ah, cross sucking europe's choice. i'm joined by my guess. i see the 1st cost in london . he is professor of international relations at the university of east london as well as editor of the journal of balkan and near eastern studies in north florida. we have tom, we won, go. he's publisher of gold, goats and guns, blog, and newsletter, and in prague we have brad blankenship. he is a calmness at c g t. n. a freelance reporter ocean was as well as an rti contributor or a gentleman cross i girls in effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i will appreciate tom. let me go to you 1st in north florida. did i overstate my introduction that europe is consigning itself to be a regional minor regional power in a multi polar world? it's getting pretty bleak for the european future. i would say your thoughts, tom? yeah, i would agree with you on that peter. the, the issue for europe is that it's very clear that the, that russia is done with them. and that's a bigger issue. now, knowing that this, this oil price has gone into place. the, the funny part now is that, you know, the headlines are all being written that russia is going to have to cut production and this is going to hurt their money. they're, they're the bottom line above all by. and it's always framed in terms of how bad it is for russia, but nobody actually talks about whether food has actually game plan for this, whether it has now a strategic move. cuz as far as i'm concerned, after the, the recent drawn strikes inside russia. we're looking at the de facto start for a major or kinetic war, and if i'm prudent, i'm not selling oil under any circumstances to my enemies. okay, let's see. let's say in london, basically the same question here because i like how what, what tom said in the beginning of his answers that, you know, the, the, the russians have had it with the europeans. ok. but obviously in western media, it's always framed in a very the opposite way here. really? tom's absolutely. right. i mean, they need reliable partners. europe has shown itself to be unreliable, particularly in energy. we had former chance. merkel come out and basically say, yeah, the men's got processes were just deploy, they're showing their hand, they're showing their, i'm sorry, they're really gross this on it's dishonesty. the russians are done with them. ok, now the euro pass to pay the price. go ahead in london. yes, thank. i don't disagree with what i heard, especially with those who are what tom said. what i would like just give could be for packing that in the discussion with in the triangle between us, europe and russia. has really ever been you open independent political oxford in global affairs. i doubt it was always dependent on the united states 1000000 title in even the production of the year, or was pretty much a project encouraged by the united states. so this a cor call relationship between europe and the united states, very strong ally in the sense of the world. and then so what are the invest in this is always been strong. but on all the united states, those exactly united states was always the bill was fixed. hello, russia. from that project, i mentioned the 2nd to the end of the, of the, of the 2nd world war that was the united states project with russia from european past. so he got this back, it's my knowledge is correct. i think that russia despise all the prize. stop by we can start. dorothy was in russia. she never stopped talking to europe. never. that's my, that's my, my, my understanding of jason in particular now in that period in which globalization, since, as we know it seems to be at the n, or after 9, we need to fax re signer, you know, in this war you're getting way ahead of me it's on my checklist of questions, right? you're going to get great minds think alike. ok. brad basically the same question, but you know, brad, because he says that you know, russian needs to keep talking to europe. but i mean, if europe wants to control the conversation, what is the point of having a conversation? ok, i mean, it has to be a 2 way street. it's not that way. right now. i don't think it's going to be that way for a very, very long time. go ahead, brad. you know, i can see that that's true because, you know, i think that there is it, there is this kind of been a desire from people within europe to be politically economists, even though their entire political system do the you is been beholden to. the united states, but at the same time, the politicians here lack the courage to stand up to washington even though they know that washington is undermining their interests. but ironically, the same time, these politicians, these pro, you pro western politicians that are putting your down this path. they don't really have any leverage here. i mean, there's kind of this running joke now in europe that we're going to be, you know, like a summer holiday destination for the chinese in the americans because of the industry here is going to be completely got it. and without cheap russian energy industry in central europe in germany is completely screwed. i mean, you know, when, when you look at central banks all over the world use energy, you use energy usage as a primary predictor of economic growth. and we've seen that that, that the demand for energy is gone down. and the same time you politicians are saying, this is a positive thing that we're, you know, building up our gas supplies, in case russia hall, the flow of energy to euro. but that's a bad thing. that means that economic growth here is going to go down. that means we're going to be in a recession for years, if not decades, potentially without, you know, cheap brush energy that we can use for industry here. and i don't see that these politicians have any leverage, and i think that this is going to usher in just the industrialization of europe as a result. well, again, you have great minds think alike that was going to be my question for tom, is this, is this a an intentional plan to de, industrialize europe on the part of the americans? tom, i don't think it's the americans solely. that's doing this. this is the, this is the great heresy. on my part, i'm sorry, as an american, i see the old colonial hand of europe desperately trying to hold sway over the way they run. they use us as the tip of the sphere. i really think that this whole thing is ideologically driven by the europeans. they're the ones out there screaming about european values and democracy. we have to save democracy by destroying it and all the rest of that. if you look at people like bonder land, michelle and burrell and the rest of them, they're all idealogues for this thing. and the americans are simply their cynical ground troops. and, and that's the way i see this, and i, and it's almost impossible to get me off of this point. despite that, it's very important that we stop just framing all of this is all work is evil americans pushing it? well, i mean, what it's for us. absolutely. this is important in europe is absolutely their, their last step with the european, i mean, they want this more as much as everybody else. okay. who blew up the pipelines then sealants. okay. i mean, obviously the us benefited greatly from that at the cost for germans and the cost of the europeans would go to go to my guess. we didn't hang on armand's, we're tom. even the germans went along with it, but it's a german group. wants to do it. let me go get my guest in london and basil. it's what do you think about that? because it gave the americans enormous leverage. but having those, having those pipelines blow up, go ahead in london to actually move very of this world to the united states because it's increases on your blog compete and germany from, from, from russia and oil and gas as well. by the same time, the united states american protection sell from innovation and subsidizes, it's called making its companies more competitive. witness, they 430000000000 faces reduction. i mean, united states is very much a consensus. always was to be seen gauge european energy policy from from rash circle every european bio exposed to berlin g, which is not even enough. that's why that's why russian government continue continue to be fund. although they kept it now, they want to cover the price. but even this is not, not, i don't want to miss later on. and russia has many alternatives that but my initial point, i think we should be taken on board. why? because it depends on what kinds of solution we want on here for that. what do you want an american solution? what do you want a solution which is marked by the found by europeans and russians, and chinese is you want a european radio solution or in america so. so that's the key question. right? that's a very interesting question. we'd like to feel that go ahead. yeah, i mean, you know, i think that we know the question of whether or not the europeans or the americans or whoever is running to show it, it's for sure. the americans, i mean, you know, that's definitely true that the europeans, i mean that america is definitely a product of the colonial listening peer listening to all of these, that immersion europe better indigenous to this company here. but the, but the united states is, is the crystallization about, i mean like the nazis said that the greatest moment and in the history of white powers, the creation of united states of america. everything that is wicked about the west is, is, is ramping in washington. and the solution that they're putting forward is, is everything that. ready even dastardly about the west, that's the solution that putting forward it's domination in joe biden, gives a speech a t s m c. the new headquarters as being an added states and says that we're putting out american products. this is not just a signal to the chinese, you know, that there is a trade war against china. this is also talking about south korea, talking about japan. this is talking about europe, especially, you know, the di, industrialization of europe will benefit america with, as the other guests mentioned the, the inflation act. yeah. you know, the united states is setting themselves up to benefit greatly from the industrialization, europe and the debt. that's going to come on this continent here, even though supposedly we're lock step, supposedly we are equal partners with the americans. but that's not true. well, i mean, i saw one sided and trying on guy usa gone guys, i have to, i have to go to a break gentlemen. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on europe. joy, stay with our i when our oh thing wrong. oh, just don't hold a sheet out. this thing becomes the attitude and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. oh isn't with final devote annoying? look, we're open from home, with my words, hope they don't know gain as composers that i often see and found gas prices is stuff that's beside them or view on gas with does not confine least in the trip notice. i was generated from the politic to want to so you of this keep came out on a tv. so it was a chevrolet form with her to that is good prescription model. reason. oscar. she'll know, shepherd, god that you don't. i don't care. patricia researching revenue. even sure how to use a home or not just affiliated with oh, welcome back. across stock were all things are considered on peter lavelle to remind you were discussing europe's choice with here let's go back to common north florida. it's already been brought up in this program. i think it's really worth talking about more is a we experiencing the end of globalization as we've understood it for the last half century. because it seems to me that with this gambit that the u. s. is a playing visa v, russia and using the proxy war and kit in ukraine is that the us wants to go on and its own controlled globalization, which you would be part of it. they'll be other globalization of china. we can talk about as well. it seems to me that there is a parting of the waters as it were. go ahead. tom and north florida. i agree with all that. i also think, oh, most of it i, when i really think is going on here, don't get me wrong. i'm not trying to absolve the americans for their part in what's happening out here. it's clear that that's what's going on. i just don't want anybody to, to think that europe didn't make a conscious choice here. that these, that the perceived weakness of european leaders is as being subordinate or vassals to the eyes. it's, it is just nonsense. it doesn't, it's not real. so when you look at what's happening, but i think is happening is very clearly that there are forces within the united states or that are working to try and save what's left of what's been hollowed out over here. while others are still trying to sell it out, i think the by the ministration is trying to sell it out. i think we're, we've seen a push by the federal reserve in the near san and new york money center banks in order to stop that process. really somewhat and we see with the end of globalization, it was the clear end of the dollar reserve standard on the horizon. there is a breaking of the system and europe is going to be left in the dust and it's in geo politics. arono allies are only interest and as far as i'm concerned, you install a fungus like biden, for the purposes of doing, of tax normalization with europe. so you're ruinous tax policy energy policy that's in st. lockstep with cop 27 and all that stuff. like at the end of the day, i don't see the biden administration is working for the united states. and i think this is part of the, the real disconnect here. and that's the issue for me and the, and i see all of these, these, these things happening. i don't disagree with that, but the yes, on the big trend, just don't think that the americans are the sole evil empire here. i think that's a very, that's a very dangerous narrative and letting the europeans off the hook for their complicity in this because they want to do this. the destruction, the middle class in europe is not a bug. it's not a bug free by the americans. it's a feature of what, what europe wants to do to transform itself into the next version of the ussr, because that's what the ears becoming. well, i mean, democratic poet, bureau ed, i know, but absolutely, i absolutely agree with that here. but one thing if i go back to our guests in london, mean there's one commonality here and we know who, who is a top of the totem pole. we can all discuss that until are all blue in the face. but they do have one thing in common is ideology. they're all ideologically possessed. is neil liberal ideology. that is one thing that they all have in common here. and it's disastrous for middle class is all across the western world. go ahead in london. ok. yes. a i, i can say i disagree with who are the head, but he said it's important that we get our priority right. who raised the dominant howard today in the global system in the west european union or the united states? european union does not even qualify to be called the state is not, doesn't have federal sector, has some, some primitive federal structures, but it doesn't have a few, some unity, there is no, even a union of the banking sector. after the massive or biking crisis. we have the leaders in crisis, so you'll be in unit can be very well defined, us an international organization or should be more tight on the, on the nation. so we don't, we don't deal here with unified actor. that should be taken a while. that's so crucial, it is so, so crucial to understand that nathan, being institutionalized the dependency of europe for the united states, the boys hear their voice. the peons have is pretty much a boys of the elite of european businesses that is with the lives of united states business in person. also they can work on security security medicines. so do not be surprised if i tell you that so many splits that are within the european parliament, european commission. and so, and there is no one boards. that's why keep say, keep talking to the europeans. if you don't want to play the u. s. game of excluding russia from european offense, russia should not be excluding from, well, ok, but let's see, let's say, you know, who is excluding home here in europe. it is excluding russia. ok. not the other way around. ok. i and, and, and it came to a finer point here. as you've already said, this program, russian energy is still going to europe. ok. they didn't cut it off. it's a europeans that are cutting off russian energy. let me go to brian. you may go to brad in prague here. you know, one of the things that we're hearing is that the, the, the americans want the europeans to go along with their policies against china. that's not going to go down very well in europe. brad. yeah, i've actually just wrote a piece about this and in fact, you know, you'd bind people like just the bro even have the courage to say that european countries don't want to have to choose between beijing and washington. and that's because it's just in their plain self interest. i mean, but it paging the china has a lot to offer the european union trying to consumer market within the next decade will be bigger than united states. and they are hungry for european goods. i mean, as long as those guys are cheap and not, you know, completely screwed on price because irrational energy is not accessible to the market of course. but, you know, there's, there's a lot of fruitful cooperation there. and i think there's a lot of nato allies not locked up on this. i think i would like to come with the other get. so i think that we also definitely have to be very crystal clear that europe is budding out russia, but that is to be had to be american. i mean, they have tens of thousands of troops here. they spy on european politics, and these are demonstrated will fax. we know that you can you walk out your door here in europe and you see it, they are colonizing europe. europe is a vassal state. the united states, the you, it's not a country. this is disjointed, countries that are being forced against each other. and i just as you know, the globalization has created a natural relationship between russia and that you integrating both of these economies. i think that there is a natural relationship between the russian people and people in europe. here, there is a natural political relationship just as globalization has been fruitful for both sides in russian energy creating europe's industrial base. i believe that the russian people are inextricably connected to people here in europe, not least because they are european of course, you know, i think that we have to be clear that it's washington doing this. and i think that russia should continue to engage in europe because russia needs to be a political actor in europe. and that's also because the united it part of its grand strategy is to force it to compete with china by pushing it out of europe, forcing it to be an asian power enforcing china and russia to compete against each other. perhaps breaking their strategic cooperation, which would be detrimental to the world. the strategic cooperation between russian china is so important in keeping this multi pearl polar world, emerging multiple world ordered together one that is against american hedge money. and that is so important. okay, tom. yeah, i saw you nodding your head there you are in agreement. go ahead tom. i agree that i agree that russia and china need to be than they need the same walks up with one another and and in no way did anything. brad just say, tells me that, that that's not going to happen. what they just like moved to strategic palmer's across to each other's air basis for hi say nothing the u. s. is doing is stopping it. they're trying desperately to drive a wedge. that's what follows the going to taiwan was about what the chips act was about, and i get that. but understand that you listen, sitting in prague, you cannot see what's happening here in the united states, which is our institutions are being destroyed from within, from foreign powers. and it's very obvious, none of these people work for the united states. they are all trying to normalize our or even make worse, our ability to handle capital and make it handle capital worse than they already handle it in europe. ok, because capital flows were capital was treated best. and right now it's still treated best. buy the united states. 21 percent corporate tax rate versus a 20 percent 26 percent. france they want but buying wants to raise it to $28.00. now, why would he want to do that if he's actually acting in the americans, are american interest? he's not. ok, none of this is about keeping the right nice states alive. this is about this, this is, am i literally breaking up the and i sits in too many people are actually going to tear this and this is go and this is a bad idea. not that i'm a huge fan of the united states in any way, manner, shape or form. but all of these things are being driven, as peter mentioned, as by ideologically possessed, people who believe that we can move to a different type of system. ok, and it's not necessarily just the americans driving this. there are it, is it, it is at the end of the day whether we are going to have public formation of happ, public capital formation or private capital formation. and there are forces within the u. s. that still believe in private capital formation and the people at the top of our political system are aligned with europe that we need to have public capital formation. the end of sent the, the end of commercial banking, the end of all of that stuff. and this is all the text of what's going on with the, with the, the situation in ukraine and how it's being handled. but the don't kid yourself in any way, manner, shape or form. this is about the destruction of the united states. and everybody thinks that that will be a great thing. i got news for you at the united states falls apart. and in the worst way imaginable, no one is going to be happy about the results. nobody. well, the russians are pans 9. ok because of as you take the do you think the end of the ussr was ugly? you just wait to see what happens. dad says, well if it goes down it's going to take a good part of the world with it. there's no doubt about that. ok, because he lives in london kick in the european union survive because you know what, you know, people talk about getting through this winter. ok. they're going to get through this winter. it will be uncomfortable, but they will. but what about the next 5 winters? that's where the real challenges go ahead in london. either i can predict the future. it will be tough for everybody. again, you have to realize i didn't, i think the people a few of understand it is what is wrong. so you appear russian relationship go back to normal as it was, the thing was, it was in the face of germany to blow up if i thought, i think it was an english united states, the pipeline is the northern steam and so on. there were these, i hear the and german function, and this is what we like, says one stop the europeans know the elite, you know very well. but when they speak, they speak with american language. that's my point. there is not political unity. if you do have any dependent for it or snoop, the shape, or sex, and he's up to russia to leave her a few months to pay, you know, from a as great. i mean, 1997 been steve wrote a book. the parents of the gun says, boy, the purpose of that book was how to avoid the americans having to face the situation in which europe moscow and china will have a united grayson and i last. we have run out of time, gentlemen, but i think that's why we have the answer. that's why ukraine happened in the 1st place due to address, but we just heard in london, that's all the time we have gentlemen. many thanks, i guess in london, prague. and in north florida. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, see you next time. remember, cross talk with ah. so it's a shift with vh your dk. you were yesterday's. the joe i got on. seems like it was more than one foot 3rd. so the mean, you know, it's from this vehicle story splitter, whichever some way more just some which is the spiritual, like who wants food? actual book brazil, kashi, we me through to appreciate it, which when you walk with me it's kind of short. i was with in to near from was a digital literature. just upload plan. you were one that i see that tire size cross. sorry, it's financial wellness, which it then you will was know that the tip floor the but i thought i was on but usually 3, but they have to call up nice little for me. mind carlie community from michael up at a building. thank . yeah mm mm mm mm. ah ton welcome to worlds apart. the heroes journey, one of the most recurrent mythological themes in human history invariably brings the protagonist back to where it all began, cooling time and time again, that what had been searched for was already inside. this archetype of pattern now manifests itself in the steep rise in russia's domestic travel, as russians faced with visit restrictions in the west let to explore the reaches of their own country. thus, every journey indeed, leave home. well, to discuss that i am now joined by the dan bullet sheriff at popular travel blogger and russia self appointed ambassador for the arctic and the forest, or the study done. it's great to have you with us today. yeah, i'm glad we did. our paths crossed the eastern economic forum appears in previous years, all green, the former was attended by man international guest example. ms. francine, subordinates. yes, not so many man who has gained the number of russians in law travelling abroad is also dwindling. the contract, on the other hand, the domestic travel seems to be in the rise. now, in russia, i'm actually put in many a touring the country, even though can you think it's because they have no choice, or is there really a lot of interesting things to see in russia. shesta mom, for instance, him for michael bruce thought i believe it's what they call a silver lining close to the women. but i think it was difficult for people to view russia as a place to explore syria, mainly because international destinations clearly had services of much better quality to offer east and they were easier to get to the office just bay and you're all set a tier rusher was really behind in terms of tourist infrastructure and quality of service, a political network now that people have started traveling around russia or so i'm really happy to see that so many and they have discovery that there's so much more to it than they sold in lake my cow girls is not the only destination here in the east lot better, but this for you so much more beyond there to madison. that in fact, crossly are scarcely which is located near by cow is right in the middle of russia halfway between its western most when you mind eastern most points last year. i'm