Transcripts For MSNBCW Up WSteve Kornacki 20140816

Potential 2016 president ial candidate is controversial to say the least. Well be breaking down whats in the indictment, whether it will hold up in court and what penalties perry might face if hes convicted in just a bit. But we start this morning with the events overnight in ferguson, missouri, where the calm that had prevailed since the state police took over was broken by more unrest and looting. Hundreds of people gathered for a sixth straight night to protest last weekends Police Shooting of an unarmed teenager named Michael Brown. Protesters marched in the rain to the site where brown was killed as well as to the store that brown is alleged to have robbed. One nbc producer on the ground last night said he witnessed a member of the crowd throwing either a rock or a bottle at the uniformed officers outside the Convenience Store in the standoff that followed cops are believed to have fired at least one tear gas canister. Missouri Highway Patrol captain ron johnson has confirmed there was looting overnight at the Convenience Store. Other protesters attempted to set fire to a pizza restaurant. It suffered minimal damage, no arrests were made and three officers suffered minor injuries. Msnbc. Coms amanda okuma is live. Yesterday coming off of theres night we were talking about what a sea change it was both in the tone of the police, the response from the crowds. Now this morning on the break of friday night the headlines are a little different. Can you take us through exactly what happened in ferguson overnight . Reporter exactly. Even throughout the day yesterday, the protesters were largely peaceful. People were gathering even as they heard from officials the official name of the Police Officer who was responsible for Michael Browns death. But as the night turned, as did the protests. Many of the protesters out there were it split into many different factions at a point. There were several protesters who came out later in the night. Now, remember, this is a friday night. The crowd was getting increasingly younger as the night went on. And then shortly before midnight was when Police Officers were said that they the objects were being thrown at officials and as rocks and potentially plastic bottles were being thrown. And that is when the Police Presence went from being a relatively small presence in the area to transitioning to we see the full riot gear. There were Armored Vehicles there. Now, when we were at the looting site, at the Convenience Store and liquor store where there were looters, its worth mentioning that there were a number of protesters who came out and made a human barricade in front of the doors. They were saying, man, youre better than this. You do not want to be doing this. And for a while they were very successful in making it so that more people could not go through the doors entrans. Well, amanda, im reading an article you have up on msnbc. Com with tremaine lee and you are quoting one resident i think it might have been a protester, describing when the people are peaceful, police throw the tear gas. When theres a riot, they just sit back. It made me wonder are people out there dissatisfied with the Police Response to what youre describing that played out last night . They theyre very dissatisfied with the response coming out especially when not only did we learn that the Police Officers name who is responsible for mike browns death but also in releasing the Surveillance Video of the alleged theft that they say that he was involved in. Many of the protesters here say that the numbers dont add up and theyre very fraught with anger over the timing of the release of the tape and they are dissatisfied with what theyre seeing on the ground. And so what was interesting about last night is that liquor store that was being looted just yards away, there were four, maybe five Armored Vehicles just standing there slowly. You could hear in the overcom the Police Officials were saying please disperse, please go home, this is for your own safety, please leave the area. Amanda sakuma live on the ground in ferguson, missouri, appreciate it, amanda. It was one week ago that unarmed 18yearold michal brown was shot dead by a Police Officer in ferguson shocking the people in the st. Louis suburb and people across the country as well. The next day the st. Louis county police chief said brown had assaulted the Police Officer while being stopped while walking down the street with a friend. In fact, one of those individuals at the time came into as the officer was exiting his police car allegedly pushed the Police Officer back into the car where he physically assaulted the Police Officer. It is our understanding at this point in the investigation that within the police car there was a struggle over the officers weapon. There was at least one shot fired within the car. After that, the officer went came back out of the car. He exited his vehicle, and there was a shooting that occurred where the officer, in fact, shot the subject. Later that evening a candlelight vigil for the slain teen turned violent. Local businesses were looted, vandalized and burned to the ground the first of several nights of unrest on the streets of ferguson. Tensions rose as Community Members demanded transparency in browns death. Why was he killed. What was the name of the Police Officer who killed him. By wednesday the city of ferguson called for the growing protest to be held during the day time. As night fell that night police in riot gear launched tear gas canisters and shot rubber bullets to disperse the crowd and they threw tear gas at an al jazeera American News crew and pointing their cameras to the ground. A reporter from the Washington Post and one from the Huffington Post both detained in mcdonalds where they were working. Lets go. Im working on it. Stop videotaping. Lets grab our stuff and go. Hurry up, lets go. Lease dont make me go. Lets go. You see me working . Please do not tell me not to use time to go. Lets go. Were down to about 45 seconds. Lets go as those images were broadcast around the country and as the stories made their way around the world president obama weighed in from his vacation in Marthas Vineyard the next day. When Something Like this that. S the local authorities including the police have a responsibility to be open and transparent about how they are investigating that death and how they are protecting the people in their communities. There is never an excuse for violence against police or for those who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism or looting. Theres also no excuse for police to use Excessive Force against peaceful protests or to throw protesters in jail for lawfully exercising their First Amendment rights and here in the United States of America Police should not be bullying or arresting journalists who are just trying to do their jobs. And president obama also spoke with missouri governor jay nixon who later in the day announced that the town security would be handed over to missouri Highway Patrol which is headed up by ferguson native named captain ron johnson and on thursday evening johnson and his officers marched with the protesters. There was not a single arrest that night, peaceful protests sprung up around the country calling for agess on the circumstances surrounding browns killing. On friday Morning Police finally released the name of the officer that shot Michael Brown, darren wilson, a sixyear veteran of the force, police did not release a picture of officer wilson they also withheld the two incident reports on the shooting what they did release was an incident report on a robbery that happened 16 minutes before browns shooting saying brown was the prime suspect in that robbery. Police also releemsed a Surveillance Video and stills from the store with what police say is Michael Brown stealing cigars from the Convenience Store and pushing the clerk when tried to stop him. Later in the day the Ferguson Police chief clarified that they did not know if the robbery had any connection to the deadly confrontation with brown. The officer involved in the shooting, was he aware of the robbery call . I dont know. I dont know what came out in his interview. I know his initial contact was not related to the robbery. At this point why did he stop Michael Brown . Because they were walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic. That was it. After that, however, the police chief did try to clarify. He then changed his story again and seemed to say that the officer had seen cigars in the hands of Michael Brown and made the connection on the scene. Anyway, last night in ferguson we had all the scenes that we just mentioned that included looting and firing at least one canister of tear gas. Joining me is retired atf special agent james cavanaugh, jim, i want to start with the confusion yesterday that resulted from the police giving releasing this video in the morning and the clear implication when they released that video was that theres some connection here and then the police chief comes out and says, no, theres no connection. The officer stopped him essentially for jaywalking and after that press conference the police chief seems to clarify again and seems to say, actual hill, the officer stopped him and saw cigars in his hand and then made the connection. Based on what weve seen, based on the story the police have told now, i guess it raises the single question would the tape even be admissible in court . Probably not. It matters not what michael im sorry, Michael Brown did at the Convenience Store. It doesnt matter if hed just been anointed a soint aint or ba rised every home in the city it matters not because the conversation with the officer stands on the facts right there whether the shooting is justified or unjustified. And from one of the witnesss statement dorian Michael Browns friend, you know, the officer told him to get on the sidewalk and kurls cursed at him so, you those facts seem consistent that the officer said something to him, probably something ugly to him, to get on the sidewalk and thats where the interaction started so the cigar theft, the strongarmed robbery, which that is a strongarmed robbery and dorian, mike at brochael brown hes made a statement to the fbi that michael took the cigars, i dont think its in dispute that that occurred at the store and i dont think it means anything that this is an unjustified shooting by the officer. The other question and maybe you can shed some light on it from the Law Enforcement stand point, the justification from the police stand pont of not releasing the incident reports involving the shooting of Michael Brown, they put out the video and the stills and the incident report from the Convenience Store, everybody is saying, what about shooting that took place . Whats the justification for not releasing that at this point . The justification for that in the minds of the investigators and prosecutors is its still an ongoing investigation. But the problem with that is what should have already happened and what should happen quickly which im sorry to say is not happening is warrant should be issued for the officer for the shooting whether thats a state, murder, manslaughter charge or a federal civil rights violation under color of law or denying someone their civil rights, that should have already happened. Look, were on a search here for something thats not going to change the event. While from times square to oakland were having demonstrations and police mobilized and still having looters and molotov cocktails on a small scale last night in ferguson, its less than 1 of 1 of the people of ferguson doing that but it still occurred on a minor level. Last night there was small inls dent and the police were much more restraneerestrained but th will continue until justice begins and the justice begins when the charge is preferred. There are witnesses weve seen on nbc all the anchors have interviewed, lawrnence odonnel interviewed and chris hayes interviewed them, three eye wjswjs witnesses. Could there be more . Maybe. Theres not less than three. We know who had the firearm. We have the autopsy. We have the bullets. You know, we have the circumstances from the police. This is not a mystery. This is not a mystery. No, i take your point. Theres strong reason to move forward. Anyway, my thanks to Law Enforcement analyst james cavanaugh. I want to turn to former ncaa. You have eyewitness testimony in the public aregion na thats emerged and you have the circumstances that are known, the incident report that is not out there. When you look at the response from the police and the conflicting stories from the police yesterday, are you confident as you look forward to these investigations that are taking place right now one by the county police and one by the fbi are you confident that this is going to get satisfactory answers . No. You know, look, i think we will find ourselves at some point in a conversation about actually how the cops in this town treat this town. I mean, the chief folks havent asked the question whether this chief should be fired yet. They will soon be asking it because every time he gets in front of a mike, he seems to actually provoke this community. Across the country on cop cars it says that they are there to respect and protect. Well, you cant protect unless had you respect. And the fact and the fact that weve seen him come out with these stories that conflict, you know, not naming the officer for days, provoking, provoking, provoking and naming the officer and in the same breath trying to indict the victims character, its a you know, we need the chief to actually calm things down not ramp things up. And if that is who is actually leading the cops, then weve got to be very worried about about ben, i wonder, what do you think the reason was or the motive was for releasing the video yesterday . Because we got conflicting accounts from the police. Was it to deflect attention from the officer . It seems like basic deflection and, you know, its the type of thing that weve seen again. And, you know, its and its very frustrating. Because, you know, this should be fairly straightforward. An officer killed an unarmed citizen. There should be not just an investigation. That officer should be taken into custody. He should be treated like a suspect in a murder. Until his name is cleared or he is convicted. But theyre sort of, you know, treating him as if, you know, sort of the presumption is that nothing was wrong here is ins e insane. I mean, yes, people are having the talk across the country, youre seeing, you know knowknow, iha know, ihadthetalk. We shouldnt have to have the talk. Young people steal things from Convenience Stores all the time. They dont they shouldnt have to worry all the time about crossing the street and getting shot and one in this case really has nothing to do with the other. The only issue here is that a young man was crossing the street, came in contact with an officer, and was dead a few moments later from that officers bullet. And the fact that the chief cant get his mind wrapped around that is deeply concerning. What in terms of having confidence in where these investigations are going because we say theres two different investigations taking place right now, what is the most important thing that can happen right now to give you confidence that this is moving in the right direction . Right now they need to actually focus on putting out a warrant for this officer and stop provoking the community each day. You know, captain johnson needs to be fully in control. This chief, you know, frankly should be sent on leave. He is actually endangering more people than he is protecting at this point. And weve got to get focus on the on the issue at the center of all of this, which is that a young man was killed essentially for crossing the street. And that and the fact that the chief keeps trying to deflect right. And not deal with that is extremely disturbing. They need to take him off the mike and frankly put him out of his job for a few days, you know, set him off to the side, send him on some r r and let somebody that can keep the people safe be put in charge. Ben jealous, former ncaa president , calling for the chief of police out there in ferguson to take a few days off at least. All the details and whats likely to happen next in the felony case against Texas Governor rick perry. Its about getting to the finish line. In life, its how you get there that matters most. Its important to know the difference. Like when i found out i had a blood clot in my leg. My doctor said that it could travel to my lungs and become an even bigger problem. And that i had to take action. So he talked to me about xarelto®. [ male announcer ] xarelto® is the first oral prescription blood thinner proven to treat and help prevent dvt and pe that doesnt require regular blood monitoring or changes to your diet. 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Before starting xarelto®, tell your doctor about any conditions such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. Xarelto® is proven to reduce the risk of dvt and pe. With xarelto® there is no regular blood monitoring and no known dietary restrictions. Treatment with xarelto® was the right move for me. [ male announcer ] ask your doctor about xarelto® today. For more information including savings options, download the xarelto® Patient Center app, call 1888xarelto, or visit teamxarelto. Com. All right. Turning now to texas where republican governor rick perry has now been indicted for abusive power and coercion of a public servant. The indictment lists two felony counts for making good on a veto threat to deny more than 7 million in funding for public corruption prosecutors in the most democratically leaning county in texas. Heres what happened. Last year perry threatened to use his line item veto power to eliminate funding for the district tornl of Travis County where austin is, state government. If the d. A. Didnt resign from her job and that d. A. A woman named rosemary lindbergh had been sentenced for driving while intoxicated. Lindbergh relisisted calls for r resignation and perry said she was unfit to hold her office one of perrys lawyers said the governor had a right to issue the veto as he saw fit. The statement is, quote, this clearly represents political abuse of the court system and there is no legal basis in this decision. Todays action which violates the separation of powers outlined in the Texas Constitution is nothing more than an effort to weaken the Constitutional Authority granted to the office of Texas Governor and sets a dangerous precedent by allowing a grand jury to punish the exercise of a lawful and Constitutional Authority afforded to the Texas Governor. Just two months ago nbcs casey hunt asked governor perry about the investigation being pursued against him. You are facing a probe in to what happened with the office of Public Integrity in Travis County. Did you or anyone on your staff commit a crime when that occurred . No. We ive been the governor for coming on 14 years, 7 legislative sessions and i know the constitution and the duties of the governor. And vetoing a line item is certainly within the rights and the law and the constitution of the state of texas. Very confident that vetoing a line item for whatever reason is an appropriate thing for the governor to do. And do you regret making that veto happen . Oh, not at all. I considered that 7 million was going to an agency that was illrun. All right. For more on these developments i want to Investigative Reporter from the Austin American statesman. I guess well start in laymans terms to make clear to everybody exactly what this indictment is all about. This is the District Attorney from Travis County. She gets dui and her blood alcohol level is three times the legal limit. The video comes out of her arrest. I guess shes belligerent and hostile and 45 days in jail this and rick perry said she ought to resign. She doesnt. He vetoes the funding for her office. So, wheres the crime here . Well, the crime according to prosecutors and according to this grand jury lies with the fact that the governor issued this threat and then vetoed that money. Yes, according to them it is legal for him to issue that veto, but you cant tie that veto to a threat according to the prosecutor and the grand jury. Is the crime, then its publicly saying these things are linked in my mind, the funding for your office and your continued service in this office. If he had kept that to himself and vetoed it, theres no crime . Well, my understanding is had he just done the veto, that would have been one thing. That he is indeed constitutio l constitutionally able to veto anything in the state budget but it was the linking of those two things or had he just issued a threat or not a threat but a call for rosemary lindbergh to resign and then not, you know, linked that to the veto, well, that could have left him on solid ground. But its the combining of those two actions. What is the reaction so far . This happened pretty late last night, what is the reaction in texas to this . I have to tell you, this has been a real bombshell. People knew that this grand jury was meeting, they had had been convened back in april. A special prosecutor had been appointed months before. But of many, many legal people i had talked to, defense attorneys, prosecutors, former defense attorneys, former prosecutors, i think the number of people who actually thought a grand jury would bring a criminal indictment against the governor was really, really small. So then to have this happen last night was a real surprise and i think the surprise not only is that there are criminal charges but theyre not just misdemeanors. These are two very serious felonies. Yeah, right, exactly. So if he is convicted, what is he facing here . For the most serious felony the punishment range is up to 99 years. Wow. Theyre not messing around. All right, my thanks to tony plessky. All over the story. Here to discuss the charges against perry, Evan Mcmorris santoro from buzz feed and joy reid host here at msnbc. This caught me by surprise. I did a thing on the show a while back and i didnt think it would lead to a criminal indictment let alone one that brings 99 years in prison. Ive got to say, im looking at this. I dont think theres much of a legal case here. Im really surprised this has been brought. Democrat, republican, to me it doesnt matter. Its a line item veto. A lot of governors have this authority and they get to exercise it and if you have a problem with it the punishment should come legislatively. This is something that should be handled by a legislative branch and impeachment is the most severe punishment that you can bring. I dont think a line item veto the Judicial Branch should be getting involved. It was shocking i agree you when i saw it come across the twitter feed, i said, what, i thought it was the onion tweeting it out. The Texas Governorship is a weak one, one of the few sort of independent powers that the Texas Governor has hes even weak relative to the Lieutenant Governor in texas as part of kind of the post civil warl reconstruction kind of creation of that state and imposed on it by the union. You have one of the few powers the governor can exercise independently is the line item veto but its the linkage of that veto to basically a demand that another elected official step down, thats the problem. Tony, the thing that i have trouble putting my mind there if he doesnt articulate that, he has that power, if she wont resign, if she wont take my hint, im going to veto. Theres no crime. Now they are saying there might be a crime. Just think you have one public official saying youre not doing your job, you should step down and im going to pressure you to do that. And that is what is discussed. I know were all surprised but in the meantime, though, the context to this is also its not only democrats that have been pursuing these ethics charges against texas, tom delay, Kay Bailey Hutchison but as maybe the viewers dont know theres a whole Democratic Movement in texas called battleground texas where some veterans of the Obama Administration are down there doing what they call a people turning the state blue. Metricdriven campaign. Theyre already all over this so, yes, it does seem to me legally it would be perhaps hard to convict though i could see the rationale for the indictment, but in the meantime this is going to give an organizing group stuff to organize to. I think this whole thing is just completely fraught with politics. Theres very little that democrats control in texas in the government. I mean, perry said it in the interview with casey hunt that hes been governor for 14 years. I mean, this whole thing, this whole government is rick perrys creation. And now theyre surprised . So you have this sort of weird way the law works down there. The d. A. For austin, texas, obviously not the most conservative part of texas has the power to investigate the government for corruption and whatever. So you have sort of cases that theyre bringing against tom delay, for example, that sort of caused a lot of issues and caused a lot of anger among republicans and then you have this d. A. Down there who i mean, you showed the video and you showed the mug shot, thats not a great thing for anyone to have on their political record. And then you have, you know, an ability of republicans to move in and try to seize some control of this agency that they dont like. Meanwhile, democrats have this this indictment to point to rick perry, you know, change his ethics board to stop it from investigating his government. But also, you know, we saw some calls for him to resign last night. We saw, you know, democrats jumping all over this from the National Democrats who want to talk about his 2016 prospects and now hes Chris Christie and now hes whatever and local democrats are saying that he should resign. I think the hard thing about this whole issue that there is the legal issues. And i agree with you that legally i think well sort of see this work out and maybe not be as tough on perry as it looked like but the politic its are really rough here and its rough for both sides in a way. Perry has questions to answer why are you defunding an agency that is questioning Cancer Research funding that youre alleging at the same time i wonder how the poll were so used to, you know, like the headline governor indicted shouldnt kill anybodys political career. Generally thats true. But i wonder in this case in a court of public but in the court of Public Opinion if its, like, look, you know, shes three times over the legal limit. Shes running the Public Integrity unit of the state and shes on tape trying to pull rank with the people that arrest her. Yeah, im going to use my power as governor to try to get her to resign, i think thats a pretty easy thing to sell publicly. He could have done it the right way use the bully pulpit to pressure her to resign and whatever it is in texas and how you get rid of somebody who is not doing a public duty, though, in most parts of the country they call that an election. I get that. But the point if you read this indiamet seems to be saying if im getting it right it seems to be saying if he kept this all in his head and he came up with some trumpedup reason for defunding the agency is totally fine. Its that he steps forward and this is what he said. Blagojevich is sitting in prison for shooting off his mouth. The bad things about trial is discovery. Its never a good look to be the person on the other end of the indictment because discovery is deadly usually. Im not saying its a plus for rick perry. Im just wondering how big it is. Anyway criticism over the speed of the response by officials in missouri in particular governor jay nixon, that angle of the ferguson story when we return. yawn ding toaster strudel more fruit in the filling, ya . Mmm ya warm, flaky, gooey, toaster strudel now, with more fruit hey, i heard you guys can help me with frog protection . Sure, we help with fraud protection. If there are unauthorized purchases on your discover card, youre never held responsible. You are saying frog protection . Fraud. Frog. Fraud. I think were on the same page. At discover, we treat you like youd treat you. Fraud protection. Get it at discover. Com [guy] i know what youre youre thinking beneful. [announcer]beneful has wholesome grains,real beef,even accents of spinach,carrots and peas. [guy] you love it so much. Yes you do. But its good for you, too. [announcer] healthful. Flavorful. Beneful. From purina. Five days, five days, thats how long it took missouri governor jay nixon to come to ferguson after Michael Brown was shot. One Missouri State senator who represents part of ferguson had very harsh words for the governor now that the worlds eyes are on missouri, on st. Louis, on the Senate District that i represent, the governor is now here. But hes not really at ground zero. He has never come to ground zero. Right now, in fact, hes in a different municipality and hes speaking but he has not been to ground zero and for that i call him a coward. Chris king of the st. Louis american an influential black newspaper in that city told politico that nixons political deafness is staggering. He came, he came late. I think he did almost everything wrong. The latest chapter in nixons rough relationship with the Africanamerican Community in st. Louis when he was missouris attorney general more than a decade ago he led an effort to end the citys Desegregation Program in which after American American students were bused to predominantly white areas in st. Louis county. One naacp official called him the reincarnation of former alabama governor george wallace. Nixon portrays himself as a moderate democrat. And the past hes stoked chatter that he might run for president some day. He also won 92 of the black vote when he was reelected in 2012 the same year that barack obama lost missouris president ial vote to mitt romney. The difference is that nixon ran much stronger than obama in the more conservative, heavily white parts of the state. Joining me to discuss Governor Nixon now is liz brown an attorney and columnist for the st. Louis american and dave helling columnist with the kansas city star. Liz, let me start with you. The story was that jay nixon wouldnt go to ferguson at all. He then showed up and been much more visible the last few days. What do you make now a week in to this, what do you make in totality of jay nixons response . I think that his response is going to be remembered as a delayed, inattentive response. Think of the photoop that is running through peoples mind, what he chose not to go to, what he was planning to go to, was the missouri fair to have corn dogs and fried ice cream. And so thats what he was planning on doing and then he decided to stop doing that. How is that even on your agenda . How were you even planning to go to the state fair . Why do you think he was so hesitant to go . I think i think his hesitance is part of the problem here. The problem is, is that we have issues of race that are hitting, that are confronting this community for generations and we have politicians that run from a discussion of that or politicians that put wood on the fire of it or politicians that ignore it. So, i mean, in fairness to Governor Nixon, he was its habit so, you know, hes trying to break a habit of inattentiveness. Dave, maybe you could talk to us about maybe sort of the statewide politics of missouri, we know theres st. Louis in the east and kansas city in the west and, you know, a lot of i remember the Obama Hillary clinton map from 2008 in the primary, 114 counties in missouri. Obama won the state and he won only five counties. Hillary clinton won 109 counties, a lot of them heavily white. Is that the politically speaking is that the jay nixon calculus when hes confronted with Something Like ferguson hes thinking of the more heavily white areas and more conservative areas and doesnt want to risk alienating them . In part. I dont want to attribute any real sinister motives. I dont think jay nixon sat in a room and said, gee, i cant go to ferguson because white people will be upset in missouri. But as liz subjects, jay nixon has a real habit of triangulating the state between the rural interests and the urban interests and while that helps politically, he won overwhelmingly in his reelection campaign, when something goes wrong, as it did in ferguson, hes standing alone. He doesnt really have anyone in his inner circle telling him, hey, look, this is going to look bad if you dont go to ferguson and his natural instinct isnt to respond to a situation like that. So, that leads to a delay. That leads to criticism. And then, frankly, he has no good will to fall back on, no reservoir of support in the Africanamerican Community. And you see the reaction that you saw in ferguson this week. And, dave, what are so, hes in his second term as governor right now. I dont believe he can run for reelection. Thats correct. Long term, what is jay nixon looking to do . I said in the open he has i remember being at the convention in 2012 there were people in his orbit trying to put out the word that he was interested in running for president. Is that something hes still thinking about . No. Yes, sometimes hell say yes. Sometimes no. Hes very coy about that. Hes publicly endorsed Hillary Clinton in 2016. The consensus is that hes seeking some sort of cabinet post, maybe torattorney general a democratic administration. That seems much more problematic now. He did make a trip to iowa a couple of weeks ago and that raised some eyebrows. I dont think hes given up on future ambitions for higher office. This incident in ferguson, though, will be a very, very difficult thing to explain and has really set back any ambit n ambitions he might have for, say, a president ial run for a place on the ticket in 2016 or even beyond. I think if somebody has a National Political future on this it might be ron johnson. Could be. Could be. Thanks to elizabeth brown, appreciate you both for joining me. A lot more to discuss with the biggest story of the morning and the week. Take 4 advil in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. Peanuts peanuts crowd cheers so ally bank really has no hidden fethats right. Accounts . Its just that im worried about you know hidden things. Ok, whys that . No hidden fees, from the bank where no branches equals great rates. Fancy feast broths. Theyre irresistabowl. Completely unbelievabowl. Totally delectabowl. Real silky smooth or creamy broths. Everything shes been waiting for. Carefully crafted with real seafood, real veggies, and never any byproducts or fillers. Wow being a cat just got more enjoyabowl. Fancy feast broths. Wow served daily. Dont wait for awesome. Totinos pizza rolls. Gets you there in just 60 seconds. Virtually all your important legal matters in just minutes. Now its quicker and easier for you to start your business, protect your family, and launch your dreams. At legalzoom. Com we put the law on your side. All right. Were back with Evan Mcmorris san tora and lynn sweet and joy reid. The story of the week obviously is ferguson. We thought we would talk about where we are right now. You know, we have the obviously the news overnight. We have the state highway the state Police Coming in and president obama weighing in this week. Joy, looking at this just, you know, from the weeks perspective right now, just curious what your thoughts are . How many mistakes, missteps and wrong turns can you see out of one police force two Police Forces if you count the Ferguson Police and the st. Louis county police and the governor who i think best advise Hillary Clinton not to put him in the cabinet, because hes been an disaster. With very few exceptions Claire Mccaskill was out there and did a pretty good job but youve seen a complete breakdown in what appears to be authority other than ron johnson who has come in now and been sort of a star its just been a complete breakdown and i think the police made a colossal mistake by responding to very broad media requests for those police reports, those incident reports about the shooting by giving us different incident reports that were about a robbery that they now admit is not even related to the shooting. And saying its because because the media asked for it when the media clearly didnt. We were asking for media reports, we were, im sure you guys were, our producers were calling and asking. The ones we wanted were the ones about the shooting and i think the attempt to protect the officer at every turn whether its the city police or county police, it does appear everything that theyve done has been about protecting the officer and not about providing the public with information its entitled to under Public Disclosure laws. If i may pull up the scope a bit, just think a few, what, weeks, months ago, we were celebrating the anniversary of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and then you have this kind of racially explosive situation in missouri, so, i mean, thats one big injection once again of where do we stand on civil rights in the nation. Once again, this has dragged president obama into a discussion of civil rights which is not anything he had you know, he has he dips in, he dips out. The white house started this effort but, you know, using becoming the m. A. N. Program and trying to deal with racerelated issues but now the context is shifting. Its polarizing and one more quick thing. Yeah. It has brought a whole new subject into the discussion which is the militarization of right. Local Police Forces. Its an issue. A lot of us werent really covering or aware of, the amount of surplus pentagon equipment that is going to Police Forces, and that is actually being highlighted in a very thoughtful way by of all people senator rand paul. Thats right. Its jumbling party lines. President obamas role this week in speaking out, i wonder what you made of the remarks he made. Some people are saying you compare it to lynn, i think you were the one that asked the question in 2009. July 2009. About the Cambridge Police and he was a lot maybe less reserved what he said in 2009 than what he said this week. Yeah. Underplayed story in this whole thing is how engaged the administration is kind of is in this although obama gave a statement that was fairly tepid and got some criticism and eric holder orn holder on the other hand, and the justice department, there are six agencies on the ground in ferguson right now including the fbi doing its own investigation in to the death. Eric holder spoke about militarization, he spoke about Police Tactics in his statement, eric holder has been talking about, you know, the civil rights issues and all this stuff that goes on with that. Its sort of the weird double track that we see with the Obama Administration quite often that obama goes out there because when he sort of said some stuff that has been more strong against police, i think back to the skipgate situation and trayvon martin, that tends to cause a big kerfuffle for the white house but if eric holder says tough stuff about the police it doesnt cause a problem. Obama does his statement and eric holder on the same day and on the same track is a very strong statement against Police Militarization and Police Tactics down there and concerned about everything. We talk about the bully pulpit of the presidency all the time and you also have the attorney general. Appreciate you all joining us this morning. To there and back again with president obama. Well explain what that means right after this. So factors like diet can negatively impact good bacteria . Even if youre healthy and active. Phillips Digestive Health support is a duoprobiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. Im doubly impressed phillips Digestive Health. A daily probiotic. Theyre about 10 times softer and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. Polident kills 99. 99 of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. Thats why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. 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Where you can explore super destinations and do everything under the sun. Twelve brands. More hotels than anyone else in the world. For a chance to win one million dollars, visit wyndhamrewards. Com no president ever really gets to go on vacation. Even when they are on vacation. With the ferguson shooting and the crisis in iraq, thats been especially true for president obamas currents stay on Marthas Vineyard. Kristin welker joins us live to tell us why, good morning, kristin. Reporter hey, good morning, steve. The official line from the white house is that the president s going to return home on sunday evening. Hes going to have some meetings on monday and tuesday with his top advisor, chief of staff, dennis mcdunna. Hell meet with Vice President joe biden. The white house wont tell us what the nature of the meetings is going to be, and its important that they were scheduled prior to this busy week. So theres a lot of questions sort of surrounding what specifically does that mean. We know that the president is going to make some type of announcement on immigration. Announcing an executive action on immigration at the end of the summer. So it is possible that the discussions will include that. White house officials saying that there wont be any major news unveiled though while the president is home for those short two days. Hes going to be back here on Marthas Vineyard tuesday evening, steve, back to you. Appreciate that. And much more ahead this morning including the calls to demilitary rise the police, latest air strikes in iraq and whether this will be a limited operation afterall, stay with us. Sics. A body at rest tends to stay at rest. While a body in motion tends to stay in motion. Staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. But if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. Prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. 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There was looting overnight at the Convenience Store. Other protesters attempted to set fire to a pizza restaurant. Restaurant suffered minimal damage. No arrests were made. Three officers suffered minor injuries. Nbcs mark potter joins us live from ferguson right now. What can you tell us about what we know about what happened and whats on tap for today. Reporter hi steve, what i can tell you first is that the rains have come. And its calm this morning. And nice and quiet down in the protest zone. The only people there now are citizens who are out cleaning up some of the debris. Last night it was a much different situation. Hundreds of people were out there seeking justice in the Michael Brown case. Very loud, passionate, but peaceful trying to get their message out. Almost was festive up until about midnight. Then the tone began to change. Some young people came in and the police say that some rocks were thrown, a bottle was thrown, three officers were injured. Police in Tactical Gear did move in briefly to confront the crowd, but then backed off. The report is some tear gas was fired. After they backed off, the protesters seemed to move out. The looters came in and they hit the ferguson marktd and liquor store. They were photographed taking bottles of liquor out of there. Then the protesters got involved to stop them to prevent them from looting and telling them they were undercutting their message. That this was a protest, a legitimate protest. And they were hurting their message. Now captain Ronald Johnson from the Highway Patrol in charge of security out here said that, that when the protesters moved out, the looters did go in. And were going to hear from him later today as to hopefully from him as to the assessment of whether the police should have moved in a little quicker or how they handled this. I can tell you that local radio stations are filled with people this morning decrying the actions of the looters saying that they really did hurt when they were trying to do. They were trying to assemble peacefully and the scene that everybody is showing now is the looters and theyre very upset. I think to clear this up for people. Were talking about two separate groups of people here. This is not protesters, demonstrators who turned to looting, these are protesters and demonstrators who were peaceful, totally flin, then a separate group moved in, separate from them . Reporter thats what it appears. The protesters are very, very upset. They have a legitimate message theyre trying to get out. They were concerned, they were doing what they were allowed to do by the police. Everything was peaceful until about midnight. Then another crowd came in. It was, and the tone changed. And thats what everybody on the radio is talking about today. They really wish that had not happened. Thanks to nbcs mark potter live on the ground. Appreciate that. After a week of clashes between police and protesters, and one particularly violent evening. Officers in riot gear filled tear gas and rubber bullets to disperse the crowd. The Highway Patrol is now in control. That led to a dramatic change in how the protest unfolded. The leader marched with the protesters on thursday instead of standing off against them. And last night as weve reported was another tense night in ferguson. It did include looting and the firing of at least one canister of tear gas. One of the persistent questions remains. How is it that a Police Department of 53 officers in a sleepy, st. Louis suburb of about 20,000 people even has the heavy equipment that it appears that it has . To make it look like sometimes even a paramilitary force. It turns out the officers were not just one police force, but many, they were drawn from different communities in st. Louis county. And the assault riffle rifles, ammunition, gas masks and more they were carried were provided and attended not as a means of crowd control, but to fend off against a possible terrorist attack. Ever since the september 11th attacks for more than a decade, the federal government has paid to give local Police Forces body armor, tanks, and military gear. New york times pointed out theres not a debate whether this should happen at all. It argued who deserved the most money to make this happen. Thursday the police chief pushed back against the idea that his department was a paramilitary force. The whole pictures being painted a little bit sideways from whats really happening. And its not military, its tactical operations. Its s. W. A. T. Teams. Thats whos out there. Police, were doing this in blue. Nevertheless, from a political standpoint, whats unfolding in ferguson is raising questions. Missouri senator Claire Mccaskill, a democrat, asked authorities to demilitarize the situation. She said that quote, this kind of response by the police has become the problem instead of the solution. President obama asked attorney general eric holder to begin an investigation of Michael Browns death and holder himself said he was quote deeply concerned the deployment of military equipment sends a conflicting message. Ted cruz was critical as well. As was rand paul who wrote in a Time Magazine op ed that quote washington insent vised the Police Precincts by using federal dollars to help governments build what are essentially small armies. Joining me now is hank johnson from georgia whos working on legislation to demilitarize the police. So congressman, thanks for taking minutes this morning. Lets start at the root of this because as we say in the intro, i think this is sort of been a moment of revelation for a the love people in the country. Looking at the scenes out of ferguson and saying wow, i cant believe the police, this is what the police have become. This is not what i imagined. I didnt know this was happening, and now were finding out that this is a relationship to 9 11, to money thats been spent in the last ten, 12 years. I guess the root question is how did this happen in the first place . Well, it stems from the failed war on drugs that this country has been engaged in, both in our streets and also in the streets of other nations south of the border. For at least the last two decades. And that war is not working, one of the offshoots of that war is the militarization of the Police Departments across the country. And it was heightened by the 9 11 incident. And so its just a program now, its called the 1033 program by the pentagon. Its a pentagon program. Its just now gotten out of hand. I think we have seen from looking at the incident in ferguson, how this equipment, how this military grade equipment can actually make things worse in a community as opposed to be conducive towards community policing. Which policing is all about. Do you, when you look at the range of equipment that military equipment that has made its way into the hand of Police Departments across the country, do you see some of that equipment . Are there things that the Police Forces have now because of the military that are useful and that are necessary . Yes. There are many items that are procured by local Law Enforcement agencies districtly from directly from the department of defense that are useful in fighting crime. And my legislation does not seek to get it back. But it seeks to put limitations and restrictions on the types of property that can be supplied to local Law Enforcement agencies. What are those restrictions . What do you not want getting into the hands of Police Forces . We dont want automatic weapons, we dont want weapons that are higher than 50 calibers. We dont want tanks. We dont want armored personnel care yers and humvees. We dont want silencers for police weapons. We dont want stun grenades. Theyve been misused many times by many departments in the past. And anything that the military would actually use offensively in a war typesetting. And so the legislation is very specific about the types of property, and i think what weve seen in ferguson is a demonstration of why we need to pass this legislation. We dont know, once that property is transferred to the local Police Agencies, we dont, we dont have any restrictions on what that department can do with the property. So conceivably, property could make its way directly from the pentagon, from a war zone, through the pentagon, to a local Law Enforcement agency based on a one page application. And it can be a tank or an armed drone, and it can be transferred directly to the Law Enforcement agency, and then the agency after a period of time may decide that they want to just sell the property at public auction. And then anyone would be able to get their hand on that kind of equipment. And so its not good for the safety, longterm safety of our nation and certainly Police Departments patrolling in a armored personnel carrier down the streets of a city or a town or even on a College Campus is just unnecessary. Well, well keep an eye on your legislation, and its interesting too to see that the sort of traditional partisan lines may be blurring on the issue of the militarization of the police. My thanks to congressman hank john of georgia for joining us this morning, i appreciate that. I want to turn to steve rooils, hes written about police misconduct. Also from ferguson, missouri, and he joins us right now. So, steve, i want to talk to you from your perspective there in ferguson, and in dealing with these issues involving the police. And their use of force. Tell us a little bit about your experiences in ferguson. Because obviously the rest of the country started paying attention to this in the last week, but it looks like there are issues here between the police and the community that goes back further than that. How much further and what are the roots of the problem there . Well thanks very much, steve. I grew up in ferguson. And went to high school there. Lived there most of my adult life. And to be honest with you, the problems that were seeing now are relatively recent phenomenon, in my experience. When i was growing up, there was not really an consciousness of the race of the people we moved with. The community was racially mixed, my high school was racially mixed, and even after i moved back after law school, its a very progressive community, and its really very unfortunate that the view of ferguson that the world is seeing is not at all like my experience. Was there a, was there a tipping point, youre saying is it a recent thing. What would you attribute it to . The sort of chill in relations between the community and the police . I dont know what to attribute it to exactly. But i can tell you that only in the last four or five years have i noticed an increase in complaints about the Ferguson Police. And the complaints that ive received are of a number and of a kind that ive also received about other municipalities that are having challenges in race relations. And i, you know, there could be a number of different causes, the changes in the community, change in the orientation of the Police Department and its officers, or both. But, it is a relatively recent phenomenon, in my experience. Ferguson has always been a racially mixed area. And i dont think the racial composition of the community has changed in any significant way in the last few years. So we were talking about militarization of the Police Department. And i would say this, the closer, the more the Police Officers identify with the military, the greater the risk to the Civil Liberties of the community they serve. Police officers, police, a civilian community, the military fights without the same rules and without the constitution limitations that civilian police have. And so, it may be an example of the tail wagging the dog when you give Police Agencies the tools of war, one wonders whether that has the effect of causing Police Officers to identify more with a military mindset. Right. All right, my thanks to attorney stephen riles. Appreciate that. Up next, just how limited will this new operation in iraq be . Well talk to two members of congress about that straight ahead. I know what youre thinking. Youre thinking beneful. [announcer]and why wouldnt he be . Beneful has wholesome grains,real beef,even accents of spinach,carrots and peas. It has carbohydrates for energy and protein for those serious muscles. 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Thats when america stepped in, dropping bombs on isis, delivering food and water to the yazidis. Because the scale and professionalism of our military and the generosity of our people, we broke the seenl of mount sinjar. We helped people reach safety and helped save many innocent lives. The crisis is not over yet. While the humanitarian mission is complete, the military operation to stop isis goes on. We will continue air strikes to protect our people and facilities in iraq. We have increased the delivery of military assistance to iraqi and Kurdish Forces. A continued military operation in iraq. One of the administration has gone to Great Lengths to assure americans will be limited in scope nearly three years after combat troops left. One where the president campaigned we would leave for good. President confirmed that a team landed on the mountain to inspect the operation. This came after Deputy National security advisor ben rhodes left wiggle room for potential boots on the ground. I think the principle holds that were not putting Ground Forces into combat role in iraq, were using u. S. Military person tole assess what the best way is to bring people to safety and what the best way is to provide them with humanitarian assistance. But again, always, force protection is a mission for u. S. Personnel wherever they are. Iraq is still a dangerous place. This week iraqs ip embattled Prime Minister agreed to step down caving into international and domestic pressure after struggling to hold on. Nouri al medical i cans agenda is what al yen natoed him. Question now is whether the formation of a new government can unite the country and stem the growing insurgency. Well here at home, question now is just how limited the president s military oermperati can be. Especially the threat that some in the administration seem to be suggesting isis could represent. Here to help us figure it out, we have republican congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania. Joining us in new york, democratic congressman jerry nader will from new york. So congressman, let me start with you. Theres couple different ways of looking at this, i think everybodys instinct when the president talking about taking action in iraq is to get nervous and we dont want to the go back there, and thats understandable. At the same time, when you hear some of the comments from the people in the administration about what isis is and represents, it does raise the question to me of if its this big of a threat, why arent we doing more . I think you have to analyze what the threat is and what the purpose of any American Action is. I think we have two legitimate causes of action. One is to stop genocide such as the murder that would have occurred of the yazidis had we not stepped in. We should stop genocide, never again means anything, it should mean that. Weve done that. The second thing is the military threat that isis poses, not to the government in iraq, but to the United States. And here, i think that a lot of the discussion misses the mark isis does pose a major threat to us, but the threat is not theyre going to conquer baghdad and go on from there to new york. The threat is that people from the United States, from western europe go through there, are radicalized before they go there, learn combat techniques and come back here to create murder mayhem terrorism. Thats the threat here. That, the answer so that is not dependent on how well isis does militarily. That doesnt affect that threat, what affects that threat and what we have to be concentrating on is keeping an eye on people who go to join isis, stopping them at the border coming back and Proper Police work. This was a problem of domestic, potential domestic terrorism, and you have to concentrate on those people. Now, we can and should help iraq, especially if the Iraqi Government is now not just a shiite sectarian government that chases away the sunnis as they did, but if its more inclusive government, we should help them in many ways against these, these, these really savage opponents. But not american combat component. I want to play a clip here that got attention. I think stoked a lot of concern from people who heard this. This is Lieutenant General william. This is the pentagon briefing. This is before the president s announcement. This was on monday. He was talking about what we are and what we are not able to do when it comes to isis, lets listen to that. We assess that u. S. Air strikes in Northern Iraq have slowed isils operational tempo and temporary disrupted their advances toward the province of erbil. However the strikes are unlikely to affect their overall capabilities or operations in other areas of iraq and syria. In no way to want suggest that we have effectively contained or that we are somehow breaking the momentum of the threat posed by isil. Congressman dent, i think that caught a lot of people by surprise that he qualified that to say were not even stopping their momentum. I dont want to say were stopping isiss momentum here militarily. Do you agree with what the congressman said primarily containing the threat of isis that primarily, we just be monitoring people going over there, or do you think there is more of a military role to be played here . Well, i agree with jerrys assessment about the threat to the homeland. That these isis fighters, many of them from europe, some from the u. S. Have the foeshl get back to the europe and u. S. Through the Visa Waiver Program and represent a threat. I agree with that point that jerrys made. I do believe that going forward, a few things are going to have to happen here. First, this new Prime Minister iowa bawdy is going to have to form a government quickly. Hes going to have to reconcile with the sunni, kurds, and sooe the eye. Specifically, hes going to have to make real concessions very fast. And help them with the oil revenue and hes going to have to more importantly bring the sunni tribesmen whove allowed isis in. I dont know if they can do that. Thats essential. Were going to have to develop a strategy going forward. We the west and our friend in the arab world because that i believe is really whats driving this problem now. We do need a comprehensive strategy. Nobody wants boots on the ground. It was just mentioned, air strikes alone will not, will not stop isis. Sure, and ive been supportive of the Administration Using these air strikes to protect the ya subsidy disand christians from mosl, and certainly to help our friend, the kurds, arm the kurds to the greatest extent possible, they are our friend. Theyre standing between the world and isis right now. I think our options right now are not good, and much of what happens is going to be dependent upon this new government in iraq. And i think, i dont know how thats going to play out. But in the men time, iraq is a partition, its a fractured nation today because of the vacuum that was left. Well thats, and congressman nadlor, people look at the history of iraq, its a fractured nation. Its a manufactured nation in a lot of ways in the wake of world war i. Can any leader put that together as a country . And if it cant, given what congressman dents just saying about how important it is to have an iraqi army to deal with isis, if the government of iraq is not able to do that, then do we have to then reassess what were doing in terms of isis . First of all, i agree, iraq is shattered. I hope the kurds will get the independence. Theyve earned it by moral behavior and other things. Second of all, we cannot, anymore that we could in afghanistan, determine whos going to win a civil war in iraq. Thats going to be determined by the people in iraq, in syria, in the middle east, itll be heavily influenced by neighboring countries like saudi arabia and iran on opposite side and so forth. We cant, we cant send in american troops and affect the outcome of that really. As in afghanistan. We had every right to go in, get rid of the bomb the camps, the al qaeda Training Camps that was creating mayhem here. We should have been out in three weeks and not determine who governed afghanistan for the next ten years. Same thing in iraq. We can themselves them, but if this new government unlike the maliki government gets the loyalty of the sunni, of the sunni tribes, they can contain. There are only ten or 15,000 at the most isis fighters. There are hundreds of thousands of people, supposedly, in the iraqi army. If thats society wants to stop it, they can. But they have to determine that, we cant. And so congressman dent, should there be some sort of date here. Should there be a time limit here that the u. S. Is willing to continue to do the air strikes and basically say iraq if you cant get your act together by then, were done with this . Well, i think the situations a bit more complex. Look, these air strikes that are ongoing now, at some point, the clock will tick on the war powers act and congress may have to be engaged in terms of an authorization. But our ability to help force reconciliation that jerry just talked about, and hes correct, we need to make sure that the sunni tribesmen reject isis. The way we did it during the surge back in 06, 07, you know that was part of a broader counterinsurgency strategy where we had a lot of american boots on the ground to help protect the sunni tribes from the al qaeda at the time. Now thats not going to happen this time. Were not going to have an American Military presence on the ground there to provide that kind of support. And so the question is, you know can they reconcile . Can they bring the tribesmen in . You have iran filling the back, the fact that we dont have anybody, maybe closer to 1,000 people in iraq now. But you know, i always thought they should have left the residual force there because once that residual force of ten top 15,000 americans was gone, that created the vacuum and its been filled by the shiites through iran and its been filled by the sunni through isis. And its led to this regional, at least this confrontation that weve seen. So at this point, there are not going to be boots on the ground, but at the same time, we are going to have to arm our friends and use proxies to do the fighting for us. All right. Congressman charlie dent from pennsylvania, appreciate you both being here this morning. Do you want to go to hawaii. Thats not a fair question. 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That happened to be the same day the Tropical Storm iselle slammed into a rural region on the big island. Few thousand register voters who were unable to participate last week participated yesterday instead. Those votes were a big difference. Shots led him by only 1600. They completed yesterday the votes in just two of the 247 precincts. Reminded many people of the forgotten 2008 Kevin Costner movie swing vote where a lone votered dids a president ial election. Yesterdays hawaii vote was all over, added another 134 points to his tally. In all likelihood, another two years in the senate for him. Seat is next up in 2016. In hawaii where they seem to value and prize incumbency. May be decades before brian leaves the u. S. Now. Up next, biggest thing at stake in every other senate seat this fall. Ill tell you about that straight ahead. So factors like diet can negatively impact good bacteria . Even if youre healthy and active. 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You wanna take a nap . get the good more with nfl mobile, free with the more everything plan. Exclusively from verizon. Now get 50 off all new smartphones. This week president obama highlighted what may be the single biggest item at stake in this novembers elections when control the senate will be up for grabs. Fundraiser for Senate Democrats in Marthas Vineyard where hes on vacation, the president said quote, were going to have Supreme Court appointments and there are going to be a whole host of issues that people care about and determined by whether or not democrats retain the senate. After a flurry of news report, the president doesnt have inside information about potential Supreme Court vacancies. He was just speaking in general terms. But whether or not there will be a Supreme Court vacancy before the end of his term, another one at least, obamas ability to fill any vacancies would be threatened if republicans win control of the senate this fall. Positions like cabinet members, federal judges, ambassadors, whole host of oppositions required to conduct Foreign Policy to run a Justice System and regulate the economy. In november, the democrats changed the rules of the senate so that many of the president s judicial nominees could be confirmed with a simple majority vote. Senate republicans outraged by that rules change took revenge last month when they blocked routine confirmation of several ambassadors. Heres mike enzy on the floor of the senate explaining that last month. We used to pass ambassadors and all kinds of people in block like that, but we have this Nuclear Option now that the majority chose and so it takes a little longer to do the whole pros, and on that basis, i object. So if the gop takes the senate and theres a vacancy on the Supreme Court, what happens then . Would it affect president obamas other nominations . Will republicans stone wall no matter what happened . Also what happens to the other opponents the president wants to make besides Supreme Court picks. He could stop every nominee from being confirmed for any position. Were here to talk about all of this is norm, hes an author of its even worse than it looks, if republicans get control of the senate this fall. They have the potential ability to basically block anything they want nominations wise. I guess ill start with the question of a stream court nomination. If lets say republicans win the senate this fall, spring of 2015, ruth announces her retirement, what happens then . Well, you know, it may be, may be different if its ruth compared to one of the conservatives say scalia or whos 78 and anthony kennedy. But, at minimum, if it happens early in the next two years. Were going to see probability obama forced to pick somebody who would be considerably less liberal than he might otherwise. But its going to be pushed to the limit, and my guess is if it happens after 2015 into early 2016, theres zero chance that even a replacement of a liberal with another moderate or liberal would happen. And if its a scalia or a kennedy vacancy, then youre going to get deaf con one and nobody will be confirmed no matter who is nominated. It seems like we play that clip from mike talking about the ambassadors on the senate floor. It seems like democrats in some ways were happy to do the, by the result of doing that knew leer option last year on changing the filibuster rules. But the flipside is, clearly republicans remember that. Well, therm it. You know, there were other options here. Unfortunately we didnt have a group of people coming together so to say do a tradeoff, allow some more amendments for republicans and bills on the floor and return for expediting the nomination process. But whats happened is, every confirmation battle down to the most limited trivial nominations now gets a filibuster. And it takes up time on the senate familiar. Harry reid pushed through a number of nominations. Takes hours because after you invoke closure, after you get the 50 votes now required for most of these nominations, you still have a post culture debate period. But the price has been that almost nothing else is there available to take up the limited time on the senate floor. Now ill tell you, steve, if the republicans win the majority in early november, almost certainly whats going to happen is that harry reid will bring back the senate lame duck session and use that time to push through as many judicial confirmations and Major Administration executive nominations as he can. And that will enrage republicans even more and give them even more of an excuse to block all nominations for the final two years. Which would be very difficult for barack obama. Is that, is that, how serious is that prospect . Beyond the Supreme Court, just all nominations, blanket, block everything whether its executive branch, judicial, whatever. How serious a possibility is that . I think its a real possibility. And you may see a handful go through. What we did see, mike first blocked the confirmation of the ambassador to russia. Imagine, at a time when were in the middle of these enormous tensions, they backed down on that one, but other ambassadors including to turkey have not gone through. You may see a handful go through. But youll see very few. And because barack obama is using his executive authority now in the face of this dysfunction and the inability to find any Common Ground for republicans to work with him on any major piece of legislative activity, he needs his executive people in place. And what we know is that in the final couple of years of a two term president , people leave, they leave before the final term is up, theyre looking for other jobs. They want to get out, some of them are just tired. If you cant replace those people, youre going to be limited in what you can do and so theres an added insintive for republicans to block those nominations. And could you see any scenario, the term the president used in the 2012 campaign, the fever will break, that doesnt seem to have happened. Republicans given their expectations for this fall, if they were to fall short, if they were not to take back the senate, disappointing election, do you think that might affect their psychology in the next two years . I do actually think if the republicans fall short, we are going to see some republicans in the senate, those who are a little bit more oriented towards solving problems. That includes the Lamar Alexanders and bob corkers of the world for example, the Susan Collins and lisas who might be willing to work out an arrangement with Senate Democrats to make it easier to enable some of these confirmations to go through. But of course, if democrats have the majority with the changes theyve made in the rules, they can still manage to get their nominations through. It just takes time. But lets face it, you are still not going to have a house of representatives thats willing to do anything that would enable barack obama to get a signing ceremony. So the legislative prospects will remain grim and that means that harry reid and the democrats can use more of their time pushing through confirmations of judges and executive officials. But its no way to run a government and its going to look even worse than it has looked for the past two years. All right. There we go, around to the book title again. Still on sale. Get your copy on amazon, im sure. Still ahead, not one, but two big senate races are taking place outside the continue 911 at it u. S. Wilds of continental u. S. , wilding of alaska. Coming up next. While a body in motion tends to stay in motion. Staying active can ease arthritis symptoms. But if you have arthritis, this can be difficult. Prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain, and improve daily physical function so moving is easier. Because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain. And its not a narcotic. You and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. All prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. They all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. This chance increases if you have Heart Disease or risk factors such as high Blood Pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. 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He barely beat long time republican senator ted stephens six years ago in that election was less than four months after stephens had been indicted on federal corruption charges. More recently, president obama lost in alaska by 14 points in 2012. So it seems that whom yer the gop picks to run against him has a good chance of winning. At least a decent chance. And only three days Republican Voters are going to pick their nominee. Their candidate to run against him. And right now, former alaska attorney general dan sullivan, Lieutenant Governor read itwell are the leading runners. That is a attorney and tea party joe miller. He beat alaska senator lisa in the 2010 republican primary. A shocking upset when that happened, but he lost to her right in campaign in the general election. Miller has the weakest republican candidate, think he could pull another upset off on tuesday with one democratic official saying miller is running Better Campaign than last time. And i would say based on what we know of the unreliable polling in alaska, he has a very clear chance to win. Even the loss on tuesday doesnt guarantee that miller will go away, says he wont back, treadwell or sullivan if either wins. And he hasnt ruled out running as an independent. That could split the conservative vote and deny republicans a victory in alaska. Nbc newss casey hunt was just in alaska to cover that senate race. She is back now in the lower 48 and joins us now. Youre in washington, d. C. Thats not a state but thats a whole other the matter. Reporter close to the other 48 states. Lets start with this one. We have the quote from the democrats saying hey, look, they see joe miller as another todd akin who blows a race 0 others could win. Hey, look, doing better. He could win this time. Is that Wishful Thinking or could he pull it out . Reporter first of all, miller did in a recent debate since i spoke to him actually, ruled out as a third party. He said he would support the republican nominee no matter who it is. That said this is something the democrats absolutely love. They love the idea joe miller is back. They love the idea he has all these ties to sarah palin who is a figure they would really love to be able to draw into this race. When you asked senator mark begich he was eager to criticize her for having quit the governship in alaska. Shes not alaska which, if youve been up there youll k k kickly learn is a pretty about big insult for a place that refers to the rest of the country as the outside or as the lower 48, as you said. So at this point it really is, i would say one of the things i learned when i was on the ground there is that this primary race is really more unpredictable than many people here in washington have portrayed it as. The establishment has gotten behind dan sullivan, worked in the bush administration. He knows karl rove personally when he worked in the white house and then at the state department for condoleezza rice. They have already spent a lot of money on the air. Democrats have spent millions on the air beating up on dan sullivan. The electorate in alaska especially in a primary is so small and unpredictable that at this point its really hard to say he will be guaranteed to be the guy who comes out on top. I think youve seen some of that in just how much these two candidates have been conscious of the positions and stances that joe miller has taken. I spoke to both treadwell and sullivan about the violence against womens act, something the whole alaska delegation for. Neither one would commit to saying they would vote for it. I would say that has something to do with the fact joe miller, the tea party candidate, is also in this primary. Quickly, when you look at begich, 2008 was a great year relatively speaking for democrats in the state of alaska. Thats probably about as good as its going to get. The president ial race was close. Hes running against a senator convicted right before the election, it was later overturned. He still barely wins. In the climate of 2014 whats the key to winning this fall . Reporter the key is really the idea he knows his state better than whoever ends up running against him and also that he can sort of prove that he is actually accomplish things for the state. One of the things with about alaska is the gridlock in washington has hung around mark be g ichs neck in a way it may not be for other incumbents and thats because the state itself, most of its owned by the federal government and most of the industries in alaska, oil, if i can, theyre all very heavily impacted by regulations coming out of the government. When i was up there talking to these fishermen, theyre all very knowledgeable about the rules and the laws, and they want something from with begich. All right, this is one of those well be keeping a close eye on. Not the last time well talk about alaska. My thanks to kasie hunt. Welcome back to the lower 48. Reporter happy to be home. [ male announcer ] ours was the first modern airliner, revolutionary by every standard. And that became our passion. To always build something better, airplanes that fly cleaner and farther on less fuel. That redefine comfort and connect the world like never before. After all, you cant turn dreams into airplanes unless your passion for innovation is nonstop. Ugh. Heartburn. Did someone say burn . Try alka seltzer reliefchews. They work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. Mmm. Amazing. Yeah, i get that a lot. Alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. Enjoy the relief. Of swedish experience in insidperfecting the rich,ars never bitter taste of gevalia. We do it all for this very experience. [woman] thats good. I know right . Gevalia. Female narrator the mattress price wars are on the mattress price wars are on at sleep train. We challenged the manufacturers to offer even lower prices. Now its posturepedic versus beautyrest with big savings of up to 400 off. Serta icomfort and tempurpedic go headtohead with three years interestfree financing. Plus, free sameday delivery, setup, and removal of your old set. When brands compete, you save. Mattress price wars are on now at sleep train. Your ticket to a better nights sleep so i think in that last segment i told kasie hunt welcome back to the United States, as if alaska is not part of the United States. I thought i had said to her welcome back to the lower 48. I got flustered because shes in washington, d. C. , which is not one of the lower 48s since its not a state. Anyway, i got if i confused anybody, i certainly confused myself. Thank you for joining us, tho h though, today for up. Well be keeping a close eye on ferguson overnight. Until then, coming up next is melissa harrisperry. On todays mhp melissa and her guests will tackle the story in ferguson. Stick around for that. Thanks for getting up this morning. Think the tree we carved our names in is still here . Probably dead. How much fun is this . What . What a beautiful sunset. If you like sunsets. Whether youre sweet or salty. Youll love Nature Valley sweet and salty bars. You fifteen percent or more on huh, fiftcar insurance. Uld save Everybody Knows that. Well, did you know words really can hurt you . What. . Jesse dont go jesse. No im sorry daisy, but im a loner. And a loner gotta be alone. Heee yawww geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. Jesse . This is charlie. His long day of doing it himself starts with back pain. And a choice. Take 4 advil in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. Honey, you did it baby laughs feet. Tiptoeing. Better things than the pain, stiffness, and joint damage of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. Before you and your rheumatologist decide on a biologic, ask if xeljanz is right for you. Xeljanz tofacitinib is a small pill, not an injection or infusion, for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. Xeljanz can relieve ra symptoms, and help stop further joint damage. Xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers have happened in patients taking xeljanz. Dont start xeljanz if you have any infection, unless ok with your doctor. Tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. Your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz and routinely check certain liver tests. 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