Transcripts For MSNBCW Velshi 20200621

Red state. My god. This is embarrassing. One of the nations top district attorneys fired after standing up to trump and attorney general bill barr. How the president now denies having anything to do with his ouster. Attorney general barr is working on that. Thats his department, not my department. And nearly 500 pages. How a book thats not even on the shelves yet added to trumps bad weekend. Velshi starts right now. Good morning, and happy fathers day. Its sunday, june 21st. Im ali velshi. What happens when you invite a Million People to a party and 6200 show up . Underwhelming. Thats how President Trumps overhyped, overtweeted Campaign Rally in tulsa, oklahoma, last night can best be described. This morning, headlines all sharing that same opinion. Detailing a sparse turnout for this major president ial event. The first since the start of the pandemic. The drudge report capturing the mood of the night best with the label maga less mega. Kind of catchy, dont you think . Might look good on a hat or tshirt. Trump wouldnt own up to the lack of supports in attendances a being any fault of his own and fell back on his usual tactic, to blame someone else. You are warriors. Thank you. We had some very bad people outside. We had some very bad people outside. They were doing bad things. According to nbc News Reporters on the ground, protesters were orderly and peaceful. I spoke with a protesters last night on the air who had a ticket to the event and was arrested by police for expressing her views in a peaceful manner. I just happened to walk inside the arena. They let me in. Past the barricade, and they told me i couldnt go any further. And i said, i have a ticket. And they said, youre not welcome. We dont want you here. Im a tulsen. Im in oklahoma. Im an american citizen, and i was doing nothing wrong. I had a black mask on to try to yes . Were running the video now of them arresting you and taking you away. And youre wearing an i cant breathe shirt. The event also raising red flags for its potential as a coronavirus superspreader. This as six Trump Campaign members who were in tulsa ahead of the rally tested positive for coronavirus. That includes at least two members of the secret service. Also this morning, nbc news reporting the white house is walking back comments made by trump regarding the status of testing in this country. Saying he was making a joke, but i want you to listen to this, and you decide whether he was kidding around. Testing is a doubleedged sword. We have tested now 25 Million People. Its probably 20 Million People more than anyone else. Germany has done a lot. South korea has done a lot. They call me, they say the job youre doing heres the bad part. When you do testing to that extent, youre going to find more people, youre going to find more cases. So i said to my people, slow the testing down, please. So i said to my people, slow the testing down, please. Trump also playing to his base, fanning the flames of ongoing division across an already split nation with more unnecessary political rhetoric. The unhinged leftwing mob is trying to vandalize our history, desecrate our monuments, our beautiful monuments. Tear down our statues. And punish, cancel, and persecute anyone who does not conform to their demands for absolute and total control. Were not conforming. Thats why were here, actually. All right. Joining me now, jelani cobb, msnbc political analyst and staff writer with the new yorker. Jelani, i have my executive producer in my ear telling me something. Can i hear that again . Jelani is with us . Yeah. Can you hear me . Okay. Jelani is with us. Sorry. Good to see you. I dont know where to start. Theres a lot to unpack here. If you invite a Million People to a rally and 6200 people show up, i was asking my colleagues this morning what that means. He said theres a lot of extra guacamole. More importantly, that last thing President Trump just said, those protesters are trying to vandalize our history. He talked about ruining american culture. He was making reference to confederate statues and of course the renaming of confederate bases in the south. I dont really quite understand how the president gets away with that in 2020. This misunderstanding or this deliberate misinterpretation of what the civil war was actually about. But that team, that paltry group of 6200 in tulsa seems to be eating it up. Sure. I do want to correct you about one thing because most of our avocados come from mexico, so that crowd would find guacamole unamerican. I think theres one significant thing here, which is that compare the size of this crowd with all the mechanisms that the president has at his disposal, presumably, a fully engaged campaign staff, pr, social media, everything else. Giving away tickets, and they got 6200 people. In any given night in new york city, you can easily find more than people than protesting about the ongoing state of affairs with Police Excessive use of force. So i think thats an unscientific but nonetheless significant indicator, metric, of where he is culturally. The other part of this is, on the confederate side of it, its strange, and this is kind of what happens when you believe in folklore instead of history. You can say that people are tearing down monuments trying to destroy your heritage and history. Except these are monuments to people who were trying to destroy the countrys heritage and history. These are people who rebelled. These are people who actually attempted to overthrow the government of the United States. And here is the president presumably the leader of the government of the United States, extolling their virtues. And heaping praise upon them. So its odd, but everything about this period we have been in is odd, and one other thing ill say about this, too, is that look at that crowd in a state where hes by most estimates going to blow joe biden out of the water and hes leading by 19 points there, something catastrophic would have to happen for him to not win. And you wonder what happens in the states where theyre competitive. What kind of crowd would he get in michigan, in wisconsin, in pennsylvania . So i think that this is really telling and it will be interesting to see what happens as he continues and tries to kind of restore the old magic in these other places. Jelani, amani perry is joining us as well, a professor of africanamerican studies at princeton. This is really interesting. On one hand, on one side of the screen, the lack of enthusiasm at that event last night. Surprising lack of enthusiasm in a solidly red state, after the president said that a Million People had expressed interest in going. On the other side, you have these protests that we have all watched in the last several weeks in the United States. In which there is every color in the rainbow represented and pets and all sorts of things. You wrote in the atlantic this week, people of all walks of life are protesting the violent deaths handed out by Police Officers. This is extraordinary because the victims were black, and because americans in general have a hard time dealing with death. Think about how uncomfortable Many Americans are with grief. Youre supposed to meet it with a hidden shamefulness, tuck yourself away respectfully for a season and return whole and recovered. But thats not how grief courses through life. It shakes you and stops you and sometimes disappeared only to come barreling back to knock the wind out of you, and that, that explanation of death is what we are seeing in americans of all colors right now. Thats right. Thats right. I do think there is something about this moment in history and the kind of reckoning that it is demanding of all of us, even though africanamericans are disproportionately experiencing the greatest cost of covid19, but theres something that i think being inside and being reflective allowed people to think in serious contemplative ways about the depth of american inequality. So theres an opportunity to this moment. I think theres something kind of extraordinary courage we need to acknowledge amongst protesters given the existence of the virus. And i think that to see that on the one hand and on the other hand the part of that small crowd for the trump rally is probably also reflecting even his most ardent supporters are not convinced of his fictitious account of the world. Were not willing to participate in his championing of everything vile and white supremacist. Were not clear yet. I wish we knew how we got to that 6200 people. Whether it was people not willing to believe his view of the world of not getting coronavirus or people who dont believe his view of the rest of the world. I cant say it enough, but in 1861, Alexander Stevens gave a speech i think every american needs to read where he says the foundations of the confederacy are laid upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the great man. That superior to the race is his natural and normal condition, that our new government is the first in the history of the world based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This is the Vice President of the confederacy in 1861. The front end of the war. All this bs we hear about how it was about Something Else is laid waste by this guy himself. Alexander stevens was not a fringe character in the civil war. No, he wasnt. And you know, quite frankly, you could go even more directly to this when you read the articles of secession that the state legislatures passed. They explicitly mention slavery as the motivating cause for them seceding from the union. So theres no question about this. The great historian w. E. B. Deboyce wrote about this. He said the war had scarcely ended before people began lying about why they fought it in the first place, and he said southerners could never continence the fact that they had fought to their last man for the right to buy, sell, rape, traffic, exploit, and abuse human beings. Thats a difficult load to carry through history. And so they have opted not to carry it, to just lie, and to promulgate vagaries like states rights and heritage and so on, but a momentary glance at the actual history of the confederacy will tell you exactly what this was. And one last thing quickly. A momentary glance. But it appears there are still many white americans who wont give it a momentary glance. I dont know if they dont have the google on their phone, but how do we stop this nonsense . This is low hanging foote, changing names of bases namded after confederate soldiers. I think we have to be clear that for some people, so when trump says these are our precious monuments, they are thinking about whiteness, right . There is some sense of connection to the ideology behind the confederacy as much as people deny it, so part of the process is actually a largescale social and cultural and political transformation. Its not simply a question of ignorance. For some people, the whole notion of heritage or southern heritage, which is really what they mean is southern white heritage, is an investment in that history of domination, so i think theres multiple layers to it, but most importantly, when he says our monuments, i mean, that is in effect its a way of speaking to the fact that his presidency in some ways is a monument to white supremacy. Its a monument to patriarchy. Theres a complete adherence to these philosophies and we will have to do a serious spiritual, cultural, political cleansing if were going to ever get to the promise of multiracial democracy again. We will get there. And it looks like we may be on our way there now. Jelani cobb, emony perry is a professor of African Studies at princeton university, jelani is also a professor of journalism at columbia, university. Thank you for joining us. We reported yesterday on the standoff between Donald Trumps Justice Department and the head of most sovereign u. S. Attorneyssophorouses offices the country. Plus, Police Officers always working pairs, but im telling you about a partnership that could help fix our broken policing system. Policing system. Virtually any place. So, when you get a check. You can deposit it from here. And you can see your transactions and check your balance from here. You can detect suspicious activity on your account from here. And you can pay your friends back from here. 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Discover. Deliver, in new ways, to new customers. What if you could come back stronger . Faster. Better. At comcast business, we want to help you not just bounce back, but bounce forward. And now, with one of our best offers ever, were committed to helping you do just that. Get a powerful and reliable internet and voice solution for only 29. 95 a month for three months. Call or go online today. Why did you veer Geoffrey Berman, mr. President . Thats up to the attorney general, attorney general barr is working on that. Thats his department, not my department. But we have a very capable attorney general, so thats really up to him. Im not involved. Over the last 24 hours, the botched dismissal of u. S. Attorney general Geoffrey Berman has played out in public fashion after years of tension between the Trump Administration and the Southern District of new york, but trump is denying any role in bermans removal, despite barrs assertion he was indeed involved. It also raises flags as to whether another possible conspiracy to obstruct justice may be at play. Bermans office oversaw investigations into several trump allies including Michael Cohen and rudy giuliani. And lets not forget we have seen this president continually retaliate against those in his orbit whom he deems disloyal. Numerous inspectors general have been removed from their post, pointing to a president and Justice Department willing to go to extraordinary lengths to avoid even the most basable accountability. I want to bring in a former federal prosecutor with the Southern District of new york. A few things here. First, its inconceivable that an attorney general would dismiss the attorney for the Southern District of new york, the most important and most powerful of the districts in the United States, without the president s knowledge or understanding. The president seemed to suggest this had nothing to do with him. And thats shocking that barr would that trump would say that, because its not even so much that its inconceivable. Its not legally possible. I think most people, almost all people, would agree in order to remove a u. S. Attorney like Geoffrey Berman, the president has to do it. Barr does not have that power. So heres the question that i think a lot of people are left with. Preet bharara was removed from office. Geoffrey berman ultimately comes in. Whats the problem with Geoffrey Berman as far as trump and barr are concerned . Thats the troubling question. Because by all appearances, geoff berman has been doing a knockout job in the Southern District of new york. Hes been bringing counterterrorism cases, drug cases, and hes been bringing highprofile corruption cases. The question is, why was he removed . Because frankly, this never really happens. Once youre handpicked by the president as a u. S. Attorney general, youre usually there until you want to leave unless you have done something horribly wrong. And here, geoff berman, as you pointed out, was handpicked by the president himself. It begs the question, what happened . And why . And now, this is settled in a way that was not expected. Barr said jay clayton was coming in. Jay clayton is the head of the security and exchange commission. Never prosecuted a case in his life. That would be a first for the Southern District of new york. Now thats not happening. The person who should succeed jeff berman is doing so. Thats correct. By statute, when the interim or u. S. Attorney is no longer u. S. Attorney, has resigned or has been dismissed, the deputy u. S. Attorney here, audrey strauss, takes over, and i believe she can be the acting u. S. Attorney by statute for about 210 days. But this is not necessarily over. Because its an open question whether barr can still or President Trump can appoint someone in an interim fashion bike Geoffrey Berman was initially appointed in an interim fashion. So remember, when Preet Bharara was fired, my former boss, june kim, by statute, who was his deputy, became the acting u. S. Attorney. Then Geoffrey Berman was appointed as the interim after about 210 days. The question is whether now barr can turn around and say, okay, im going to appoint someone else as the interim even though they havent been confirmed. Ken, good to see you as always. Ken nowaday is a former federal prosecutor. Switching gears. Although the white house and Congressional Republicans have stood against any efforts to defund or abolish Police Departments across the country, the president says he wants to strengthen the partnership between Law Enforcement and social workers as a way to deal with homelessness, mental illness, and addiction emergencies. Some cities are already adopting new Public Health models where experts trained in deescalating conflict would respond to nonviolent 911 calls instead of Police Officers. Allowing them to focus their efforts on more dangerous tasks. For far toor long, police have been viewed as the only solution to handling many of our problems but now could be the right time to reimagine a citizenled approach that is focused on the prevention of violence. For more on how expanding our social services can help police better serve our communities, im joined by angelo maclaine, the ceo of the National Association of social workers. Good to see you. Thank you for being with us. Good morning. Good to be with you. Angelo, how real is this conversation . A whole bunch of people who i suspect dont really know how this works are calling for the intervention of social workers into things we have come to accept are part of policing. Is that a reasonable explanation we can begin to change models where somehow social workers get called as a response to certain things that social workers can deal with and police either dont show up or show up in the background where theyre not having immediate interaction with whomever the call has been about . It is a real, very real possibility. Its a possibility that already does exist. There are social workers who actually have a title of police social worker, and they work in Police Departments. And they do the things like you say, addressing those social problems. And many social workers who have worked in Child Welfare like myself, i worked in Child Welfare for a decade, when police get a call involving a child or a Domestic Violence situation, often times the first people they would call would be social workers. There are times where social workers go on what we call ridealongs where you would be in a patrol car in the passenger seat and helping to respond. When were on the scene, you know, sometimes the officers in the foreground and sometimes they step into the background depending on how things are going down. So it is very much a real thing. Its already happening. And more of it would be a good thing. How do police tend to respond to it . They love us. You know, its like, hey, theres somebody here with a skill to help address this situation. And you know, oftentimes they have our back as social workers and we have their backs. So its a very, very good partnership. Are there examples where i guess the trick is that all the calls come in to either 311 or 911. Whats the methodology to determine where in our new reimagined world of public safety, where social workers go, where police go, where they go in combination, where police go as backup to social workers. Are there places where we have seen how that actually plays out . Im not aware of those places, but you know, basically, it becomes a good triage function where you have a deferential response over that send the police out on every 911 call. Theres a differential response. Maybe in this call, the police go, and maybe this call, the social worker goes. Maybe in this other call, they go in tandem. So it really becomes sort of a more sophisticated triage where you get a differential response, and thats certainly capable training and experience, so thats not a hard one to pull together. Angelo, good to talk to you. Thank you. Well continue to discuss this. Hope it starts to become more of a reality. Angelo maclaine is the ceo of the National Association of social workers. Coming up next, how the president s obsession with mailin voting could be a precursor for whats to come after the election in november. So you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams. Spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair today. Gubut force factors test x180 are tough. Can help us man up, america, by boosting total testosterone. Build muscle, fuel desire, and improve performance. Get test x180 from force factor, the 1 fastestgrowing mens health brand at walmart. Well lose everything. The forgotten men and women, i campaigned on the forgotten. These are good people, substantial people. Somebody two years ago said certainly elite are really working hard on trying to destroy you. Not elite. I look better than them. Much more handsome. I got nicer properties, nicer houses, nicer apartments, i have nicer everything. And hopefully, if you get out and vote, well do it one more time. We wont even toy with them about three or four more times. We wont. Well do it one more time. And that about sums up President Trumps message to his supporters. It comes as he continues to obsess over nonexistent voter fraud. Hes now gone so far as to claim a fantastical claim that mailin voting is the biggest risk to his reelection. Trump has recently tweeted without evidence, of course, that mailin voting, quote, will lead to massive fraud and abuse and the end of the republican party. Asked in a followup by politico if hell assessment the november results no matter what, trump replied, you can never answer that question. Joining me who has literally written the book on voting, kim wha wa waily, her new book is what you need to know about voting and why. I dont know whether the president needs to read the book or hes willfully telling us things about voting that are not true, but hes out there on a campaign to convince people that figuring out ways to vote in coronavirus times, including absentee ballots and mailin ballots is ripe with fraud. Tell me what you know about this. Well, fraud is virtually nonexistent in voting. It carried a 5,000 and fiveyear in jail penalty as a federal felony already, so people sort of pretending to be someone theyre not just to maybe cast one vote in an election is really unlikely, and in addition, out of a billion votes counted in a study done from 2010 to 2014, 31. 31 had credible claims or evidence of voter fraud. It just doesnt exist. But i will say the president is probably telling the truth when he says that mailin voting is the biggest threat to his election because thats going to be an important way to vote, and the way he will win is to have people stay home from the polls. His poll numbers are dropping. Hes lost elderly people, lost women. So the way he can win is not because there will be necessarily a big groundswell of support for him, but to keep people home. People need to register to vote by mail now, to make sure their voices are heard in the november election. Right, and its an unusual thing. America does not have the greatest record of voter turnout, and now theres this extra impediment to not really thinking about it, and we saw it with the census. It doesnt occur to people. Your book is a bit of a public service. Its useful for people to read so they can spread the information around. You have the history of voting, step by steps on voting, howtos on voting and ways to make sure in this country where we have fought for our right to vote, you exercise that right. Yes, it has, i call it the voter twostep. You have to register and then show up at the polls with the properly identification. Even though voting is a constitutional right, it varies based on your zip code. The framers of the constitution left it up to the states to decide the actual way people vote. So some places, utah, for example, all mailin voting. The notion that mailin voting is plagued with fraud doesnt make sense. Theres five states that exclusively do mailin voting and they do fine and participation is up on both sides of the political spectrum, both democrats and republicans. The book says how do you register, what do you show up with to the polls and what is voter suppression, what is voter fraud, what is electoral interference in the campaign by foreign governments mean . People shrug when we talk about the 2016 election interference by the russians but its happening now not just with the russians but the chinese and iranians. This is not something any american could want in that we want to go to the polls with good information and to be able to exercise our right. In america, its an optin system. You have to stand up for your own right to vote. Other democrats, youre already in. You have to opt out. They make it very easy. Unfortunately, its not so easy in america. This is the most vital election probably in all of our lifetimes because democracy itself is on the ballot in november. Kim, a great book. Im glad you have written it and glad to talk to you again. Kim wehle, author of a very important book called what you need to know about voting and why. Even if you have zero doubt about the fact youre going to go out there and cast your ballot, buy the book, read it, if nothing else, you can tell other people. If one person tells one person how to register and vote, things could be different. Good to see you. Health, wealth, and prosperi prosperity, three things many people are lacking. Nearly 46 Million People are unemployments, 2 million cases of coronavirus and widespread racial injustice, and its the black community hit the hardest. What do you think . I dont see it. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. No uh uh, no way come on, no no nnnnono only discover has no annual fee on any card. Wherever you make go, lexus will welcome you back with exceptional offers. Get zero percent financing and make no payments for up to 90 days on all 2020 lexus models. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. New tide power pods one up the cleaning power of liquid. Experience amazing can it one up whatever theyre doing . For sure. Seriously . One up the power of liquid, one up the toughest stains. Any further questions . Uh uh one up the power of liquid with new tide power pods. Tums ver bell rings la stick when heartburn hits fight back fast. With tums chewy bites. Beat heartburn fast tums chewy bites continue even as states allow cities and businesses to reopen amid the coronavirus pandemic. According to the United States department of labor, new unemployment claims totaled 1. 5 million last week. Higher than the 1. 3 million claims that experts predicted. But this marked the 13th straight week that claims totaled a million or more, pushing the overall number to nearly 46 Million People over the 13week stretch. Statistics show black workers have been hit particularly hard by covid19. In may, black unemployment reached 16. 8 compared to 13. 3 for the total workforce. Black women have been especially afliktded by the crisis in terms of layoffs. 18. 8 of black women have lost their job between the months of february and april. Joining us now to break down the figures is kaleb silver, editor in chief of investipedia. Tell me what you found. The numbers are not that great. Youre going to start to hear this drum beat of better Economic News like we saw with the may jobs report, but underneath the surface, the jobs picture is very bad, especially for africanamerican families and workers. You mentioned unemployment at 16. 8 for africanamerican workers. Higher than almost every other category except for hispanics. 16. 8 was the high during the financial crisis for africanamerican unemployment. Were already there now, just three months into this crisis. And the issue is that africanamericans are 12 of the workforce, but nearly 20 of all frontline workers. When we talk about frontline workers like grocery and convenience workers, warehouse workers, these are folks on the front line and theyre experiencing deep job losses and have less of a safety net underneath them to protect themselves through a financial crisis. So were seeing that across areas and also black workers have the highest mortality rates even though theyre a shorter part of the population because theyre in the frontline jobs. The issue is theyre not well insured. The rr 60 more likely to be uninsured than white workers in america, so you have thisfici financial crisis and Health Crisis meeting head on and the most vulnerable parts of the population are exposed. Also lower incomes and higher poverty rates that would have affected them negatively right in the beginning. Thats been going on forever. But its become more extreme in a financial crisis because they do have lower median household incomes, theyre less likely to own a home, and their overall poverty rate is much higher than for whites or any other race and much higher for africanamerican children. Nearly 30 of africanamerican children are in poverty in this country. As we start to hear about recovery here, were talkunts recovery maybe for the Capital Markets as we have seen the stock market improve greatly. We have seen spending and broader growth going on throughout the economy, but whats happening underneath the surface is a crisis that needs to be addressed with some Serious Solutions right off the bat. Yeah, there are a lot of opinions in this discussion, but this is just the facts by kaleb silver. Thank you for bringing that to us. As the public reckoning over racism and inequality continues in our country, its become more appear ntd its time for companies, businesses, and Business Leaders to lead the way into a more equitable future. We have seen Companies Like quaker oats and ungen bens remove racist images on products that have monetized a racist trope associated with slavery and jim crow for decades now. Did you ever think you would find a light syrup that tested better than a regular . With aunt jemima, now youre cooking. Not only does it taste better, its got more maple in it. With aunt jemima, now youre cooking. See how much thicker i am than the other leading brand. Youre pretty cool for a talking bottle of syrup. Mrs. Butterworths. Uncle bens rice. So many wild and wonderful ways of making it. The smooth texture always lets the flavor come through. Two great ways to come in from the cold. Tell the difference. Neither with the bears. Eskimo pies and sandwiches. The changes of these logos is the first step in the right direction, but look whos leading the change. Its businesses. Its consumers. Its not our government. We often vilifyleaders, but the moments in our capitalist society where business can lead rather than follow. After the parkland shooting, Dicks Sporting Goods banned the asale of assault style weapons to anyone under the age of 21. Financial firms blocked the use of gun stocks in portfolios, although more out of necessity than morality. Large retailers like walmart and target have driven minimum wage reforms and climate initiatives. Pant gone yeah and ben and areas have gone further, taking meaningful stances on environment and social issues. They sipped the corporate mumbo jumbo with a statement that said we must dismantle white supremacy. Thats the kind of Straight Talk that will earn my business even though im lactose intolerant. Companies live in fear taking a stand on political and social issues is going to alienate some of their customers and it will, thats okay. Alienating climate deniers ands is cool. Theyll stop buying from you, maybe, but think of all the customers youre get, the young ones, who will be with you for decades to come. Millennials and genz, they Want Companies to take a stand. In fact, deloitte has a survey that says 40 have begun or deepened a business relationship because they perceive a companys products or services to have a positive impact on society and or the environment. Another 37 say they have stopped or lessened a business relationship because of the companys ethical behavior. Todays Consumers Want to see businesses take a stand. They want to see companies they support help create a better, more equitable society, and they want their Business Leaders to make the world a better place. Trust in government is low. Very few people believe that real change is going to make it through the current extreme partisanship in d. C. So dont think too hard about it. In the words of nike, just do it. Im still discovering whats next. And still going for my best. Even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib. Not caused by a heart valve problem. So if theres a better treatment than warfarin, im reaching for that. Eliquis. Eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. Plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. Eliquis is fdaapproved and has both. Whats next . Im on board. Dont stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. 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Lift and push and push there. Its up there. Oh, boy. Hey joshie. Wrinkles send the wrong message. Help prevent them before they start with downy wrinkleguard. Hey bud. Hey, pop pop so you wont get caught with wrinkles again. [woman laughs] no no no no no, theres no space there maybe over here . Hot hot oven mitts oven mitts everythings stuck in the drawers im sorry oh, jeez. Hi. Kelly clarkson. Try wayfair oh, ok. Its going to help you, with all of. This yeah, here you go. Thank you oh, i like that one [ laugh ] thats a lot of storage perfect. Youre welcome i love it. How did you do all this . Wayfair speaking of dinner, whatre we eating, guys . As we were saying, Big Companies are starting to reassess their icons, their labeling, their marketing strategies. This comes late in the game. People have been asking quaker oats to change the branding on aunt jemima for years, as one of our next guests writes, its not an epiphany. Its a calculated business decision thats many decades late and marked recently with the blood of george floyd, breonna taylor, ahmaud arbery, and rayshard brooks. Civil rights activists have been clamoring for the removal of that logo and name, mose recently kirby laurean called how to make a nonracist breakfast. With us is brian collins, chief creative officer and founder of collins, the awardwinning strategy, design and communications company. Thank you to both of you for joining with us. Renee, do you take the view better late than never or is this part of the psyche and the problem that weve got in that we do dehumanize and minimize through the use of our advertising . Its both. You know, i think that youre talking about advertising icons that have existed for more than a century. And there have been complaints through the years of doing something about them, whether youre talking about cream of wheat, aunt jemima, uncle bens, and now theres this great reaction because people are literally in the streets saying black lives matter. Thats what these companies are reacting to. They didnt have this great epiphany, as i wrote. The idea is they cant afford to ignore it because at some point the attention will turn back to these products and people will wonder how do you have these images representing your brands. Thats what were reacting to. Were talking about the dehumanization, the way they tried to recast slavery as this happy, giddy thing for black people and also about a nostalgia that made a lot of white americans very comfortable. You know, brian, i was asked earlier this week is this going to hurt these companies with the protests from people who think theyre being politically correct . I think the answer is no because, a, brands change. Something you talk about all the time. Theyre constantly updating. B, you look at nike with colin kaepernick, you look at Dicks Sporting Goods with taking the guns out. Theres a little bit of a blip from people who say theyre going to protest them. But in the end the audience you gain is much more valuable. Absolutely. Whats just happened, its been going on for a while as long as weve been talking about this, ali, the conversation has shifted. It used to be a Company Bought what you made. Now theyre buying who, what, when, why, why you make it. So its moved from a commercial one to a civic one, which means that brands are not just brands have to see themselves differently. They cant just see themselves as the result of what came before, but they have to see themselves as the cause of whats to happen. So that way brands are a mentor of things to come. If these images, which are outdated, old and in many cases pernicious, its time to dump them. These brands recognize the future as unnecessary with them, so i applaud those brands that are dropping these damaging icons. Last night i just heard that eskimo pie just did. So good for them. It should continue. Renee, you know, when you look at Companies Like patagonia, ben jerrys, toms, companies that get in front of this and have been in front of it, one of the things brian talks about is authentically being who you are. Some of these companies are authentically about change. Ben jerrys is part of a Major Company but have managed to keep their dna. They talked about white supremacy. Patagonia costs more than what you pay for the same thing elsewhere but theres a company thats authentic in what it believes in in terms of social and climate change. Thats a place that millenials and socially conscious buyers seem to move toward. I think it matters. I think it matters that people are not just buying a brand, theyre buying into what that brand represents. If you look at ben jerrys, as you said, thats who they have always said. They have always been political active and thought about social justice. When you look at a company like quaker oats and when they make what i found was a disingenuous statement by saying they now recognize that aunt jemima is racist, you just now figured this out . In 1968 you got rid of the kerchief and gave her a headband. Then you gave her a permanent and pearls. It didnt change what that character was or what her name represented. There isnt a black woman in america who doesnt know that being called aunt jemima is an insult. So they essentially had their brand represented by a racist insult. Pretending now that they understand, and eskimo pie did the same thing, we now see the term as derogatory. Its always been derogatory. So as your earlier guest, professor perry said, its about a spiritual cleansing in this country. Thats what part of this is. But my god, its late. Brian, were seeing all sorts of Major Companies commit big dollars to either helping movements like color of change, which i think north face got involved with the facebook stuff, or black lives matter or things like that. But on the other side youre also seeing companies committing to or at least saying theyre wishing to commit to diversity. To renees point, if there were diversity in some of this decisionmaking, every black woman knows that aunt jemima is derogatory, so someone would have made that decision. But in your field there isnt as much diversity as there could and should be. Thats right. What we have to look forward to now is to make sure that these actions arent just wasnt called performative. So if a Company Makes a claim theyre going to be futurefacing, embrace diversity and make investments, you have to take a look. Whos on their board of directors, who are their leaders . Theres no longer a difference between what you say and what you do. If what you say doesnt reflect how you behave, then youre going to be called out. You know, its interesting to me in the story in a recent survey that deloit did said 46 of millenials are more attracted to making a positive impact in their communities or societies at large than having children or starting families, which is only at 39 . So that means theyre actively engaged in trying to make a better world. Theyre not just going to do it with their personal actions but also the things that they purchase and buy. So theres no longer companies will no longer to be separated by what they say and what they do. Its the same thing. And by the way, once our economy gets better, it also becomes a place about where you choose you want to work. These millenials care more about the values of the companies they work at than people in our generation did. Thanks to both of you for joining me. Renee graham is an opinion columnist at the boston globe. Brian collins, the founder of collins, awardwinning strategy design and communications company, a branding expert. At the top of the next hour im going to talk with former obama hud secretary and president ial candidate julian castro. He used some strong words to describe the president s rally last night in tulsa. Youre watching velshi. N tuls. Youre watching velshi. Where oreida golden crinkles are your crispy currency to pay for bites of this. With this. When kids wont eat dinner, potato pay them to. Oreida. Win at mealtime. Thousands of women with metastatic Breast Cancer, which is Breast Cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. Ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr her2 metastatic Breast Cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. Ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed disease progression versus letrozole, and shrank tumors in over half of patients. 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