Members of the Russian Federation, in which case, any further attacks on donuts and low guns perpetrated by ukraine. With the assistance on the United States and nato will be attacks on the Russian Federation and will obviously then be treated as acts a war. And so therefore, effectively, russia is making clear to nature that, you know, within a few days you will be in direct war with us. Is this a way you want to go . And naturally, nato is coming up with all sorts of ridiculous blustery comments sham referendum, sham referendum. Well, this is one of the issue that we realize is that nato itself had run its sham referendums and loves referendums when they work in natives favor when they dont work in native favor, then of course, then nato cries sham referendum. Open to still. Lets rule out referendums altogether. As was the case recently when sweden, finland, right, said that it was joined, be joining nato and nate to him. He is a no referendum. We dont need and hes thinking referendum. So yeah, j and george, we had to point out to our viewers that a, during the military occupation, occupations of iraq and afghanistan, they had a elections during time of war with their perfectly fine. Okay. According to nato, i janice, let me go to you and look on skinner. We very few people in the outside in the outside world get to hear people like you to on friday starts the voting process here. You folks have waited a long time for this. Go ahead. Thank you very much. No, it has been a long trip to these moments enter, as long as we wait. So suddenly its been a game and the that, you know, it just underlines all geopolitical disco crania, civil war here has been since 2014 and very much reminders also from the events in from the 2013 and 14. Ive been heard from moscow that, that this, this game asked to stop and putting, putting a median. So russian people, tourists, and, and, and russia will take no steps. And of course, its for us a great a favor. Its a new identity, each question of honor each question of the roots. And these referendum now gives to everybody to answer the real question. Do you feel to be us a russian . Do you accept us to be part of Russian Federation . And of course, the full, my georgia real world. Yes. But the most important thing is that everybody asked this question to answer. And each a big ceiling produce, which is starting now here in doing was regions which a flight for this moment, for so long and giving such a big sacrifice to get recognition from russia in fool that you are with dust. You, you belong to mother. Russia, as history has shown n is, its an act of Self Determination, which, you know, people dont like to use that term and lies. George pointed out, unless its to their advantage, the boy said they, they, i, you know, the, the way the way nato is, reacted to the, all of this gorgeous, right. These are sham referendums and all of that. But, you know, once these a mom, republics are accepted in the Russian Federation as i explicitly expect, they will be a rush at the natos. Going to have to come new. Im a moment of truth. I mean, they are involved in this conflict and it will be in if they want to continue striking these territories, they will be striking russia. So theyre upping the ante here. Theyre the ones that are escalating because i would like to go back to ancient history. There were the men sco chords and they were totally ignored. Ok, this is payback time. No bullshit in washington. Well, you not to be the devils advocate here because pretty much the entire western media is doing this bite. You know, the fact that crimea has been part of the Russian Federation since 2014 hasnt exactly stopped the ukrainians from targeting it with western supply, drones and other other weapons. And this has happened repeatedly and you know, theres has been very little response from moscow. So you know, no specific retaliation because of course that is the russian style. They dont bloss but theres bill there. Retaliation is always so measure the problem with that is the, you know, people who are trained differently and think differently in the expect immediate retaliation. And when it doesnt happen, they get emboldened and thats exactly whats been going on in the west. I mean, im not so sure that these regions joining russia, you know, tomorrow, next week, whenever its actually going to deter either key avoids western backers. I mean, we already have that deranged, british prime minister, quoting billions lines from v for vendetta and United Nation ukraine prevails. Shes, shes a caricature of herself. And yet, you know, there she is. You know, we have the u. S. Government with, you know, the president making statements and his staff, walking them back to the very next day. What he really meant is, you know, who is in charge here, whos making policy. Well, it turns out its probably that the state thats actually are being, you havent planning all of its military operations. And you know, its very difficult to figure out what with these people make may think. But if its, if the, you know, if the media leaks by their pet reporters or anything to go by, they are probably going to do some sort of hair splitting word parsing. Well, technically we dont recognize the, so theyre not really russian territory. And that means that if we give you credit, Nuclear Weapons will not really party to the war you see. And theyre just so used to manipulating reality with their words. They cant even conclude well, i mean, you have versus which thats not the case. Were going to have to see, and i think we will see a difference here in georgia because it, i mean, if russia accepts these regions is sovereign, russia, its incumbent upon them to protect them. And i think that thats the kind of escalation that were going to see. I mean, the commanding control centers in care of in western ukraine are still intact. Ok. You know, this is a kind of escalation. Im looking at george. Yes, i think so. But you boise, is that correct . That with the sensible response that we might have expected from the west and saying, look, we really dont want to go down that path is probably not something that we should expect, but they will try to escalate. And i think i present booting yes. So they made clear that, you know, if you stop attacking russian territory, this is a very big deal. And this is something that, you know, we would take very seriously. Its an existential matter for us. And, you know, we, weve reached a point where it was inevitable that we would reach this point, which is nato was going to have to ask us. So, where does it want to go . How far doesnt when hes been very queued sofa. Oh, sense a more web dont listen, some more dangerous weapons all along a range, misses awesome drone some how it says and emma emma, all rational. He mas and everything else. Oh, and hes very cute, but well still say that. Oh, its nothing to do with us. We went on enrolled in this law. Well, now its going to be forced to the situation. You take any further steps. You send me, you know, these high mas and that these high miles are going to be used to kill for women and children in done it as its happening all the time now. And then, yeah, youre going to be in will. And that will, you will be liable to retaliation from russia. So, but, so i was actually laid it down on the line for him. Yeah. Ok. Are you ready for this . Yeah, im, im, im ready for a few satellites to be destroyed in space. If you get my drift, george ok. Janice, let me ask you here because its so important to get a voice some from logans because you guys have been shut out from the western world ever since 2014. Tell us the conditions under which the referendum will be held. I mean, is it, do people feel safe . Im, theres always acts of sabotage and, and, and terrorism. This is a determined population to make it to the ballot box. No, it differs very much from in reached a place you leave hearing dont, but in other places, there are very serious threats and people are very concerned that shouldnt be croup anywhere. And they are making all these more while mobile, i wont things suit them so that they can prevent this huge wave of state terrorism. What has been in the previous weeks, what has happened here and, and certainly your officials are trying to do not to make easy to cause havoc or in the time of the referendum. Oh, it depends very much in which city you are leaving. How safe with these, the main thing, what i thing is these mobilization and the whole attitude change. What we see now hearing in dawn bus and, and we can see we can feel that the russia is bringing out the big guns. And any means that here will come command centers here will come full force of the, the war of units. The war of, of a separate Operational Forces is changing to do new scale. And when the big guns coming, it means that that certain areas where the, the core force will come, it will be very safe to be inside and protected by all possible Russian Military systems. But, but though we will, they come fast enough to secure already these pros is now which is starting already to morrow. I dont believe but, but i have seen already and discuss it about the know how, how this will be organized. And i see that all measures has been taking so that people can go white safely to go out and give their votes. And oh, so im, im quite optimistic hearing the ground. How the situ . Well, i think its very interesting how it will be played out in the dawn bass of the next few days here because its good of set a precedent. And thats what i want to talk about in the 2nd part of the program. Gentlemen, were going to go to a short break, and after that short break, well continue our discussion on the evolving situation in ukraine. Stay with architect ah ah ah ah ah, issues with industry. Im always thought can just look up some of natalie a muscle around noon. She kitty doesnt being in the green shield on at nash to me as possible. My cook gosh said get somebody to look at that to his ashley of a dc. Wanted to work with me for the wonder know, thesis, but of course jason admitted to you but not, but the key chain of times to not work for phones or Something Like that. And then well go with that. Ah, welcome back to crossing. Were all things are considered . Im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing the evolving situation in ukraine. Ah okay, lets go back to watch it in the boise. Lets talk a little bit about the partial mar mobilization here. 300000 reverse, reversed reservists are going to be called up. From what i understand from reports, its gonna take 2 or 3 months to integrate them into this special military ration. Theyre still calling it the special military operation. And looking at the referenda, how much is this going to be a demonstration effect for other parts of ukraine . Because if lugens done yet, they get out and they become part of the Russian Federation. What kind of message that sent to other parts of ukraine that have not been all that happy under kids rule is, this is something that youre going to be watching. Go ahead. Well, it is, and unfortunately the message comes too late for her cough. But, you know, theres given the treatment at the hands of their liberators. The book is not closed on that yet. And certainly nicole live in odessa right and know what they might expect in the near future if things continue to develop like this. I mean, this is, this is one of those things of once it happened, people were going, is it really going to change anything now . And, oh, wow, its long overdue. There really wasnt, hasnt been much reaction in between the, the partial of realization. I think it is definitely going to help the manpower situation on the front line. And i think its a recognition of the fact that that the nature of the battle has changed because the bulk of the old Ukrainian Army has been wiped out and been replaced with, you know, nato mercenaries, and nato trained conscripts. And, you know, were, were seeing that play out right now. And unfortunately, you know, this war has been far, far deadlier in 6 months. Then the war that im familiar with from, you know, 25 years ago in bosnia. So my military expertise is limited in that respect, but this is definitely playing for keeps a very good point george playing for keeps. This is what this message is all about. Negative raider mobilization and people. And theres been a lot of support for a lot of people been very frustrated the slow progress of the special military operation. Now its a cant get more real here. And again, you know, as already the cities like odessa been mentioned here, it cuts both ways, doesnt it . I mean, because if they have aspirations of having a referendum while theyre still under caves, rule and they can have a very terrorizing effect on the population. So that cuts both ways that these referenda, yes it is. And thats really the problem that russia really faced ever since 2014, which is the only way that you can have a referendum in ukraine is if there are Security Forces that to ensure that people will be able to go to the polls or without getting murdered crimea remo rios from 1901 hom had really wanted out from ukraine, but were prevented from doing so because he is threatened crimea that you try to have any kind of a referendum and you will feel the full force of our armed forces. So thats why in 2014, its actually russia have to use the forces that he had in the bicycle to ensure that there actually was a proper referendum, been crying. So i think the same is going to apply it now. But for the ultimately, the issue is can ukraine continue to wage this war, the leak sand of the casualties that they have suffered . I mean, we have the estimate yesterday from the defense ministers like a short ago that they had 60000. 00 ukranian service. Men killed, that is an enormous number. And then if you add to that the wounded, then you rooted pretty much think, you know, that there really isnt much of an armed force left to continue this fight, rush of someone, much fewer casualties. And russia, obviously, is a much bigger population to draw on. So its very hard to see how the ukraine can continue this fight. Unless, of course, nato gets directly wrong. And that is really going to be the ultimate question, the biden and trust. And Sergeant Schultz are going to have to decide on the next few days, it from what ive seen in reports from the, the ukrainian military. And theyre, theyre deadly malicious. Theyre, theyre, theyre hitting civilian targets. The don baths, they because their military has spent it was destroyed during the summer and in all of us are in agreement here. Russia is fighting natal. Thats why uh, president putin said theyre fighting the collective strength of the west. And nato officially is incomplete denial. And i think all of us agree that were going to find out pretty soon how much further nato wants to get involved in this. Go ahead, janice in a, in a and well go yes. Do. The nato instructors has been here for years already. Manning, the nationalist bought volumes and, and this is nothing new, but it just has been enforced that these scale. And though we are facing nato troops, that is, that is exactly what is happening. But i would like to raise up from dish the river into question that at least we are talking above river induced, were talking about the, the principles of the you and charters. And we are talking about the real of the people. And like, i just want to compare if that fealand was just taking to nature without any referendums. And the expansion of nato has been done without a referendum whatsoever. And thats what i liked so much in this way of dealing international politics. That referendums, the wheel of the people has its like going crete . Oh wait. So did, did it really matters for the russian world and, and that makes the whole difference. Do somebody recognize to results or not . It should be for question. Well, name the dentist. They think you care of paris or london or rome, recognizes the outcome of the record you care at all . I wouldnt. Okay. I would guess. I think you care that moscow care is okay. But you know, no bullshit. I see your, your earlier points here. If youre going to bring in, these are regions into russia, you have an iron clad obligation to protect them. Okay, and i think thats what were all worried about, because nato isnt going to give up easily, no way. Okay, because if they do, it breaks. Nato. Nato will be a joke. Ok, and thats what makes a situation very, very dangerous navigation in washington. Well, its, its an exit. I mean, its become an existential fight for both sides at this point, but thats, thats the course to the collision course. Theyve been headed to for years. The, the issue i think is, as weve right, but we mentioned, i dont think very many people in russia or in the dumbass necessarily care what london or paris or washington think. And i think the thinking is the referendum isnt being held for the sake of nato or, or to us. Its being held for the sake of the rest of the world, which actually does care. And which does have standards and does have a sense of shame that has been thoroughly exterminated in the west of this point. Because, you know, for these western governments, it doesnt matter what you do, its only who you are. So they cant do anything wrong. And, you know, russians and the people in dumbass can do nothing, right . And in fact, as ive mentioned a few days to co on air, the, they treat people have dumbasses things. Theyre not even people anymore. You know, in their eyes. Its perfectly legitimate to, you know, set people in odessa protesting the newland regime on fire. But you know, god forbid that new coverage has police, you know, clubbed them. I don protesters before the violence, the overthrew him. Its the double standard, and its built into the whole i want to say system of values for lack of a better term. And which is a pure who, who morality in which the action itself doesnt matter. And this is the kind of thing that most of the rest of the world doesnt actually believe in and would like to see ended. And so i think from that perspective, having a referendum in and having, you know, russia step in to protect these people is, is sending a message to them as far as the west. I dont think at this point, theyre reachable by much in the way of messaging. Thats such a good point. I mean, its a talking to the deaf and dumb. Unfortunately, a, george nato has a big decision to make if they want to continue on this path of escalation, because its as burrell our favorite and his blog. He says its going to be settled on the battlefield. I tend to agree with him. Maybe the only thing however agree with him on and so, and we, we do know that the, with this bub greater mobilization here, were going to see more weaponry. I tend to think that the. Busy kremlin is going to make a pretty strong statement about how it feels about natos continued meddling in ukraine. Go ahead, george. I agree. And the problem with nato is that its already shaw his bowl and hes, its sent enormous amounts of hardware into the ukraine. Theres nothing in euro left over there. They can send even the United States army reserve becoming depleted. So essentially, itll be nato that will have to make a decision personal to move to a war economy to stop producing a lot more ominous. And are they going to provide the manpower because your brain doesnt have them . And so therefore, again, you know, it will be up to the nature to desire, but typically as the heading into a winter of discontent and without any energy. And its quite likely that if needed, those getting all that, oh, and energy from russia will simply because, overnight, so no later than the site is ukraine. Oh, worth it now. You know, according to were still on their lionel friends, you know that yes, of course, its all worth it. You know, does the european public, does the American Public opinion paul say differently . George. Ok. But then again, this isnt a league war. It always isnt it . Lead war. Ok. Janice, i want to go to you and i want you to tell our viewers. We have one minute left. I want you to tell us how the people in the dawn bass have suffered over the last 8 years. How many people died, how many casualties . Wilds, as the world to close its eyes to your suffering, give us a few numbers. Days of thousands of lives directly. Hundreds of thousands of rooms, massive destruct scenes restructure. Huge sacrifices in order to predict the russian world, the culture of the heritage. Now its the time to get back home and, and join the Russian Federation. That is, what is the price . What has been paid from these days . Yes. And now we also have to remember that whats going to be happening in the don bass will certainly will have a demonstration effect in other parts of ukraine. And maybe give help to Self Determination around the world. Because there are plenty of people that want it. But western powers always deny them that all the time we have gentlemen many thanks am i guess in watching budapest and in logans. And thanks to our viewers for watching us here are the see you next time. Remember, cross knuckles with the worst of jesus you did . Yes, it was just going to, we know the new them mission process. I mean just with the door. And the still not a cheat is most so must all must over was yes, but i was wondering how to go on that much enough. Please conceal must up on a thumb candle because i just want us to the, to the follow just to show us will hold the would lose a group, decides him lash. There was that only the city so really driven enough bushel is williams. Weve got, you know, when you to, you put on the really, you took a symbol and you talk a little bit in that as well. I, mr. We didnt actually we still you still hold with im not a problem with almost lost all his name is abbas novice myself and his bedrooms and confidential. Yes. Ma, through under the when youve got those ton, this will it a but i just get a moment when you are looking to ship it yourself most washington. Uh huh. Lynn mission, i am will not on the meet on. So the q video on a, to more input on the door, all of the, all to get on that yet. But actually, canadian, if a lot of the more than the thumbs obviously need to keep on muslims, your monkey mean theyre supposed to eat prospect. Youll always shock is more than they live or when you look on the blood up like a new book last year. I dont know. I dont know if, if you didnt him a bit of a mushroom positive. I told her 1st muster, but i still calmly. Oh, but i was in your leash that was just our custody. Nice, nice appendages. Guy. Oh with with been you that way . You know i should now still owe as i saw that money will because also what we should be made. Chicken Catholic Schools i had sent to chimney. If we should meet you place by middle of get to which i think you must you to have to work at while the with the, with the dish yet we brought it. Dish the dish. Dish out the what of toilet you little jared, youll luca dish. There way not on the bread, youre not sure to what so yes, because they with molest says when you live, grandma miss washes as a white girl, occlusal guards, this initiative. You should you said the was gone of the way so potentially and yet. Oh, but in theory and feature to one now to me can us now to music what you will get an it guy will show this just go over all model calling it we phrased love with video. Look when you are naturally, scott, with little bulk as well. Let us alone must really been to sit on an incomplete innovation with shalom. So been adding me to lucy to let it be log on the sheet. It is leak when where you but in a slope of the month upon which was of the muck about with the when you replace it, look, i would only a see just look like must believe, i mean, you came in the bathroom when this you got a total of angela wished emotional information on it, but almost the total sold out when you mores with them all dialed up on mr. On the what was in your over the hill in watson company, we had a conflict of the butch moore produced was to deal with a, with a position of those states to pump military equipment. In tea. A crate is cynical and it doesnt hide the fact they wanted to please. We can rush it by prolonging the commonplace rushes. Foreign minister blames the west for deliberately escalating the conflict. And you, frank, and accuses the International Community of closing their eyes to human rights violations. By it we bring you special coverage as to don bath republics and to ukrainian regions start to vote today on whether to join the Russian Federation