A professor at the university of southeastern norway as well as author of the book, russo phobia propaganda and international politics. Originally crossed across the fact that means you can jump any time you want, and i would appreciate it. I would start out with one here in our slow, you know, one of the things in looking at media coverage. And thats what i do for a living, lie cover on western media primarily. And you know, when it comes to the conflict in ukraine going on 5 months, you really dont really learn much about the conflict. Instead they to, when theyre trying to convince you how to feel about the conflict there is lacking, the context is lacking. Im even geographical knowledge is for the scant and, and theres reliance upon vogue magazine, a photo shouts of the ukrainian president and his wife. I mean, in that state of my stressing how to feel, it is easier to get away without const contextualizing in an n, as a way to try to allay all the suffering that western publics are feeling. Glen. Well, what youre describing is a description of propaganda because at least have defined a just propaganda to large extent were conducing an audience by not relying on rational arguments. So instead you play on stereotypes and ceilings, and obviously theres this build up to the war were currently just follow russia games, which obviously was a great example of how ceilings kind of blurred out all of the facts on the matter. Now obviously, countries use propaganda to some extent during war, especially about this is around this is because its necessary to mobilize public concerns for a conflict. So this is why we say this during this times about what the corporate names to do is build up. If there are types, of course, what goes wrong, good versus evil. And if you accept this there at time and all information comes through this. Through this prism fax, us, you said it doesnt really matter anymore because youre guiding something even well, its not necessary. And, and this is usually how you see it. Again, its a long history of theres a rush, its always been seen as if you will, the other rest, you know, they have been buried, store civilization. Theyve been the asians european this know here in our liberal democracy. So this is how all information has to be filtered to making a big harry potter has story out of the news. And this is problematic because people can accept those stereotypes and get stuck with those emotions. Dont look at the facts anymore and then in my argument and one loses let me, which was interesting. Here im calling this program the phony war. And of course, this is a reference to the time when this, the, during the 2nd world war, after the war started in when nazi germany invaded poland. And before the invasion of france, it was called the phony war because there wasnt much going on particularly on the french front. But this, there is a real war going on. But the, the propaganda that glen was referencing its getting a bit sin. Because if the russians all their bad guys, why are we in the west of free . Theyre not making a very compelling argument louder here. Well, i would say we have to look at who is the object of propaganda. And its clear that old journal propaganda is much less ukrainians where actually bear the bronsels of war and are being killed and suffering. So if they hear some reports from, from dc, or if they look at the pictures and ski, if theyre not effected by that, they know that theyre brothers or sisters. I mean, you know, a wounded or killed a wound and so on. But the gullible western public has to support this, a fraud that everything is united, everythings for school and be, is this kind of the desire to send money to give some kind of extra walk through the industrial comp. Its clear that sooner or later these narrative will keep their very hard to reality on the ground. Because you know, every time they tell the west all levels help, the brain isnt going to smash russia. Youre great. Im going to conquer this. And i says, i running out of their last m all you know, and it sooner late than even with and bob i just with the green on the bottom, it will say, well, you tell us this, and now we hear that it ends out of the root is trying to get 70 old people in the army. Now he says everyone from done by city just have to move away. Something doesnt leak. And then you know, western propaganda and propaganda will end up with a big on their face. And they, i think they trying to push on it as long as they can. But in general, reality, she dont really, glen it. There. We were kind of nerdy all 3 of us on this program because we appreciate a history and geo politics. And were from 3 different different different countries. But, you know, as an american, you know, uh, the post mortem of, of the, the ending of the war in southeast asia. My goodness at South Vietnam government was really, really corrupt men. Oh, im a year ago with a exit of afghanis and my goodness, that was a really corrupt to come from and. And now, before the conflict started of every 24th this year, ukraine was one of the most considered one of the most corrupt countries in the world. So, i mean, this is going to kind of come full circle as billions and billions of dollars are being forwarding to the country. Money, military equipment, ammo. The whole works here. But just talk about corruption is, like i said in my introduction, almost treasonous. Go ahead. On this before the warranty was there need to be seal and making documented documents about, you know, the horrible corruption in your grades, documentaries, about what they refer to as not said battalions, but now after the war began, we now see that this all became suddenly russian propaganda and said in a more, also calling approximate war and was also enough to get to counsel. But then of course, the old american political issue told began to refer to as a proxy war in the media. So now its okay. So its difficult to follow. But again, this is a huge conformity, i mean, you have to choose between 2 positions. And this is often very artificial because of course, you can say youre opposed to the rational attack on ukraine because their supporting. But if you do, if thats your decision, i also have to conform to the whole narrative. And this is a big rivalry between democracy versus terrorism. And that also makes china complexity well. But of course, the facts in this market, its kind of disappears because, you know, your government is supposed to be this near inspirational when beacon of democracy, you know, sometimes gets the new winston sure, sure. And of course, it becomes non official because he comes when, if you want to talk about ca, polk, colfax, for example. The more strict calling the laws against russia. Speakers on ethnic russians, binding the Opposition Party about the resting, the main opposition later or placing all neither control under the state. You know, these are objectively undemocratic actions. But if you mention this fact, it becomes called rational propaganda to not sure no, because now youre creating about it, i want to create a new government. So showing support is less than necessary and thats why its very dangerous for this kind of propaganda goes and makes all our journalists in the west into soldiers in this information works. And you know which destroying our own trust in a meeting were trying to destroy our own institutions for and if one end to this cause, like we should be able to say on the things such as. And you know, if you want to convert ukraine into frontline against russia, this is not compatible with democracy. And this is why we see that you created marks, its large extent was snuffed out after 2014. And when you carry those to me, be made into this new frontline, but again, we would, we dont talk about the facts instead we have this going to cause, you know, you have this, this emotional appeal would have been to soleski versus polluting, which has become the embodiment of evil, and then we dont have to discuss security interest. We dont have to discuss because its a good man versus evil now. And you pick your side, you know, blood of it when it, when glen was describing how the goal posts as it were, is changing. If, if theres a guy amazing similarity to cove it, i mean when you can Say Something when you can Say Something, but you can Say Something at one point. You can cancel the months later. Its common parlance. I mean its, its very interesting that kind of a trajectory both cove it in that way were allowed to talk about ukraine. I think, you know, what americans are good. It is a, each in them masses are manipulation masses and maybe learn from this experience. What i, he and all is, is like a marker to use them all over again. And my cars used to work for quite some time on until sound very. She is honest voices in United States arose and say, theres a lot of you know, exchanges. He described and you are, youre creating a request dangerous situation, which destroys our democracy, destroys our country. The same thing is happening here. I dont think if americans want to help ukraine. This is not the way to help you great by allowing one person ban all the parties that have been all employees and this doesnt help a crane. This doesnt help anyone, any concert you through, you know, dialectics throw kind of challenges through. So trying to improve and just here in this market, mccarthy, methods, it works for a while and americans know it and they use it and they use it on germany. They use it on to london, sweden. They manipulate it, but its, people are commonsensical. People should certainly the realize that this is not a fair description of the story and because its false, it does help anyway. Im glad im here on top of it then with some it called for an investigation of ukrainian oligarchy, which is a very interesting because that would encompass the narrative before february 24th. Theres corruption in ukraine and a lot of money in western money. In goodwill. I think that, you know, you can say that for at least the part of some people, but that, you know, that is the day again, that kind of creeping narrative. Yeah. It is. Yeah. Remember the corruption, maybe because of so much money. We should have some oversight here around paul and he was, he was attacked mercilessly say, well, ill vote for the money, but can we buy now where its going and where would it . And i mean, he was just absolutely destroyed in the media. But now theres more and more talk. Yeah, maybe we should have some kind of oversight here. You just have to know how to play the cues. I suppose, glenn, real quick before we go to the break here. Would be theres gonna be a major offensive most likely in ukraine, but its going to be a russian one, not a ukrainian one. I dont know if western media is prepared to deal with that. No, i dont. Because, well, let me also point that out correctly before the main people were trying to convince the western audience assess classifying the money. And the way i think thats, but this reason you need to keep the momentum going to keep the support going at. The core of this is to say, you know, the ukraine is, are winning the rush. I losing who im kind of seeing over the 5 months perpetual claim that we have to go to a hard break. And after that hard break, well continue more discussion and some real estate with our tea. Ah, ah, the newest courage and if you speak russian, keep your voice down while out and about to him about because youre prosper. Dont put your home and symbols under split space reach guy. So you guys dont talk to strangers. 7 avoid noisy gatherings and rallies when she get him in the morning. Shes eaten your colleagues, perhaps all your friends and youre guilty because your russian much and i was and i was so glad the way is being picked up by mutual i wasnt sure if i need specific social concerning me. Ah, is it on young thing . Ah no, no, no, no, but they did not valuable. Mm hm. Thats been happening by high middle now i own my hit up my laptop, diana, i didnt thought just w, a knuckle, but i love bob. You didnt thought now . Well, im up here a bit a, well, i me let me go lation star bit. Yeah. Now we thought, yeah, its not in and welcome back across stock where all things are considered. I get a little, this is the home addition to remind you. Were discussing some real news, the, the minutes go back to glen glen before we had to go to the break, you were trying to make a point. Please finish up. You know, sort of thing about the continued support by the western public requires this promise victories, especially with this kind of cell sacrifice. So every week, you know, we have this new story about ukraine, launching a spectacular conference and you know, some kind of come to wherever to meet the reports that comes out of this except for huge losses. And also we have to say that process losing their last week, and the rush of solution is running out every week. Soldiers in russia lost their morales and putting it sit here putting its almost about to be a tough old russian economy. Clothing. I mean its, it plays out all over again and again and, but member, anything comes out of it. So what again it says with the story that you know, your grand under dog destroying the Russian Military brushes simply only targeting civilians of course. So, and this is where the emotional aspect comes in as well. Goes, mean only focus on civilian thats on one side. But on the other side it cant be mentioned. And if you know, goes back to the idea that if you, if you have some sympathy for an opposing side, then life around paul, you might be a traitor because now youre spreading propaganda. So the fact that matter is whether or not you can draw up enough sympathy for the right side. The real tragedy is that there isnt been call vertigo, creations in peace. Instead of taking a side, you know, people, goodwill and powers that we have discovery, but youre not getting that. What were doing is that, you know, all of the things that were told to believe the russian economy is bailing on, is sick. A round the military, when things are going to west, the governments are balling in the west, the inflation is for rick big energy crisis, food banks, and the u. K. All the things theyre projecting on whats happening in russia is actually happening in real time in the west. And you can cover that because that is the lived experience of people. When you got a bill up, youre not taking your cards. No propaganda is going to be one way or another. Its just expensive. Go ahead. Yeah, the same thing applies to the price of gasoline driving the cars, engine on heating and cooling. So i think it is, you know, i think the rest and propaganda, they can lie about decent places like, you know, ukraine, 90 percent of the people jennifer around a little that so it sounds all kind of music all strange by the lesson. But if you go to your own store and see the prices it is, its, its collapsing, and i think its, its an actually, its a, its a mistake of a weston estimation or was there was a weakness in saying, in russia because they know i see it in be, shes a, well, we will kind of wrong about the strength over us and the guy, you know, but they did it. Just think about it. You are wrong, american gun horn. You want your 160 to succeed. You have to know your enemy. If you dont know your enemy, how can you do anything if youre just life is dont tell lies that chinese a giant on legs of clay in the rushes or the gl absent today, then what will happen when you know a, hitler was why it was his own people, well, well, much the russians in todays and then what, you know, they just throw the you, they just throw themselves. So i think it, we keep on she and as it is also this lies and in her life to themselves, thats a bit of a dangerous thing. You know, plan and not only lies that i think them a great deal of arrogance in play as well. Because um, there were the russians for pushback from care. Thats the story here. Well i, i dont know what the military planning was. I dont know what that was all about. But there is this impression that these Armchair Generals that were into the generals in wars that were lost by the way, by the west in the middle east, primarily. But theyre, theyre kind of trying to convince maybe themselves in the audience that the russians fight the same way as we do destroy all the infrastructure, live something about the iraq and destroy the water and destroying the intro to destroy everything. And then you go in, thats not the case of the, again, this kind of arrogant projection of how they fight a war. Everybody else does, which is not the case. If you are familiar with the facts on the ground, glen, i want to mention curious important because thats what youre kind of stuck on stuck kept for so long because in the beginning of the or, and of course, russia were, stole his troops outskirts and hoping to get the concessions they wanted, and again, this was done by the weekend, however, dismissed in the work, but of course the problem for the roches, where they have this long, unprotected supply lines, which made them very also the amanda disposition, and by the bye. But this was at the starting point, everything a different strategy. But again, the narrative snail reflects kimura, which say, you know, ukrainian talks are starting to see things or some time. And you know, so, you know, the mighty Russian Military machine has been destroyed by the cranium. Also have the stories amongst mattress. You know, there goes the key will remember the airplane or just shut down all the russians. My guy. Yeah. Make island, you know, this way, you know, russians for the russian worships, but theres also to be it doesnt matter because the narrative still still space. They still have the science show. And so the western, you know, in awesome say, so is this need to hold onto the narrative and this is also problematic point and its got forced to take this position and you know, so for example, im personally horrified by whats happening in ukraine is devastating. But youre saying, listen, we should push towards political settlement, talk to the russians, at least, even if it doesnt start to dialogue now, to see where the possibility is for making peace. Well, that would be anti ukraine. And now im curious the pro ration because now im saying, well, if i wanted to make peace now with the credit, if that means well, i have to make some confession. Send that man asking for your kindness to surrender. So youre not allowed to call for peace that is treating this as well. So and, and so you have, you have to take one decision which is the pro esther on and with all the strange and efficient switch that doesnt necessarily make sense. So its, its very confusing and just one final notice it goes beyond the narrative. Its george, all pointed out that also implies manipulating the language. So what, what things met before. Its not even more so whats happening with the sanctions. What are the economic recession now hitting across the risk . Well, us is always the by the administration is simply change the meaning of recession. Theres nothing recession. This is what we saw. A mother was wrong, and the oldest soldier surrendered, who also surrendered. It wasnt evacuation as it turned out when they put down their weapons and surrendered, and then the russian captivity, this was an evacuation that was repeated across the western media. So we just changed the language instead of you know, to fit with american its is quite extraordinary. Image is not good for us either pro russian on thought western are you, this is bad for us in the west as well. You know, vitamin with one of the things i find very interesting is that because there is no dialogue a blanket in love, roth did speak, but a verb that the read outs is that you talking about this prisoner exchange, which im for the interested parties. Im sure its very, very important, but in the, in the, in the scheme of things, you know, it is a doesnt bode well for any time soon. The conflict in ukraine to come to an end. And i would, i would posit, because you have zalinski is not interested in the, the europeans have been cowed into silence from the russians. Will they then theyll say, we dont have a partner. Theres nobody competent to talk to in washington. Theyre all the phones, they dont really understand what theyre doing. Im the secretary of defense as we want. Our plan is to leak and russia. I guess thats sending a signal to the kremlin of what the, you know, what kind of interlocutor they have. And i would, i would posit then this conflict will come to an end, will come to an end when russians are ready for it to end. And id like to point out to everyone, this conflict will come to an end under russias terms and time table when russia is come to the conclusion. Im thinking about the 2 letters that were sent in december on december 17th, one, the nato wanted the United States about russia. Security guarantees. Russia will determinant unilaterally, and theyll say theyre done thoughts. Yeah, i agree with you and i think thats, thats the damage on the ground and the western denied by in our separation. I was order just speech by interest or use in or all those things, but no sooner or later. Thats how it will and what is said about that to, to, to get there. A lot of people will be killed in an tremendous damage to the most basic democratic principles will be done. Because basically, the behavior all blink blink. Shannon by this is childish behavior. United states, nate, are they were talking to sonya to russia. They were talking to, sorry, the lesser and invaded a project. I guess they were going to sort of as i so they, when you were she, they were concerned with the piece they were concerned with the freedom of speech. They were going to now all the sudden, you know, over this conflict, they just suppressed the basic principles of us. And if you try to write something on facebook, which goes against the narrative, bam, or type of counseling. One of the most popular a percentage is 70000000 people listen to him or know hes a declared ross of this child is behavior, which is another u. S. Children themselves, not only just, you know, fortune, you know, make millions of people in the slavic lands. But you know, that they go to themselves, but thats what disturbing, you know, going on and on. I mentioned in my introduction about with a, the risk of cancellation. In this, there has been an asserted attempt to can, so all of russia russians, russian culture, russian history, the works ok, but i would pause in the west is self cancelling itself in many ways because the, the global south in china, they just, they, theyre not on board, they will not get on board and the, the west finds itself isolated, something that were talking about language. Rice is isolated at the same time, putting in law proper travelling. Have a heavy, busy schedule. Theres no global consensus against russia on this. And i would posit the west as isolating himself. The global cell no longer fears the west and doesnt respect the west anymore. Luck last word goes to you. But i agree. And i think that this has been one of the major shock. So here in the west this, you know, again, this is a narrative, not the whole world is united behind you in the west, a nato. Theres not that many in the countries and all that. So according to the west, instead, it doesnt mean that theyre supporting russia, just mean stuff. This is for one. This is a proxy war between nato and the russia, the cost, the cost of ukrainian sunday. They didnt want to pick a sign in this. I mean, everyones a russian probably on this. This will stephen argument of the po for the, obviously there was a hole in the category of the system. So it is, it is a shame because this has been the strength of the wes, this being able to have the scope and this course and challenge established ideas and a thing like, its no way someone watching us here already. See you next time. Remember . Oh, ah, with blue we raised corn and soybeans here. So some issues that are different this year than in years past is that with all the things going on the world today, our input costs have almost doubled and its going to be really hard for everybody to keep going on. Well make it smaller more our current or late president is william a russia for that to your gas company is are going to get blamed for the problem. But they are not the problem. So by and really chan, blame food for causing the problem. Because he himself caused the problem in but the price is already gone up. Fertilizer and chemicals have dramatically risen. What we need to do, you guys need to what United States needs to do is start and girl in we, we can drill for oil in for some reason our government thinks that we should be using our own oil, which is crazy. Mm. Official got the self proclaimed of public cuff about postpone plan to make fabian obtain permission to enter that the district has bell grades intend to defend his countrymen. First of all, the call i can say is that we will ask for peace. But i will tell you right away, there will be no surrender, and serbia will wind here. That says in the populated north, simons and gunshots are reported as to the cases, 5th topic barricade while police close crossings connecting it to mainland serbia