Manufacturing of consent and even more concerning is that there is an over simplification of a very complex issues. One can for instance, at a human level b of b against violence and against the invasion of ukraine by russia. But if you look at it at a geopolitical level, one can see that both russia and china being surrounded by american or nato military bases. And the assertion is that the nato is a defense of alliance. But i think a brown people like libyans or syrians or iraqis, we say that this is certainly not the case. And at least for the harness. So, you know, the perspective from africa is that we want to be neutral. Is of this war doesnt mean we dont have compassion with the ukrainians or the russians, or, you know, both people are dying on both sides. Geopolitical level, one can see that the russians were backed into a corner and almost had no option. On the other hand, at the national level, one must respect the rights of the ukrainians. Like many africans struggling for self determination, you know, de colonization wasnt just the colonization or the process for self determination. So this struggle with the neo cons is also at the civilizational level, you mentioned for piano, but you didnt mention Samuel Huntington in his clash of civilizations, you know, arguing that there is no prospect for you know, anything else but liberal internationalism. But in that entire book, he doesnt mention africa as if we dont exist. And this is a serious, serious problem because we are players in the world. We do contribute resources to the Global Economy and provide services and production to the International Division of labor that exists. So this is real challenge for africa to maintain your trying to g. You mentioned the ukrainians. Try for self determination. I think it has to be respected. In fact, that russia made it flashed to respected by freeing itself from russian political influence does not have to mean prostituting the land with americans. I mean, one of the things that it is, i think a public records right now is the effort by the west to ask that its militarization of ukrainian territory. I wonder why do you think, what was the motivation behind it . Because its hard to decide, again, after having all those wars and how much they caused the american taxpayers, and how little they brought to the ordinary people in the United States and around the world. Its hard to understand why would be the so called neo con caballo, even though it was many representatives of the democratic party. Why would it persist on doing the same thing over and over and over and over again . Well, i think if you listen to people i john mearsheimer, they say that term america believes its the shining city on the hill and they have a responsibility to protect populations as well as the responsibility to promote democracy. Unfortunately, on the us of repeats this on this, this, i dont know, process in country after country because these people are simply not reflective of counties down the left with their tails between their legs and libya is a complete message was the best african country. Its an incredible catastrophe, and its the same thats happening in ukraine. Now. These were preventable chrisy crises, in 2000. I mean, last year, i mean, had the nato and the others chatted to russia and come to sort of some sort of agreement so that the russians in easton, ukraine could be protected. Ukraine could have been as professor michael hudson, who appears on your show, said it could have been a bridge and a buffer. You see zalinski now talking about neutrality. And if that proposition had been put forward between 2014 and now a lot of the problems would have been solved. So when we come to why the neocons do things neocons do things because they feel they have an obligation to the world. But they also very, very bizarre re, like the iranian, say they just doing do so that it works for the interests or what their perceived interests are. But i mean, if one just simply looks at a map of basis and massage stations, i mean that its, or its more than coincidental that russia is actually being surrounded and being targeted as an enemy. Im in the ridiculous notion that muscle systems in ruin out there to protect europe from iran. Iranian massage strikes, i mean, this is the level of deception that goes on. That said, is race is constitutive in south africa. You know, a politics. Youre not going to get around the domination, you know, by the soviets of was opec countries like ukraine, entities formative. But the, at the end of the day, we know this invasion, or whatever you from, as them you want to use for, it was a preventable, and this violence is only going to get worse. The position that puts africa in is that if this level of the stabilization goes on, africa is facing a crisis of enormous proportions there 300000000 people now at risk of hunger. I mean, this is incredible and we see the north of the us talking and europe talking about consent for africa and they want to alleviate the food crisis. But you know, its like the rank hypocrisy of this people just does not arise because at the w t o Ministerial Conference in june in geneva recently and the u. S. And you were blocking poor countries from public stockpiling or food so that they can cater for emergencies. And then when it comes into context of the ukrainian rule, theyre all supportive of the african position. They block us from storing grain, you know, so that they can make profits from higher prices, yet they pretend to care for african countries. Its ridiculous. Well, its probably because they also want to keep it for this all those green supplies. And i think this is one of the very unique features of the ukranian crisis. Is that a fully . Well, she can not only came home to roost, but it came home pretty soon and not only the poorest countries of the south that have to deal now with the rising fuel prices, but also the developing the developed world has to deal with certain insecurity. Shortage is energy high. Political as it is in the United States, i had of the, i could take only time election. I one day, if you think that the west may have miscalculated what it was getting into when it, because the size of russia is 5 this ration but also made the whole world suffer the consequences of his decision to penalize freshman overall. I think, you know, with the african position on neutrality, south africa, which is pushing neutrality very strongly. So im opposed, brick said the same thing. And it is, im a speculation on both parties parts. I think there was an under estimation where the europe could actually get united against russia under the nato bena. And we see that happening now, and i think its a serious miscalculation from the u. S. Side, but the u. S. Can afford the miscalculation, simply because it is surrounded by 2 oceans and its relatively secure. And also the proportion of expenditure by its people on food as a proportion of the income is much lower. Its 10 to 20 percent. Where is in africa, the proportion of peoples average expenditure and food is about 40 to 50 percent. So, you know, the north and no europe in america can fool the people because they saying this is putins inflation. But is it really because inflation was rising before the war . So even in very period 2020 to 2021. There was a 20 percent increase in the price of food and now its 40 percent over the amount of money that will be you in the United States. Trent, its really clear that the inflation is driven by the printing machine that is turning out, turning out money like crazy with absolutely no consideration for whats going to happen. Well, the one thing is, one can look at quantitative easing, which was necessary at the time. The problem is the distribution of the quantitative easing, which was pushed towards asset prices and the rich wrong. Most of the stock market and bonds. It wasnt distributed to the people, i think q e was absolutely necessary to forestall or global crisis. That was caused essentially by u. S. That of it, of products and practices are, but there is also significant market monopolization. And so you have a few u. S. And e, u Companies DominatingInternational Trade in coffee and grains, you know, people like car deal and then you have others like monsanto and buy on fertilizers and so on. So they seemed rather the argument that we said money printing the scores, the inflation. No, its also monopolization, as well as a ranch interests and people who are simply taking advantage of the crisis so that they can raise prices. And this is very indicative of the problem of rising inequality. I mean, its shows that the Economic System pushed forward by the e u and the u. S. Which is basically neoconservatism plus neoliberalism. Chose that they really dont care about their own people. Actually, they could not care less about the impact on their people. And we wait for our activists and progressive friends in the north to actually start having discussions in our inequality is called for class. But why cant we say that theres a class war going on here . Well, well, we will talk more about that after a short break, but they can be, ah, we have to take it. Well be back in just a few moments session. Ah, how what weve got to do is identify the threats that we have. Its crazy, even foundation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. Development. The only personally im going to resist, i dont see how that strategy will be successfully, very difficult time. Time to sit down and talk with look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. We should be very careful about Artificial Intelligence at that point obviously is too great trust, rather than fear. I would like to take on various jobs with Artificial Intelligence. Real, somebody with a robot must protect its own existence with a welcome back to work with a researcher for the South African chapter. Hold the southern and east African Trade Institute react before the break. We were discussing the implications of this conflict. The, as well as the globalized economic and critical system for russia, for europe, for the United States. Now lets turn our attention to africa and i recently came across a great quote from a q one this made year in play, right. And boys and the, the 1st off the heroine, a recipient of noble prize in literature was said that a tiger does no child is tied repute. It act. I wonder if part of the problem or part of the explanation with the math that the world is in right now, is it for you . Long, humane in countries pretended to act rather than acted and whether it be the crisis as best as it is, would force governments around the world to actually take that own decisions in the best interest of that old people. Rather than referring or diverting judgment to the so called neil li for neo clinic about that you mentioned before, i think for africans the situation is such that were in a position of great dependency. And i think russia needs to appreciate what grade dependency we are in most of all countries to, to northern countries or west and bangs private in the private sector on official loans. So the position of neutrality is very, very expensive for africa. And on a civilizational level, what we see is we see a doubling down or the u. S. In the you pushing your liberal policies, you know, saying if you bought it, we will come and invest, you know, and none of that has, is really happening. Capital flows down and even if we do get info so that we can benefit, you know, from trading. So finance and investment links, you know, it hardly ever happens because they monopolize the sector or the men monopolize the investment. So i dont see a major change coming through. And even with the exception of president burton, russia has followed a largely new liberal, even though it has changed its position on having a weaker currency. So you can encourage manufacturers and we kind of forget that everyone literally copied the american system of manufacturer manufacturers by alexander hamilton, who was then followed by frederick list and then followed by pre bolshevik russia through saturday. And for example, linen did the trans siberian hiring. You know, railway which is actually one of the communication infrastructures recommended by saturday video. And i think we need to, we will move to Something Like that where countries focus on the actual gains afraid instead of making a country 60 enough for america to invest in well. But for the 1st of all, i appreciate your deep knowledge of the russian history of it. I would also add from my side that i think russian from african countries, especially resource rich countries, share certain similarities because russia to was being used by the west that a certain point by allowing it to extract our Natural Resources in exchange for aid and developmental advice that seem to be benefactors more than theyve been a fisheries. And yet the decision point, the decision was made to cut down on external death and russia after the cost of the so we had enormous that it managed to paid all it also made certain moves in favor or sell proficiency. So, locating crucial industries within the country for the rainy, the rich, everything now has come. Dont you think that thats all for some, you know, things to at least ponder about for some of the african countries, at least as far as self sufficiency is concerned. Because i know that many of the african countries economically are very specialized them, that soon the global is the jumbo, but that leaves them out in the old one, the condemning or a major other disruption and supplies stripes. Russia has done remarkably well after the magnetic sky act and the sanctions that were imposed. You know, after that as well. Russia has certainly taken steps to improve its resilience and its productive capacity. But what we have not seen is russia sterilizing. The inflows of rovers or, you know, Foreign Exchange coming in those that are allowed, like the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund does. Because if you have too much appreciation of your currency, its going to knock your productive capacity simply because your exports are going to become too expensive. And we havent seen moves on that on russias proposal to the brakes and sharing of information like the need for tentative Credit Ratings agencies or the need for an alternative payment system. I think here african countries to learn enormous, enormous amount from russia, particularly on Credit Ratings. Agencies, and as well, i think russia to step up its support to african countries, particularly on the payment system. Because this is where the african countries are most vulnerable. You will see african countries changing text not because, you know, the soviet union didnt support african countries. You know, in the colonial, strong anti colonial struggles and all that, but because african countries are very dependent key thing here was the control the u. S. And you have over the w h o, the russian sputnik vaccine was not approved to eat. Undermined africans ability to get the Technology Transfer that russia offered so freely. And practically anyone who said that they dealt with the russians on this was that they will all fingering real hands on capacity building. And it was bo gates who stood up and said, no, we will need to have this control. You know, were not going to approve it at w h o, we not going to get funds for this kind of medicine. And this was a shortage. And then left the africans with 17 percent vaccine coverage. And then they go to the w 2. And so we are concerned about you and they block, you know, steps that we can take to be self reliant in vaccines. The situation is really, really incredulous. I mean, they left us hanging and the russians were there, but we were constrained. You seem to be using a lot of pacify language here. They left us hanging. We werent able to add. But i like to call this last statement from one of the heroes of the Indian National movement for the freedom is not given taken. Dont you think that perhaps the time has come . And its the time of a time when many governments are working very tight roads, but when they have to me decisions for that population, you perhaps disobey some of these global wisdom delivering consorts so and you know, make decisions that see that people do that. Yes, that is true, but you know, like the people say, we talk about ukrainian sovereignty and its, you know, natos open door is sovereign for ukraine to enter. You know, its a complete life yolk on say about that because they undermine african and other peoples serenity. All the time, the reaction of the u. S. 2 african neutrality on the Un Security Council decisions and in the General Assembly has been to pass and act that will monitor russian activities in africa as if they are a School Teacher who can walk around with a can eating african countries. So the scope for action for african countries is very limited. African countries need to take a position thats more cunning and focusing on the interest, but they need to be coming to do that because they will be put under. Im asked you to live or not have access to medicines or have the funding for a lot of things. So thats are saying that russia needs to understand a very precarious nature of african african countries. And i think that if russia and china can offer meaningful alternatives to african countries, we will be able to step out of the dependency, but without the u. S. But with the u. S. Pushing very strongly against africans. Now its going to get harder and harder and you will see some defections, for example, kenya stoking a strong game against russia. When its dependent on bella, luce and russia for so much of its fertilizer. Its going to face fertilizer crisis because its simply wont be able to get them on the market. Europe is going to take a 1st preference and kenya is going to be left behind. So you see this happening already, but yes, we do hope our countries will focus on national interest. I mean, put in stepped up and replaced Shock Therapy with nationalist interests. Sometimes we get worried about alexandra jogan and those kind of folks that are referred to. But we have not had our nationalist moment or put in moment way after liberation of freedom from colonial domination where we could act in the interest of all people. While the picture youre reading is really in depressive. So perhaps let me ask you 11 more question that is quite concerning, but maybe it has some hope in it as well. Many economists are warning about famine in northern and Central Africa because of the a rising fuel and grain prices. And i know that russia, for example, takes it seriously. They had the African Union visited this country just a few weeks ago, and he got the reassurances from the kremlin that russia would do Everything Possible not to subject those countries to the negative implications of the ukrainian conflict. But there are real concerns here that the west may intervene or interfere with the logistics for the sake of presenting, rushing and negative lives. I want, i want to ask you about that. Specifically, do you think theres anything that the african countries can do to make sure that these 2 opposing camps, rash on one side and the west of the other side could be brought to the humanity in delivering something as basic and something as necessary as grange to africa, do you think there is any hope of finding a compromise . They are not in the ukraine because its too hard, but at least far away in africa . Well, i like i said, the hip f chrissy of the north knows no bounds. They are shameless. Come on we, we are the largest country in the world and we, we care about humanity not only our managed but everybody else is to am entered in the dialectic of north and south. No geographic. But okay, ill say the west because because of the silent century, russias position in the west is questionable as the europeans like to keep reminding us. No, i think theres a lot of hope because im lucky, sol from senegal is meeting with president putin, i think right now. And you know, when you speak to diplomats coming out of meetings with the russians over the kremlin, you know, they say they treated us with respect. They listened attentively. They asked pertinent questions and they provided solutions and told us where the difficulties are. The primary cause of the, of the shortages is basically the shipping route and the, you know, the insurance, and im not sure the u. S. Or the e u is going to, is going to move on this. So this crisis is going to continue. But what i think the africans do appreciate is the very attentive nature and the concern outlook that the kremlin is giving. And you know, so simple, you know, the africans are saying, you know, the russians treated as decently and with respect. I mean, you know, if you go to the w t o, africans try and get some correction on the destructive subsidies, the subsidies that the you and the u. S. Gave its about 631000000. 00 a year. That basically allows european pharmacy to sell a product at the, at a price that is lower than what africans can produce. So i think on the food level and on the health level, the relations between africa and russia can be improved. But im worried about the african countries bending to the u. S. U. S. Because of the pressure of hunger and its going to be devastating for people. But i think whats coming out of the kremlin in cooperation with the African Union is a remarkable, we just need the, you and the u. S. To stop there, nonsense on sanctions and allowing shipping and insurance so that people dont die area on this very sobering, theyll be have to be there. Thank you very much for your bucks today. Much obliged, thank you for watching coke this year and get all the parts and with mm ah ah, during the 2nd world war in nazi occupied, poland valinda was a farming region. Today is part of ukraine between 1943 and 945 members of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army led by stepan. Bandera. Nasa could thousands of poles in virginia in a diabolical ethnic cleansing process. The mergers were particularly horrific and brutal villages were burned and property looted of aline, a massacre is without doubt, one of the bloodiest episodes in polish ukrainian history. Why are ukrainian politicians still reluctant to talk about these events . How to modern day ukraine and poland view . This tragedy of the past, and why does the memory of belinda still divide people ah, city looking spoke with madison both, both the models you need to do. You both got nelsons new with as also asked about the nieces and i mean youve joined the naive portfolio. Sure. New offers government performance going already. A lot of them bought a home for them was a, be la squiggly, a busy waller beneath that, mr. Levy and hes not because tanya normally mendoza with hes here with says audio visual with our district. There was the 1st phone number here a with a with a. So what weve got to do is identify the threats that we have. Its crazy confrontation, let it be an arms. Race is often very dramatic, development only personally and getting to resist. I dont see how that strategy will be successfully, very difficult time. Time to sit down and talk with ukrainian forces. Launch a fresh barrage of at least 80 devastating rockets that done. Yes. City on sunday after 5 civilians were killed by shelling there overnight. And in our run down of this top of this weeks top story. Its been 7 years since tornado spray painted this insignia. Hon of the school. It was shut down soon afterwards, tia cut loose, a convicted, neo nazi Battalion Commander who raped and tortured people in dunbar. So he could return to the conflict. So despite his criminal record with the countrys panic over russia temporarily