Transcripts For SFGTV BOS Govt Audits And Oversight Committee 4716 20160408

When people get used to the fact it happens every second sunday well probably see more people coming in and paritous pating. Second sunday was rainy so the weather seems to always act up on second sundays which is the next one . This coming sunday, okay. I dont have further questions because i know the details the work and again, keep ulthe good work. Thank you. Thank you mr. Weaver, is there any of the presentation you think the public would benefit from that you would like to proceed with . Im good with this, the amount of money we were able to bring it had district and neighborhood in addition to the assessment money is a good focus point for how we are operating and contributing. I agree. Any members of the public who would like to testify on item 1 . Seeing none Public Comment is closed and if i can get a motion to exkoos supervisor breed for this item motion to for supervisor breed without objection that motion is approved and on the motion if there is no objection well forward to had full board with recommendation item 2 item 2 is resolution receiving and approving the annual report for the Fishermans Wharfmunity benefit district and Fishermans Wharf [inaudible] for fy 2014 15 thank you chair peskin and supervisor yee. We have the 2015, 16 annual report. It is the last cbd in district 3 for annual reports how many other cbds do we have . We only have district 6 left. We are getting there. So, as mentioned previously, the cbds are covered by the [inaudible] San Francisco business and tax regulation code. Eewd insures they meet the Management Plan and conduct annual report and financial review jz provide the board of supervisors with a summary memo. The fixermans wharf cbd is both pauperty based. The land side includes [inaudible] on the map the port side is purple and property base is green. The land side brings in approximately 622,000 in the first year of operation and port side brought in 187, 113 and set to expire june 30, 2020. They rin business for 10 years . Yes, sir. The executive director is Troy Campbell and will present on problematic achieved. There are Service Areas are district identify and streetscape improvement, Street Operations and buf fiication and administration and corporate operations. Eewd reviews bench mark one the variance between the budget is within 10 Percentage Points. Two, whether 5 percent the land side cames from sources other than assessment revenue. Whether the variance for the budget amount is within 10 Percentage Points the acwheel. 4, whether the cbd is indicating the Carry Forward amound. For bench mark one the cbd requirements. They met fl land side and port side requirement as well. Bench mark two the cbd met as they raised 5. 5 percent. The budget versing actual met as well land side and port side land side and port side. 4 was met for land anport side. The recommendation and findings is cdb is successful exceeding the requirements, implemented fy 13, 14 report recommends to insure the annual budget is alignment with the management plast plan, implemented all the recommendations from fy 13, 14 and cbd continues to perform well and provide events to the neighborhood to attract visitors. They market and produce events such as 4th of july, fleet week and holiday sites and increase [inaudible] any question for eewd . None from me. Supervisor yee . Come on up troy. Happy 10th an versey i know you dont have lot of time so ill do this as quickly as possible. Market is a big part for the cbd. We took over man jt of the [inaudible] pages which helped a lot and also started doing a coopadcampaign which is successful with the merchants ibin flight magazines. We printed plea thousand brochures distributed around california. We also updated our site that year and it helped our visitation. We set a record of may in operation of 40,000 visitors per month which is really huge for us. Brochures, visitation and our Facebook Page continues to be popular. We got Fishermans Wharf the place merged with the page we manage and took our likes from about 8 thousand to 32,000 so our viewership has grown. We reser rected our news letter that year and continues to operate at about 38 percent open rate which is really great to a news letter to what do you attribute the fact the top fans are 2 3 female. Usually women are the Decision Makers for trips so i think that may have something to do with it. Fascinating we finished a marketing plan the first time the cbd had a marketing plan and that was due to hiring a part Time Marketing person. We also put together sponsorship packet that year that was allowed peep to sponsor our annual event but be a district sponsor and provide extra dollars for the cbd by using the assets we bullet up, facebook and website, all thosedata is part the cbd and this year we were able to get 3 cameras installed and murpants association did a forth cama and this data here a litdal hard to read, represents the visitation at Fishermans Wharf and we learned we had a little drop in december, we stayed consistent throughout the year and learned president s day weekend is bigger than fleet week which was a shock to a lot of people. I want to talk now about successing and advocacy we were awarded the nen best Community Benefit district of the year. We also have success with sfpd and Deputy District Attorney in getting our emp fumischaracter elmo. We also announced that year we had advocateed for jefferson street the city was putting 1. 7 million aside to complete construction and design which is happening as we speak which will help phase 2 come to fruition. We also worked with a local company that put together a intranet site called town scare that allows merchants to communicate with each other about anything from marketing to Public Safety and we were able toget them to successfully put together a piece of that town square that allowed for urgent alerts that mean anyone in the district if they pass a counter fit bill they can put a alert on the system and it sends it out to the other merchants. It allows to communicate especially urgent things happening in the district. We strengthened our ambassador program. It is essential and crucial to the success och the cbd and district. That we had 10 thousand pounds of trash, squaen00 incident of grutooty and 1291 stickers. Under safety they had 3500 people over [inaudible] 1600 people they talked about pan handling and 1400 people about drinking in public. They gave 15 thousand directions and 12,000 contacts with munchants and provided hospitalality assistance. We did district branding exercise that year and one of the common questions is how to get to Fishermans Wharf so we did a branding campaign that went into the murchlants stores identifying them as Fishermans Wharf business. [inaudible] become a hub for homeless activity and illegal activ attempt. We continued with peer safe program. This is emergency preparedness. The wharf is a crucial link for evacuation so we continue would the pier safe program jz hosted two new trainings and maintain operation shelter for department of emergency management. We held under events we held our wharf fest which this is our 4th annual. We have a chowder competition and david chew was the supervisor then. That year we rotate Different Things that we do on the main stage and this year we work would a bunch of designers and they did a fashion show made of trash. All trash was turned into cutory. It celebrates we added coum posting beens and abatement and work would the district getting rid of compacters. We had the art walk. Lights and sites boat prr aid and hung light on the crab whael, sun day streets and held a job fair. We continued sponsorship with sponsoring 4th of july at 20,000 for forth of july and 30,000 for fleet week. That is all i got for you today thank you mr. Campbell. When we put this thing together over a decade ago i had no idea it would be this successful so congrat ylshzs to you and staff and members. Any questions supervisor yee . Any members who would like to testify on item 2 . Seeing none, Public Comment is closed and if we have a motion to exkoos supervisor breed for this item make that motion without objection that motion is approved and on resolution we will send to full board with recommendation without objection. That item is approved. Pl corgs thank you for catching up on these report going forward, this will be a lot smoother. Thank you. Supervisor yee members of the public im going to recess for a few minutes until supervisor breed shows up for this most important hearing thatee are hearing that is item 3, i apologize but if you bear with us and be patient well well reconvene the gument audit and Oversight Committee. Thank you for your patience. Madam clerk, could you please read item 3 hearing on operations and maintenance of the city Emergency Water supply system taking it over for the Fire Department in 2010 and receiving a update to dispose of spare parts deemed no longer useful or necessary and requesting the San Francisco Public Utility Commission to report supervisor yee i brought this matter before us today after reading a march 13 article in thef is chronicle with regard to the sale of sur plus materials that were purchased pursuant to a 1986 bond act or so i believe, for the cities auxiliary water supply system. Something im familiar with with if for no other reason than i hap toon live in front of a blue top hydrants. In my previous tinnier on the board of superrisers as someone interested in infrastructure and Public Safety actually got several tours of the awss system and to put historic persperfcktive, 110 years go when the great earthquake and fire that is extensively writ bnt and alur and fundament ilhistory in the city happened where there were hundreds of breaks in the wat system and many fires that destroyed the Northeast Corner of the city, the next year the city passed a bond act to build are redundant second water supply system that could use salt water and we sit at the tip of a peninsula and surrounding by water on 3 sides and that was the awss system. Most bit out by 1913 but there were a number of additional improvements to and expansions the system in the 30s and then in 1986 there was a bond issued to further improve the system and there have been a couple since then in 2010 and 2014. The awss system much gravity fed from preserve vore, primarily is in sth northeastern and wern parts the city are not as well served. There are maps and well get a presentation. It has for 104 years been under the San Francisco Fire Department. In the year 2010 a couple years after i left office there were a jurisdictional transfer of that asset from the Fire Department to the department of public works and i actually if i was aware of that i had for gotten it and had return today civilian life in those years, but the issue around the sale of these parts actually sparked a curiosity on my part and what had happened with 86 bond money, what improvements were made. I did research and found out about as written in the march 13 article about the using flexible hosing in the western side the city, 12 inch wide hoses and [inaudible] systems and it raised a range of questions for me. I come to this hearing without a bias, i actually would like to just start asking questions. This is a important piece of infrastructure for the city. For the committee and public to have a tunlt to hear about this and ask questions and hope this is a ongoing dialogue. At the oned thf day im interested whether or not the city should be surplusing this mountain of 6 thousand parts but that is just a jumping off point for a larger conversation about what going on with the system, the future of the system, how we maintain the system, what promises we are making to the voters on repated occasions getting on 30 years relative to what we tell them well do with these bond monies and what we are actually doing those this is a opportunity to ask answer those questions. Let me also ring a note of appreciation. I appreciate after we initiated the hearing the puc called off the auction of the parts that had not yet been sold so i appreciate that and letswith that i would like to ask mr. Dave brigs from San Francisco Public Utilities commission who is in charge of the system to come up and i believe you is a presentation on the awss system thatia would lake to make to this panel and then we have questions and i know mr. Ken lombardi assistant chief the Fire Department is also here. Good morning and thank you for the invitation. I did have a bit of a overview but think it will brief but will make it briefer now because of your thorough introduction i think i missed in the 110 years the intersuction isduction is good and the over view is appropriate. It gives a sense of what the state of the system is right now, which is Getting Better and leads to the context the surplus and the justification for it so it is good to review one more time. Mr. Brigs by way of background because i dont know you,ioare a engineer . I am. I am local Regional Water system manager so i oversee this and others. To begin with nice to see an overview of San Francisco and the multifasedt awss system. I will treat this very lightly but you can see a dense pipe network in the northeastern side of San Francisco with hydrants and those are fed by 3 reservoirs from San Francisco and also able to feed from salt water pumps. The western and south parts of the city tend to have greater usage of cisterns which are under grounds water tanks 10s of thousands of gallons. That is the oldest part the is istm in the newest parts are in the west and south. The system is 100 years old and in many streets it insuch the potable and domestic system and pipelines are next to each other. They were built to a higher seismic standard but several changes occurred. The first being the puc and rate payers spent 4. 8 billion dollars upgrading the water supply system that feeds water to San Francisco. 60 to 70 percent remember seismic upgrades. A billion of the dollars was spent in San Francisco itself on all the storage reservoirs for the domestic system in San Francisco as well as a few pipelines so that gives the city a greater fire reliability. It was extensively for domestic consumption and water user jz dripging water but the first 24 or 36 hours after a major earthquake it will be used for Fire Fighting. The other important history here in the last 10 years with the [inaudible] transfer in 2010, also we had a working agreement from day one we memorialized that in 2015 with the mou that outlines operation and maintenance, ecpectation in a emergency and what to do with sur plus assets once they are surplused. That is in the mou as well. The passage of the bonds provided 150 Million Dollars of Capital Investment in the system which we can use and that is that is 86, 2010 and 20s 14 combined no that is 2010 and 2014. We have been investing that money and upgrading the system for year jz to guide those expenditures we formed a group within it city departments and Planning Committee capital Planning Committee, the Fire Department of course, dpw and puc looked at the bond funding, the need and vulnerability and figuring out the most sensible way to invest the dollars. One of the first things we had to do is figure out a metric like how do you determine Fire Suppression capabilities . It isnt a matter how many hydrants are nearby, it is a matter of pressure and flow and seismic reliability and number of igngzs that could occur after a earthquake. It is dependent on the Building Materials the density of housing and winds and humidity. Those are factors that go into figuring out what the neighborhoods need and the gap. It was a technical achievement for the group to figure a way to measure this because spending this kind of money you want to be able to benchmark the improvement. Out of that study we have worked on for years we have seen the gaps and the vulnerability and areas that need to be improved and determined the best mix of assets to solve the money with the money we have mpt that leads to cereplus issue because there is not a exclusive dependents on the pipeline. We bring the potable system into play and leverage the visemic investment in the potable system that will be there to some degree, some will break and some will not, we put wine pipe in the street instead of two and those are innovative techniques we brought that are guiding the investment. If i can just ask you a few questions about that, i have a number of questions. In a large seismic event we are quite certain that there will be any number of fires , is there a model how many fires we think may break out . There are probably folks here who can get into the technical detail but luckily we dont have this every day so we have to model with analytic method and academics and assumptions the reason i and is to the extent we rely on portable water system from hetch hetchy, we invested for this city and 29 other mu nice palties to hayward but presumebly the number one thing well need during and after a major catastrophic event is Potable Water to drink so to the ecs tent there is any break in the system where wl it is irvington tunnel or so much supply coming out of Crystal Spring jz local reservoirs in the city, isnt it most prudent to try to use salt water for putting out fires through the awss sishm and preserving as much Potable Water for drinking because it will be some amount of time before the water source is is restored . I the way i look at it and tell the Fire Department is in the first 24 hours of a major event a consider any water in San Francisco their disposal. It is a life safety issue and property prenchivation so Drinking Water and flushing the toilets, those become secondary for the first 24 hours. With retail capacity we are counting on, we spent a lot of money on trabz Mission Capacity linking Water Supplies to San Francisco so we anticipate the Potable Water being replinshed after the Fire Fighters use it. What happens the day this occurs it will be a mix on all these things. Luckily the two are not connected so we wont get salt water into the potable system. That answer your question . Yes, none of us were around in 1907 or 30s but what was the plan in 1986 up until 2010 when there was the jurs dictional transfer from fire . I have seen maps and maybe this is further in the Powerpoint Presentation so may be jumping ahead awss going all the way out to the ocean. Yeah, so i will get to that, but maybe just touch on it quickly. I think the assumption back in 1986 when the purchase of the spare parts was made is there would be a broader expansion the pipe network and what we are finding today is that with the amount of money that we have we want to produce benefits quickly and immediately, there is a more intelligence way tocreate the Fire Suppression advancements in the vulnerable areas not with the pipe expansions. There are other tools. You are saying the flexible hose system is interim solution . I think it is a solution that is sustainable so may be permanent. Well get to that more. Keep going. Picking up nextagain, the story we want to tell is the system is improving and this graphic is one we use for many of the presentations to depict this. Prior to the reinvesment of the bond into the system in 2010 and subsequent to that, this is a characterization the cities Fire Suppression ability. The darker colors represent a greater Fire Suppression capability and whether that is the presence of a awss pipeline or salt water pump station or cistern it in the portfolio. Not surpriseing with the density of pipe squz prevalence of salt water pump stations, the dark blue is in the northeast part the city and lack of investment in 2010 you see the color there. This is the metric as a way to guide forward. This is what it looked like through 2010, if you will. After 150 million put into the stistm we think it will look like this. We have a few more years to spend the 2014 bond issuance and think it will improve more. Not all areas are dark some of this is developer contribution as well because fl are subdivisions in the southeets south east part of the city and Treasure Island and lake merced and some are cosponsored by twep developers. With recognition there is lack of dark blue there is work to do and dont know if that is 50 or 100 million we assumed . We made ashumpen about what the dollars would be for a future bond issuance in San Francisco, 2020 working with capital Planning Committee and through a variety of projects get everybody tupe a higher level. That is quite a contrast in shades or blue or white to blue. For 150 million all of that reliability occurs this is where we were in 2010 and taking a lot of things into consideration such as better maintenance the sea water tunnels clogged investment is 1 twnt Million Dollars. Woo go from this to this. So some of this you are saying is that the awss system was not maintained adequately for a period of time and that isnt a issue of bond funding, that is operating and maintenance . Correct. I will touch on that later but you are correct. There is a striking improvement here with just the bond issuances that are proving or under way now. What the stricks and brick jz pipes and cisterns thereat 150 Million Dollars buy uz, and the fixed assets, pump stations, reservoirs and pipe investigation, condition assessment, cistern construction on the west and south side. That and also what we plan to do with the 2014 bond money is purchase the flexible system which will be useful on the west side. Well get there. Alright. So, this is i think the last bit of context here for getting into the surplus compounants and this get into how the puc in conjugz the Fire Department takeed sth stewardship seriously. On a day to day basis this stuff may not seem as glor ysh as capical projected and improvements bullet there is a lot of maintenance and trying to understand the assets and look at the life span because replacing the pipeline is extraordinarily expensive. We cleaned out the salt water tunnels that lead to had pump systems that can charge the pipes if the reservoir or storej fails. We increased retail capacity so the potable system fills the Storage Systems in San Francisco and increased the refill capacity and connected to a seismic source. The leakage protection has nothing do with Fire Fighting but in 3 locations the aggregation of 3 locations we saved 700,000 gallons of water which is astonishing. Something i work on just about every day in conjuckz of w the Fire Department is ilfill in San Francisco which bridges in the side walk and streetscape design has implication for infrastructure t. Is important the assets under grown are protected and accessibility. There is new subdivision squz planning for awss fustillties that i personally work very closely with the Fire Department to make sure this is done. I already mentioned the seismic upgrades and potable system that is important element to bring to the table here. So, now is surplus issue. The parnts were purchased 1986. B in the yard now it occupies about a half acre, over 100 different types of items. Just many many different types of things, most are what we call pipe fittings. They are not pipe itself but the ways the pipes connect to each other. That is mostly what is in the yard. The thing to make sure we vess is not everything in the yard is sur plus, only a portion of it and the reason awe have gone through every item in the inventory and determined how many we need for Emergency Repair or day to day and how many we need to build the system out and expand to the plan, if there is anything beyond that every being very conservative in the first two categories that is the portion that is surplus of no use and it is a function of the plan changing. Just as significant is a different approach in seismic engineering. The old approach is make it stronger and fight the earthquake. The new way of thinking is to absorb it, absorb the energy, dampen the energy and be flexible and the example is city hall. It is structures and pipelines anything you want to sur vive a earthquake. That new thinking rernds many surplus because we wont put them in the ground with this new approach. The last item is a interest point, the material sat outside for 30 years when we hire a crarkter they insist we wave the waernty. Sometimes that isnt a big risk, sometimeatize is. It is a messy bit of finger pointing when pieces of the assets are under warranty and some are not. It isnt a big factor but a interesting one. Finally, a bit of economics, the portionthis isnt the entire inventory, this is about 30 percent of the engentory we deem has no future for the plan. Beyond repair and build out. These component needs to be moved because their present location is redeveloped by Sewer Master Plan projeblth. They are in the southeast part of the city and need to be moved. These parts are massive. You need a rigging crew and crane. These are not things introutin a box and move. It is very elaborate operation to lift these on a flat bed truck. I know based oexperience because where moved it once 2 or 3 years ago so i know how much this cost. The one time cost to relocate the portion i dont need is give or take 125,000. I need to find leased space, determine what lifespan you want but it is 10s of thousands of dollars to lease space a year and instead of doing that if i surplus it i can save the money and put that into the system in maintenance and r and r and make the system better. Im notwe know that the price of the sale isnt impressive. The depreciation happened and the fact we get scrap metal values is a function of it haveic now market. The reason no one will pay more than scrap metal is they know there is no market for it. We wont reap a lot of revenue from the proceeds it is the avoided cost that is more the issue. With that, ill take questions or let others speak or whatever you wish. Supervisor yee has questions. I just have a quick question. The map, the blue and white map shows there is reliability increases. What i wasnt clear about whether the reliability index that you used really talks about capacity. You can be more reliable but if the capacity is the same then that doesnt tell me much. The other part of it is if it does measure or dont measure it, what is the capacity currently versus before 1986 in terms of the amount of water available lets me answer your first question first. The metric did assume that. It assumed the reliability of those sources of water with a pressure and flow and also the volume and whether that was adequate is a function of the expectation of the number of fires that would occur, which is a function of many things. The short answer to your first question is yes, the amount of water in each neighborhood was built in not just the likelihood of it being there. The volumeeticly how much it improved over the decades, im probably not going it be able to give you a number now accept just showing pictorial here and againthis is a complicated assessment with a great deal of analytical work and we are boiling it down to some simple features, but this is essentially what it was before we sarted putting more money into the system and we had a relatively low reliability and availability of water. I would say that this is also probably representation of the puc making its own seismic investment in the potable system which benefit the west side. I can partially why i ask the question of capacity, if you werewe havent remeasured it enterms of capacity and relied on calculations made in 1907 and given the fact that in the city there has been a lot more buildings being put up and and high rises, maybe it doesnt make a difference but from a leymans point of view i see a building and seems we need more capacity i think what i gather is the city looks different than it did years ago for greater building density and heightthe short answer is we do all those calculations looking where the city is going particularly the new subdivision squz amount of water needed there. Yes is the answer to your question, we take that into account. Okay. Good. So, i know it is very hard to reconstruct what happens 30 years ago, but what was the plan that we as city had and that we set forth to the voters in 1986 . Do you know what it was . I may not be the most knowledgeable person in the room for that. I think it was probably dpw Fire Department im guessing. I can give you my best knowledge on that, but if there is a volunteer in well bring other folks and that knowledge may be in the room. Relative to the Program Going forward, which i understand is a whole different array of tools be it flexible hose cistern, maintenance improvements to the existing awss system how developed is that plan today . By developed do you mean finalized reviewed publicly . Every agrees on and says well do this here and put this cistern there and this is where the flexible hose needs to be put. For pthpast several years we worked on this with our group and been public review with brian storm and capical Planning Committee and finalized the plan last december and it memorializing what the best use of the bond money is going forward. How many miles of flexible hose do you envision . I dont know that off the top of my head. Mr. Myerson or others may know. I will say 4 units. Come on up. It sound we will go from 10 thousand to 5 thousand feet or a thousand feet david myer son project manager for Public Utilities. The current plan includes for the flexpable water supply system for easter 2014 we plan to purchase 6 units and each hose carries 6600 feet of hose and parts to go with it. So approximately 7 miles of hose . Yes. There are 2 the the locations is important. Swun mclaren park and the next is sunset rev vore and the final is lake merced so well make use of lake merced water that is available there. These plans are on the internet publicly available. I recommend the summary version if you care to read the brosure, they get technical but the summary brochures are more general consumption. W thereare 2 other location one is potrero and other is college [inaudible] if there is future on funding these are candidate projects so youi believe it is 2 more hose units for those location. The attention is address the under served fire response areas identified in the various planning studies we have done. These hoses 12 inches in diameter, how would they be deployed in a major catastrophe . We are planning to purchase pump units that contain diesel engines and have booster pumps if you will. What we do the current plan still in development at sunset rev vore we have two pump units and intend in each pump unit is capable receiving two 12 inch inputs so we take the pump units in the event the earthquake or fire, go to the hydrant which suthround corner literally to low side the res vore and the pump units can take the water from the the rev vore and conveyed through the hose units. The house units im told and defer to the Fire Department but they are preloaded in a truck and you pull off some element of it and as the truck drives i dont know if there are people following or self deploys it comes out of the back of the truck and drive, you put a valve. It glivs a lot of flexibility during the operation of the events. Imbri mr. Lombardi up to ask questions about that. You said that the plan is still in development . Correct. Has anyone else done a flexible hose system like this . There are differences but berkeley does own this type of equipment that we are considering. In fact, a group of us were over there a few weeks ago to understand how they maintain it and deploy it and so on. There are operational differences, things we plan to do differently here. Where we plan to cross a major road that is necessary to be open after a major event. Plan to construct fix pipe crossing so you bring the hose up and connect to the the hydrant and drive the hose to the other side, connect with a new hose and keep going so the traffic can continue while we push water under the street. That i believe isnt a feature they have at berkeley. Little bits of awss like infrastructure under major roads. It isnt a High Pressure system. A fixed hard pipe a 12 inch diamamateur hose, i know a car cant drive over that, can a fire truck . I will have to defer to the Fire Department for that. We are advocating the fixed crossings so they rin place when they are needed in the emergencythat is the plan. So, i did a Little Research on my own and looked at a report from earlier this year and looked at all of the blue lines that says flexible hose system on it and scale that out and it looked like twice as much mileage as we are talking about. Maybe somewhere in the magnitude of 15 or 16 miles primarily in the western and southwestern portions of the city. I guess maybe this is a question for chief lombardi but it seems deploying those much less putting ramps over those would make sense if we still had the third army oat the prusid yebut while you are fighting fires i dont know how you lay 15 or 16 miles of roads and putting ramps so people can get out of town or emergency vehicles can get to locations that are truicated or bifurcated by this infruc structure i dont think a fire truck can get over either without a ramp. That is separate relative to the depletion of Potable Water. I totally understand if we expand a system to the ocean it will cost hundreds of millions of dollars and that may or may not be an investment we want to make over time. Clearly when we did this between 1907 and 1913 and a a few starts after that that side of the sate wasnt bit out and unlike what mr. Brigs is spending time on, the subdivisions and ship yard we put that infrastructure in, the city leaders in the early partf the last century were not insisted as we subdivide richmond and sunset people install that type of infrastructure so have catching up to do. I think i have reasonable concerns that laying down somewhere around 15 miles of hose when we will need all of these folks fighting fires what do we have in town on a normal al shift . 280, 3 hundred Fire Fighters. The cisterns which i understand each hold about 75,000 gallons of walt water and that is good to have dispersed around the town but how many injures does it require to use the cistern is the question . Do you know the answer to that . Alright chief, come on up. Good morning, thank you for visor peskin and yee for holding the hearing. There are a lot of things mentioned today which i think is a huge and bigger discussion. I thought was only over the surplus part but when we talk about the water system for the whole city it is a big discussion and much bigger powerpoint than you have seen. Im not prepared to give a poweropponent on that. I can spick on it all day long so a couple quick answers for what you just mentioned was we looked a the maernsh routes. Dpw has a emergency route for the city. None of in12 inch hose will go over the emergency routes and that is when the undergrounds thing will happen if it was a emergency route. On the emergency route the city published you wont have to go over the hose. They make a ramp for it that a fire engine could go over. Is it realistic . Probably not t. Is a big ramp. They sell it and can put big rig jz semis over it and if we perch ths system we will puchs the ramps. The first is lay the hose out and put the fire out so the ramps are put in at a later time but they make a ramp for it. The disadvantage is we have a 5 inch system that we have ramps for it and is easier to cross 5 inch hose than 12 inch. Would the Fire Fighters be busy fighting fires, yes but we have volunteers trained in San Francisco so if the system was purchased we would like at training all the volunteers how to put the ramps out and work with the Fire Department so they are useful in a situation like this. Let me back up. I want to make it clear, the Fire Department isnt abandoning, the awss system, we think it is a funomsl system. There are people all over the world to kudy the system. In 1907, 08 when it was built it was a great idea and it is a great system. It is gravity fed. We are not getting away from that and since we have given the puc has taken over the awss i can stand here, it is in better shape now. The puc has done a wonderful job maintaining and bringing up to snuff. The problem is it isnt a full proof system. In 1989 which was our biggest quake since 086, the lower section broke. We had no pressure in the lower zeen. Whee to save the marina with the fire boat and pwss. It is a phenomenal system but nuth sg full proof with earthquakes. The other thing i want to comment on and in 86 i came in 89 to the Fire Department. There are probably gentlemen in the room that were here but i dont know what the decision body making was and they bought all these parts and had a plan. I have old maps where the awss should go and not say tg is a bad plan, i think it is great plan. They thought it was a great plan in 1986 but one thing i learnicide realty. We had the plan for 30 wreer jz parts for 30 years, plan isnt implemented. We can continue to have that great plan for another 30 years but brine stron director of capital plan is here. The amount of money to carry out our original plan for the city at this time isnt feasible so we get a certain amount of money from the bond dollars and we can stay with original plan other alter the plan so hit the re response areas to equally try to protect the city as a whole. As you know, when it was built in 1907 08, it protected what San Francisco was at that time and that is why there is the void for the rest the city. What the 12 inch hose does is it allows us to cover parts of the city that are not covered and im not going to sit and say it is bert than the awss because there are pros and cons to both. You can put awss and if there is a pipe break you may not have any water. The 12 inch hose after a earthquake it will be functional. The downside is lay it out and hook to a water source and pump the water. They are two separate system. What i think this does it allows us to take our current dollars and protect the rest of San Francisco after a earthquake. Relative to the question that i asked mr. Myerson which is using cisterns, how many engines does using a cistern require . One engine. One to pump and one to put out the fire the same engine could do both. Another thing we are looking at is trying to get portable pumps that drop into the cisterns that we wont have to tie up a fire engine to use a cistern. Alternative ways to get the water out presumebly in casing where the engine isnt close to the cistern you need two engines . There is many hypotheticals but if i have a cistern on the corner qu fire on the same block i can use one engine to put the fire out. Dependent where the fire is at we may have use booster engines along the way. The cisternyeah, we have to use boosters. That gets into another issue which is pounds for square inch in the awss system versus pounds per square inch in the Potable Water they are not the same system and not saying they are. The 12 inch system gives a opportunity to get water not through the Domestic Water supply pipe tooz areas that currently dont have awss and say we want awss throughout the whole city, that is great, we dont have enough money to do that and if the city want tooz make that a priority that is fine but that hasnt happened for thurlt year jz dont see it hap ing thun near future. Brian straum can probably speak to that better. They are different systems but it gives water without water pipes after a earthquake throughout the whole city. How long does this flexible hose last . How often do you have to replace it . I dont have that speck off hand. It lasts quite a long time but it would have to be replaced at some point. I can look at up for you. Mr. Myerson, do you know . 5 years, 10 years it is over 10. I believe it sin the 10 to 20 year range, i have to look that up we cant use bond money to buy that . Brian strom with capital Planning Committee, thank you for having this hearing. We can use geo bond money it buy the pump, the pumps are tied down, it isnt like inpwss so we can use for the pumps and i believe some of the pipes may be eligible but not 100 percent sure. I believe some of the pipes as a associated component of the system is eligible. It has gone through our city attorneys office. But none the hose dozen last the life the bond issue indeadtinous repayment. As long as it is over 10 years it doesnt have to lastmost geo bonds are 20 year geo bonds, but there isnt a direct correlation saying it has to exactly as long as the life of the bond. Okay. I want to welcome supervisor breed to the committee. Welcome supervisor. Mr. Brings the march 13 newspaper article you said the awss system is in good shape and chief lombardi said it is better shape than it fsh a number of years ago which is good news to hear. What do you base that on . What type of evaluation or reporting mechanisms do you guys have to know that . I would answer that questionthe Fire Department using the system so there is functionality from time to time to evaluate performance. The water is pressure is there. There are material improvements that i could elaborate on that is maintenance related and capital related. We know the rate of deprecation or degradation of the pipe line. That gives good news so the initial findings are good. It is a number of attributes that tell us it is better and continue to get better. Read the earths quake safety and Emergency Response bond Program Quarterly report issued at the begin ing of october 2015. I noticed that one of the status updates was pipeline investigation and remediation assess 135 mile awss Pipeline Network condition using field investigation, problemalistic analysis, recommend a long term pipeline repair replacement and abandonment capital plan with a planning completion date of 2017. The reason that popped out is that it didnt jive with your statement or the departments statement in the newspaper article there had been a thorough analysis of how much of the spare parts you guys needed to retain and not sell if you hadnt finished the analysis of the 135 miles of awss. I think how can they sell off these pipes, warrantys or lack there of our bras fire hydrides thatd are not faibicated. The blue lid, red lid and black lid, those are awss fire hydrants and nobody makes them anymore. I ask how can you come to the conclusion that you can sell these things off when your report of 5 months ago says you are not done analyzing what you need . With the pipeline assessment is pending. The we have done a little and it is encouraging. The life line is longer than traditional look up tables. These pipelines some can last 150 mpt the determination the surplus alreadyone of the big factors is design. Suppose the results we analyze involved a lot of field work and analysis, suppose it turnathize other direction and turns out the pipe is in really bad shape and we have to start replacing it, we wouldnt dwoo it the same way. We would use a different Engineering Design jz that is what we tack into account looking that yard and saying those are not part the future. Was that done throughis that part of ae coms recommendation and did they help analyze that or did you analyze that on your own . On our own. Clearly it is collaborative effort with Structural Engineering consultants, seismic experts, a lot of this is motivated by a lot of japanese designs. They have more experience with this and we are utilizing the flexible pipeline technology. I dont think it is something a . Gen ear thought of at the puc. There is a lot oflos Angeles Department and power is starting to use these concepts as well. Supervisor breed, do you have a question . Relative to the the awss system, what type of testing are you doing on that or does fire do that or do you do that . The end user is the Fire Department. By testing testing pressure and making sure there are no leaks mainly motivated by the drought we revamped and put energy into Leak Detection flushing the system, sedimentitation and check thg man folds that is done by the puc. How many people are inl the unit . We have dedicated staff that was with the Fire Department that came over with the asset transfer. I would say 10 to 12. And that is their full time job is maintain and repair the system . We have another water system which is 10 times the number of pipeline mileage and so there is a lot of cross pollination. We work is in one area we share the loud so it isnt like there is a wall in the Water Department we dont look allot. Fallying the repairs you make to the awss do you assess the presser and for what duration . For [inaudible] breaks are rare but more likely we have project that need to accommodate stral subway so there is a hydrostatic pressure test done and put new fittings in. One reason why we are more conservative on raising the pressure too high is there a lot of leded joints around the pipelines so if you really pressureize it in a high way you may encourage a leak somewhere else. Those testing protocolerize well established and we are comfortable knowing the dynamic and static pressure on the pipelines kwr comfortable we are adequately testing it. Thank you mr. Brigs. Chief can yee bow back to the 12 inch hoses . How many trucks will be needed to deploy the hosing and where would they be located . Would they be located at the top of a hose run . Are they sitting at dpws yard . Cesar chavezhow will this work . Right now nothing is purchased. The current plan would be to have these units stationary at the water source that they will be assigned to. With that being said, if something were to happen and a water source went away we can always go. You mentioned salt water, there is no reason the units cant be used on salt watt squr have a Endless Supply of water thmpt way they are setd up now is use fresh Water Systems because wie have so. Immediate water in the cities boundaries. Two of the units will be stationed at sunset rev vore. One unit is lake merced and currently two unit would be stationed at mclaren. Those would directly accommodate areas of the city right now that do not get awss water. Im not here to compare the system, they are different but they should be operational after a earthquake if the domestic supply goes down. There are others locations thinl grand master plan but those are the immediate ones. If we put out the immediate fires around the area there is no reason you cant start taking Drinking Water off the system and we wouldnt fight the hire with the 12 inch hose. This is a main transition line above grund and break to our current pwss units and add more to the system and break it done to a 3 inch hose we fight the fire with. Colleagues i have many more questions that we could ask but i know there is many patient members of 2 public and have speaker cards and it is my desire to continue to the call of thchair and to continue to ask these questions on line and off line. I think until and this is just a suggestion until the eser item number 9 from your september 30 report planning is complete i suggest maybe hang on to those parts until we see that so we can see that it all jives, but with that let me call the speaker cards and i know that many have more than 3 minutes worth of knowledge and things to share, but we got 10 more items on the agenda, so with that, taumps [inaudible] James Douglas, daniel casey, brian rubenstein, james [inaudible] and dan [inaudible] thank you for your patient squns if anyone hasnt put in a speaker card, please come up. Absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you for holding this hearing. Im a leyman, a citizen of the bay area a long time who studied the San Francisco earthquake 1906 and fire. I wrote the book as aaronicides and did the documents for pbs, the [inaudible] i was verywoken by the article i read in the paper and with all respect to the Public Utilities commission i have to agree with phrvisor peskin, until that survey is complete i dont think any the parts should be sold anywhere. They are only sur plus parts if the awss isnt expanded into the the unprotected areas. If they are no longer appropriate and we have 2350 go to a completely different design, i would like to know what that would cost. I understand we believe in a much more flexible system. I have studied this for 20 years so if we have to do that i like to know what that cost because that entailed replacing the entire system. That is the first issue in my opinion. I have a serious problem with the idea of using 12 inch hose. Im sitting here and probably wont speak is dr. Charless [inaudible] who is one of the twoman responsible for saving the city in 1989. He informed frank [inaudible] got the citizens of San Francisco to allocate 46 Million Dollars to build the system. It is based on portable hydrants which satthey were cast and never assembled. I think 100 of them. Are those portable hydrants completed . Ill write that down and ask. I would like to know if they have been done. That is a system that worked. It was actually tested and trained for the first time on october 11, 1989 and 6 days later that system which is the manageable system deployed by young men sitting at a bar helping the Fire Department save the marine adistrict and probably the city of San Francisco. We may not have this conversation. It is portable system and manageable system and as chief lombardi pointed out it can be run from portal systems about the size of this desk. I have seen the system tested. It canby hauled on the back of a truck, by human beings by hand if absolutely necessary. The idea of having to deploy 7 to 12 miles of 12 inch pipe and then hook up to the system underneath the streets to get it to work before you can begin to fight the fires, in 1906 there were 51 fires that boke utoin tone minutes and will have twice that many. Just the size of the city and housing stock. Asking our Fire Department to wait 2 or 3 hours to start fighting fires is a mistake. Kwrrks James Douglas your basic citizen. Before i do my prepared remarks i vooa comments to make from the Fire Department and the comment is the assumption on their part in designing their whole system that the hetch hetchy water system through San Francisco will sur vive a major earthquake is to me [inaudible] they should design on the subject it will fail and then design the system and caen believe these guys are doing that. To me it seems ludicrous. Most the people in the room will witness a disaster. The question you need to ask your self have we done everything we can to mateigate what will happen afterwards. A large part of the city may burn to the the grund. The most likely to burn is the areas not covered by the High Pressure system. A long line of city farthers put off the expansion the system, maintenance for decades. You have taken money from people like myself in the richmond and provide protection in other parts town and those parts are moke valuable than mine so wree paying to keep those peoples back sides covered. This is wrong. Every citizen in San Francisco should enjoy the same level of technology and protection. The rich and not so rich. You can dispensethe only infrastructure in the grund is the stuff i think we are going rely on. The amount of water that are going to break in the fresh water system it is high in the sky. They will have a choice, they have to save the water for later or use for fighting fires because there is a good chance they wont have both. People could be rescued if there is water to fight it. There will be a lot longer effects on this having to do with Public Health and safety issues in the weeks that happen after because of the cracked mains. All of california will be in bad shape or worse shape we wont get outside help for quite a period of time. We have 100,000 people and no fresh water or sanitation, i think they have to think about this about it in a better way. In the weeks afterthe earthquake i think Everybody Needs to have a equal protection of this, so that is my two cents. Former assistant chief [inaudible] welcome. Good morning supervisors. My name is thomas dude yea and 60 year resident of richmond. I served 32 years in the San Francisco Fire Department and retired at assistant deputy chief. I prepared informational binders for each of you which explain using public documents in a number of illustrations how the puc between 1210 and 14 bonds leaved the voter tooz believe the pipelines wood be extend thood most of the 15 neighborhoods where it never existed. This fsh a sensible plan was mirrored the master plan going back as far as the scakets. After the pass on the 2014 bound the expansion plans were abandoned. Now a bazaar patch approach is adopted using untested and unwielding large diameter hosing dropped from the back of a truck. Given the obsrbty of the plan i fiend it astounding it has gone for with the acwe essence with the Fire Department administration. For them to allow this to proceed indicate said a mass delusional episode or professional incomp tense on a flightening level. As my report makes clear this absurd scheme is not a adequate subtuse for expansion the awss and will lead to post urnth quakeifiers growing uchb checked while Fire Fighters [inaudible] they will never be deployed in time to allow for control of massive [inaudible] in short, the substushz of this plan in place the actual expansion the awss pipelines can be explained by a lack of understanding by the Fire Fighting requirements that have to bethet as well as the desire to find a quick fix regardless of what the outcome for the city and residence will be. If allowed to go forward it isnt a overstatement to say the current plan of 12 inch hose will result in destruction byifier of major portions the city and the otherwise avoidable deaths of hundreds if not thousands of people trapped and in collapses buildings. Police record in my report for further explanation of the evolution of this situation and detailed recommendation for corrective action by the board. Bear in mind the preservation of life and property is the responsibility of all public officials. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Next speaker please. Good morning supervisors. My name is dan casey and im a 25 year veteran the Fire Department and my role is representative of local [inaudible] president tom oconnor who couldnt be in attendsance today we rin rete of his letter as stated in the letter we strongly oppose the change of plan frz the funds originally approved by the easter bonds of 2010 and 14 intended for improvement and expansion of awss and ask the board to review the changes. I like to take the opportunity to speak on a personal level from a couple different perspective, one as a 25 year veteran of the Fire Department having been in involved with incidence where wree use thd awss to great effect, and also as professional fire fighter with questions about the alternative with the 12 inch hose system. I was involved in a open hills fire when we deployed the 5 inch system qu can tell you from personal experience it took a lot locker than a hour to get that out and that is people trained in use by chief blackburn. I dont know who will deploy the 12 inch system. I am also a naurb nob and have thousands of very vaumen tears but to expect common citizens getting a 18 hour course to be proficient in off loading these huge pieces of equipment i cant fathom that at all. Where my other perspective is as citizen rsh home owner, taxpayer and resident as a unserved neighborhood constituents of spl visor yee i voted in favor of the 2010 and 14 bonds and like toknow why the plan is being changed . It feels like a bait and switch and gives pause in further elections if i avote in aprovel of something and it wi8 be switched up gives me pause when i go to the polls again. Thank you. Mr. Rubenstein. Truly for the opportunityism president of San Francisco fire chief association. Thank you for vg this hearing and giving the opportunity to participate in what i feel a very important conversation. In recent days and a lot at the hearing i learned about a proposal rather than extend the awss purchase 12 inch hose system. I spoke with assist nlt chief the highest rajing Civil Service office and none are informed of this much less involved in vetting a change in our response capabilities. We share all wrour concerns. There are many unanswered question squz concerns regarding deployment of 12 inch hose in the after math of a major earthquake. What resources are available . Im also a nurt instructor, nurts responsibility is take care oof thems, loved ones and neighbored and help us. We need a water system that is available immediately. Was the hope that we kploy system at all in the after math . What is the hope we get a system in place quickly to meet the strategic and tactful needs and what impact would miles of hose have on the citizens and respondards . Whautd will hap toon the units conducting Fire Fighting uperations which it is disrupted [inaudible] low Visibility Conditions fighting to get outlet of or into a area. The extension of the awss voted and paid for by the community is superior to any deployable system. How can we explain in Hunters Point and other areas the under ground system is only available in higher value neighborhoods . It is our belief that the ongoing maintenance and extension of the system is necessary and preferable to a cumber son and vulnerable 12 inch system. Thank you, next speaker, please. My name is dan [inaudible] retired Police Office in San Francisco. I was the lead plan frr the cities y 2 k celebration. We remember the y 2 k because we were there. The world was going end and the atm cards would never work. We did have blt 300 to 500 thousand people to celebrate the new millennium. At that time San Francisco was in the process of switching over Radio Communication from had old system to the new 800 mega hurts system. It was planned to deploy those new Radio Systems prior to the y 2 k. Fortunately i was able toconvince the higher ups this cant wasnt a good idea because it was unproven and didnt know if it would sur vive the y 2 k plus the system with repeaters and many other things required to make the system function is were unproven and that proved to be correct because there were many bugs in the system. What i would suggest is if the city looks at a new system such as talking about the the deployable hose, what is the experience that berkeley has . Have they tested the system and proven to be successful . If not we need to reevaluate. The other point is with the 800 mega hertz system it is better to have something when you need it rather than want to have it when you do need it. I know you did request that the auction be held and put off until the body can make a decision but that is very crucial so i appreciate your time and appreciate what you are doing here today thank you, i appreciate it. Any other members who would like to speak . Seeing none well close Public Comment. Mr. Strom, could we visit with you for a little bit . As you know, i ampresident breed knows i am a big believer in rational Capital Planning and in making sure that this government has the confidence of the electorate as we continue to put forth general Obligation Bonds around many different issues that the city needs to address and i actually think that as we are on the 10th an zurssy of the creation of a i think very sophisticated capital plan and applaud sean elseburn for pushing that through and creating that unit of government you are now in charge of, some of this predates Capital Planning, but i want to kind of see if we can unravel a little history from 1986 when the first bond is issue to current day. One thing that used to profoundly disturb me and anybody else that was closely watching City Government was when the city made certain promises relative to bond issuance that didnt become true or didnt become totally true. Sometimes because we promise too much and there are cost overruns and cant build all the neighborhood libraries we need do another bond, sometimes because there were changes in plans and maybe some of those changes enplans were the right thing and realized the world changed and you no longer want a hard structure and want them flexible, butthat can be okay, if there is a good story behine it. I look at the 1986 bonds and it speak tooz specific snaugz installations and the installation of fire pumper section connections at the San Francisco bay and various lakes including the construction of a access road to the lake. Installation at lake merced and installation of High Pressure loop main in the sunset district and it goes on. Now, is that the loop that we built in the inner sunset or 1986 is the outer loop that wasnt built . I know we did work in the inner sunset y i cannot speak to what the 1986 bond because that was 10 years before we had our capital plan. I cant speak to what im not prepared to speak to. What happened with those bonds or how many improvements were made. When we picked it up we anyhow knew we had a system with a lot of needs and significant deficiencies and from the capital plan perspective wanted to take a global approach to t. We know there are other jurisdictions that had awss systemsthality abandoned them so part nof stuty is look at the system now and is it it a pornts system for the city to continue to invest in and maintain. So, i can speak from that period forward. I wouldnt be able to address lets do that forward from that period forward and you were on the capital Planning Committee at the time we funded a initial study, [inaudible] with a con to look at about 3 or 400 thousand dollar study. It was look to at the needs of the system,ordser of magnitude cost, what are the options around expansion or doing more pwsf. We work with chief tom deutyea at the time and [inaudible] who is the head of facilities then and that led us to inserting the awsf bond in make tg a part the Easter Program 2010 bond that is the first time we did a easter bond. The Fire Department went for 17 years without a geo bond. There were other emergency remons nidez and that is a challenge we have which is balancing the needs. We clearly said we will need to do these bond on a regular basis, it needs to be a program, not one off bonds and i believe before that like the 86 bond and some before that they were not very significant amounts of dollars and they were one off. Every 65 to 7 years well do another geo bond so did in one in 2014 and have aortin 2020. I think the commitment we make in the capital plan to voters because that is really important to us, we have been successful with geo bonds because we made the effort to invest money up front to understand what we will have and if we dont understand that we are very clear plaining explaining what we can and cannot do. With that bond we were clear that we were going fix what we called the time the core facilities. Those are the ones we thought we would have no matter what so that was twin peak, the pump station, ash berry tank. That was the focus and we put aside money to do some pipeline work and a lot of that is because we know we needed a hide rological study. There waept a commitment to expand awss. The initial report had over 400 million so we knee that wasnt something we would put in the bonds we know we wouldnt be able to live tupe that. We dont want to set that expectation. That is what we put in the report or what we put in the bond and said we were going to be revisiting this based on that comprehensive hide rulogical study which was what mr. Brigs and mr. Myerson reported on today what about the 55 million in the 2014 bond . That was to continue thp work that was started in 2010. It wasnt as much money as in 2010 and iti should say we awss is one component but the capital Planning Committee want today look at cisterns so both of those bonds put a lot of cisterns in the richmond and sunset district on the west side of town where we know there are deficiencies right away. A lot of the money went to constructing cisterns and improving the Current System and there was some money in there and mr. Myerson can explain on the pipe replacement but had to get the study done and core facilities done and get the silt out. Pump station 1 and 2. That is where the funds had gone. I think we are look thath next bond where we really would be get nothing to more of the pipe replacement and it was a big discussion in capital Planning Committee to be whether there are pipes we can abandon as well because based on what we know and based on not just the size the buildings but buildings are constructed differently so the type of fires we had are different than 5 oyears ago. That was part of ineffort to get a better understanding. It has come before the capital Planning Committee ochb a regular basis and also goes before a recorderbefore the citizen general Obligation Bond Oversight Committee whos objective is make sure they are spening the bond money in accordance with what the voters approved. They are evaluating that and that committee has the ability to prevent the city from issuing new bond so it has real teeth in it and they to my knowledge they have not had any concerns with how the funds are spent or the plan proposed. Supervisor yee interesting discussion. The way i conclude for temporarily until we have a better handle on the study with are doing, it seems that the awss system nobody is arguing is a bad system. In fact, there is possible argument it is a better system than the 12 inch portable and which is something that i was didnt think about until supervisor peskin mentioned how you get over the house that are 12 inches. I have a mioughta and cant get over a one inch hose. I think it is to me at this point i dont know where we are with the portable system, how much we spent on it, how much more doio need to spend on it. To me it seems more like a temporary fix if something were to happen now we would need to have that maybe because we dont have the other system up as well as we should. I think we should consider if it is a lot of money one thing we did in the School District we needed money to fix the school squz didnt try to fix it all at once so it seems longical to tell voters expand the system and this is where well expand it and use that sort of way of getting toagain, im not a expert but what where hear today it seems like the awss system if we have it throughout the San Francisco is better system, so unless somebody will tell me it isnt good system then i support that notion we should move to look at how expand that. Thank you supervisor yee. Mr. Straum, i realize it comes long before the capital Planning Committee formation and think it will be helpful to figure out what was actually done with the 46. 2 million in 1986 because it is a part of a narrative as to what the city intendedit is porn important in so far that that bond kunt plated expansion the awss and to the extent we are going through a new course of action which is to say we are not going to expand the awss but going to have a somewhat portable alternative system for redundancy. I think understanding that part of history and where thinks change and why they change and then the 5 inch system that worked in the fire that was important in the marina if that is the stop gap measure because we want these areas covered because that earthquake could come today or tomorrow or maybe continue to plan for something that doesnt come while any of us are around. Who knows when it will happen but it will happen. Im a little concerned just because we know of one city that is there city i was born and raised in that invested enthis i like to knemore about that. My understanding it is merely one corridor along University Avenue in the city of berkeley they intend to use the 12 inch flexible hose which is very different than winding it through vast sections of a city like San Francisco. Lets continue this public connoisseursation and happy to also continue it privately. I would just for the sake of mr. Del sawn droe would love for you mr. Brigs or myerson or chief lombardi to answer a question about the 1986 vintage portable hydrant and whether those were assembled or not. I dont know what they are but sure im geing tolearn more about this than i wanted to know. Mr. Myer son or mr. Brigs or chief lombardi . Thank you again. So, i dont know the exact number because i wasnt in in 1986. There were many things cast out of bras so the way it works is they cast them then once they are cast the internal working parts have to be put in by our machine part at central shops thmpt Fire Department one of thmain things when i took over my position from predecessors is increase the pwss stuff because we only had 3 in the sit a at the time and that is since the 1980s and nobody increased that since. Happy to say we now have 4 in the city and increased by 1 and have another 2 coming hopefully by the echbd othe year. Is that enough . No. To get to your question, there was a bunch of brass castings at central shops so they have been sitting there for years. Probably been there as lung as the pipes have been around. We went through them and had offthe top of my head i think we had 25 of them shipped out, manufacturered and so we do have 25 of those that are refurbished in use. I didnt see 100 of them but there is about 25 we did redothat had been sitting around for 30 years thank you mpt while i got you up here, you took over gary mas tawnys position . No, i took over assistant deputy chief fill stephens position which prior to that was [inaudible] sorry, i was gone for 10 years you were around for the 2010 jurisdictional transfer of awss . I was in the Fire Department, i wasnt in my current position. I believe that was deputy tomitute yea i dont want to put you on the spot but would like to know over time what the lovel staffing within the Fire Department was for awss and so i want to compare it over time to what it is today. My understanding is it was a robust function within it Fire Department in the early 90s was reduced in force and i thinki like to figure that out relative to staffing bauns maintenance is all about having people who can maintain the system so i want to understand you luvls of staffing were and the puc. Finally, the mou that mr. Brigs referenced that was finished last year, could i get a copy of that please . Absolutely. One last question. I have many more, but do you know if the repairs that are being performed on the awss use the type of equipment that are found among the surplus items . There are a couple things mentioned about the items and there are two things, if we use them to replacewhat is in the mou is the puc has to main in the tain the ist ism to the standard the Fire Department has or better. If Something Better comes alaurk in 30 years and they want to use that that is fine. A lot thf stuff is led joint and they dont do that anymore. They mun ust must maintain the minimum standard and if Something Better comes along than obviously better. Mr. Brigs any final comment for mr. Myerson . I center one more comment because i thought was regarding the parts. If you want a full on presentation about the new system i have no trouble doing that for who ever want tooz see that t. Is getting kicked at here and it is not quite that simple and it is a very elaborate system with a lot of detail so if we are going discuss that system we can easily do that we will gladly give you the opportunity t. Is the parts that led me to realize that awss had been transferred from fire to puc during my absence. We are going to continue this hearing to the call of thchair and ill asking you and mr. Brig jz mr. Kelly questions off line and again well convene another public hearing on this matter in the weeks ahead colleagues can we continue this item to the call of the chair . That will be our decision and with that, thank you all for coming and thank you all for your honest open presentations and with that i think we have to reconvene in closed session. Madam clerk if you can call the next items item 414 are various onss and resolutions oughterizing the settlement of lawsuits and unlitigated claim and toll agreement with city and county of San Francisco. Is there Public Comment on the items mr. Major just read . Seeing none, we will close Public Comment and we need to clear the room because we are going into closed session to deal with the litigation matters on