June 22nd, im ali velshi. In 2024, donald trump primary elections, fundraising events criminal and civil trials, the current 2024 republican front runner will be campaigning to get himself back in the white house while juggling a number of Quarter Pharynxes and criminal trials in different states. Just yesterday, aileen cannon, the federal judge presiding over the classified documents investigation said a trial date for next spring, may 20th 2024. On top of that, trump will likely soon be indicted by a third time in the coming weeks or even days they can him a defendant in three criminal trials, all before The General Election next november. Trump announced that he received a Target Letter from the special prosecutor jack smith, the Charge Letter is almost always an indication that the person to whom the letter is addressed will soon face criminal charges. With us to have, years we have learned a lot about trump and his teams attempts to subvert democracy. Which culminated with the insurrection at the Capitol On January 6th 2021. But, jack smiths team is still uncovering the full scope and the people who were either involved in or when its to trumps attempts to dismantle democracy, on thursday The Grand Jury in washington d. C. Her testimony from william russell, that is the sky here. He is a little personal aide and Ship Director who began working for trump and the white house in early 2020. He remains his aide to this day, notably russell was with trump for at least part of the day on january 6th. You can see he here with trump at the ellipse. Where trump gave an incendiary speech shortly before the insurrection began. Nbc news has learned that prosecutors questioned russell about trumps State Of Mind during and after the 2020 election. A Crucial Point in determining if trump knew he lost the election and still spread lies about voter fraud. With corrupt intent. The insurrection at the capitol was a shock to the system, but as we now understand, it wasnt a spontaneous instant, it was an act of coordinated assault. Carried out by desperate, defeated president trying to cling to power. And the plan to deny joe biden the presidency was complex. It involves the sustained effort to spread dangerous lies about Election Fraud that persist to this day. Plans are underway for fake electors with fake documents to disrupt official proceedings in multiple swing states, all in names of donald trump. There was even a Pressure Campaign to get elected officials like georgia Secretary Of State, a republican crap brad raffensperger, to find, in Donald Trumps words, enough votes to overturn nbc news has now also confirmed a story first reported by the Washington Post that Georgia Governor Brian Kemp was recently contacted by the Special Counsels office in regards to trumps efforts to interfere with the peaceful transition of power. This investigation is much more intricate and complicated compared to the other two cases for which trump has already been indicted, and the complexity of this case is reflected in the three statutes and potential criminal charges outlined in the Target Letter that smith sent to trump. One, witness tampering. To, Conspiracy To Defraud the United States. Three, deprivation of rights under color of law. A charge that would come as somewhat of a surprise. It is not one of the four charges that the January 6th Committee issued in its criminal referral to the Justice Department, last year, nor is it one that has been discussed extensively in connection with this case. Per the statute quote, under cover of any law, the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunity secured or protected by the constitution or laws of the United States, and quote is a crime. And makes it illegal to deny someone their constitutional right, like the right to vote. The law actually dates back to the post civil war reconstruction era when it was used to prosecute people, including members of the ku klux klan who intimidated and terrorized former slaves from exercising the right to vote. It has since been used in other cases involving voter fraud and other efforts to meddle with elections which certainly sounds relevant to this case. But it remains to be seen exactly for What Conduct Smith may be charging trump with this statute. Joining me now is mcquade, a former United States attorney. Shes also an msnbc legal analyst and the coast of the sistersinlaw podcaster. Also with us is donald, former deputy unite states attorney general under president george h. W. Bush. He also recently cowrote a Model Prosecution Memo assessing the possible charges that trump could face in relation to his efforts to interfere with the peaceful transition of power after the 2020 election. Good morning to both of you, thank you for being with us. Donald, let me start with you, talk to me about this Model Prosecution Memo that you helped to put together. There is some overlap with your memo and what is reportedly in this Target Letter. A deprivation of rights under the color of law isnt one of them. Take a look at this, tell me about this statute and how it fits together with your memo. Well, the memo that we wrote was an effort to take what you actually described as a lot of pretty complicated facts and present a path, one path. She wrote another memo year ago when she did something similar when we knew what we knew then. Suing a path that is practical and concise and a way to go forward. The statutes that we identified were the ones that look to us like the ones that could be put together with a selective collection of the facts to tell a story in a way that wouldnt take many, many, many weeks. So, i want to make one note though. That is, excuse me, the statute that i had read about in the papers recently is 2 41 which doesnt require conduct under color of law. It is the old ku klux klan statute and it talks about two or more people conspiring to do what they do including intimidating people in exercise of the rights. Another statute that is also similarly titled which is under color of law and im pretty skeptical that jack smith is likely to file charges claiming trump acted under color of law because he didnt have any authority to do that. Im interested to hear barbara s thoughts on that as well. Thats perfect timing, because barbara is right there. Barbara, lets talk about that. The distinctions between these statutes. 18 to 41, 2 42. This idea of a deprivation of rights under color of law. Which is just one of those things that there are so many things over the years, my viewer and we had never heard of this before. It could be that we come to hear a lot about it. What is your take . Well i dont know whether it is 2 41 or 2 42, ive heard reporting that suggests one or the other. But i think it may not matter because whatever when they are going to use, i think even if donald trump was pretending to use the color of law, he did black that authority. It is the same statute that gets used by Police Officers who exceed their authority when they engage in police brutality. They use their batch and claim the color of law, even though they lack the authority to abuse peoples rights. I think either one of these might work. What i think is particularly interesting about the use of either of these statutes and why it might be a really brilliant move by jack smith is, i think they can make out this case without proving that donald trump moved he had lost the election. For Conspiracy To Defraud the United States, you have to show that he was acting on that lie. As long as you can show that he was trying to do a run around the process, you can show a violation of this statute. For example, asking raffensperger to find 7000 votes, he may have generally believed that he somehow turned them, some of the stolen, but he knew that process wasnt the way you do it. The Secretary Of State can just declare, im just going to give you an extra 11,000 that you need. That i think could be a really good statute because if a jury does not find that the government has proved that donald trump knew he had lost the election, they can still win under the statute. I think this is a really interesting conversation that ive been wanting to have, donald. This idea that donald trump, whether look, if you ask me, i think but if he didnt know, he still knew that things he was asking people to do were illegal. I guess if somehow you are fighting some major injustice and maybe you are a civil rights activists or maybe you are nelson mandela, or monthly talking, you understand youre doing things to break the law to get to a finer and. But in this case, donald trump had access to the courts, he tried many, many times between the election and january 6th. So whether or not he believed that he won the election, im wondering how important a jury needs to feel that is. Well, i agree. I dont think it is required to be i think it is an important underlying fact. I think what we have seen, i think what we know from the record of what is out there in the media is there is a lot of evidence that he did know that he was told by many, many people, including his closest advisers, including bill barr. He said things apparently that indicated he knew that in fact he had lost the election. I think back to this 2 41, 2 42 question, i think perhaps, and this is really now in the realm of speculation. One thing that jackson with can do with those statutes, particularly with 2 41, which i think clearly has no color of Law Requirement to it, is he can focus with those statutes on the Intimidation Act that trump engaged in. Intimidating mike pence, the things he said and tweeted about pence, his intimidation of raffensperger, his intimidation of other state officials. Of course, i also think those statutes, 2 41 in particular, have been used more generally with efforts to essentially deny peoples votes, their effectiveness being counted. I think they might go that broad route. But i think he is more likely to focus on the specific acts which are so heinous and so outrageous. To the point, Barbara Last Night when i was in for chris hayes on late night, i played that recording that we have all heard of the finding of the 11,700 votes, talking to brad or raffensperger. The language and the tone in all of that, it sounds like it was scripted for movie. It sounded like mob top. There were implications, there were ideas. This is gonna be bad for you brad, it is gonna be worse than it is for the American People and all that stuff. It makes for a good narrative, it is going to make for a great documentary, its gonna make for a great movie. Is that stuff relevant . And tell me about the other side of that, because Donald Trumps interview with a lot of people will not be named as coconspirators. But were in the room and listening to these conversations. Yeah, i think one thing to alis, we have usually heard experts of this call a. I want you to find me 11,700 votes. I listen to the whole tape, its about an hour long and i dont know to play the whole tape for the jury but my guess is that they will play more than just that one little segment. In court they have all day, they will play as much of it as they need to, if you listen over the course of the hour, he is absolutely relentless. Every time that raffensperger pushes back, he says no, im sorry mister president , we have counted the votes, those things youre saying are not true. I am confident in the data. Hes pushing back and he even says things to suggest that he is threatening Brad Raffenspergers political future. So i think that is where i think the intimidation comes in. Im sure that Donald Trumps defense will be, i thought i was entitled to this, but as you say, that is essentially Civil Disobedience and Civil Disobedience is a wonderful thing when it is used for noble ends, but even those people go to jail. Those in power went to jail, Martin Luther king went to the birmingham jail. They are willing to pay the price to make a larger point. And so, it is not a legal defense. It might work in a court of public opinion, but it will not work in the court of law. Thanks to both of you. What a great discussion, i appreciated. Barbara mcquade is a former United States attorney and msnbc legal analyst. Donald air is a former United States Deputy Attorney general under george h. W. Bush. I would like to have this conversation more as the time goes by. Thank you both this morning. Still ahead this hour on velshi, trumps list of legal troubless sprawling and it gets worse by the day. I will break down the criminal and civil case is that the former president is facing and how its going to intersect with his 2024 president ial campaign. And todays meeting at the Velshi Banned Book Club is going to examine the late, great maya angeles unparalleled autobiography. I know why the caged bird sings. She was a prolific writer and left an even larger legacy. Iraq a tree hosts the species long since departed marked the masthead on, the dinosaur, who left tokens of their soldier in here on our planet. Any broad alarm of their hastening doom is lost in the gloom of dust and ages. D ages d ages imagine youre doing something you love. Rsv could cut it short. Rsv is a contagious virus that usually causes mild symptoms but can cause more severe infections that may lead to hospitalizations. In adults 60 and older. And adults with certain underlying conditions, like copd, asthma, or congestive heart failure. Talk to your doctor and visit cutshortrsv. Com. Tourists tourists that turn into scientists. Tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. This week, republicans on so researchers can help life underwater flourish. The House Oversight committee entered a new phase in their investigation into what they call the biden crime family. On wednesday, a pair of irs whistleblowers testified, claiming that the Justice Department intentionally delayed bringing charges against hunter biden. Last month, nbc news reported that hunter biden struck an agreement to plead guilty to two federal misdemeanor counts. Failing to pay his taxes. He also faces a separate felony gun possession charge, which will likely be dismissed, if he meets certain conditions. Now, when this all came up, republicans called it a Sweetheart Deal and claimed that the Biden Administration used its influence to sway the investigation. The white house said, it had no role in decisionmaking, regarding the case, and that joe biden has no ties to his sons business operations. During the weeks hearing, one of the irs whistleblowers said, he witnessed the u. S. Attorney, david weiss, who oversaw the hunter biden case, tell a room of senior fbi and irs investigators in october that he was, quote, not the deciding person on whether charges are filed. Weiss disputes these allegations, a little background here. Weiss was tapped by donald trump five years ago to investigate Hunter Bidens Business Dealings. When Joe Biden Took Office in 2021, he did what president s typically do. He asked for resignations of all trump appointed United States attorneys. Except for david weiss. So that david weiss could continue to investigate his own son. Now, if you thought a hearing with two irs whistleblowers was going to be tame, you would be wrong. That hearing quickly devolved when the congressman Marjorie Taylor greene displayed explicit photographs of hunter biden to the committee. This is the reality of the republican investigation into the socalled biden crime family. Its seemingly riddled with stunts and conspiracies. Another facet of the hunter biden Investigation Centers around his Business Dealings with the Ukrainian National gas Company Called burisma. Now, the allegations go as far back as 2019, at least. They claim that joe biden, when he was Vice President under barack obama, was accused of pressuring ukraine to remove its top prosecutor. The reason . Conservatives claimed, was to protect burisma from investigation because hunter biden was a member of burismas board. Now, that little part is true. Hunter biden was on the board of burisma. And joe biden did push ukraine to remove its top prosecutor. But that was because the prosecutor was seen as categorically corrupt by the International Community and he was seen as corrupt because, in part, he had failed to investigate alleged wrongdoing by burisma. In 2020, Senate Republicans investigated these allegations against joe biden and his son. And found no evidence of improper influence or wrongdoing by the president. On thursday, the republican senator, chuck grassley, released an fbi memo containing Unverified Claims about Hunter Bidens work in ukraine. The House Oversight committee had already seen a redacted version of this memo, which involves claims that a confidential informant made in 2020 about Hunter Bidens alleged Business Dealings, Top Republicans have acknowledged that they cannot confirm whether that information is true. And trumps attorney general, bill barr, had this document in mid 2020. And it never resulted in criminal charges or even a specific investigation. If this is all sounding like deja vu, thats because these allegations have already been investigated. Over, and over, and over again, and even lead to former Donald Trumps first impeachment. Remember, Rudy Giuliani was attempting to dig up dirt on the bidens in ukraine ahead of the 2020 election. That led to Donald Trumps infamous phone call, in which he attempted to shake down the then new and relatively unknown president of ukraine, volodymyr zelenskyy. First time he ever heard that name, im sure. On the call, trump threatens to hold back congressionally approved aid to ukraine unless zelenskyy dug up dirt on biden. Alexander vindman was in the room, he went and told his superiors about that call that led to the impeachment of donald trump. Lev parnas, the man who figured prominently to giulianis effort, is now speaking out saying, the gop investigation into biden and his son is a wild goose chase. After explaining this campaign to fabricate Corruption Charges against biden, parnas concludes his letter by saying, throughout all these months of work, the extensive campaigns and networking done by trump allies and giuliani associates, including the enormously thorough interviews and assignments that i undertook. Quote, there has never been any evidence that hunter or joe biden committed any crimes related to ukrainian politics. Never during any of my communications with ukrainian officials or connections to burisma did any of them confirm or provide concrete effects linking the bidens to illegal activities. That letter the jaming raskis written by lev parnas. Lev was a ukrainian businessman whose essentially giulianis righthand man in attempting to dig up dirt on the bidens. Parnas was convicted on fraud and Campaign Finance crimes, but they were not directly related to his work for giuliani. Im going to speak with lev parnas after a quick break. H le parnas after a quick break parnas after a quick break ted. Try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for Muscle Health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. Boost® high protein. Now available in cinnabon® bakeryinspired flavor. Learn more at boost. Com tv meet the team. Behind the team. The coach. The manager. And the snack dad. All using chase to keep up with their finances. The coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. Anddd check this out. The manager deposited a check. Magic. And the snack dad . Hes getting paid back. Orange slicesss. Because this team all has chase. Smart bankers. Convenient tools. One bank with the power of both. Chase. Make more of whats yours. More shopping . You should watch your spending honey. Im saving with liberty mutual, mom. They customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Check it out, you could save 700 dollars just by switching. Ooooh, ill look into that. Let me put a reminder on my phone. Save 700 dollars. Pick up dad from airport . Ohhhhhh. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Listen, your deodorant just has to work. I use secret aluminum free. Just swipe and it lasts all day. Secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. And hours later, i still smell fresh. Secret works ohhh yesss. Bridgett is here. She has no clue that im here. She has no clue whos in the helmet. Are you ready . Im ready alright. Xfinity rewards creates experiences big and small, and onceinalifetime. Voltaren. The joy of movement. There are currently more than 750,000 unfilled Cybersecurity Jobs in the u. S. The Google Cybersecurity Certificate was made to fill that gap and help grow the workforce thats keeping us all safe. Now, before the break, i told you the story of lev parnas, who is an associate of really giuliani during his scheme to dig up dirt on the bidens in ukraine. This week, parnas sent a letter to the House Oversight committee, urging republicans to abandon their investigation into the bidens. He wrote, in part, quote, there has never been any evidence that hunter or joe biden committed any crimes related to ukrainian politics. Never during any of my communications with ukrainian officials or connections to burisma did any of them confirm or provide concrete facts linking the bidens to illegal activities, and quote. Lev parnas joins me now. Lev, good to see you, my friend. Tell me about this. What compelled you to get involved in this . Because this whole involvement with Rudy Giuliani in ukraine, the bidens, has been nothing but help for you and your life. Why say this . Why do this now . You know, while serving time [inaudible] watching live television, watching what was going on, it was just to see that it was the same old misinformation campaigns, and you have the evidence being brought up and i called my lawyer and said, i need to do something because, you know, im writing my book, thats going to come out in a couple months. I need to do something now and he said, you know what . Why dont you write a letter and we will see what we can do. I just put pen to paper and try to, you know, because i wanted to make sure that palmer, the Oversight Committee really what was going down because at the end of the day, yes, the same thing as this 10 23 letter. Its the same exact thing what i was talking about. Lots of accusations, lots of, you know, conspiracy theories, but no facts behind it. And that was what was going on while we were in ukraine. So, in our very politicize world, you have people who will say, this is all nonsense and you will have other people on the other side saying, joe biden, its a crime family and he was making money off of this burisma, the top prosecutor, joe biden, you know, got rid of the top prosecutor. Tell me what really happened. What really happened was that victor was a corrupt prosecutor that the whole Obama Administration, not joe biden, but the obama Obama Administration he, both of the countries want to get out of ukraine because he was corrupt. The funny part is that it wasnt because he was doing investigations, it was the opposite. It was because he was not doing investigations into corrupt activity that was happening. The funny part about this letter also is that, you know, there was a bribe paid to joe biden. Where the wire transfers . Where the tapes take you talking about . I think this is just a disservice to the American Public and to our democracy, what they are doing. What do you make of this weeks testimony by these irs agents suggesting that there is, in fact, not just that there was stuff that joe biden and hunter biden were up to in ukraine, but there is some kind of coverup. Based on what you know, i mean, obviously, you dont know these fbi agents and what they are carrying on about, but based on what you know, what is your reaction to people saying there is a coverup . I think its the same old story. I mean, im not going to discredit these two irs agents, im sure theyre qualified individuals. But watching the hearings, i mean, it was basically a lot of accusations, a lot of again, no facts behind them. There is no emails, Text Messages to show any of this going on, and its the same old theory. Like, give little bits and pieces, but dont give the full facts, dont give the whole truth. And so, again, its nothing more than the same old playbook that they are using being pushed by the same old people, like john sean hannity and fox news. You and i are in touch a lot. Youre and easy to find guy, particularly at the beginning of the ukraine war, you are giving a lot of assistance and understanding what was going on on that side. In your words, giuliani and trump actively orchestrated a campaign ahead of the president ial election to dig up dirt on the bidens. According to you and several investigations, nothing turned up. Based on what you know, and based on the fact that anybody can find lev parnas. You are not a hard guy to find and sit down with and say, love, tell me the whole story. Why do you think these folks, these republicans in congress, keep pushing this narrative . I think they keep pushing the narrative because they want to confuse the public. They want to be able to get chaos going on in front of the 2024 elections, just like they try to do in the 2020 elections, put a lot of doubts, a lot of thoughts into people. Most people dont have the time to go in and do research on their own, and figure out the facts, everything going on. Then as americans, we are taught to listen to our congressman and our senators, and these people, like congressman, you know, marjorie greene, comer, senator grassley, i mean, they are coming out on two Major Television stations and talking about how this corruption is going on, that corruption is going on, and people hear bits and pieces of it, and they start believing it. And that is just, you know, sad to see whats going on. Lev, good to see you as always. Thanks for taking time to be with us. Love foreign its a parnas is a former associate of really drew Rudy Giuliani. Who is close involved in the investigation into what was going on in ukraine. All right, still ahead, a special meeting of the Velshi Banned Book Club, exploring Maya Angelous magnum opus, I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings. The first of her seven autobiographies. This book details her, quote, tender years from age 3 to 16 in the American South and later in california. From each painful moment of and abuse, there are many moments of beauty and joy. You do not want to miss the discussion of a true american classic. Discussion of a true america classic. Classic. I always wanted to learn more about him. I discovered some very interesting documents on ancestry. This is the uh Registration Card for the draft for world war two. And this is his signature which blew me away. Being able to. Make my grandfather real. Not just a memory. Is priceless. His legacy. Lives on. Just between us, you know whats better than mopping . Anything ugh. Well, i switched to swiffer wetjet, and its awesome. Its an allinone, that absorbs dirt and grime deep inside. And it helps prevent streaks and haze. Wetjet is so worth it. Love it, or your money back. Psoriasis really messes with you. Try. Hope. Fail. No one should suffer like that. I started cosentyx®. 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Com what causes a curve down there . Is it peyronies disease . Will it get worse . How common is it . Who can i talk to . Can this be treated . Stop typing. Start talking to a specialized urologist. Because it could be peyronies disease, or pd. Its a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. And an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. But pd can be treated even without surgery. Say goodbye to searching online. Find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a Treatment Plan with you. Visit makeapdplan. Com today. We now know that the federal criminal trial involving Donald Trumps mishandling of classified documents is set for may 20th of 2024, which is smack in the middle of Super Tuesday and the Republican National convention, meaning when that trial begins, trump may be the Presumptive Republican nominee for the 2024 president ial race. And we cant forget that there are several other criminal and civil cases involving the disgraced ex president that will play out by then, as well. This week, we learned that trump received a Target Letter from Special Counsel jack smith in his sprawling investigation into trumps efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Now, that is separate from jack smiths other criminal investigation, which i just mentioned into trumps mishandling of classified documents. In that case, hes been indicted on 37 felony counts, which include willful retention of documents, conspiracy to obstruct justice, and making false statements, among others. Then there is the Fulton County District Attorney Finding Willis was investigating trumps efforts to overturn the election in georgia. The diaz set a timetable for announcing potential indictments for the coming weeks. In new york city, trump faces a trial early next year in a 34 count Felony Indictment over a hush money payment scheme, which involves falsifying Business Records during the 2016 election. And all of that is just Donald Trumps potential criminal exposure. Hes also facing multiple civil litigations. Trumps former fixer, Michael Cohen, is suing him for one point 3 million in unpaid legal fees relating to cohens 2019 congressional testimony. But as of yesterday, Michael Cohen has settled that lawsuit. Theres also the civil lawsuit against trump, the trump organization, and three of his eldest children in new york state. The lawsuit filed by new York Attorney general, letitia james, claims that trump committed fraud by inflating his net worth by billions of dollars. In may, the ex president was found liable for defamation and Sexual Assault against writer and columnist, e. Jean carroll. Trump was ordered to ban pay carroll 5 million, but his Defamation Trouble did not end there. In june, a federal judge allowed carroll to amend another Defamation Lawsuit against trump to include disparaging comments that trump made about her during a town hall. Everything seems to be culminating all at once for this man who is also the front runner in the republican primary race for the presidency of the United States. And in just six months, we will have the first election days of the 2024 president ial race. First of, iowa caucus is january 15, 2024, on the same day, e. Jeans civil defamation suit against trump is expected to begin. March 5th will mark Super Tuesday, the single day when most states hold primaries or caucuses. At the end of the month, march 25th, the criminal hush money case is expected to go on trial in new york. May 20th, as i mentioned, that is the date when the classified documents case begins. Come april, there are a slew of republican primaries. The Republican National Convention Begins on july 15th and, of course, november 5th is election day. That dude is going to be busy. Theres still plenty of unknowns coming before the big election and the Staggering Number of legal entanglements that voters might want to consider. Consider most everyone, if not everyone, knows the name maya angelou. Poet, activists, essayist, educator, singer, dancer. One of hollywoods first black female directors. The list goes on. Everything she touched brimmed with her unparalleled creativity and brilliance as a writer and a creator. Angelou delivered poems before president s. She was awarded the National Medal of by President Bill Clinton in 2000. Later, the president ial Medal Of Freedom by president barack obama in 2010. She was awarded more than 50 honorary degrees. She learned six languages before her death in 2014, but do you know her story . Today on the Velshi Banned Book Club, we will examine the first of angelous seven autobiographies. Her magnum opus, I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings. This autobiography is one of those rare works that you cannot summarize. The books lyrical language, the vivid imagery, the masterfully interwoven themes are better read then explained, but this is by my job, so im going to try. First published in 1969 and never once taken out of print, I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings depicts angelous, quote, tender years from the age of 3 to 16. And the American South and later in california. Sent by their mother to live with their beloved and principled grandmother in rural stamps, arkansas, maya and her brother, bailey, are played by feelings of abandonment and subject to appalling incidents of racism. Back with her mother in st. Louis, maya is attacked and raped by an adult man at just eight years old. Then in san francisco, my myatt becomes pregnant at the age of 16 and then theres a break in the clouds. She learns self love, to trust in the kindness of others, and she learns the power of great literature. If you are in search of an easy, light read, go somewhere else. I know why the caged bird sings grapples with serious and demanding themes, racism, resistance, community, rape, identity, and freedom. But for each moment of pain and abuse, and searing injustice, the reader is treated to a moment of beauty. A lavender taft address, the black National Anthem led by a skinny eighth grade boy, the joy in hearing a poem read out loud for the very first time. Ultimately, this autobiography is an exploration of angelos growth from Self Loathing to self love. If you did not know, angelou was a poet before opening I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings, you will by the end of the book. Angelou masterfully mixes the vivid descriptions of lyrical language of a poet with the frank, True To Life Dialogue of a novelist in a way that was unheard of for autobiographies at the time that the book was published. Even now. This book is a master class in coupling compelling use of smile, simply, and metaphor, with a direct and informal voice. The genius, though, does not lay in angelous use of words. The literary critic, pierre a walker, focus on the books structure in his 1995 review, noting that the book is written in thematic, not chronological, order. Each short story presents a moment in angelous life resisting racism and oppression, a lesson. I know why the caged bird sings is simply put, a classic. This book grounds the reader in the brutal realities of racism in america, it pays homage to the tradition of autobiography, and it realistically depicts the lifelong struggle with Sexual Assault and rape. To even consider banning a book of this magnitude is simply outrageous and yet, it happens. Again, and again. We must keep space on our shelves for this book and keep time to explore it with our students, regardless of their backgrounds. This is real life. This is Maya Angelous remarkable real life. Joining me now is an esteemed member of the Velshi Banned Book Club, the doctor imani perry. Shes a professor of African American studies at Harvard University and the author of the National Book award, winner of south to america, a journey below the masondixon to understand the soul of a nation. Dr. Perry, it is good to see you. Thank you for being with us yet again. You have been a frequent guest of ours here because when we cannot introduce an interview, some of these great authors, because theyre no longer with us, you are our best choice. You have studied these people, you have honored them so, thank you for joining us to discuss the enduring relevance of this book. I know why the caged bird sings and Maya Angelous enormous legacy. Welcome back. Thanks for having me, what a gorgeous introduction. Very wonderful. You know, most of us know maya angelou as this great success. In her life. Does reading I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings through that lens affect the book . Because when she wrote this book, she was not who we know her to be today. Correct. Yeah, i mean, i think part of the magic of the book is that you understand how she got, not withstanding all of this incredible trauma and adversity she experienced at a very young age, you actually understand how she could become my angela. When you read the book, because, as you said, there are these moments of extraordinary love of community. Her relationship with her brother, her grandmother, the nurturing they have, the community thats like a fortress against the violence of the jim crow order. And that, combined with the love of language and literacy, i mean, the path that she travels becomes clear. And i think that the book then, part of the reason it inspires so much is that any person whos experienced adversity can actually find a residence with the power of finding connection with other human beings and a way out, right . Through art, through beauty and possibility. One of the persistent themes in the book is self acceptance. Angelou, heartbreakingly, introduces us in a prologue. Quote, wouldnt they be surprised 11 day i woke out of my black, ugly dream and my real hair, which was long and what would take the place of the kinky mess that mom would not let me straighten . Throughout the, book maya angelou comes to terms with her identity and begins to accept herself as she is. But what a remarkable theme through the course of the book. Its extraordinary and, you know, she was a tall woman with a deep voice, dark skin, short hair. So, not fitting the ideal of beauty not just in a larger society, but in her own community. And that theme carries through the subsequent autobiographies as well. And so, again, you see this entry point for identification for readers from all sorts of walks of life. How do you love yourself when youre receiving messages that are inadequate . And so, the vulnerability in sharing that, i think, is really powerful and incredibly important for young people to have access to. There are many visceral and feet infuriating moments in this book. One that stayed with me since i read this book many, many years ago was the Dentist Scene in chapter 24. Angelou develops a toothpick. Her grandmother takes her to a local White Dentist who owes her money and a favor. The dentist refuses to treat her saying, quote, my policy is that rather stick my hand in a dogs mouth then he ends it with a racial slur. Tell me a bit about this. I mean, this is the kind of every day violence that characterized the Segregated South, right . The sort of persistence of insult and degradation. And so, when you see in that text how she moves from that to these moments of grace, of celebration of oneself, of glooming, a commitment to elegance, you also understand thats a sign of resistance, right . So that is not simply the case that people and or, but people actually built themselves up, you know . That is history. That is truth. I think its really important for us to understand how persistent and how ugly those types of behaviors were. Not that long ago, you know . That was my mothers lifetime. Youve written about maya angelou quite a bit in her memoir, and your book, may we forever sand, you recount an emotional moment and I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings when white politicians speech threatens to derail the celebration Maya Angelous eighth grade graduation. The ceremony is ultimately saved by the young valedictorian, a beautiful speech. And the black National Anthem, which you write, quote, the Negroni Asheville Anthem was a tool of transcendence. It was a tool for community building. It was remembered by angelou as reflecting the very spirit of black resilience. I would love if you could elaborate on that. Sure, i mean, so, the anthem was sung ritually. So, when she concludes the, this moment, when they sing the anthem as a way to, in many ways, restore the beauty and the celebration of the graduation after insult, she actually captures the most powerful way by lift was so important. It was a song that allowed them to tell the story of their lives and other people, in these epic, Gorgeous Terms as opposed to they were often depicted, as my people are often depicted, as of people without history. And so, she puts place in this scene, but the meeting is so great because it encapsulates the spirit of resistance that was so pervasive in the Segregated South and black communities. Its a really beautiful moment. Dr. Perry, its a pleasure, as always, to talk to you. Its a real honor that you give us because your celebrated author yourself. But to have you be able to help us with these authors who are no longer with us is something we really appreciate. Doctor imani perry is a historian and professor of African American studies at Harvard University. Shes also the author of the very important book, south to america, a journey below the masondixon, to understand the soul of a nation. Its a must read. That does it for me. Thank you for watching, cashmere tomorrow morning from 10 am to noon eastern. Dont forget, velshi is available as a podcast. Subscribe and listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Stay right where you are, our News Coverage continues with a quick break, with aaron or her in for my friend, alex witt. My friend, alex witt. My friend, alex witt. King mean to you . The way that i see it, if youre buying it, flying it, or wining n dining it, then you gotta be cashbacking it. [chuckles] come on now. Earn big with chase freedom unlimited. How do you cashback . My husband and i have never been more active. Earn big with chase freedom unlimited. Shingles doesnt care. I go to spin classes with my coworkers. 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But yeah, erin. So, we just heard earlier today that north korea fired these missiles to the west into the yellow sea. Not to the east, which was what we saw earlier in the week. But as you mentioned, this is the launch this past week. Now, from the