Well, to discuss that im now joined by souls, took a hash and professor of human rights and peace studies at a soccer job, a Queen University in japan, professor took a how sure. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Thank you very much for having. Now in mind deduction, i use this worth procrastination, which in the case of gaza has been the prevailing attitude in denying the palestinians the long promised staying. But over the last 6 months, its also been the way of stripping down of the most basic human rights of all the the right to leave. And i want to start by asking, what do you think makes it possible for israel to carry out his policies and for the rest of us to be sick and alteration by too little or no avail . Well, i mean, the problem, of course, is the decades and decades of impunity that the state of israel has enjoyed. I mean, from really, from the beginning, the early zionist, they sold a bridge. And then later on the United States on the idea of creating the jewish states. Um, you know, in the land of palestine basically uh saying that they werent going to act as an outpost of western imperialism. And so the britain did the british and then later on now we see the United States, of course, you know, they basically they, they bought it, they basically agreed to act as the protector and, and, uh, you know, to basically, to, to, um, facilitate and allow. And to be complicit and anything and everything is real good. So thats basically what were seeing. I mean that its, you know, this is where we are. I mean, its been going on really for, really for over a 100 years and actual fact. Absolutely. But in one of your articles, he also sent johnston, this carnage in gaza may mark the end of this western allowed world order western imperialism based on the rules that are compulsory for the most, but known binding for the west itself. Now this is not the 1st time weve encountered the definitely consequences of western policy of western patronage, as in the case with israel. What makes the Current Situation in gaza so much different from what we saw before. And ive gotten us down in iraq in this area and lived in many other places. Well, i mean, like you say west or is a bach receives hardly new and these kind of double standards have been really, really blatant. I mean, certainly, you know, ever since, since the ukraine as well, i mean, its been so so blatant and so in your face that it really has been getting a, you know, a, its been getting intolerable. I think, to the, to the people of the world. But i think whats happened now is were just, you know, the scales have tipped basically. I mean its a cumulative effect, but whats happening now in gaza is so outrages. And so clearly a genocide, its a textbook case of genocide is one of my former colleagues and many scholars have called it and yet we see, you know, full throttle support uh by the United States and by many of the European Countries for israel, its only yours only very, very recently, since and after so huge amounts of public outreach. And after the killing of a, of a few european aid workers, its only now is that finally were getting to suggest a little bit tiny bit of maybe theres a little bit of pushback from the United States and basically your opinions. But most people in the world have basically had enough, and thats what weve been saying. Weve been seeing this huge outpouring of support for the past and people solidarity. And of course in response to clamped or an attempted clamp down on the part of a lot of European Countries to try to prohibit a showing solidarity for palestine to, you know, outlaw band, these protest. I mean, its been really a racist, but its just the thing is its impossible to hide these kind of thing to anybody with a phone. No. Can see it can see whats going on. They can, you know, theyre, theyre, there have been faced with these video clips of, you know, this genocide of the knowing about abuses and being able to do something about those. Um pieces are 2 very different things. I heard you say that the western attitude has truly been rules for the not for me. And i think youre totally speaking here about being trashed west and the leads who been meaning died populations fables about how glorious and democratic systems are without actually giving the people any ability to influence Foreign Policy decisions. And yet we are in a major electro here in both in the United States. I mean, the european union. Do you think this time around ordinary europeans will be able to a fact the situation in any way through the boats . Well, i think they already are. I mean the europeans and its, but, you know, in particular the americans, you know, we look and see whats the, the basically, the main reason the biden is slowly and slightly had been changing his to is because hes seeing that, you know, his full throttle support of his rarely genocide is losing him. Votes, it could potentially because that means that he can potentially, i mean, i would, i would argue its pretty clear that hes going to lose the presidency. And thats the, thats the reason that hes been changing his doing just a little bit and saying, you know, same thing, we see, and youre like, you very right. And you say its the political elite is the elite in these countries. That is, you know, has been supporting is real and is, you know, full was the lock, stock and barrel with whats been going on. But really the people are sick of it. The people have had it and theyve, you know, theyre sitting there, theyve been, theyve been sending this message to the political lead that theyve had enough. And i think it really is going to change. But professor took a hash again to play the devils advocate. Here were seeing over the last couple of years in the United States and to some extent in europe that people may elect a candidate and that they leads to despise. But the ability of that candidate to actually change the policy is very, very limited. And there was a, with a support, these are very long just to rhetorically that and huge vested interest involved. I mean, we are talking about, and many, many billions of dollars and huge. How are you know, that people do not do parts with slightly to be cynical about it, regardless of this out the range and the, regardless of the sort of subtle rhetorical changes in the american policy. Why would the powers that be in the west change anything about their behavior when they still have the largest World Military under their control, as well as the library sofa. Its a National Financial system was the answer to us here. Whats the motivation button here for them to do anything about it . Yeah, look, theres a question about the political system of, you know, pretty much all of these countries and im including my own japan. Um, the political system, you know, does not allow for the voice of the people really to be reflected. I mean, weve seen this time and time again, but um, you know, i am a, is it, it is a good as hassle or is the offensive. I tend to look at his have full and im a human rights guy and i, i think, you know, just as well when in the end i do believe that. But, and, you know, its to say that things can never change is not really true either. I mean, things can change, things do change and they can change very, very suddenly in particular, in a place like the United States. So, you know, whether its gonna take 20 years, whether its going to take 10 years, whether it could even happen next year. You know, i dont know, but for sure the writing is on the wall. I mean things are changing for sure. Now its not just this latest assault on the gas and, but i think the entire historical situation around the enclave that serves as the pay to me all 5. 00 of the Current International system which for decades lets face it institutionalized. Now just impunity, but supremacy of uh, yeah, lied override. And i think to be fair, its not just the west and the leads who have maintained and benefit from it. Its also the rest of the world that pretty much a one to along with it for whatever reasons i asked you before about the western voters. But i also want to ask you about people in other and only western countries. Do you think they may stop sitting or on the wall and um, you know, demand or a fax on change, it is not for their people and thousands of them, at least for them, for their own sake. Sure. Well, i mean, i think many of them already have, i mean, weve seen, you know, great outpourings of solidarity with palestine. You know, things slew of countries and not just predominantly muslim countries either. So, you know, people have been, you know, in, in this just didnt most of the countries which we live in, you know, its very, very difficult for the voice of the people to be reflected in actual policy. And certainly it doesnt happen immediately either. But definitely, you know, the thing is, you know, we look at even, you know, even the worst sort of dictatorships, you know, around the world and the factors, the matter is, you know, even the most, the tutorial leader cannot call the shots without, you know, completely over the they do, they can completely override the will of the people, you know, they do know that, you know, the people have to have a say. And when you have everybody with pitchforks outside, you know, trying to over the rock was drained to, you know, over throw the government, or at least, you know, sort of expressing their displeasure with whats going on. You know, they do actually have to you, they do actually have to have to change, they have to change their tune. And weve seen that over and over. Just as i said, to have the question, you mentioned the most outrageous dictators. And i think thats the tricky part of this constitution because its easy to sort of, uh, uh, put all the blame on the so called the 3rd terran governments. As many western leaders have been on to sort of pro jack the negative behavior, then they themselves practice on to somebody else. But the, in this particular case we have uh, you know, supposedly, uh, one of the strongest democracies in the middle is supported by one of the strongest democracies in the west. And the other produced as a very also project. If not to tell a tiring outcome. Do you think it may actually or the has changed the way we think about those matter . Is that because, i mean, i have, you know, my own agenda here, but i am personally sick and dont so you know, this cliche and use of democracy versus a talkers. And because i think those terms have lost, have lost the original meaning. They do not actually reflect the political realities rather than being used as a simply labels for joe political manipulation. I completely agree with you, and i think the way, the whole way that we look at governance and the whole way. I mean, and obviously im an International Lawyer. So in particular, im looking at international governments, but the whole way we look at governance and how will the people is reflected in the way things are run. You know, this really has to change and you know, im very confident it will change in what way you know, we have to see and we have to, you know, we have to be vigilant and have to make sure that its, its changed in a way which really, you know, which really forwards true democracy and not you know, democracy that is for sale, which is really what we see in most of the so called democracy. And i would add that, uh, the will, the people are in a true democracy, needs to be not only reflect in, but actually followed vickers, i think, especially in the western system. You, you, people, are people, peoples concerns are being heard in the pre Electoral Campaign and being explored it sometimes, but taking them and transforming them or putting them into an actual policies. Thats a whole new endeavor altogether. And im not sure if its actually even feasible within the current, you know, western governing systems. But lets talk about it some other time for the time being. We have to take a very short break. We will be back in just a few moments statement. The release of russian states never is as tight as im one of the most sense. Community invest ingles, all sense and the same assistance must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on russia, funding and supports the r t spoke neck, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services for the question, did you say you requested the of the welcome back to world support with sol took a high shape professor of human rights and peace studies at a soccer. Jo, a Queen University in japan. Now professor took a how she, i, youve been writing a lot about the Current International system, which despite owens a rhetorical um, plan, a plan just to equality and International Law grew out of the explicitly on a quote on predatory colonial system. And i think we both agreed that the creation of israel as a zine est with the 70 plus a year of splitting denial all of the, from the state to the palestinians is a, you know, is the very typical outcome of that system. Its not an exception, its actually being the intended outcome. And i know its a, its a question for a noble piece by price laurie and, but im going to ask it anyway. How do you think this institutionalized injustice could not be . Its not the result then it least reformed, practically reformed in many ways. Palestine is really the, the is really the mirror. I mean, it is really the embodiment of all the injustices of the international system. I mean, uh, you know, you, sir, you have a situation where you had, you know, you had People Living in a land in their country and uh, you know, the international, the so called International Community at the time. And keep in mind, of course, this is 1948 when you know, the United Nations is still very new and still very dominate it by the western countries because most of the economies are not yet become independent. They havent get one their independence. But yeah, the, so you have to, so you have the situation and, and the so called International Community, any of the time dates of the day, they walk over and basically order the policy of people to give over half of their country to these european call it us and its the steering problem is that they will get down on state. And i think at the time when this was being done, most nations actually, well, if at least including the soviet union and most of the nations believe that the International Community is going to follow on the problem is rather than, you know, procrastinating for several decades. Well, almost a century now. Yeah. Well, i mean, presumably, presumably thats what they, they thought but, you know, look at it from the, from the get go. I mean, certainly i would argue that the whole mantra of the 2 state solution is based on the, you know, this is based on the partition resolution. The 1947, and basically this is, you know, a fund, this is the fundamental injustice still so called International Community trots over and says, well, we got a great idea. Why dont you give over half of your country do these european colonizers just just because we said so, you know, the whole sort of 2 state solution mantra that you hear over and over and over repeated ad nauseum by international. You know, our so called leaders, you know, all of this is based on a fundamental injustice a and you know, and, and thats above and beyond the point the, the, the point, the fact that these really government has basically refused to, to, you know, contemplate any kind of sort of solution and just kind of to say solution. And in any case, you know, the fact that its impossible any way the whole of the westbank is colonized with these real cause. Really calling these calling colonies dotted over all over the land. So its impossible, any way, i mean, i really dont. I certainly dont know if i dont see that happen. Anything above and beyond the fact that its a completely in just solution anyway. And israel is no longer suggesting that is going after the 2 state solution. What testing israels primary motive at this time, i mean, i understand that you can get a sort of a to see through the online, but looking at the policies from the outside, what do you think theyre trying to achieve . Well, what israel has been trying to achieve what design is to have been trying to achieve since 1947 has always been clear. I mean, theres never been any doubt about this. Its been, its been, you know, we want all foot. We want to drive out all the palestinians failing that. Were going to kill them all until we managed to do that. Were going to maintain in apartheid system which maintains the dominance of the jewish people over the palestinian. Thats always been the case. And you know, some scholars have called this a slow moving genocide. You know that the objective has always been genocide. The objective has always been to drive the palestinians out. You see all this kind of talk about, you know, this is the most the right wing is really governmental in history and, you know, nothing yahoo and all this sort of political shenanigans and surrounding himself with sasha. So yeah, all of this is true, but even the fact of the matter is it is really leaders. Ive been doing this since 1948. Nothing has changed. And if the, you know, were the international, the system of International Criminal justice, you know, were this working in any way, shape or form then is really political lead. It is not just nothing yahoo and not you know, these fascist now, but its really political leaders. You know, since at the very least since 1967 would all be in the dock because they have paul further war crimes and crimes against humanity. None of this is none of this is you to a secret. All of this is out of the open. Absolutely. I am, im sure me and we both agreed that this level of impunity and the empowerment on the part of israel. What would have been impossible without the use military aid and that is diplomatic solving. But at the same time, you mentioned that uh earlier washington. And this point of time loses more than have gains from uh israel, because uh, back in the uh, forties into 8. His israel could afford to do that because the United States needed it as a, as an outpost in the region. Nowadays, the geo politics has shifted. Then i wonder if you see any potentiality or for washington, either living israel to its own devices or perhaps turning against that. Well, certainly i see that possibility. I mean, i think thats a very real possibility. And you know, its hard to imagine now when you like you said, when you look and see whats, whats happening in washington. But the fact of the matter is, you know, israel and, and another 1st person to say this, you know, israel is not a strategic asset. To the United States, im not even sure it ever was, you know, but right now israel is a strategic liability and thats, you know, thats very, very clear. You know, people say, oh yeah, uh, you know, is realize are only the americans pro is really americans. I always realize are only ally in the least. Well, the United States didnt have any enemies in them, at least until, until is real. D as rallies and designing this organizations of pro is rarely organizations and it supports and it has, you know, it has this network with, in the United States and it, a lot of the European Countries, the things they see the writing on the wall. Thats why they are reacting in such a violent way. The, im not argue, im not even talking about the violence of massacres and gaza and talking about, you know, within these western countries. You know, if you look at this, this furthering of the, of, of this, of this notion that, you know, any kind of criticism or the state of israel is anti semitic and therefore must be stamped out. Must be prohibited and outlawed that. Any kind of, you know, joining of the boy called of this, of israel is anti semitic and should be, you know, against the law. You know, theres, theyve been going crazy with this, you know, over the past years. And they do this because they see the writing on the wall. You know, i, i, i went as a, when i was a young when i was younger. I lived in the United States as, of course, obvious, from accent. And, you know, when i was growing up the notion that in american universities, there would be anti, you know, is really a parted week and there with the, with easy demonstrations against ignited cit, the american ally of these are doing just inconceivable. And now they have this, you know, they have these demonstrations that have these, they have these events to all throughout the United States. And thats why these relays had been reacting so violently. Thats why the zionist organizations have been, you know, threatening to cut the funding to these universities and all these kind of things. So they see, you know, thats why they, thats why theyve been reacting in this way because they see that theyre losing the. Now i dont want to do railer and discussion too much, so im going to pause only one question about it, but uh, you mentioned to ukraine before. And when we look at how the ukrainian uh, problem sort of was created, i think there are lots of similarities with israel, the patronage system and the ukraine. Sort of reaching out for military aid, you know, the far right or fascist to choose the idea that the United States would have an outpost that it can fully control in the, in a strategic part of the world as well as this outcome of the strategic alice post now trying to sort of rack the dog the, if you understand what i mean, do you see any similarities here . Do you think in strategy terms, its a similar scenario of reaching out for, you know, for the patronage, all of the greatest power of the greatest policeman in the world, and then trying to manipulate it to its own ins. Well, i think, you know, i think pretty much all governments try to manipulate the stronger the stronger governments. And of course, the americans are the ones that are most open to manipulation. But certainly theres a lot of imperial overreach on the part of the United States. And certainly thats, you know, thats part and parcel of all these problems. I knew that includes the ukraine. Of course that includes whats going on in palestine and all throughout, you know, all throughout the world. Basically, you know, we have this country which has military bases, military presences. And last i checked this and with a 160 countries, something really a range. Its the same time, not providing its own women with maternity leave, states paid maternity leave. Its a yeah. Or you or your health care. I mean, you know, in the fact of the matter is, you know, most americans, you know, the vast majority of americans and people who are not, you know, independently wealthy. Were not 1000000000. Heres the fact of the matters americans live in, or they live in fear of losing their job because the workers have no rights whatsoever. And you can be fired at the, you know, the, the wisdom of your boss. Um and they, they live in fear of losing their health care when the 2 are connected. Of course, because if you lose your job, you lose your healthcare. This is a disaster and theyre afraid of being, you know, were going shopping and being shot at by some crushes, im crazy. Lunatic with a gun. So, you know, this is, this is, you know, this is the situation in the United States and the thing is, many, Many American see this now they see, you know, they see that their tax dollars are going to the military industrial complex. Theyre going to, you know, their, their proxy states like israel, at the expense of the american people, they can not only see what actually still is in their own lives. The few you brought on this issue of necessities of origin, their real life and respecting those necessities because it was preparing for this interview. I discovered to my big surprise to have the being a human rights lawyer is actually a very practical profession that its not just about, you know, condemning some are still retiring the readings. Its actually about thinking through and advocating, negotiating dignified lives for the people who cannot do that on the, on their behalf. If you were representing the palestinians before, i dont know what some high authority, what kind of questions would your race, what kind of, you know, origin or real life issues that needs to be addressed for the palestinians to get there. And you to have the basic human rights to be respective and also for peace to have a lasting chance. Because i think these 2 are also very insignificant related. Sure, sure. No, they are. They are, theyre basically 2 sides of the same coin. You know, despite the fact that all these, you know, all the International Policy makers tried to disconnect the fact of his really apartheid. And the fact that is really oppression. And the constant relations policy and writes with the prospect of the political solution and just shows how, how high bankrupt through the whole system is. And fortunately, i mean look, you know, i mean, shoot me interest lawyer and every is pretty much, every single internationally recognized human right is, is of the past and people are violated. Yeah. Systematic basis every single day impulse thats, thats the, thats what it is. Thats the situation, but 1st and foremost, you know, we have to look, ive got the right of Self Determination. This is the 1st, the 1st, right, the right it, thats in the rated. And the 1st article of the 2 International Companies sent human rights. It is the, whats called sort of the platform, right . It is the right of all right, just the right to have rights to sort of, you know, paraphrase are. And its, its, you know, without Self Determination, without the ability of a people to decide on their own political system and their own political future and to manage their own resources. Then you know that any other kind of discussion of human rights is, this is going to be futile because theres just no way before and occupier or foreign colonizer is going to respect any human rights. This is not going to happen. So, you know, really, the main point here i think is the right of Self Determination. And, you know, from, you know, like i mentioned from 1947 at least, you know, many, most of the injured so called International Community, or at least the ones in power have acted like theres an exception to Self Determination of power steering exception, Self Determination. If theres any kind of good, they ever going to be any kind of lasting piece. You know, this really, you know, shoot me a human rights protection, particularly the protection of Self Determination. This really has to be at the core because otherwise, you know, were just going to see the same thing over and over. Professor took a hash or we have to live in there and spend amazing talking to you. Thank you very much for this conversation. I thank you very much. Thank you very much for sending off for those who cannot send up for themselves. Well, thank you. Thank you very much for holding and thank you for watching cold sarah again. And it was a part of the the, [000 00 00;00] the we start this out with breaking news you, ron says he is launch the retaliate tree attack against these are all by firing drones, a mess of that pockets in the country, the people on the screen. So these are all i seen desperately of running and so just to show has viewed pack them folded. These are all planes that in deceptive,