I mean, in your state, im one point, two points, and even in three polls. One, point, two points, and even. He used the word somewhat, which may depend on who is judging. Trump is now in a new alltime low in that abc poll. He trails clinton by 12 points. Meanwhile, clinton focusing on the downballot elections and got a boost from senator Elizabeth Warren who went right after trump. He thinks that because he has money, that he can call women fat pigs and bimbos. He thinks because he is a celebrity, that he can rate womens bodies from one to ten. Well, ive got news for you, donald trump women have had it with guys like you. And nasty women have really had it with guys like you now, later this week, Hillary Clinton will get another lift from a bigname supporter. Shes going to go to North Carolina and appear with first Lady Michelle obama. Nbcs katy tur is in tampa, florida, where his second rally of the day will be held next hour. Katy, you have been on this road with donald trump for a long time. We just showed some of the democratic pushback. What is his answer in response out there on the trail today . Reporter so far, hes boisterous on the trail today, ari melber. He is talking about how he is going to win. He believes the polls are not only undersampling his support, but also rigged against him, saying that the media is out to against him, as well. This is the same thing weve been hearing day in and day out in and out now for a few weeks. Today, his language a little bit more pointed. He talked about how the media is entitled, condescending, and even contemptuous of the people who dont share their elitist views. Hes trying to create an atmosphere where the people who go to his rallies are not being represented by the national media, are not being represented by their national politicians. And not only that, but theyre being frowned upon by these people. Their views arent correct. But they believe in donald trump and donald trump believes in him. Thats what hes trying to underscore, in order to rally support, so much so, that its that they hope its able to counteract Hillary Clintons support. The issue is that there are a lot of folks out there that dont see that happening at the moment. Hes down in swing states, hes down in even states that have normally been republican strongholds, where hes at least in close races there. Places like utah, arizona, georgia, all tossups. These are states that usually republicans win. Theyre states that donald trump needs to win, along with North Carolina, florida, ohio, and pennsylvania. Theres a bit of a disconnect, also, within the campaign right now. Donald trump admitting today he is a little bit behind as you mentioned before. Kellyanne conway, his campaign manager, admitting yesterday that they are a little bit behind. Today she even tweeted donald trump saying that he admitted that he was behind. Then she goes on msnbc a little bit later and says, no, her words were being taken out of context. Theyre behind when it comes to funding. Theyre behind when it comes to tv spending. And theyre behind in some of the polls, but she was saying, what donald trump has been saying out on stage today, which is is that hes being undersampled. So far, donald trump, though, not offering any real concrete evidence of anything being rigged against him. Ari . All right. Katy tur in the eye of the storm in tampa. Thank you very much. Were going to do some sampling of our own and get a trump perspective here from matt schlapp, chairman of the American Conservative Union and unofficial surrogate for donald trump. Good day so you. So glad to be with you. Glad to have you. You look at all of this conversation around the polling and whether its right, around the election and whether its fair. When you look at what donald trump needs to do over the next two weeks, would you agree that there is not a possibility of a national rigging of the election for inperson voter fraud and he should focus on why people should vote for him . Yeah, absolutely, he should focus on why people should vote for him. Is there voter fraud across the country . Of course, there is. The question is always, how close is the election and how much fraud is there . But i think when it comes to this question of, is it rigged . You know, you look at these polls. Ive seen this on tv in story after story. They say, well, donald trump is down 12 points. Well, theres only one point that shows donald trump down 12 points. It came in over the weekend, this abs news poll. But cnn just did a poll that was released today that shows the race at five points. The real clear politics average shows it at about five or fix points. And the most recent poll has hill tied. So we spend a lot of time talking about polls and i think it would do the voters a lot of good to Start Talking about the issues that faces us, the news we got out today that the Administration Admits that theres going to be doubledigit increases in obamacare premiums. I mean, we have some serious issues as a nation, and thats what we really ought to be focusing on. Well, to your point, let me hit a couple things there. Sure. We have an image of the multiple polls, as you say. There is a range. Well put it up on the screen. You have clinton up 7 in the fox poll, 11 there in cbs. But, yes, with tighter in the abc poll at 4. Nbc, up 10. Thats big. Cnn, you mentioned, at 5. Were certainly keeping an eye on all of the data with objectivity in mind. As for the other question you posed, though, to be clear. You said, well, how much voter fraud is there . The answer is known. The answer is very little and not enough to swing a National Election in a billion ballots cast, im sure you know the loyola study, 31 incidents of impersonation found no. But dont take one studys word for it. You can respond to this. Ill show you a couple of the headlines from state and local republican officials coming out against your candidate and saying, this is not true, this is not possible. Moreover, this is irresponsible, matt. No, i disagree. Look, i spent 34 days in the florida recount. I saw ballots in one county counted different ways in the three times they were counted. What happens with voter fraud is if an election is very close, it can come down to the subjecttivity of the people involved with counting those ballots. And the fact is, is this. What i think people are worried about across the country is that when the race itself is by some people being skewed in how its being reported, they worry about what could happen if this race is close. So what i would encourage everyone to do is, yes, we have great Election Officials across this country. No, i dont think theres anybody whos in power to steal an election from somebody. I do think thats irresponsible, to talk about, but are there incidents of people who vote illegally . Thousands and thousands and thousands . I did research over the weekend and im not even a lawyer or a very good researcher, and you could find the cases in all 50 states where people vote illegally. So i think what we want to encourage people to do is, everyone should vote across this country, be you liberal or conservative, and we ought to make sure its fair. And we ought to make sure that the coverage of this election is reflective of the facts on the ground. And i think thats where a lot of voters are skconcerned. They just dont see the race being covered in a fair way. You have Donald Trumps controversies being covereded a nauseam, yet you have very substantial charges against Hillary Clinton, these are serious issues. Lets cover them. Matt, i know youve got to stick up for your candidate here no, no, lets just cover the facts. Sure, lets cover the facts. You do understand why, in some of these instances, the way that donald trump deals with allegations and scandal does prolong the discussion of it. I mean, let me play for you something he said today. This is new, with regard to the 11th accuser that came out over the weekend. These are his words about it. Take a listen. Youll find out that in the years to come, these women that stood up, its all fiction. They were made up. I dont know these women. Its not my thing to do, what they said. I dont do that. One said, he grabbed me on the arm, and shes a porn star. Now, you know, this one that came out recently, he grabbed me and grabbed me on the arm. Oh, im sure shes never been grabbed before. He says, im sure shes never been grabbed before. Obviously, her profession or any other incident shes ever been involved in is not legally relevant to the accusation of whether he did this or not. If he didnt do it, he has every right to defend himself, but casting aspersions at her, as he has with several of the women, saying theyre obviously liars and made this up and said he didnt know them, one was on the apprentice and he did know her. Do you see how that prolongs the discussion . Yes, lets just get right to it. He makes a mistake when he talks about these episodes. And i think the media, its too bad that when he gives a big series of speeches on all the government reforms he would like to see, were now talking about these issues that are not central to what the American People care about. Literally, today, it was announced that therell be doubledigit increases in obamacare premiums for americans across the country. Lets talk about that. Lets talk about the problems that we have with radical islamic terror. Lets talk about the fact that 70 of americans think that this country is tonight wrong track. I think one of the reasons why people get frustrated in politics is we spend so much time talking about things that are not central, and we should talk about things that are central. And if the candidates could deserve to be blamed at times for that, as well, thats fine, as well. But lets start coffvering the issues. Weve got two weeks left. Lets talk about them. I hear you and i understand he may have contributed to that. Another issue thats a real substantiative issue, hes trying to change term limits, trying to break the back of the lobbying industrial complex. Why do you think thats important . And do you think that republicans in the senate would go along with that, because as you know, they have not always voted for those kind of lobbyists bans in the past, it depends on the member. Sure, i think one of the reasons why donald trump is not always accepted by even a lot of republicans, or some elected republicans, is that, you know, hes more of an independent guy and hes not really a creature of washington, like Hillary Clinton and bill clinton are, wi and he looks at washington and says, look, i think its broken. And most americans do, as well. They think that we have to make radical change to washington and somehow were just stuck. Were not addressing the issues of the day and were not able to get them through the process. And he thinks its going to take an outside voice. Sometimes that outsider will have to be aggressive and perhaps a little bit rude to shake things up. I think he is smart to take this on. And i think hes with the American People, that they think our politics are somehow broken. And its hard to see how Hillary Clinton, whos a function of these politics, is the person to solve it or clean it up. Well, i thought the lobbyist ban was one of the more interesting proposals out of that package and its certainly one that really overlaps with things that bernie sanders, even john edwards had campaigned on before or Elizabeth Warren today was talking about. Before i let you go, i want to play you karl rove, who has been known to take an aggressive reading of polls when possible, even karl rove is losing my former boss all right, well, here we go, take a listen. Well, if he plays an inside straight, he can get it, but i doubt hes going to be able to play it. He would have to not only win two states where hes either slightly ahead or behind by four, but he would have to pick up states where hes behind by at or above the national average. I dont see it happening. That is the resident optimist for Republican Party polling saying, its not happening. Your thoughts . Karl rove does not like donald trump, doesnt prefer him, hes been a critic of him throughout this year. But the race is where it is. Is he tied . Down a couple of points . Im not sure. I think what i believe and the demographers i trust say the race is much closer than a lot of people are reporting, that it will tighten, i believe, as these weeks go on. Karls exactly right. It comes down to winning in battleground states. North carolina, where almost all the polls show its very tight. Ohio, where it shows trump has a lead. New hampshire, where it shows trump is slightly behind. Youve got to win these states in order to be the president. And i think the next two weeks, and whether or not he stays on this message, will determine whether or not he gets through this path. All right. Matt, well, you sort of have the car Rearview Mirror view of this. The polls are much closer than they may appear. We will find out in the coming weeks. Thanks for spending type with us. Okay, thank you. Still ahead, revealing new numbers on early votes, something we can count and count out battleground states. You might be surprised by how many millions of people have already voted and what we can tell you about what they may have chose. And big democrats looking beyond the white house, but is it over confidence time . Were also going to tell you which campaign is talking about another debate and jayz, planning to hit the field for Hillary Clinton, showing its anything but politics as usual. If youre keeping track at home, that is a reference to his album, reasonable doubt. The more you know. Stay with us. Well be back after the break. E. E. And never get red it. Are yoentirely prepared to reti . Plan your nevetiring rin retid tires retire with e tre. Im in vests ands a vested iestor in ves i inve with e trade, im in vests ands a vested iestor in ves whinstors cainstigate and invest in vests. N in vest sign up at etradcom and ge up to six hundred dollars. I love that my shop is part of the morning tual around here. People relon that rst cup d i wouldnt nt to mess with that. I couldnt sleep. I had trouble gettin there time. Then i found avem. Eve pms the onlyne to combine a sleep aid pl t 12 hour strength. For inelief than last io the m. Look up at a new day. Pl t 12 hour strength. For inelhey guys last io the m. Now im back aleve or beer am. Dont boo dont boo dont boo somebody asked me, he said, i voted, can i boo now . I said, no, no, wait until all the votes are in. Go get some more folks to vote. President obama in nevada there sunday, where early voting is underway, and its early the to forget, as we count down to election day, that voting has begun, and that could be a big boost to whichever candidate is in the lead. As of today, we can tell you, more than 6 million votes have been cast nationwide. Thats our latest nbc data from target smart. And there is evidence that the campaigns voter turnout efforts in key states are working. Most of those votes, 4 million of them, come from just 12 battleground states. Now, the good news for clinton, democratic affiliate voters are dominating in 9 of those 12 states where h republicanaffiliated voters leave in florida and pennsylvania. Its really difficult, because, you know, on one side, you have trump being a jerk and with all the issues that have come out of the recent and hard to sport him and its also very difficult to support hillary because of her issues, too. You know, the emails, the lies. There are so many things that have troubled me. The way he speaks to people, the way he says i like war, i want to bomb the blank out of everybody. I am very, very concerned about the rhetoric coming out of his mouth. I want to bring in doug herman, a democratic strategist who did direct mail and field strategy for the Obama Campaigns in 08 and 2012. And doug, theres an old saying in hip hop, i aint got to talk it, because i live it. That is certainly the case for you. Our viewers may not see you on air all the time, but you sure have worked your way around a lot of winning democratic campaigns. So we wanted your handicapping of these numbers. What does it actually mean and not mean to see democrats taking the lead in the early vote in these states right now . Thanks for having me on, ari. Theres a couple of things that come from the lead thats happening right now in terms of the early vote and how thats breaking down. The first is that having a lead in the polls is currently a good thing to be happening, when early vote is going on. You never want to be behind, when the early voting is going on. So the Clinton Campaign lead in battleground states that are in particular significant parts of the campaign and how the if shes going to win, are super important. Places where shes getting a big boost early from latino turnout, for example, in florida, has spiked dramatically. And when you look at places like that, and you have the ability to invest the time and the Organizational Resources into developing and culling those votes, its a significant advantage. I know for a fact that during the 2012 campaign in iowa, for example, a battleground state forever, it seems like, the Obama Campaign had a lead in the absentee voting and the early votes, and in fact, they had roughly a 60 to 40 lead in the absentee voting. They lost on election, amongst people who turned out on election day. But still won the state based on a significant lead early in the voting lets pause on that. Because youre hitting really two points. One is that you can bank a big enough lead early to protect you from whatever comes later, which right now, would be helping Hillary Clinton, given the lead she would presumably have if you just random sampled, but you seem to also be alluding the to the fact that there are different universes of voters. Let me put on the screen some of the places where theres huge clinton leads right now that certainly couldnt be at an early vote, wouldnt be her expected margin. Look at this in virginia, right . Youre up 52 37. Look at wisconsin, shes up over 20 points, if we count democraticaffiliated ballots, thats how were doing the early vote. So that would suggest that even if she wins wisconsin, as might be expected, you wouldnt say shes going to win it by 20plus points. Shes not very likely to win it by 20plus points. Because whats happening with th these campaigns, theyre targeting the supporters, going after the people that are most likely to vote for them. So having an organizational advantage, having a fundraising advantage, having the time to invest into capturing these votes is really significant. So what theyre doing is theyre oversampling and overrecruiting people who are more supportive to them. So the people who are going to vote for donald trump, for example, are not part of the Hillary Clinton universe. Theyre not part of the targeting world. Theyre not people theyre focusing on and giving rides to and helping to turn out to vote. Theyre putting their effort into people who would vote for Hillary Clinton. So you get a disproportionate number upfront. And hopefully in many cases and what the Clinton Campaign is banking on, having a big enough lead when those votes come in for trump, they can withstand that loss on election day. That they have an early tidal wave. Its such an unseen part in the way elections are going, at least in the last few cycles, when we see more states getting more available. Lets look at the republican side. They are doing better, including int critical state of florida. Heres republicanaffiliated the early voting. These are votes that are already coming in, according to target smart. And the georgia, florida, and pennsylvania, rs having an edge. What does that tell you . Well, it tells me this is going to be a hardfought election in these three states. And when you look at having georgia on a list that has florida and pennsylvania in it, two traditionally hardfought battleground statesover the years, when you start adding a state like georgia to the democratic battleground list, and having democrats being competitive there, it shows you what kind of an advantage the Clinton Campaign has been able to build up and what kind of a lead they currently have. So when i look at numbers like that and a race like this, it says to me, this is going to be hardfought in those three states. But i look at nine of the 12 battleground states where the Clinton Campaign has a significant lead in early votes and im comforted by that. And it gives the democratic side of the aisle a much more comforted and confident feeling heading into election day, when a lot of voters are going to be turning out to vote against them, because theyve been able to come early and get the absentee vote in early. Its early to project out too far, but it would suggest that at least in the votes being cast right now, theres not necessarily the Enthusiasm Gap that was rumored for so long about Hillary Clinton, at least, again, according to the initial data that we have. Doug herman, thanks so much for joining us today. Thank you, ari. Next, details on the latest republican senator to unendorse donald trump before reendorsing him. And the New York Times weighing in on, yes, one of the most important things weve learned this entire election cycle. What does Big League Mean . And does it not mean what you thought it mean . Well explain, straight ahead. I, the best ever, donald trump promise to accept promise to accept the results of this election. The results of this election, if i win. Got ya, loser. This is humira. This is humira helping anprotect myoi further d. To relieve my pain this is hulping me go. This is humira. Humiraorks f madults. Tarts andelps to block a specic source of infmmation contrites toto. Hura h beeclinicly studied for ov 1yes. Humira canow you ability tototoht infections, of infmmation contrites toto. Cluding beulis. Cancers, including mphoma, havened, have blooiver and seriallergic reactions, betell yctor iuveeen a t tested fb. E. Where rtai infectns are comn, and ifve d tb, patis are pre tonfecons, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont starhumira if you ha an fectio ready for a new chapte talk tyour rheatologis ths humira at work. Talk tyour rheatologis yoleara lot t whatike people want. L cheese hoy, do we he li a super creamy cheese th taco spice already in it . Ohthan. Bon n chee ay. Get up to 5,000usmer ca exprsion select 20 models. E e ui seyour lexeale an Opening Night on broaa broadw s designer. Owbott m when i start desning a bronx tale thmusica i ce up. Wh this ideof four towers that were resces. Phoshop anadd these. Ld a le m. Detlswith a p. I cod ner doa. Tin all the blanks. H deta tspur anc. B. Imanation l is winws pc is amazinghaving. Ight a finger ps is inee welcome back. Well do a quick check of some other headlines to get you caught up. Republican senator mike crapo from idaho says he will vote for donald trump, despite unendorsing him earlier this month. In an online statement, he says hell vote for trump to stop Hillary Clinton from becoming president. He withdrew his support from trump after the 2005 tape surfaced with trump talking about groping women. And jayz will hold a get out the vote conference for clinton in cleveland before election day. The Clinton Campaign focused on firing up Younger Voters and minority voters who may be fans of jayz. Its all going down in ohio where theres a very, very tight race so far. And the New York Times weighing in on a big controversy. Is donald trump saying bigly or big league. Hes been saying big league and dug up two vintage clips to support their case. I was billions of dollars in debt, but i fought bag and i won, big league. Lots of countries, france, that are just ripping us, saudi arabia, you look at these deficits, that are just ripping us big league. Its hard to hear, because the g stays silent, like the g in lasagna. Confirmed in an email that trump has been saying big league this whole time. Dont you feel better knowing that. Now, up ahead, donald trump and the downballot effect Hillary Clinton as well as president obama are trying to make republican candidates pay a real price for supporting donald trump. Now, when suddenly, its not working, and peep are saying, wow, this guys kind of out of line, all of a sudden, these republican politicians who were okay with all this crazy stuff, up to a point, suddenly, theyre all walking away. Well, what took you so long . what the heck . These goofy gls. Yeah. Well, we gotta hand it ecommerceo easye heed mar and nowere getting all kinds of n customers i know. Can you believe rtting orders from canada, irand. Is ones going to new zealand. New zed . Psst. Ah, lse alm. Hey you guys arnna scare away the deer ts or keeping a Hotels Guests pcuttinconnected. I to 35,000 smalfans. Ess. Businesses count on counation, and mmunation counts on centurylink. Ve got abipls. Long life ahead. Businesses count on counation, so when i found out medicap all my medical eens, i look at myptio. Then got a medicare pplement insurance plan. [ ma announcer ] if youre eligible for micare, u y know it only co about 8 ofour part b medical expenses. The rest is up to abt an aarmedicareout supplement insurance plan, insured by unidhealthcare insurance company. Like alltandardized Medicare Supplement insurance pns, it helpsick some of what mecare doesnt pay and could save you in outofcket medal costs. To m relationships matter. I been with my ctorfor 12. Nonoi ow ill be aetoticki. [ announcer ] with these types of f ans, youll bable to visit andoctor or hospital [ announcer ] that accepedicare patients. And virtually no refra plus, therneeded. Networks, so dont wait. Call now and reque th free decision gui to hp you better understand medicare. And which aarp Medicare Supplement plan ght be best for u. Therewide range to choose from. We love toravel and thes soh more tsee. Soe und a plan thanvel with us. [ male announc ] join the millions of pple anywre in the untry. Who have alrea enrold in the onlmecareupplement join thinsurance plansple anywre in the untry. Endors by aarp, rgizioservg the needs of people 50 and over r gerations. The nrememeer, all medicareover supplent insurancens help cover at medicare doesnt pay. And could save y utofpockedic cts. Call now to qut your free decision guide and len more out the nds of plans that will be here for you now and down the road. I have a letof experience. So i knohow importanthat is. Wheyou wantv sometto protecte, at levy st of the way. Ateys can you th an estate plan including wills or a living trust that grows alongith you and your family. Legalzoom. But you have to the get out and vote. And that includes helping me reelect republicans all over the place. I hope they help me, too. It would be nice if they help us too, right . A number of vulnerable republicans have recently started running away from donald trump, but they may need him on november 8th as much as hthey need him. They only need a net gain of five seats to do it. President s cant do everything on their own. We cant elect hillary and saddle her with a congress that is donothing, wont even try to do something, wont even get their own stuff passed, much less the stuff you want passed. As were traveling in these last 17 days, were going to be te emphasizing the importance of electing democrats down the ballot. Let me just quote marco rubio. He called donald trump dangerous and he called donald trump a con artist. But hes supporting donald trump. And lets get right to our panel, joean walsh, and beth fouhy, and democratic strategist, jamal simmons. Hey, everybody. Two weeks to go. The main point starting here, joan, would be, this wasnt how it was supposed to be. And the underlying demographics and data would have suggested a year ago, it wasnt going to be this way if you had a more generic republican. Right. And i really was glad that you picked that quote at the beginning, that trump quote at the beginning. Because when he said that, i laughed out loud. You lold. I did, i did. Because he was like, you know and then youve got to help me, you know, elect some republicans. He might as well have just said, blah, blah, blah. He looked so disheartening, you know, sure, elect republicans, theyre not helping me. So youve got this civil war in the party. So you can have the worst possible effect, which is that the people who love trump dont vote downballot, because marco rubio has not been very loyal. And that the people who would maybe kind of like marco rubio are just so disheart tnd by the whole thing that they skip the whole thing. Because we know people do tend to come out on both sides, democrat and republican, for the president ial nominee. So it could be the worst of all worlds. And if republicans are in trouble, jamal, theres a whole wing of the party who will not accept, this is the reason why. Were already seeing the preview of that argument. Heres Mike Huckabee tweeting on this saying, look, if gop loses senate, its not because candidates ran with real donald trump, but because they ran from him. No time for wimps and wusses. And to be fair, there are plenty of democrats who say, whenever the democrats have lost ground in the congress, its because they didnt run as proud standardbearers of their party. Trump is a complex its of what the party actually and stands for. But what do you think of that view, that the Republican Party may come in here after november, even dealt serious losses, and say, we werent trump enough . Youre sort of darned if you do and dapprned if you dont. Because if youre rob portman, do you want donald trump to say your name. He gets up and says, vote for the republicans downballot. Hes not naming these people. If youre a voter out there, you dont actually know who hes talking about. This will be one of the things people are looking for later. Does donald trump help or hurt you when youre underneath him on the ballot . And well have a lot of data to pick through on this. Its Political Science 101, really. That the top of the ticket really drives how people vote. And this sort of effort by republicans to suggest that people are going to split their tickets, they will go no, even if you dont like the guy at the top, please come and help be a check on Hillary Clinton, sort of flies in the face of human behavior. You know, political scientists have been studying this for decades. And it really doesnt work that way. Thats not to say, this is a very unusual year, as we all know, it could happen. I actually think the bigger problem, ari, is trump talking about the rigged election. If hes telling all of his people, most of whom are republicans, that the election is rigged and hes going to lose no matter what, whats the incentive for them to come out and vote at all . Thats really going to kill these downballot people. Yeah, weve talked a lot about whats wrong with it and have fact checked and it well continue to do that. This is a politics segment. Joan, as a political matter, it is demobilizing to tell people the thing i want you to do has been prerigged against you and you dont have a voice. Its really, really interesting, because Donald Trumps only hope for a long time has been this hes going to turn out these socalled missing white voters. The people who have sat it out for several elections alledgedly. Some people can tell you where they are, but to the extent they exist, its a controversy. They are noncollege whites. Those are the donald trump voters. But its, a, very difficult to get these people out in the first place. They dont vote, which means they dont vote. Youve got to find them and get them out. On the flip side, when africanamericans mainly, but not only africanamerican students, young people, seniors, are having being disenfranchised, in states like florida, you have a movement, you have a history and you also have an infrastructure of people saying, theyre trying to take your vote away from you. People died for this vote. And you have this a way that the narrative, and its a true narrative in this case, that your vote is being threatened, actually causes obama voters and the hope is, clinton voters, to search the polls anyway. So they took away a lot of your early polling places in North Carolina. Please go vote anyway. Stand on those long lines. Joan, i think there are some missing white voters out there, that trump would be to those white voters what barack obama was to many africanamerican voters who werent going to show up. Weve seen them show up in the elections before. The question is, though, is there an infrastructure i just want to in place i want to get this right for twitter and youtube. Youre saying that donald trump is just like barack obama . I am saying that he will be i want to do that he could be to disaffected white voters to what barack obama was to disaffected black voters. But it wasnt just that obama was inspiring, he was inspiring and he had a kickass, can i say that, infrastructure, that no one and they had a serious ground game, too. And we at nbc news and many other reporters have looked at the alleged ground game that is going on in all the battleground states and it really does not exist. Its been farmed out to the rnc. Theyve been overwhelmed. They dont have the money, nor the peep, nor the resources to do the work that youre describing to identify those voters and take them to the polls. And i think thats joans point on the message mobilization meets organization. Weve been to these trump rallies. Ive sen people at the rallies that dont necessarily fall into the local Republican Party machinery. These rallies do look different. But unlike obama rallies and a lot of other Traditional Campaign organizations, you dont see people collecting information. You dont see note cards. You dont see supporter cards. You dont see people with the ipads. Jamal, you dont see any of that. You get the feeling that when you does build a crowd, step one in politics, step two, three, four, collect, contact, remind are all missing. It might be more complicated than that. Joe heck is turning out his voters who are going to vote against the top of the ticket in order to try to win that state. Rob portman might be in the same place and toomey could be also. Were going to pause, but the panel states. After the break, counting the way the Trump Campaign says it could still shake up this race wi, of course, just two weeks too g. Dont let them spin you any orr way. Dont be fooled. This race is on. Sothing new has arrived. Introducg the firstever infini qx30 crosver. Visit your local infinit retailerod. Infiniti. Empower the drive. When you close to the ople y love, does psoriasis ever get ine wa . The chance of completely clear skin with taltz. Taltz is pron to give you a chancet completely clear skin. Withaltz, up t 90 of patients had a significant improvement their psoriasis plaques. Fact, 4 out of 10 even aceved completely clear skin. Do not use if you armprovement allergic to taltz. Plaques. Before stainyou should be checked for tuberculosis. Taltz may increase yr risk of infections anlower your ability toig them. Tell your doctor if you are being treated for an infection or have sympto. Or if you have receid a ine or pn to. Inammatory bowel diseasecan hapa or have sympto. Cluding worsening of symptoms. Nows your ce atc completely clearkin. Justsk your doctor about taltz. The 2016 campaign is down to its final two weeks. Time running out for Trump Campaign. But today his daughterinlaw insisted, it aint over until its over. What about the october surprise from the trumps, towards Hillary Clinton . When are you going to drop that . Well, there are still a couple days left in october. Oh, really . So you might have something . Weve got some stuff up our sleeve. There are a few days left in october. Now, i know the debate would seem to be the last thing drrp would want right now, or is that the surprise . The debates are a very unique opportunity for all of america to see these candidates side by side. And i wish there were more debates, frankly. We would be willing to do another one if somehow they could squeeze it in. We all wish that, kellyanne. We all wish there was time for one more debate. And one supporter this weekend had another recommendation for the campaign. Please tell obama and trump to stick to the issues and hell beat hillary. Im tired of the good luck. Good luck. If you can tell him. If anybody can tell him. Lets bring back the panel. Joan walsh, beth fouhy, and jamal simmons. That voter we played, and we try to listen to what voters are actually saying out there, obviously taps a nerve that a lot of people feel, up and down everyone talks about elites and real america. Everyone feels that this race has repeatedly, joan, been hijacked by small issues, petty personal attacks, often led by one of the candidates, donald trump, but also a media feeding frenzy that reinforces it. I think the clinton people feel this to some extent. They go out and do talk about the issues every day, but we in the media only cover when she attacks donald trump or one of her surrogates shes got this amazing roster of the president and the first lady and joe biden and Elizabeth Warren today. But what did people talking about, Elizabeth Warren, shes just digging in and getting under trumps skin. She said this and that and trumps going to tweet about it. I think there is a lot of frustration. To this idea of the debate, we want it, snl wants it, but its kind of like if the Los Angeles Dodgers said to the cubs, just give us one more game. Its really pretty preposterous. And to beths point, reporters have a duty to try to be fair to both sides in what theyre putting out. On the other hand, if a clown in face paint shows up outside the council on Foreign Relations and says they have a plan to defeat isis, right, it is hard to take it seriously, if thats all you can see. And donald trump did lay out and i asked matt schlapp about it earlier in the hour some proposals that sounded like cleanup government reform proposals over the last few days, but it comes after a period of time where he himself has said policy doesnt matter and hes not running on policy and he has taken every whichway position. So its understandable that the press also looks at that and says, were not necessarily going to cover it like a big policy event that weve been to. And its two weeks before the election. Things are baked into the cake at this point. Donald trump has been very clear about what kind of a candidate he is. Hes a message candidate, a symbols candidate. The wall, the muslim ban. You dont go very deep in policy on any of that, but you know where he stands. And thats why his supporters like him. Why a debate is going to help him . I dont know. He lost all three debates. I think kellyanne thats what the voters found. Right, consistently. It wasnt the press that said that, it was the voters. So now, its a long ball that she would be throwing to maybe get him to, you know, in front of the american public, one more time, 70 million people, to give him another chance. But why would he debate any differently than he did in the first three . You know, ari, the Clinton Campaign has been fantastic at making this about donald trump. And i dont know who he is in the Opposition Research world that has been unleashing these bombs on him for the last couple of months, but its kept him on defensive and really defined it. What they havent been as good about from the very beginning is about a level of message discipline about their policies. Weve got this wall that says Hillary Clinton is for, all these stickies all over it. Thats part of the problem on her website, she has 1 hurricane policies, which is great for a person whos going to be governing, i want my president to have 100 policies, but i want my president to have two or three and talk about those two or three every single day, everywhere she goes, so we all know what she wants to do when shes president. And it may not be disqualifying for office, beth, but you see that in her management style, some of what emerges in the wikileaks emails, which are controversial to really rely on for all the rbs i think people know, is the product of a hack, et cetera. But one of the things you see, its not criminal, not a smoking gun scandal, but what you see is a person who after all this time leading different institutions, including the state department, still struggles to manage a group of people, stay in touch with people. You have senior aides fighting with each other, revealing the emails over whether she will get on the phone with people. I wonder if that combined with thats nothing. Well, heres what i would say to that. What wikileaks is showing us is the daily machinations of the campaign. A lot of it not that visurprisi. But she is a centrist democrat running at a time that the party has moved. Shes kind of running at the wrong time. And her aides and the candidate herself are trying to figure out how she position herself in this environment, which has changed so much even since 2008 when she ran. Briefly . I think in the old days, we used to look at politicians who would find a parade and get in front of it. Now people want in the Democratic Party people who are in the parade and want to push them to the front. Thats going to be the Going Forward way of picking candidates. Is that a fair read on Hillary Clinton . I dont think thats necessarily. I think shes more progressive do you think shes a secret progressive . I dont think its a secret. I think that the things that shes worked for her whole life are progressive things. And i think we see what were seeing is her staff arguing about things. Were not really seeing what shes actually saying. So well, thats because she deleted the emails, joan. You know why the parties so much, more than she has. Jamal, beth, joan, thank you all for joining. Good conversations. Tonight, the Trump Campaign also become with what many think of as a potential preview of trump tv. Im not kidding. Thats real footage youre looking at. Well explain, right after the break. Its esshrimp atred lobster. Witu never saw coming. Illed, gla koreanbq shrimp. And try as much as y want of flors like new parmesan peppercorn shrimp ju come in before it ends. Only those who de drive the wod foard. The cadillac ct6. Mthrough dni und out that ind zucwaonly 16 itali. Estry, went onto ancestry, uropean. So lrned that one of our ancestors we thoht w italian waeaereuropean. Th is my ancesr who i didnt know out. He looks a ltle bit likee, yes. Ance has many ths to discovering your story. Get stard r ee at anryom fight hetburn fast ths chdelights. The mouthwatg so chew that goess to coner heartburn fast. Tutum tum. Chewy delights. On from tums this is why i started. Are we glad that i started . Are we happy . Well, ill let you know on the evening of november 8th where im glad. Donald trump on sunday. You hear it in there, sort of grappling with the prospect of a world after election day, and the press, which gave trump such a boost of attention throughout this campaign is also beginning to wrestle with the same issue. Some reporters are saying, if trump loses, the press should be careful not to fall into the trap of following his postelection controversies and tweets as if he was still a contender. In the Washington Post today, trump addiction is hard habit to break. And New York Times columnist frank bruni proposes that the press had to set some practical goals for how to combat trumps manipulation. Quote, we need rules for quitting him. Guidelines for the circumstances in which coverage out of him is legitimate and those in which it isnt. We cant outright ignore him but tonight we cant roll over for him. Tonight, the Trump Campaign is hosting a Facebook Live show, sort of a tv show online, everybody night. This is Something Like what they did on the night of the last and final debate. Right now, we have, with i think, the right guest to unpack this media political conundrum, new yorker writer, robert hershberger, thanks for being here. Thank you, ari. How does the press deal with someone who is not going to go away in the public sphere if he loses, without distorting the picture that the public should have . Well, i think his problem is really going to take care of itself, largely. I mean, there is something called the media and its a much different animal from what it was when i started first covering politics. Its a hugely fragmented reality, with all kinds of different ways of presenting material and a whole different ecology. Dozens of these things. And i do think that once he is not the republican nominee for president , youre not going to have rallies of 20,000 peoples. Thats that was that was catnip. It was impossible to turn away from that stuff. Mainly, because you never knew what he was going to say. And it was boosting ratings, hugely. Hugely. So there were sort of there was a legitimate news motivation and a notsolegitimate motivation. Do you think the print press also falls into that trap . Because the New York Times writes, well, we cover whats happening, but we dont need him on the front page to sell papers. Were selling papers, anyway. Yeah, theyre selling papers, anyway. The new yorker is selling magazines, anyway. But the straight press, the regular press, the Traditional Press has gone through a lot of soul searching during this campaign, and how to present, how to cover trump. And a lot of outlets that you would never have expected to do this have started to say, to call a lie a lie and to actually take account of reality, instead of he said she said, everything that comes lightning. Well, i want to show. We were looking at this today, and there is a gravitational poll that normally happens with normal nominees, and he isnt one, to be sure. But take a look at News Coverage here in the day after the election. This is newspaper mentions of these losing nominees, both parties, the day after, in the middle 100s. Then to new years day, the next year, its down to a handful, down to six, one, the little yellow dot bar you see on the right is the cratering. The question here is, if thats the norm, if thats accurate, if thats fair, then will the press be making a mistake if they cover him, because i dont think you or i would at all believe that its down to ten reference ifs hes tweeting up a storm or calling himself a president as he rail against corrupt Hillary Clinton. If he behaves differently, i think hell be covered differently. And yes, i think hell get more attention than previously defeated candidates, who do tend to slink off and lick their wounds. We dont know if trump will do that or not. Actually, i have a swigs that he actually might suddenly go all nice after he loses. Because the brand is being damaged very badly. That brand doesnt belong to him alone, but to his whole family. And the family may not want him to continue making a spectacle of himself in a way that is undermining, coming close to destroying the business. Since i have you here, and i always like learning about politics from you. Im going to ask you the bigger question, which is, can donald trump, through this campaign, do you believe, show a way that even if unsuccessful, will be emulated by other republican politicians at the very least, or was this kind of a bug in the system, because of his wealth and celebrity that really isnt emulatable by most people . I dont think most people can make themselves like donald trump, but figures by donald trump will continue to emerge. Theres a concern that hell be john the baptist for the really talented demagogue that comes along next. We see it across the western europe, the type of politician that we havent seen since the 1930s a charismatic strong man, particularly in a mass media age. Rik hertzberg, thank you for joining us. That wraps up our political coverage for this hour. I want you to stay tuned right now, because hardball with Chris Matthews starts right now. Is donald trump the new baghdad bob . Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Chris Matthews out in pittsburgh, where tomorrow ill be interviewing Vice President joe biden whos out on the campaign trail. With just two weeks to go in the race and polls showing a lead for Hillary Clinton, theres at least one person who thinks donald trump is winning. Donald trump. According to trump, the polls are phony and the democrats are trying to discourage his supporters. Here was trump earlier today. Some great polls have just come out. I believe were actually winning. If you read the New York Times and some of these phony papers. These are phony, disgusting, dishonest papers. But if you read this stuff, its like, what are we doing . What are we wasting time for . The truth is, i think were winning. What they do is they sw