Transcripts For SFGTV BOS Budget And Finance Committee 20221103

Here i have the privilege of chairing the meeting and secretary morewitz will you take the roll . Hi. Call the roll commissioner green. Here. Commissioner chow. Present. Commissioner chung. Present. Commissioner guillermo. Front. Commissioner giraudo. Present. Dimiss anyone . Im sorry. Me. Right. Commissioner. All right. Thank you. I have a script to read. You need a mask. Do you have a mask . Welcome to the november first, San Francisco Health Commission meeting in hybrid in person and broadcast live on sfgovtv via web ex or listen by calling. The access code is on the good afternoon remind you present approximate attending in person today that all safety protocols adhered to. This includes wearing a mask. Covering mouth and nose any time you may speak. Adhere to the rules approval from the removal of the room. We appreciate your cooperation with the rules and requirements in the interest of everyones health and safety. Note that hand sanitize are stations at the upon entrance of the room. We welcome will participation during Public Comment. There will be an opportunity for general Public Comment in the begin and an opportunity to comment on each action item on the agenda. Each comment limited to 3 minutes. Public comment in person and through call in. The commission will take it first from here in person and then people attending remote. Those in person requested to submit a card to the Commission Secretary and remote on page 4 of the meeting agenda. City policies with state and local law present discriminatory against employees and others. Will not be tolerated. Comment on the jurisdiction of the Health Commission. Folks on the line those of you who wish to make Public Comment i urge to you raise your hand by pressing story 3 to make sure you get your hand up in time in case have you a delay on your end. Press star 3 the begin if you go intend to comment. Thank you for joining us be patients we learn and grow with our hybrid systems. I have the privilege of reading the land ocknowledgement. The Health Commission acknowledged we are on the unceded home land of the recommend ram the africanamerican inhabitants. As the indigenous stewards with translations the recommend ram never ceded, lost or forgotten their responsibilities as care takers as well as all people who reside in their traditional territory. As guests we rescue noise we benefit from live and working on their Traditional Home land we pay respects acknowledging then cest tors of the Ramaytush Ohlone community and affirming their rights as first people. November is american inldzian and alaska native heritage month. It is time to celebrate and acknowledge the rich culture, tradition and histories in addition to the important contributions of native people temperature is an opportunity to educate the general public about the challenges native people faced and the ways which the communities worked address these challenges. This year the Health Commission ash rude 2201 addressing health of local American Indian communities written with local American Indian lead and acknowledge the experience by the communities. Resolution directs the department of Public Health and the communities to identify recommendations to address this. And honor and privilege to acknowledge this month on the first day of november. So. The next item is the approval of the minutes of the meeting of october 18, 2022. Are there additions or corrections to the minutes . I like to add a note on the minutes under the closed session there was a member of the public had questioned the electric of Public Comment taken on your actions regarding disclosing or not. I wanted let you know i checked with the City Attorneys Office they confirmd that the practice of not take Public Comment on that portion of closed session is alined with law and practice of other commissions and noting that the closed session has several portions and will take comment at the beginning. It is one item. I want to close this loop for to you know i checked and the process we are currently enacting can appropriate. Thank you very much. Secretary morewitz. Are there corrections to the minutes . Okay. Is there a motion to approve. I move. Second. I will check to see if well is public upon comment. Folks on the line we are on item twot approval of the Minutes Press story 3 if you like to make comment on this item. Okay. No Public Comment i will do a vote. Commissioner guillermo. Yes. Commissioner chung. Yes. Commissioner green. Yes. Commissioner chow. Yes. Commissioner giraudo. Yes. Minutes are passed. Thank you. The next item is the directors report. Good afternoon. Commissioners director of health with the report i will summarize items and happy to answer questions from the commissioners. First item is San Francisco ended Public Health emergency to mpx on october 31st. The case slowed less then and there a case per day and 27,000 people are vaccinated. The Community Support for Critical Resources such as vaccines coupled with early action drove San Francisco to successful response and enabled to reach this mile stone. San francisco proactive about health and protect themselves and others. [inaudible] 3 months of the declaration it is important to that mpx is circumstantial lit nothing communities and is a concern. Work must continue. D ph will focus Public Health resource where is they can be effective and address health despashities in communities. Vigilent in responds to out breaks, monitoring trends and keeping the community inform when new issues arise. Health systems and clinics cites will offer vaccines, tests and other resources. Also encourages people to be proactive about screenings other infections can present similarly and require medical care. New tools to prevent disease should be considered when promote. A trial conducted by d ph at city clinic and ucsf and d ph the Health Program and the university of washington found this a single dose taken within 72 hours after sex reduce infections. It is the first prevention drug effective in to the rited reduce infections. Promise to decrease rates of syfilous in San Francisco the highest in the country. Syfilous is the sti the highest potential for severe disease the eyes and nervous system. New guidance to be used among men and trance women when had an sti in the past year and oral sexual contact with one male or transfemale partner. Anyone with a history of syfilous receive it. They will support and participate in research hapromotes the health of the communities we serve. You will seat links to information. I wantedd this is an example of Research Done within the department with Academic Centers ucsf and university of washington take the findings and with a positive result. W to implement the findings in the field as quickly as possible and scaling up operations to meet the needs of our community. Next is the china town Child Development center. We cell brits the 50th anniversary. A Health Clinic in china town. Center served needs of children throughout china town since 1972. D ph established it to serve children, youth and families providing Mental Health Services Accessible and culturally appropriate. Ccdc integrates a Behavioral Health model for all eligible focus asianamerican communities. Provides by a team of providers. Dc also works with Community Members throughout the parents to address the stigma and associated with accessing health service. Through educational learner train and robust language services, ccdc credits a supportive environment to over come these challenges. Next is code lavender launches. [inaudible] in the sfgh foundation. Code lavender a crisis tool Health Care Workers can now call when incidents impact staff wellness occur. When staff called a code lavender a Team Responding with a stress diffusing mech niche. Wellness and next steps. It is piloting expanded hours in the emergency department. Next is with regard to uniting for u Grain Program the Community Health and prosecute motion newcomers Health Program. San francisco Tb Prevention Program and the Sf Health Network are collaborate to welcome and support ukrainian in san pran when fled due to the war. Many are joining sponsors to say in the u. S. Temporarily under the program enentitles them to employment and medical conferage after leaving their home. Since the u noticed for Ukraine Program start in the april. The team supported ukrainians from ages 4 months to 86 years of age. They are a collective effort and shout out to the staff for welcome and patient centered care y. There are additional announcements Training Opportunity in the directors report and i will go on to the am covid update with if they could come up on the screen. Commissioners you see here that in terms of our cases per 100,000 in San Francisco this is the larger it graph on the slide. We continue to plateau in terms of cases very much reflecting the u. S. Trendses shown in the insert. Next slide. And in terms of hospitalizations our hospitalizations have been stable over the last few weeks. Were averaging between approximately 40 and 50 people in the hospital with covid. Once again these are people who may be hospitalized do you to covid. Or 19 hospitalized for other conditions and have covid on admission this includes oust countef transfer residents you see that our Health Care System in terms of firefighter acute care remains robust. In terms of vaccines you see on this slide we continue to have high rates of over all vaccineful coverage in the city 0 to 4 year olds are less vaccinated compared to other groups a third of the age received a dose in a fifth an initial series this is higher than the National Rate and the same time it lower than we would like to see in terms of adequately covering that group. And then we have an mpx slide this is look at cases per day and case reenforce the fact we are very low numbers over case per day and you see case over time have levels off. Next slide. And with less than one new mpx case per day, we have ended the Public Health emergency. Sf covid rates are stable and Hospital Capacity is adequate. Booster dose added to sfgov. Org dash board in the next week we will have updates on the. Biveilant roll out. We do believe that increasing this full and winter lead to increased covid cases and encourage people to be prepared. Using the steps in the bullets on the slide. And we are working with the state to coordinate for the end of the california state of emergency which the governor announced in official 23. And i believe this is my left slide. Happy to take questions. Thank you. Thank you for the report and the progress we see in so many areas. Is there any Public Comment . I will check. Item athlete directors report if you like to comment about anything in the report do so by pressing star 3 to raise your hand. I see no hands wrochl commissioner questions or comments . I see a hand . Yes. I got it working. So. Director colfact im please period you [inaudible] the [inaudible] Child Development center it is an excellent [inaudible] the forefront of continuing to bring Mental Health to our children but to all our population. I know that the area and [inaudible] or a significant amount of [inaudible] may not feel enough. I wonder as you are talking about them moving into the china town Public Health center. Glad to see we are work on that. Im wondering if there is enough room that were not shorting them [inaudible]. Thank you, commissioner chow. Just with regard to the question administered by the team at ccdc that the renovated center can, comidate the ccdc alcohol be located on the third floor of the c ph c. Okay. Thank you. And appreciate this report. [inaudible] china town and [inaudible] of the choina town Public Health center. Thank you. Any other commissioner questions or comments . Okay. Thank you. And seeing none the next item is general Public Comment if you like to comment about manage not on the agenda of anything that is not on the agenda. Press story 3 if you are interested in making general Public Comment. We will wit a few seconds. I see no hands. Commissioners. All right. Then upon the next is the fiscal year 202122 Fourth Quarter Financial Report. D ph chief Financial Officer. I will be sharing my screen. Good evenings. Throughout chair jenny Financial Officer for department of public healing im pleased report the Fourth Quarter Financial Report for the year this close in the june of 22. This is the spoil spoiler alert the Fourth Quarter financials the final balance after the routine beens we do at the Controllers Office there is significant variances of the close of the fiscal yeesh. The positive balance of projecting in this and all other quarter low reports required off set the fund deficit. I note we had above budget ref now from one time and temporary source. The Controllers Office made a one time adjustment of 18. 7 million to repay a prior with drawl. This is was of something that addresses with drawl from several years agos. And was directed by the Controllers Office and City Attorney top do. Operating funds does not include any of the covid19 expensep spngs project. It is reported separately. Controllers office does make a 9. 8 Million Dollars transfer to address the short fall in q3 this is similar to what the Controllers Office done for part of of all city departments and Covid Response. Genetics big picture bottom line when we see over all is we will ends the year with 129 Million Dollars surplus in ref now and detail out what is driving some of this increase. It it is unusual amount off set in addition we have 13 penalty 4 million of savings and those 2 combined result in 142 million over ending fund billions of commissioners know we have a management reserve. We made 9. 2 million a deposit in previous quarter and it is update to the 2224 budget we increase the cap on the reserve and allows you to make 10. 6 million. Department expects ending balance positive of 122 million. I will note i had questions about 13 penalty 4 million savings. It it is a large amount of money. I will note that percentage wise when you electric at offering budget of 2 billion, 245 million. It reports. 6 . Of our operating budget over all. In terms of upon variance from a percentage wise, it is in the as significant but we recognize there is 13 penalty 4 million unupon spent dollars in our budget. Commissioners sought slide in the Third Quarter the numbers again is our estimate as we look at some of the formula changes that happened overnight last year. Not to support public healing system. Estimate about 94 million of the 1 twine million is related to the policy changes. Should take the numbers grain of salt a lot are formula rate changes. Layered upon volume change this is is an analysis i had the team do to give a sense of what is the main one time drivers of the revenue. Sorry. The new item that we did not see in the prior year was 4. 9 million, funsd by the federal government part of the american recovery act. And used to support Public Hospital systems in the efforts to address the covid19 pandemic. Commissioners remember prior we received 23 million over all from multiple phases of the revenue starting in 2020. And we released received a final dispursement of 4. 9 million in the current year. We expect that this will be the left disbursement of relief funds from the government. In addition to the net increase approximate following the submission of the prf claims reports for the 21 ref now prior fiscal year close the trf revenues were realign in the our budget to match claiming suck mission. Revenues work the city received the dollars in advance of submission of i claim. We made our best guess where to budget them and rescue noise them. But once we got the final reporting determined how we best to claim to maximize ref nows for the city. We adjusted ref nows to really identify where they were you will see positive and negative dont worry they are not losses and revenues. It is the alignment of dollars. Remaining changes the 3. 27 million for the extension of the s map. Which is matching percentage under the Public Health emergency 8 opinion for behavioral, 3. For you for laguna honda. We have one time thresh hold payment under groebl Payment Program of 38. 5 million. One time state grant for Public Health care. And 9 penalty 4 million of one time Behavioral Health settlements. Diving in the details San Francisco general this is where we see the significant revenue and our largest division. Net patient ref nows 70 penalty 9 million the matching s map. Medical 8. 6 the net of the 38 opinion 5 the payment plan increase. We also of the 29. 2 million prior year settle am the net impact is 8. 6 million. Quality and Center Program is expected to perform better boy 4. 9 million and the Educational Program continues with 9 million. Tation ref nows of 4. 3 million and Quality Insurance was 7. 4 million. Minor negative variances of 600,000 on salaries. 900 jobs and nonpersonnel and approximate 1. 2 on supplies as a result of covid19. Laguna honda hospital received 10 million in sniff rates includes some of the formula changes in our rates. But it is off set boy 6. 1 million of cost we rely on other divisions to reflect the cost report. Expenditure side 1. 4 million savings and minor savings and materials and splice. Fringe benefit savings a result of one time upon delay in hiring that we dont expect to continue the last 45 months we have been doing a push for hiring at laguna honda and primarily facility staff. I dont expect this level of savings to continue. Am i know the commissioners had question the contracts for consultanters coming oust budget and, yes. Thank you j. So the contractless we are have set up additional to support the recertification efforts. We were notified of the decertification of laguna honda mid may, we did set up a contract part of the be ending of the fiscal year we had 6 weeks in the year and did in the have the contracts start right, way. There are minor expented tours reflected for year ends 21twoochl i xmentd export bulk to hit on july one and beyond. I expect welsee those impacts in the Financial Statement and not in the prior year. Behavioral health projecting 29. 4 million in additional revenues. Patient revenues related toy medical billing driven by match and percentage. Minor increase in medicare revenues 4. 1 million the prior patient revenues. Alignment of 16 penalty 5 Behavioral Health [inaudible] 4 huh that you knowed and [inaudible] am Substance Use of 200,000 off set by losses state revenue of 700,000 of delayed claims with the School District and a million related Substance Use. On the expenditure side the salaries are variance of 300,000 and nonpersonal, this is reading 4. 5 and not 3. 2. This is related to one time prior year close outs of purchase orders that were held part of past report settlements we are expecting to close with the accel ritted settlements we saw we can close out the peers we are holding in the caves additional costs we may need to incur to finalize the settlements. The drivers on our nonpersonnel side. It is manage we have seen in prior years special condition to look for and work with Behavioral Health to project their contracts. In primary care, there is we project a short fall 4. 3 million. There is a prior Year Adjustment related to the adjust item as well as a 5. 5 million. The other patient revenues 400,000. A positive and negative on medical and medicare this. Is our ability to perfect low predict how pier sources off set each other minor short fall and a positive increase recognized of 800,000 for provider funds. And 15 some salary savings related to one time hiring delays. Of 900,000 will small savings in personnel and materials and supplies and equipment work orders. With jail health, and health at home 1. 1 million of improved patient ref now in addition to minor [inaudible] approximate for the Health Network, commissioners seen the adjustments the last 3 quarter and we adjust whered the current year budget. We will be seeing many of these observe but there is short false of 21. 3 million in revenue related 700,000 short falls in the medical activities billing. As a result of staff this are being code toward Covid Response and in the drawing down in the 2 sources. The health plan settlement of minor short fall 200,000 and recognition of short falls and healthy San Francisco emmrooi ployer fees and 400,000 related fees and licenses. The other revenue where we assume 6 million city option funds vs not recognized them in the past several years that remains a short fall. We did receive will positive revenue of 900,000 for california Child Support services. 1. 1 million for provider relief funds. Thats a double count the total should be accurate. For of the expenditure side, fringe savings 700,000 on nonpersonal savings 2. 2 primarily on contracts and the small amountol interdidntal work orders. And i mentioned earlier. The Health Network services receive the one time budget adjustment 18. 5 million to repay the prior year with drawls and neutral you dont seat variance but something i wanted to provide. On the Population Health side 4. 3 million short fall related to 700,000 in medical and billing 1. 7 patient revenues. I think it is primary low a make reduced activity of the some of at our travel clinics as well as we are looking at epic billing issues moving forward. That we hope to resolve. EnvironMental Health fees. Of 2. 8 million. The rust reduced activity as well as some adjustments where we are delaying recognition of some payments to support Small Businesses. Coordinated with the larger city. Other revenues a baptist provide are fund adjustments as well as 300,000 for agricultural prevention for weights and measures program run oust the environMental Health that supports the weights and scales you see. Expenditure side minor variances 300,000 and 7 00,000 in nonpersonnel service. Public healing add striegz straigz. Recognize mel medical activity there is do you to some reduced time study billing related covid. A short fall of 1. 8 million. And short fall or this should be a surplus in vital records of 200,000 and then recognize 8. 4 million of provider relief funds. For expenditures. Upon 700,000 savings infringe and 2 million of nonpersonal Services Related delay and issuance of debt delayed and pushed out the debt payment to a future year. Minor savings and billing from interdepartmental work orders. The Covid Response side, the projections remained primarily the same as you see here. Terms of the revised budget the Controllers Office did adjust can revise to be 170 million to match projections actual is 10899. This is a continuing fund, we are we are noting that the other pending charges ruled over in the following year about 40 million. We expect will be charged for services this were rendered in the prior year. We are expecting those acountries to hit post june 30 time frame because of the nature of how the Controllers Office treats funds tell be rolled over and expect that to be for prior year services. We have a 5. 7 Million Dollars inventory adjustment and will this was tricky for mow to show i gave it its own column here. It reflects the requirements for treatment of prior year purchases. Result of rescue noising the have you of an asset and used and deducted from the Balance Sheets in the year it is ewe likewised. So, when we factor in adjustments the projected spending part of the covid project leaving 15 opinion 7 million. Part of our budget process this february and may, we assumed that we would have savings in Covid Community line item to continue our contracts throughout end of the calendar year. We were expecting the 13 Million Dollars surplus to continue and will be applied services this year. There is an available balance of 2. 8 million. When the project is commreechlt in terms of highlights of the variances in addition to the adjustment. Hotel savings and funding throughout d. Homelessness and Supportive Housing and room key program. We were able to charge cover the cost of hsh and not apply to the covid budget of short fall in Quarantine Hotels due to expansion of rooms and the contracts i mentioned, testing which over budget is we were aware of duce to demand during omicron surj and vaccines reducing the need for services on our end. So finally with the Revenue Management reserve, want to update you as of the Second Quarter had made the deposits for our manager reserve, which is capped at 5 of the 2 year budget of budgeted revenues. With the adjustment and adoption of the new 2 year budget increased revenues, therefore making an additional deposit of bring the total reserve 123 million and full emfunds the reserve we have to buffer against fluctuations in revenues moving forward. I think those are all my presentation i know there were other questions outside of the Financial Statements. And i want to make sure that i get to them. So there is a question about how medicaid redetermination will impact capitation ref nows and the states changes to capitation as well as the impact to healthy San Francisco. This is a hard one. To predict the impact. First the redetermination of medical benefits again for commissioners background. The state paused disenroll am in the medical program. Basically if youor medical you stayed on and you were not disenrolled. With the states announcement tell end the Public Health emergency in february that program will sxenldz they will begin this redetermination press to determine when is eligible and not for medical. We expect this to be phased in. And so we are not sure if there will be an Immediate Impact in the current year it is one we will watch and dependses on the reasons for people disenrolled because am income eligibility. Received employment to qualify for employer coverage ownership geographic, where they moved out of county or the state and not eligible. And so it is hard to tell, like low result in a reduction in our enrollment. But this will is off set by expansion of medical benefits that started in may of this year with the 50 plus group that will now be eligible for benefits regardless of documentation status. And this will expand to the full Adult Population this following may. We expect this would be anup tick in capitation enroll am and reduction in healthy San Francisco. Tell is too early to tell but this is a question that we will looking at part of our budget. And will be try to understand the impactless the next months. And then upon last i had a question about in prior years would we or in the future years in 2324 would we expected to being on target to meet general fund targets . We have balanced the prior year the mayors helped us will issue a budget instructions in december this year. So i think we will get updates on whether what the general fund targets electric like temperature is too early to tell the impacts. And then lastly, commissioner chow note thered were 2 lines the end of each Financial Statements around Carry Forward in and outs. We automated our reporting we used to update the financials manualy. We now have ann credible way to pull the dad in through the spreadsheet this is Additional Data that shouldup sxhoeld should not have included. Ignore these lines and we correct it moving forward. With that im happy to answer questions the commissioners may have. Thank you so much. You have incredible ability to take this amazeingly complex information and not only distill it and understand the memo of each memo is stellar. I dont think we would be able to understand much of this were not for the way you are able to simplify and explain it in clear terms. There are Public Comments . Person on the line on item 5. Fourth quarter low report of the Financial Report if you like to comment press star 3 now to raise your hand. No hands. Are there commissioner questions or comments. Commissioner chow . Thank you for your again always clear report another line item the continuing fund says what do you mean by those . In lines 39 and 40 . Sure what we do on the Financial Statements report on operating fund basically anything on surplus or deficits balanced went current year. The controller treats the continuing fund system unspent funds rolled over in the following year. Fundses that include this are usually often capitol projects they span years and get one slug of money to fully fund the program and than i are allowed roll over dollars as the project is implemented over multiple years. Another example is our covid19 project put in a continuing fund enabling us to roll over dollars. In the part of the data approximately we are showing the balance in our continuing funds. And so such as the capitol and covid19 projects the funds balance themselves because the Controllers Office go in and the match the budget to the actuals they reduce unextend budget. And then roll it over and so for million upon statements to match, the system, the basically the system balances out the continuing projectless. Rolls it over they look balanced the budget and annuals match and show it as matching. There is no variance to be reported the balances dont get released and recognized as part of the citys beens but carried forward part to continue the support project. Okay. More detail. So, if we had a 10 million calf project in this year we only spent 6 Million Dollars of it. And expected to roll it forward when you will see is a continuing project of what were you see in the financials 10 Million Dollars budgeted to begin with. But year end the Controllers Office will balance and show 6 million of budget and 6 million of expenditures to match and take those dollars the 4 million is not available balance but roll it over in the following year. To be available to complete the project. In the subsequent years as planned to which gift Spending Authority for this 4 Million Dollars we need to reduce and balance it out. In the continuing unlsd if year end they will always balance to recognize the constant roll over and adjustment of the appropriation over the course of the years. Okay. Im sure you understand that. Thank you. All right. Any other commissioner comments or questions . Thank you, again. For this comprehensive report. And we will look forward to surpluses and good news hopeful low in the future. Thank you, commissioners. Our next is fiscal 202223 approval for administration of laguna honda gift fund. This will be [inaudible] chief Financial Officer of laguna honda. Hi. Commissioners. Lilly laguna honda chief Financial Officer. Good to be here. I will present the gift fund laguna honda resident gift fund budget for review and approval. So i am start by reviewing the prior year similar format but you will notice i have received questions from you we have the gift Fund Committee has done an alignment with the budget based on spends in prior years. There are changes this year versus the prior year where it was the same. I will start by going through line by line of the prior year to explain what changed and why. So, just a high level of the budget for last [inaudible] [bad audio] [very fuzzy audio] i will start from the top. I got a question about this one. Low last year and typically the activity line item for [inaudible]. So we have not done those the past few years. This is low. The gift fund optimistic we hope may be to bring in some of this this year. We can put funding there but lower than the prior year. Why art with Elders Program this resumed and going strong that it is year over year and the next one is focus community and a few other of the small are budget line items ones part of the 3 alignment not that we are not allocating funds but we are rolling them up in the more general funds line item like miscellaneous when you funds them it it is a larger event or cultural event or resident wide event. Make its difficult when you have small line items to fund them. [fuzzy audio]. This is Older Program [inaudible] several years ago that no longer used. Again not to say we are not funding Behavioral Health but we are not doing it with a specific program. Covid related support, this is did not have spending left year but we left it in the budget. We charged the support for another program supposed to launch last year but had delays in the program and hope to launch it this year. 2 page card program that would give cards to residents [inaudible]. Hope than i get that going this year. Gift card pol the communities per of this programful ends of year hospital wide programs. We reroll third degree in the [inaudible] that was a duplicate reduced the wish list. This will successful and we increased those to do one round of wish lists per year but now doing multiple rounds increase the budget for this one and the hell day gift program i had a question about this one that was why would this increase if there is reduced residentses and there are 2 reasons. One stuff costs more than it d. We are seeing price increases on things and the types of things we would befor the Holiday Program and also such a Successful Program wore improving the catalog of items we are purchasing as far as the program. We increased that one this year. Hospital wide special events the same latin voices choir we are not using that. We removed it. Medical clowning and memory care the same. And miscellane us for patient benefits there is know increase to off set the reductions i talked about earlier. And Palliative Care and positive care we are consolidating. Rehab slight increase and one cool thing about rehab line is we have been seeing some spending on some molly fund a donation we received and for assisted technology. A lot of the requests come through rehab and an interesting program. So glad to see spending there. And special toed and beverages a slight increase for that one to off set the other dksz. A lot of information hopefully that answered some or most of your questions. And then the next page is just cleaned up budget for the concern fitsical year of 23. And the budget is similar to left year and you know we hope to as we come out of covid increase the programming and bring that spending back up from last year. But im happy to answer questions you that may have. About the budget or left years spends. Thank you for clarify andancing our questions. Is there Public Comment on this item . Person on the line if you like to comment on item 6 laguna honda gift fund. Press story 3 now. Story 3. No hands issue commissioners. Why are there any commissioner comments or questions on this item . Commissioner chung . It is just a very small question. I think this is the first time i noticed it. So many years like read thanksgiving. What is medical clowning project . So wham it sounding like. There are clowns who come and provide upon entertainment and walk around and chat with residentses and i see them in the cafeteria sometimes and it is a cool program. Therapy and coordinates that and has units a few times a month. Thank you. Interesting. Yea. I dont see other hands. Director colfax . You had comments thank you, Vice President green and i wanted thank the gift funds for you w this has been done there and laguna honda goes through a challenging period and we move forward toward recertification just to emphasize that these programs are really help with the spirit and demonstrate how the culture of laguna honda is parent centered and focusd and creativity this supported through the fund. Wanted to acknowledge that and thank the laguna honda team for the great programs. Why thank you. Thank you. I realized we have to have a motion to approve the request. So is there a motion to approve the 2223 gift fund . Motion to approve. Second. Roll call commissioner giraudo. Aye. Commissioner chung. Yes. Commissioner guillermo. Yes. Commissioner chow. Yes. Commissioner green. Yes. The item passes. Thank you y. Thanks. Thank you. Next item the off with city and county of San Francisco land lord and San Francisco General Hospital foundation tenant lose of the 25th street [inaudible] San Francisco, california. [inaudible] [. Good evening, commissioners. Director colfax and staff. Im mark prim at capitol oversight advisor and with me in person is jeff from the department of real estate. We worked on the most complex city lease in the history which is the ucsf Research Academic building. Took 6 years . Hes got a well rounded knowledge. Joining us virtual secfo gary chow. Ceo kim meridith. Our ceo susan erlike and jason zuk the project manager at zukerberg. I know there were questions so i think between jeff and i we will address those inside the presentation. The background on how we discovered the loses that were upon on campus were so out dated or did not exist with the Research Building. So at that time, director garcia asked us to look at everything on campus. And so thats what we were able to do. And one of the loses was the foundations lease. Which really updated quickly in 2018. With a year lease just to get it going. And then jeff and his team worked on the longterm lease which extends a 20 Year Base Year with 2 options of 10 years to extend. And [inaudible] 13 to 15 leases on campus. So, when director grsia asked us to electric we locked at everything. The first step you do which it is looking at an updated current market condition is jeffs department does an appraisal. So in some case some of the ucsf lease paying 9 dollars a square foot. Because the lease was 2025 years old. Thats step one is to get a barometer when your valuing the property. Second step is other credits that the leasee made to the space. Or is there other credits as in ucsf built a roadway between building five in the Research Building worth 3 billion dollars. Am the other christmased they us was of the deposit of 10 Million Dollars for transit common lawed management. Jeff and his team applied the credits against the values of property and foundation zeros it out. Because of the robust aim of fund raise hag kim will get into. So the lease space is about a doubling. 2,000 square feet to under 5,000 that is 2789, 25th street and improvements that the foundation made as well as the city made to make that safe expanded, the h vac, change out windows and other improvements. I think that i will turn it over to josh. Good evening. Im jeff im with the city and county of San Francisco real estate division. And america said, i worked with him with the deputy of Public Health on many of their lease this is is one on going. This is for the sudden front General Hospital foundation. Second floor of the chn build nothing 2789, 25th street. And approximately just under 5,000 square feet. Mark said, this is what in the city does a number of these there is in charge lease because the benefit received by the department in the sthae out weighs the cost and value of the lease in there it is a mes metrics we look at. Now in the lease we included in the packet to you all, there were a couple of error. I apologize we had one question around the base rent and we have language in there as if there is base rent and there is a sentence this says there is in charge for the rent of this it is in there for the City Attorney. And that is the conscience within the agreement with the foundation that if there their mou were to be changed dramatically, there being be a change in the rent. And so we leave this in there so that we dont have to would not go back and make the changes in the future. We had a linkage error that are has to do with related to the same thing. These are unlike low to ever occur but they are in there just so we have the everyoneses to there. You know to what happened to the event if the rent is unpaid. Given the rent is zero. It does common sense thing that make its electric like it should not be in there. I believe tr was a request to the exhibits b87 form this. Is something we fill out the end in case the lease which process through commissioner approval and board of supervisor approval goes through any changes. Thats a new form that has been added as of 2021 boy the government and county standards board so that when Television Government agencies report a lease it is done in the had same format as the Financial Statements. We have that check list to make sure it is in there. We will wait until we have the final form before we complete it and sends it out. So unless you have questions for real estate i will pass this to gary chow who will speak to how we found the Public Benefit out weighing the lease values significantly. Thank you. Tell be kim meridith the ceo go over the per inship. Hello. This is kim meridith im virtual. Grit to see everyone. You could move the slide deck forward to slide number 6. That would be outstanding. Terrific. So hello im kim the ceo of the San Francisco General Hospital foundation. Im honored to be here today. Our mission at the foundation is to fund and support patient care and innovation at the General Hospital. Why . We believe in Health Equity and he access to care for all. Our goals are alined with the true goals of the [inaudible]. And doctor susan erlikes team. We have this incredible partnership and this year were celebrating the 150th anniversary. August 28, 1872, the city and county hospital opened. And the following year, in 2023, will be the 150th anniversary of the ucsf and this partnership together. Clearly through pandemic, booms, busts. Earth quakes they have been there the wonderful expertise and physicians. This Incredible Connection with the 2 of them. And the 2 have found Additional Needs to support patient care and innovation at the dsfg the Public Hospital foundation was create in the 1994 or 95 timing. We will be celebrating our 30than verse row in the near future. Fascinating when you think about most patriot hospitals had a foundation for year and wonderful it has been to bring in private philanthropy in sudden finish to support Public Health. Raised the largest gift for a Public Hospital initial low. Our mission is, lined with sfg heart and commitments there are and of course we also care about not only our service to team and the community. 20 of San Francisco depoland everyier for care. When you look at the acute Care Hospital and the out patient hospital, 20 of all San Francisco all the time the largest pediatric clinic. Largest family Health Clinic. 30 of ambulance there. The place for people low income. Medical, medicare. Homeless, uninsured. We are prud to support that with our Health Equity lens. The next slide 7, talks about our priorities. Approximate. We created fiscal Year Strategic Plan with 4 areas to fund in terms of programs and [inaudible]. We have med a commitment to raise over 250 Million Dollars in those 5 years between fiscal 22 and 26, 250 Million Dollars, which it is what has been raised in the past 30 years. It is expectancyive, it is needed in order to support the work that fgment its prosecute void to the community and whether capitol or prioritiesure around transforming in Behavioral Health and have a funds for that. Trauma, clearly the Level One Trauma Center and Healthy Families i said, it statute learningest birthing center and the largest pediatric clinic. And then know finally wellness. As a human right. You think about the adult care and chronic needs in individuals who have not had access to health care their entire lives now do have access. As a result of the incredible work and support that the city and county of San Francisco gives to Public Health the leadership and hopeful low the role we play as the foundation. We are very grateful prosecute for your wellingness to provide office space. Im in the new office space now. We cleaned it up. It is still stark. It has been a wonderful investment and we are honored be your partner in this work. Thank you. And i will hundred it over to jason. Good evening. Everyone. Jason executive project manager csfg. I believe the next slide should be mine. If this is a didnt translate that well. Before. These are before and after shots of the space of foundation occupied. I the add that of that 4500 square feet or so that included accessible upgrades to our Public Restrooms in this building and also path of travel upgrades. Benefitted all of our staff and everyone that guess in that building. So also in addition to the mark mentioned up gridded the mechanical system as well. That serves the foundations as well as accounting office. More cohesive um sharing of resource between the foundation and the city. Um thats about all i have unless you have questions. Commissioners i think if you have other questions or if we did in the answer the questions this were submitted, we are here to answer them. Thank you, so much for the presentation i think it is wonderful something dry as a leaf has enabled us to show case the incredible work at the general and how important it is and how the Foundation Supports so many programs. It creates improved health for all of the citizens of San Francisco and delighted you are in a bright shine [inaudible] and the hearts of the picture it is symbolic of everything you do in the humanity you express in the work you do. Thank you all, everyone for the fundation to [inaudible] and all of our facility people who made this possible. Is there Public Comment. A person on the line weer item 11 the lose with the city and sfgh foundation. If you like to comment press star 3 now. No hands. Are there commissioner questions or comments . All right. Seeing none i believe we need a motion to approve the lease. Move. I second. Roll call. Commissioner giraudo yes commissioner chung y. Yes. Commissioner chow. Yes. Commissioner green. Yes. Thank you it is approved. Enjoy your new home. Thank you. All right. The next is our resolution making findings to teleconference meeting under code section 54935 e. This is the statement you passed i think 9 or 10 months that allows to you operate in the hybrid meetings. It is changing the dates. And so we are seek approval so you can meet. Right. Is there Public Comment on this one . No one on the comment line. Need a motion . I heard a motion from commissioner giraudo. A second . Second. I will do i roll call. Commissioner giraudo yes commissioner chow yes commissioner chung. Yes. Commissioner guillermo. Yes. And commissioner green. Yes. Thank you, that passes as well. So item 9 is the finance and Planning Committee update. Commissioner chung. Thank you, commissioner green. There are 2 parts to todays meeting the first part is to go over all the don tracts in the report and xr going over 2 contract to [inaudible] and those contracts [inaudible] on consent. I want to go in details. And then we also have discussion about the [inaudible] [cannot understand speaker] the Financial Consultant fee manage we are following closely. And both commissioner chow special i and have expressed like our disappointment. This institute that the bailo place. Would be in this kind of dilemma now. So but it is good to know that health right would taking over 2 of the fall programs they are plan to close and i think we will have more follow up in the future meetings. Then we adjourn. So i guess any questions or comments . I think we have the consent calendar, right . Next. Yes. And a quick note commissioners the Financial Planning members from did ask for updates and one of them the bake are place prc may come or the full commission. You will hear more regardless as the situation moves forward. And the next item is consent i need a motion to approve. All right. So sxefrn there is no one on Public Comment y. No one. So everyone reviewed the items on consent . I dont need to read them. Is there a motion to approve . Second. I will second. Roll call vote thank you. Why commissioner giraudo. Yes commissioner chung. Yes. Commissioner chow. Yes. Commissioner guillermo. Yes. And commissioner green. Yes. Great. Thank you. Passes. All right. Next other business. Is there other business anyonement its bring to the floor . And no commissioner giraudo has something to say. Great. Follow up to [inaudible] [cannot hear speaker] no audio. People here commissioner giraudo comments. Her microphone is not working i did in the know. She mentioned the heart event in february and more information will be coming as that event is planned is this appropriate commissioner giraudo . Which it is a fundraiser for the foundation pigging backing on what you just approved. Thank you. Thank you for reminding us. So, i guess we are ready for item 12. Which is the joint conference and report. Will do the meeting of october 25 of 22. Commissioner [inaudible]. It is october 25th meeting, thank you. From chair you add to i think essentially continues our work in review of different hospitals, services and departments emergency room and is and its diversion rates and continuing to be partly to the [inaudible] staff shortages. And work with the city ambulances [inaudible] 60 it close to their goal of 40 to 55 . And in our medical report, we heard an excellent report on the surgical department. Should be noted that 94o surge row is one of the world class departments we have that actually is changing emergency diameters throughout the world. In trauma and the Trauma Service. I recall having the key role and probably service before he [inaudible] and our current programs carry on in this tradition and are actually at the forefront. [inaudible] which continues to support all [inaudible] as they showed today x. Final low, open session we reviewed the protocols for one changing they are interested for wonderful for [inaudible] physician assistance. Physician no. Nurse track practitioners [inaudible]. It is so excellent i think this both commissioner green and i we are struck by not only detailed scientific backgrounds and one time it locked like they were copyrighting and told this in fact it is in the going to be copy writed after they have review today and they have it [inaudible] public, robea for anybody else who wants to use this algorithm. We can private low what the next [inaudible] and in closed session reviewed the [inaudible] program and Financial Report and [inaudible] needed to do our Due Diligence on behalf of the Health Commission this is my report. And saying commissioner [inaudible] you can add. Thank you very much i think you emphasized when were rable the surgery, organization and work the Trauma Service and that algorithm that just shows how certain [inaudible] and how important it is at the [inaudible] has everyone practicing the top of license using all the resources to gift best care to the citizens of San Francisco. It was wonderful. [inaudible] no Public Comment. Any commissioner questions or comments . All right. Then the next item is the october 18th 2022 community and Public Health committee update. From october 18th. Commissioner giraudo thank you. The first item this we heard was the environmental healing Emergency Response team. And the one of 30 promise was the hazmat team. They are 24 7 focussing on hazardous materials. Conception 19 aint with an incident on the bay bridge when it was shut down for 11 hours the materials could not be identified. There is they have a gap of at that point lack of Trained Personnel lead to the d ph unit formed. So this is a proactive group. The basic is 45 members. Now there is 2 members because of thaik vacant positions somebody is on duty 24 7 the trin suggest continual the employees operate under the sudden fran Fire Department structure. And responsibilities include ppe, sampling of different materials, disposal and transport of hazardous materials. Decontamination. Common incidents we asked them is abandoned hazardous waste. Environmental release and spills, suspicious letters and packages and special events such as the superbowl. It was interesting. And then the seconded item was the acredited which is every 5 years. Measures the Health Department performance against national standards. The benefit to the department is continual improvements, plans and reports are reviewed. There is 10 essential Public Health domains that are reviewed butt center is all for all of the domains is equity. So the the creditation for our group is on track for march 202223. Both other than informative reports. Director chung. Joy would like to say the Environmental Department you know at that group [inaudible] not in my [inaudible] and [inaudible] we dont get this year about their work often. [inaudible] their w is very important. Thank you. Thank you for this report. Very interesting. Any commissioner questions or comments . All right. The next is motion to go to closed session. I must have to go in closed session. Second. I no opinion comment i will vote commissioner giraudo yes commissioner chow yes. Commissioner chung. Why yes commissioner guillermo yes. And commissioner green. Yes. A second vote on the agenda and it is to vote on whether to acert Attorney Client privilege in relation to the closed session. We mead motions and a vote on that as well. Motion . I move. Second. Dot roll call. Commissioner giraudo yes commissioner chow. Why yes. Commissioner chung. Yes. Commissioner guillermo. Yes. And commissioner green. Yes. All right. Give us a few minutes to transition to closed session. No one on the line in case you see it know we will be back in open session in closed session the public cannot see or hear us. We will be back. We will close the meeting out. Second. And commissioner, please consider motion to disclose or not disclose what was held in closed session. I move not to disclose. Second. Okay. I will there is no Public Comment. I doll a vote. Commissioner giraudo come. Commissioner chow. Yes commissioner chung. Yes. Commissioner guillermo. Yes. Commissioner green. Yes. And there is a second action on this motion to report actions taken in closed session it is different then and there discussion. And again to the same motion the same action that you all dont share actions taken in closed session but need to vote. I move not to disclose action. Second. Thank you. Commissioner giraudo. Yes commissioner guillermo. Yes. Commissioner chung. Yes. Commissioner chow. Yes. Commissioner green. Yes. Now you are consideration for adjournment. I move to adjourn. I second. Roll call vote. Commissioner giraudo yes. Commissioner chow. Yes. Commissioner chung. Why yes. Why commissioner guillermo. Yes. Commissioner giraudo. Yes. Commissioner green. Yes. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, commissioners. Have a good evening. All right. Hi. Im alita fisher running for San Francisco board of education buzz im a former foster paraphernalia now adoptive parent and in the past 17 years 4 children attended 8 sudden fran schools. I have been an active partner at each one. Mom and grand mother were teachers i loved school. I was that kid who came home and played school with my toys it was nile journey identifying my childrens disabilities that trance formed me to parent activist and school was nots set up for everyone to succeed. Now im a special education advocate by profession. Daily, meeting after meeting i fived fight with families to get passport to help children succeed in school. I see how society marginalizes people who think and learn different low i can proviedz educationar all students and help everyone succeed. Im a policy [inaudible] a data nerd and more then and there 10 years serving on district level committees. I served on work fwroup and task force. I have been a collaborative partner and coalition builder. Work with teachers, districts and city leaders and more to increase funding for schools and improve out come for all students. Now more than every we need commissioners with a proven track record of collaboration on behalf of most marginalized. Endorsed by teachers union. Labor council, democratic party, many Democratic Club and elected officials and hope you will join me in voting them in voting for me on november eighth. Thank you very much. Hello im karen fleshmachine im running for board of education unified sudden fran for know fran unified. As a mom to 2 students daughter of retired edindicatored. Public School Graduate and voltory in my kids school. I demly value Public Education and community service. Im not a politician. Im a paraphernalia and Community Development practical tigzer committed to rolling up slows and vesting in our Public School silence. If elected, i will priorize investing in educators and students social emotional well being and academics. Providing budget trans paraphernalias and accountable and prosecute meeting collaborative decision make. Il use my 20 years of experience wing for local gentleman and nonprofits to help young people succeed in college, careers and life. And 10 years of experience helping immigrants become u. S. Citizen. Shifting w accomplice and School Community culture to be safer and positive for everyone. I will bring all this experience to support curriculum and programs and strengthen per inship this is prepares stounts for college and liveable wage careers. On november 8 vote karen fleshmachine for cool board. Hi im ann sheur the immigrant and business person on the San Francisco school board and running this november. I spent 25 year work nothing hightech as a professional and entrepreneur running my own companies. I dont got involved in school approximately ticks during the pandemic had nightmy sons enroll in the Public Schools disengage friday learning doing zoom school. They were playing video gameless. Watching net flex and talking with friends 15 hours a day every day. I also found a school board playing politics inside of addressing issues. This got me angry and worked with parents cross San Francisco to successful low recall 3 school board members. After mayor breed a pointed mow to the school board in march i worked with clothes to accomplish a few person tasks. First we hired a students focused superintendent. We passed a balanced budget and rescinded all layoff notices. Then restored criteria admission policies to Lower High School and dropped the wish wash lawsuit pel that would have cost half Million Dollars. And we restored jrotc to high schools. There is more work to do and that is why im running for election in november. I will prioritize students achievement and Academic Excellence for all students. Safe schools physically and e megzal for all students. And develop and Operational Excellence for our district. Time to reform sfusd and stop the politics. Time to focus educating students im counting on your preponder in november. Hello im Gabriela Lopez running for the board of education. My background is rot in the education. Dating back over 13 years. Starting off as a pair educator builted fundation to become a bilingual teach upper. Work nothing schools, i learned the importance of union work and became the Union Building representative and i member of the school counsels. I was the arts coordinator and participated in districted with ment for for success program. Become the youngest woman elected to the board of education a was feature advocate and elevate voices, concern and priorities of the people often left out of the spaces. During the pandemic, i med sure our district protected teachers, students and families. On the ground every day helping communities knight providing educational materialings. Supplies and workshops that helped parents learn to navigate. I continued to be advocate for sxejz working at university of San Francisco appropriating edindicatoreds for this role many in sf schools im dedicated to this critical work and when it is like to work for our city serving on the board of education. I learn friday this, grown and red to continue advocating for all of us to better serve our students. Im lainie and i was ash pointed in march of this year on the bell on the this november. I would love your support. Im focused on ensuring Student Success and building trusted. Last 6 months i hoired a new intrnlts. Billionsed the budget and focussed on had students need. Whether you have kids in Public Education or not a well functioning Public Education system is necessary for a community to retain young people and felless in the city and public School Graduates prep exclude red for futures. I have been a parent in the district for a decade. Both my mom and step dad are retired teachers. Had i join third degree district i pitch in how i can. Involved in pta. School councils andvilletory nothing schools in ways i could be of most help. 4 years ago appointed to Budget Committee devices on millions begin to the district from the city. The service gave mow insight in district funneling and student priors and awe a need for more transparency and honest conversations about what is working for our city councils, what is not and what our educators and schools need to serve students. No matter what school they attends. Draw on experience from state gentleman in regulation and policy. Business experience in tech untiling and Program Management and my nonprofit board experience i novemberigate added vocating needs of students and our district. Im running as a parent and language time advocate for quality education because i love our city. Im running because i want sfusd to be a world class Public Education system all families have a great option for children. Lets do this together im lainie and i love your support in november. Im lisa worried i was ash pointed the board of education in much of this year. Im product of Public Schools if circumstancelaw scoop i understand and benefitted from quality Public Education. Im sociality director ofim grant [inaudible] the job i have 2 rolls royce attorney hat i representative individuals facing deportation. Wearing the educator hatted i teach and mentor law students. Teach about growth minds set and critical discourse, consensus building and talk to others using a trauma informed lens. Because of my worky appreciate the value of starting conversations from a point of community rather than a point of difference. But im a mom a paraphernalia to 2 children. An honest torto be appoint third degree spring i accept today i know and experience first handled as a paraphernalia how body low the trust is broken with the school board and public i focus to rebuild the trust sxf equity for all. In 6 months we have been busy. Passed a balanced budget. Staff layoff notices. Hired a new intrvenlt bring new revenue. Created a Community Driven framework to improve high schools and enengage intensive w to improve our presses to focus on improving student out come in closing the opportunity gap. I have the skill this is will move us forward for the quality education this all students deserve i want my kids and yours and niches to have the best education possible. Thank you. Hello San Francisco. Im brian adam and running to be district 10 supervisor. I was born and raise in the san jose and worked as an engineer. Now i learned a lot working for city government. Im run to give san front a voice. Voter turn out and 3 and 30 speak a language other than english i want it easy to get involved im running on a simple plat furthermore of more housing, safer streets and better public transit. For the i want it clear the obtackles to more housing and support the programs helping renter become home ordinance. Stable ouz housing helps us all live our best lives. Next i donts think that more Police Officers other only way to a safer city. Alternative policies brought smrter policing and better results more i will focus on what works rather that than stick to one idea. Public transit already moves thousands around the city all the the time. Getting to work, doctors appointments or a time at the beach muni helps people do it. I will make sure well is funding and the dlrdz are used right. Ut category out a stop to make the system move faster i dont buy temperature i run half marathons i dont mind walking a stop or 2 more. Make our system run better does not mean making less accessible we pay because it is good for all of us to use. A good accessible Transit System will keep San Francisco connected in the future. Not only that, it is co to making the city safe, liveable and sustainable. And with that, i hope you will foind me online and vote brian sam adams district 10 supervisor this november. Thank you. This is walton president of San Francisco board of supervisors. Representing district 10. I am running for reelection i can serve the residents of San Francisco and make sure or isolated communities have representation. I will fight for fordable housing, make sure that we address the needs of people had are experiencing homelessness and do everything we can to get people off the street. We are a vibrant city and need someone who will fight to recover from this pandemic and our Small Businesses that are Hospitality Industry does in the continue to suffer. As the current president of the board of supervisors, i have been able to work with other members of the board of supervisors other leadership not only to tackle the issues of people sprngs homelessness, affordability in San Francisco and making sure that we recover from the pandemic but also doing everything to keep our communities safe. Being the only proirz to have a district safety plan that coordinates and brings everyone to together responsible for addressing safety and community violence. Making sure resources in accomplice for am dallas dovers on street. Officers for sfmta and making sure everyone working fort worth for safety come together to do their job. Im excited run for reelection and hope to see you all on november eighth at the ballot. Walton for district 10 supervisor. My name is rebecca fong young and i appreciate your interest in the public defend are race. The first race for public defelony in 20ier issue with your support i would be the first woman and chinese american to hold public defend in San Franciscos history. This is in the why im rung. Since the losses of form are public defender the on whiches is off course. The safety, quality and respect for all workers at the office and for women is under threat. Attorneys are struggling you should case loads, junior larceny prosecute moted over vet residence and result nothing Bitter Division the function of pursuing justice is compromised. Who pays . Some of our communities vulner annual. People who responsiblesed crushing poverty, racism and childhood trauma. I pledge to [inaudible] integrity competence excellence and in accomplice that increase diversity and prosecute mote inclusion now and our snks generation. But like jeff im more then and there a visionary. My pledge is becomed by 35 years of management, ltd. Ership trial and policy experience i served if Public Defenders Office for tw decades. Jeff recruited mow to lead his felony trial unit and sit on boards and working groups we revolutionized the Public Defenders Office and make it a national mltsdz for defense services. Made us proud to be public defenders with your support we begin the w of resterring this office to the core mission and to ushering a return to justice. I would be humanored have your vote. Im joel, i believe San Francisco best days are ahead. I know it hen frustrating living had things are in the wrong direction im in the giving up im offering a change. Time to replace the status quo. We deserve to live in a city this works. First, step is getting the basics right. Safer streets. Better schools. More housing and Small Businesses. I moved here 20 year ago to tick i job as a journallingist employmented advocate for people. I was raise boy a single misdemeanor. She cleaned houses for a living did not have much money but taught mow to get things done with resources we have my husband grew up in poverty still a Software Engineer we lived the San Francisco dream. I know our city is worth fixing. San francisco can realize the full potential. If we listen to when residence denials sill they need. Nots why i lead the school board recall. They needed school it is reopened not named. I lead the groups crime sf support criminal justice reform. People must feel safe and victims couldnt be ignored my inlaws are afrid it visit San Francisco. There is a lot to fix and can feel daunting i see a lot of joy in our city and Natural Beauty people and amazing food. The joy im a forward thinking dem credit that means i embrace ino vague. Focussed on result and Common Sense Solutions im sdwroel i will be humanored. Create our best sudden fran. San francisco. It is has been a privilege representatives district 4 im running as a second term. I fought for wing people over big koepgzs. If you for nishgd over downtown interest. Fought for fair share in services and i want it keep fighting for you. Im proud of had i prished working with the sunset District Community on top issues of concern. We worked keep our neighborhood safe creating the sunset 5 point safety plan. We worked to support our schools. Securing 8 Million Dollars in new fund for example college and career ready think program for hik and science tech untiling and math guarantee its district 4 schools. Worked on the housing afford housing and wed preserve and enhance our quality of life creating the ouster sunset farmers market. I republican for supervisor because i want my daughter to ford to live in the city and the neighborhood show is growing up inspect with clean and safe streets and good quality of life. Im rung gwen on condition that work the character of our neighborhood a place where wing class people can bee a home and raise a family can be protected. Sunset deserved a supervisor uncomp moiz nothing fighting for our neighborhood. In the sunset deserves a voice in city hall that lives in the sunset. Has are thes and referred of accomplishments for our neighborhood. Im proud to be that voice and all we accomplished together. Theres a new Holiday Shopping tradition, and shop and dine in the 49 is inviting everyone to join and buy black friday. Now more than ever, ever dollar that you spend locally supports Small Businesses and helps entrepreneurs and the community to thrive. This Holiday Season and yearround, make your dollar matter and buy black. Good afternoon, everyone, thank you for joining us this afternoon. Welcome to the Bar Association program on recall elections in the state of california. We are really excited that all of you can join us this afternoon to hear a very dynamic and wellinformed conversation about recalls in our grailt state. My name is yolanda jackson, im the director of the Bar Association in San Francisco and justice center. Some would say that recall elections seem to be happening more frequently now more than ever in our state. In resent years since 2018, we have seen i may be missing a few, we have seen recall in the sonoma, los angeles d. A. s race, the state Governor Newsom race, the senator josh newman race, and the San Francisco school board a year or so go and then just perksy in san jose which im sure many of you are familiar with. I want to start with having our speakers introduce themselves and then well make our way into the questions for our great speakers here. David, why dont we start with you. Hi everybody, david executive director of california constitution law. Larry. Larry professor mertis university, coauthor of two books on both the gubernatorial elections in california. Jamar haner. Survivor of 7 recall i would love to not make that 8. Joshua. Josh, before mention josh newman recall. I serve senate for the 29th district. I have the distinction of being recalled and regained which gives me a particular perspective on this conversation. Its great to be here. Thank you and joshua. Research fellow at the Constitution Center and author of recall elections. And i would like to recall last 12 years. Okay. So to our guests, if you have any questions, please enter the questions into the q a feature, you will not be able to do that in the chat feature. However in the chat feature, youll be able to get the materials used for this program. So you have any questions, please use the q a feature. Im going to ask this question, are you pro recall or against recall elections in the current state of law that it is now, the current rules, the current processes and procedures . So im going to start with at the stop, jamar. I think con is what they are, as a democracy we have to check in on the tools to see if theyre in line with our values. And from a transparency, one person one vote, were getting a little bit far away from that. So it is time for to us take another look at it. Okay, joshua . There is definitely changes that could be made but i think that there are power vasly overstated. They have been very limited actor in california despite the resent explosion of recalls on the state level. Okay, josh newman. As you may expect with my intro, im with jamar. I think the recall has out lived the purpose and its in need of reform and its current state subject to gaining gainsmanship and as you saw we should look at some reforms. Okay, larry . Too much unanimousity here. I see a place for recall as a bumper guard to protect, you know, extreme cases of of abusing ones power but certainly not the way it is right now. I think its much too easy to exercise and cause a lot of problems. Okay, and david. Well i will disrupt the uninimity. Its a important tool and some people call it a weapon and its not inaccurate. But the people judiciary, its fair on the recalls are quite rare, even though it seems theyre happening everywhere all the time now. In the grand scheme of things, its not exactly true. But that said, being a reasonable person i agree with my colleagues, there are always ways to improve tools and prevent gainmanship. I have a couple of reforms that i would be in favor of. Great. So the next question, its whenever wants to answer first, the next question what are recall elections and what do they look like in california on the local and state level . And historically why were these laws created . David carrillo is in a good position to answer. I was going to differ to professor garstim but fine. The historical along democracy reforms in they felt that the state was taken over by the basic interest. Those are all historical facts. So progressive felt returning power to the people and allowing them to directly legislator remove corrupt or non performing legislate tours, those weapons and tools were the best means of not just returning power to the people but returning democracy. That was the original justification. Anybody else . That is a good summary. Yes, thats correct. Of the abusive along the country and california and several other states from the midwest to far west. And you explained it why it happened here. So some have said even though it started with the railroad industry. That is now kind of being taken by big technology, either inter tees or individuals . Is there any truth to that . When you say its being taken over. History has replaced railroad as the bad guys so to speak. I think its, its far broader than that in terms of potential forces that do disservice to it . Service, we could spend the rest of this time talking about various powers Interest Groups and big businesses. Royal industries of this type of thing. That basically, exercise tremendous power over legislature. Its far more fair against the initiative process. In the recall context, arguably the po at this time cal parties have been the biggest players. And when you see a distinct absence of big internet corporate interest like, facebook or lyft or uber, you do see them in the initiative context. The biggest misconception that ive recall it falls under the ballot measure generally for the state of california in terms of transparency and other things. A lot of the concerns that people generally express with proposition whatever side, you can pour a bunch of money and some things will happen. Thats what we play the california not the committee role. The importance is the initial step in carrying a recall is process. So if its statutory, that recall components have to reach in order to get the question on ballot and then the question on the ballot is, its a twopart question. The first recall and with whom would you replace him or her. And you know, my argument which youll hear is the precedence of the second question that has created a whole partisan mischief if you will. Really policy base and not, not at all partisan, as many have partisan issues, theyre generallier one party or the other. While you may say it differently about the d. A. , the San Francisco d. A. , that there was a lot of money given by some tech backers but generally theyre very issue focus. And im glad you raise the idea because if i have it correct, unlike the california recall where there is twopart process. In the case of d. A. , the mayor ~ charter city. Right. So she has the power in this case to appoint an interim d. A. We need to be aware of some differences. My interest primary is at the state level. Youre right, there is three categories that we should look like and they dont overlap. One is state wide official recalls which is defined by the state constitution. Then there is general law city procedures by recalls which are set by statute and then charter cities which are the option of doing recall and they can create whatever procedures they want. Okay. So josh bebac how california recall compare to other states where they may be doing it differently or better . There is a lot of election in the recall, the recall is not a west only mexico president is recalled this year. Taiwan has been very active in recalls. But in california we have this oneday twostep process which is vote on the official, vote yes no and then vote for a replacement. In many states there is no statement, there is an appointment. There is a snap election, we saw that in which is withs where it was just a new election. In some places, there is a twoday process, where as recall and then days or months later, and in other places that candidate with run into the replacement race and they can win that. In massachusetts, the candidate ran, the mayor ran and won even though he was recalled in that same race. Okay. So why do we have these laws . Why do they exist and what was the intended purpose from the beginning of time . And what do you think the intended purpose is now. I cannot speak to the beginning of time but the progressive ideas that we talked about a moment ago. That was the rational behind the recall, at the time the sun of Pacific Railroad voting for people was not enough. There had to be an opportunity to remove people for whatever reason that they proved to be unsatisfactory to the voters. And that basic reason still applies here today because, because california is not what you call malfesant base. I understand though that again in the origination, part of the reason may have been to get rid of corrupt politicians. That threshold where does that exist in measuring that before somebody can be challenged and a recall being filed against them . There has to be corruption, thats one reason. So if somebody gets caught taking a bag of money from facebook or railroad, that is obvious recall. But newman described it as bad faith. And thats something in the subjective in the minds of voters. And you learn what voters think when they go to the ballot box. If you go back to look at their recall election, gavin newsom, a year ago, the process best to the ability, a dozen or so reasons, they didnt like the taxes, they didnt like the k12 registration. Covid rules. But not any of those reasons had to do about corruption. We can say a lot of things about gavin newsom but there is no allegations of breaking law and there was only policies that people did not popular policies. It was intended but never intended to be a requirement. It was not then and it was not now. Its important to remember the validation step in the expectation by the framers, is that if a politician elected, manifested bad faith the proof was the securing of the threshold what we saw in Governor Newsoms recall, because the pandemic, the judge allowed the extension of the time limit. Without any recall ~ corruption was not, it was mentioned but it was not focused in the debate it was corruption in the general sense and thats what i dont like about that a official. If you go back to 19 03 bh l. A. Adopted it, youll see it was not just, hey they knew about the limitation. Another factor that is not necessarily in california in many cases we have increased the terms. And you see this in 1992 where they moved from 2 year to 4 year and at the time they adopted a recall statute. They were always much shorter in recall history. If were going to give them more time in office, we should give the voters a way to take them out. Of course in california, we had of any state, the strictest, we also have the strictest term limit law. So if you think about it, were really tying a lot of hands here. Very strict term limits, you cannot run again once youre out and done unlike most states with term limits. And as i said, the toughest one in terms of making it impossible, for the governor to run again, as part of the b part if you will. Or, or any other way, like the lult governor stepping in or several. Its strange combination here. So camarah, you represented a lot of recall, what do you think of this being so low in terms of what you need to do to put somebody in the recall. I think, that in an ideal world, i think thats great. I think where we are currently, unfortunately, an apology any other political consultant on zoom, politics is also a business and has become a cottage industry. This now allows for whoever to say, lets start a recall and the first thing a Campaign Manager is going to say, what are the limits, how much money is can we make and pend, and its unlimited. You can have as much as you want come from when are ever, and the things youre generally concerned about and that the fact that we dont have any Disclosure Requirements in the terms of silt sens united. Fior me, i care about transparency and the other guard rails that we have in most other parts of our elections or should and whether its propositions or other things, where we dont have them, whether family industry, dialysis, those are really great ways to spend observe, a big amount of money and what is different here is you get to give it directly to a candidate committee unlike any other candidate election. Unlike 10 Million Dollars here you can say, your honor, heres 10 Million Dollars i want to save your career. Just from a balance. And just to be clear, its unlimited fund race for those facing the recall and those against the recall. 100 . And im going to look to you david. How many recall elections have we had in california since these laws were enacted . This is from the article, we submitted as part of the materials. All california from 19 11 to 2021, 179 petitions only 11 qualified which 6 of filed. Of succeeded at the ballot, which is 55ish of qualified. So youve got 5 recall legislature and one recall governors. The other petitions either failed to qualify which is a 96 failure rate. We have only resent years worth of data centered to the century worth of 179 at the state level. So just in the last ten years, saw 155 local recall drives. 139 of the petitions qualified which is 20 . 86 succeeded at the ballot which is 62 of qualified. Last at the ballot is about an 85 failure rate overall. Thank you. So sing we touched on this a little bit but im going to ask the question more pointient for you to answer. What are the positives on a recall. I was going to say i think a positive can be, if involved in a right way, it rewards the ground game talking every single one of your neighbors, the part of no cra see that you like. If you have a strong field game as opposed to relying on the tv commercials. Like anything else, i think that part is fine. Larry . Look, there is benefit to removing somebody from office who really doesnt belong there because of behavior that people believe is not right. Even if its not illegal, unethical. There is a reason for the recall. If its set to a high bar i guess. And like a lot of things, direct democracy is good when people really are involved beyond pushing the lever, or beyond filling out the ballot. When they really are aware of what is going on. To the extent that it heightens awareness, thats another good thing about it. I mean, there is some good things about it. I think most of us believe that, that theyre good right now is, impacted adversely i think by some of the other things that we will talk about later on. Can i go . Yes. I would look at it in reverses. You would be pissed if you didnt have it in the following three circumstances. Number one, while trump was president , i bet everybody would be happy to launch a recall against him. Here in california, judge percentpersky, a woman rallied the troops and lead a bomb burning, people were pissed, they wanted him out and they made that happen. Jason goode, kind of same thing. Some wealthy people donated the money to do the signature drive, fine. That does not change the fact that over 50 of San Franciscoian voted to recall him. They wanted him out. People would have been angier if they had no ability to make their opinions felt at the ballot box and we were just forced to ride it out. Ive got with you on this one. In two of those cases, the best of my knowledge there were no breakages or violations of the law whatever. People didnt like the way they were carrying out the responsibilities. To me, thats the reason because i dont like a person is doing something. We have elections for that. Scheduled elections. And as far as trump goes, okay, there may be in fact that has been illegal. Once again, and im talking about trump here, until these things are proven, even then we have to hold back. This idea of, to me it borders on whimsical. How they somebody else might recall better and then, we vote. But to make it easy for no reason other than win, i think that underlines the democratic process. Its not so simple, or we would have them all the time. One of the big arguments here is the amount of voters who support rerlds. Not based on polls polls, dont really mean too much. In california, when in 1911, it was over 70, it was like 75 . New jersey adopted in 1993, 75 . Minnesota had a in 1996, they adopted it with this malfeasent. It would have destroyed the recall in San Francisco. More people voted against that ballot measure than voted against hudin. So even people who were in favor of huedin did not want to lose that power. So can i ask a question about huedin race. I think you said, 72 ~ no, 50 . Is that preventive, 55. Okay, was there only 20 of the voter base or the voting population that voted . I think it was extremely low. So i just wanted to clarify that and that was the question we had in the audience. If people loved him, why didnt they vote against the recall. Good question. Sometimes i do see that question, and sometimes its low and sometimes had thes high. 2003 saw proof, same thing with sky walker in wisconsin in 2012 versus when he was elected in 2010. So recalls is not just this low turn out race. It could be a very high turn out race. Youre right and in the dennis recall people were angry for a number of things that happened. Not just one thing. And out of that anger, they did vote in higher numbers than we normally expect. So another question from the audience, is it naive at best that money does not have an over sized affect on the election. The huedin recall was not about money. Every election money has an outside impact. Let me actually if i can illustrate it in my own experience. I was elected to the senate in 2016 and to raise gas tax. And because i had won a seat in hill, one of the most closely contested election in the past cycle, i was the one member targeted for that recall, house voted but it was 26 democrats and one republican. And the narrative that i had arbitrated the recall. The money had come from state. And that money paid for, you know, gathering the signatures, and had got to the ballot and to the earlier district, it was a low primary vote in which the recall ballot took place and fewer people voted for my recall than voted. Than the recall. And that runs counter to the framers to remove a corrupt malfeasent or bad faith appointed the fact that in general, laws will regular elections dont apply to recalls. Theyre always one off, theyre always special elections. There is no contribution limits. All of these things can be fixed along with replace candidate by statute. So the legislature can make the independent candidate apply to replacement candidate so they have to get 1 of the voters, all of this can fixed by statute. Its not whether money should be because its a fabt of life, if you play the game like foul, its a question of voters wanting to know where the money is coming from. I hope that nobody is arguing about that. And im in favor because its so easy because they can do it by statute. Was it david, easy relative term. Amending the constitution. Yeah, were going to get to that question. So another question from the audience is, are recalled fromis it en thaous aist for people who oppose the elect than those who support the status quo. Let me start, and other folks can step in. So we made a change legislatively to allow for the partisan designation of the targeted to be included in that line. But previously, that was not the case. So what you had, an elected official, yet most people dont know who represents them, 10 of voters can answer the question unprompted. Soing there was an implicit bias that came into play. If you had two questions. Should sean should be removed from office. Well tom tom, may have done something wrong. But six candidate and and that voting, what the hell, i dont know who tom is, but i get to choose somebody from my party, why not, why not. So we change that but i still thing there is a bit of a bias against the incumbent once it gets to the ballots. Once recalls get to the ballot theyre more likely to succeed. A little bit, we skal calculated at 55 . The one stat that really goes through my mind, i did expect, somebody calls are on special election days and some are general election days or primary days if they can tie it to those they do, you would have thought that the special elections were more likely to succeed. In fact theyre less likely to succeed. So youre more likely to survive a recall in a special election than a another election. So its not that big of a difference. Its really do we dislike this person or not. But josh, other kind of questions causation, in a special election, thats the one thing. In a general election, you come to the ballot for a lot of reasons. It may not have familiarity with the person subject to recall. Its hard to discern what is driving them. Well actually, i could site this really great stat. In 2018, speaker of the assembly in michigan faced a recall. The speaker of the assembly face a recall. Andy. And on that hes facing the recall on the same day that hes facing reelection day so its highest turn out day president ial election. He wins overwhelmingly. But 2000 voters. There is a huge difference between the turn out between his first vote and his recall, almost everybody who voted for him, to be recalled, also almost everybody voted against him also voted for the recall. It was a 2000 vote. So its further down the ballot and yeah, as the thing, they did ignore it and get rid of other people who were focused. Lets go both even if he was going to be there for three months. Generally its surprising. I think the biggest impact for special elections on the county general budget and i think thats one thing that some folks are concerned b theyre born by the general fund of whatever happening. There is no extra Rainy Day Fund for elections. Ish million. But especially for smaller countries, they dont have the general funds lying around because they have forest fires and other things that they panic about. Its about how much money does your county have lying around. So that takes me to my next question, jamarah, what are the cons to special election . Weve heard the cons. Weve heard the unlimited amount of money that can be thrown into these races. What would you say, how would you define smft negatives . I would say that recall a little bit of a recall broken records, but recall he lebs are the less Transparent Elections that i can think of, other than American Idol or Something Like that. There is not a lot of transparency and as we sit there more frequently, i appreciate the longer terms statistics but we look at a lot of things going on and much like a business, cash grab happening right now. All the more reason to put some guard rails on politicians but also on political consultants. Aoufr saying. Right. Because of the money issue . Correct. It does not come from anywhere. Anything else. Got you. Exactly. Let me answer it, which we touched on it but i think its important so josh you mentioned the number of recall petition thats dont succeed that dont qualify. I would argue that that step probably has more deterious affect than people realize. In the face of an attempted recall. It has, you know, a real challenge in succeeding as a public servant, and even if they dont succeed, the noise that they generate, the passions they unleash, clearly especially at the local level have been had a massive negative affect in the last ten years. Cant really disagree. That somebody resigned. I would say that the negative is one of the things that jamarah mentioned that they would thats what they did, they should not develop this because thats what would happen. I think thats negative of officials being scared. Not taking the steps that they should take, i think that argument is always there. The recall, the real basis for the recall, the goal here is philosophical between what is an elected official . Or is it somebody that were using as a representative who is there to establish our positions and the recall is very much that on the scale of represented model. So if you prefer that trustee model and many people did, Alexander Hamilton was a huge proponent of it and thats why he proposed recalls back in the constitutional days but if youre a fan of that, yes, the recall is a big negative. And there are a lot of good arguments to be made, that would be a better situation if we had a more trusting model. Can i go . Yes. I would echo jamarahs comments about money and thats where i would focus. In three parts, i would increase the signature appointment, it a little too easy to qualify, i would make people spend a little more money, money standing in for serious and support. I would make it harder to become a replacement candidate. Again it would cost more money, again showing seriousness and support. And im troubled by the that there are no legislature. I will agree with david in any own experience. As my recall started, one of the democratic caucus, said ive got bad news and good news. Bad news is this recall is going to qualify the good news is that you can raise as much money as you want. So professor, in our call when we talked about the signature threshold, you were the one that said there is a risk to lowering that and i hope i have the right person who weighed in, who said yes, we should increase number of signatures needed. But one of you thought there was a risk to doing that. It should be higher. But i dont know who it is. It was the legislature and unfortunately, i think its real. Moore importantly, i think it will be received as a, you know if its a prevalent proposition. Doesnt that apply to anything . Anybody who wants to attack a reform to the recall, their first argument will be to that its selfserving. Isnt that the First Response that you get . I guess, depends on how it resonates. My proposal, i have a constitution amendment that i will introduce this year. As we touched on it earlier, is to restore, the recall as a mat per of integrity. But other reforms that many of us here, i think will consider, are really hard especially if you bundle them together. Because it creates more service area for folks to shoot at and more doubt, as to whether or not this is good for me or them. Can i go to joshs last point for a second. You said, because this amendment youre proposing would eliminate the second question, no arguing with that. But my question is, how the governor or somebody else has been moved, what do we do . So you apply the same replacement processes that you would for others, so if the governor is removed, no different than if the governor died. If the constitutional officer is removed, no different than if the constitutional officer moves to the next regularly scheduled election. For a legislature no different than if i were to resign, that would wait for a special election. So doing, would you remove some of incentive to chin up, you know, a new election that would get you a different result than the most resent election. So just to follow fup, if i understand you correctly, the lieutenantgovernor would go ahead and be governor or acting governor. In the next election correct . If its within different parties, what if they use this as an opportunity. You know, that is possible, its also very enlightening in california, youre going to have it in the future. But that takes so much work. That it seems more likely that that governor is going to invest in simply running for governor. I can recall for the next 20 to 40 years. That does not bother me, simply because, im so much institutionalist, thats one of the problems that i operate with. That does not bother me either. That model is issued in many states. And one of the things that we have not seen is that breaks down recalls. So oregon has that. And they have basically even the state is a fraction of a size, the same amount of recall as california in the local level. And they tried to recall the governor because there was a possibility that the replacement, it was very unclear would have been a particular an but its not clear that it would have been. But they made serious efforts there. And they also got to the state. 500,000 signatures so they recall just in case the courts adopt and say the lieutenantgovernor should be in office. Its not clear that that would really help. But in fact, it could be like why dont we get all of those people at once . Lets take that, lets take that approach. I dont see why they wouldnt. Because you can put as many people in the petition as you want. And david made a point earlier, three different classes of he electricked official that pertain to each. Right now im talking about slate level and above. For governoring law cities, we can change this statutory. We would make changes last year that make sense fpt but once you get to Legislature Constitutional official with governor, you know youre looking at a ballot proposition. So keep it simple and make it underable and compelling to the voters in order to secure their incentive. So have any you, do you have a good example of when you think the recall process was abused . Oh i do. [laughter] and tell us how you define abuse when you give your example. Okay, if you want me, real quickly. So again, you know, elected fair and square close election, so closer to 3 weeks to determine a winner. Along with 80 people cast a vote. I was the only member in the recall. I was known as the weak, orange county, it was hard for them to believe that i won this election. And going in this constitutional to get rid of a democrat in red orange county. I warn you to my dine days, that was an abuse of the process. You know, senator newman and senator deminute, both over the democrats having a twothirds majority. If you look all the way back to senator e grant in 19 14, it was similar, and the person he placed was the candidate that replaced him eddie wolfe. There were no recalls for a long time. I think the judge is one to consider. Its very hard to say. Should judge be elected and then face the recall. I think you have a really good case for that was really big discussion when you were adopting the recall in 19 10 lemg slate tour, it was a major topic in the 19 12 election, president ial election. So judicial, recall of judges is a kind of a very touchy complicated subject that did not work. And in l. A. , cant Council Districts are million of people. We had an elected who beat a recall. So you would have had a recall and run off forever both within 8 months and that does not make sense. So its a question of can you wait 5 more minutes when its literally months away, thats common. I think yolanda, im struggling with your word abuse. For my own definition, i guess, i would say the recall system with the newsom recall. No laws broken in issues in the way if you use it that way. And davis case, i think there was certainly the question of some abuse in his, unwillingness. One of the problem with the davis, we suddenly had a budget shortfall of 3540 billion dollars back in the day, were talking 2002. And that almost all of that had been kept secret. It didnt come out, well to me, thats an abuse. Thats an abuse, so i can understand why, why that moved forward and i would say that there is some legitimacy. But word use is abuse. What were talking about is exploitation. So using my case as example they were exploiting. Everybody agree that there is something off about that about the framers and in 2011, it was not thought about you may have majority, it was about something much larger more profound in that thats what was intended. My response would be similar. I think one area where recalls trouble me is when theyre deployed as tactical weapons by the political pearls themselves. So the example of a couple of people switched flags and that changed the speaker of the assembly or changed Legislature Majority control, that to me takes it out of the realm, the people are angry and its much more partisan, Political Party warfare. I think thats what the recall is designed for not for. Quick reminder anybody who has questions feel free to drop those in the q a. My next question do you have example of when it works the way it was suppose to work or successful . Or a good use of the process . Taking the k. K. K. Out of that, the one that we could not sent the use of the recall process, that was in 1922. I can tell you that the recall finest hour was that it solved in 59, we think of 57 as the end of that. But 59 was the money. And im going to disagree with david and with others. I think the recalls of doris alan were exactly what you want to recall those for. Those two officials switched from republican to democrat, or independent allowed willie brown to remain speaker as republicans won majority. Thats a First Political betrayal. Youre voting for the candidate but youre also voting for the candidate to support a party. And its never been more important who dp s going to be in control. Who is going to be the speaker . Who is going to have control of the committees. So that official switch that vote and, and basically deprive, the reason you voted for them that they are comma democrat they would have lost. To at least have another shot of that person have a date on whether that person should survive or not. Ill agree. And ill also say, i dont live in San Francisco so i dont know about the recall. Well the sentiment was justified because they got required signatures but to talk about big money including big money put in the removal side, that certainly tilted the odds. Again, i think that to my own values and again i have no horse in that race but i think, the recall is when you recall somebody because you dont like what theyve been doing even though what youve been doing is perfectly legal. He had an approach beinger he was elected with that approach. And thats what he did. As with, i think with the gray davis deficit, i think there is a larger context there. Which was the perception was the crime is exploding in San Francisco. And again, the sense was that the d. A. Was not attentive to them, and underlining. As you talked to people in the aftermath, the end goal is right result was, what happened. Youre not wrong, you didnt commit a crime. But in the context the perception of crime in San Francisco, it makes sense. I have one. Senator marshal black recalled in 1913 for mal feasence in office for funds. That works. Also, you have one. Great with it. L. A. Is in political free hall and our city hall is in complete mess. Others will resigned from city council and others will not. Its the amendment in that tampering with the citizen redistricting, but there is no other tool. So youre effort of los angeles is dealing with that. Im not sure of my opinion just yet. But theyll give a number of tools and theyre all inperfect. But looking at this reform as were talking about today is needed. Okay, so if you all david, kind of alluded to the scenario. But if you have control to change the recall election laws in california to improve the purpose and the outcome, how would you fix it . I will start. I mean, i have some agency here. Again, i have a constitution amendment as constitution which ill reintroduce. We didnt get to it last year because there were a lot of other things in the ballot that were thought to be. But my amendment is narrow and what ifng is attainable notwithstanding other things that we may do. But if you get too ambitious, it may get challenging. I would, two things that come to mind. One we already discussed and the other one gets kind of dicey. But the first one is to get rid of the second vote. Its a nobrainer. The way it works right now, you know this, it take place a place of the governor can get far fewer votes than the governor to have to stay in power. Thats cacamami and it sets up this haounl, in the davis campaign, like 135 people, cast and character too. And somebody could have won that race with 18 if it was not for schwarzenegger. And the other thing, and this is a dicey one. Would i come up with a list of things as reasons for the recall. I know, im stepping on toes here, thats okay. You know breaking the law, obviously would be first and for most. Now after that, it gets dicey. What kind of ethical lapse . John but i would want to have, just because i dont like the person, to me is not good enough reason. It just isnt. You live with that until the next election. But i believe to joshs point in the trustee model, not what we call the delicate model. Thats the other one. I want to have a set of reasons so that in my mind back to yolandas question about the abuse, those would be the abuses, breaking the law and something of that. And larry, the elections and constitution limits and we had a series of meetings to talk about these things. And as we worked through that item, it was going to be impossible to articulate that was agreed upon. So even though, we can all agree on that, its a very hard thing to legislate. Can i go . Yup. Recapping what i mentioned before, i would look it at it from a perspective it would be difficult to get the voters to agree on the constitutional. Justifiably skeptical at self dealing. I would assume that no constitution amendment is possible. Particularly things like contribution limits, reporting and my number one thing that i first thing that i would do is clarify the procedure to be a replacement candidate. Its been a problem twice for two separate secretary of state and the newsom recall. The fact that they had dis gression is a problem, its a gap in the law that is easy to fix in that it only takes a statutory change that would be a low hanging fruit. So let me clarify, one route is to get the constitution change and that requires a vote. And josh newman referred to this earlier, why is that so difficult . Is there no appetite in sacramento to make shes changes that people have suggested in sacramento . I guess, ill answer. I think if youre an elected member, whether you realize or not, part of your consideration like could that happen to me . And if youre gut is no, its not the highest and priority. And all legislation takes a lot of work. So to clarify, what it takes to get a, unlimited ballot. It first requires twothirds vote on both sides of the legislature, not an easy thing. Its really kind the work factor, the amount of political will. And to davids point, one of the reasons that we dont make that change, its about the bottom half of the recall. That everybody to la res point is messed up. So youre making a messed up thing a little bit better. So for rest of us, polling shows that there is support, certainly there was suppose coming out of the newsom election of the elimination of the second question. The question is it worth our while to move it through legislature to the ballot. This is not the kind of thing worth and the money in the yes dot. So thats important to consider also. When its part of a larger cycle. I get that. I would get if there is a stand out feature it was the clown car of the replacement candidates that you saw in gray davis and gavin newsom. And eliminating that is something that the laej slate youre can do with a simple majority. Making a comparative point here, its easier to do that its a lower majority and something that the legislature can do on its own without going to the voters. Ill carry that legislation. I think i might, and it will be interesting to see how it goes. But lets connect afterwards. I would love to. And i would be in the position of supporting something. One is eliminate the second question and that moots the issue that im raising but that requires the two votes, i see that the lower percentage phone call that they can do with a simple majority. And you can spin it as were fixing the recall you will never see a clown car in california again. Go ahead. So limb tating the second question, may not solve the problem that you want to solve. So, what i would suggest is instead a snap election. That is what happens in other places. When you have that first question, youre still requiring that elect official get 50 . Which now youre not requiring them run off you sort of. But generally not required to get 50 . Youre first thats who wins. A snap and thats what feels very odd about the recalls, that you have that and then you have the second question when the candidate does not need the second election. So snap election is much more like what we have in our regular election. Is it a second type of perform that idaho has which i call queen of the hill; that you not only need to knock out the person. Have the yes but vote has to top the vote that that person won when they won office for the first time. So it does not look like a small amount of voters voting. It has to beat that vote. So thats a way to deal with them. The other thing, is just the signatures, you switch the signature requirement for what we currently have which is voter turn out. So you need 12 of voter turn out for the governor and this is not for everyone. In l. A. This does not count because they already have. You turn it to voters which would increase the signature requirement and make it much harder and at the same time, not make it based on the last election. So its more of a straight line. So again, that is something that josh that we considered in committee and it was again, the consensus was that received by voters is kind of a big switch. Sounds like youre up to something. So not a bad idea. I will say of the snap election, i think most of your idea, i think thats a terrible idea. And what na is likely to do is fewer unnecessary recall elections. You can likely see that is a vote of no confidence and you can see that happening all the time. Why wouldnt it, its easier to do it this way instead of a snap election. In the snap election, you have it and the candidate does not have to have 50 . So if its running against somebody else. That new candidate, the person who wants to taikds the oftens leads to that race that the regular candidate get under 50 . To larrys point earlier, why have them all the time . Just because somebody can get the signatures does not mean you should. But its, basically the same match is happening. The question is what is the requirement of that elected official to stay in office . They need 50 or could they get less . And thats what would happen in the election. Plus the official will have on what a real election is. We saw this with gavin newsom when gavin was running, it was a tough place. There was gavin newsom, and he has somebody who will be the replacement. Removed but im going to be defaced by larry elder. Why did he have to do that in the first place. Larry made that point very well, which is get elected in the year 2018, you have not done anything wrong. Why should you have to run a special election against larry elder if you have not done anything wrong. Why would that not increase the incentive to continual be look to snap election. Why would it be than the recall recall. Im not sure how its different than the recall as it currently exist or recall with just. I think its about the incentive structure around the recall and what makes it more or less likely that it its going to happen. And again, the original intent was there was some sort of threshold standard for suitability, fitness for office. If its simply about politics, that runs counter to our expectation from election to election. But thats how it runs now. Does that elect official have a right. It should not be the same we should revert to somebody that is more sensible to instigate. So im going to go to jamarah now if you can fix this at the snap of a finger you can give 500 to a candidate and say here, im all andeverybody else play the rules. And josh can you get your point a moment ago . I hope so. Different answer for what you would do to fix this . Just snap elections, treat it for what it is, it is a political event. Thats what we see here. Or at the very least, do something to make it that queen of the hill process, that they dont have to get 50 , has a higher standard threshold to survive than they do in a regular election. Okay. . Fm there is another question from audience in San Francisco how have contribution limits changed . Does that also require an amendment to the charter . Does anybody know . I think it does. I think it does, but you can do that, local vote. Local initiative, yeah. There was another question about changing recall procedures in San Francisco and the answer is the same. San francisco is a charter city and they can go from 0 recalls to wide amendment of town in the rail and anybody in between. And i think its a simple majority. Thats something that we have discussed but simple majority. And another question, does the current election recall have any affects on candidate considering running for political office. Does it keep good people from running because of this notion that you may be facing a recall shortly after you get elected im sure well be speculating. Im going to say yeah, absolutely, i think you get people who are maybe more hesitant to say, i dont want to get in the dogfight that is politics all the time. If i may make that person angry or if i have to make a really tough call like during covid. So and it a tracks people that by nature love a fight. I dont know that thats the group that we want in politics because its a lot what we have. There is a lot of reasons not to run for office. A lot. Thats why i was i admire those that do. Does this really change the paradine . I dont think so. And what the othersed are, not only to win and putting the coalition that puts together. I dont know if this changes, but its a reason that you may add to all the others. Also in the context of where we are anytime somebody says, if i give you 10 Million Dollars can you overturn that outcome . And the answer for recalls is more likely than not, i can make a good shot it. So thats a troubling question, more for other actors in the civic space. I suspect not . I suspect as larry said, there is a lot of reasons not to run. Much with anything else, there is a lot going on in our process that will make you not want to be in office so recalls is a low on the list compared to whatever things there is. I can say josh as a member of elected community, youre right. It is low in the list but larnler environment and it makes it less likely that more people will stand. If you think about, my sense is, when a person runs for office, that person has a healthy ego. I think i can do some good. I think i can make things better. And if you have that kind of mentality, i dont think really into your head its going to head, that they may recall me. I can vouch for that as a guy that was recalled, me of all people . My goodness, that could never happen to me. Definitely right. Okay, so our final question, given the current parent of how recall elections are being used and at what rate, do you think that were on a trend to see more or fewer elections in california in why. David made a point early on and i want ed to jump on it because it was so intriguing. You talked about a large number of them in the last few years, correct. Yeah, im going to share my screen and i can show you what i mean. So josh and i reviewed all california recalls from inception and we put it based on qualified success at the ballot and the graph im showing you right now, shows it parsed by office. And it does not matter how you look at it when its parsed by office or qualifying versus successful or you look at the overall. The overall its hard to get away from the take away that recalls are periodic. Theyre more popular in some time period than in others. And right now is the most popular time for recalls all the time. But its, its one of those, right . Yeah. The data does not show that there is a lean or progressive, there is spikes and peeks and values. It depends on the time. Yes, and they cannot forget. My point is, this is were in a era where people distrust government more than other eras. And this is one of those moments in history, the last 1012 years where skepticism and conspiracy theories and all of these things are abundant. Thats when youre going to see these numbers go up. People are already angry or to use the words, pissed off about so many things. And hopefully there will be another period where things calm down and when they calm down, they will not be so mad. I hope youre right about that. And the davie show was unqualified recall. It was unfiled versus qualified, so we, we both and obviously filed there is going to be a lot more. As i mentioned before, you know, to the extent that the impulse is there, the mood is there. To the professors point. Its the ones that dont qualify that have the most negative impact. And large, youre some, elected to a school board and you find it after waiting period, say the 0 days, you make a vote and there is an issue and now youre the rubt of recall. Thats a nightmare for anybody who thought i would be a productive participant. And i think thats a problem. And to be fair the recall is used more in the local level. The more successful to local level. Its been on local level in American History. Theyre a local level, theyre not partisan. Theyre, almost always about issues like the school board should recombine cools. You fire the superintendent, taxes, road repair. Right now solar reforms are popular in michigan and midwest. So people who are opposed to those are facing recalls. So theyre very policy base. Now one area that we saw a lot of recall attempts last year and the year before, did not succeed at all was covid restrictions, covid policies. And you can say in many ways, thats bad but in other fashion, it was the biggest change in a policy in our lifetime, and possibly in American History for most voters. So that a lot of people were opposed and okay, they got a chance to say their say and they found out they were wrong. And maybe gave those elected officials, some benefit that hey, okay, i survived this and they tried it and failed and look what happened. There is also a proxy for the kind of politics as well. Just about the policy. But it was, it was not, it was, in idaho thats where most a lot of them were at. They were in places where it was not a democrat versus a republican. I appreciate it. In california it was largely driven where the politics correlate to the policy position. In california, they did not make arguably and newsom, but yeah. But nationwide, this was an issue. One thing that you should consider is just the recall blows up in your face. These elected officials, senator newman is unusual as the only state legislature who is recalled and reran and won that position. But it happens all the time in the local level and it happens where he lekted official does better, the first governor lin fraser 19 21, gets elected senator a year later. Diane feinstein faces a recall and on the list for a Vice President. One of the reasons weve seen a lot of recalls in california from 94 to now the state has had a huge shift. The state is not a republican state as it was once was. Now its blue and getting much much bluer. So this is a push back, we saw in in 2019, the republicans decide today make their focus the recall. They said were going to teach democrats, and the democrats had arollout and joe biden was the first to win colorado by double digits. So it does not work in your voters a lot of time. They generally have idea and they will punish you if you use them. I think the business of politics just to live in the real world right now. Consultants are like life insurance, you should do this new thing, its going to get you what you want and recall in the current context, theyre also the fund new toy. That political consultant and Campaign Managers have. Thats where the industry is shifted. And you can see there is a industry, thats where they have it in california. And sometimes they storm the capitol but there is a lot of new money to be made so its a very much a market. So taking a free market so to speak, so right now now, its a cash grab and somebody is going for it. I never have seen consultant have so much fun with the ex tense. Again, yes or no question from you. You may have Different Reasons but do you think this trend is going to continue . Are we going to have a low. No i think the consultants will get bored and they will look newsom where he crushed it, its just going to benefit my enemy. No matter what they still get paid and they dont get bored of money, so yeah. Ill answer, i think if we can make some sensible reform you decrease a reform. And if we dont do that, the collective mind as a memory of sorts. And swaoel see if we see in 12 to 13 years. And somebody will say we should have solved this problem last time. Given the skepticism about public official, government, political process that exist at such a high level right now, the willingness to break any rule, any law to be satisfied, i think this will continue. I think it will because it is a way of venting and i dont think, a lot of logic goes into that. Its building a need to make things right that is so wrong. So sing as long as were in this period, it will continue. Any kind of changes and i think changes are hard to make in this period too. Jamarah. I already said yes. You already said yes. No for one, it start today slip from 2012, to 2011, now it seems less recalls nationwide. 2018, there were none in california that was first time. So i dont know that its really on that rise except for what happened through covid a lot of anger. But on the other hand, i think it will go up, not so much because its canteen manager, just the ease of it, thats been a major role in the recall, easier to get things on the ballot and organize people. And easier to get people upset, just social media, all of that has made it simpler process that not going to be affected by small or even large changes to the law except malfeasence stand art. Theyre here to stay because people have that option. Okay, we have three minutes my final thoughts, i dont have anymore questions, anything you want to share before we end. Ill volunteer the Constitution Center resource to help senator newman draft what we discussed. I also agree with point strike while the iron is hot. And im concerned that there is a paralysis of choice. There is a number of recall measures that have been floating from last year or so. And because there is one or two none of them are going to gather consensus for a majority. So the if the senator is able to build his flag on one thing, i would be happy to be part of that. Ill take you up on that offer. What is the worse that can happen, i will get recalled. I will defend you in public. Thank you. Any final thoughts, thank you all very much on behalf of the Bar Association of San Francisco. Youve been amazing so many different perspective and very deep back grounds and various for Different Reasons and it did make for a very rich qualificationer. I think weve educated a lot of people on how this, how this works a lot of us dont understand it, we just see it pop up on a ballot. And we truly appreciate you all and thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you to all of our guests who listened to this conversation this evening. Have a good evening. Bye. Good afternoon, everyone. Happy monday that was funny. Im San Francisco mayor london breed. Its great to be here with each and every one of you to talk about exciting programs that we