A dream come true. Brenda. I went to my village, my home, i cried aloud. Those who live in the house that was once mine were happy to see me. They wanted to give me a gift, but i said i wont take but give a gift. I gave money and a blessing to the children living in the house. A few villages farther also by the border stands. The rows are shut. If thou gal, the sacred islamic shine fell on the indian side when the partition line was drawn, as many feet shines ended up on the pakistani side. He or the entire willing around 80 families that came from see, are caught in pakistan have maintained the structure for 75 years like their own. And you have the whole village takes care of the dogger. We come here every day. Train it lights out, the lamp right here, across the river, robbie. The sun is setting in pakistan. Its hard to imagine that this line, this border didnt even exist 75 years ago, but the border is a reality. And despite leaving to the pain of partition many, so i was have chosen to remember the love with the pain range and sharma, arte but job. Well, energy is the word right now in the e. U at the block seemingly tying itself up in knots in an attempt to punish moscow next cross talk debates, where such as strategy could be leading ah, ah hello and welcome to cross. Well, things are considered on people well, since you started brushing special military operations, ukraine, you was tied up in knots. It declares it must be independent of Russian Energy. Well, at the same time, terrified moscow might terminate supplies altogether at any time for the e. U. Energy policy is an ideological struggle. Ah, to discuss these issues and more, im joined by my guess, George Samuel in budapest. Hes a pastor and the guy which will be found on you to the locals. And here in moscow, we have to meet bob and shes a political analyst and editor. And you know me, internet media or i generally crossed out rules and back. That means you can juggling time you want and i would appreciate it. When i start out with george in budapest, georgia, very simple question, does the, you have a coherent Energy Policy because it seems like, you know, and i dont want to use a heat metaphor, but i, well there their hair is on fire talking about how to deal with energy during the summer in the upcoming winter, they want to cut so dependence on russia, but theyre terrified as i said in my introduction that it can be shut off. I mean, what is it . Go ahead. Thats exactly right. And so we have on the one hand, also a 100 lion, you president of the commission, we said we are going to cut us off completely from russian fossil fuels and we will never be dependent on them again. And then the next day she does around the uses russia, although withholding energy supplies, you know, holding back gas, you know, and they using gas as a political weapon. So you awesome, well, do you want russian gas or dont you want russian . Yes, you can get a straight answer. I mean, depends on what time of day you ask the question and this is really low point. They have been using russia for months and months of using gas as a weapon. When the only people will be using energy as a weapon, as in the, you know, i mean the, you know what they say by russian colon pause, then they say were not going to have any russian oil in both starting in december. And then they close down the stream to before it even started a grain closing off one of its a do transport, russian gas, europe. And then we have the, you know, the, the sanctions coming from canada when a compressor that was needed repairing, sent to siemens in germany, germany sent it to canada, canada. No, were not returning it because its sanction. Busy all the issues being driven from the western end of the propaganda is that somehow in russia is using energy as a weapon. When, when did that happen . Well, a demon. I mean, the real political weapon here has been sanctions. The only thing thats really changed with russian Energy Policy be, europe, is that the russians that like us, they start charging in roubles, which it makes perfect sense because of the sanctions and the, and then those swift system, russia being shut out. I mean, if they, if they continue paying in dollars or euros, it would just be froze, it encompass dated. So i mean, thats the only significant change. And we all of the upper or over north stream one. Well its, its back in business. Ok. Most of the gas is flowing again. I mean, it doesnt really make any sense to me what they want to do, and there is no unity in the european union. So what is russia supposed to do . These of the, the, you have to deal with independent in the, in the, of the individual members of the you because the, you, as a whole, has no coherent policy. What say you the mom . Well i think sometimes you just lays all the stuff on just a very often they just use this phrase, butcher, hes using gas wiper, they dont even have that political. So people have these. Oh, terrible images. Oh wow. Wow. This is a terrible, pretty to say in your, you know, so these people dont even in the way they express themselves dissolved. But you are right about the, what i would collective incentives. The problem with you is that the song smell is a lot less ration than every member they can individual. I mean, all that most tragic, more playful, just you dont. So the, you were collecting i mean, the situation with russia is just the latest example. The experts in germany, for example, at the end of the conference. You know, he says that basically like a 100 percent dependence on russian guess, bulgaria is almost 100 percent dependence. This is india. Its done. So even if germany things to be can provide for itself who is thinking about little gary thats will make it right. The 2nd the 2nd such example is syria. Im in the and thats remember all the events develop or key. There were disturbances that were brought us in syria into 1000 do ever so instead, all either stay neutral or how been off that vision for find some need or the role solution that you can left to really support the position. And we know the result, you know, the civil war for august and years. So all the most painful way you can, you know, im terrified voice. Theres no collective though theres no solidarity here. George is in the country right now in hungry. They basically wont say it on this program bit. They went their own way. It was put it that way. George. Yeah, no, that thats right. You back last week, a foreign minister, a go, flew to moscow breaking ranks with the rest of the year and signed an agreement with russia for 700000000 metric tons of natural gas. It is a hungry needs, a gas as a well, were not sharing any of those gas with anyone with a day off to the European Commission issue, this new day of demanding the all you Member States gotta reduce a gas consumption by 15 percent of those. And that would be a process from a number of states including spain and portugal, and greece saying, well, why should we come back on our gas use . This is a german problem. It is very much of bob and boss of the way the germans do this. I mean, the germans make these Big Decisions and then they force everyone else to live with. This is, i mean, casing point is of course the, the decision of im going to market 2015 to start bringing in immigrants into europe, which everyone else or something of an obligation to say, well, have a peculiar understanding of solidarity. Dont they have it . We do it. Everybody else that is a solid arity . Yes. That yeah, exactly. And it back, it was germany that has been very dependent on russian. Yes. And then he was germany that made these extraordinary decisions like canceling the stream too at the very last moment. And this is why the europeans are now saying, you know, a well, where was germany when we needed them out of the 2008 crisis. 6 and we need a bailout, and suddenly the germans, they well, sorry, we dont have the money to bail anyone out. So now is that the europeans are supposed to. Ready bail germany as well, and also we had, over the last few days, we had threatening to shut a pipeline that was supplying europe that you know, that has been agreed to. And so, you know, again, this adds to the quandary here. I mean, russia, britons, because of energy, but its ukraine. That is reckoning to cut off Russian Energy customers in europe. So, i mean, wheres the, wheres the anger towards the ukrainians for threatening europe, Energy Security go ahead. Doesnt make any sense. Well, it makes sense. I was logically, there you go, thats made, but it may sound in the well rules for im sorry, it was what was the war just all the states opposing north jim. Bon, enrolled student to me. They said that these raj get has to do great. So the grain will get russia said, oh, you know, we are wanting to continue to supply your brain. But that just makes sense to have a battle. Now that you can, so why yes, no, no, no, no way to deal with. Now that there is basically this terrible confrontation within russia and ukraine. Your brain is charging some of these by saying that they have line what they call the occupied. So i mean, rush to gain weight even though it was doing, i think it was the you that said that you should all rely, but your goal to do is units they may explain to our audience. What does the United States up into . What is your be in energy . Can you like me . Why did the poking there begin to something that is so important . Were not talking about, you know, the size of the cato here. Were talking about people going to be warm in the winter. Youre absolutely right. United space, not and you know, but this russian drummond pipeline. I mean, what well do, id say that, oh, with oppose a pipeline from canada, United States. Oh, in fact, jill, why theyre doing, its for us, brilliant. The, you know, and he created the programs in america and had to do supplies. But we never even thought about raising any questions about pipelines between mexico and canada. United states being the right to, you know, to pronounce judgment. One rus russell gun project to impose sanctions on the companies participate in it. And before that, they worked against policy, which was basically a air supply and she asked to read and agreed to do well, in fact, part of the problem, the reason why i read crisis is going to be a voice if they had the rush or it would be so, but it was the you, the, your commission and a great a stand tonight states that basically did everything will be solid. The project never comes to the door. You know, what, i guess my question was whether the rhetorical in the United States have to do with your Energy Security. Well, its all about money. They want them to buy american energy. When you know is being fossil fuels are being attacked in the us. So theres only one outcome here, a higher, right, so the europeans. But to get up and cheat Russian Energy and paper very expensive gulf in america. Wow, thats a 1000000 move business. Go ahead and go to it in. Of course it makes the europeans very uncompetitive. I mean, youre already has problems with keeping up with east asia, but now the one thing that they had which was very reliable source of energy, russia, now theyve given that up and theyve done it on the american pressure. They call they can, ukraine has come under american pressure with the americans who press the ukraine membership into natos. The americans continue to provoke them to provoke and basically any of your bill, just a little hard. Right . Right. Really save with our ah, ah, no nation. No nation has ever done anything like it and all the history welcome back to all things are considered. Im your labelle. This is the home addition to remind you. Were discussing some real news. Oh, we go back to d. M a here in moscow. From centrally, when we look at this, a conflict in ukraine, at least for the west, a, they, they wont say it out loud, but you know, its not about freedom. Its not about to mocks, not about territorial. Thats all that we keep hearing on the airways. But its really about energy here and not fossil fuel energy. Its all about green energy. And ukraine is being used as a segue to push the transition. This is something that, you know, this is a gleeful about it. Theyre gleeful about because they dont have to bring it to their people and vote on and theyll say it just because you know, rules based order and all of this type of stuff here. But at the same time, and this is what i need to explain, theyre opening up whole mines again and are well made natural gas maybe isnt so dirty here. I mean, what are their priorities here . Because if they, on the one hand, you know, its, you know, territorial integrity. On the other hand, its agree new deal. But they keep interweaving in clashing with each other and they cant make up their mind. What is their priority . Uh huh. Well i have, i would say not the privilege but the duty. Ready to read the warning german press, im just read it so we dont have to thank you d a d b side the you know, they the right that 62 percent of the germans for the government and twice and now they watch themselves a few times a week and a for alissa. Ok. 162 percent of people already believe these crap and you know, the way the government is dealing with people in terms of why you have to read, you know that the temperature also you have to watch already. I mean that these people who use russian general story period, but we know what he told you the difference between a darian as corridor, the gm stay. Okay. No problem. Every pages on the printer, i just wanted to see how, what your cell, which is the way to go, which broke you should, you know, how did you gauge your children . So issue creation, government, you know, what, you, what the state they tell their people how, what, what is what they are. There is a very, very strange, you know, the watching but it makes is bad. Right . And its just plain and the problem with the 3030 states they use ideology against mass against mathematics. I mean, in the air force, which is a huge barrier. What management branch, one of the best deployment, garbage time woman had a, he just gave a mathematical and that is, or was germany has working medium, call a whole 20000000 of them, i guess, russian at 55 percent. How were going to do without ok. So this is a mathematical question. They would you answer what read it was for short periods of time . You know, dont use your car, dont use your i dont know what else . Yeah. Go microwave. I mean, it smacks or even worse. Well, i mean its george. I mean a, is this, i think going back to be 18 forties. I mean, im trying to understand whats going on with the world is a super can tentative police. But, and then we look at the europeans, you know, i mean what, what is it, you know, pragmatism isnt ideology. Can they marry the 2 . It seems that they, theyre, theyre pushing thing that are dis, diametrically opposed to each other. And the result is cold and lack of productivity and you know, the world passes them by and some kind of backwater and this is all done intentionally. Go ahead. Yes. Is it shortly that theres been this seamless transition from lee cove is area now to the Energy Steering . I mean its just you, you dont even notice it. So we was screaming at the anti back says the non mosque, whereas the people who were protesting against the lock down, you know, they were with them because they refused to express social solidarity. They were entirely selfish, and we were supposed to hate them. So now were rapidly going to be moving into a new era with dont want to share out the energy. I mean, im going to be really in the cross, as you know, they dont want to share out the gas, and they can design their own deals with russia. And so this is now the and that everyone with whos going to be taking showers of the too long, you know, theyre going to be the, it, i guess thats a new thing. Shower shaming is that, i mean, exactly all people, you know, what they cost, you know, more than once a month. So it was now suddenly going to be a fall in be insufficiently a guarantee, and of course will be good. So this, this isnt the how the, you know, this as the said, this kind of a j a no one ever really for the barrel with it is the same. No one really kind of a, you know, im the mental questions about i go with no one will on the mental question to one end is all is why are we making the sacrifice . No, youre just going to shop and just get with the program or else you know were going to punish you. And so yeah, like i mean, my whole taking shot too long in the shower. We had 0 with 0 cove and now we have 0 fossil fuel. Ok, niema. Let me go to you. I mean, usually when these unusual and very strident on demands of people, its during a momentary crisis. Ok moment case. You know, what i mean by that is that, you know, when the crisis will come to an end and you know, back not, this is completely open ended. You start saving 15. Youre, youre told to say 15 percent on energy towards what end. I mean it will that make the situation better how lee alleviated they dont have any answers. Theres no, theres no exit from this. It just seems its going to be akin latoria. Theyre going to be and then 40 percent and 60 percent, and the results will be the same. I dont understand what, what theyre driving at what their goal is. Go ahead. Well, the logical this, im sorry, i want to go to the area. I mean, anybody writes Something Like this. Ok, our people are terrified about to get, you know, just 90 percent. So since inside their own, the sweet while people in russia ive been through so many difficult just them march war i have sustainable. So i mean, this is difficult that they did it with the 80 me is so strong and you me a can make any center crisis. That means that you should be made in 2nd crisis. Ok. 15 percent less. Todays going to percent less. The moral, dont ask why . Well, if you ask us why it was a, you know, if you asked us, why did we support when you greenwich started before being in 2014 . Dont expect us from us 1st. These were, are the people, you know, we have to see places change. So were not responsible. These people did. They didnt, theyre back. Im in a, their old age and nice, nice, nice groups. You know, i dont ask any questions that ask a question. And you know, via and also what is very important to that is you always require crisis. And 2nd, at that it is, you always intimidate, you will all die from. There will be an alignment. If you dont listen to us and if you dont wash with cold water glam, it will collapse. You know, so basically let me remind you of how people are basically broaden germans into into was you said that we have not enough space off. Let us wrong, if we dont expand into years, were all going to die. And that was a lie because germans on a much more energy off of the world, war 2, created a sustainable economy which fed not only them, but a segue is perfectly the last question i have for george here, youre right. We have the german economic miracle because there was cheap soviet then that later, russian gas. So, george, you know, on a global scale here, the global south is saying, you know, the europeans got really rich because they had access to very cheap fossil fuels, primarily oil and gas. So now theyre looking, theyre stepping up and say, our turn we would like that energy to do exactly what the europeans had and what they are they willing to give up . But well make it in line. Well take it. Thats exactly whats happening. Yes, yes. But the strange thing is that the europeans and the extent the americans are weighted to a ology that is propagated by the World Economic forum and, and they were. And its not entirely clear what the deal is, other than they want to reduce the population of the world. I mean, i back their agenda and green energy, somehow those in with that, the gender as was the, the fear of pandemic. And, and of course, you know, 8 people having children or anything like that. So its, its a part of the same things. Are they using this crisis, the ukraine, essentially to cause all use the fossil fuels or the move to these renewable they know perfectly well there is no way in the world that germany can continue to be an economic powerhouse relying on solar panels. And when you have to think that based on how dont want europe in the United States to be kind of the engine will grow. I mean, they want to continue to be prosperous themselves. They dont really want to extend this prosperity to others. It seems, you know, the europeans want to set an example, but the world thats something that we see here. And, you know, you know, eventually, you know, theyll be carbon changing in this country uses too much carbon. You know that, that will be, you know, it will be another reason for nato. It to be all they think theyre too big. Ok. But i mean, but it doesnt work logically because then they become less competitive. They become for the come more irrelevant. And so everyone, the learning i think that will be dont do what drives you would do the grow. Go ahead in the last 30 seconds. You well for wanting to speak, magazines, will radius or in europe. Esteem is all the groups not only about which are concerned about it, but also about energy crisis. So theyre all extreme is now people out and there was one person who said that basically by these already see europe is destroying european capital. Therefore ego or sanction that yeah, im just going to chill. I look at and im not saying it on my own, but as i said, it would be good to go back and this is all with steve. This is always going to back the whole conspiracy theories. Right . Well, it will have as well, and youre at least a winter coming up. Well have cold capitalism. Ok to see how that feels. Ok, go out. Ok. Im watching themselves or digging further in into their problems. Its extraordinary to witness gentlemen, thats all the time we have. I want to thank my guests in budapest and here in my i want to thank you for watching us. Here are the remember of cross up rules. Ah ah. Mm hm. Ah, the explosion in the off down in capital leaves 2 people injured that comes as the country marks their 1st anniversary of that tell about to return to power. Following the bought us with moscow urges western countries to quote, stop playing irresponsible games on push key. Have to hold the shelling of those up erosion Nuclear Power plant. Also at india and pakistan. Celebrate independence, a 75 years after colonial rule and came to an end. We look at how the nations tried to force their own