0 testified against him recanted and there was no physical evidence linking him to the >> i feel your pain. the problem that we have is -- i crime, there was strong evidence bet if you ask all four of us what does congress mean by tax reform you would get four of police mishandling of the different answers. to a lot of people on the hill, case. there's cases of innocent people i can tell you, lauri will back being sent to death row. me up on this i think, to a lot nearly 15 years since anthony of people on the hill, capitol hill, tax reform means cutting porter came within 50 hours of being executed in illinois after taxes. that's what it means. that's all they want to do is being exonerated and freed at cut taxes. they say they want to cut tax the last moment. rates but broaden the base to that story shook the state's help make up for the lost revenue. revenue neutral tax reform means governor. he asked his wife how does that happen? a few years later, ryan commuted by definition somebody's taxes go up. okay. that's what it means. every death sentence in the state to life in prison and can't lower the rates broaden nearly a decade after that the base without raising somebody's taxes and as far as illinois out lawed capital enough republicans to block anything called tax reform punishment all together. that's not is going to happen. last year connecticut followed and last week it was maryland. so unless there develops a kind so, let's pick it up on maryland of a taste for kind of a compromise that would actually and kirk you're from maryland. help clear out the code in ways and you have the experience we were just talking about, a that josh correctly suggested or totally complete lui innocent needed i don't see it going person who was sent to death row anywhere. >> let's look what some who was exonerated. republicans are doing at the you have the governor of state level. they are killing corporate and maryland, martin o'malley a income taxes and raising the democrat, this was his second sales tax. >> right. >> incredibly refwresive measure attempt to outlaw the death penalty. that they do in the name of the first one failed. he pushed forward with it. public opinion not really on his economic growth at the top. that formula of economic growth. side to believe the polls and i guess what i think of when i so i'm very concerned because look at this, imagine if this jared obviously raises the story we're talking about in excellent point that somebody's taxes have to go up and given cleveland where there's so much outrage and the idea of having the vision of the economy that the death penalty for ariel the conservatives have right now castro is very, i think it's that basically the more money you have the more merit you have very popular to people. as an individual that is going if that played out or something like that played out in to be that people who are baltimore now in the fares of struggling already in this economy end up paying more. martin o'malley outlawing >> i think this is a well road capital punishment what's the message to voters who look at a block to tax reform. in 1986 the way it work they cut case like castro and say we want the ultimate punishment for individual income taxes and this. what's the message then to say raised corporate income taxes, no? >> i have to tell you there's by doing a lot to broaden the been 142 individuals in the united states that have been corporate tax rate. exonerated from death row. now that's not possible because there's a consensus on both i think we had 300 plus dna sides in washington we can't elect more corporate taxes than exonerations in the united states. we do right now. we have a problem. >> whoa, really? the policy has failed us. >> or it wouldn't be desirable. by a large part. i don't think the obama i would tell any governor that this is the time we have to think. and when crimes of this nature administration has any interest happens it's a real heady thing in corporate tax reform. and people are going to make >> that's a sweeping success for choices. but we need not make too hastily corporate lobbyists. i'm sorry, but given the numbers a choice. i tell people you cannot -- you of where corporate revenue is as know we're in a place, you talk a share of the economy and about the polls and everything like that. federal budget the idea there you cannot climb over an could be consensus with any innocent man to kill the guilty. intellectual integrity we don't >> we should say, i guess, the story in maryland probably isn't need it i don't buy it. >> when you do international finished yet either because supporters of capital punishment comparisons, one thing that makes us look low on that is want to have a referendum on the about half of the businesses in the u.s. are organized such as ballot, i guess next year and they are taxed through the like i'm saying you have the individual income tax code. political will of the governor right now on the side of that's a big tax savings. outlawing it but the popular will to believe all the polls we >> there's a lot of big u.s. see, capital punishment still multinational corporations that polls at 60% plus. pay below 5%, an effective tax >> that's their right to have rate down to zero. you hear these reports this referendum you're talking regularly. that's because as josh said appropriate punishment for that, for killing others? >> you know, i think in those cases we have to be careful. i would bet that kirk would say at the time he was prosecuted and i bet the 125 other people on death row would say at the time they were prosecuted, the prosecutors, the public at large were saying this is a very clear cut case of guilt, this is a person that's definitely, absolutely unquestionably guilty. in the excitement and anxiety and upset of what are unquestionably brutal terrible crimes, mistakes are made and we know that. there's no question about that. not only are people convicted that are innocent, you see prosecutorial misconduct, you see mistakes made by the police department, you see constitutional error over and over again in capital cases in the united states. certainly these are terrible crimes that call for punishment but i think what we have learned is because there is so much error when you're talking about the death penalty, it's something different and you have to be more careful and in my view we shouldn't have the death penalty. >> i'm a person who bheeelievese i'm goining to dream about t that steaka. death penalty can be a deterrent i'i'm going toto dream about thatat tiramisu.u. and it should be. that's why we need reform. i understand what happened in whwhat a nightht, huh? maryland last week. think four years ago we had the but, u um, can thehe test drivie be over nonow? d.c. sniper who killed ten head b back to the d dealership?p? people, who had the whole region [ mamale announcncer ] it's praractically y yours. in lockdown and he was put to but we stitill need yourur signaturere. death four years ago in 2009. volklkswagen sigign then dririe is back. anand it's nevever been eaeasir to get a a passat. in cases like that where it's that's's the powerer of german n engineerining. very clear and convincing get $0$0 down, $0 0 due at sig, there's forensic evidence and in $0 depososit, anand $0 firstst month's p pt these type of cases when i argue on any n new volkswawagen. vivisit vwdealaler.com tododay. for reform because i do believe it can be a detriment we need to make at any time highest priority, a case that has national or statewide president obama kicked off significance not just a case his latest campaign yesterday to raise awareness about his where it's sensational like jodi signature achievement, one is arias or what's going on elsewhere but a case where it that's still being debated more than three years after its had national significance. we have to move forward with the enactment. critical dead lines for the death penalty. implementation are fast >> ultimately this is still a approaching and the white house want americans to know exactly political question and we see in maryland it could be very what's at stake. >> if you're one of the tens of obviously a political question if this is on the ballot but you millions who don't have health also have elected officials who are answering to a public and insurance, beginning this fall when there are cases like the you'll finally be able to sniper or cases like boston, compare and buy quality, those elected officials are taking into account, you know, affordable private plans that that public ground swell for we really want these people to pay. work for you. if you already got health i want to ask -- we have patrick insurance, this is just enhanced here. i want to ask how you balance it. if you don't, you're going to be what kristina raise with that able to get it. public desire for the ultimate >> so far obama care has justice when we come back. [ jackie ] it's just so frustrating... survived a supreme court challenge in the 2012 election but the intensity of republican opposition is hardly letting up. house majority lead eric cantor another vote to repeal obama care next week making that 40 attempts at repeal since the ♪ passage in 2010. the middle of this special moment next day speaker of the house john boehner and mitch mcconnell and i need to run off to the bathroom. sent a letter to president obama ♪ informing them of their refusal i'm fed up with always having to put my bladder's needs to nominate individuals to an ahead of my daughter. advisory board. ♪ boehner and mcconnell reiterated so today, i'm finally talking to my doctor their support for killing obama about overactive bladder symptoms. care. boehner was asked whether he thought there was a way to [ female announcer ] know that gotta go feeling? improve obama care which he ask your doctor about prescription toviaz. called the law of the land briefly after the 2012 election one toviaz pill a day significantly reduces and he had this to say. >> i don't believe there's a way sudden urges and accidents, for 24 hours. to fix this and to make it if you have certain stomach problems or glaucoma, acceptable to the american people. >> this came after the spokesman or can not empty your bladder, you should not take toviaz. for the national republican get emergency medical help right away senatoral committee said on if your face, lips, throat or tongue swells. monday he sees obama care a toviaz can cause blurred vision, driving issue in the 2014 mid dizziness, drowsiness and decreased sweating. term elections. do not drive, operate machinery or do unsafe tasks it will relegal a lot of kinks, until you know how toviaz affects you. a lot of red tape, a lot of the most common side effects are dry mouth and constipation. taxes, a lot of price increase. it will be an issue that's front talk to your doctor about toviaz. and center for voters in more tangible way than it was in 2010. i want to bring in sara cliff a health policy reporter for "the washington post," harry bacon jr., and returning to the table we have msnbc contributor and former democratic congressman from pennsylvania patrick murphy. perry, i'll start with you. i'm a little confused i guess when i see boehner talking this week, when i look at republicans so you can capture tyour receipts, ink forfects areall business purchases.tion. planning to make this the issue and manage them online with jot, of 2014. we had the supreme court case, the latest app from ink. this got all the way appealed to the top and upheld. so you can spend less time doing paperwork. we had the 2012 election this and more time doing paperwork. was a centerpiece issue. the president was re-elected. and then you had as we said very ink from chase. briefly after the election john boehner said it's the law of the land but we're still in 2010. >> key thing here the republican party is divided on immigration, gay rights, divide on social issues. obama care is one thing they can agree upon. john boehner has a hard time to get his members to agree where to go lunch. but he's sure when he has an obama care vote it's an issue they can mobilize, the governors agree, the base agrees. this is the one thing they can push in 2014 where they are confident conservatives are behind it. >> wonder where the consciences will be behind it, i wonder where the public will be. the implementation will start happening in the next year. we say implementation we're talking about setting up these health insurance exchanges, people who don't have insurance, aren't covered through their employers will get it through these exchanges and sara, jonathan comb who covers health care wrote about this implementation phase. his assessment was it's not is going to work as well as many of us would like in the initial adjustment may not be easy. this will be rougher even if it's good in the end rougher than we expect. >> that's a fair assessment. so we were talking about how we've seen the president in a is this in a lot of ways a news conference last week said there will be bumps in the road. political question, and it strikes me the last time there when you talk about the task, was a presidential candidate who signing 30 million people up for ran who was basically health insurance, for private health insurance, something the unequivalentally openly opposed government has never attempted to capital pun jushment it before that, you know, the last time we did something comparable created a moment in politics. was 1965 with medicare and i want to play that clip right medicaid. now. right now there's a poll last >> governor, if kitty dukakis week, 42% of americans aren't even sure if the health care law were raped and murdered, would is standing. if you're not in washington you favor an irrevocable death following the day-to-day, most people don't know what the law penalty for the killer? >> no, i don't, bernard and you is supposed to do or if it's going to work or if it was know identify opposed the death repealed by the supreme court. penalty all of my life. so there's definitely a lot of i don't see any evidence that work to do and you're seeing it's a deterrent and i think with the press conference the there are better and more administration is really effective ways to deal with starting right now to do its violent crime. outreach campaign and you'll see we've done so in my own state i think a ramp up through and one of the reasons why we october when open enrollment have had the biggest drop in starts and that's when you'll crime of any industrial state in see the intense attempts to get america, why we have the lowest murder rate of any industrial the word out. >> sara is right. rate in america. there will be hiccups. >> so that moment gets a lot of but if you take the long view of attention. i don't think hats the reason this, there were hiccups when michael dukakis lost in 1988. the bush administration passed it really got to the heart of medicare part d. there were stories saying this the emotional appeal of the idea is going to be the downfall, et cetera. of capital punishment. it's not true. people understand it will take people think of crimes where some time. it's personalized like that or but also look at medicaid. where the evidence seems to be and medicare. when medicare was passed under so clear cut that it cries out president johnson the majority for, you know, that kind of of the senators, the republican punishment. senators were again it. i wonder how in the political ronald reagan, george bush came arena you can balance that sort out and said it was socialized of instinct that people have if medicine. one of the most popular programs it was my wife, if it was my in american history. when you take the long view of child with, you know, especially obama care there's no doubt this in cases where it's clear cut. will be a popular program. kirk what would you -- it will save lives. >> i have to say trying a case one last thing. when you hear the stories people through politics is really not like barbara stakes who is from the way to go. bucks county, pennsylvania, 58 you know, we have to really years of age who had a seizure watch ourselves when we try disorder. she basically lost her job and cases from a bully pulpit, so to health insurance. she's not eligible yet for medicare. she's one of the folks that will speak. probably mr. dukakis lost he was fall through the gaps that will now be covered if the states do in a tank running across the the right thing because the road. i've seen all the willie horton point earlier -- passed the 2012 ads. my thing is we cannot go forward elections and the supreme court. and put people in the limelight the supreme court had a huge when we don't know the facts yet hole when it comes to medicaid about a case. you know, you're talking about, expansions. states can opt-out. when we're really sure about >> you lay that history there something. i had five identification and say medicare was eventually witnesses positively identify me accepted by everybody in the political system. as the last person. are we sure we're on that same i had one of the smartest trajectory. i ask because the success of the prosecutors in the state of maryland, judges, concerned implementation requires getting citizens but in the end they really young healthy people were wrong. we'll get to this point one time enrolled in this, because that where we'll make a mistake if it brings -- you need the healthy people in the risk pool to keep hadn't already happened with the costs manageable. troy davis and others and how can we pull it back. if they are not yoen rolled if i'll say this real quickly, they say cheaper for me 24 freddy pitts, he used to be a healthy young guy to pay the penalty instead of getting, you board of directors, chairman of know, you can't get the bare the board at witness of bones insurance option any more innocence. you'll get a more comprehensive, you can free an innocent man from prison but you can't free are we sure this -- >> you can get a bare bones for him from the grave and this is what we have to worry about. >> that's part of the challenge under 30. >> i got to learn. of death penalty opponents is >> so you're part of the 42%. making the case that, you know, just not having a death penalty and having life in prison isn't i would say the administration going easy on anybody. did think about this and thought about the fact they really do >> this is my point. need these young people, the listen, i don't sit here and say key, the young invincibles i'm for the death penalty. because they think they haven't had health problems they don't i was in congress for four need insurance. they created a catastrophic years. as someone who prosecuted option that's available to terrorists, i look at this and americans under 30. say it's not a deterrent right only young americans can get it. now in america and it need the idea is it's a lower premium, entice them into the reform. the easiest thing for michael risk pool. dukakis say it's not a >> the political thing people deterrent. younger that are invincible and the evidence shows it's not. the congress and united states republicans are trying to say and state legislatures but they will make you get health especially the congress hasn't insurance and if you don't get taken the initiative to look at it they will tax you. this thing and say is this it's a free. you know how much it? really the right thing to do? yes did it work for timothy $95. if you don't want to opt-in, but mcveigh. $95 if you don't because we absolutely. that was right way done the should all be in this together. right way. would have worked for bin laden >> one of the rules about health if we brought him back alive. insurance and it is a rule and yeah, probably. we're in this together, at the in my case, at least how i see end of the day, basically in any it, as someone who is a devout kind of health insurance pool that works you have the healthy catholic, and i look at the lay subsidizing the ill so you issue and i happen to be pro really do need those young folks choice so i get beat up from the in there. one of the problems we haven't right on that one. hit on right now is that but there's no real people congress particularly saying let's reform this thing republicans in congress are really tightening the purse let's make it happen because strings on the money they are there's not the political will but to me when i look at, you allowing the administration to use for implementation. i read a number the other day know, the commandments, the fifth commandment you shall not that said, if you compare this kill. to the amount that congress that basically means murder in granted to implement medicare the catholic faith. you can't commit murder. part d the bush program that in my case or in my view the death penalty isn't murder if included prescription drug it's used as a deterrent. coverage, we're at one-third of >> when we say a deterrent that. congress is allotting one-third that's what i wonder. of that 0 implement the to me if it's going to be a affordable care act which is deterrent it has to be something much more complication. carried out swiftly and in a lot >> implementation is key to get of cases but the message, cases people into the risk pool to make it work. like yours kirk seems to be that sara, you broke some interesting if you isolate to a few cases news yesterday about where that money might be coming from to like bin laden or something okay get public awareness up. you got a good chance of not i want you to explain that after this. executing somebody innocent but the more widely it's used the -- these digestive issues... >> most of these cases are not with three strains of good bacteria. done right away. my argument for reform is if you [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. put the highest priority on both side of the aisle where you have not just witness statements you i did? have dna you have the forensics when visa signature asked everybody what upgraded experiences really mattered... that prove it but also the best you suggested luxury car service attorneys on the other side and instead of "strength training with patrick willis." the full weight of justice system on both sides going at come on todd! flap them chicken wings. each other for true justice. [ grunts ] remember, those who advocate for well, i travel a lot and umm... the death penalty including [ male announcer ] at visa signature, folks of the catholic st., saint every upgraded experience thomas aquinas said the death comes from listening to our cardholders. penalty shouldn't be used for visa signature. your idea of what a card should be. [ female announcer ] stress sweat is different than ordinary sweat. convenie vengeance it should be used as a it smells worse. get 4x the protection against stress sweat. deterrent. you could reform it to don't make it more of a deterrent. >> see ed wants to address that. ? nah. okay. this, won't take long will it? no, not at all. how many of these can we do on our budget? more than you think. didn't take very long, did it? this spring, dig in and save. that's nice. post it. already did. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. show mom why you're her favorite, with a 12" infinity color bowl, a special buy at just $14.98.