but i'd like to say i prefer the 20 percent to the corridor it's not that long to the 3 hundred foot which i think is a little bit arbitrary. >> i have a number of concerns and i agree with commissioner. we've seen a lot of projects that come before us and staff has gone ahead and shown us the former retail that are there on a particular they're considered these days formal retail. and other concerns we're trying to institute this restriction on parking and even though most of the front age someone wants to build a garbage and i think it should be one to one i don't think that to 75 is unrealistic here. you're a long ways and it's nice to walk to many things. it takes quite a while to get across the city and it's not unrealistic. the other part of it is only allowing nonprofit on the second floor what it is it a non-profit are are that is it some kind of restriction on who you allow think the second floor >> i'm sorry could you repeat that question? >> i maybe confused with fillmore but. >> filling tropic and a i'm not sure why that's in there. at any time important to keep a housing unit up there or, you know, if a use is proposed there would be a business up there. certainly i could see it come before the commission perhaps but to certainly give preference from one business above another business he did it's non-profit they still pays salaries. beyond that part. those are my main problems and, of course, i don't like the idea of looking at formula retail. i think the whole strip should have the formulas for retail. it's not easy to get the votes before the commission. i don't like retaining trade. i think people should like to compete. those are my problems with the legislation >> i'll offer my comments and i want to be careful not to unreveal what's before us. i don't think that every district should a have a citywide but maybe we should keep our decisions about how we approach city to citywide. i like the commissioners idea of exploring the 20 percent over a district or area is the right way to do that. vacancies formerly retail i think that we in some cases allow for a grocery store and other cases we don't want it but i want to discuss that further. and so far as mimicking the upper market i think this is a good way to control that >> and i'd like to give this a little bit of time so we know the folks answer. >> i'm pretty much supportive but i haven't thought enough about the 20 percent vs. 3 hundred and 20 done by retailers. i don't think that what is necessarily what is being proposed is the necessary process. i want to look at how one would define necessary. i think that would be an interesting experience. i'm not seeing we'll get 1 hundred percent agreement but i think we should look at this. obviously there's going to be folks against and for retail. if we could think carefully b.a. about what purposes it should serve. i don't personally like the clustering. we have the safe ways because it works in that location bun on listening did care street it would be a good outline. i actually support staffs remedies and willing to explore the other ideas. commissioner wu. >> yeah. if staff could say a little bit about how similar those two districts are. >> the question is are we taking a tool that was taken for upper market or what thoughts are the needs. >> we proposed it as an alternative which is too restriction active. but the two different between the two locations one district is fairly built out but most of the lots are filled so i don't think that it's inappropriate for that regional it was devised for upper market. just not to have the prelitigation of the retail >> i do prefer that the 20 percent is too restriction active. maybe there's a magic number. we have to do the research. otherwise it's a restrict active ban >> i'd like to remind myself with the district is a much younger neighborhood which came absolutely from no where to somewhere when streets neat the modification that changed the character of what was possible there and to protect it to the amendments from staff is the correct way to protect this and i find it difficult to compare at this moment to the buildings on upper market. so scaling it to the 3 hundred block size is only 2 hundred and 80 feet facing the area. so every one and half blocks you'd have the possibility of seeing the form scale and probation officer that would be very sensitive to the size of the adjoining neighborhood and what's happening along the corridors. i want it's a good recommendation for us. that doesn't mean 110 north as the city becomes important astute that there would be a particular pilot projects. i think at this moment it is somewhat premature and i'd like to go with the neighborhood as described here and secure whatever this chapters this corridor has to go through. i want to make a motion we adopt this as proposed by staff >> yes. >> director. >> john thank you. i just want to mention and reinforce the point of looking at citywide. as president fong we're not looking to have is a uniform approach across the city but for a number of reasons there are a lot of us wanting to look at the retail formula. we wanted to take a step back and look at the formulas in general without moving forward on this recommendation. maybe the commission and the staff can take some consider because of upper market but there's a lot of interest in former retail. we're happy to look at the 20 percent as part of this discussion. that could lead to one or two blocks that have nothing but formula retail. we need to look at that. >> may i add my comments while i think the commission is a smart man that's one solution but i'd like to explore other things. >> commissioner. >> yeah. i'm not quite sure what the formula is to have a neighborhood become vibrant. i went when i was in dental school the entire district and district 2 and part of district 5 there was no retail at all no street light it's completely transformed it's and part of district and fillmore and a lot of retail in there and it's true of union street and they've all been successful. so to allow formula retail to go into a district it would kill the area that's not true. the voters passed prop and it's fine to have this go through the commission additional that should be enough i won't be supporting this legislation. i don't think you can legality success. sometimes you can kill a neighborhood who folks have to leave the neighborhood to get services >> i want to clarify i think i'll try to do the same thing set a bar higher for retailer. i think the 3 hundred feet s we don't know if that's the right figure. i don't want opinions about the corridor but there's a walgreens on farrell and it's a little less concentrated retail on the upper part where people and neighbors and businesses might be open to a formula retail because it's not as vibrant. so and i know it's only a recommendation for staff but to it maybe an inappropriate spotlight then less down by hate street. it just kind of gives an incentive so if you're going to put a formula in the retail store like starbuck's you'll have to recommended no on that because that block has a retail store it's all formula retailers. but it's a little bit awkward. but i think we're all trying to set a higher bar. >> commissioner. >> i think i'm going to ask the director how can we do this kind of analysis to direct them to think about what used to go together. i think the good thing about the tool of 20 percent of 3 hundred feet it's clear to the community and public but is there a way to do this more nuance kind of study or put it in the code to direct that study? >> the answer is yes but we would like to look at the tools we have available to us how we might be able to do that and look at the tools to come up with a menu. >> the original proposal included a total band; is that correct. >> no, it didn't address it at all. >> how did it come in. >> it was introduced in february. >> the comment was you felt the total ban was not consecutive. >> it was too restrictive. we can take the supermarket friends in hate valley he there's a large retail space that was sitting vacant. sometimes, the formula retail there's a neighborhood that likes it whole foods people seems to be okay with that going in at florence and market but there's a formula that staff can't make the commission can take a look. >> it would be easier if it was a total ban; right? and a yes. very effective. >> ms. rogers. >> thank you. i appreciate the fact that the commission is wrestling with this issue and some of the members of the public. i think it's a weight i didn't needy thing. i want to add a little bit of a discussion about objective activity vs. discretionary decisions. i think we as a department believes that quantifytion and quality has a place. we're comfortable counting concentration but we're comfortable suggesting thank are desirable. one of the main things with this ordinance the precedent that could be discretionary to communities groups. as the planning commission our the planning body for the city and that's an important role. sooed that to merchant or community groups while it's good for us to know their positions they're not city authorized bodies and as such, they don't have any obligation to hold open meetings. we don't know if their have notified their neighbors about the decisions they've made. i think that lack of numerous requirements is lacking and not every community group has that authority. >> well state thank you. commissioner >> yeah, exactly agreed apparently another problem with the ban and the 3 hundred foot it's one size fit all considering all formula retail to be the same and all commissioners believe that neighborhoods go berg for a grocery store. many neighborhoods would like more legitimate banks and some neighborhoods have none for financial services. i think you may have some formula retail that's different from anothers and anything that fits it definition of over 3 hundred feet we're going to get a recommendation by staff. remember our decision with starbuck's the commission didn't want to go against the recommendation but those positions are bad ones. i think the voter mandated prop g for the neighborhood citywide districts is enough of a protection and it also allows sort of an overriding principle. i know we have a couple neighborhoods that have bans now by the way, they're probably lacking some services. and in the case they have not gotten lower merchandise >> i will say i can't buy fresh vegetation and that's a disappointing thing. there's one little market it's small but it the a challenge and if you want to go shop for your whole dinner that's an untint convention where the community was trying to get a grocery in there but it's challenging. times change and we were able to support of the cbs the ban we wouldn't be able to support that but it worked out to have that larger retailer. i would say there's a way to look at defining a little more definition and you can take it from other types of uses. on the types of services being offered and, you know, if it's a service people could walk to. transit first and other policies that would be a helpful guidance more so then obviously more objective >> some neighborhoods have a ban on - >> no, just plain formula retail. >> how many neighborhoods have formula retails? >> i would guess all of them. i don't understand your question >> the formula retail only applies to certain cd districts. >> it applies for all cd districts. the upper market is a policy that's not in the code >>right. >> there's about 29 individually named commercial districts and there are 3, you know, general ones and c, d, and - >> out of all of those only about 3 or 34 have customized nc d formula retail lines in two neighborhoods. formula retail has a slightly different take in europe market >> and in by ordinance >> and then are there other commercial corridors that aren't nc that we should look at. in this project we had before in mission bay but there no c u process so if 43 they - are there other places like van that are >> venice are c what are is controls? >> i don't believe there's requirements for tomorrower retail. >> there are discussions about other places not justice nc district there's a discussion about the policy decision to allow it in largely because of the stores the clothing stores and so on and to have the control in the development but the development along van ness and other market areas there should be control substance ins more control on food related or drug related some have several walgreens. we want to get back you or with you >> i think it should be looking at the non-nc like the tenderloin it's more retailer than downtown. >> i agree. >> ms. rogers. >> if there's no further discussion please call the question. >> commissioners there is a motion and a second to recommend those (calling names)