A last long director of the institute of asian and african status as most of the State University and myself. It is great to talk to her. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Now lets talk about break speakers and its a large mans because unlike its Founding Member is the new brakes participants. And i want to mention them for our audience, argentina, fmc o, p, a in chip, iran, saudi arabia and united emares, their regional rather than global powers. And the regional actors tend to be more limited conditional, circumspect in how they throw that power around, how they make decisions. What do you think its main name for the organization as it goes for very well . First of all, the brakes is still done for the zation is, but yeah thats, thats very important because its a platform and it was going to use it as a platform for discussion initially. But right now the nature of brief changed drastically. And the main idea of the cold break shouldnt between parties, but bruce parties, suppose its a calibration for the future world, as old as countries of the have a come global view and global approach. And thats a very important point that the new participants or potential participants major regional powers. So the dont need money. They dont need or just some of them do some of the are doing santa, for example. Oh yeah, but look at the saudi arabia. They need that richard nation financial recognition. They need a platform for discussion for the future. A financial 3 Corporation Banking called duration. So the ready to participate in the new bridge back. So its a very, very new kind of a bank and financial logistics. The is they need more reliable mckinneys vocal duration. Thats why its such and such countries developed together. Now you uh, outlined the motivation for the regional powers. But what about grace powers . Because arguably, what unites all of them just by the old cultural and social political differences, is somewhere in sea and silver and cheese a, you know, its not just an aspiration, its something that you either have or not, and its a value. Its also a liability. And not many countries have it many countries when wanted do you agree that the regional powers and disregard the more limited, then the great ones and on the great ones and now diluting the power by having to do with these regional players who may have other lines as on the side all the question is what they grief i agree, poway major by right. And well just by initial, uh, sort of for example media 3 development. But uh the main factor, how brief i was good. The effect to the World Affairs, global affairs, regional affairs. So for example, we know a lot of very greed, Financial Aid can low as far as they dont have any kind of effect to the, the world development. For example, japan or any other countries for you who speak of all the rich countries, different countries, for example, china, india, or russia, are they in general have different aspirations. But the reason one very important come on the feeling, the system is this with these patients over the present a few additional present conditions. And by that, the man, uh there was sometime in the area, right. Right. They want to the 1st of all, they want to be a very important regional bowers, but at the same time, they dont want to push forward the optimization or the world offers because regionalization and optimization. Its a different kind of yeah. Do you think the regional numbers for joining breaks now sharing dissatisfaction with us that are the western way for right . Absolutely, absolutely. Because the wants to develop the, the retail sold, the congress and the very important players in the world. First, at the same time, the simple, the nation economies, because uh for a long time, the were affected by the globalization, Global Brands and Global Financial and make it easy. But right now, the full put much more attention to the visual Development Financial uh, scientific, uh, academic educational. It says right to address. So they need much more read your support, but at the same they want to be engaged to be coming to make it. Hes so brakes and just we do just with a platform on the oldest aspirations. Ive heard somebody uh, one of the Prominent Russian observer suggests that within 6 fashion breaks has started in a franchise. And what is being distributed under these franchise is not some concrete policy, but rather a policy mode one that prioritize this, wanting to buy the old saw, prioritize this relationship relational framework over in needed disagreements. So its not only a silver and Decision Making rooted in your national interest, but also understanding that the relationship is something valuable. Do you agree with that . Uh, not really sure, stressed. Trust is much more reliable, is much more whats the difference or the difference is a great because of the to be a situation for could be and everything that was connected to the funding, yet each country tried to fight against go beat by itself and not over the coming make it easy was worked out. What was the bring to life . And it means they means that the, what is part of the menu in the race organization, there is a very high level of nice pressed and breaks, try to put for the a do over the trust just in several, the risk or several aids or is im a financial for infrastructure projects. So the connection to every country is, is connected in all the colors. So its not something new, something new, its a trust. And other important point, the point that the rigs is very flexible structure. The there is no any very uh high the different level only membership like in the show High Corporation res agents. Theres a lot of servers, old members just per piece of us see cool, but participate to being digital the different make it easy to different negotiations, but at the same time, not to put much more much attention or obligations to follow some rules so that the flexibility is very attractive that is your mention of flexibility and i think we leave in times of relational freedom. I would even say geo political permit security when many countries in which is their partners situation that we without long was strong commitments. And um, you know, the choice of partner, you know, can be today, but if could be different tomorrow. Whats the purpose then for breaks existence at all . Because you mentioned that they have trust, but there is also some predictability within the, within that structure. Oh, why would you have if you can agree, everything on the bilateral basis . What we yeah, we, uh, we used to live in the world of plus and minus all different kinds of pro western or pro eastern approach. Any use of pro russian. Thats a very, an o d d approach to the World Affairs look to the development of the brakes. Brakes was brought to life when the situation was completely different. Economic sedation and political stage of the sedation, for example, that time chain uh raise. Its a very foss, india was on the top of the development by the way, we seem for brazil this thing waiting for the south africa, but the distribution completely changes. Its not, its kind of a platform for the companies that in the state of the press the transfer and develop and its a platform for the companies that is very connected to the ag over the month for like the ration or different kind of, um, fluid increased power in this world, the one im not going to far, you mean again dont. And then the uniform, right . As a nation against is alisha. Again, you still fighting, you and the crew crushing the trade suits the world trade system. So all congress will work, for example, for the open frontiers for trade and financial uh, Oil Companies would for re open banking a configuration. Uh for the open olibo marcus. So the, uh, the lease of the move is, comes with a very different in the me solution on lasers, but at the same time as the um, the, the pry to uh, to full the same way for the open marcus in the very unstable world. Now, in one of the recent interviews he wrote about the brakes. Now having to formulate and all just the goals of the development, but the meanings of their development, then meetings and next essential categories find more profound than any practical goal. Do you think a nation so such different cultures . Background systems can ever agree on such a thing as, as the meaning of the right of all as well because we, were leaving the world that was created by the trait by the open frontiers. But its a historical, a period that we already uh, followed and right now we should understand what as the meaning of the development of our world countries and of, oh, our adverse. But each country right now has its own concept of the development chinese, russian. Even the United States, but not all countries share the same idea, so we should understand what is common for every one of us and what is different to be different. It is not a bad thing, but we should understand what re the wheeler, a friction between us. So the main idea to firmly be meetings, the main ideas. What does it mean for us, the global world . What do we want . For example, for me, it said we owe 8, see a view over the open data cation. Because if we indicated in the very highway high level, it means that we can share the same idea of the same ideals and the same for be afraid that well should be open. But we can have to keep some free shows in the political understanding that stuff and but bad things. So and no one can help our results. Im out there. I mean, if you have share common language, it is easier to have a reasonable and the reason the argument over the things that separates your executive in one of the meet you. What is the hi as to the value of the whole this world finds what is im in the inner pavement. People have been asking us for millennial. Right . So for me, its a personal human development. So everything that should be done, it should be done for the res. Oh will, will the quality of life all the uh, individuals. Well, um, interesting that here, leave me to my next question and its exactly on that subject because youre near namesake abraham maslow, an american psychologist. So for your premium to send formulates in the famous paramount of means, starting from says illogical necessities. Im going all the way to self actualization. Do you think that would be applied to collective cypress as well as nation start thinking about dont just development, you know, getting by but the meaning behind that development doesnt that signify some new level in social progress . Yes, i think so because the single, the basic meetings, the basic de monte already done. So always countries on noting the not in the but states, i mean a, there is no speculation in economics. There are different kinds of different level only development, but the listing them all countries are developed uh, in different speed pending is they have the own vision for the next developing and the for the next step. So the next step should be dumping the we, what the, what the, the, the future of the regional and come, you know, development because we have, its simple, the globalization, we have globalization. But right now we have communities issue the connections between different. So i was saying here in the form its a, i mean like there, there is and then systems the there is 2nd country that knows the way and everybody else has to sort of key to, to the needs of the enlightened one. All right . Yes. But at the same time, not too much countries, im really keen to be induced to beat me for me to come utilization means that we could connect these so which is the same time disconnecting all the ways. For example, we could not agree with the religious views, and there are a lot of friction in this way, but at the same time we can go 3 d, b 3. So what the look at the present day situation. For example, if you look 10 years ago who voted for the open front of the 3 frontier United States, lets say see, everything should be open and transparent. But right now, United States put a lot of measures against china, russia, iran. So right now sharon is voted for the open frontiers. Well, uh thats a very interesting from the cold it. Uh for a couple of minutes. We have to take a very short break, but we will be back in just a few seconds section the, [000 00 00;00] the, the, we are in the darkest, on one of the most ethnically and culturally diverse regions on the entire planet. As you make your way through the start, you will discover each region is known for its own unique arts and traditions the the welcome back to wells. Of course, with alex the must loves director of the institute of asian and African Studies at the most co State University. Mr. Muscle before the break. We started talking about the differences that exist in the world and also um, you know, potential synergies. And even without the slightest expansion of breaks the, there was a ford disagreement at the base of breaks primarily between india and china. And those 2 countries also have very different views on how the organization or how the grouping should evolve. Uh, in the future. Do you think theres differences now late to arrest or do you think they may be exploited . As the platform expands and perhaps there are some counts within it. Unfortunately, i think that its a legacy of history. So it will have gone. Theres good, dont forget some problems. So that happened in the 100 years ago, one adults and 2 years ago or so the only we all from the situation just to forget it for some periods of time. Because there are a lot of much more important steps that should be done. So thats why oldest friction for them between china and india or indian park. The stock should be a part from the more so really the hard because im in russia and china also had, i think roughly a 1000 border disappear disagreements. And yet, there was a painstaking process of addressing those. And these countries now have a very different develop relationship on what they have, lets say 20 years ago. Shouldnt be put on hold or rather what, what is in the way of india in china, you know, coming together looking at the border disputes and also looking at the, you know, all the potential benefits that them missing our, this is very of the, particularly is very the individual said, these are for somebody who speak about the rushing can you sedation or many years ago, we had a lot of problems, but look at the present day situation. But oh, problems are already regulated by agreements and 1st full by the communications rushing, share, and learning how to go behind all these problems because we have much more need for the final task. If i know goals wider, thing indian china havent arrived there yet because they also have many potential gains from right because the percent of the same place is yeah. Uh yeah, and russia each and the the have a separate. The development doesnt mean that china is much more for the lesson for the russia. They pretend to be a different kind of regional powers. So, but in the same time, if we will be able, right, know if they were delayed, always just opening up regularly. But just to forget for, for awhile some problems. It means that we could not develop the level all the economic, economic level, all the congress, your mention china, and right now its uh, advocating. Similar valerie, similar approaches to once the United States stood for like, 15 or 20 years ago, free trade. The separation of trade and politics, etc. Are you confident that the sooner or later china will not adopt not only uh, the, the values of the United States, but also its very not cold bully like style of getting what it wants. Well, no one know the future for, for sure. For the same time, we can see that the solution in china and india and in the United States for the last couple of years for sometimes for the last couple of coffee, it changes fell off slope to the economic situation. China, we can see the vehicle sign of stuck a nation is off the crisis. But anyway, its a problem. Uh, the only way how to get the read oldest problems. Just to develop much more equity for good negotiations with the neighboring countries like india. It was around the country, so the only way, how is the result of this question is a corporation. And if we can forget all these problems, i mean political progress. So hes throwing up our was, he said the only wait, how we can get 3 to all these situation. There were a couple of countries, nigeria, algeria, indonesia, that were widely expected to make it into the 1st wave of expansion. But some result there is now even the confusion that whether they wanted to or not, whether they have applied for bricks, membership and, or do you suspect any western modeling in there . Yes, i think so. I think there is a very huge, a pressure to always congress from western world because the brakes just for, for the last couple of years try to present or just to step by step to move forward. The, a new, the new world configuration. That is the old site or full rate existing blocks. And many countries of the full was a d, o would be in the flexibility. But sometimes im really afraid to meet in several camps at the same time. So at least with 10 is uh, corporation with different books called push con, freaking the from the, the good connection with, for example, United States for china to be back back yard. All these world politics. But the weight from my point of view weight briggs is much more effective for like who are the and for example, as Guy Corporation organizations because its much more flexible and soft weight of cooperation. But on the other hand, theres countries who are not yet ready on bold enough to join. Theyre still gaining all the benefits of being associated with brakes. Members on by, let charl are bases on even on their group level. What, what, what, what race could to me, to present to other congress . First of all, its a corporation in the infrastructure project, spend the 1st point, and if you, where you want to be engaged, the oldest party, the money. So these, it means that you should address to the new brakes back. Thats a east congress. Good. So i lose all of the yes. The could cooperate without a need for this sort of valuable alternative source or a friend investment. Right . Yeah, that is id, you know, the question gets a question of the expertise, if you want to develop some logistics or infrastructure or rail or, or you need a new, a new stuff. So how to, how to get this experience. So you, you should invite some one with some groups for some of the companies. So its much more attractive to do is site. The site is one organization the one platform. So its a very, 1st of all, its a regional corporation, but the leasing type is much more effective than the global ideas without the real effects. Now you mentioned the word, the expertise, and i want to rely on your african expertise to ask you particularly about nigeria. Because if i forgot the most populous country, which is now being actively of course in by washington has been in the news recently of that nature. And present, she knew who is the only african literature by then wants to meet on the sidelines of the un general assembly. This month tends to, you know, that americans dont make such overtures uh, likely or without an agenda. What do you think is the western agenda here . Well, whats your agenda agenda mean . Means a as a result for the best to the local development. But at the same time we invest the local education, who is the key, the local people in what language . Usually, what kind of textbooks and what kind of technologist. So it means that if you need to get it in the western this i, you said we with this on theres you in the future will, you will buy your supply western technologies. So and they do it its, its not just a very populated country, its according to the ivory guest on there its, its a very highly develop a country. So thats why United States straight to play a very specific role in these place. I, they, i only nigeria, or are they also hoping to use nigeria as connections within the continent to wells are then uh, and the journey is it is a jump the point to the jump in words to all the afternoon congress, whether the same time we have a lot of other players in african, for example, china, which control a lot of sports seaports all around the african sea shore. In the same time we, we can see the increasing of the russian flower, not as much as, for example, china. But at the same time, the russia complete is separate rule. For example, in b, a root culture production in the supply root cause all the green production. Its a threat to its right. So right at the same time and we did keisha, so we, in the future, well have much more important brand place in the africa. And it means that, and they do it as well as other of income congress will have much more in the choice. Now, speaking about the rest of the power next to your break searching presidency is moving to russian. You already mentioned several areas where russia could be, uh, helpful education or a cultural expertise. Are there any other areas where russia could contribute in this fair way in a mutual way to the development of breaks and its a members, right . Decided that we already spoke about that 1st of all, its a medici and a pharmaceutical, a good duration and real farm and other including tele medicine. We already have a very, very good infrastructure full of telemedicine. And we can export it at the same time. And the most important point for russian, i forget, corporation is education, be very specific erase. For example, once again, its a medicine, a root culture, and the new agreed culture of journal entry. For here well geology young and new technologies. And for example, Financial Technologies look at the do a little be leaving the russian backs of the, i mean, i think theyd be digitalization over the russian box. Maybe one of the best in the world. Well, lets pick out which i guess thats uh, the only question that have time for this past summer. Russia hosted enough for consignment as we to load them and put and send the most boys also ready to all for the african continent. The technologies of governance, and its interesting because for many in the west west, youre still associated with the wrong pub corruption. But actually if you look at the quality of Public Services in russia that it has an increased substantially. Do you think this is something that uh, rational breaks in general would be exporting, you know, new approaches to governance and new approaches to the meaning and the goals of developments . Yes, i think so each day and its not just a kind of a special thing for the local administration. Its a completely good re, uh, reconstruction, overly worried, hopefully a state state to state level thinking for example, level of effort. You and congress as well of the asian congress, the, the full was the, a dual, the school, the dependent development. So it means that the, the, the, the defense from the so well because the whole list, the states, they do more than this depends on the right to find the correct world. Yeah. But anyway, its to be independent. Its not just the how to develop economics. Its how to defend the develop your mentality. So and uh, one of the very important, a russian uh, the issue of development. Its uh, reconstruction over the mind to the uh, to the developers of brush up for the last 5 years or 10 years. Its, weve with much more attention to the National Ideas and visual values, but at the same time it stopped. It was the russian id. Its the brakes, old connections with other countries. Because when you develop your own ideas, you could be not very pleasant to all the company. So to do so to stay in your place to be at the initial ideas. Its a very important at 1st of all, its very important for the state that ministration. Yeah, and brings us back to your name, take our home uh, mass load that Old Development ultimately leads to self actualization. Both on the individual and national level. Mr. My slow, its been great pleasure talking to you. Thank you very much for the video, dynamic conversation, and thank you for watching and hope to hear again. And it was a part of the, [000 00 00;00] the, [000 00 00;00] the, [000 00 00;00] the, [000 00 00;00] the hello and welcome to cross talk. Hall things are considered. Im peter level. As