crucial topic in tirmz of reducing disparities. The commission seems to have have expressed frustration but not identified solutions. Were going to ask pertinent questions on what sfpd is doing. Thank you. Good evening, caller you have two minutes. Speaker my name is Susan Beckman and i volunteer in the disparity in black community. The following is a quote from founder felicia jones, im going to call it what it is, anti blackness. I have grown tired of talking to the Police Commission and to the board of supervisors. Where is the urgency, if the tables were turned and they represented white folks, i know there would be a urgency. Im tired t not tired enough to quit but tired of beating a dead horse. And Community Involvement and incut. They have emailed concerns about the commissioners nine times. Because of that, we have the board of supervisors and california specialist District Attorney general brown to get the answers to our concerns. Email that i sent you all yesterday. During the october groups. Thank you. Good evening caller, you have two minutes. My name is ana oliver, and im calling on case number 081 my brother oliver was beaten unconscious in 2008. Was actually the inspect or before he retired. And since he has retired i have not heard anything from San Francisco pd pertaining to my brothers murder. I have not even been called to say ms. Ms. Oliver, we have a new inspect or on the case. I have to have my brothers reward increased. San francisco did not do anything. And i want answers. I want to know what is San Francisco doing about the parks. What are they trying to do for prevention of these murders. And also i want to know what is resolved the case and what is San Francisco doing about these unsolved case. And who are the inspectors now . Good evening, caller you have two minutes. This is marie, i apologize speaking out of turn. I did not realize i was inappropriate. Im the mother of alan murdered 2007 like the lady before said, nobody called me unless i called them. Paulet is one mother that is always out there that does not mean that the rest of us mothers are not in pain and breathing. Its difficult for me to call into the crime as i have not afford to live in the bay area anymore. Im virtually homeless. This is ridiculous, my sons murdered happened 15 years ago, there is nothing being done about it. Ive been told that its been put in a queue and nobody is investigating. And the reward money is is a joke. Short staff, thats just simply unacceptable period. Its not acceptable to have all of these unsolved murders in San Francisco or in the bay area. Hes a younger brother that looks exactly like him and my fear is whoever killed my son, that was 20 years old is going to come after my son that is now surpassed his life span and 21 years old. He lives in berkeley near the campus and ill have to tell people around his building, please look out for my child his older brother was murdered and they still have not found who killed him. And this is what we live with every day. Its near. People are getting away with murder in San Francisco, i feel better in mexico and jamaica. San francisco. Good evening, caller you have two minutes. Hello, anti blackness. Then use of force and racial profiling by a traffic stop. Im tired of beating old horse. And therefore we sought help from attorney general end quote. Sfpd enthusiastickly about progress and reform. Yet the bulk of the federal department of justice cops report which resulted in 2 p 2 recommendations remain as problematic as ever. The black disparity remain as high as 2022. This would show repeat Offender Police officer with racist track record. This is recommended in doj cops, under accountable. We attend these meetings regularly and have never heard this type of reporting wrongdoing discipline and repeat offenders officer. Thank you. Good evening, caller you have two minutes. Commissioner i did read that report. In San Francisco, i think its a good investigative report. On what is ream relevant, dont repeat the same thing like parrots. It makes this whole meeting boring. Thank you very much. Thats the end of Public Comment. Line item 2 adoption minutes. [indiscernible] second. The motion to accept the minutes commissioner walker how do you vote . Yes. Commissioner walker yes. Commissioner benedicto yes commissioner yanez is yes. Commissioner yee. Yes. Vice president o behrstone. Yes. President he lie as, yes. Line item 4, consent calendar receive and file action. Dpa, sp Police Commission report disciplinary and collaborative reform update. Ill make a motion to receive. Second. Second. On the motion to accept, commissioner walker how do you vote . Yes. Commissioner walker is yes. Commissioner benedicto. Commissioner yanez. Commissioner bern. Byrne. Yes. Commissioner ye. Yes. Commission yes. Yes. Line item 5, dc report discussion, safety concerns provide an overview of incidents or events occurring in San Francisco having an impact on Public Safety. Discussions will be limited to whether to calendar on future meet ing. Chief scott. Thank you, good evening, again, commissioner president , elias, Vice President and chief of staff, acting director and public. Ill start with the just the violent and property crime trends give some overall and some specific in terms of the violent crime. Overall were up 7 percent thats a difference of 2750 incidents. In terms of Violent Crimes were up 1, 7 percent and property crimes were up 7 as well. Starting with property crimes which includes burglary, we had to decrease but again were up 7 year to date. Some sft highlights up and down, burglaries are down 12 . Larceny is up 15 . Auto burglars year to date is 10 percent. We also have a decrease in arson by about 7 percent which is a small number. Overall for our Violent Crimes, we are up 1 percent from week to week. And thats an increase of 293 sints over 2021. Homicides for the year down 5 , Sexual Assault up 5 . Human trafficking is down 56 . Specifically on homicides there is been a total of 42 but there was one this week that i will report next week. Compare to 44 this time last year. So the decrease is 5 and the overall clearance rate is 61 . There has been 152 shootings resulting na 15 victims of gun violence. 28 of those victims are homicide victims. But in terms of the year to date homicides with firearms, were down 15 from 33 to 18. Shooting victims are up 3 . 147 to 41 this time last year. And one incident year to date. 176 compared to 175. Gun seizure are still up. Of those 163 were privately made firearms also known as ghost guns. A little bit highlight on the tenderloin narcotic, drug seizure, 77,246 gross gram. And of that, 8045 has been fentanyl. Which genex seeds all of 2021. Weve had 425 arrests for possession of sale, 548 of cash seized and that is street warrants. Significantly incident for the week, two reported incidents that i want to talk about. There was a homicide last night or yesterday, it occured on october 18th and that was in the tenderloin. We have, some food to followup on that one but we do not have a suspect in custody. So i will report on that last week. We had, two lets see im sorry, 7 non Fatal Shooting over this reporting period. 23rd and mission, occured on october 11, mission and lilac on october the 11th. Baker and oak and Park District occured on october the 12th, northern had twovictim shooting on the block of large and on 1014, there was a shooting in the parking lot on the north side of broadway. And we have not made any arrest on any of these shootings, all of these investigation right side on going. We do have booze and well followup as we have hopeful success on these cases. I do i want to flag couple of incidents, with bum calls. This is something that we saw in San Francisco last week, we had a couple of prior. And these have been fake calls, that particular day that we had last one there were calls in the region and throughout the nation. We refer to a swating calls, calls that are generating some far away, fake calls that cause a huge Law Enforcement response of things like active shooter incident at schools. And this is an issue that weve seen across the country. So, definitely the fbi is looking into that. We dont know who did this at this point. But it eats up a lot of resources and causes a lot of concerns with parents and School Employees and its a problem. But thats a thing that has been happening over the last few years. Our response protocols, we take them seriously and thank goodness the ones weve had have all been fake. Weve already had, we had a call, we got a question about this as we walked in today. In the Mission District that also turned out not to pan out, that one is under investigation. That one is started with a phone call that were following up on. Lastly in terms of major events, mainly just after action, there was a lowrider event on the 14th of november. Without incident, a lot of nice cars there, a lot of people without incident and northern head, several concerts including a wrap concert that we deployed heavily for. That is my report for today. Thank you. Thank you, chief. Quick question about some of the general comments about the reward article. Did you want to comment on that very briefly . Yes, and i would like to agendize that, i know ms. Browns Public Comment and some of the other callers. I would like to agendize, we have not had a pay out during my time here. I should say, that should fn prevent us from seeking rewards. Were hoping that some case will be solved by that, but i have not had a pay out since ive been here. There is an internal process for increasing rewards basically when the investigators have gone through the all the leads and they dont have any other investigative options at that point is when they make a request for reward. The pattern has been basically, a lot will start out 50,000, and some 25,000 depending on the complexity of the case, things like, theyre allowed a ton of witnesses to come forward and that nature. So it is not in terms of a set amount that we start off with. And whether the we or investigators have made a case or reason to raise the amount. But we have not had success in terms of people coming forward to collect those rewards. I dont think it should stop us from doing it. You see a case that rewards do break the case. Im hoping that we have success. And i do want to agendize this, that article brought out some issues that we should be transparent on. The other thing is dealing with the families. And i know, we met with many families of unsolved cases. Commission heard this and i heard this. People dont want their cases forgotten about. So those rewards, on the cases that have gone cold, we increase reward after a year try to stimulate information. Sometimes we stimulate recollection, witnesses that may be afraid, those circumstances change. And we increase the reward that that may motivate people. I think we need to keep that on the table. Ive asked if mrs. Brown and others have called in. Please email the questions that you would like answered so when we agendize the matter, any outstanding questions or concerns that you have, we can make sure that the presenters address those. Thank you t i have some questions mou, i know thats a separate agenda, so ill save those for them. I reach out to the department and spoken to chief to get some details on the protocols. There are two issues how often are they being used effectively. It seems like 2013 was the last time. I hope that they address those points that transparency and the payment. Only thing i wanted to say, i saw earlier in the news, board of supervisors member, matt dorsey is preparing a request for information along with a number of proposals. And i dont think thats been said. But whatever it is, i want the commission that is copied. Thank you, we do have that protocol. We have edge legislative copy. Thank you. Commissioner walker. Thank you chief for the update. I also agendize on these cases that are unsolved. I think its a real issue for all of us, i know. And especially the familys. So, i totally support that. I also appreciate the update on the issue on the castro. There was call that happened before, this is the third or fourth time and its generally around the politicization of the schools and especially our community and education, and everything from Sex Education in schools to assisting and supporting our Lgbtq Community in school. It really important, i mean, in the time when folks are young and in school, there is a most vulnerable and i knower i can has been supporting our community. This is troubling and its on going and accelerating. So i really look forward an update and happy to be if you need me to help with the community out reach on this, im happy to do that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you commissioner ye . Thank you very much madam chair. I just want to thank you first for all of the drug sales and coming out there and making the arrest. I just want to know if there is any correlation regarding the overdose that has ravaged the city and enforcement of the drug sales, see if there is any correlation or any data that you have that is overdose has gone down. Say the same going up. I hope maybe in the next meeting, you can report on it. And again im with, commissioner debra walker on the school issues regarding safety i was wondering if you can come forward maybe in the next meeting of the school plans. Keeping our students safe. I can do both of those. Thank you, sergeant Public Comment. Members of the public who would like to make Public Comment online item number 5. Please step forward. Yes, again, i was i would like to use the overhead again. Concerning this article which you plan to agendize. And i thank you for that. You talk about there is no witnesses, former gavin newsom said, i know who killed her son, the d. A. Know, the police know who killed her son. So if all of them know who killed my son, i even know who killed my son. These are all the names it is perpetrators that killed my son. Anthony hunter, marcus, carter, one of them is deceased. They do the names of the people who murdered my son. The regard to investigate the cases and now this 250 reward Means Nothing because none of them are being paid out. What hope does that give me, when ive been running around with these posters and standing at polls, what do we have . And here, this is what they left me with. Me standing over my sos, the lifeless body of my son. I still cry, i still cry yall. And im hurting today because of this article. Please do something. That is the end of Public Comment. Thank you. Before we get to the next item, my apologies, i forgot to start off the meeting with this month being Domestic Violence awareness month. Its being highlighted and i know the department has put a lot of effort into making Resources Available for Domestic Violence victims. And i know was it last year, that we passed the d g. O. And manual . Earlier this year. Earlier this year, okay. And so we were obviously very proud of that and had all of the stakeholders here to highlight and celebrate the work that we did. And we want to recognize that because it is dv awareness month. Thank you. Next item. Line number 6. Discussion, announcements, commission will be limited whether any issues raised for future committee meeting. Ive been on the whole meeting. Good evening, commissioners chief members of the public. I would start with dpa key statistics. We have opened 445 cases, we have clodes 548 cases. Currently 256 cased pending. We have sustained immediate ated 18 cases. We currently have 24 cases that are past the 270day mark of those 18 are told. We have 10 cased pending with the Police Commission. 87 pending with the chief. In the last week, we received nine new complaints, the top allegations was an after behaved or spoke inappropriate failed to take a require action or failed to write an incident report. With regards to our outsidity division we have two in progress. One involves the handling of officer misconduct and one involved compliant with San Francisco d g. O. 810. We are anticipating an interim audit that will be published hopefully by the end of this year and were hoping to have that update for the commission in december. With regard to out reach, dp a tabled on 300 block of ellis, we were providing information and answering questions to the community. Were also starting to provide out reach tellseder to library branches. Were working with west portal enrichment to get our materials out. With me is policy director and senior investigator ali, also available remotely as managing attorney diana. We have a number of other things that were involved in the agenda so ill be answering questions and making comment where appropriate. And that concludes this part of the report. Seeing no one in the squaou, sergeant . Members that would like to make Public Comment. Please step up to the podium or press star3. President , there is no Public Comment. Thank you, next item. Line item number 7, commission reports. Discussion and possible action. Commission reports will be limit to a brief report of activity. Commissioner president s report and commissioners reports and commissioner announcement identifying for consideration in a future Commission Meeting. Thank you, sergeant. I will start the report. This week, i met actually today, i met with dpa and the chief regarding dgos and working group fm its my understanding that dpa and department will be reaching out to the respective commissioners with respect to their work or to the assigned d g. O. S that they have. They have also reiterated the department and their commitment to help commissioner with their assigned d g. O. S. Im told that commissioner yee you reached out and theyre there to contact them. I could encourage to facilitate that. Im also told that commissioner walker have been in communication with dp a with respect to moving their dgos along. In that vain, i met with the dpa and department on the assigned d g. O. 5. 08 on non uniformed Police Officers. We met today, the subject matter was identified with respect to the dgo. Its my understanding that the department currently is working on the draft dgo which they will provide to dpa which they will have 20 days to submit their comments. And that i think was all that i had to report. From my end. Commissioner, sorry, commissioner benedicto. Thank you, president elias. A couple of briefings on my report along with commissioner walker as well as represents from police accountability. We a attended coordinated response which is run by the departments first training, ftl stands for and it was a really great experience. It was also attended by representatives by other departments, cmcr really remains very strong training by the department and leading training on the department on deescalation. We saw a wide variety of officers there from a number of stations. And just to show the spectrum of experience that training, there was an officer that was still on his one year period and a officer 30 years. All for training. One of the scenarios that the was undergone in the training was a scenario where there was a civilian individual trying to assist in deescalating the situation. And it was striking to see that scenario train yesterday that those things really do happen and can result in deescalation of a situation. Additionally, i would like to provide a further update on our continued efforts on progress on department general order 9101 traffic stops. Our next working Group Meeting will be tomorrow the 20th of october at 11 30 at the boys and girls club. That information is posted on the commissions website. And well announce more details on future meetings but were going to have additional listening sessions for the broader community, those will be in the evenings in the month of november, so well update the commission and members of the public and Community Sessions as we go and in this process. I already talked about the reward item that i would like to have agendized. On the future continue to work on dgos. I want to give recognition tocaptain who have been managing our many request about many dgos and doing so with patience and previsions thank you to both of them for that. Thats all i have. Thank you. Commissioner benedicto i was remiss by not recognizing those two individuals as well and im told theyre doing it to all commissioners an update where the progress is and what next steps are and how they can help facilitate moving along. Commissioner yanez. Thank you, and i did want to provide an update about one of the dgos that has been assigned around social media. Did provide a rational for a recommendation that they had to collapse and combine the social media. I do not believe that we want to proceed in that direction. Considering how contentious and challenging and cumbersome that can be. Im going to recommend that we move forward with activating the working group 4 social media d g. O. On independent of the Media Relations d g. O. And i believe to the department of dp as also on board with this. I hope that we can start the clock on that. The other d g. O. S that i had, the Language Access d g. O. Is going to be initialed next year because its on the second tier i believe and thats my update. Thank you, commissioner yanez. Vice president . Just want to update for me, which is i recently became aware and the minutes have not been issued yet so im not 100 sure. But im sure that committee of the california penal code just met earlier this week. And for members of the public this is a Committee Established by statute, its comprised of experts former, famous judges, former policy experts who are experts in the area of criminal law. And they commit an annual report to the California Legislature recommends changes to our penal code in the state. Its my understanding that this week they voted for this year annual report to recommend two changes among others but two are relevant to us. The first, is is that they recommend that peace officers no longer have the ability to make stops for a series of low level traffic offenses and specifically offensers were vehicle registration, position or number of license plates, lighting equipment, window tints or equipments. And then second, they also recommended that Law Enforcement officers no longer be able to make consent searches in the course of traffic stop. And i just note these recommendations because they near, they map on exactly to the what we have in our current draft d g. O. 9. 01 that is meant to curtail. Our d g. O. Is very much influx as we take in input from the community but it is good to know that were on the right track. That the expert over at the committee on the penal code are making revisions that are in line with what this commission has initially proposed. Thats all for me. Thank you, commissioner yee. Thank you very much. Madam chair. Just reporting that october 21, is our recruiting class graduation, ill be attending and saying a few words. Also on for tomorrow, the work stop for 9. 01 i plan to attend on boys and girls club. Thats all i have to report. Thank you, commissioner walker. I dont have any updates in addition to what i did last week around my dgos. I would have to say that it was an amazing experience to observe the classes, the crcm class wz commissioner benedict ofrjt monday and tuesday. And the participants and the instructor all shared how important it was for their own training and how its affected their policing in general and at the department. So, and i know that the class itself is a national model. So i want to congratulate everyone for forwarding that. Its making a difference in policing and i think everything we can do along that line is really important. So thank you for allowing us to observe. I know that it may cramp the style but its really important, if you have not seen it its really really an important effort. I want to just applaud the academy, the instructors and the department and dpa. Thank you commissioner walker. Im reminded by two other things but i will say that the cncr training is phenomenal and for commissioners who have not been able to attend, please reach out to the department, its something that is useful and something that really does help officers deal with the actual situations, that theyre faced with not could have should have situations. Two more things that i forgot to note, one. Commissioner walker has gracious lea greed to lead another dgo which is 6. 13 and then gracious alyha loud me to assist her with that effort since i was working with and we may be able to collaborate and get process. So please add that to the list of dgos. Secondly, i forgot to mention with respect to dgo the traffic stop, at the last working group, i had asked commender yip and jones to provide us with data that the commander had with the traffic stops and dgo. I wanted the data and racial make up of how many stops theyve made with respect to those specific band offenses. I was told that the working group, i forget the date that that was something the department was already working on and that that information was going to be available or would be available to us. And you said that was fine. And recall Vice President had asked for the data early on several months before. I then reached out again to of course for that data and provide it because i think that data is very important and i think the working group was very interested on that data. Today i was reminded that despite my request to have that data provided on monday and since our working group is tomorrow, i have not received that data. I was made aware that, it was commander yap and jones was working on it and it was director mcguire that was suppose to provide this data that we still dont have. That we think is going to be useful to the public, youve been at our working groups. You know the type of questions and information that they want. And i think this is extremely relevant and i think yap and jones also believe that information is relevant and its really frustrated when we dont have the information. Tomorrow is our working group, so it does not allow us the proper time for to prepare for these meetings and to get this information so we can share it with the public. You know, the working groups do get, they have a lot of questions and there is a lot of information and i think that is something that really is going to help guide us when we have these discussions. So, im not sure when we can get this data. But, im, you know, im not really sure what else to do since weve asked several times and there is nothing has been done. Go ahead. How to request to speak. Commissioner yee is going to help. Virtual meetings mess me up. Thank you commissioner. So first, let me say this. The data is i think its been sent to you since we talked. But i have not im looking at it right now. Wait when was it senlt . ~ when you and i talked this morning, i told you i would followup. But it did not get to you on monday. I do know that the data has been sent and i do know that there may be some other formatting work in terms of getting the data more readable. But im looking at it its a spreadsheet and there is been charts and it i think it does answer questions. I tick full responsibility for the delay, i dont have the answer because some of the people that i need to talk to were on a plane to get here. I take full responsibility for that, but the data has been sent. Can you make sure that the other two commissioners that are going to be in the working group also have that data. I will apologize to the public and to the members of the working group, we wished and hoped that we had this information to the provide to the working dwraoup so that they can better understand where were coming from. We understand there is a lot of false information so we thought that the data would help us quash some of the quauls information and the rumours going out about this dgo. Yes and i did not get a chance to talk to you because i was on the phone as i walked through the door. But the email has been sent to young blood and it should be distributed to you. So let me formerly say ill take full responsibility and get to the bottom of what the delay was. When things go wrong, its on me. I know i have a team. But the responsibilities. The other update, and i wanted to provide. Who was graciously helped us. Gracious lea greed to work on the commission on providing the community and ensuring that the community is heard with respect to the d g. O. Process. Often times the community does not feel comfortable going into a room with uniform Police Officers and so considering all the trauma and reasons for that, hrc had agreed to take out the Community Option for this and were grateful for them. And were going to have another listen session to ensure that the community is heard. Commissioner benedicto. Yes, again, throughout this process, were really grateful to hrc to director Charles Davis and hrc staff for providing and facilitating all of these working group and being tremendous partner. Glide are also members of the group but have offered to facilitate, that willing next wednesday the 26th f october from 4 30 to 7 30 and thats add glide methodist church. Details but it will tb the evening next wednesday so that people in the community can access and attend that. And hrc with the cooperation is focusing on. But this one is going to be focused just on members of the community. Theyre not going to be officers for those that like a forum that is of that nature, so thank you very much to glide and hrc and hrc is also coordinating additional listening sessions. Thank you. My question is what is the protocol for the use of stationary for another legislative body. For example, if something is in the board of supervisors, are we allowed then to voice our concerns on this. I was unaware of what the protocol was and its important the public know what the protocol is for writing. The letter stated that more than once that it was not on the entire board. But i was unfamiliar with the protocol as to how far were allowed to do that and i was hoping for explanation, thank you. Thats great, and i think that well agendize that, past president hersh and president taylor. And we were also advised by the City Attorney what the uses were so we comply by the City Attorneys advise, but youre right we need to agendize this so public is aware of the use of the letter head. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner yanez. I did want to add another update to my report. I have been in contact with the policy director, around coordinating for presentation around a department or the impact on juveniles since the departments approach to addressing some of the tenderloin issues as potentially lead to an impact on the jail population at the justice center. And then i also did attach myself to the dgo revision along with commissioner benedicto because im going to age myself, i worked on that about 20 years ago so it could be great to get back into the circle. Thank you, ms. Hawkins. Thank you, i would just request that the data that is being provided to the group, be sent to the group as Jermaine Jones as they have been attending the sessions. And plug cncr along with the commissioners that attended one of our attorneys and investigators. We continue to be big supporter of that training and have sent many of our staff as possible so theyre understanding all of that great training. Thank you. And sergeant can you ensure that ms. Kaywood and mr. Jones also receive the data. Thank you. Public comment. Members of the public that would like to make Public Comment, please approach the podium or press star3. President elias there is no Public Comment. Thank you, next item. Item line 8, for meeting and conferring with the San Francisco association. Judge walker retired and das office have agreed upon. Discussion and possible action. Thank you, president elias, Vice President and commission. Ill start off, im going to start high level. I know ill anticipate a lot of questions. So i really want to start off with the major changes with mou and Sergeant Young blood did read that this process was mediated by retired federal judge walker. But for the public who did not keep up, i want to talk about the process because i think that is important for the people who may not know. Very briefly this process was one that i reached outback in march i believe it was, to the attorney general to ask some assistance to resolve smft disputes that we were having at the time, the Police Department and the District Attorney over some of the mou language and disagreements on how that was interpreted and mainly information that was shared and not being shared. And this was on both sides. Initialed by sfpd but eventually on both sides. Where the california general or his chief of staff or one of his attorneys high up on the staff came in and worked on the city to establish the process through our City Attorneys office where an independent arbitrator came in. We all agreed on process and that lead to discussions to settle the disputes that were at hand and also to inform the language of this draft that had you before you and its been made public for review and comment. So that process lead us to today. That process started several months ago, i dont remember, i think it was april or after, i believe it was april. And its gone through some issues that including the change of administration in the office. But we now have a document that was vetted and reviewed by the judge, the mediator and we also took mediators input and had what the District Attorney and i agree that is a fair document to address the issue that were raised on both sides. So thats what you have before you. And i will just highlight there, there is some organizational changes and i will go through all of those. But ill be happy to answer questions but there are some very important parts of the mou that i want to highlight. And divert your attention as we go through the conversation. Page 10 and 11 at least on the red line copy that has been published, is the section that deals with evidence Case Management systems and identification of what is in the case files and the process for that identification on both sides. And that is a significant change. Part of the issue that was being debated was, what was in case filed on both sides and whether that information was shared according to mou that is still in place but has a letter of termination on it based on when we can get this mou done. So part of the issue was, each side didnt really have a full visibility and understanding of what was in those files. And what we tried to do here is come up with a system to identify what was in the files to protect the ability for either side when they, believe that they have a privilege to claim that privilege but at least, declare what youre claiming privilege on and then we can have that discussion. And if that causes the dispute, the other significant part is where there is a process built in this mou for prearranged dispute resolution and i believe and you believe, ill speak for myself not the District Attorney that i think would avoid a discussion. There is a resolution that will go and arbitrated that will be picked by both sides and negotiated by our City Attorneys office. Attempting to make an mou, i think that will avoid this from ever happening again. Uni laterally and thats where we spepd a lot of time on. I know dpa has some comments, ill reserve some comments where dpa has an opportunity to present their point of view and i know there are several questions from the commission. Ill stop there, thats very high level. But there are a lot of changes, rewording here and there. I know words are important, some of it was, Better Organization that in our opinion provided more clarity and some were very substantial like the creation of this Management System and an arbitration process that both sides agree to. So i will stop there as an introduction and happy to answer questions and discuss after commission has comment sxz questions and dpa as well. Before i turn it over to the commissioners. Im going to turn it over to ms. Hawkins, its my understand that you had a conversation with the mou if you would like to share with the public what that conversation was. Sure, ill give an overview if thats okay with you. I would like to hear ms. Hawkins recommendations. Weve been talking last night, today, up until a couple of hours of this meeting. There is a lot of discussion on this. But the bottom line, dpa has some suggestions and recommendations. Its important to let dpa speak to recommendations and i can comment. We had some, i think some respectful and productive conversations on these recommendations. But once, ms. Raises them, they may have changed since we talked. I want to hear them and then ill respond accordingly. Sure, as we a little bit of background, back in march, director henderson wrote a letter to the ag that our concerns were not going to be contemplated and when we got the draft of mou, there were concerns because we acknowledged that they do administrative. And from a practical point, that raises concerns, were charter mandated to do these independent investigations and weve had varying experiences in a way that has impede our act to investigate at certain points. So our concern is what happens at the scene. And depending if it is a cover incident in which we have jurisdiction, we want to make sure that our rights at the scene are preserved to get briefed to be present to do a walk through of the evidence. Second is the interviews and this is where things have started to break down. We show up, we are familiar situated to iad so we should be present for the interviews, not acting questions and in a separate room but we have had varying experiences with whether or not that is happening. With regard to the interviews the next area is the evidence. We believe that dpa should be included so if the timeline is that information is turned over to sfpd in five days then dpd should receive that information in five days. And thats to ensure that we dont have a situation like weve had previously. There was a video and the das office said it was the Police Department and the Police Department was to give it us and we didnt get it before the public did. So evidence and the final big bucket category is declaration letters. This is a real impact on the timeliness. We have the oneyear statute of limitations. We found it after dekli nation was issued. That impacts our deadline. Were proactive, were investigate from day one. Were not waiting for the letters. Those are the large buckets and so what our recommendation is that in those areas, there be language that say, that says, sfpd is responsible to provide x to dpa. We understand that as a das office is a state authorized agency, it would not be finding to sfpd under the authority of the commission. That is our high level requests and the most pertinent section. Is there anything else in the conversation that you wanted to share. We have more specific kind of diner, i believe also remotely for this meeting. We went through sections but that was the broad gist of it. We did go through the red line and explain with some specificity where we thought the line should be inserted. Commissioner benedicto. I think the chief wanted to add something. I can respond now or after. Ill ask my questions then. Thank you, chief and director hawkins. Im glad that we finally have a version of this mou to the public can see and that commissioner can see. Im glad that were close to thend of what has been a long process. Im going to start by saying before i go into my questions. I dont think were there yet and i dont yet feel comfortable approving this m. O. U under our authority. And obviously two parties here and hope that the recommendations are taken and considered by the District Attorneys office and considered bit mediator. So a lot of recommendations, i believe that dpa is going to issue a written red line document with the specific changes that they planned to request, is that correct . We actual actually can do that. I would be appreciative to this. If they can see those changes. Generally quite supportive of including dpa and ensuring that dp as role is clear. We have the inconsistent that theyve gotten at scenes, looking at the department of justice and the panels recommendations. Several of them cooperation with dpa involves the city working more closely with dpa, recommendations 9. 1, 9. 4 to external recommendation 10. 1 and 10. 2 all of these have to do with dpa and while i appreciate the chief had a appreciation with us earlier, there is a to keep this document narrow, but ive been clear how many recommendations have been given where ever there is an opportunity to make sure that relationship plays can be clarified. I think we should take that opportunity to clarify those. If you dont mind, im going to dive right in. On page 2 of the red line number 3, uses of force. It seems to be quoting to 5. 01 but its changes the language, and use of force directly causing injury when the 5. 0 relevant cases say resulting in, is there a reason why we went from that language to directly causing . Yes, there is. That was one of the issues that became a point of contention in terms of there were cases the typesed of cases where people were taken to hospital the person was taken to the hospital. And part of the contention ill put it that way, whether or not there should have been a note fickation call out on that particular case. And this mou, every mou meeting from the time this was created was really designed in the spirit. It was those incident causing from the use of force injuries and hospitalizations anyway are the covered incidents. There are some areas where we dont know until we know. But the point is, somebody is, taken to the hospital and theyve been involved in the use of force and you have a total unrelated injury. That should not trigger a covered incident. We wanted some clarity because we did have contention. It does not change any of the language in 5. 01, in fact number 2 refers to 5. 02 not 5. 01. It was felt that this was clearer language and easier to discern, and which one treasuring the call out response. Thats why the language was changed to clarify that issue. Okay, it seems to me that if there was an incident that qualified as a use of force, you would still have to report the incident under section 2, right . Even if it was not directly causing under section 1. So there is other, in 5. 01, it spells out, obligations of the supervisor when its they believe violation, accessive force violation. Even if it does not trigger hospitalization. Thats what number 2 is referring to. The clean up of the language in number 1 is what i just said. Which ones were obligated and contact the d. A. And they respond. And not have this abscess, not to use the use of force. Hes in the hospital, hes infected. That makes sense, it strikes me as more confusing as to have more confusion language here. Im just raising that as a question. I would like to go to page 3, i think this is one of the points that they wanted to have their role clarified in d, as the primary responsible for criminal setionz. Ill note that and theyre doing their own separate thing. And i think thats another one where i think it makes sense to put sfp investigations because i think they appreciating that this is a document between the pa where we can include dpa is always better and more in line with the dgo recommendations. Similarly on page 4, i know, on roman numeral four, they will share and on roman numeral 5. Again has been of the doj report speak to notification oversight partners there. Going to page 9, this is all about interviews. Sometimes they get mixed messaging on whether or not they can observe interviews. This is a great opportunity to make that clear. Where it says that investigates may monitor either through visual observation that should be clarified to be ied and include dpa investigators as well. Going back to page 1 1, i know this is new language and any family for back on files, in the mou, it spells what standard the office uses to grant these whies . Requests. On page 11, the last two sentences first one starting with any request and second all requests. That explains how they request these files. So m. O. U does not, actually it does, it does in, in the evidence the Management System system. Those two paragraphs, the first one from the Police Department perspective, we wanted to raise that to a command level. Previous gang was ambiguous. Were taking that off the table. We have the visibility to make the decisions that they have made. But what happens from there is, if a request is made that the Police Department believes that theyre requesting for privilege information, it falls back to the evidence Case Management. We have to declare what it is and declare the privilege and that process governors that. If its not privileged information, were going to give it to them. Okay, thank you chief. Going to page 14 of the red line drafts. There is a language, its, is that the declaration section that you would like . I think i would like to see, i cannot bind the da but sfpd should notify the dpa in writing i would like to have that. We have cases where statute of limitations have become very important. Finally the paragraph, paragraph right below this, i was a little confused about this language. It says, sfpd may undertake the progress to take into custody and booking. Thats a little more confusion to me. So the fact that its may in one and will in the others, that language is a little bit messy and could be cleaned up to make it clear. It may undertake right after another. Can i respond to that one. So that when i respond to that one as well, but this one in particular, couple of issues that occured where we were notified in some cases we were not notified at all that an officer needed to be arrested. And the chaos and scramble was on there is a lot that goes into arresting an officer particularly when theyre on the field. Its the das call when theyre going to that call. Our process is that we facilitate that. We have protocol, we have thats our choice, we can deal with Mental Health issues and all that. But its really their call. They may and they may not. We just want to know what they want to do. In some of the instances that lead us to this paragraph, we didnt know until last minute and we were scramble and in one case, the officer was on duty. And then the second sentence comes in. And circumstances as permit. Thats how i read it. You even said, you even said if we choose to do it we will undertake. And even just adding that, would make it clear. If the da would ask the department to undertake, well undertake. It looks like its own sentence. I think that was why that language, it just needs what you added like an if clause there. If delegated, if sfpd. I also wanted to ask ask if the da asked, so the way it reads now, des kressing, sfpd may undertake. And that sounds like both sides have the authority to say no. There is a circumstance where the d. A. Would say, well do it and another also circumstance where the d. A. s asked sfp to do it and sfpd declines. There is a lot of possibilities here. And i think there is some assumptions are being made that we dont know. For instance, lets say what fw that arrest and arrest on file is out of state, what if that employee is in a location where it takes more work to get. What if theyre overseas. Thats a discussion that has to happen. And you know, i dont want to give up the sfpds right to say, this is the way to do this. Maybe we need to get another department involved in this. So the made for us, if its a request that is unreasonable and inpractical, i want to reserve the right of this department to reserve that discussion. You know, thats, thats not something that were willing to do. Thats why, these things are not always black and white and they dont always play out the way we hope they play out. And that is something that i would, want to reserve the right for the department to make that assessment and have that discussion with the District Attorneys office and then we can determine what the best process is. You cannot dictate that in an agreement when you dont know what youre going to face. I know that makes sense. I know the language that has been used and other contacts. So i think which still allows discretion but it makes clear that youll make all efforts. That would make that may a little clearer. I can appreciate that if theyre not in the jurisdiction. Want to talk about roman numeral 14, the confident dispute resolution which starts on page 15. I know you talked about this, im glad that there is a dispute in this mou and it was lacking in prior mous. The ask i would have here is, language explicitly noting perhaps that the commission can be a party to any confidential agreements. I think it was frustrating to myself and fellow commissioners when asking for update, its a progress its in progress. And thats because there was not a dispute provision and confidential agreements were also executed. But if its clear as the commission as the oversight body could be a party to any confidentiality, but i would like to have that if there were disputes. So yes, i do understand, i think where we get in and i would ask the City Attorney to weigh in on that issue. I know that the commission acts as a body. So it gets us back to the same place on what is set up to be a confidential discussion about some of these issues. Number one it may lead to discussions that may come before the commission. And i know we can recuse commissioners. And the full commission that really does not compromise confidentiality. What would you face in this situation is, and let me say this very carefully. Im not trying to point anyoningerers at anything, things were made public that really, i think there was some accuracy issues and the determination were both sides. It lead to people not wanting to have these conversations, i dont want to have a conversation about Sensitive Information and were talking about cases that we, for good reason are may under the law and then the next thing we know is notice in the newspaper. Where does that get us . Because if that question is answered, maybe thats less of an issue. On my mind but i think its an issue. This, this process that was really at our requests, can, create by the attorney general took all of that in consideration. And our City Attorney also on these conversations, we were trying to protect the process so vek with these delicate and sometimes heated conversations. Then what is where we face, how are we going to report back to the commission on the issues that were trying to keep confidential. I understand the concerns, i would ask that there be some trust here and the judge appointed and trust on me that i can report back to the commission what i can report. But that got a lot of quicker, we were able to have the conversations that we were able to have. Even before change in the administration. We were able to have the conversations that we had with some safety in the room that these things would be, would be when with you walk out of the door, somebody asked what you talked about. Thats my take on it. Thats my take. If its this ever happens or if we have to go back to this judge on this mou, we have the environment where we can have the discussion and we can get the work done that needs to be done. I appreciate that, i still think, that i, im confident that we can workout a process, in conjunction with the City Attorneys office that confidentiality could be maintained there. I also want to ask why is there a twoyear stipulatelation on the mou . So i can give you original, we felt these mous would need tweaking. We felt its a natural break to at least revisit this. One thing that we learned from our ddo process sometimes if they dont get touchedcious we dont touch. Its easy to say, hey we had no incidents, lets just renew it. These things need to be revisited and that revisitization should not be because we got a dispute that made national news. It should be a process where its done, systematically whether we have a issue or not and it gives us a chance to refresh the documents. We may not even touch it but it forces the issue. Thank you chief for going through the end of the woods with that language. And i hope that we can get some of the language proposed to the judge and to the Counter Party and hope that from i dont believe any of those should be objectionable but i, i, hope that that can be done and we can improve what i think is an mou close to i think, where it should be. If i would, i would like before you go to the next commissioner, address some of the issues and talk comment. And i can go point by point, in general, i feel strongly that there is a way to get to that fpd agreement outside of this agreement. We have a agreement that we have agreed to. That the judge has recommendation for all but one. So we have a very well vetted agreement. And you know, i, you know commission is going to vote on it whether it moves forward. Then we have an mou that addresses at least the issues that brought us to this point. I do understand ms. Hawkins on wanting to be included because they do a charter the authority to be included. I think there is a more nisht way to get to this. And the other things as far as binding on both sides, there, and direct agreement to a dpa and the Police Department, are governored by the Police Commission but, my choice is to have or recommendation is to have agreement thats are binding on both sides. I understand the dpa wants visibility and i understand why. However, i cannot commit and i dont think its a good idea to commit the da and im not speaking for the d. A. , im speaking for the San Francisco Police Department and myself in terms of my professional opinion, on a document that is not about dp a, this is about what comes out. And i understand dp a gets that. We can make a real document because you have both of us and you dont have to agree that way is accountable and all of those issues. I think there is a better way to get to this. This is all about what happens in that criminal investigation. I do understand dp a, but i believe there is, more efficient way under our system, under the charter to get to that where this can be governored the agreements westbound governored by this Police Commission on both sides. And we have not raised the Police Department, this just happened over the last 24 hours. We have not had time to raise, you know, any, any or talk about internally about what our expectations would be under this type of agreement. Most is providing information but discussion when it comes to their obligation. So i just dont see a value of a document that puts all of this stuff about dpa in it and this is really about the sfpd and the das office and the issue that brought us here that i believe has been resolved and what you have before you and there is a cleaner better way. And i dont think that would take very long to get through the sfpd agreement. Some we already have. Notifications, we have strict protocols that are enforceable. We have rules on document protocols and im not saying that they are perfect but i do think that index and transparency around what is in these cases, gives them a leg up on us and the District Attorney and i would like to see the agreements remain on this body and not with the District Attorney where its not enforceable anyway on a disagreement. Thats my take on it and my opinion. And sarah and i and others have had good conversations about this. Yeah, i think we had a conversation about that earlier and i think my response, i want to make sure that the response is in the public too. We have two responses fpt i do think its a belt and suspenders approach. The language does not mean that we as a commission ensure good rules to make sure that you have good access. Dpa can be protected in multiple places throughout our ordinances. I think its you know, even if its a little bit of a belt and suspenders that strikes me as fine. I dont think that makes that change that they dont double the length of mous, i think that we can have both clearer direct tiff with the department and da as well as adding it here as well. And i also think even if its not binding, having the role can help those in the d. A. s office if they have control of questioning that theyre going to look at questioning on who is allowed to watch my video tape. And if it says, clearly dpa can watch that is one less fight to get dpa access to an investigation. It just makes it clearer in that sense. And i think it allows that to happen and i think its, it allows for sort of multiple forums for those improvements to be made as well. And ill stop here because i know this can be a really long back and forth and im not trying to make it that and please ms. Hawk ins, under the current system, we have a document protocol. And the sample that was given about the video, now transparency number 1 that the video exist. Dpa will get that investigation because we already have videos. There is already a report on documents of whether or not dpa is requesting them or getting them. That currently already exist. Now that video is not turned over under the current document protocol. You know, if we want to carve something out for officer involved shooting investigation and incidents covered by dpa, i think that makes sense. I just think that we have process thats really address this and i do understand, i understand where theyre coming from in this and i understand where youre coming from. My objective is to get this criminal investigation mous that we had problem and i had problems with anyway and this Police Department had problems with, to a place where we had an agreement that the District Attorney and her team and the Police Department and hopefully the Police Commission has resolved the issues. I do believe, although i understand them. We have system thats address some of these. Those need to be tightened. Im all for that but it i think it complicates this and ill stop there. Ill yield to the next person in a second but the last thing, we spoke this if this mou was really only limited to interactions between the da and pd it would be different. But it has language about administrative investigations, about dpa, you cannot do do something halfway. At the point that you decided to include dpa and reference and would necessary include dpa when they stand in the shoes of ieb we need to be complete. I think thats why im supporting the inclusion exclusively because roman numeral 4 and we have reference to who gets to be in the room. If this reference in a room were fine but the point youre referencing it, we need to be clear and previce about who needs to be in there and that includes dpa and thats where ill end. Thank you very much. Thank you commissioner benedicto. Vice president carter. Well vice carter ober is stone is preparing. I understand its the only one mandated to investigate oises per charter to to not have them in the room is hard to understand why. But im going to turn it over to my colleague. Great, thank you president elias. I think everybody agrees that this is a very important document and my sense, im not comfortable voting on it tonight given that weve only had a few days to review it. I think we would benefit from additional time to go over and its something that we understand and comfortable with. Im not going to get back into the details of the dpa should be included. Ill just say that for all the reasons that ms. Hawk ins and mr. Benedicto said it makes sense to have a global document that includes and anticipated the role that dpa will have to play into these critical incidents. Chief, just want to clarify, you agree that this commission under the new 3. 01 is required to approve this document . Acquire to what . Under the new dgo3. 1 this commission is now required to approve this document in order for it go into affect. Yes, and i think i know thats how its calendared. Okay, just wanted to make sure. So question, the definition of ois in here includes and thats an page 2, includes a geographic restriction that it has to occured in San Francisco but the other and i could be missing something but the other types of incidents dont include a similar jurisdiction, is there a reason for that . Where are you looking at commissioner . Page two of the red line, number 1 rather definition of officer involved shooting and then, youve got for purposes of this mou, covered incidents, do not include and then number 4 it says incidents that occur outside of the board of the city of San Francisco. Why dont we have other incidents, in custody depth those definitions dont have a limitation. Im curious if im missing something. Okay, what the issue is here, is is not officer involved shooting is a criminal investigation. By nature, its a criminal investigation. There is going to be a criminal investigation. So that happens in san mateo county, if it happens some other county, thats their jurisdiction. If its a accessible, were going to stick to officer involved shooting. A death does not equate to a criminal investigation. In custody deaths are investigated criminally, theyre looked at criminally and in customer deaths, its the level of when somebody dies in police custody, the spir sit of this is, we believe that nr should be an independent investigation. The fact of the matter is, it turns out to be criminal, then there is a jurisdiction issue there as well. But the death itself, its not as clearcut as an officer involved shooting. Just by nature, its going to trigger criminal investigation. Lets say youre transporting from marin county hospital because we deal with other counties sometimes. And they have a, a apparent heart attack and die while youre on the freeway. Thats a probably going to be investigated as a medical call not a criminal investigation. And that administrative investigation will take place. Now if somewhere in that process, there is determined that there is criminal cult tibls that case, because its already been investigated by the District Attorneys, that will be investigated who is going to prosecute that case. On the service, on surface of these, a lot of debts some of them are medical issues that need to be looked independently, not necessarily criminal. I think thats the contact behind that. I understand your comment. I just maybe suggest maybe making those clear because those jurisdiction can come up easily. And by omission it gives sense to that regard regardless of integrity of the investigation is carried out, it creates doubt where colleagues are so intimately involved. So, it just didnt seem structurally to accomplish most basic goal which is to inspire Public Confidence that these investigations will be conducted independently. So i want to raise that and then ask you a couple of specific questions. So, throughout the document, it refers to sfpd without specifying which Division Within the department whether its isd whether its referred to the hold department anyone. So why, should i, as i read this document isd gets access to everything. Why should they get access to this case. Yeah, i think there is a couple of questions in there. Lets start with that first, that just simple question. Why should isd get access to all of this stuff where there is ans la re if there is no parallel investigation. So let me, let me back up a second. You did have some assumeses assumptions that i need to address. What i heard you say, and please clarify this if i heard this correctly, i heard you say that all documents, all information is instantly handed over to sfpd that is not necessarily the case. This is the 10,000 foot, well get about the details, but the general thrust of this document is clearly in the general course information will be shared from the da to the department subject to certain exceptions and there is fiveday delay for entering into log and all of that good stuff but thats the big basic tour of what youre doing. So now im asking a big question. It seems to me, the only legitimate role it would play here is to conduct a parallel investigation. But if there is no parallel investigation why should they have access that the da is collecting and if there is a criminal investigation. If there is an parallel aisd requests documents, the prosecutor can assert a privilege, i mean or assert an object jebsing to go those documents over. And is sfpd objects that. But they would not privilege. What is privileged or not . And this is what got us here. Some things, we believe were not privileged others believe theyre privileged. Some things based on the current mou that were operating , not this new one. We didnt when we asked for it. We just didnt receive. So if there is that type of scenario where there is no isd investigation, i dont believe isd would just be asking for documents but if there is no isd investigation and the prosecutors wants to assert that there is no reason for you to have this and were not going to turn it over to you, there is a dispute process that we can, we can go through to settle that situation. So i dont see that being an issue. Let me just say, i think this is a issue what youre saying right now, what youre saying, this document does not contemplate that this sensitive will be on a need to know basis. There is only two basis for withholding the information under the definition of protected activity. One is privileged information and there is a second part that ill ask later. But its certainly, there is no way that the da should say, there is reason why you need this. But this document as its written now, its open season. This information is available to the department in an order course. And its usually it does not say who in the department is able to touch it. So i guess, it seems like maybe we agree, if there is no parallel investigation, isd would not need the information. And i guess my point is, this document would not permit the da to do what you just said to say, you dont need the information for any reason so im not going to give it to you. This document does not allow that. Yes it does. Well then point me to the provision. The provision is first thing is in this evidence Case Management system, all evidentary will be clear. Sfpd has language in this. Im on page 10 in the red line copy, evidence Management System. So not to read this, but protected material, those things have been defined. Number 5, material should be protected the ideas must be included with the brief description and the basis for. Must be set on the index. This allows the party to know, now ed privilege does protect it because there is no need to know if the da wants to assert, there is no need to assert this document. There is no need to know. I agree, its not inclusive but protective status. I understand, and we want to have that legal discussion. This is not a legal discussion on page 10 protected materials are defined. You cut me off can i answer the question please. Please. If the da asserts that there is no need for the sfpd to have these documents, they can assert the need or right to know under number 5. And then it redisputes, theyre not just going to hand it over if they believe we shouldnt have it. They can assert, you have no need to know and they can go to dispute resolution to settle that agreement. Number 5 does not prevent, i understand that there is legalities to protect it. But this document does not prevent them from if were asking for some ridiculous thing and its investigation, there is no need for, they get to do that. My interpretation is and i cant speak for them but i can speak for how i got here and they can do that. I believe thats there is a process for that. If they say no were not giving it to you. We got to know, were not giving it to you, protected or not protected. We have no process to dispute this. And i think the dispute resolution is welcomed, i think thats a nice edition to this. I think were going to have to agree to disagree. When you look at protected materials, there is protected materials does not include anything about what you need to know. D. A. Has no basis thats what is in black and white now. To my bigger point, we have an agreement right now where evidence of sensitive criminal investigation to an officer is free blowing whether or not the department has any legit need to have that investigation. Youve got it over. They can raise an objection and that is settled bit arbitrator. The ar traitor will then look at the definition of the protected materials. We dont know what the arbitrator, i know youre working off assumptions, i understand the point but assumptions that this is free for all of the District Attorney Attorneys Office just handing over information that we have no business having, i dont agree with that. I think thats an assumption that, you know. This document is replete with references of streamline and instantaneous evidence. Let me ask you a different question with this same problem that exist. What is wrong with this alternate system . Im going to throw this out there and you tell me why this is wrong. Why not have an mou that has the following, role to immediately secure the crime scene and aftermath. Beyond that the da will handle the investigation of the criminal investigation, dp a will handle the administrative investigation, and to make my example simple lets make sure that there is no anselary. There does not need to be any evidence shared with the department because its no longer conducting a criminal investigation. That example you just gave is not, does not take for, it does not take a account of reality of what these investigations are. And what i mean by that is sfpd as structured right now, has to have a role in these investigations, the crime scene management, the evidence collection all of those things that the das Office Currently dont have the ability to do have to be done by sfpd. Sfpd have to be managed and supervisors thats clear in this mou as well. What you just suggested and offered assumes that the das office can conduct from stick to tern including collection of evidence and all of things that go along with that. They dont have the ability to do that. Thats not reality right now. So there is definitely a need to Work Together on these investigations. And tying that into, im not going to be im not going to go back and forth on the last issue because i think, i stated my point there. The reason that there has to be some collaboration under this current structure infrastructure is, the das office dont have the ability to conduct a truly independent investigation. Nor does the california doj nor does the any other entity, i cannot say no other entity. There has to be some collaboration, heres the other practicality that youre not taking into account. The witnesses have to be identified, they have to be located, they have to be, you know, something has to be done to manage the witnesses while all of these things are being spun up. The notifications and response. Sometimes that leads to witnesses saying, i cannot stick around, heres my statement, we take the statement we share it. There are things that happen in these investigations that virtually make it impossible to have a truly in a sense that youre talking about, independent investigation. The das off leading the criminal investigation was the language that was devised to address the issues fpt once they get to the scene, the criminal investigation is theirs. We direct our employees to say they direct theirs but that criminal investigation is theirs. But it does require cooperation at the scene and after the initial scene. There has to be that kind of cooperation. Long story to your answer made short, is we dont have an infrastructure to do what you just suggested and i dont see that happening in the near future, because those Infrastructure Resources dont exist by the District Attorneys office at this time. Sounds like youre saying there are practical barriers to making that happen in real life, you know, the da does have some staff to conduct investigation but not enough to be done. Okay. Witness interviews and yes, i get it. There is a lot that goes on with these investigations they dont have the infrastructure and capacity to do. Right, lets go to the last thing, i dont want to relitigate our viewers on what the document says. I do want to ask you gep, it seems like we did agree on investigation that the isd would not need information from the da if there was no parallel investigation going on. Is that your view . Yeah, so let me answer for the public pisd, investigative services, we talk in acronyms because we know what that means. They investigate the parallel criminal investigation. For the public, lets say there is a robbery that lead to the shooting, isd will investigate that robbery. If there is a situation and just to answer your question here, for whatever reason, there is no parallel investigation, with isd need to have that information, i cannot see a reason that the answer would be no. Now, the other part of this is, the Investigative Team would. And there is, clearly laid out processes for this. I, you know, and im sure there is scenario that could happen and maybe could have happen where there is no larsery happening. Maybe this is part of your question where the person believes to have committed the parallel investigation formally known as ans larry. Lets say that person is diseases, we still conduct an investigation to close that case out and make sure we think what it is it is. If there is not a crime, dont see a need for us to have any information and my, my interpretation and discussing this, the das office could assert that and we disagree then we go through this process. Like you said, they would still have to hand over the information thats been used for other reasons . What checks are there within the department to make sure isd does not get ahold of it, or for that matter any other department that does not have a legit need for information is there any way that ensure that this information is on a need to know basis. Yes, those investigation right side for many reasons. Sorry im talking not close to the mic, that isd comes across when they conduct their administrative investigations. And not isd, the Administrative Team so if, i believe im answering your question but please clarify if im not. They are walled off by policy, they will be pro hibting, the Administration Unit to sharing that information with isd, it goes the other way. Isd can share with administration not vice versa for that very reason. Its a violation of policy and that system is in place and has been in place. So your question to be what assurance, one thing that we track well is who gives documents and what access is given to who. There has to be some trust that that system is working. To make sure that those walls are in place. Those systems are solid systems. At the end of the day, there is no trust in the system, you know that is an issue of why is there trust. The systems are there. Great, thanks. And i do remember footnotes 2 and 3 about what you said about the wall. I would flag the words of the document often just refer to sfpd in a blanket way. The document itself does not always make clear who is getting it. And i understand the departments own policy about perhaps between walling off id from isd but for me from just reading this it comes as though, discriminating about who can see the information. Let me ask you about our favorite provision, protected, protected materials on page 10. So, as weve discussed protected materials can be privileged and then there is the second category so the da can decide to withhold materials when there is a Security Risk or risk to subsequent criminal prosecutions if disclosed. Can you describe what that means in real life . It just seems a bit broad and im not sure what that refers to. Page 10, protected materials definition second half of the definition. Im going to afb mr. Best to come up as well. From my point of view, from this, the das have their right to protect their case from jeopardy of one Security Risk that would damage their case. Exposure to that witness would cause a life threatening situation or legitimate situation where that witness is going to be in jeopardy of not providing that the testimony that that case is dependent upon. Im going to give you a good example information was disclosed and ended up being murdered. That is a real issue. Where there is location, threats that have been disclosed, the das office may want to protect that person and that case can go in jeopardy. If that situation is asserted, my mind having lived through that, that is as legitimate has it comes. I dont believe this Police Department would argue that. But if we did, that mediator would dispute. I dont know if you want to weigh in. This section was but the in there to try to address your concerns that, there is this tension in our process that has to just because of the geographic uniqueness of San Francisco. But the das office needs the a autonomy to do the investigation. Administrative investigates and criminal investigators need the information to do their jobs. This was drafted to be vague and broad because there could be so many situations when the das office feels that giving this over, maybe a witness comes over to them is related to the suspect, the suspect officer. You can probably think of a lot of factual scenarios. And we really didnt want to take that discretion. Intentionally to give the das office. You may disagree that comes in tandom why we created processing. Because we can go to this process and figure it out. And it may be one of those things where we may have to work going forward. I felt, we felt this was a better way to approach this in this situation or in this situation because i know, you guys are all of you, draft policy in this department and you cannot drost policy for every single thing. Thats the thought process behind it. Thank you, thz helpful. And would that cover to have the information such the exam that the chief and i were discussing where there is no parallel investigation. Not to dodge t probably i think there will never be a situation where sfpd as an entity does not have a need to know. I think they could organize that. So they can argue. You think that incompasses that. I think in practice thats how it would work. And where does it say anything about who in the department can touch the information. It does not say who can dictate it, the agreement does not say that. But if something is part of an admin investigation it does not go back to isd, that is effectively a process. Does the da have the right to dictate to whom things are given that does not spell that out. If somebody will always have a right. Thats helpful, thank you. Maybe mr. Beth will weigh on this as well. So this section is seth the standard by prosecutors will decide whether to institute charges criminal charges against an officer. What the normal standard is, i think that ordinary standard is that there is sufficient evidence where a reasonable jury could kikt a defendant. But we have a four prong test now and i dont know where this. I want to clarify whether the intent was to create a higher standard that we have for prosecuting other individuals who are suspected of committing another crime. From last mou, and the you know, we dont set, the Police Department dont set the standard for prosecution thats the d. A. s and has been language offered by d. A. That were okay with and agree with. I dont have the first mou in front of me so i will not speculate. I cannot answer from the das office but being from these conversations, i didnt see a need for it. And mr. When youre already up, let me ask a bonus question. The da has the authority to exercise discretion, this does not seem like the type of thing that can be saved or amended by contract. Ill throw that in the hopper why the standard is setting up a different bar. Great question, so i dont know the thought process why this was included. Its a stocker its from the prior and i was not part of the team on that and because it was there, we left it there. It is not a higher standard, its suppose to be a higher stand art. Thats my understanding so its not suppose to create protective for Police Officers, its probably the reason why its there and its not me surmising. Thank you that was helpful. Chief, finally what was the Community Efforts in relation to revicing this mou . As we all know one of the reasons that it lead doj was a series of officer shootings and killings of residents of this city. Sd and that included Community Feedback on this process. We didnt have community listeninging sessions on this process. So i will that. Particularly when we had a mediator where conversations were meant to be confidential. Its not easy to have conversation where we are in a negotiated process. Did i hear back from the community, regarding their sentiment yes but we didnt have working groups and all that. One of the things that we were trying to do is get a better agreement done quickly. And really this agreement between the da and the Police Department. In my opinion dont know if it should be that type of process. When we had the first mou that took us three years to come a way with. And im going to say that we respect and believe that the process was developed, helped us get in knees in the conversations in an efficient way. Its made available to the public, the public will have a chance to weigh in on it. And its transparent in terms of now that the document is out, well hear what the comments will be. There is no work groups no listening sessions, you know, just Long Commission meetings where we heard from many members of the public. I appreciate the frankness of your answer and i completely understand that the negotiations had to be private but i also think that would not preclude the department from going out to the communities and asking them how they would like these things to be investigated, what to them what inspired confidence in Law Enforcement, what to do would give them a sense that these were done in a truly way. Im going to flag two parts of the doj report. On page 5, it says we observed center on sfpd officer involved shooting. The Community Voice was loud and consistent in expressing that sfpd needs to be more transparent. Page 147 references after referencing the mario wood shooting, says the current process, in quotes have not satisfied Community Expectations of transparency and accountability. If the sfpd is to get trust it needs to address these. I do think it was incumbent in the department to follow what was a strenuous advise. I dont think we did it here. I will say, i brought Community Input last week and im bringing it up now. The reason im bringing it up, the department has been outspoken about the fact that it thinks that in the revision process of 9. 01, the pretext policy that we have not had enough community out reach. Thats by all accounts this has been the most transparent revision process. We had the community out reach that has been done. Im not taking any credit for that. But i have heard again and again from Senior Leadership that somehow were not doing enough with 9. 01. Whether it is the surveillance overhaul that we discussed last week. The department does not undertake community out reach whatsoever or if they do, its scant. And there is a double standard being applied to 9. 01 versus Everything Else that the department does. And i just, i dont know what is the difference between 901 and all of thesed provisions where it does not seem fit. There needs to be consistent and one standard for what is adequate community out reach and input. So let me respond to that. I disagree with you vigorously, i was here when we had the taizer discussions. And im not taking away from your efforts. It got here with 5. 01 when i was interviewed for this job i followed the out reach from southern california. Im talking about the first prevision. I was here in 1. 08, i was here for the community out reach on many other policy decisions. Im going to disagree and i have the evidence to back that up. And not all djos need that level of input. Why would we have Community Input in that. This is not dismissive of community. Your assertion that this department is taking it seriously and wish wash, im offended by this. Before you got here, this work was being done. I was a part of it, i know what is being done. There is Many Community members, 5. 17 where angela general kin and roam jones because of their Community Involvement, we have a biased by proxy policy or in that policy that came from the community, from those two individuals. Commissioner elias was there, im not trying to call you out. But she was there. Community input so for you, that its not happening, im offended and im going to argue that that is not the case. Now we can always do better, yes we can. And and we will do better in terms of having systems to make sure that the community output is happening. La z eloquently talked about the meeting today where we went over this ition. So the department is here and again, for to you tell me in this department and the members of this department that were not doing it and wishy washy, is offensive to me because i lived here. Thank you, i appreciate that. I dont think i used the word wishy washy. My words for the interpretation. Efforts. I dont agree with that. You just said, quite candidly that none were undertaken with the doj called out as community where Community Feedback were critical, this is not hyper like the dive team that you called, it was called by the United States department of justice in this accident, last week we just discussed the Surveillance Program where were expanding our surveillance, again thats another policy where, it affects members of the community and again the department did not undertake any significant out reach. And i think we agree on those things. Not entirely, let me say this, it was this Police Department that reached out California Department of Justice Torres recollect this process. And it was the department of california justice that sat down and create this process that you are, criticizing us. It was the California Department of justice who replaced the u. S. Doj, so this process was thoughtfully constructed by our City Attorney to get us through the term oil that got us to where we are now. This was to resolve the conflict and get the mou done, and again, this is not, you know, i dont even character your words but the fact of the process we went through a process that was vetted by california doj after, walked away from this process. So we used the resources that were available to us that by the way, we, this Police Department, sought out and got to keep this reform going. So Community Policing and Community Engagement and look ill say this and you know, i dont want to go back and forth, but i will say this, Community Policing is serious to this department. I know we get criticized and i know were going to get callers to make comments. Were trying to be a better department. We have processes in place, we have a commission that is serious and a police chief that is serious about this. Are we there yet, and according to your comments, absolutely not. But were trying to get there and we have evidence that we do engage in Community Policing. You know, i normally dont get animated but i was here and for to you tell me that its not accepting and were not doing it, i cannot accept that. Ill end down switchcious my underlying point is there needs to be consistency when there is a need for Community Input and when you say its not necessary. I think that its used at times selectively, just as djo9. 01 where were having the most community out reach the department has raised its voice to criticize the lack of community out reach. But yet in other nair i donts that is a clear inconsistency. Ifng the issue of Community Input is being used selectively, thats my underlying point, thank you chief. Thank you. Just for the record to clarify, that was 5. 17 in roam jones with respect to that working group, roam jones came later and when he was invited by another working group, the executive sponsor chastised the member for inviting to roam jones and it was a fight to be part of 5. 17 and i think i raised this issue with you when it was happening and we discussed that and i think thats what lead me to really continuously nag you about the working group and who gets to be invited and who doesnt. And you know that im constantly nagging you about that. Right. I would not call it nagging. Gently reminding you that the working group process is very arbitrary and select i have. I had a huge problem and you and i discussed it. The way that it was carried out. I want to highlight that. It is the chief of police who gets to ultimately decide which djos get a working group and which ones dont. And dodd from our conversation, i think that i made it clear to you as well to dpa that, the djos that are assigned to specific commissioners i wanted you the department and dp to reach out to the commission and ask you whether or not they wanted a working group. While the final decision is up to you, it was very important to me that the commissioner who is assigned to that d g. O. And who is handling that djo has input in terms of whether or not a working group is going to be needed. Thats correct. I want that to be clear because i dont want this to be happen where there is no clear transparency under which authority each commissioner has. Fair enough. Im going to turn it over to commissioner walker, i had a few questions but commissioner walker was on the queue. So im going to go after commissioner walk we are. Thank you, president elias. I want to comment that there is a Public Meeting and were taking Public Comment and there is a difference between mou and djo, it includes our partner dpa. So this is sort of a a question about is it possible to include the partnership and the delegation of authority in these investigations when necessary to the different departments . By referring to djos or in footnotes because it does not necessarily, unless youre a party to the mou, its confusing. It makes sense to talk about it when an investigation needs to swing over and include dp a investigations in foot notes or referencing attached d g. O. S or protocol or procedure. But i do think its important. Its confusing to me as a third party that youre not siding and the da and the police are signing im just going to make that comment, maybe somebody can answer. Commissioner benedicto raised same question and diana answered the question. Can we have her address commissioner walkers question . Good evening commissioners. Well i think that the gist of it is that contract are often made with Third Party Beneficiaries alike. So contracts can be simple. Person a agrees to do something for person b in exchange for money. But the officer, the acceptance, the offer to do something, can volve a third party. So they can be bound to do something for somebody else, does that make sense . Yes, if the contract the agreement, the thing that were talking about is including the vegds and interviews. Currently its not, currently there is a paragraph that basically where was that . On page 4 of the red line so if we include that p d. A. Is required to have interviews of a certain type beinger both parties have to agree with that. Right now as a dpa attorney, im not sure i should be answering that question, thats a question that you may want to pose to your City Attorney. I think generally speaking, i think commissioner benedicto said that there is no harm and no foul in including it how we enforce it. The bottom line is that, if we are, the practicality of it is what benedicto said, its a da investigator can pull out at the scene and say, please give us a room. And next no no, i think the das have jurisdictional rights by thinking forward and participating those situations, i think that we will alleviate those types of problems. From a legal perspective, i dont think that there is noig that prevents us from being mentioned and incorporated into this mou from a legal perspective. Im not sure that that is an issue that we need to a address but the benefits far outweigh any of those issues. If the commission has any legal questions about this, it needs to be addressed in close session, so we would need to agendize before that. Before i get to commissioner benedicto, im going to ask a few questions. Can i just ask a comment. It may help explain how we got here. I may be suspect for that, because i wrote a lot of this. This agreement and the two predecessor, and between the parties. And this revision process even more so with confidentiality. They have obvious interest on how these investigations operate. And also president eliases noted, theyre the only party that have authorize to operate. So my thought process with this was, it is better, since theyre not to this agreement to this contract, to not you know, deliane their obligation and their rights when its a sfpd if they were outstanding issues, sounds like operational concerns and those need to be sorted out. When i was writing this, i was not aware of those, but it sides like a side letter or another mou between two parties would fix that. But i felt that it was more differential to not drag them into through the mou when theyre not a significant agreement. So there may be thoughts on that, but thats why it was worked this one. And it was not to be dismissive. Goes back to the question how would they, ask to be part of an investigation . I dont think they need to ask they have charter rights to be there. They show up and there is this question about, well the mou between the das says that internal affairs can be there. My thought was no it doesnt. Dpa has the charter right to be here. So this agreement cannot exclude them from being here. I understand there is concerns maybe a way to handle that is a side agreement, another mou that really makes it clear. But, ye, they have their special party here, theyre not here by contract theyre here by right. Its a different basis of authority that allows them to be in the room be in the investigation. Do they know about the interviews . I mean thats the question, maybe something about notifying might be helpful. May i respond. Who notifies us. There is really no harm or foul to linking out what our role is. Were not asking for to be signature tories necessarily although that would be nice. We do think that this m. O. U is incomplete because it ignores our presence. And as commissioner benedicto pointed out, so it should for us, if its addresses id preference so it should for us. We stand in the shoes of das for instance if notice was important enough to address for the department of doj why is it not important enough for us to address. If its not important enough is it not important for us to to be added in. I completely understand chief scotts position. And im not here, were not here to say we disagree, were just asking why not. It seems like it would be a cleaner process, there is really no harm no foul putting us in, its not changing the insent, its not expressing and were describely completely describing what is going to occur so when everybody responds, not just the people in the room right now, but the people that are follow in our footprints, lets say a year from now, that dont have this Institutional Knowledge they can report back and its clear and concise and the rules are spelled out. Okay, we need to take a fiveminute break and then im going to come back and i have some questions and i know there are other commissioner on the queue. Thank you. The da myself, from our side, carol lacy, and didnt, acting assistant chief flaherty, and i believe captain coto was not there, i believe. Ana govern gonzalez from the das office. So the contract, you would agree. Yes, a contract between two parties and oversight committee, yes. And as judy says that a contract is based on the four corner if its not in the contract, we cannot consider it. Yes. So earlier when the chief was saying things about assumption basic contract law would prevail which if its not the four corner of the document, we cannot consider it, its only four corners nft document. I would say thats right, but before you get me in trouble, like i said this Vice President there were some that were meant to be vague but any contract should be limited to the language of the contract and not have all sorts of sides stuffed that is is not written down, it does not exist. And you would agree in contracts one of the things that they teach news law school is to clear as incompassing so that you dont have the gray area where legally in the contract they can only consider what is in there. Correct. And i heard earlier chief agreed with o berstone, why dont we put it in this contract so that it is clear. Well i think that the i think it goes back to what i mentioned to Vice President. They can try envision every single thing. There are there is some vague language that is attempt to capture rare circumstances but may occur. Like the unusual circumstance where there is no parallel investigation. I do think that there is room for the da so try to invoke something. About why it was vital to have his agency which was legally mandated to investigate these types of incidents in the room when these negotiations were happening. And it defies doj recommendations there is several of them, several findings with finding number 2, number 9 and finding number 10 which indicates or tells us that the Department Needs to coordinate with the dpa with these types of incidents. So im wondering why dpa was not brought into the room since again, theyre the only entity that is legally required to investigate these situations. Another thing that the doj raises is inefficiency and the problem with having multiple agreements just like they chastise the department for having dgos and all of these supplemental regulations rather than combining all in one. I was trying to write down your questions, let me go back to the one of the questions. The recommendations about coordination, of these types of incidents in i gos this is technical. When the doj made the recommendations, this arrangement did not exist. Part of some of the protocol thats were flushed out and notifications. But briefings that we have incorporated into the process. There have been growing pains as we have done this but we have a process that is much much tighter thap it was when the usdoj recommendations were made. Because i do think that we are making progress. Why wasnt dpa was out. And at that time director henderson asked and again you heard every commission and he would say it to anyone and everyone who would listen including writing a letter to the aj, why they were not in the room. So this agreement is about recovered incident and the information that from that. I notice the repeat from what i said early, this is primarily the reason. It could have been addressed at that time. That is. It could have been. Technically it could have been. It was not the first time or second time and not the third time and i will say this without breaching any confidentabler, all three times it was discussed. Okay. Including with the doj. I guess my concern that was raised during the discussion, like odpa can arrive on scene they have the ability to conduct an investigation. There has been no coordination in terms of department notifying them, notifying dpa of interviews that are taking place and things that they would be legally required to have access to that information. Fact that its not working. What youre trying to say is that we have a policy in place that allows dp access so we should not worry but i think the problem is that that policy is not working and its not being followed. And the one entity that is required to do this type of work is being excluded. Yes, commissioner, president , i i dont agree with the characterization that its not working. I know specific examples that have been sited, the video, i would not character that its not working. I think it is working. I think it is working better than it used to work. And the agreement between sfpd and dpa about interviews and sharing of information and all that, can be addressed through a separate document. I hear the briefings and i see what is happening in the scene and i know the process and a lot of this mou addresses, our concern with the das office is, what flows in those information and number one identify and number two turn it over and number three we need to know why so we can have that orment. That does not impact dpas ability to address the issues. Theyre at the table, they have Charter Authority to be at the table. Let me get close to the mic so you can all hear me. And definitely, you know, i think an agreement that can be quickly done in tefrmz of what those concerns are, like the videos that or the notification once we get the notifications, that is the things, those are the things that can be handled in a separate agreement. We have all of those things. But theyre not would bering. Commissioner not to be disrespectful, i dont think thats true to say theyre not working. From 2017 to now, there have been incredible improvements in these cases that relationships, the sharing of information, im not saying its perfect, im not saying we dont have from time to time, incidents like what was mentioned here. But i dont think thats an accurate statement as a matter of fact, its not a accurate statement. I will state from what i see and hear and what dpa has brought to mia tension prior to today. Fair enough, and i guess im basing on the conversation thats ive had with director henderson and its been more than incident but im going to at this point, ms. Rosenseen has her hand up. Im going turn it over to address that and if she would like to address what the chief just said if the chief just in invited. Yeah, and ms. Rosedene im asking the commander because hes the person doing this work and has been the last year and i can speak to his predecessor. Hes available for questions and to have the discussion with mr. Rosestein. Hi. I just wanted to clarify something because im a little bit concerned that we are using the Term Contract and mou interchangably. Those two concepts have distant legal meaning. Its not legally binding contract. It is used to demonstrate parties to do whatever action is necessary for a specific incident. I wanted to put that out there for to respond to commissioner walkers question. To whole thing is to member alize agreement. So the idea that because there is only two people signing contract that a, its contract and b, that its not enforceable. I will differ to the City Attorney. I just wanted to make sure that i had the language correct. I do agree with the chief saying that things are not working is a strong statement. I do think things are working and things are improving. The concern is this, were not saying that sfpd is at fault. What were saying or das office is at fault. Sometimesed there is confusion at the scene and its easy to point fingers because people who are not people in the room that you just discussed dont know everyones respective roles. If there is a document that can be pulled up on somebodys phone and pointed to say, hey, heres a document that incompasses all of us and heres what it says. Then there is no confusion. Because what you might, what we see happen, lets say i pull it up and its just sfpd and the argument that i envision, im not saying that this is going to happen or has happened. The point of mou is to think forward the possibilitids out there. And this is a real possibility is that sfp, we say look were entitled to be here and sfpd says, yes youre entitled to be here because of us but the da is in charge here and do you have that same contract with the da . Oh you dont, there is nothing you can do. Thats why, those are the reasons why of including us versus excluding us that including us the benefits far outweigh the detriments and as everyone just said, that we are entitled to be here. Why would anybody object to that. Im not sure that the argument would come from to say that we would be mentioned in the mou and the roles and responsibilities would give a controversy if everyone agrees that our responsibilities is spelled out in the charter is my point. Im disappointed to hear that dpa does not feel that weve cooperated. Ive been at every covered scene for the past year and i can tell you personally that, we have ive talked to my lieutenant and captain about contacting dpa were very very hyper vigilant about that who is going to contact who. Youre part of the conversation, its almost like a family, we have a covered incident, who is covering dpa and im on the scene. And ive been on the scene where we coordinate with dpa and they share how happy they were with the way that we shared information with them and walked them through the scene and coordinated a safe avenue approach. I drove them to the scene, so im really disappointed to hear this. But having that, i dont have contact with dpa throughout the process. So if there is something that we can prove process lets do it. You obviously are diligent about contacting dpa and making sure that theyre in the room but the people underneath you that are facilitating some of the instructions are the same page is what im hearing. Just one more comment. So we have the same challenges, we dont like to wait for hours, but we have to coordinate with the control. We have to make sure that the crime scene investigators get there and do their jobs before we open the scene. Dpa is part of the investigation. And to keep them safe and to get them the information. So we also have challenges after the fact on getting some information. So we share that, so we have the case at the airport where we have to contact the partners so yeah, there are times we have to wait. We have to get in contact to make sure that thats clear. There are challenges to getting the information. We want information faster than were getting it. At in point have we said dpa can wait. California doj, california djo. Thank you, commander. I agree that its been cultable. Its not that were waiting, its that where theyre happening when theyre happening. There are efforts and i dont think its you and its not a blame thing. And evidence process has been complicated. Multiple tiemds. Thank you, i appreciate that. You really want to step . I dont know if i want to or not, but im with the real point. I appreciate the legal distinction, i think its the fact the same. Thank you. I think for, again the issue of including or not including. If im just trying to make it to down point. If there are problems that need to be fixed, thats a fair, we know how difficult it is but its a relatively easy process. If we have to go back and we have this huge omnibus agreement, we have 3, four parties who are getting involved in this and is that really necessary when the m. O. U is pd d. A. , m. O. U it does touch on the because it has to. But its about the criminal investigations and how these are done. There is a sensible agreement. Commission has full control over what eventually gets through. So, food for thought. I appreciate that and everyone can see, its were having this robust discussion because we were not in the room when this happened, right. And we were all excluded the public, the commission, dpa so we have these litany of questions that you know, understandably need to be answered and we need clarity on. We have a pending legal question with our City Attorney that we need to answer. But i appreciate your distinction and respect of judge duty. Lets go to commissioner benedict o. Ser. Thank you president , i know there is[indiscernible] at this time to make a motion to not approve mou as written at this time and direct the chief and the department to go back to the District Attorney and the mediator to consider the changes that have been suggested in open session including the written changes the dpa is forthcoming and present them to the mediator and da and once that is done, return to the commission for discussion and action whatever changes might be made or none but to take the changes back and bring them back to the mediator and District Attorney. Im going to ask to amend the motion to also include that if that motion passes, that the current mou be continuously extended until we get this resolved. I have no objection to the friendly amendment. At this point i will take commissioner byrne and then well get a second to the motion. Thank you. Thank you president elias, i guess im going to ask mr. Bets back up. First off, i want to talk about how we ended up here. We ended up here over six months ago because an mou was canceled. By the chief because of the concerns among other things like cooperation between the District Attorney of San Francisco and the San Francisco Police Department. Tonight we heard about dpas objections of not being in the room and this the discussion went on between cooperation and dpa and dpa and cooperation on other investigations which have nothing to do with the mou. So there is clearly a concern there. But those concerns should be addressed separately because we have jurisdiction over dpa and San Francisco Police Department. But mr. Bets, we do not have any jurisdiction over the San Francisco District Attorney, is that correct . Correct. And is it fair to say that it was an arms length negotiation between the San Francisco District Attorney and the San Francisco Police Department . In the sense that it was, define arms length. Im going to say yes or no and get in trouble. Tonight weve got the pureless case and mr. Paul graph between vagueness which is peerless that english case from the 19th century and this direct resulting good ol ms. Paul graph. But anyway, getting to the next point Vice President has brought up issue, but those would be issues that the District Attorney would raise. I know the negotiations are private between you. So my concern is, there is an election coming up. We may have a District Attorney in the new year and what we have now, what the motion that they just made is clearly flawed. It didnt work, it caused the police chief with all due respect to take action and cancel that thing rather abruptly, if i remember correctly. Between the Police Department and the District Attorney in the prosecution. What i do know is, the jury came back with a not guilty verdict. So, im going to make a motion that that we adopt this for three months that it goes to the poa because it involvesed their working conditions, because its clearly better because what is in the thing is that arbitration clause. And the reason that were here is because there was no arbitration clause when the chief abruptly canceled the thing. Now there is an ability if we let this thing go through for a few months, where if god forbid another Police Officer gets involved in an officer involved shooting and the da has to come out and investigate, and the tension that has existed. At least there is means of arbitrary. My big concern is what were going to end up happening if the motion that commissioner brought forward and i agree that there are flaws in the agreement, if there is another incident. We can end up in the same situation that we had six months ago. And if we put, if we put this flawed thing in, and i greed its flawed, im not going to sit here and defend every aspect of it. Im not going to, with all due respect to my learneded friend, the points were points that the da did not seem to be important. And its clear that the dpa has a role and a major role. But, we dont, the da does not have jurisdiction over the dpa. Its something that needs to be resolved once and for all. And that way, when the new District Attorney if there is a new one comes in in january, theyre in a position where theyre not bound bit thing maybe a for a few weeks. Weve got an arbitration clause that from the sense of commission i get, is way better than what existed before. And then we have the ability to fix the thing. To get the community out reach. But to go on and with all due respect to ms. Jenkins office and the chiefs office, would commissioner benedicto brought up at the last meeting, where is it . Where is the new mou . And yeah, weve been waiting too long. We have been waiting too long. And what we need to do is do something tonight to show the public that were going to do something were going to deal with the timely but only put it in to get the input to fix it so we have a better document. But, and i, with all due respect disagreeing with saying lets keep the more flawed mou in while we wait for pefntion. This is the real world there is one prosecution that failed last summer. We dont need another prosecution to fail and we dont need sniping to say it was the Police Departments dault, it was the das fault and they come left and right. We dont need that, we need Something Better than what we have now. And though this is flawed, and im not going to defend bits and pieces, yes the old one says, about the standard and yet they use the word should, who cares, it is not shall or will so you should, maybe you shouldnt. So yeah, we can sit there, i learneded friends some of the lawyers are much better lawyers than me but to go on the way we are and not do anything, is wrong. We owe it to the city and county of San Francisco to act decisively but to limit the length of time. So i make a motion two fold, number 1, that the department Police Department meet to iron aon agreement and report to us within 45 days as to their complaints of not having access as i mentioned about the witnesses, the stuff we heard tonight which a lot does not relate to this mou. And the second part of the motion that we move this to go because were stuck having to deal with the poa that they go for the advise and consent and that last until the new da would be sworn in at the beginning of january and i dont know who the d. A. Will be or will it be the same one . And that last until the 15th of february so that the da can then decide what they want to do. And we can show the people that yes were going to do something, yes we want to make the document better but its clear that this document is a lot better than the document that we, that they want to continue. That a chillies heel, the flaw and even though this is flawed we need to act on it so we can avoid problem. So i make that motion, i dont know whether im going to get a second but its up to the president and how we want to proceed. Passion speech. Can i interject for a second. I just need to clarify that any motion to adopt is subject to meet and confer. So commissioner byrne your motion to have to be clarified to meet. Procedurally, we need to move to commissioner byrnes motion. We have a motion by commissioner benedicto your name was in the queue was there anything you want to add. If pick respond thank you commissioner byrne for making those comments. We shared an impatience through this process. I asked the chief as weekly report every week since my first week on the commission we were on the mou, i just want to make clear that if the commission was not involved in any earlier point in this process. If that were the case. This is the first time that the oversight body of this department had a chance to review it and i believe between 4 and six continuance. This is one that were asking for to make these changes. I agree that no document is perfect and i would not im not trying to say to perfect enemy of the good. I think we have a responsibility that if this toment to not let that be the enemy. I reject the idea that its just a take it or leave it. Thank you. Thank you. May i spobd. Respond. Sure. What im proposing is just an interim thing. Because i think you would agree that that arbitration clause is critical. And we dont have one now. So if we vote to extend t you would agree we have no arbitration clause, so what happens was it march or april of this year. There is nothing to stop it again. Because were not adopt, this is not going to be the final thing. But its the first thing that has been brought to us, its manifested better than what it was before. I plead with you that that is what we should do. Not accept it, not say hey were going to give them a blank check. Were not going to give the San Francisco Police Department a blank check. What im proposing to do is give them a check until february 15th, with an arbitration clause. So that if there is an officer involved shooting in the next few months, we have a better mechanism to deal with it than the mechanism that exist today. Thats all, it will give us four months, five months to deal to deal with the issues that have been rightfully brought up by you commissioner and by Vice President oberstone but if we sit here were going to be a nice debate club for the next month and maybe we need to fix this and that. Instead we have something that has a definite knit expiration date, that has definitely definitely better than what is in the other one. Thank you. Vice president carter oberstone. So, you know, i appreciate the argument that commissioner byrne has made. And the vigor of those arguments and i agree this is attorney for us to get this right. It sounds like though the most important reason to provisional lea proof the new mou is because of the mandatory resolution provision. And i think what i hope alleviates some of your concerns while this document does require it and the old document did not, there is nothing stopping the parties to submit resolution. And theyve already shown a willingness to do so over a number of months to remain at the bargaining time and time again and to respect the the rules of the mediator. I dont think that is the reason to approve this new document. As commissioner benedicto said, they made an ex clues from the negotiation process. And i understand there is reasons to do that. But now, i dont think its appropriate to jam the commission up at the 11th and expect us to pass something of this significant after reviewing it a couple of days and already identifying some serious flaws. So for that reason im going to second commissioner benedictos motion. May i respond. Lets take the vote. I think commissioner benedicto is in the queue. I would like to say if procedurally, we can approve it. The da would have to agree to a threemonth period directing them to do a 3month directional period. Yonds if thats, if thats necessarily workable as. Well, if im going to respond to both of you. Number 1, thats something that the da can make up their mind in 5 to 10 minutes as opposed to changes. So its an up or down quickly. And in response to Vice President , United States prides itself to have a written constitution so there is something. What youre proposing is something that came to the british conclusion which is unwritten and were all going to act in good faith and were not going to have that problem. And without getting too esoteric the unwritten constitution blew up in australia about 40 years ago when the attorney general fired. Though the operators are operating in good faith, the constitutional cries when you have an unwritten constitution and im sorry about being esoteric about what happened in australia but the queens in australia turned around when they could not agree on budget and said to the prime minister, youre fired. Isnt it better to have something in writing at least in the interim thats my only point. And im sure the parties acted in good point but there was a lot of bad faith after tha. Its fluid, i agree with the commissioner it will come back to us, well be back in two weeks, it will be an up or down. It gives the new District Attorney and there may be a new District Attorney an opportunity to say, were not behind the new District Attorney because what ms. Jenkins with the two year is binding something that could be a new District Attorney. Again, i want to be practical. And i want something in writing that the parties can rely on. I dont want it long because its flawed. And thats why im pleading with it, i think well send a message to San Francisco that yes we care and yes youre right. What they brought to us on friday is being rammed down our throats tonight. What im saying, is yes were prepared to be stuck with this for a few but lets fix it because this document is way better than what exist before. And i dont want to rely on good faith. Because they reacted on the good faith before. If i get brain working quickly, there are other examples and then the whole thing blew up. I want it in writing. Thank you. Thank you, no worries. So we have a motion on the floor, commissioner benedicto i amended the motion to include the last portion, Vice President second the motion and i assume youre seconding the amendment as well . Yes, second the motion as mended. Can you read the motion. Sure. The motion to not approve the mou as written at this time to go back to the District Attorney to consider the changes tonight including changes to accountable and present them to the da and mediator and once that is done return to the commission for discussion and action and continue to extend the existing mou until such a final mou can be approved. We have a second. And just so the commission is aware and i think commissioner byrne made a great point. If this motion passes, ill be agendizing this motion at the next Commission Meeting both in open and closed seconding meeting commissioner i need to interject so the portion of the motion that moves to extend the exist ing mou, is not agendized so that is beyond the scope of what can be voted on. You can indicate that you would like to chief to do that, but its not properly agendized. The chief has been extending it so far, but im confident that we have expressed that we dont want anybody operating without an mou, and you agree that you never want to operate with an mou. We dont want to wait forever. So as the motion, Vice President are you going to second. Second the orng motion. Take roll. Those that would like to make comment online 8, approach the podium offer press star3. Good evening caller you have two minutes. Speaker yes, im just calling im going to make it very quick. Im calling to support the m oui and if you dont support it, at least support what commissioner byrne has just proposed. It makes sense, were getting tired of listening to you the commissioners, its time that we Work Together and not against each other. Thank you. Good evening caller you have two minutes. Speaker yeah i wanted to support the mou, i understand that pa jenkins and the chief spent a significant amount of time coming to an agreement and getting this in front of the commission. So i believe it was former president obama who said that, better is good. Even if you get a 20 improvement in something, thats a win. Good evening caller you have two minutes. Speaker im ses knee and im calling to support the support for jenkins and new mou that they have collaborated on. If you have productive workers thatthis mou should be supported by this commission. And the people who executed it can be trusted. Ive always been supporter of chief scott. Its clear that jenkin respect for the law and process and our Police Officers has restored the trust between her office and sfpd thank god. The people of San Francisco have made it clear that we care and value our Police Officers. We want them protected and respected and allowed to do their job. We expect due process in our criminal Justice System and now chief scott and jenkins we are getting that. For a group that professes that they care about Public Comment, you didsupported attitude but the nature of this meeting tells me i cannot. You should all[indiscernible] good evening caller you have two minutes. Speaker good morning this is gloria from district 10 as im speaking as an individual. I support the mou draft. Im concerned that during the recall season this mou became an issue. Im even more concern that da election this is being pushed through. And the high possibility of us having a new da elected in a few weeks that were taking chances of mou shifting and we can end up here again. Ironically the interim da has pushed the case the keito has been pushed back and this has been pushed back as well that the timing of this possible action is not politically motivated. Lets remember if it was not for the public, these investigations would not be focused on. Finally im concerned about officers that may be willing to speak to the das office where people may be discouraged from doing so because document sharing is track, word of mouth is not. Thank you. Good evening, caller you have two minutes. Speaker this is David Erickson from district 1. I dont think the mou is ready to be approved. We know that based on sap. Two terms and condition requires person to go to the hospital or supervisory evaluation to trigger the investigation. Were going to the, with regard to body worn cameras that needs. They would not cover in my reading cause of force, that needs to be addressed. The first carter oberstone brought it tup, i sent a note to the Police Commission with 8 concerns, the only response was from chief scott none of the commissioners responded. So please try touting that as. And having this discussion, meant the Community Involvement was being, was being received by commission, thats just ridiculous. That bar is low, that this is how you go with getting Community Engagement in this type of thing. It has to be bert, thank you. Good evening, you have two minutes. Caller you have two minutes. Speaker hello. Can you hear me. Im trying to support the resident of very las questions, i support the mou, we have heard the previous one. Didnt meet the expectations and really needs our da and our Police Department Work Together. I dont know who you guys are, but you cannot hold the residents of San Francisco based on your preference. Its time to move on for the well being of all San Francisco. Thank you. Good evening, caller you have two minutes. Good evening, im just calling in to give my support to the mou that was drafted by the da per jenkins and chief scott. Got to get San Francisco moving in the right direction. Thank you for your time. Good evening, caller you have two minutes. Speaker yeah, good evening commissioner this is paulina. So look the mou is well thought out in the current form. I just da jenkins and chief scott and i appreciate their Work Together. The prior mou had a lot of gray area which resulted in many conflicts while this is clearer. Approval is critical to the unified working relationship. So, you know, just please stop messing around, approve this as is, and lets move on from here in a positive direction. Thank you. Good evening, caller you have two minutes. Speaker hello im dr. Mccolin stock, chief scott thank you for your work i really appreciate it. I support mou and also investigations for Police Misconduct im in support of the mou, thank you. Good evening, caller you have two minutes. Speaker good evening im jan and just briefly, for the well being of all San Franciscoians of course we should approve the mou as written and not put it off for bogus concerns. Unlike last year, there is now trust between the office of da and Police Department thank god trusted, professionals can do their job. Support this mou now, thank you so much. President elias this is the end of Public Comment. Thank you, roll call. Clerk on motion to reject the mou for meet and confer, commissioner walker. No. Benedicto. Yes. Commissioner yanez. Yes. Commissioner byrne. No. Commissioner yee. No. Commissioner yee is no. Vice president. Yes. And president elias is yes. You have four yeses. Thank you. Next item. Line item number 9. I have a motion. Youre right, youre right. I apologize for interrupting, i appreciate it. You made a motion it was a twopart motion, i think the second part of your part motion is moot, let me finish with the respect to the meet and confer about the items that were discussed and report back within 45 days. Yes. Okay, so thats the motion that well take since the second part of your motion is moot, do you have a second on that motion . Okay. Second. Sergeant, do we need Public Comment again. Can we get Public Comment and then well take a roll call vote. For members of the public that would like to make a comment please press star3 now or approach the podium. Good evening, caller you have two minutes. Caller you have two minutes. Speaker hello, hi this is lilly hill im calling in support mou, i believe that thats best way forward to move to help solve with the Public Safety issues is that the District Attorneys office and the Police Department Work Together and collaborative and its clear here that we have a solution by votes and police chief scott and i have always been a big fan of both of them. Thats the best way for our city to move forward and get things done. Thank you very much. Good evening, caller you have two minutes. Hi there, David Erickson district 1, i want to voice my opinion that we should not move forward with the m oui, this is the first time that its been put bft commission. For the reasons i stated earlier, and the bias way policing is done in the black community, this is not ready to go forward. Thank you. Good evening, caller you have two minutes. White guy talk about bias in San Francisco, what are you doing you unelected bureaucrat. The Police Department approve it get out of the way and resign. Im a born and raised San Franciscoians ive had enough of you dumb progressive, resign and pass the mou, and get rid of all you losers to hate on the cops, get a life. You hate them until you need them. And president , that is the end of Public Comment. On commissioner byrnes motion commissioner walker. Yes. Commissioner walker. Yes. Benedicto. Yes. Commission he yanez. Yes. Commissioner yanez. Byrne. Yes. Commissioner e. Yes. Invite president yes. And president yes. You have 7 yeses. Great. At the point of order, madam president , mr. Prean da since we didnt vote on extending the mou, does that make my motion still valid about approving the mou . Because, we couldnt vote to extend the mou, so the part of my motion to a document the new mou to february 15 is distinct from the other other motion because we couldnt vote. The chief gave us assurances but the result is there is been no vote and i would like to make the record clear as to what this commission is doing tonight. And this and i believe my motion is distinct because it cant rule on the extension. Can we, can you tell us whether or not we can have a vote on this . Commissioner byrne, can you please clarify. So youre referring to the portion of your motion that was to provisional lea dopt the mou. Correct. At this point that motion was moot was the motion adopting it rejecting it. So if the mou has been rejected, the motion to adopt will have no legal affect. Thank you, mr. Miranda. Thank you madam president. Thank you. Next item. Line item 9, presentation of open and close cases for Second Quarter discussion. As required by commissioner 97. 4, quarter with the type of ied investigations. Outcome of the completing investigation includes the number of cases sustained and dismissed. Okay, good evening, everyone, commissioner president , Vice President. Commissioners, chief scott and chief of staff, im reading your sign. Okay, so im commander of the office and tonight im going to present to you open and close cases for the first and Second Quarter of 2022 by the internal division. Im going to cover january to june 2022. All right, sorry. It is, its 30 slides but most are one data point and this is going to go fast. The first slide is a month to month comparison and its l also a year to year. Its a monthly of open and close cases same time period this year and last year. This is just not indicating of our work flow and i work for out liars and theyre really isnt much to move on to speak further on this slide. Okay, lets get into the open cases for iad if the First Quarter of 2022. 59 cases open during that period of time. During the same time period we closed 2 cases, so 577 57 remained open and two closed. The second is the case type. So of those cases, 35 were from iad so directly from iad20 referred by dpa and the other, referred by, dpa after a sustained finding to be exact. And forward refer to iad there is a distinction between our sworn staff and professional staff. So there were four of those or for off duty misconduct. Okay, lets talk about allegation type fm of those 59 cases, there were 59 allegations of neglected duty. 26 of unbecoming officer, 9 administrative investigation and 9 of conduct unbecoming of professional staff. Next well talk about member classification or what distinction and professional staff. Of those complaints that we investigated, 49 were sworn staff, 10 from professional staff regarding professional staff. Im going to move into closed cases for the same quaert. And were going to discuss findings in those 46 cases that were 143 allegations closed by internal affairs division. 37 we the decision was proper conduct, 27 insufficient evidence and i will not read you the rest chart. Okay, what actions did we take. 88 the action was no further action. So for instance, those cases might be unfounded or proper conduct would be the category set under no further action. And kind of, talk about the ones that, has the highest. 16 resulted in reprimand and 7 results in suspension, and 9 of of the members retired during this time period, 8 of the members resigned. So of those 46 case thats we closed what was the source of those cases . Of those cases that we closed 36 were generated from the internal division. 10 from dpa that were referred to us after they obtained a sustained finding. Recommend classification under those 46 cases, 137 sworn, 13 professional staff, two reserve and one is unknown that means we were not able to identify who that member was. Okay and this is new, this is different from the other presentation but lets talk about the race of the members of those 46 cases closed by internal affairs division. 59 were white, 32 asian, 25 hispanic, 17 black and ten unknown so that that is demographic by race. The same break down by generaleder, 98 of those male, 41 female and 4 are unknown. Okay im going to go for the same presentation for the Second Quarter of 2022. Well start with open cases, 69 open cases, three were closed in the same quarter. How did we get those cases . 45 generated directly to internal affairs. 24 differed, after they obtained a sustained finding. Type of allegations, the highest number, the trend is neglected duty or neglect of duty, 54 for were for conduct unbecoming officer. And 11 conduct unbecoming of professional staff. Ill finish that slide, 7 for unnecessary force, 6 unwarranted action, 6 for administrative investigations. Member classification once again 187 of those allegations were for sworn members, 24 for professional staff and 3 unknown. Second quarter of 2022, lets talk about closed cases. So of those 51 cases or 182 allegations that were investigated by intern a affairs division. From those, we had 71 findings of unsufficient evidence, 15 proper conduct, 12 were in policy, 4 not in policy, 3 result in training failure two policy failures. Actions taken in the 51 cases, no further actions in 1 19. 13 resulted in suspension, 12 in admonishment, in terminated, those were the highest numbers for that quarter so source of the close cases, how did those arrange nature. 32 were from internal affairs nine from sustainability, im being very repeat tick, this presentation is repetitive. Member of the 51 cases 146 of the allegations were for sworn members for 36 professional staff. Okay the race of the members in the Second Quarter of the 51 cases in the 152 cases, were for white officers, 49 f them for asian, 34 for hispanic, 17 for black, 9 were unknown and one was american indian. Lets talk about the gender 145 against a male officer, 29 female officer, 8 unknown. Im going to pause there because the next two slides are for a different topic. Page 7 and for quarter one and quarter two have similar findings in internal with neglected duty being the highest category of complaints which is similar to what dp a has been rother. So im wondering what the department is doing to address that situation. It appears to be both coming from or the stats are consistent. Sure with our findings there is a discipline portion so that sends a message that this is not okay. That we take it seriously and discipline is significant. Generally patrol thats the most exposure, so we have conversations with the command staff and the captains to let them know about these trends. So talk about the trends themselves and take corrective actions meaning training sharing what the allegations are, counseling trying to figure out why officers why there is, what results in neglected duty to try to mitigate that. There is no one answer, its something that were trying to tackle. This was discussed in the quarterly review Board Meeting also. This these statistics are sent to our station captains to be addressed with the officers in, and more needs to be done. And this trend needs to stop. Yeah, i was going to ask because i know during the disciplinary review board, that the issue did come up and some of the solutions were, im not sure if dpa is continuing to do this but send ising dpa to educate officers on these topics as well is that still being done. That is being done. Thank you for bringing that up and that has begun. I think its diana and rosestein and internal affairs. This has been a topic there is been conversation individual conversations. The majority of these are issues out of Operation Bureau and deputy is sullivan so there is a definitely a command emphasis. And ill say this, we did the presentation on morale and i said this in a presentation, ill reiterate we had to tie in how sometimes morale can be a contributing factor to how people do their jobs. I know its important to this commission to this Police Department and extremely important to me to all wrap that end to this conversation as we figure outweighs to boost the morale of our officers. That we factor in its not a perfect science in trying to determine that. But there are some connections as we see that improve, ill see that well see an adverse relationship. I think those are great starts and i would implore you to come wup Additional Solutions to address these allegations. Like i said doegt the department and dpa have indicated that the problem as well as various articles that we read about sort of that, that community has been really upset about. Okay. Yeah as the chief we expect the officers to do their jobs. So well do everything we can to make that happen and give the them ability to do that. Thats service. Its important to know that if there are difficulties that you let us know that were priced and there is a policy decisions or policy that we can implement that would help officers to do that, i think its important for us to know. Absolutely thank you. Commissioner benedicto. I have a question about the data. It may be something im missing. Looking at the 2022 slide 23, 11 no further actions. Going back to the slide before that, it would seem to me that the no further actions would result from those where there was unsufficient evidence or proper conductor in policy. When i add the four categories together, i get 115, am i missing a category. Is it a case where there are other circumstances where no further action would be accounts for that difference. I would include failure that we would corrective action by looking at what new training was given. Usually its, weve identified something every case is different. There was a training failure, he should have been trained better. We talk about. That would show up in no further action as opposed to no retraining. No further action means no further disciplinary action. But we may require training. It may be revamping and creating new training. Thats all. Commissioner walker. Thank you. Thank you for this, i do have a question its a another question about the about neglect of duty. I think i asked this when dpa was presenting to us. What type of things are included in there. There is a lot of issues that the beat officers have to deal with around Mental Health and homeless, people who may be suffering from drug overdoses and what not. We have not gun given the authority. I think that the public is, theyve made it known to me, i think they probably made it known to everybody that theyre not, happy with how things are in our street. It would be helpful to know what is in there. Its one of the things that were working on and Community Groups helping out in the streets that it may be, training cross training with those groups, the ambassador groups that can be specials all of that. And i mean even, even ive heard people who own stores who are saying that the police are not staying overnight watching after a break in. That really is not the jurisdiction, is that included in the neglect of duty, those complaints . Neglect of duty is really encompasses a lo of things. If they document it and take the proper action. Sometimes they take, partial action and other times they just make the wrong decision and do not take action. And then, there is discipline portion too so its, its not just retraining, there is that also sends a message that we expect you to do your duty. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner yanez is up, can i ask a quick followup question. One of the questions i had if we already been providing training, perhaps there is new training or other types of training that may be more beneficial to the officers. Have we looped in the trainer . Captain harvey. Yes. Has he been consulted to provide a way a different type of training or something that maybe. Thats something that well do internally and a lot of, i keep referring to the drv but much of what, so thats actually a good example. So when we identify something through dpa and the commission, that could be a training issue. We automatically reach out to training tom harvey. Discuss what we explain exactly what is going o and develop the Training Plan to directly address and that has been done. Were still getting more. Add it to your department. Hes a huge asset to your department. Absolutely. Commissioner yanez. Sorry. Thank you. President elias, just two quick procedure questions. To kind of address or inquire about the morale and the retention challenges that the department has faced and obviously workforce, environment and how we support officers is important fm when people resign or retire is there an exit interview process that take place . Yes, that is done through Staff Services and its voluntary so we dont mandate it. Do you have any idea of how many of those, i think there were like, 12 that resigned as a result of maybe this of process, do they end up of other departments, i heard that often that our officers are being poached because were making the job too tough for them. Is that information tracked. I dont know the numbers and i have not looked at the data specifically so i cannot tell you exactly. Some of it does coincide with their Natural Service retirement also. But thats, i think what youre saying is an important question and ill inquire about what Staff Services knows. I know that they do keep that data and they do have biweekly meetings where they show that data with our assistant chiefs. Yes, if i can add. It is tracked commissioner yanez so we have that data and we, and the exit interview were able to, were able to obtain that information particularly if we get a request from another agencies about background or about, discipline and things like that. So were able to get that information through a number of sources. And thats one of the reasons i ask. We hear that they end up in other departments. But ultimately how do we use that feedback to inform our retention efforts . How do we improve our training efforts based on what were trained that end up saying ive had enough for whatever reason that they make, that determination for themselves. It would be helpful maybe in some of these reports to include maybe at the end of the year what is the outcome and the findings and pattern of what people are, leaving the department so we can hold on to them a little bit longer if theyre performing well. Thank you. To that point, i want patrol to know that. And it affects officers for the rest of their career. Whether they agree or disagree, they carry that with them. Even when the suspension is over whatever the discipline outcome is, its a big deal and we look at it like a big deal. And i would add that discipline is essential in bringing things to light. Also raise these things and improve performance overall in the long term right. So thank you for that. The goal is to get, you know, improvements in performance. Hey, thank you very much Vice President carter. My question would be regarding the annual policy rollouts and folks, many that shows up in Improper Conduct. Do you focus on targ get universe where some of the Improper Conducts that do come up, reinforce to the members. Yeah, i think through the drb especially when there are cases where Improper Conduct if we feel that there is something that we can do as a department as a city to improve the process for the officers, we will. So yeah, we, has with all the the allegations we take them seriously and part of the process is for a solution not just go out and discipline to the officers. So you have annual refresher . Regarding the policies that you guys have, right . Yeah, the drb is quarterly so we do that four times a year. Its on going, as we look at cases we have knows discussions on particular cases. Thank you very much, sir commander. Thank you. Commissioner yee, i would invite you to one of our drb meetings. Okay, you want to continue . Sure. But you dont get new ten minutes. Two slides. So this is regarding the the cases that are pending chiefs hearing and we want to talk about the reasons for the delays and i actually want to talk about some changes that have been implemented that should improve the process. The named officer, those schedules those five schedules have to be coordinated and she shared with me i think i shared in the past of the 5 generally one will ask for a continuance which caused rescheduling of five persons not just one. I have to say that its been a year since covid but i think covid caused quite a delay and backlog that were unwinding right now. Were on turbo mode to try to get these cases resolved while we have this opportunity. Lets talk about the revisions and modifications that weve implemented now. Im thankful for the chief because the chief made some of these suggestions from his experience working in risk management. Im going to ignore that. So instead of trying to coordinate were actually going to issue a date. We have to prioritize that meeting. Were going to ask that they formalize that and it will go through our office. Our plan is to only grant one extension. We have process scheduled nine hearings to be done within the next two months. We hope to schedule more. It says the process goes in affect november first but weve already implemented it. So i think that is going to be a vas improvement. The other thing were just prioritizing this in the office. So, on the next update you should see quite a bit more. Ill end there for questions. First of all i want to ask you for adding these two slides and i want to thank you for being transparent in this process, instead of shying away that there is 96 ending, i tackled and i appreciate that first and for most. Im very happy that there are new rules that are in place or suggestion to expedite this process. My question is, you said that the plan is now to grant one continuance is it going fob based on good cause. Thats why were going to ask the reason formerly. I think it may be helpful, ive been working with the City Attorney for disciplinary and i would hem recommend that you touch base with the City Attorney. It would be beneficial to streamline and sort of take some of the language that the commission is plans on using for the discipline cases. And current procedures that we have in place with an example is the granting the continuance the current rules say that the continuance would be based on that good cause and that way it would number the continuance. And we want to be consistent across the board even though these are two different areas with the commission hearing. I think procedure alley, some of the rules are the same because even though the chief hearing there is no commission, its in front of a chief but i think that the sort of evidentury rules in terms of how theyre conducted. Right chief . Thats correct. I would suggest chief to rev out to the City Attorney, they did a an amazing job in drafting these. That would be something that i would suggest no need to reinvent the rules and use rules that have been in place. Definitely look into that and im sure that well find nor efficiencies as we make this priority. I understand that now is the continuances the whether to grant a continuance go through you so youll be responsible. Yes, thats exactly what the direct process. So when director tells us that there is 120 backed up, were going to bring you to the mike. Well im hoping that does not happen. Anyone else, i dont see anything on the queue. Have a great even. Sergeant. More members of the public who would like to make a Public Comment on the item line 9, please approach the podium or press star3