Transcripts For MSNBCW Weekends With Alex Witt 20191013

The like. And so, welcome into the msnbc headquarters here in new york. High noon in the east and good morning in the west. We have an alarming escalation with reports of turkey deliberately targeting u. S. Troops in northern syria, and isis prisoners escaping. And now, news from d. C. And what to expect from the testimony of a key figure in the ukraine scandal, and there are some riveting details. And breaking details regarding hunter biden and a big move that he is making that is going to be reported in u today. And we begin with fastmoving developments on the turkey border. Conditions are becoming increasingly dangerous for the 1,000 troops on the ground there, and the u. S. Military is conduct and expedited withdrawal. Richard engel is on the front lines and this is what he told chuck todd on meet the press a short time ago. In a disturbing development, the u. S. Officials telling us that the same militias including al qaeda and other members are advancing farther and close to u. S. Forces. U. S. Forces tell us that unless those forces withdraw immediately, they risk coming into contact with u. S. Troops. U. S. Troops say that their line of communication, and the actual supply line between them and the kurds are at risk of being cut off. This is a serious situation, and it has turned a corner, because of these extremist militias. And defense secretary mark esper said that the president made the call to withdraw. We have also learned in the last 24 hours that the Syrian Forces, excuse me, the Kurdish Forces are, the sdf are looking to cut a deal with the syrians and the russians to counter attack against the turks in the north. So we find ourselves as we have American Forces likely caught between two opposing advancing armies, and it is an untenable situation. I spoke with the president last night after the discussions with the rest of the National Security team, and he directed that we begin a deliberate withdrawal of the forces in syria. Meanwhile, new evidence is emerging of the atrocities of the kurds by the arab militias, and warning that the video is disturbing to watch, and we have blurred the most graphic parts, and this is showing them executing a kurd by the roadside as they shout hallelujah akhbar. And taking a look at this video, prison coming under fire, and detainees scampering for the exits. This is today at the syrian border, and hundreds are escaping under similar circumstances. Hans nichols and matt bradley is standing by. Matt bradley in irbil capital of curd sta kurdistan, and what more are you learning about the isis prison breakouts . Well, there is Something Like 750 to 900 women and children mostly, alex, who have managed to make some kind of jailbreak from what is one of the major camps holding them up in the northeastern syria. This is troubling for a lot of reason, because it is going to put pay to all of the critics of the druTrump Administration say this is what is going to happen. And the isis and some 12,000 hardened jihadis held in camps throughout northern syria, and along with some 58,000 family members who escaped today that are threatening to possibly leave, a possibly reconstitute that caliphate declared over back in march. Now, we need to stress here, alex that these are women and children. These are not among the fighters who are still being held, though there has been video circulating on the social media riots insid the isis prisons, because clearly some of the people feel they can take advantage of the security vacuum. We heard from sdf which is mostly Kurdish Force allied with the u. S. , that guarding the prisoners would be the second priority and the First Priority is to defend themselves from the incursion of the turks coming in to try to take their land and populate it with arab syrians from elsewhere in syria. So if the women and the children from this camp and i dont want to sound sexist here, but if they can take advantage of this, presumably the 12,000 hardened jihadis who have spent the better part of the decade fighting against the kurds and other militaries could exploit the security vacuum to stage their own jailbreak. That is what people in iraq and jordan and all throughout the region is the caliphate reconstitutesing itself. Well, that is not sounding sexist, matt, but realist, and thank you for the assessment. We go do hans nichols, and we know that the president is monitoring this situation, but what is he saying about all of this . Well, last night he gave the explanation of why he is withdrawing the troops and why he wanted to get back to the middle east and going back to the Core Campaign promises. This morning we are hearing two things from the administration, an articulation and enunciation of the new policy in syria, and esper said they are withdrawing from north syria, and also a justification for the old policy, and that is that you had a ribbon of u. S. Troops along the northern border of syria and turkey, and he withdrew them, and the explanation and the justification is that the u. S. Could not ensure their safety, and here is how mr. Esper put it. The United States first of all does not have the forces on hand to stop an invasion of turkey that is 15,000 strong if you will preceded by air strikes and artillery and mechanized forces. You have to keep in mind, too, that we did not sign up to fight turkey, a longstanding nato ally on behalf of the sdf. So they expect the turks to come further south, and expect that the sdf has some sort of arrangement with the assad regime which at this point has not been a major player east of the euphrates river, and the president s twitter feed which is part justification, and part of the importance of drawing down from the foreign wars, but he is also hinting that he understands what is happening on capitol hill. He says that he is talking to lindsey graham, and many members of congress and democrats about imposing powerful sanctions on turkey, and the treasury is ready and other legislation may be sought, and great consensus on this, and turkey is asking that it is not to be done, and stay tuned. That is to me the white house telegraphing and signalling to capitol hill that they understand there is concern about the president s policy, and they hope to somehow solve that concern or at least address it by having the sanctions, and the economic sanctions if and when they are necessary, but remember, the president has not been clear about what red line would set it off, and he said only he knows, and at the same time the secretary of defense says that turkey is pushing south. Hans, in termings of t gs of accuracy stated by the president , didnt he say that all of the u. S. Troops are out of this region, but we have 1,000 there today . No, he saying they are pulled out of the 20mile ribbon of territory, and the border area, and that is where he thought they were coming out, and he described them as 50 to 100, and today the secretary esper made it sound like 20 or 30. A couple of dozen. So the more Significant Development is that all of the troops are pulled further down the south, and syria going to be following the euphrates valley back further to iraq where they expect the two armies to clash, the turkish army which is a nato ally, and the sdf joined. Now, joining me is carol lee, and charlie savage, nbc contributor, and now, carol, you first here. How did things escalate to this point . Is there any sense that the president anticipated these kinds of the repercussions of his decision to withdraw . Well sh, alex, if you are backing up to when he came into the office, he has wanted to do it for a long time, and he has been talked out of it by different advisers and it did not happen here, and he was well aware of the potential consequences thf would s of th and we are a week into when he gave the okay for turkey to cross the border and begin this operation. As you have just shown, it is very confusing, and there is a lot of chaos, and emerging humanitarian crisis, and what is striking with the secretary espers comments is that there is a loss of control, and conceding that turkey is going to do what they were going to do even if the nato ally said dont do this, and that he believed that they would move in to where the u. S. Forces were anyway, and that is suggesting that they have no control here, and because we know that secretary esper and others have been talking to the kurdish counterparts over the last week trying to get this sort of contain and to get turkey to pull back a little bit. And what he said is that they are moving further south and to the west than they want them to b and so what you are seeing is the white house scrambling to put forward some coherent policy, and now it is that they are going to withdraw the u. S. Troops, and though they have not set a timetable, and now the president is facing a situation where there were going to be sanctions against turkey whether he liked it or not, and vetoproof vote in congress for sanctions and now he is saying that he is totally on board with that, because he had essentially no choice, alex. Carol, you have used the word now several times here, and this is feeling like another situation where the president created a crisis with his decision, and now he is proclaiming that they are going to have sanctions against turkey, and like he is going to try to fix something that he broke. Is that a Fair Assessment . Well, it is a good point, because you are right, if you are looking at the statements since turkey started this offensive, he has been trying to say that he is cleaning up a situation that he had nothing to do with and it is turkeys responsibility to deal with the escaped isis fighters and turkeys responsibility not to violate humanitarian crisis or other crisis, and when in effect, turkey could not have done this without President Trump moving the 50 troops that were in the area back a little bit. That is the first step that allowed them to come in. And so now he is saying, he did not start this when he effectively gave the green light for it. And charlie, you had visited this kurdish prison for isis suspects in the region, and what is standing out to you as you are seeing the developments unfolding and what is do you think going through the minds of the kurds . The kurds are feeling that the United States has betrayed them and they are not wrong about that. And i have visited the inf prison and the separate prison where the kurds have been holding the isis fighters with a senatorial delegation which is clearly the center of the fighting now. It appears 1975 sighgon aaigon whole structure and control on the ground is falling apart. And so this is what is going to happen to the isis fighters who have been in kurdish custody. Will they escape . President trump said that they were going to take the dozens and dozens of the worst of them, and there is no indication that happened beyond two british men, and now the ability to get them out has evaporated and i am doubtful that the kurds are going to be particularly feeling like they want to cooperate with the americans right now, anyway, and so it is a bad situation that is getting worse. Are you hearing as we are at msnbc, as well, charlie, that the president is planning for a full u. S. Withdrawal from syria, and that is accelerating now the time line . Well, that is what seems to be discussed publicly from secretary esper, and the United States, and the main road that it goes between turkey, and sorry, syria and iraq, and the main supply convoys, and the Turkish Forces are threatening now, and the sdf, the kurds dont want to have us there as we have betrayed them. He turksr near our troops and the pentagon wants to retreat, and that is what is happening. Okay. Guy, i want you to stay right where we are, and we will talk about impeachment, but as for you, there is more breaking news on that and it is day 20 of the impeachment inquiry, and the battle is growing between capitol hill and the white house. So the am bas fbassador to eu ig to Tell Congress that he didnt know why the assistance was held up or who ordered it. So sondland is going to reportedly say that he quote relied on the president s assurances in good faith, and passed them along when he texted Ukraine Ambassador there is no quid pro quo. And now, we are given some insight earlier to the possible question looming over the ambassador as he is preparing to take the witness chair. I am delighted that he is coming in. We think it is this thursday. I am anticipating and looking forward to what he has to say, because he is key. You understand why the ambassador to tu was the point person on the ukraine . I do not. You have not gotten an answer to that . No, it does not make sense, because obviously, he shouldnt be. And sondlands testimony is to be a busy part of the depositions, and the democrats investigative efforts. And meanwhile, the republicans are dodging questions when asked about the president s call with ukraine. So you think it is legitimate for the president to use a personal attorney to go to a foreign country and seek help for his campaign . As equally legitimate as the democrats going there to say we need to investigate trump and they did, melendez and four other senators. You think that it was a perfect phone call . I think that there were many things discussed. Was it a perfect phone call . The only thing criticized which is definitely not impeachable conduct is the fact that we are tearing the country in half to try to bring down to sitting president because of the house of the impeach, oppose and not pass anything. I have a problem with that. We should pass ucma and look at Prescription Drug prices. And so, now i wanted to look at a couple of points there. There were about five hours to respond when sondland responded and that is when he wrote no quid pro quo, and secondly, the individual said that sondland did not doubt the president or he would not have assured taylor, and yet, they say that he had no independent knowledge whether or not there was really a quid pro quo with taking trump at his word. How does thism testimothis test bode for the president . Well, what we are learning from each person who has testified so far is something new. Every time there is new information is coming out. What is so interesting about ambassador sondland is that as you showed it earlier, it is questionable why he is involved in this because ukraine is not a member of the eu, and he is a staunch trump supporter, and donated thousands of dollars to trumps inaugural committee, and he is an ally of the president , and so that is backdrop here. So what we are seeing here is a little daylight or attempt of him to cover his own self and so he is saying that, you know, he just passed on what the president was saying. That is a very interesting statement. It makes, and you wonder what else he is going to say. And the other thing that we know is that fiona hill who was President Trumps director of russian and european policy on the European Council until this summer is supposed to testify, and she is not a trump ally, but seen as a russian hawk, and policy person and she is according to a person familiar with her testimony this week, she is going to say that sondland and Rudy Giuliani were running a shadow Foreign Policy on ukraine that circumvented the National Security council and including her, and also National Security adviser john bolton, and so somebody is going to have to answer a broad array of questions, and it is not just him, but others with the testimony that is coming this week and the subpoenas. And before i get to you, charlie, hill, because she is a former trump official, might she be covered under the executive power if they say that we dont want you to testify, could that keep her from doing so . It is a great question, because it is easier for the white house the block the current officials from testifying, but the laws are murkier when it comes to former official, and that is why one of the reasons it is going to be interesting how fiona hills case plays out, because that is going to give you the sense of how the former officials including john bolton, the former National Security adviser, and whether congress is going to compel their testimony as well. Charlie, the two points that we made from the reporting of sondlands text, and then what happened and now what he is saying about i, i want your thought about it, and if this is the heart of sondlands testimony, how will the democrats view that in the substance of the impeachment inquiry . Well, the am bas tofr Ukraine Ambassador of ukraine is going to say not in writing, but quid pro quo to hold up military assistance to help in a domestic campaign, and then five hours pass, and sondland says in a stelted almost a lawyer wrote it way, there is no quid pro quo way here, and lets stop writing in text. It is very suspicious looking message. And so if sondland is preparing to Tell Congress that he didnt know that and he was being a stenographer for trump, it is going to make whatever mitigation value that weird message have go further away, but the more broadly interesting thing about it is the sign that sondland is breaking with trump, and he can see the writing on the wall, and he wants his own life, and he is independent wealthy man and he is not a man that everything that he has done professionally has come with his association of trump, and he did not support trump in the campaign, and only after he won did he give the giant check to the inauguration, and so it is a sign of the trumps wall of resistance around this may be cracking. All right. Charlie savage, and carol lee, thank you for breaking this all down for us. Thank you. And as for as the list of members to testify before congress, a bold prediction on our air became a reality and the congressman who made that prediction is next. And also, the moderate with the best shot to win the 2020 has not gotten into the race yet. En into the race yet. Free shipping. You get everything you need for your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, ill take that. Wait honey, no. When you want it. You get a delivery experience you can always count on. You get your perfect find at a price to match, on your own schedule. You get fast and Free Shipping on the things that make your home feel like you. Thats what you get when youve got wayfair. So shop now head in now for applebees new pasta grill combos starting at 9. 99. I in fact had an encounter and it is about the first of august with the state Department Person who told me about the dismissal and the firing of the ambassador. It is said that the lady who was fired who was highly respected was fired because she would not go along with the political activity of the administration that they were trying to force and she thought that it was wrong and she was fired as a point of conscious. That is representative steve cohen right here on the show last month where he was among the first to publicly bring up the issue of Marie Yovanovitch being forced out by the Trump Administration. And now, fast forward where the former ambassador to ukraine was on capitol hill testifying about just that as part of the democrats impeachment inquiry. And joining me is member of the Judiciary Committee representative steve cohen. And as you showed us, you were right there when you confirmed the story for us, but how crucial to the story, that yovanovitch gave testimony directly to lawmakers . Well, she is respected and she left people know that it is the whole giuliani situation that forced her out, a career ambassador who are becoming less and less, and that it is because giuliani running this off of the path diplomacy for path, and you have to wonder why he was doing this around everybody, and using Eu Ambassador who does not have connection to ukraine, and using giuliani and going around the traditional circles, because he knew it was wrong. The process is going to tell you the result, and the process was edgy, sketchy, and to use one of trumps words shifty. Shifty trump was trying to do something on the sides of the state department beneath pompeos direct vision, and certainly out of sight of the American Public. This is someone who, i mean, Marie Yovanovitch was steeped in the culture of ukraine, the legality of ukraine, and everything about ukraine. So it is interesting. She is a professional and she came into the state department when reagan was president in the 1980s and served in bushs state department as an a official. I hope there is not recriminations against her, because he fired mccabe a day before he was going to get his pension. I hope he doesnt do something similar to her. And now, looking at the time line, and this is what congressman steve lui said. If we have to proceed with impeachment, it has to be done by the end of the year. We need additional fill in the blanks, but there is enough to draft at least one article of impeachment on obstruction of justice on the American People, and we will continue to investigate, but we wont basically keep investigating forever. But can the democrats expedite the impeachment process without making it look politica political . Well, it is political, and that is what impeachment is about. I dont think that it is going to looking political, but the republicans look political for not obeying their oath of office and coming on board. So we will go on to get the agenda for building a bert america through the infrastructure projects, and lowering Health Care Prices and tougher gun laws, but right now, we have a obstruction of the constitution. Trump has violated his oath by asking ukraine to help him get information on joe biden who he fear, and we have to support the constitution, and uphold our oath. Apparently the president does not uphold his oath, and so this is a critical time and the constitution has never been in greater jeopardy than today. And now, with the expected hearings this week, with Maria Yovanovitch and also sondland. Well, i think they sondland is going to tell us that trump was involved with him, and he was passing on trumps verbiage, and he decided early on he would use the quid pro quo defense, and sondland didnt know that, but it is more of the same from trump. It is going to sb interesting if sondland does break from him, and fiona hill is who is not considered a confidant or the loyalist of trump will speak up, and i believe it is, and going to break the dam for other people to testify to other misdeeds going on. It is clear that trump does not listen to anybody. We had a secretary fired this week, because he said that the way that the Homeland Security policies were going, it is not appropriate and not perceived the right way. So trump fired him. Trump has fired more people than any people in history in the first term like he has, and he says he hires only the best and the greatest, and he lies all of the time, and gexaggerates. He fires them because he cannot stand anybody else who has attention other than himself. It is Winston Meacham who said that Winston Churchill wanted to be the bride at every wedding and the deceased at every funeral, and trump is about there in that category. And what do you think about the article that says the impeachment has put trump in a different place, and what are you seeing from the tone from president . More harsh than usual or how would you describe it . The president is losing it. He is unraveling in front of the American Public, and at these rallies, it is like a face in the crowd, and like andy griffith, and he could be mussolini and a fascist who is afraid of losing his base, and he will give anything that is not the true, and no law or scripture this man will not violate, and right now, he is being corner and he knew he did wrong. He knew he did wrong in the russia investigation, and obstructed justice, but he has bill barr to lie to the American Public about what the Mueller Report said, and took off enough edge to get through it. He knows no limits, and threatens everything that is good about america, and everything that the constitution stands for, and we have to stand up for a congress, and he is going to be impeached and the senate has to show their colors. And now, getting into the turkey invasion into syria, and we are told that the situation there on the ground is deteriorating rapidly, and what is your reaction to what is happening there since the president pulled the troops out of that area, and gave the green light for one week ago today, and endorsed the military operation against the kurds . Well, the president has an unusual relationship with erdogan and putin and mbs in saudi arabia. He seems to like bad guys, a nn he might have business dealings and we know that he has a trump tower there, but he is responsibility for the retreating. And part of it might be russia who wants to be involved in syria as well. What is happening with the kurds is deplorable, and so sad. They have worked with us. 11,000 kurds died secretary mattis said, they did the heavy lifting and the hard work and working in the trenches for and with us. Yes, they had their own agenda, but they worked with us on our agenda, and we should for our future and just for good just good policy and ethics support the kurds and not leave them with this battle for the turks. There is going to be a lot of deaths and innocent deaths and it is going to go on for a long time, and erdogan wants to wipe them out. I met with the turkish officials who i brought up this buffer zone, and the kurds on one he t there could be a buffer zone, but they were not interested. There is a problem coming forward and it is something that erdogan has. It is not going to help him, and get the pkk more angry, and launching more terrorist attacks in turkey. These things dont work, and the better way is through diplomacy, and erdogan does not operate that way. Thank you for coming on the broadcast, representative cohen. Thank you. And so now confirming that a bloomberg report, and the son joe biden is going to step down from his chinesebacked firm if his father wins the president ial election next year. And now, we go to ali vitali who is there. And before we get to debate details, i want to know more about hunter biden, and what more can you tell us about this . After weeks of the Trump Campaign and the allies beating the drum on Hunter Bidens business dealing, this is the Biden Campaign, and hunter biden is finally dealing with this directly after weeks of insisting that he didnt have to headon. So through the letter from his attorney posted online, he is pledging to avoid any potential conflicts of interest if his father were to win the election in 2020. But alex, i covered the Trump Campaign in 2016, and this entire thing has been a master class of what is it like to run against donald trump, and nothing is off limits, and joe biden is seeing that first hand. He is the person who has pitched himself as the person who is the best position to go up headtohead with donald trump, and we have seen him change over the course of the last few days how he has gone at the president on this issue. We have seen him get more aggressive and direct on the campaign trail, and so it has been a lesson of how donald trump plans to run against the democrats. And joe biden is the first really to get all of the trump ire trained on him. Okay. Lets talk about the debate. What is going to be in the debate, ali, that we have not heard . Any of the candidates on stage with the former Vice President on the stage to be attacked . Well, alex, i am interested less of the buykidebidens fami focal point, and biden has a different landscape on this, because he is involved. So this is an opportunity for him to come out directly, like we have seen him on the campaign trail and be forceful of the way that President Donald Trump has led with other World Leaders on this issue. It is going to interesting how impeachment comes up, and it is a juggling act, and they want to tau talk about holding the president accountable, and they also have to hold the positions, and this is the first debate since the launch of the impeachment inquiry, and so it has been since frozen. We see the theory of the three, the biden, bernie and warren are the three people who are consistently at the top of the polls, but the candidates who are on the stage and not one of those three, this could be a moment for them to break out. We have seen that while Elizabeth Warren has been going unscathed on the debate stages, and overall as the race has gone on, and not face many attacks, but maybe others are telegraming like Amy Klobuchar or andrew yang that they will attack her on policy. I am curious to see if that comes to fruition. Thank you so much, ali. And the legal trouble that Gordon Sondland could be facing when he faces congress this week. When he faces congress th week. With drivewise. It lets you know when you go too fast. And brake too hard. With feedback to help you drive safer. Giving you the power to actually lower your cost. Unfortunately, it cant do anything about that. Now that you know the truth. Are you in good hands . Thats ensure max protein, with high protein and 1 gram sugar. Its a situp, banana bend at the waist im tryin keep it up. Youll get there. Whoahoahoa 30 grams of protein, and one gram of sugar. Ensure max protein. Were oscar mayer deli fresh your very first sandwich,m. 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How do democrats navigate the impending mess before them and the disagreements over this . Gre . President trump has not only honored me with the job of being the u. S. Ambassador to the eu, but he has given me other special assignments including ukraine as i mentioned previously. We have what are the three amigos and that is secretary perry, again, volker and myself and we are tasked with overseeing the ukrainian relationship. And that ambassador to the eu talking about the responsibilities to the ambassador of the eu. And so this is saying that his text of the quid pro quo were conveyed be i the president on the phone. And so while the president was named, so was Rudy Giuliani as the scandals personal player. And so lets bring in Nelson Cunningham who is an adviser for the Biden Campaign. Welcome back, and we have been talking to you a lot recently, but we want to get to your former boss Rudy Giuliani, and i want to talk about Gordon Sondlands testimony and if he can connect the military aid to the investigation of the bidens and how big of a deal is that and somewhat walking it back as it is described earlier by carol lee opening up a door of sunlight to particularly cover his tracks . Well, Gordon Sondland was described last week by a republican as quote the silver lining. His testimony would be the silver lining. Because he himself is a trumpy ambassador, and he made money in the Hotel Business and gave a lot of money to donald trump including 1 million to his inaulg ral committi inaugural committee and he did everything to ally to President Trump. I saw him speak this summer in europe, and he was channelling President Trump dramatically and to the dismay of the European Union officials who were sitting on the panel with him. So it is a surprise to see him putting distance between himself and President Trump as conveyed by the handlers last night before the testimony. And you know, you have worked with former u. S. Ambassadors and seen sondland speak at conferences, and you know how big of a up sposupporter he is s president , and do you know why he would be distancing from trump right now . Well, maybe on the advice of the lawyer, and listen, you are loyal to trump for sure, but dont forget that you are testifying underoath, and perjury is not a place where you want to be in front of the congressional committee. All right. Lets get to the New York Times report that says that your former boss Rudy Giuliani is under investigation for violating laws. He has said that he is unaware of any probe, but how serious of a charge could this be . Could we see a second attorney for the president behind Michael Cohen get indicted . This is incredibly serious. Dont forget that in the last two years, the Justice Department in part of the mueller investigation, and in part because of bill barrs directions, the Justice Department is much more aggressive in going after the foreign agents registration acts violations, and trying to squeeze influence out of the Political Campaigns, and this is a Justice Department priority, and Rudy Giuliani is clearly in the thick of having clients overseas and taking the instructions from them. He says that he is working for President Trump, but it does not mean that he was not also carrying out instructions on behalf of foreign clients including the ukrainians and others. He is in real peril here. Now, interestingly, the president took him to lunch yesterday. At a Trump Country club, and so he is not allowing much room between them. He wants to give him a bear hug and keep him close. This article says that giuliani and the prosecutors have no grounds to charge him with foreign lobbying disclosures, because he was acting on behalf of mr. Trunlmp, so are there clearly no ground s s to prosec him . Well, he is clearly exposing himself here. Just because you are taking the instructions from one client, and in this case, President Trump, doesnt mean that you are not also acting under the influence of foreign clients whose identity should be revealed. Okay. Nelson cunningham, what do you want to bet that you will be on next weekend, because so much going on that we need your expertise. Thank you. Thank you. And new today, comments from adam schiff today that might have the president scrambling to fire off a tweet or two. O. Ive heard a lot of excuses o. To avoid screening for colon cancer. Im not worried. It doesnt run in my family. I can do it next year. No rush. Cologuard is the noninvasive option that finds 92 of colon cancers. You just get the kit in the mail, go to the bathroom, collect your sample, then ship it to the lab. Theres no excuse for waiting. Get screened. Ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. Covered by medicare and most major insurers. count time for one chore [thunder crashing], ah ahh my mower burke the number one. Seen it, covered it. At farmers insurance, we know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. bert mmm. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum to call yourself an explorer . Traveling to the darkest depths of the ocean. Pushing beyond the known horizon. Passing through. Hey mom, can we get froyo . , yeah, froyo. Yes. The allnew 2020 Ford Explorer st. With intelligent 4wd and terrain management system. Its the greatest exploration vehicle of all time. New details about the impeachment inquiry ahead of a big week on capitol hill. Congress set to hear from more key witnesses. That starts tomorrow. Despite the white houses refusal to cooperate. Lets bring in jonathan alter, columnist for daily beast and susan delpersia. Glad to have you here. Jonathan, you first. Weve had a number of democrats saying they have enough for articles of impeachment right now. So, if thats the case, why dont they move forward with a vote . I think so theres an argument they should move forward with a vote to inquiry. They havent taken that full vote in the house. In terms of moving forward on actually voting to impeach, you want that to rypien. You want the peach to ripen, the impeach to ripen because theres Supplemental Information were getting every day. This isnt central. We dont need a smoking gun. We have a smoking artillery range at this point. Theres a tremendous amount of evidence that this president has committed Impeachable Offenses but you want to bring the country along so the timing for that vote to actually impeach him is this winter. Its a little ways off. You know, november, december, january. You heard ted saying on this broadcast, you wants it done bit end of the year. He thinks thats the time frame there. A notable shift from the president , you have the Washington Post writing, quote, even by the standards of this presidency, trump has been operating beyond his oftenuntethered bounds. His twitter feed has been more frantic, his Public Comments angrier, more abusive, his sense of victimhood more visible than ever. What do you think it says about the president s mentality right now and what we might expect as this impeachment probe moves forward . I think it shows the president is scared. He does not know whats going to happen next. He knows people are testifying that he wished werent testifying in front of the house. Even though it is a secure hearing, meaning that its not open to the public. But at this point the president doesnt see a lot of people lining up behind him. Republicans are staying quiet but theyre not endorsing him and his behavior. On syria, i think he realizes now he has made a terrible, terrible mistake. And there is no walking it back. You cannot unkill people who have died, kurds who have died because of the president s actions. But the use of profanity at these campaign rallies, it seems to part of the shift because its become more and more heightened. Do you think more republicans will take issue request this kind of escalation and this rhetoric . Evangelicals, for one. You bring up evangelicals. They are the ones very disappointed in trump and letting him abandon our allies with the kurds. So theyre already very angry at him for that. His behavior, at some point, i agree, i dont know if theyre willing to walk away from the president , but i will tell you whos willing to walk away from the president , and weve seen it in polls, suburban women. They are turning. They have turned on him. Whether it be the talk of what he did with ukraine or the kurds, they care about their issues, and one of them is the president s behavior. Well, look, ive been a suburban woman and im not going to say a bad word hasnt flown out of my mouth but i dont want the president saying it. Thats for darn sure. When you cant let your kids watch the president make an address, thats a problem. It certainly is. Adam schiff is updating plans on plans to lock in that first whistleblowers testimony. Given we already have the call record, we dont know the whistleblower who wasnt on the call to tell us what took place during the call. We have the best evidence of that. We want to make sure we identify other evidence that is pertinent to the withholding of the military support, the attempt to cover this up by hiding it in a classified computer system. We want to uncover the full military conditions or the meeting with the president. It may not be necessary to take steps that might reveal the whistleblowers identity to do that. At democrats at all risking a play into republicans hands if they appear to be backtracking on this . What do you think their best move is . Theyre not backtracking at all. Theyre right to be concerned that the identity of the whistleblower will be compromised by somebody, you know, in that process. And trump has said he wants the Death Penalty for the whistleblower. Hes on record saying that. And so its quite smart for them not to do anything that would risk his identity being exposed. And they dont need his evidence. The thing is, theres yellow tape around that telephone call. Its a crime scene. And the whistleblower has was one stepped removed from that. His testimony, we moved past that. Its not necessary anymore. This inquiry is being broadened. Theres now a criminal investigation the Southern District of new york has opened into Rudy Giuliani and others. Theres nothing bill barr can do about that without exposing himself to an obstruction of justice charge. So, that investigation is going to play out. Theres a cascade of evidence, alex, that is developing as we speak. So, no, the democrats dont have to worry at all about backing off. The wind is moving is at their back. Now you have a president whos given a green light to genocide. You have a whole other issue now. Donald trump is what george w. Bush is to call deep dodo politically. Okay. Were going to leave it there because theres nothing to top that, thats for sure. What his critics feared most about the president s decision on turkey may be coming true. Alleged atrocities and isis running free. Live reports from that region next. Egion next engines rev the only thing better than horsepower. Is more horsepower. engines rev if we were for everyone, wed be for no one. With dodge power dollars, more power means more cash allowance. Purchase now and get 10 per horsepower. Thats 7,970 on the srt challenger hellcat redeye. Its what gives audible themembers an edge. Listening; it opens our minds, changes our perspective, connects us, and pushes us further. The most inspiring minds, the most compelling stories audible. Tailored recommendations, taxefficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. Fidelity wealth management. To help you grow and protect your wealth. Come on lets hide in the attic. No. In the basement. Why cant we just get in the running car . Are you crazy . Lets hide behind the chainsaws. Smart. Yeah. Ok. If youre in a horror movie, you make poor decisions. Its what you do. This was a good idea. Shhhh. Im being quiet. Youre breathing on me if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. Its what you do. Lets go to the cemetery topping the hour, we begin with more breaking news. Another development within the past hour in syria. Nbc news confirms the u. S. Military will now withdrawal all u. S. Troops from syria, not just the front lines of the turkey kurdish conflict. Turkey forces are moving south. Kurdish fighters are moving north. And u. S. Troops are caught right in the middle in increasing danger. We also have learned in the last 24 hours the Syrian Forces intend im sorry, the Kurdish Forces are looking the sdf are looking to cut a deal, if you will, with the syrians and russians to counterattack against the turks in the north. And so we find ourselves as we have American Forces likely caught between two opposing forces. I spoke with the president last night after discussions with the National Security team and he districted that we begin a deliberate withdrawal of forces from northern syria. New evidence is emerging of alleged atrocities. Heres a warning, the video is disturbing to watch. Nbc news has blurred the most graphic forces. It appears to show arab militias executing a kurd by the roadside. Multiple officials teld nbc news that the video appears genuine. They say they include al qaeda and isis supporters. Take a look at this video. Thats an isis prison coming under fire. Detainees scampering for the exits. This was yesterday near the turkey syria border but today hundreds mores escaping under similar circumstances. Theres a lot to discuss with our team of reporters and analysts so well get ryeight t it. Bill neely in erbil, the capital of afghanistan. What are we learning about the withdrawal of troops . Reporter fastmoving developments. It appears from multiple reports that u. S. Troops are already on the move. This announcement from defense secretary mark esper was something of a surprise. He said the president made the decision last night. It was because it would appear the u. S. , it was in some way misled by one ally, turkey, which now says its likely to move further south and further west than it had originally said. And the other former ally of the u. S. , the kurds, have now reached out to russia and to damascus. And, indeed, there are reports coming from damascus that syrian troops are likely to move into the kobani and manbij areas within the next 48 hours. That is obviously a huge boost for president assad. He hasnt been around the kobani area for years. Its obviously, of course, a huge boost, all of this, for president putin. This is a gift to russia. President putin is getting exactly what he always wanted. Hes getting syrian control of the northeast of the country, at least parts of it. And hes getting u. S. Troops out of syria. It is also, of course, a boost for iran. Just one other thing worth mentioning. We can talk about those reports of atrocities, which are coming in. There was an interesting News Conference from or address from president erdogan of turkey today, in which he appeared to rebuke the United States. He remember, the u. S. Had threatened economic sanctions against syria. Erdogan said, those who think they can make turkey turn back its offensive with these threats are gravely mistaken. You know, in terms of u. S. Diplomacy and Foreign Policy, today isnt a great day, alex. You know what, bill, im going to use a tweet that you put out here and you use the brevity of twitter to put out your thoughts on this. If we can have our director put this up on the screen. Breaking, u. S. Defense secretary claims turkey is likely to expand its attack further south than planned and that kurds are trying to ally with russia and assad for help. U. S. Misled by one nato ally and now its former ally is hooking up with russia. Diplomatic failure almost military humiliation. You kron ke you chronicled what you said there, but that last statement, about whom are you speaking . Reporter well, it is extraordinary that, you know, u. S. Warplanes bombed kobani for such a long time to try to get rid of isis. They did so in conjunction with Kurdish Forces on the ground and they took kobani. Now u. S. Forces are pulling out not just of kobani, but of from that entire area. It does not the optics of that are not good. Its obviously not looked good right from the beginning that the u. S. Is walking away from its ally, the sdf, the kurds, the kurds are screaming betrayal. Now it would seem the u. S. Is pulling out from the whole area. And as i say, i suggest that that is a win for assad. Its a win for putin and a win for tehran. Thank you so much, bill kn b. We go to keir simmons. What can you tell us about that isis prison, turkey taking that kurdish town, the prison, a guess a number do we know the specific number of those who were able to escape . Reporter we dont know the specific number, alex, because we know how many isis prisoners were in that camp. Mostly women and children. But we dont know exactly where theyve gone. There were reports from the Turkish Forces they arrived to find the annex where those isis refugees were and thats been deserted. There were pictures of it burning and isis members fleeing. If its all of them, if you like, it will be around the 800, 900 number, so a lot. Weve been looking at exactly who was at that camp and it does include european isis members and irish former soldier called lisa smith, who has a 3yearold child. She worked went from ireland to join isis and was in the camp. Another woman who became known from britain, who became known as the matchmaker. She has two children. She became known as the matchmaker because she became infamous for persuading teenage women to travel to syria to marry isis fighters. She herself had three husbands, all of them killed, isis fighters. In an interview in the last few months at the camp with a british newspaper, she said that many of the isis members of this camp were still sworn jihadis who were determined to get back to the fight. Theyre also in that camp, by the way, where many socalled isis orphans, children, some too young to know exactly what was going on and nowhere to go with both of their parents killed. It is difficult to know where they are. We assume they are fleeing and trying to get away. And i dont think you can assume in any sense that many of them wont try to regroup in some way and that this might be part of a resurgence of isis at some point. In terms of the town the Turkish Forces say they have taken, there are a number of crucial towns along the syrian border, close to where we are, that have been held by the Kurdish Forces for some time. It is important from a Strategic Point of view, for the Turkish Forces and their militia to take those towns as well as the m4 highway running through syria, so the turks are saying they are making progress. The kurds are saying they are fighting back and getting back control of some of these towns. It does appear to be a bitter conflict but one, albeit, very much on the turkish side given the air power and artillery power they have. Thanks for that update, keir simmons. Joining me, the Vice President for National Security and International Policy at the center for american progress. Also former department of defense official. And andy card, former white house chief of staff and an msnbc political analyst. Betsy woodruffswan and peter baker, correspondent for the New York Times and nbc analyst. What a great lineup. Kelly, you worked at the dod so when you hear the latest from the ground on turkey, whats your assessment of the situation . Well, it appears as if were essentially hightailing it under fire, so this is a very disturbing set of developments. And i think its important to take a step back and realize this all began because President Trump in a phone call with erdogan essentially capitulated to erdogans manipulation on this and set into motion a series of consequences that were seeing play out on the ground right now and a set of serious consequences probably will play out in the days ahead as syrians move in, the turks go further south and also the russians, of course, are not going to sit on the sidelines. And what about this news were talking here. Turkey expanding to push further to the south, forcing the kurds, what, to try to ally with russia and assad . Does that make sense to you . I think turkey has its own set of interests its pursuing right now, visavis the kurdish areas. I think its important to understand turks may be able to successfully clear some of these areas. Whether they can actually hold them is a real question. I dont think the Turkish Military actually has the capacity to potentially hold this buffer zone together. This is going to be a huge mess in the coming weeks ahead. Peter, your latest analysis in the New York Times seem pretty spot on here. The headline in syria, trump distills a Foreign Policy of impulse and faces the fallout. Is this news were hearing about today, is it even worse fallout than expected . Well, it was certainly foreseeable. I think a lot of his own allies and advisers told him not just this time but last winter when he was thinking about pulling out of syria that there were consequences if he did so. Particularly if he did so in a precipitous sort of way. Its not new. It shouldnt be a surprise that he wanted to get out. He talked about this a lot. He campaigned on this. He said he wanted to get out of this war. This has been his policy since the beginning. There are a ways to do it. I think a lot of his allies in congress and advisers in administration feel it was done in a way that maximized the possible damage from this. To see the kurds, our friends, allies from the last few years now, turning to moscow and damascus for help is a rather stark change of alignment in the middle east. One that puts us on the outside, isolated instead of the ones driving the train. Americans are tired of war there. Maybe hes right in the sense of channelling popular sentiment but the way this has played out seems almost exactly what his advisers and allies warned would happen if he did this. Andy, most republicans stayed with the president on. How much of a problem could this be for the president . Right now it appears to be a growing disaster. He has clearly realized unintended consequences that were easily anticipated. Im sure the republicans in the senate and the house, who understand how important the kurds were as allies and understand the fragile nature in that part of the world, understood there were going to be consequences. This is very scary to me. This is clearly not going to be good for the United States. Its bad it empowers putin and iranians and syrians to do things they might want to do. And i think its a cancer that could spread in that region. If i were in israel right now, id be worried about whats happening in this part of the world. Betsy, there is one republican who is supporting the president. Lets take a listen to rand paul from earlier today. You know what, we dont have that sound bite right now. I can paraphrase what he said. Actually quote him. I do have is it here. He said its very complicated. Its a messy situation. But a lot of people are not acknowledging turkey was coming in one way or another. So, i think the president was right to move 50 soldiers out of the way of turkish onslaught. Which begs this question to you, betsy, is that really what happened . Rand paul is suggesting turkey was going to go in whether the u. S. Planned to move or not . Thats an argument that Trump Administration officials have made as well. And there were reports this is something the turkish government was telling its american counterparts. Of course, its hard to know whether the turks would have proceeded with this incredibly aggressive, violent and brutal onslaught had the United States not pulled back the troops that we had there in northern syria. Rand paul was asking people to believe in a hypothetical that ultimately on its face is it knowable. We do know paul for his entire career in public life has been one of the few republicans to aggressively oppose interventionist Foreign Policy. Hes been a vocal critic of the u. S. Presence in afghanistan, iraq and syria. And really has advocated to pull troops out of those hot spots. The reason the last week should make senator paul uncomfortable is the net number of american troops in the middle east actually went up because trump sent a significant number of american soldiers to saudi arabia. So for people like paul who want the american footprint in this part of the world to be smaller, last week was not successful. But since hes a close ally of the president , its not surprising to hear him argue sort of from a defeatist perspective that the u. S. Couldnt have done anything, and regardless of our actions, the turks would have proceeded as they have. Most mainstream Foreign Policy thinkers would not agree with pauls analysis there. Peter, is that how you understand it from the white house, that turkey was going in either way . Well, thats right. You have heard them say that. Theyve been intending to go in for a long time and they have not done so because the United States resisted it and left those troops there. Thats the argument. Would they have done so with american troops in the way . Would they have actually taken the chance of killing and injuring american troops, nato ally troops in order to accomplish this . If they were going in any way, you can understand an american president wanting them to get out of the way. Was mr. President really that passive of a player . Was he unable to deter turkey going in or did he choose to . The way it sounds this conversation with president erdogan went to is he seemed to cede to his wishes. Im not going to support you or help you but were not going to stop you either. That was enough of a green light for president erdogan to move in. Nbc reported a few days ago that intel Officials Say isis could regroup after the u. S. Betrayal of the kurds. When the president made this decision, is it your sense that he took into account any advice from any pentagon or intel officials . Absolutely not. I think were seeing that now. To betsys point, i think she makes a great point about the number of u. S. Troops increasing in the middle east. Under President Trump since may there have been 14,000 additional troops added to the middle east so there are 60,000 u. S. Forces. Even these forces with drawing from syria are staying in the region. They arent coming home. I think its an important point to make and it shows you the incoherence, the strategic incoherence of what the president is trying to do. Andy, there was a tweet from the president just a little while ago. Heres how it reads. Very smart not to be involved in the intense fighting along the Turkish Border for a change. Those that mistakenly got us into the middle east wars are still pushing to fight. This president often references the iraq war as being a bad decision and hes using it to justify his decision to pull troops and disengage. Does that have any traction among the public . What goes through your mind, andy, when you hear that . I dont know whether it has traction with the public or not. Thats the wrong thing to view from a president ial point of view. We were allies with the kurds. They stood with us many, many times for 30 years. And we promised them that we would help protect them and we violated that promise as a country. President trump should not have done that. The second thing is, this part of the world is so dangerous that the u. S. Presence there was actually keeping people into a better behaved position. The turks were in a better behaved position. The syrians were in a better behaved position. Right now the saudis are probably worried, the israelis are probably worried and, yes, we dont have any good allies that say they will count on us to be there when they need us. They might not want to be there when we need them. Thats a terrible path to be down. I think that what President Trump has done is very dangerous not only for the United States but for the world. Betsy, the president is also tweeting that hes talking to many members of congress about imposing sanctions on turkey after this. A consequence of his own making, you could argue. Certainly. Thats something Congressional Republicans have very much at front of mind. On top of that, though, theres immense skepticism that the u. S. Leveling sanctions on turkey is going to all of a sudden result in erdogan pulling back his forces and requiring the allied troops fighting alongside turkey in northern syria, you know, honor the geneva convention. U. S. Sanctions are very unlikely to accomplish that in turkey. That said, the Administration Still hasnt leveled sanctions on them. The Trump Administration historically has shown enthusiasm for bringing sanctions and secretary mnuchin will say he revels his role leveling sanctions. These sanctions is something erdogan would find heartening. The u. S. Sided with russia on the ooun Security Council last week to move against censuring or criticizing the erdogan government for moving into northern syria. The idea that the Trump Administrations threats are going to be taken seriously in ankara. Im happy for you to correct me if im wrong but it strikes me as classic trump. Its an interesting situation. As of a week ago, seven days ago, eight days ago, this was not a crisis. It became a crisis after the president made the sdilgs to pull those troops out and, therefore, in effect, clear the way for the turkish incurse. Hes making this argument they would have gone in any way. Thats hard to know. But it feels like its a crisis that didnt exist until he made a decision that opened the door to it. If thats the case, hes left picking up the pieces. Sanctions against turkey would put us at odds even further with a nato ally. We seem to have lost the alliance with the kurds. The russians and syrians and iranians are all cheering today. So, you know, its it begs the question of whether this was handled the right way. It doesnt necessarily mean its wrong that its time to get out of the middle east. Thats what he ran on. But the way it is worse off than a week ago. Is it simplifying it too much to say trump created this crisis . Absolutely not. Hes the arsonist and firefighter. Thats how hes done it on everything, north korea policy, china policy, the trade war, everything across the trump Foreign Policy seems to follow this pattern. He makes these impulsive decisions and then has to deal with the consequences of them and try to pretend as if it wasnt his fault and it was someone elses fault or someone elses decision. I think what were seeing here is National Security and interNational Security is a serious thing. And when the president makes a decision, there are consequences to that decision. Its playing out, unfortunately, very tragically for our kurdish allies on the ground, our troops on the ground and everybody else in the middle east. So i think the chances of trump actually fixing it at this stage is probably pretty low. I want to think bill and keir simmons for helping us out with their reporting. The four on the panel, please stay with me as we talk about impeachment. Lets get to that as there is more breaking news on that front. Day 20 of the impeachment inquiry. The battle is growing between capitol hill and the white house. Theres new reaction today as democrats prepare for more depositions and deadlines. Democratic senator van holland giving a look at where things stand now as his colleagues in the house invest great. What wie seen from the president in that transcript and other actions is a president white house abusing his power. The hearings will have to collect the evidence and the president in the white house will have an opportunity to put forward any exculpatory evidence they want. I wont reach any final conclusion until all the evidence is in, but the evidence is in is very damning of the president s actions. You have republicans str strugging to give answers to one question. Is it wrong for a u. S. President to ask a foreign leader to investigate a political rival. Heres that. You think its perfectly legitimate for the president to use his personal attorney to go to a foreign country and seek help for a Political Campaign . I think its equally as legitimate as the democrats going there and saying, hey, we should investigate trump. They did. Menendez i think there was a lot of important do you think that was a perfect phone call . Again, i believe that that conversation the only thing thats being criticized, by the way, which is definitely impeachable conduct, the fact were tearing the country in half trying to bring down a sitting president. Also breaking today, new reporting from nbc news on the muchanticipated testimony of Gordon Sondland. Lets go to nbc White House Correspondent Kelly Odonnell who has more on what the ambassador to the eu is telling impeachment committees. Welcome. Reporter good to with you. Theres a highstakes anticipation about sondlands testimony, in part, because he came to the role as ambassador to the European Union as a trump supporter and donator. It makes him not the kind of foreign official that weve seen in other parts of this ukraine u. S. Drama. What he has to say will be important. Also because he, in an exchange with some of his comrades at the time talking through Text Messages, comrades is a poor choice of words on my part, but some of his colleagues, that there was no quid pro quo. That is something that the president has really hung his hat on. Focused on the idea that there was not some important exchange of whether it be military aid or Something Else in order to get ukraines help with this investigation the president sought. Now what sondland will say about this, under oath in a sxodeposin before congress is critical. What we learned, according to sources close to sondland, he will say while there was no quid pro quo, he couldnt ascertain if that, in fact, was the truth. That is a bit of daylight between himself and the president that democrats will certainly want to explore and potentially exploit. Eliot engel is certainly looking toward to hearing from sondland. Heres what he said a short time ago. Im delighted that hes coming in. We think it will be this thursday. Im anticipating im looking forward to hearing what he has to say because hes certainly key. Do you understand why the ambassador to eu was the point person on you sdmran. I dont. You have not gotten an answer to that question . No, no. It doesnt make sense because, obviously, he shouldnt be. Reporter sondland has said in the past that even though he was ambassador to the eu and ukraine wasnt a part of the European Union, his work was in conjunction with kurt volker and secretary perry, Energy Secretary for the president. They were tasked, in addition to their defined roles, to do this work on behalf of the president in ukraine. Thats something that he can answer for when he is under oath and appearing before the committee. There was a subpoena, of course, involved in this. At first he said he was not permitted by the administration to speak and now hes going to honor that subpoena based on our reporting and other news organizations as well. And so the rekeal key will be, d the words he used, no quid pro quo, hold up to the understanding. It looks like a crack in what he has said when the president has leaned so heavily on those words to be part of his defense. Alex . You hit the money question, clarifying what thats all about. Kelly odonnell, thank you. Also, i appreciate the email you sent me clarifying that one point. Back with me, kelly, andy card, betsy woodruffswan, congratulations to you, betsy, on that and then peter baker. I have a question for each of you. Maybe a followup. Andy, the other day you suggested you agreed with this impeachment inquiry going forward. The president s actions in that ukraine phone call warranted it. Explain a little bit of your thinking. First of all, i agree with the investigation going forward, but i want it to be done with a vote by congress to do it so that the minority, the republicans, have the right to call witnesses and the president would have more rights in terms of having his counsel presence. They should do it like other impeachments have been. Nobody will be surprised if the democrats say they want to impeach. The question is, what does the house want to do . What does the house of representatives, people who represent us, i think they should be a vote by congress, there should be a process that is fair and will objectively discover the truth and expose it and move forward. I dont know whether what the president did is an Impeachable Offense. I think it should be investigated. It should be investigated by what other people call a c kangaroo court. Why is the Judiciary Committee cut out when it should be leading the effort . I want it to go the right way. And lets deal with the truth, expose the truth. Do you get republicans agreeing with you privately but publicly refusing to speak out . Yes and no. People wonder i dont like impeachment. I think it shouldnt happen because its bad for democracy. Im the chairman of the National Endowment for democracy. I want the peoples voice to be the one that makes a difference, not a small group of people in an impeachment process or senate. I want the ballot box to determine who our leader is. Thats where id like to be. But there are questions and they should be investigated and exposed. I dont know if its an Impeachable Offense but people should look at it in a fair and open way. Right now its onesided. Its the democrats doing it. And i think Speaker Pelosi made a mistake by not calling for a full vote . The house to move forward with rules that will allow the minority to have rights as well. Kelly, following up onreport anything we know that might of of substance to the impeachment inquiry or the white houses defense . I think it will be interesting to see if ambassador sondland can explain why he decided to call President Trump after the text from bill taylor, suggesting this was extortion and probably shouldnt be done. I would like to know why he called President Trump. Thats not that normal for an ambassador to reach back to washington and call the president of the United States. Maybe theyll call the secretary of state at best. Id like to know why he did that, what the contents of that call was, what the instruction was from President Trump. I think there will be a lot around the circumstances of that phone call. Earlier today senator cruz was asked about the president s request to look into former Vice President joe biden. Heres what he said about that. Chooina is a surveillance state. Is it appropriate for the president to say china should look into the biden family . Is that appropriate . Look, of course not. Elections in the u. S. Should be decided but by americans and its not the business of foreign countries, any foreign countries, to be interfering in our elections. You know, betsy, republicans have pretty much struggled to align on their responses to trumps request to have chinese and ukrainian officials investigate biden and his son. What do you make of ted cruzs response . Its remarkably frank and candid. And it sort of distinguishes him from a number of the other republicans who appeared on the sunday shows this morning who sort of hemmed and hawed and tried to draw equivalence between communication between Democratic National folks and ukrainians. The reality is, as cruz has pointed out, privately, most significant majority of republicans are uncomfortable, especially with the president asking the Chinese Government, which is not an ally of the United States whatsoever, to scrutinize hunter biden. Cruz distinguished himself with that remark this morning, especially for the level of candor there. But is that unique, peter, in your mind . Way in on the republican responses and the lack thereof. I think you see the difference between the response on syria and the response on this ukraine and now china issue. And the difference is syria, they have been very outspoken and they have been very forthright of their criticism of whats going on. Theyre not as much on the ukraine thing because thats an existential threat. Thats an existential threat to the president and they recognize that to take him on on that issue is to really cross a line that would be challenging, potentially dangerous. That doesnt mean behind closed scenes they arent troubled. Some say the media are making too much of it, were taking it too seriously, were seeing connections where there arent. But i interviewed secretary card and nine other white house officials to ask them, is this something that strikes you as unusual . All ten said nothing like that has happened in the white house since they served, republican and democratic. I think thats why its drawing a lot of scrutiny. Betsy, you and jonathan, quite a dynamic duo. Best wishes to you both. Its great. Anyway, did the president use Government Resources to chase conspiracy theories about plots against him . That story coming up. That story coming up do you recall, not long ago we would walk on the sidewalk all around the wind blows we would only hold on to let go blow a kiss into the sun we need someone to lean on blow a kiss into the sun we needed somebody to lean on all we need is someone to lean on you ever wish you werent a motaur . Sure. Sometimes i wish i had legs like you. Yeah, like a regular person. No. Still half bike half man, just the opposite. Oh, so the legs on the bottom and motorcycle on the top . Yeah. Yeah, i could see that. For those who were born to ride, theres progressive. Theres a reason why investigations and grand jury proceedings, for example, and i think this is analogous to a grand jury proceeding, are done out of the public view initially. Now, we may very well call some of the same witnesses or all the same witnesses in public hearings as well. But we want to make sure we meet the needs of the investigation. Adam schiff defending the closeddoor hearings democrats have been holding as part of his impeachment inquiry into the president. This as lawmakers were here for another busy week with what could be filled with nor explosive testimony. Joining me now, california representative. Happy sunday to you. Your committee has taken part in these closeddoor hearings alongside intel and the foreign affairs. You heard chairman schiff say some witnesses could be back for public hearings. What kind of factors would go into making a determination like that . I think the big concern is that adam schiff is worried about starts back with the president taking exception to the whistleblower trying to get the identity of the whistleblower and those surrounding him, trying to do a search within his administration as to who was providing information. Because of that, theres real concerns about how we move forward in this process. I do support congressman schiffs goals here to make sure we protect those individuals. If that has to be done with closed hearings, thats exactly what we should do. I want to play for you Something Else chairman schiff said earlier. Take a listen to this. Given that we already have the call record, we dont know the whistleblower who wasnt on the call to tell us what took place on the call. We have the best evidence of that. We do want to make sure we identify other evidence that is pertinent to the withhelding of the military support, hiding this in a classified computer system. We want to make sure we uncover the full details of the conditionality of the military aid or meeting with ukraines president. It may not be necessary to take steps to reveal the whistleblowers identity to do that. Yes or no, do you agree the whistleblower is no longer a witness democrats need to talk to and why . Thats exactly the point hes making. Look, weve got the facts are very clear. The president has admitted what took place and what transpired. Second, the law is very clear that he broke the law. As we peel back the layers of this onion and find out more and more evidence supporting the allegations and the attempted coverup, i think this is exactly the the exact course we should be taking with congressman schiff. How about other whistleblowers, there are others reportedly set to come forward. Do we need to hear from them . Alex, yes. Thats what we will see take place this week. And i wouldnt characterize them as whistleblowers, but with the upcoming depositions that we have, and additional hearings, as well as hopes of getting additional documentation so we can have a full understanding. So, the American People can have a full understanding of how far this president will go in running a shadow operation to get dirt on a political opponent is where we need to get to. I want to get more on the hearings in a second but i want to ask you if you think theres enough evidence already to bring forward articles of impeachment . I do. And i think it is very, very clear. Again, the facts are not in deba debate. The president of the United States on at least two occasions has requested foreign governments to interfere in our elections. That is not even open for debate. Second, it is clearly against the law. So, what we need right now is good republicans to stand up and do whats right. And, you know, they can have the debate as to whether breaking that law is an Impeachable Offense. But lets have them go on record with the American Public and speak out against this conduct by this president. Okay. A couple of those who this week are expected to take part in hearings in front of your committee, fiona hill and Gordon Sondland. What information do you need to find out from them to push this investigation forward . Were seeing initial information coming out that hes going to speak to the fact that the president of the United States specifically asked him to say in a phone conversation excuse me, via text that there was no quid pro quo. Its clear that as the president continues to try and cover up whats going on here, that hes trying to hang his hat that there was, quote, no quid pro quo, which is not even needed for the evidence that he obstructed the law and broke the law. So, i think thats going to be interesting to see how that testimony comes out. Secondly, with mrs. Hill dr. Hill, her testimony is going to help us understand the process of how others have been brought into this to, again, run a shadow shat operation with giuliani and others. I know you suggested during a sirius xm interview that attorney general barr and Rupert Murdoch should be investigated. Why . What do you fear would be at the root of this meeting . What kind of red flags are you seeing . I find it preposterous that attorney general barr would meet with Rupert Murdoch. Lets think about this for a second. The attorney general is supposed to be the attorney general for the American Public. Not the white house, not the president. And at the same time, the president is speaking out against fox not having his back. And the same time fox is losing one of its best journalists because of the propaganda thats put out through the opinionmakers. The attorney general meets with Rupert Murdoch. We should know what the purpose of that meeting was. How was that furthering justice in the United States via his department . Yeah, im going to second that also. Losing shep smith is a big loss for the network. Can i ask what you think might have happened in that meeting . What is it that you think went on . I dont want to speculate. I think we can all speculate on our own time. I think it would be unfair. I think the best way to avoid speculation is for attorney general barr to be candid and honest and transparent with the American Public as to who set that meeting up, why was it set up and what was the information that was exchanged . Once we have that information, we can then make a clear assessment as to whether that was in the best interest of the American Public. All right. California congressman harley rouda, i enjoy our conversations. Lets go to breaking news from the 2020 trail. Nbc news confirming bidens son hunter will step down from a chinesebacked firm on october 31st, in response to growing controversy. Hunter bidens attorney out with that update and another promise that would take effect potentially under a biden presidency. Nbc is in altoona, iowa, at th united commercial food forum. Mike, you coauthored this report about hunter biden. What more can you tell us about it . Reporter well, its so interesting. I think what we see in this Statement Today is an indication of how this story and how the Biden Campaign and biden family evolved about how theyre addressing Hunter Bidens relationship. Three weeks ago we were in iowa and the first news were breaking about the president s calls with ukrainian president seeking investigation of hunter biden. Joe biden was on the defense about his sons relationship, saying no one said anything was done wrong here. Were asking the wrong questions, the focus needs to be on the president and his own conduct. There were some lingering questions about Hunter Bidens relationship they wanted to clear up. This statement for hunter biden is explaining in detail his relationship with burisma and a Chinese Group with ties to the Chinese Government as well. There are three important points this statement goes on to make. The first is hunter biden saying that he believed he was acting appropriately in all of his business relationships and in good faith and he never anticipated the barrage of false charges from the president and his allies. Secondly, he says he would comply with in and all guidelines and standards of a Biden Administration in terms of his own business relationships. But in the meantime, he would agree not to serve on any boards or work on behalf of any foreignowned companies. Lastly, hes saying he would keep he would continue to keep his father personally uninvolved in any of his business relationships. Its interesting, on the last two points, thats where youre seeing the Biden Campaign quietly turn the question back to the president and their own family and whether theyre willing to make the same commitments as well. Mike, thank you. And ill thank you in advance for keeping an eye on that forum and getting back to us. With the impeachment inquiry racing forward, the president is making a new claim about House Speaker Nancy Pelosis plan. Here he is at the values voter summit last night. To those of you that think she was reasoned for the last six months, you know, when she said, no, no, no, we need more i said, shes going to do it. She just wants to have it closer to the election. Shes going to do it. Not a good person. Lets bring in democratic strategist don cal low way, bill press, and republican strategist susan del percio returns, an msnbc political analyst. Bill, is there any reason to think democrats would be waiting to have the vote closer to the election . No, absolutely not. I think the farther away from the election, the better for democrats, actually. Nancy pelosi, to say she delayed this because she wanted to hold it until closer to the election, theres no evidence behind most of what he says. No evidence certainly behind that. What put nancy pelosi over the edge was Donald Trumps call to the president of ukraine where he asked him to do him a favor by investigating Donald Trumps political opponent. That is illegal. That, i believe, is an Impeachable Offense. Nancy pelosi finally got to the point where she said, we just cannot wait any longer or ignore this. This is this demands an impeachment inquiry. What could be the strategy behind the president saying, well, the democrats want to have the Impeachment Vote closer to the election . The president has no strategy. He just says what comes to mind. I mean, i started to laugh when you asked the question. Not disrespectful to you, alex, but the president has not shown any sense of strategy. Look what he did to the kurds just over a phone call with the president of turkey. The man just says whats off the top of his head and does not think of the actions the consequen consequences of his actions. He will say anything that he thinks sounds good to republicans that hurt nancy pelosi. Former Senate Majority leader harry reid is weighing in on President Trump. Lets take a look at what hes saying. I used to think that donald trump was not too smart. I certainly dont believe that anymore. I dont think hes intellectually a power house, but he is basically a very, very smart man. No matter what the subject, any argument he involves himself in, its on his terms. Youre always arguing against him. He never, never is willing to debate an issue on terms that arent his. And earlier today on the subject of the president s latest remarks, nbc political reporter allan smith raised this example. Take a listen. This is actually classic trump. You go back to one of the first president ial debates in 2016 where Hillary Clinton accused him of being a puppet for russia and the president s response was, no puppet, youre the puppet. So, you know, is reid right . Is allan right . Are democrats any more prepared to combat this behavior now . No, democrats are no more prepared to combat the behavior than they were in 2016 because democrats are committed to taking the high road from a messaging perspective. Frankly, i think thats the right thing to do. Count me among those. Were not just willing to get down on his level and punch. First of all, shout out to harry reids kangel, that was cool. I would just point out, i understand where harry reid is going in saying the president is smart, but to me that doesnt equate to intellect. To me, he knows his base. He knows as long as he continues to stay in the mud and punch people and say and call bad names and rile up his base in the way that despicable to me, in the way they do, thats all he needs to do. He doesnt need to speed speak to facts. He doesnt need highminded issues, domestic or foreign. Thats not what hes here for. Hes very comfortable in his role, knowing what his base wants to hear from him. I dont think that amounts to intellect like harry reid said. Two different definitions of intelle intellect. Whats your take on this, bill . First of all, i think obany serious subject, if you wanted to sit down with donald trump and have a conversation, you might as well sit down with a rock. Hes incapable of holding an intelligent conversation. But i think harry reid is right when it comes to street smarts. Hes a street fighter. He learned it from roy kohn. Hes now applying it in politics. He would not be where he is if he was not very smart in sensing the weakness of his opponent and going for the jugular and kill, kill, kill. Thats who he is. He wouldnt be where he is if he werent smart with street smarts. All three of you are smart, and thats in every way that smart is smart. All right, thank you. Good to see you all. Thank you so much. Next, a new report on how President Trump is using the government to push conspiracy theories, putting his presidency in peril. So it is day 20 of the impeachment inquiry into the president , and as House Democrats collect Text Messages and public statements and other documents to support the investigation, were getting a clearer picture of the ways the president may have used the government to advance unconfirmed conspiracy theories behind issues that put his presidency at risk. Reuters National Security correspondent jonathan helped break down the details in the piece. Jonathan joins me now. Welcome to you. I know you write about a few of the conspiracy theories the president seemed to have fueled. That includes crowdstrike, a theory that the Russian Investigation was a hoax, and then the theory that democrats were ghost writing the whistleblowers complaint about his call with ukrainian president. Talk a little bit about these theories and how they have shaped the impeachment inquiry into this president. So these theories have been around for quite some time. We have seen them emerge as early as 2016, 2017, in far right social media. You know, the fringes of farright social media and they made their way gradually into the being the centerpiece of President Trump, this investigation that he has been conducting along with Rudy Giuliani and have been employing machinery of government to actually try and verify what are these unsubstantiated theories. The one about crowdstrike goes somewhere along the lines that now crowdstrike, a Cybersecurity Firm that was hired by the Democratic National committee to investigate the hacking of its servers, mr. Trump raised this in his telephone call on july 25th with the president of ukraine. Asking him about this theory that the dnc server somehow migrated from the United States to ukraine itself. That theory has and thats part of this idea that ukraine, not russia, intervened in the 2016 election on behalf of Hillary Clinton. That theory has been discredited and that was noted even by trumps former Homeland Security adviser, who said it had been thoroughly debunked and that officials had tried to dissuade President Trump from pushing that theory as well. That one, im glad you went through. The other two a lot of people might be familiar with. You talk about these being something that evolves from the very dark and anonymous corners of the internet. How is the president using these theories to his advantage . What kind of effect is it having on the country . It is he is using it to justify his opposition to the democratled impeachment inquiry in the house, which is in fact focused on the fact that he and his private attorney, Rudy Giuliani, and their allies have been promoting these theories as they push for as they pushed for trying to get ukrainian president zelensky to investigate them. Now, we understand that he has asked the chinese to do this. His attorney general, william barr, has been to italy, has been to britain, to try and investigate another one of these conspiracy theories having to do with a missing professor named mifsud, this was the guy that apparently told george papadopoulos, a former campaign aide, that the russians had dirt on Hillary Clinton. I tell you, its an extraordinary article. Im glad we got into a little bit of it. Would love to have you back again. Thank you for joining me at this point. Nbc news confirms the u. S. Military will withdraw all u. S. Troops from syria and not just from the front lines of the turkey kurdish conflict. We have a live report from the region next. You get straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, taxefficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. Fidelity wealth management. For your worst sore throat pain and protect your wealth. Try Vicks Vapocool drops. Its not candy, its powerful relief. Ahhhhhh vaporize sore throat pain with Vicks Vapocool drops. Outdated. The paperwork. The calling for everything. The searching for id cards. Its like youre stuck in the 90s. Thats why esurance makes it simple with an app that has everything you need because thats how we live nowadays. Rad. Your id card is on a bodacious tiny future tv. Wow youre really committed to this whole 90s thing, arent ya . No, im just saying whats in the script. Thats true. Everything were sayings in the script. When insurance is simple, its surprisingly painless. Some things are too important to do yourself. Get customized security with 24 7 monitoring from xfinity home. Awarded the best professionally installed system by cnet. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Call, click or visit a store today. All out of time here on weekends with alex witt. My colleague Kendis Gibson is ready to continue on such a busy day. Thanks to you. Hello, everyone. Im Kendis Gibson in new york where its 2 00 p. M. , and 9 00 at night on the syrian Turkish Border right now. Conditions in the region deteriorating just as all u. S. Troops in northeast syria are ordered to evacuate the country entirely. This as hundreds of isis prisoners escape. Trumps former secretary of defense is issuing a warning on what some intel Officials Say is a u. S. Betrayal of kurds in syria. Heres jim mattis with chuck todd. Isis is not defeated. We have got to keep the pressure on isis so they dont recover. Well have more on that exclusive interview coming up. Plus, new reporting on what our ambassador to the European Union will say