Transcripts For MSNBCW Up WSteve Kornacki 20150502

thanks for getting up with us this saturday morning. one former ally of governor chris christie pleads guilty in the bridge gate scandal. two more key figures charged in a criminal conspiracy to intentionally cause a massive traffic jam. the reason given in the indictment, political payback. >> a deliberate and illegal scheme to reduce the access lanes three to one in order to punish the mayor of ft. lee for not endorsing governor christie's reelection. the stunningly fast announcement that crimnm charges are being brought against six police officers for the death of freddie gray who died in custody. that news greeted with celebration on the streets of baltimore where earlier in the week some protesters had turn today violence. the city enforcing a 10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. curfew as a result. as you just heard the prosecutor in charge of that case making the announcement yesterday morning. that gray's death was a homicide. the medical exampler has determined he died from fatal spine injuries after he was arrested. >> mr. gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being hand curved shackled by his feet and unrestrained underof the bpd wagon. >> mosby says freddie gray should never have been arrested in the first place. he was accused of carrying an illegal switch blade. the prosecutor said it was a legal knife for him to be carrying and gray was arrested under false pretenses. the six officers seen in these mug shots, all of them acoused of assault and misconduct and four charged with involuntary manslaughter. three with false imprisonment. facing the most serious charges, including second depraved heart murder is the driver of the police van who could face 63 years in prison if he's convicted. >> let me state in no uncertain terms that lieutenant rice and all of the officers involved at all times acted reasonably. we believe these officers will be vindicated. >> a busy morning of developments and reaction to get to regarding baltimore and bridgegate. we begin in baltimore where rallies overnight were mostly peaceful and in celebration of yesterday's charges. 53 people were arrested for violating the 10:00 p.m. curfew. nbc's ron allen is there. >> more protests more rallies and celebrations and more back and forth between the police and protesters here as the city tries to remain peaceful and go forward. people are digesting what happened. perhaps one of the significant aspects of the case is the fact the prosecutor claims this arrest, the very arrest of freddie gray was illegal. and should have never happened going forward. police -- people in the community are trying to make a point of that. they say this happens all the time. the point is that things here so far, continue to be peaceful. we're hoping that continues. last night the curfew was imposed at 10:00. there were 50 people who were arrested. they were trying to make a point of staying out past 10:00. we were in the neighborhood near north and pennsylvania avenues which has been the epicenter of things. every night there has been this staged thing that happens. people take to the streets, police move in and clear the intersection and people go home. it's all happened fairly orderly so far. that's the hope going forward. i think because these arrests happened so quickly, because the charges are so sweeping i think for the most part the community is satisfied. but they still want to keep the pressure on the authorities. they say they are reforms that need to take place. while the gray case has come to a significant plateau, they want to see justice served going forward. they say there are a lot of other issues here that need to be addressed as well. that's the point people are trying to make. >> nbc's ron allen live in baltimore. thank you for that. moving to bridgegate in the nearly 20 months since access lanes were shut down without warning for four days. there have been many questions. one has towered over the rest, with why? prosecutors say they have the answer to that question. they are alleging it was all an elaborate plan a conspiracy to target this man, the mayor of the burrow of ft. lee, new jersey because he didn't endorse chris christie's campaign. prosecutors adding the closures were timed in a very specific way to have maximum impact. >> they chose not to execute the plan during midaugust, which is traditionally a light month for traffic. they waited until monday september 9th which they knew was the ninety-first day of-- first day of september. >> the they are three former top allies of governor chris christie. bridget kelly, his deputy chiefs of staff who wrote the infamous time for traffic problems in fort lee. bill beroany. they were indicted on nine counts of conspiracy also fraud and other related charges. and david wildstein who pleaded guilty to lesser charges for his role in allegedly conspiring to close the bridge. >> these three defendants did something else entirely. they agreed to and did use the resources of the port authority to carry out an vendetta and exact political retribution against a official who would not endorse the candidate of their choice. >> and now wildstein is key to that case that prosecutors will be making in court. he will become their star witness against bridget kelly and against bill boroni. the prosecutor's case is going to depend on his credibility. already, kelly and boroni are denying the charges. they are vowing to fight them. they are lashing out at wildstein calling him a liar. if wildstein and the feds are alleging are true it would mean boroni told investigators that they had all simply been appart of a traffic study. >> this case will serve as a wakeup call and warning to those public servants who might consider abusing their official positions for their personal benefit or the benefit of others. >> and joining me now is new jersey state assemblyman, the democratic kor chair of the joint panel. and another member of that committee. so, let me start with you, you know assemblymen, you looked into this you've been the face of this investigation in trenton. what you heard yesterday, was there anything surprising in what the prosecutor presented yesterday? >> i think the most surprising fact was that it was, after all, about an endorsement for the mayor, and that it was deliberately timed to have the maximum impact on the community of ft. lee. there was a lot of supposition, we've -- on this show talked about what could the rationale be behind the lane closures. to find out after all this that it was petty politics about an endorsement, that at the end of the day made mow difference to the outcome of the election boggles the mind. it really sickens you. >> what about you, watching this after looking into it, what did you think? >> i don't think we learned anything new. i think some of the plea and details of it were shocking. for david wildstein for this to have the maximum impact on school age children is outrageous. but the one thing i found fascinating in reading his plea agreement as well as the indictment against him, and his plea was that he started floating the idea to do this as early as 2011. and so i mean yes was it ultimately tied to i guess his displeasure in not receiving an endorsement? yes. but there's a two year window in which he admits that he was considering doing this. >> had identified this as a potential lever -- >> yeah. >> take a step further back bigger picture. this is all done in the name according to prosecutors, chris christie's reelection campaign in 2013. this is punishment for a democratic mayor who refuses to endorse the republican governor. this is mayor who didn't endorse the democratic nominee for governor. it seems so disproportionate. one thing i did not hear outlined by prosecutors yesterday is where an idea like that comes from in the first place, given how crazy it is. >> that's the unanswered question. so you have david wildstein admitting to what happened. and implicating in his admission, bridget kelly and bill boroni. they are denying all that. and bridget kelly is making a statement that there are other people involved and essentially saying at some point in time we'll find out who they are. the question that's unanswered and has been unanswered for the longest time is who ultimately gave the go ahead. i mean i don't believe anybody believes that bridget kelly came up with this idea simply because we know that david wildstein was thinking about it two years before it happened. clearly, there was authorization from someone to go ahead with this scheme. we still don't know who that is. >> yeah. so we had -- we should say chris christie governor christie as soon as this was announced yesterday, he took to twitter, he put out a statement saying this backs up everything i said from day one y. didn't know anything about this as it was happening. i didn't have any role in planning this. at the same time the lawyer for wildstein comes out of the courthouse yesterday and he repeats to the press, chris christie knew about this at the time and there is evidence to prove it. prosecutors -- they are vouching for david wildstein's credibility in cutting a deal with him h. do you believe that nobody beyond these three knew or was involved in this? >> i think if david wildstein's attorney had something that would have implicated governor christie it would have been -- the get out of jail free card that would have been utilized. you had a u.s. attorney that over an extended period of time has investigated this has interviewed everybody. has interviewed the governor himself. and you have david wildstein facing really jail time. if he had had anything to implicate somebody other than the two that he implicated he would have done it. >> is there a question beyond literally involvement by chris christie to the culture that chris christie may have created in the administration? a culture around hey we got to do whatever it takes to drive up the number here in this election. you got bare knuckle politics. that's where an idea like this could come from do you think there could be something like that? >> i think in every election situation you have everybody in overdrive who are trying to please their boss. do i think some of that may have come into some sort of mack vellian scene somehow we're pleasing him? possibly. to say that governor christie should know every singlitealm that a port authority employee or somebody on his staff, every e-mail. that's so unrealistic. it's like saying president obama should know that hillary clinton was using her personal e-mail or that you know lois lerner -- there are so many different things you could point to on all political sides of the aisle. as examples of how, you know we have to have realistic expectations of what people know about and what they're supervising. >> what's your next move? >> we have to look at all the facts we have learned over the past 24 hours. the are unanswered questions and conflicting statements. during the statement yesterday, we heard about for the first time unindicted co-conspirers. when wildstein pled guilty they talked about the mayor's endorsement. last time i checked, the governor's office itself should thought be worrying about endorsements from mayors. that's a campaign issue. we have to look at that. there are many unanswered questions. the fundamental issue for us is to understand how this happened so we can stop it from happening again. >> for chris christie politically,ther good news for him is his name is not coming up in anything the prosecutors talked about. it looked like there's going to be trials and they will be starting around the iowa caucuses. thank yous to you both. there is breaking news this morning, breaking word of a new royal baby over in london. palace press officers and a town crier announcing kate the duchess of cambridge has delivered a healthy baby girl earlier this morning. the hours old princess becomes fourth in line to the british throne behind her brother and her father and grandfather. crowds have been camping out outside the hospital where she was born for weeks now. hoping for a glimpse of the new arrival when she and her parents leave the hospital. today they're probably going to have to make do with any royal visitors stopping by to greet the tiny princess who is as yet unnamed. still ahead this hour. >> it is my practice not to comment on the legal processes involved. that would not be appropriate. but i can tell you that justice needs to be served. >> the calls for justice extending from the streets of baltimore to the white house. but first, what might david wildstein be getting in return for pleading guilty. and what do prosecutors get from him? that's next. stick with us. (vo) maggie wasn't thrilled when ben and i got married. i knew it'd take some time. and her sensitive stomach didn't make things easier. it was hard to know why... the move...her food...? so we tried purina cat chow gentle... ...because it's specially formulated for easy digestion. she's loved it ever since. and as for her and ben... ...she's coming around. purina cat chow gentle. one hundred percent complete and balanced for everyday feeding of adult cats. he says she's an undisciplined overwaterer. she claims he's a cruel underwaterer. with miracle-gro moisture control potting mix, plants only get water when they need it. fight ended. or shifted? miracle-gro. life starts here. they say after seeing a magician make his assistant disappear mr.clean came up with a product that makes dirt virtually disappear. he called it the magic eraser. it cleans like magic. even baked on dirt disappears right before your eyes. mr.clean's magic eraser. ♪ sfx: engine sounds introducing the new can-am spyder f3. with a cruising riding position and the most advanced vehicle stability system in the industry... ...you'll ride with a feeling of complete freedom and confidence. visit your can-am spyder dealer and test drive one today. the new spyder f3. riding has evolved. mr. wildstein who was then a director of interstate capital projects admitted this morning that he and others orchestrated an illegal scheme to reduce the lanes from three to one in order to punish the mayor of ft. lee for not endorsing governor christie's reelection. >> that was the united states attorney for new jersey in his remarks yesterday. breaking over a year of radio silence in his investigation of the bridgegate scandal. as we be been discussing fishman announced that david wildstein has pleaded guilty to two charges of conspiracy and that wildstein's alleged partners in the lane closures the former director of the port authority and the former deputy chief of staff. what evidence did he need to get to that announcement yesterday? and why was david wildtop stein the one who got to strike the deal. we have a former prosecutor from philadelphia. thank you for taking a few minutes. let me start with the basic questions what prosecutors outlined yesterday what david wildstein admitted was a conspiracy to jam up the lanes and punish the mayor and cover it up. if they're all a part of it why is wildsteenin gets the cut the deal and maybe no sentence when all this over. and kelly and boroni could get time? >> it could be that mr. wildstein blinked first. it's likely the prosecutors went to all three of their attorneys here of the three defendants' attorneys, showed them the e-mails, showed them the texts. might have told them some of the testimony that they had against them. and it was mr. wildstein and his attorney who decided to plead guilty to cooperate and to try to cut his losses. >> another thing is curious, a letter was released to prosecutors to wildstein that was their plea offer. this took place in january. we've been hearing and people who watch this show know we're been talking since january about what happened yesterday, the indictments, the plea deal all this stuff. we've been saying it could happen any day or week now. everybody was confused. why isn't it happening. it looks like this deal was cut four months ago. is there any explanation you could think of? >> according to mr. wild stein's attorney yesterday. as was reported he's cooperatelinging cooperating with the government. very likely the government agents government attorneys have been speaking to mr. wildstein for the last three or four months have gotten additional information from him and have added that to the indictment against ms. kelly and mr. boroni. this is typical. ft you enter into a plea agreement, you speak with them. try to get as much information from them any cooperation, any documents, texts, e-mail anything else,b and fold that into the indictment. as you can see the indictment reads like a book. there's a lot of information in there. there's a lot of information that's put in there to try to get ms. kelly or mr. boroni to blink, plead guilty and cooperate. >> based on what they said yesterday, bridget kelly's statement we'll play that a little bit. right now they're in no mood to do that. how strong do you think the case is that the government has put together? >> it's hard to say because the government clearly cherry picked the best e-mails and the best texts here. the defense attorneys very likely will look at this and may claim the e-mails or texts were taken out of context, that there's another entire story, which would play out much differently. and which would show that ms. kelly and mr. boroni are not guilty of this. so it really takes some time. and what's going to happen next is the government is going to have to give over a lot of their discovery, a lot of texts and a lot of the evidencery material they're relying on. at that point the defense attorneys will look at this and make a decision whether they feel the government has enough to prove them guilty. >> i am not a lawyer i'm not a trained in legal theory or anything. wow, time for some traffic in ft. lee e-mails seems like it will be tough to introduce context. we'll see what they come up with. we appreciate the time thank you very much. >> thank you. all right. still ahead, how bill boroni and bridget kelly hope to beat these charges. first reaction to the criminal charges filed in the freddie gray case in baltimore. >> our children they went out there and protests for the most part peacefully but they had to protest in order to get here. and they -- this creates a faith in them. life begins with a howl, we scream, shout shriek with joy. until, inhibition creeps in, our world gets smaller quieter, but life should be loud. sing loud, play loud, love loud. dentures shouldn't keep you quiet life should be ringing in your ears. live loud, super poligrip. hey, what's up? i'm ted. rudy and i have a lot of daily rituals. namaste. stay. taking care of our teeth is one of them. when i brush my teeth, he gets a milk-bone brushing chew. just another way to keep ourselves healthy. i'll go change. looking for one of these? yoplait. smooth, creamy, and craved by the whole family. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ unbelievable! toenail fungus? seriously? smash it with jublia! jublia is a prescription medicine proven to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. look at the footwork! most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application-site redness itching, swelling, burning or stinging, blisters, and pain. smash it! make the call and ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. visit jubliarx.com for savings coupons. we used to have so many empty rolls! mom! that's why we switched to charmin ultra mega roll. charmin ultra mega roll is 75% more absorbent so you can use less with every go. plus it even lasts longer than the leading thousand sheet brand. charmin ultra mega roll. i think the people of baltimore want more than anything else is the truth. that's what people around the country expect. >> that was president obama yesterday responding to questions about the charges that are being brought against six baltimore police officers in the case of freddie gray. obama said he would not discuss the legal process that's underway. he did say the justice system needs to do its work and his administration would help local officials get to what happened. i want to bring in our panel. the editor at large. and robert george editorial writer with the "new york post." thanks for joining us. let's start with we played towards the top of the show marilyn mosby who has emerged as the star of baltimore. i'm curious what you think of her move. on the one hand i was struck overnight by the coverage, ron allen this morning talking about how much the mood changed with that announcement. not what a contrast it was when we saw in baltimore earlier in the week. what a contrast it is to how these stories play out when there's a difference. the mood changed completely. at the same time what i'm hearing was did she rush this in a way that's going to jeopardize the case. did she overreach with some of the charges here some some have raises the concern is she responding too much about what's going on in the streets in terms of her time table. i'm curious how you think about what happened yesterday. >> i think she seemed like a sober, smart person doing her job. no one has shown any evidence that feels like a rush. it feels like like a rush to us because it's not like a case that languishes for so long. if somebody brings out evidence we'll look at it. i think that we're not used to seeing justice move like this. she's getting attacked by fox and other people for using the words no justice no peace. she said i heard you say no justice no peace. and i ask you for peace while i bring justice. he was talking to the community in a way that showed she heard, but not using that phrase, necessarily herself. >> looking at the timeline of the investigation, her office's investigation began shortly after gray's death, which i guess would make it two weeks of investigation. and if she just -- you know looking at the actual transport of gray and his arrest that's open and shut. there is -- you can kind of go through the evidence there and pretty quickly see that there really was no reason to arrest freddie gray. so i imagine that what her officers were waiting for was the autopsy report to confirm their suspicions about what they gathered in the investigation. so two weeks of investigating the arrests and the transport of gray plus an autopsy report to confirm your suspicions, it doesn't strike me as being rushed. if you look at the rodney king case, that was 11 days between the arrest and the indictment of officers. this is not an unusual amount of time. >> she is getting -- in fox news -- i noticed this on the right. she is taking a lot of heat for inserting that line what do you make of that? she's heard the protesters saying no justice no peace. >> i didn't have a problem with t. her presentation was kind of sober and so forth. in terms of the rushing of the charges, i mean it's tough to make -- actually say that for sure. most observers, though particularly in these cases involving police they -- the prosecutors do take a little bit more time because it is hard -- always harder to make a case of you know willful malice going against the police. and two weeks seems a little bit quick. we will see this. and it's true. the mood did change and that's certainly good given what was going on in baltimore. but if you can't -- if she's unable to actually bring guilty verdicts against these people you know, it's -- it could switch again. >> i mean that term too, i'm -- i always learn legal terms when something -- second degree depraved hard murder. i'm trying to figure out what the meaning is that. >> it's baltimore, home of edgar allen poe. >> one of those officers could have said they secured this guy, we need to make sure he doesn't get seriously injured and no one did. >> knowing it could lead to death, not that you're intending it to and you don't take the precaution. now i said in. i want to get to the national reaction on this. this will air tomorrow on nbc on "meet the press," chuck todd interviewed john boehner and the subject of baltimore came up. let's listen to what he had to say about that. >> do you believe we're in a national crisis when it comes to the relationship between african-americans and law enforcement? >> i do. i think that if you look at what's happened over the course of the last year you just got to scratch your head. and when you hear about these charges have been brought -- >> charging homicide. >> public servants should not violate the law. if these charges are true, it's outrageous and unacceptable. >> any surprise -- here's the republican house speaker say ing there is a crisis in the relationship between african-american and the police in this country. is there a surprise that he said that? >> i just made a face of surprise, i mean i'm a little surprised. part of me thinking he's from ohio recently had john crawford in ohio. i have to imagine in the back of his head there is like these events have happened in my state so i should probably show some concern. i think it was genuine. i'm not saying it wasn't genuine. hence my surprise. >> he does not come from the fever swamps of obama hatred. he is a main stream republican was a moderate republican. whatever he does to keep his job is one thing. in terms of what we can perceive in society we do have a crisis. >> even on the right, though there's a lot of criticism on rioting and so forth and certain judgments on the african-american communities and so forth, you have to keep in mind the one incident attack recently that i think is caused people to take a different look at this is was the shooting in south carolina. and when you actually saw a police officer shooting somebody in the back and then seemingly right there trying to cover up his own actions, i think has caused some people to start thinking, well, you know, maybe we don't always automatically take the -- >> hit the pause button -- >> we don't take the police's immediately. that these things kind of happen. that could factor in as well. >> you will be back again later in the show. thank you for now. still ahead, a new month brings new protests in seat belt.belt belt -- seattle. why what didn't happen in new jersey is as important as what did. stay with us. open the box and... (sniffing) new phone smell. jump on a video chat with my friend. he's a real fan boy, so i can't wait to show this off. picture is perfect. i got mine at verizon. i... didn't. it's buffering right out of the box he was impressed. i couldn't be happier. couldn't see him but i could hear him... making fun of me. vo: now get $200 or more when you trade in your smartphone for a galaxy s6 but hurry, this offer ends may 10th. verizon. you used to sleep like a champ. then boom... what happened? stress, fun, bad habits kids, now what? let's build a new, smarter bed using the dualair chambers to sense your movement, heartbeat, breathing. introducing the sleep number bed with sleepiqtm technology. it tracks your sleep and tells you how to adjust for a good, better and an awesome night. the difference? try adjusting up or down. you'll know cuz sleep iq™ tells you. only at a sleep number store where you'll find the best buy rated mattress with sleepiq technology. know better sleep with sleep number. (music) boys? stop less. go more. the passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. just one reason volkswagen is the #1 selling diesel car brand in america. based on the evidence that is currently available, to us we're not going to charge anybody else in this scheme. >> as compelling as the list of people who were charged in yesterday's bridge gate indictments are the people whose names weren't mentioned at all. my next guest and i have been anticipating how yesterday's events might unfold. the names we may or may not hear and how the u.s. attorney would connect the dots at the george washington bridge. brian thompson joins us. he's been on this case every twist and turn. first of all, we have had you on starting in january. we've been saying it's coming anytime, of course we find out yesterday, this plea deal was cut back in january. so there definitely was something going on. i want to ask you a bigger picture question. we were talking about this earlier in the show and the theory of the case that prosecutors presented yesterday, in one way it's not surprising. that said what a lot of people have suspected. it was payback for the mayor of ft. lee. there's a missing piece there for me. where does that something wildly disproportionate come from? that's not a routine thing. the mayor didn't endorse, let's not return a phone call. that is the level you might expect. the mayor didn't endorse and we're going to make a traffic jam. he didn't get into that yesterday. >> no he didn't. but bridget kelly. not into names. i was shocked to see her speaking after a year and a half she was very confident in herself. she didn't name names. she said she was not the only one in that office who knew about bridge issues. i think she was probably -- i'm going to go out on a limb here and referring to his campaign manager, who was not indicted as his attorney predicted. we have to say that. but that we do know from the record that he was aware of some of what was going on at that time. so what she has to do i think, probably and what her attorney will probably do to help prove -- try to prove her innocence is to establish who else knew about it even if they weren't indicted. who else may have had the idea, was it indeed wildstein's idea? there is some evidence in the record that it was. but it was shared around. people knew about this. what was the link with the political arm? >> i mean, do you think that -- my expectation based on what she said yesterday, and even wildstein's lawyer said afterwards, if this goes to trial you'll have fingers pointing in the direction of chris christie during this trial. >> absolutely. and the attorney for wildstein made that very clear. again, that the governor at least had knowledge of it in wildstein's telling. the week that it was happening. we've all seen those pictures of wildstein and beroany and the governor all laughing and palling around right before the 9/11 ceremonies in the middle of this week long traffic jam. so i think that will come out. for him to make the point of saying that at his news conference i think absolutely, they're going to try to make that link. you know for wildstein now, there's not a lot more he can do. he faces somewhere between 21 and 27 months except as a cooperator my guess is he'll face less than a year. >> prosecutors seemed to indicate they could make it better -- >> the tale is going to unfold and we don't know yet how. >> i want to get to two other things you mentioned. bridget kelly, this is -- after this press conference yesterday, they started a legal defense fund for her. the other thing i want to get to, some reporting on your end in terms of another piece of this. hoboken mayor, she was on the show a little over year ago. al she made allegations about sandy aid. the prosecutors addressed this specifically yesterday. >> i asked the prosecutor i asked fishman, what about hoboken, he said we don't comment on the status of investigations, whether we did or we didn't. which he said many times. a few hours later, i was given a copy of one of the clearance letters that have been sent before the news conference. fishman was being kind of dissembling there. before the news conference it was sent to the exdca commissioner and the former sandy czar and to lieutenant governor saying we could find no evidence there was anything to t. mayor zimmer put out a statement before those letters went out saying that i understand, you know whatever the prosecutors says today, i still stand by my story. and she has repeat that. >> she is -- we can show you quickly, to give you a taste of this. she's been on twitter. reporters who have been reporting -- there you go you can see. a reporter reported this she wants to make the point not criminally charged does not mean acted properly. dawn zimmer still standing by her story. there is an important development in terms of those letters. bribnan thompson thank you. will the rallies in baltimore and the media coverage lead to any changes in baltimore? why was this happening in seattle yesterday? the worst of it having nothing to do with baltimore. i accept that i'm not 21. i accept i'm not the sprinter i was back in college. i even accept that i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem. but i won't accept giving it less than my best. so if i can go for something better than warfarin ...i will. eliquis. eliquis... reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin plus it had less major bleeding than warfarin... eliquis had both. that really mattered to me. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. i accept that i'm not as fast, but i'm still going for my personal best... and for eliquis. reduced risk of stroke... plus less major bleeding. ask your doctor... if eliquis is right for you. making a fist something we do to show resolve. to defend ourselves. to declare victory. so cvs health provides expert support and vital medicines. make a fist for me. at our infusion centers or in patients homes. we help them fight the good fight. cvs health, because health is everything. while the state attorney's office continued to do its work this community and other communities like it all over the country, have much work to do of their own. >> that is freddie gray's family lawyer reacting to the bombshell news yesterday that six baltimore police officers will be charged in connection with gray's death. a swift and stunning development generating a lot of attention in the past 24 hours. and over the last three weeks. it seems like there are a lot of eruptions like these these days. sudden saturation media coverage of places bike west baltimore, or ferguson missouri or sanford florida. something that captivates everyone's attention and then everyone moves on. what do we learn from moments like these? what about the people who are on the ground in baltimore or ferguson or any of the other epicenters for these media storms. is the brief burst of attention enough to bring about real and lasting change? michael fletcher a national correspondent with the "new york post" and harry smith from nbc news is with us. ...and takes the wheel right from your very hands... ...this isn't that car. the first and only car with direct adaptive steering. ♪ the 328 horsepower q50 from infiniti. listen up... i'm reworking the menu. veggies you're cool... mayo, corn dogs... you are so out of here! ahh... the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein... and 26 vitamins and minerals. and now with... ...twice as much vitamin d ...which up to 90% of people don't get enough of. ohhhhhhh. the sunshine vitamin! ensure now has 2x more vitamin d to support strong bones. ensure. take life in. congratulations. you're down with crestor. yes! when diet and exercise aren't enough, adding crestor lowers bad cholesterol up to 55%. crestor is not for people with liver disease or women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. tell your doctor all medicines you take. call your doctor if you have muscle pain or weakness, feel unusually tired have loss of appetite, upper belly pain, dark urine or yellowing of skin or eyes. these could be signs of serious side effects. i'm down with crestor! make your move. ask your doctor about crestor. there's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world, our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them. and we know you love them too. my question to you is when we were out here protesting all last week for six days straight peacefully there were no news cameras or helicopters, there was no riot gear and nobody heard us. now that we burned down buildings and set businesses on fire and looted buildings now all of a sudden somebody wants to hear us. why does it take a catastrophe like this in order for america to hear our cry? >> that's a clip that got a lot of attention this week. harry, let me start with you, we set this up in the last segment by saying i think people recognize a type of coverage they saw this week where it's every channel in the world desnds on this neighborhood in baltimore, online everybody is tweeting and doing live videos and everything. we're not there yet but we're probably a couple days of everybody leaving and this becomes a past tense thing. >> the conversations in newsrooms is how do we take resources out. >> as a consumer of news as people watching this nationally and engaging with it in some way, when this happens, do we actually learn anything from this coverage? >> not much except from a sound bite like that. i think i saw more of that this week people actually going into the community and hearing the voices of the people who are there. otherwise, those places at least from a media perspective, are basically neglected. >> so michael, let me ask you about that. you had an interesting piece this week someone who has lived in bal you look at the coverage you sort of were exposed to this week what do you think the national media got wrong about baltimore and what did it get right? >> well, i mean they talked a lot about -- some of the dire poverty, i think underlies what you saw happening with freddie gray and what his feeling -- the tension between police and certain communities in the city. i think that point was made. in some ways what they got wrong -- it wasn't so much presence of the media disstorts the story. people perform for the cameras. and that became the center of the o be part of the action so to speak. i don't know how we could avoid that as the media. that becomes the thing. people come out there talking heads come out there. people come out to observe the talking heads. even during journalism. they're interviewing talking heads as they're standing there. that's what they got wrong. >> you could see the first night of the curfew some of the national guard is in there, there is so many cameras around. there were more media at that one intersection than there were anybody else. and it creates its own sort of -- there's a vacuum that needs to be filled and who is going to fill that vacuum. >> what is the solution? we played that clip from somebody who lives in baltimore where were you before the riots began, i wonder from a media standpoint how you think about that. on the one hand she's raising a very legitimate point, on the other hand i can tell you i see the ratings everybody for capable news. it's not until the riots start that people tune in. then they have an unsatiable appetite. >> it's riot porn. we're guilty on a lot of different levels. the appetite for, hey, let's dive into this. let's dive into the story of endemic poverty. let's talk about the fact that some of these -- so many programs so many different piles of money have been shoved into that corner and that corner. we've read a lot this week about that neighborhood where gray is from. and the different things that have been tried there. there's a larger more -- almost insidious problem of people who are falling off a cliff. if we're this big giant country, we're basically saying that's okay with us. and as a media, a that's what we've said. is you know that's somebody else's problem. it's not ours. >> and as we say, it is a pattern, you kind of sense there will be another one of these a few months from now. it will be some other city we're don't know where. this happens. it's the new media reality. short on time this hour. thanks to you both. appreciate that. another full hour of discussion and analysis of everything that's happening in baltimore and new jersey. stay with us. if you can't put a feeling into words, why try? at 62,000 brush movements per minute philips sonicare leaves your mouth with a level of clean like you've never felt before giving you healthier gums in just two weeks. innovation and you. philips sonicare. bring us your aching and sleep deprived. bring us those who want to feel well rested. aleve pm. the only one to combine a sleep aid... plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. be a morning person again, with aleve pm. the new s6 hits the stores and i'm like... whoa. open the box and... (sniffing) new phone smell. jump on a video chat with my friend. he's a real fan boy, so i can't wait to show this off. picture is perfect. i got mine at verizon. i... didn't. it's buffering right out of the box he was impressed. i couldn't be happier. couldn't see him but i could hear him... making fun of me. vo: now get $200 or more when you trade in your smartphone for a galaxy s6 but hurry, this offer ends may 10th. verizon. hey pal? you ready? can you pick me up at 6:30? ah... (boy) i'm here! i'm here! (cop) too late. i was gone for five minutes! ugh! move it. you're killing me. you know what, dad? i'm good. (dad) it may be quite a while before he's ready, but our subaru legacy will be waiting for him. (vo) the longest-lasting midsize sedan in its class. the twenty-fifteen subaru legacy. it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru. ♪ ♪ you know i tried one of those bargain paper towels but i had to use so many sheets per spill... the roll just disappeared. i knew i should've bought bounty. bounty is 2x more absorbent and strong when wet. just look how much longer bounty lasts versus one of those bargain brand towels. and that's a good deal. bounty. the long lasting quicker picker upper and now try new bounty with dawn. available in the paper towel aisle. i was sickened and heartbroken by the statement of charges that we heard today. because no one in our city is above the law. justice must apply to all of us. equally. >> let me make something very clear. i am not guilty of these charges. i never ordered or conspired with david wildstein to close or realign lanes at the bridge for any reason much less for retribution. >> baltimore and bridgegate. all right. thanks for staying with us for another busy hour ahead. we are still balancing the two big stories dominating headlines this morning. one of which threatened to be overlooked yesterday in the ges filed against baltimore police officers. six of them implicated in the death of freddie gray. in new jersey the bridge gate investigation moving forward with a key ally to governor chris christie pleading guilty to his role in the lane closures and indictments for two other officials that he claims worked with him. they deny it. all the details and what it means for chris christie's potential presidential run are just ahead. but first, in baltimore, six police officers have been charged in the death of freddie gray. all six officers were booked and released on bail last night. the prosecutor in this case 35-year-old marilyn mosby says freddie gray's death 19 days ago was a homicide. and that his arrest was illegal. a florlawyer for one of the officers says none of them did anything wrong. al police unions are demanding a special prosecutor take over the case. here's addressed the allegation last night in all in with chris hayess. >> there is no conflict of interest. the family mr. gray's family attorney donated to my campaign and supported me. i had over 700 people who i don't see how there's a conflict of interest with reference to that. we nbc's ron allen. ron, a different tone a dramatically different tone it sounds like on the streets last night. and yesterday, in response to this, tell us about what's going on in baltimore right now. >> reporter: it was a very for that matter. everybod indictments came down so quickly andasting for weeks if not months. this happened much more quickly. it's still a long road ahead. people are saying this is a big first step but this is far from a conviction. it's going to take a long time. there's likely to be a trial and a complicated legal process. obviously, the police officers are going to push back hard against these charges. the prosecutor here seems very determined. she is very determined clearly. and she's unusual. she's very young. she's relatively inexperienced. bu but she has a experienced staff around her. in her remarks she was making the points, something is different here. this is a new day here. she talked about this was something for the young people in this community, herself being one of the new young leaders in this community. things are different in baltimore going forward. she seems determined to press these charges and move the case forward. >> ron allen live in baltimore. appreciate that update. turning now to bridge gate and to the forceful defense given by the two top allies of governor chris christie who were indicted yesterday on nine counts each of conspiracy, fraud, and other charges. >> for over a year i have remained quiet. while many of the people whom i believed in, trusted and respected, have attempted to publicly discredit and even humiliate me. >> and that of course was christie's former kelly. she wrote that infamous time for traffic problems in ft. lee e-mail. it's communication that was addressed to david wildstein who was a top official at the agency that oversees the bridge. wildstein entered a not guilty plea. he alleges that all three of them worked together in a conspiracy to close down those lanes on the george washington bridge to get back at the mayor of ft. lee nooungew jersey. baroni through a lawyer -- as we just heard bridget kelly both vehemently denying the charges. >> david wildstein is a liar. >> i am not a liar. david wildstein is a liar. for the indictment to suggest that i was the only person in the governor's officer who was aware of the george washington bridge issue, is ludicrous. >> all right. joining us now is a long time activist, a friend of bill baroni. thank you for taking a few minutes this morning. let you ask you, you're a friend of his, you know his personally. did he see this co was going to be indicted? >> he knew it was a possibility. one would have to be a hermit on a mountain not to know of all this noise that's been taking place that this wasn't a possibility. >> what was his reaction? this is -- you now have david wildstein and bill baroni and wildstein were good friends for a long time. and you now have wildstein standing up there in court and saying this was a conspiracy. i was part of this so was bill baroni and now he'll be the star witness against bill bearonibaroni. >> i have been worki54 years for making the world a better place for other people there is no truth to this document. bill baroni is? sent. i wouldn't put my own considerable reputation on the line if i didn't believe that. this is a man who has devoted his life to public service. who has shown courage consistently in his public life coming out as the only republican for marriage equality in new jersey. for marijuana legalization. for paid medical league. the only republican. most important, it runs counterto who this person is. this is a person who believes and has spent a lifetime from a spiritual basis to help others. and judge judy -- i have to come out of the closet on something here. judge judy -- i'm a judge judy fan. i never miss a show. she says if it doesn't make sense, it's most likely not true. >> what about it then doesn't make sense? i understand you have a personal connection to him and personal loyalty there. but this guy is the top day-to-day appointee of chris christie at the port authority. these lane closures happened september 9th to september 13th. 2013. we have e-mails that have come out. bridget kelly is saying time for traffic problems in ft. lee. if he's not guilty of what he's charged with. what's the story? did he have no idea -- >> i wasn't in the grand jury room. i wasn't with the prosecutors. i don't know all the details. i know sound bites. but what i do know is that it doesn't make sense. that a man with a distinguished career including probably bridget kelly would throw it all out the window for some sort of petty revenge in a small city in new jersey. and i know that it runs counter to everything i know about this man. yes, i but there's a lot of way as friend can express themselves to support someone. quietly and i wouldn't have to come on the show. >> what is the defense then? you're offering you're a character defense -- what's. >> the defense is he didn't do it. he participated as a staff member on a traffic city. as far as i can read from the papers i'm getting as much information as you are. i'm not a lawyer and him and i haven't talked about the details of the case. we have an excerpt from a memo here and there. we all know ambitious prosecutors have to come down with indictments. >> that sounds key then, the idea that the defense here could be that he believed this was -- he knew this was going on he was in the dark about the nature of it and he believed this was actually a traffic study throughout the whole thing? >> well absolutely. i mean he went volunteerarily and testified. he knows, he's a liar. he knows he could have been charged with perjury. he wasn't. you know that's the interesting thing. this man is innocent. he's got -- >> he's being indicted in part because of that testimony. >> an indictment is not guilt. let's remember that. simply because you're indicted is not geltuilt. he'll have his day in court. the prosecutor will have his day in court. it defies common sense. >> did more people -- do you think chris christie knew about this? >> oh, i -- look i'm not a chris christie fan, let me say that off the bat. i think he's a bully and would do anything to advance his career. we saw him do what this prosecutor did today in indicting democrats. there is no way in my mind that chris christie didn't know about this. and i don't know what mr. wildstein's reasons were for turning a guilty plea. i assumed he assumed he was guilty if he pleaded guilty. what i do know, is that i have seen great people do stupid things. in 54 years in politics. 54 years. i've seen great people do stupid things and i have seen less than able people rise to greatness. bill baroni is a great person who doesn't do stupid thing. >> what was reaction yesterday when he got the news? >> heartbroken. he has worked all in a time of sound bites and social media, how do you get that out? of course he's heartbroken. he is strong he's a tough man. i'm honored to know him. and i'm convinced with all my heart that once he has his day in court, he will beyou, on this desk explaining the horror he went through as an innocent man. >> all right. you've offered a strong sort account of his character. we will see what the legal defense is here. you seem to be suggesting that it's that he thought this was a traffic study the whole way through. certainly given the testimony before the legislature that he gave months after this that is something he's going to have to prove. that he knew it was -- believed it was a traffic study. >> isn't it interesting he could have been found by perjury? >> he's being indicted for it. >> not perjury. >> he's being indicted for a lot of things. >> he told the truth before the legislature. >> we'll find out in a court of law what happened. thank you for coming in. how many americans still perceive the city of baltimore? one of the stars of wire joins us. the bridge gate problems impacting chris christie for president? >> i had no knowledge or involvement in this issue. in its planning or execution. and i am stunned by the abject stupidity that was shown here. (vo) maggie wasn't thrilled when ben and i got married. i knew it'd take some time. and her sensitive stomach didn't make things easier. it was hard to know why... the move...her food...? so we tried purina cat chow gentle... ...because it's specially formulated for easy digestion. she's loved it ever since. and as for her and ben... ...she's coming around. purina cat chow gentle. one hundred percent complete and balanced for everyday feeding of adult cats. if you misplaced your discover card you can now use freeze it to prevent new purchases on your account in seconds. and once you find it you can switch it right on again. you're back! freeze it, only from discover. get it at discover.com. part of the appeal on soloing big walls to me is to be in this amazing place that hardly anybody gets to go. if someone browses my website i hope they get a sense of the beauty of the places i get to go climbing. i'm alex honnold and this is my squarespace. (music) boys? stop less. go more. the passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. just one reason volkswagen is the #1 selling diesel car brand in america. in a series of tweets yesterday, new jersey governor chris christie responded to the bridge gate indictments. quoting some of them today's charges make clear that what i've said from day one is true. i had no knowledge or involvement in the planning or execution of this act. the moment i first learned of this unacceptable behavior i took action firing staff believed to be accountable, calling for an outside investigation and agreeing to fully cooperate with all appropriate investigations. which i have done. now 15 months later, it is time to let the justice system do its job. and in an interview that was taped before yesterday, but that was aired last night on fox news christie reaffirmed his innocence. >> there has not been one fact that's come out over the course of the last 15 months that's contradicted anything i've said after an internal investigation, after a highly partisan democratic legislative investigation. nothing has come out to contradict what i said in an hour and 50 minute long press conference the day after this became public. and nothing will because i was not aware of it. but i am accountable for it. >> the question remains how much does this whole ordeal hurt chris christie? is it too much too late for a formidable presidential run for christie. the panel is back with me. so we had -- i guess, the question that i keep coming back to is when can christie -- is there a way christie can ever just completely walk away from this where people are want thinking about it, it's not a cloud over him? i'm looking back to that last segment we had, he's a friend of bill baroni he says i think chris christie knew about this. you had the lawyer for wildstein there is evidence chris christie knew about it. it tells me as this trial plays out the name christie is going to keep coming up and the trial isn't going to start until early next year. >> it's over for him. it reminds me of a twilight zone episode where a guy is walking around and he's dead and doesn't know it. >> i have said this about christie everybody politician is confident in their own skills. chris christie has an unusual level of self-confidence. it's self-confidence that has been rewarded. he thinks he can get himself out of this on a debate stage. that's what i think. >> problem is, though, he had -- you're right. he's a great personal confidence. he had issues completely separate from brinldge gate that made it difficult for him to go forward. when jeb bush declared in december, that gobbled up a lot of the financial base that christie was looking at. and things frankly, have gotten worse on that side. others have gone to scott walker people that could lay claim to the part of the sort of establishment moderate republican base. so that was a problem already. what bridge gate has done, it has eroded political support in new jersey as well. and while it's true that nothing has come out that personally involves him, the political damage i think is really been something he can't really recover from. >> the headlines say a cloud descends on christie's white house hopes. no where does chris christie knew of the scheme. it was a plan of political vengeance that was conceived in furtherance of mr. crithhristie's advancement. >> you know not only does that look bad for anyone who is potentially thinking of supporting christie maybe he wasn't involved but if i cross him the wrong way will he try to do me in? like robert said you know there are -- marco rubio, scott walker, jeb bush there are these people who can occupy the same space chris christie in the republican party. if you're like a voter or donor or activists, it's like why christie? >> i feel like if this hasn't happened. if bridge gate hadn't happened my hunch -- a lot of people disagree. my hunch is chris christie would be the front runner. there was so much interest -- they maybe can connect to where this came from. there was interest in the idea of a republican who could win in blue states and change the map -- we're looking at that and we're saying how wildly disproportionate like going after this mayor of a town of 30,000 people. if you think about it if there was this appetite for a republican that can win ap blue state. you will do everything you can to drive up the margin. >> it was all there. but, i mean now his best -- okay. maybe he knew nothing. his best defense is that i had a bunch of people very close to me on my staff waging vengeance in my name maybe behind my back. >> the problem is even if bridge gate hadn't happened. he became damaged goods with the base because of the fallout of hurricane sandy and his supposed embrace of president obama. >> the embracement of obama. you're shaking your head. >> i don't think -- i think that may have damaged him a little. his big problem without bridge gate and his moments passed. the reason why in 2013 and 2012 that he was like this figure in the republican party. there was this desperate craving for someone who could seem like they could go toe to toe with democrats and being leader and take on barack obama. and that's passed. >> it was a horrible field in 2012. you got a very very strong field right now. >> right. >> all the inadquencies that existed now don't exist now. because this is an open presidential election,b conservatives -- even moderate republicans are thinking we can get someone more conservative than christie into office. why -- christie's whole appeal even without bridge gate kind of doesn't exist at this day and time. >> i take the point is, i just -- my analysis of chris christie for whatever little this is he's thinking ahead to august 15th athi can make all these moments go away with those patented moments he gets the right question and phrases it the right way. i swear that's what's on his mind. my thanks to you. still ahead, where does the unfolding bridge gate prosecution head next? what should you know about this protest, it had absolutely nothing to do with baltimore. ♪ (piano music) ♪ fresher dentures, for the best first impression. love loud, live loud polident. ♪ ♪ fresher dentures... ...for those breathless moments. hug loud, live loud, polident. ♪ ♪ now? can i at least put my shoes on? if your bladder is calling the shots ... you may have a medical condition called overactive bladder ... ...or oab you've got to be kidding me. i've had enough! it's time to talk to the doctor. ask your doctor how myrbetriq may help treat... ...oab symptoms of urgency frequency, and leakage. which may mean fewer trips to the bathroom. myrbetriq (mirabegron) may increase your blood pressure. myrbetriq may increase your chances... ...of not being able to empty your bladder. tell your doctor right away if you have... ...trouble emptying your bladder or have a weak urine stream. myrbetriq may affect... ...or be affected by other medications... ...so tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. before taking myrbetriq, tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems. common side effects include increased blood pressure, common cold symptoms, urinary tract infection, and headache. take charge by talking to your doctor about your oab symptoms and myrbetriq. find out if you can get your first prescription at no cost by visiting myrbetriq.com we all enter this world with a shout and we see no reason to stop. so cvs health is creating industry-leading programs and tools that help people stay on medicines as their doctors prescribed. it could help save tens of thousands of lives every year. and that w ould be something worth shouting about. cvs health, because health is everything. crowds that gathered on the streets of baltimore last night were not there for angry protests, they were largely there to celebrate the announcement that six police officers have been charged in the death of freddie gray. one of them with murder. last night it was the scene in seattle where police ended up clashing with protesters. some of them threw rocks and chairs at officers. it's a tradition in seattle to hold rallies on the first day in may. both of these peaceful marchs. when you hear there was violence in seattle,b you should know it has nothing to do with what's been happening in baltimore. we have the real world developments in baltimore. next wildstein is the star witness now for u.s. attorney paul fishman. what does wildstein get in return for that plea agreement? stay with us. if you're running a business legalzoom has your back. over the last 10 years we've helped one million business owners get started. visit legalzoom today for the legal help you need to start and run your business. legalzoom. legal help is here. ♪ ♪ there is an ancient rhythm... [♪] that flows through all things... through rocky spires... [♪] and ocean's swell... [♪] the endless... stillness of green... [♪] and in the restless depths of human hearts... [♪] the voice of the wild within. [ male announcer ] take zzzquil and sleep like... the kids went to nana's house... for the whole weekend! [ snoring ] [ male announcer ] zzzquil, the non habit forming sleep aid that helps you sleep easily and wake refreshed. because sleep is a beautiful thing. appears buster's been busy. yeah, scott. i was about to use the uh. i've got a much better idea, lad! scotts ez seed uses the finest seed, fertilizer and natural mulch so you can grow grass anywhere! thanks, scott. ez seed really works! get scotts ez seed. it's guaranteed. this is new jersey. and traffic is a fact of life in this state. but even in ft. lee, traffic is really never that bad. and not without a reason. sometimes it's a car accident. sometimes it's road work. sometimes it's weather. but none of those somewhat routine things were the cause of that particular mess. >> the u.s. attorney for new jersey alleging yesterday that the bridge gate lane closures were a retribution scheme not an accident. his announcement may seem like a finish line. it's the first step in a long legal process that will likely see bridget kelly and bill baroni stand trial. david wildstein pleading guilty to a lesser charge. how is the case against kelly? she was governor chris christie former deputy chief of staff. how are those legal charges likely to play out? we have a senior editor for politics, she has been covering the investigation from the very beginning. sheaf was in newark yesterday. let me start with we had bill baroni's friend on a little while ago. he was suggesting to me the defense are likely to hear from bill baroni in all this. it's look the prosecutors are alleging and wildstein is admitting to a fake traffic study. the fake traffic study was the pretense for the shutdown and it was how they were going to cover it up. baroni is going to be claiming i never knew it was fake. i thought this was a real legitimate traffic study. what do you make of that defense? >> it's his chosen path that wildstein is a liar. he fooled me. the problem for bill baroni is there is all the documentary evidence, i mean we know that he ignored the phone calls, for a week. from the ft. lee mayor. desperate pleas saying public safety is being endangered. please help me. why am i being punished. so we know that that happens. we know he had this mean way of referring to the mayor as the serbian. all of that is hard to explain away if you thought it was a traffic study. why would you be ignoring all of this. i think that's going to be tough. but, on the other hand obviously, that's the defense. that wildstein is a liar and he obviously -- for somebody to do something as mean as this on the first day of school is not going to make that person very sympathetic in front of a jura se. >> we've been speculating for so long who would end up cutting a deal these three end up being the ones prosecutors focus on. are you surprised it's wildstein that cut the deal or was he the most likely one to cut the deal. >> i think that was his clear path from the very beginning. as soon as we saw the e-mails that he had released. al he released so much. everybody else's strategy was to release as little as possible. bridget kelly, christie's former campaign manager not named yesterday. went to court and said we don't have to release this. wildstein gave him everything on anybody, including stuff very related to the bridge which may be leading the federal prosecutors in other investigationive directions. >> and in terms of chris christie, we were talking about the politics for him. as this plays out, as we move toward a trial for bridget killy and baroni. we had baroni's friend saying i think chris christie knew about this. you have wildstein's lawyer saying chris christie knew about this. you had bridget kelly saying you're crazy if you think i'm the only one in the office that knew about this. >> i think that -- best case scenario for him, nothing else comes out about it. that's what he said i said. i'm not worried, i knew nothing. al i've been honest. i've told the truth. however, the fact that three such senior people in his office could do this i mean this was the first day of school. and four hours to get to work this was really really bad. the fact that they would develop this scheme how could that happen? how could you set up an office where people would think that would the right thing to do? after all, they were doing it for the governor. they were doing it to get him an endorsement. and he can't get away from that. that's a question that i think should he become a factor again in this republican primary, that voters, some opponent will ask them to -- >> i think just the idea the nature of the administration for the people who follow it and cover it closely, the idea that at the height of an election campaign something that massive could take place in the name of the governor's campaign without the governor knowing, certainly it's possible. prosecutors didn't have anything to say otherwise yesterday. a lot of people find that hard to swallow. thanks to you, new york public radio. appreciate that. still ahead this hour from the streets of west baltimore to the small screen. how much does this overlap on the wire? we'll get the latest from baltimore from the man who used to run baltimore's police department. stay with us. rip and shut your mouth. allergy medicines open your nose over time, but add a breathe right strip and pow! it instantly opens your nose up to 38% more. so you can breathe and sleep. add breathe right to your allergy medicine. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right and look for the calming scent of breathe right lavender in the sleep aisle. ♪ ♪ (ee-e-e-oh-mum-oh-weh) (hush my darling...) (don't fear my darling...) (the lion sleeps tonight.) (hush my darling...) man snoring (don't fear my darling...) (the lion sleeps tonight.) woman snoring take the roar out of snore. yet another innovation only at a sleep number store. hey! have an awesome vacation everyone! thank you so much! you're so sweet. yummy! key lime pie at 90 calories. it is so good for not giving in. in my 20 years career as a law enforcement officer, and 16 years as an attorney i have never seen such a hurried rush to file criminal charges which i believe are driven by forces which are separate and apart from the application of law, and the facts of this case as we know them. these officers did nothing wrong. >> that was the baltimore police union responding to the charges being brought against six police officers in the death of freddie gray. the 25-year-old sustained fatal injuries while in police custody last month. baltimore's top prosecutor marilyn mosby alleges yesterday that gray's arrest was illegal. that the knife he was carrying was not a legitimate cause for arrest. that the officer transporting gray to the police wagon showed reckless disregard for his life and officers failed to seek medical attention for gray even after he said he couldn't breathe. fraternity order of police said mosby should recuse herself and appoint a special prosecutor because she has personal ties to the gray family attorney and her husband served on the council. calls for her to step aside are absurd. >> causes of interest leads the family -- mr. gray's family donated to my campaign and supported me. i had over 700 people who donated to my campaign. including the fop. i don't see how there's any sort of conflict of interest with reference to that. >> and joining me now former baltimore police commissioner kevin clark and msnbc contributor back with us. let me start with you. let me start on the question the fraternal order of police saying there's a conflict of interest. her husband is on the city council. one of the lawyers for the family has given her campaign money. do you think there's anything to that charge? >> absolutely not. this is the typical front that she is going to have to deal with in the city. she is going up against a culture. she's trying to turn a aircraft carrier in a river right now. they're going to look for any issue to derail her credibility at this point. so they're going to look into a family, they're going to look into her. these small issues are going to grow and try to make her into an issue, not what she is trying to get done there. >> so what are the reaction do you think -- is there one -- the police in baltimore, is there one uniform reaction from the police to what she's doing to these charges, or are all divisions within the police world to how they're reacting? >> people don't understand. police officers come from all walks of life. we all have our own opinions. we may not publicly express them amongst each other, some people support what she does some people will never support what she does. what the issue is right now, is people should be concerned are the police going to continue to work? if i'm a police officer on the street, the leadership which we have not seen sets the tone. i'm a cop, we took a bat over the head yesterday. whether we believe those guys are innocent or guilty the world is looking at us as a bad department. do i want to risk my life now? the police run towards gun fire. they run fords atoerds towards a robber. is what i'm going to do to get there is going to make me lose my job. >> mosby was asked about this. this idea you talked about last night -- let me play how she responded to that. >> if you come in next week and you start hearing from your lawyers that these cops aren't showing up to testify on court dates that you need to make your cases, what are you going to do? >> you hold them accountable. you have to change the culture. it starts with accountability. >> it's interesting what chris was talking about there, what kevin was talking about a second ago, reminds me of what we saw in new york back in december bill de blasio -- >> with pat lynch. >> and the police union up here. >> they were instructed not to do their job if you're going to put us in danger we're not going to protect you. i understand the fear and the resentment, especially on the part of good cops to what they're going through now. but it really can't stand. i mean we do have to find a way to hold people accountable. this is a clear cut case. this man was arrested for nothing. he was clearly harmed in police custody. it's not a case where there's any doubt about -- they never claimed he threatened them. he had a switch blade someplace. there was never a claim he came at us. all these things that we've seen there was no toy gun, no -- there was no real cause for fear that they raised in the beginning. and now we see that this happened inside the van. i think the threat that police will not do their jobs, if they're held accountable, it breaks my heart. >> let me ask you from a practical standpoint how do you -- if you're the prosecutor or mayor, if you're trying to hold rogue officers to account, and you don't want to have the kind of reaction you're talking about from the entire police force i they feel they lost the confidence of the leaders nft city. the union will defend its own. that's what they're there for. on the one hand you can't expect the union is going to say, take this one, take that one. on the other hand, how do you have accountability? >> well i think the issue in baltimore is that they lost confidence in both the mayor and the police commissioner. we haven't seen the police commissioner since the news broke. and i think that the police officers -- the policy is set at the top. and the culture like this thing about the rough ride in the van, if you're at the top in the job, you hear about this you have -- you can't tolerate that. so if that exists within the culture of the job, stop pointing at the police officers go to the people that are in charge and ask them the hard questions. did they know this was going on. and i think right now, the police officers feel as if they're on a ship that's just sailing along with nothing on it and everybody's firing at them. and it's no direction coming from the top. >> i think there's going to be moving up the food chain. that's where it gets difficult. it's harder when you get to somebody who has more power and influence than a couple officers that are on the beat. thank you to you both. up next we'll talk to a star of a show that showed baltimore's grittier side years before this past week's protest. the wire. it's up next. i don't. she couldn't really hear me. i tell her how much she means to me. but she thinks i said she was always mean to me. i could hear how happy she was. now she definitely loves my sister more. vo: mother's day is almost here. now get 200 dollars or more when you trade in your smartphone for a galaxy s6. but hurry, this offer ends may 10th. verizon. ♪ if you're looking for a car that drives you... ...and takes the wheel right from your very hands... ...this isn't that car. the first and only car with direct adaptive steering. ♪ the 328 horsepower q50 from infiniti. bring us your aching... and sleep deprived. bring us those who want to feel well rested and ready to enjoy the morning ahead. aleve pm. the first to combine a sleep aid... plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. for pain relief that can last until the am. so you... you... and you, can be a morning person again. aleve pm, for a better am. good night, moon. >> good night, moon. >> there you go. good night, stars. >> good night, stars. >> good night, popo. >> good night, popo. >> good night. >> good night, hustlers. >> good night, hustlers. >> that's how millions of americans have come to see baltimore, as the gritty drug-plagued crime-ridden city depicted in the series "the wire." the show's last episode ended seven years ago but it's a picture of baltimore that's stuck in the public's consciousness. there were 207 homicides last year. nearly a quarter of all residents live below the poverty line. and they have lower life expectancies than north korea. but as "the washington post" pointed out this week don't confuse a fictional show from reality. "the wire" doesn't explain baltimore. enthusiasm for the show helps explain how fans of the show would like to feel about baltimore. we want to believe we have deep sympathy for and understanding of people whose lives bear the marks of institutional racism decades of dreadful criminal justice policy and a profound lack of legitimate economic opportunity and then we'd like to feel like there's nothing we can really do so there's nothing we are required to do. we're joined by sonya who played the detective on "the wire." the baltimore that america saw through "the wire" and the baltimore that america saw this week through the news media's coverage of baltimore, everything we've learned this week how much overlap is there in your mind? >> i think that to be honest with you, i think post monday night the baltimore that you saw was rarely depicted in "the wire." i think you saw the city coming together on tuesday, prayer vigils, block parties, people cleaning up. that you did not see in "the wire." but i think that the sort of snapshot of the effects of poverty, there was some overlap between what was depicted on "the wire" and what we saw prior. >> it's interesting. you are saying this week seems to have ended on a hopeful note coming together. i was seeing scenes last night of police hugging protesters and warm feelings between them. so it was encouraging. it does occur to me when you think back to "the wire," i have to say that the message from "the wire" was at least a hopeless one. when i watched the show it was explaining, hey, this is the way it is. this is how people struggle to survive the way it is. it wasn't pointing to any way it could be better. the way the show left the country about not just baltimore but cities like baltimore, did you think it was sort of a depressing one? >> oh absolutely. but let's be clear, there's a lot of truth to that depiction. we would not have had monday night if there was no truth to that depiction. so you know we have the rare occasion where we have police and community members hugging, but look what it took. now, there are a lot of really good people in baltimore, activists, organizers teachers community members who really care about their communities but they've not been supported and given the resources to transform that city in the way that they want to. so what you saw was them riding the tide of this one city official who stood up for their interests. and based on just a drop they're able to come together in that way, imagine what they can do if they had real resources, if the city really whackbacked them if the budget reflected their needs. >> what do you think people who watch "the wire" and know baltimore from "the wire," you filmed in baltimore. i mean you filmed in some of the toughest neighborhoods in baltimore. so you've seen the finished product from your show and you've seen the reality on the ground in baltimore. what do you think the biggest misconception about baltimore from somebody who has only watched the show? >> that people living in marginalized, poor communities, don't care about their neighborhoods. that all of them are lazy and they just allow their neighborhoods to go into a sort of dill ap idation. all of that is a multilayered multi-tiered sort of development that has -- that starts with i think the way that our city state and federal government treats its people and serves its people. i think a lot of their needs have not been met. i think a lot of campaign promises have not been answered. and i think people are -- you know up until this point people have got to a place of hopelessness. that doesn't mean they don't sweep their stoop, they don't dress their kids to go to school doesn't mean families are not sitting down to help their children with their homework. not everyone is able to do that because of different levels of dysfunction and poverty that has encroached on people's lives, but it's a mixed bag. there are plenty of people who care about their communities there in baltimore in those marginalized communities in particular. i think people don't believe that. >> that's a great point and a good note to end the show on. as you say, the week at least in baltimore ending on an optimistic note. we'll see what happens from this point forward. thanks to actress sonya sohn from "the wire." thank you for your time. thank you for getting up with us today. join us tomorrow morning where we'll be speaking to the mayors of three cities and the challenges they face in their own city. our mayoral roundtable sunday here on "up." but stick around for melissa harris perry. she's coming up next. have a great saturday and see you tomorrow. you wouldn't buy a car without taking it for a spin and it's...well...just a car. test-drive our full lineup only at your local john deere dealer. making a fist something we do to show resolve. to defend ourselves. to declare victory. so cvs health provides expert support and vital medicines. make a fist for me. at our infusion centers or in patients homes. we help them fight the good fight. cvs health, because health is everything. there's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world, our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them. and we know you love them too. ♪ ♪ i will take beauty into my own hands. olay regenerist. it regenerates surface cells. new skin is revealed in only 5 days. without drastic measures. stunningly youthful. award-winning skin. from the world's #1. olay your best beautiful life begins with a howl, we scream shout, shriek with joy. until, inhibition creeps in our world gets smaller quieter, but life should be loud. sing loud, play loud, love loud. dentures shouldn't keep you quiet, life should be ringing in your ears. live loud, polident. this morning my question are you going to watch the fight tonight? plus don't believe the hype. people protests are not the only engine of social change. and the nfl still sending mixed messages. but first, all eyes are still on baltimore. good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. yesterday six baltimore police officers were charged with crimes in the death of freddie gray.

Related Keywords

Fort Lee ,New Jersey ,United States ,New York , ,Philadelphia ,Pennsylvania ,Washington ,District Of Columbia ,London ,City Of ,United Kingdom ,Hoboken ,South Carolina ,Iowa ,Trenton ,North Korea ,Ohio ,Cambridge ,Cambridgeshire ,Newark ,Jersey ,Americans ,America ,British ,Serbian ,American ,Bridget Kelly ,Marco Rubio ,Brian Thompson ,David Wildstein ,Scott Walker ,Melissa Harris Perry ,Edgar Allen Poe ,Jeb Bush ,Marilyn Mosby ,Rodney King ,Paul Fishman ,Sonya Sohn ,Michael Fletcher ,Lois Lerner ,Chris Christie ,Kevin Clark ,Robert George ,Barack Obama ,Chuck Todd ,Pat Lynch ,John Crawford ,John Boehner ,Harry Smith ,Ron Allen ,Hillary Clinton ,