Transcripts For MSNBCW Up With David Gura 20190512

Investigations with donald trump jr. Subpoenaed by the Senate Intelligence committee, its become personal for the president. If he fails to answer, he ought to be put in jail. He has no privilege, prison is the only answer. And call me maybe. President trumps hangup with the former secretary of state who brokered the Iran Nuclear Deal. John kerry tells them not to call, thats a violation of the logan act. And frankly, he should be prosecuted on that. It is the 12th of may, happy mothers day, everybody. Just like a perfect mother. No, i wasnt. Yes, you were. You were always so calm and sweet with me. Thats because every moment was a joy. [ crying ] why wont you [ bleep ] sleep . Up with me, tim obrien, executive editor of Bloomberg Opinion and contributor. Ali vitaly, an msnbc political reporter, lisa green, author of on your case. And chris lui, he was cabinet secretary in the white house and before that chief deputy in the House Oversight committee. We begin with President Trump launching his first attack on white House Counsel don mcghan whose testimony was invaluable to Robert Mueller. We learned that he rebuffed at least two requests by the white house to declare publicly the president did not obstruct justice. President trump responding to that reporting, quote, i was not going to fire Robert Mueller, false, by the way. In fact, he was allowed to finish his report with unprecedented help from the Trump Administration. Actually, lawyer don mcghan had a better chance of being fired than mueller. Never a big fan. He claims. Seemingly forgetting what he said in the past. Don mcghans a really good guy. Been with me a long time. And a lot of affection to don. Hes done an excellent job. Any concern about what he said to the mueller no, not at all. Not at all. President trump is attacking don mcghan as he tries to prevent him from testifying on capitol hill. And the Washington Post is calling this this morning a noncooperation strategy. There have according to the post some 20 separate investigations in congress being blocked in some way by the trump white house. It is the most expansive white house obstruction effort in decades. Tim, let me start with you, have you react to the back and forth between the president and don mcghan. I tweeted this yesterday because i saw the tweet, went to the historical record. Looked at the announcement, when President Trump announced that his Campaign Counsel was going come, his white House Counsel. He has a brilliant mind and deep understanding of constitutional of law. Weve seen this movie over and over. One falls out of the president s graces and theres an amnesiay that amnesia that he once loved them. Mcghan cooperated under protest. He said he thought it was a bad idea. The white house wanted him to cooperate. He said this is going to void the privilege if i do this. They told him to do it anyway. Now theyre upset with the results. I think the only person who should have any remorse about how this played out is the president himself. The reality is hes now pressuring a private citizen. Mcghan no longer works for the white house. Not too cooperate with congressional oversight procedures. And i think its also worth remembering that when the congress drafted impeachment papers on nixon, one of the articles of impeachment was his willing sort of ignorance and disallowable of subpoenas. This transcends trump and mcg n mcghan. The separation. Powers, legitimacy of congressional oversight, and the administrations willness to subvert that. Alleie, write being the assessment of the ways writing about the assessment of the ways the white house is blocking the investigations. What do you make of the way this is coalesced into the noncooperation strategy . Unsurprising, right . I dont think any of us thought, okay, the white house is going to buckle down and get all of the oversight documents for the committees. That was never going to happen. But i think that the way this is percolating now is in a way that on the campaign trail where i spend most of my time were aware that voters arent necessarily thinking of mueller every night before they go to sleep, right. I would say when we were out with Elizabeth Warren, she was asked not about mueller specifically, but about the obstruction from the white house and about what that means for democracy overall. And that gives candidates an opportunity to say, hey, look, im running for the same job the president has, and im concerned even about what this means for democracy going forward. Everyone should comply because no one is against the law. It makes it more of a battle on principle and on the constitution which i think is a fuzzier space for republicans to operate in. Lisa, someone who is thinking about Robert Mueller every night in bed, and you can see the construction continues. As tim says, this is a private citizen being asked to testify on capitol hill. His lawyers in response to what was reported in the new england journal of medicine in the journal and the times saying this about the president of the United States, pressure is being applied continually on the private citizens and others. Yeah. The president was around during watergate, and one thinks of john dean. I remember when Michael Cohen was about to left people saying this is going to be the john dean moment. Michael cohen was no john dean, but my conjures of one of the things he did by testifying. Kind of elevated the issue of obstruction beyond the underlying offense. In nixons case, that was the burglary. In trumps case, it was the russia interference. And we see mcghan unwillingly i guess at this point reminding everyone that obstruction is really important. Of course, the difference here is mcghan is declining to testify. And if hes subpoenaed, he is subpoenaed, but if he declines on may 21st, its going to take a while for the courts to sort it out. I dont think we should be setting our dvrs if people still set dvrs to see mcghan testify. Let me draw from your experience on the hill. You look at the investigations being stymied. If im the chairman of the committee and read it in the newspaper, im aware things have not been working for some time. Is the result to be defeatist, or what can one do . I think thats the challenge. I95 been both sides of pennsylvania avenue. Ive written the president s and had to answer them at the white house. What happens is theres an accommodation between the branches. If the disputes dont get resolved, if goes to the courts. Theres always a system of norms and traditions to make sure we dont get out of whack. Weve never been tested in such a way by a president who says, look, im not cooperating, go ahead and sue me. If i dont get a decision i like, im going to attack the are you in the constitutional crisis camp . I am in the constitutional crisis camp. We vent talked about a president we havent talked about a president shifting money for a border wall. He wont defend the Affordable Care act even though its passed by congress. The question comes what can do think in the end. Some are talking about the interherent contempt power. The other thing is the power of the purse. Are they going to defund offices . I keep going back to the column in the times this weekend. If you really think theres a constitutional crisis you got to act on it. Democrats have to do more to wield power and influence over this process. In light of what chris is saying there, are there any tools left in do that . Is it an issue of if you open the box theres a will to do this them . He said they could fine 25,000 a day. There is no jail in the congress. Weve heard that, too. You know, i think obviously the c calculus is is there a political cost to impeaching, being more great britain. The other side aggressive . The other side is where are we in a larger historical sense about how the government should operate. I think people should act according to their conscience. I think theyre dealing with an administration right now that thinks its above the wall, thats put people in place constitutionally to allow trump to act unilaterally. I dont think hes going to stop acting unilaterally. Some of thats going to become dangerous. I think as we get closer to the campaign, i think youll see more specifically on the foreign overseas issues. Highs going to start to try to flex his muscles. I think oversight and restraint are going to become real issues voters are concerned about. A lallie, braurn is a prairi Elizabeth Warren is a prairie populist. Shes been calling for impeachment, calling out members of the administration. Whats your sense from her staff, from those going to those rallies about the resonance of what sheets been tas been talk that there needs to be impeachment proceedings. The first thing that came out is this is not the foundation of their campaign. Not the marquee part of the plane. Thats not the plan. To her shes made the argument that was elected to defend the constitution. She plays it out in a way that makes sense, she saw three things in the Mueller Report that made her think theres are things here that are impeachable. For her, this is a part of the campaign. Its not the full campaign. I think democrats would do well to remember that. Most of them are not on the impeachment train. As they begin to potentially get on it, its important for them to remember the 2018 lesson which is that you need to campaign on issues that people are going to bed thinking about at night. The stunning thing to me is this is something of the white houses own making when you look at the Mueller Report. Ty cobb said we should be able to give what they ask for. The president signed on the strategy, youre totally right that this is his fault. And don mcghan is not someone whos going to buck what the president says. Its not surprising hes not running to the hill. Also hes the one who is the problem in this Mueller Report. Were going to come back in a moment. Coming up, President Trump attacking the latest report on his finances. He hes able to rationalize the loss of more than a billion dollars. We have one of the few people whos seen the president s tax returns. Thats coming up next. Sidents x returns. Thats coming up next. Its been a long time since andrew dusted off his dancing shoes. Luckily denture breath will be the least of his worries. Because he uses polident 4 in 1 cleaning system to kill 99. 99 of odor causing bacteria. Polident. Clean. Fresh. And confident. 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Clearly better money management. Did you know comcast business goes beyond fast with a gigspeed network. Complete internet reliability. Advanced voice solutions. Wifi to keep everyone connected. Video monitoring. Thats huge. Did you guys know we did all this stuff . No. Im not even done yet. Wow. Business tv. Cloud apps and support. Comcast business goes beyond at t. Start with internet and voice for just 59. 90 a month. Its everything a Small Business owner needs. Comcast business. Beyond fast. There is up, im david gura. The New York Times reports that President Trump lost more than a billion dollars over the course of a decade in the 80s and 90s. President trump saying those losses were for tax purposes. He said, i won the 2016 election partially based on no tax returns. While i am under audit, which i still am, and the voters didnt care. The democrats want to relitigate the matter and make it part of the 2020 election. According to the times its based on irs transcripts and the original tax returns, not on the forms themselves. Legislators move aid step closer to passing a bill that would allow state returns to be released. House democrats in washington issued new subpoenas to treasury secretary mnuchin and the irs commissioner, demanding that President Trump release tax returns by 5 00 this coming friday. Tim is one of the few people whos seen tax returns, author of trump nation the art of being donald trump. You wrote as one who saw Donald Trumps more than a decade action, he sued me which was dismissed, you tick through six questions that might be answered. Income could business activities, charitable giving, tax planning, transparency and accountability. As well. When you look the at it, help us understand what that tells us and what doesnt. Were looking at decades of returns. I think theres different issues. The issues raised in the times reporting, one, was he a your busines business was he a good businessman. It gets to what his real capabilities are. Is he somebody who could do what he said he could do, he was such a great businessman, i will bring that policy to washington and policymaking. He was an abysmal businessman. He almost went personally bankrupt in the 90s. He needed his fathers help financially to avoid being put to the curb. I think those returns, when trump says actually, all those losses were become a took advantage of the tax code, it was depreciation and writeoffs. One, thats not true. The times reporting shows most of the losses were because of inept business practices. If, however, he is saying that he managed to take advantage of tax codes that werent available or werent straight forward, then theres a possible issue of fraud. I think people should entertainment both responsibilities entertain both responsibilities, that he was a bad businessman and may have committed fraud. I think the most important tax returns, however, are not 195 auto 1985 to 1994. Theres a period around 2004 to about 2009 where several hundred millions of dollars come into the Trump Administration organization that seems mysterious to me. He went on a spring spree. He bought spending tree. He bought a golf course in scotland, the trump hotel. Where does the money come from . If it comes from overseas, Eastern Europe or the gulf states or china, does a foreign power have its hooks into the president. And does that period of time suggest to people that long before trump ran for president , was he on the hook to someone else who had control over him. And did that affect hislisa, le washington, d. C. When you look at how narrowly tailored Richard Neals task was, and we saw Steven Mnuchin reject the first ask for the returns, how optimistic are you of what happens friday of this week . The ways and means is clever because its predicated on the item that tim raises which is its important to see what the audit processes are like when it comes to the United States president. Mnuchin says, no, thats impossible. What you come up against is the fundamental issue of separation of powers. Shouldnt the house have the right to look at the tax returns. They were floating a law that said congress could look at any return which seemed a good idea. Theres a parallel case in washington with a hearing this week about subpoenaing the president s Accounting Firm. What were seeing is this interesting parallel play where a president who ran on his business acumen absolutely reskbrekts the idea that anyone can peek into his taxes. Lets look at albany and what happenedment we saw this in the case of the mueller investigation. States positioned themselves to potentially move if a pardon were to be granted, some of the principles in that matter. What do you make of whats happening in albany . Its for the state tax returns and the double jeopardy bill. I mean, the president will 50s figh face fights on all fronts, at least the remainder of the next two years. Youve got the 12 cases from the Mueller Report farmed out to u. S. Attorneys. States are saying were going to continue our state actions. If we get a legitimate subpoena from a congressional committee, well provide the tax returns of any individual. And so this is a reasonable thing that states are doing, and it just shows the amount of jeopardy that the president is. Let me make a personal point. When i was nominated to be the deputy secretary of labor and went before the u. S. Senate, i had to provide several years of tax returns. I had to provide extensive Financial Disclosure documents. If thats the case for anyone who works in the federal government at a high level it makes no sense that the president , as tim, who potentially could be compromised by financial interests doesnt have to do it. How interesting would it have be been with acting . And courting eye to eye with the president on several issues. How the administration is trying to smooth things over with putin as trump invites him to the white house again. First, the Campaign Early that saturday night live took to heart. Buttigieg butte edgeedge. They say edgeedge. Always keep your eyes open, be careful, and let Law Enforcement know when you see a kook. [ laughter ] [ laughter ] tech at safelite autoglass, we know sooner or later. Every chip will crack. This daughter was Home Visiting when mom saw a chip in her windshield. Mom honey is that a chip . Tech they wanted it fixed fast so they brought it to us. Mom hi. 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Is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. Boost® high protein. Be up for life. The united explorer card hooks me up. Getting more for getting away. Traveling lighter. Getting settled. Rewarded. Learn more at theexplorercard. Com. This is up, im david gura. Authoritarians are on the agenda for the Trump Administration this week. Secretary of state mike pompeo is traveling to russia for a meeting with president putin. In washington, President Trump is welcoming hungrys Prime Minister to the white house. He is a rightwing nationalist and the latest strongman President Trump has embraced. The New York Times writing he shares with mr. Trump a dislike of immigration, independent institutions that can check his power, and an International Institution they say undermine national sovereignty. The former under secretary of state for Political Affairs joins us. The practice at the Howard Kennedy school. And joining me, director of color, of change. Pick up the globe, orbahn is called a mini trump who theyre his skill and eliminate late the politics of fear. This visit ostensibly about natural gas, mediumrange mills. Whats it really about as you see it . Its about the battle of ideas underway in europe now. The biggest issue, david, in europe right now is the rise of the far right antidemocratic popul populus. Its happening all over, challenging democratic leaders. And orban is a mini putin. Hes curtailed press freedoms, judicial freedoms, hes thrown out the americanled, Central European mutually, and the problem is that donald trump in the battle between our friends, germany, france, britain, the canadians, all led by democratic leaders, against the rightwing antidemocratic populus. And at a tight when hes receiving victor orban, of course secretary pompeo canceled a visit to see angela merkel, the most important democratic leader of europe. Were on the wrong side of one of the most important issues facing the west and night and the western alliance. Are bee going to be supportive of democracy or farright democratic populus. Set up the conversation here at the table. I saw a news item out of hungary that Prime Minister orban wants to talk about immigration, that theres some hope there down a global evolution of like minded individuals when it comes immigration. I want to hear about how it ae dockly reverberating domistically reverting rating around the world. Orbans led the effort to try to block immigration into europe and refugee acceptance. There are 68 million refugees and displaced people in the world in the eastern part of europe led by hungry, its closing its doors. The west european democracy saying we have to take in some in order to achieve global stability order, to do the right thing to people fleeing persecution. Again, President Trump on the wrong side of this issue here in the United States. Currying favor with someone whos leading, frankly, sometimes an antimuslim campaign in europe. Rashad robinson, weve heard the president s comments on free speech, for instance, being used by other leaders as ammunition for their own agendas. Now were seeing it with immigration and security, as well. Help us understand the ramifications of that. This is a new american ideal being spread. Perhaps the distaste of many. You know, who has speech and whos able to speak loudly and clearly has always been about power. I do think in some ways this speaks to some of the ways in which the left has failed to tell a full story to people, that has helped them understand whats happening in the world and whats happening in this country. When we talk about the challenges weve had with our economy, weve talked about challenges weve had with so many issues, oftentimes, the democrats, particularly the elected democrats will tell people that its a structural problem. When people think about poverty, they say, oh, no, its structural, instead of calling out the enablers, the perfect who manufacture the problems here in this country and worldwide. And so whether its what weve done in other countries that have sort of incentivized people to want to flee these countries and need to flee these countries. When we say things that its structure and dont actually name the villains because were afraid of calling out corporations, were afraid of calling out some of the people who made it happen, our opponents can fill that in with immigrants, with black people, with, you know, womens equality, about so many other stories. And thats a much easier story for people to hold on to. So donald trump in many ways is being fueled to tell this story about whats happening in this country, the strong men around the world, able to fuel that story because we havent told the full story about the challenges to our economy and our democracy exist. Its not about, you know, people fleeing for a better life. Its about the things weve done worldwide to force people to have to flee. Allie when youre not on the trail, youre in washington. Youve seen whos come through the white house doors. For trump the aim will be deepening ties to autocratic strongmen he publicly admires such as russian president vladimir putin, egypts assisi, and italys fatini. There is a long list of questionable sorts that have made their way to the white house. Thats true. Even when i covered the white house, it was stunning because it was the first year that we saw he was embracing strong men. It wasnt necessarily surprising based on what we knew about trump, but it was surprising based on what we know about president s of the United States. Where trump has been successful, frankly, is maybe not necessarily domestically on a policy front. He hasnt necessarily executed a lot of things on his agenda in that way. But he has certainly had a Lasting Impact on the world stage simply because of where he chooses to put his attention. So it doesnt necessarily require a lot of energy on his part. It requires picking up the phone and sending a readout, and that in and of itself shows where the United States is willing to put their time and energy, and thats where he can be successful. Were going to stay here. Next, President Trump making bold allegation against former secretary of state john kerry. Hes calling for prosecution for violating the logan act even though allowed one of his advisers to do something very similar. Sers to do something ve similar. Not this john smith. Or this john smith. Or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana Medicare Advantage members. No, its this john smith. Who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. At humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care thats just as unique as you are. 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R thats because right where you live, theres a need for your time and skills and effort and talent. Please consider volunteering and feeling that feeling that you helped someone today. What id like to see with iran, id like to seelot. John kerry tells them not to call. Thats a violation of the logan act. And frankly, he should be prosecuted on that. Thats President Trump sounding kind of jilted at an event on drug prices of all things. Accusing former secretary of state john kerri. Breaking the law by discussing john kerry of breaking the law by discussing iran deals after he left office. The president went on to say secretary kerry should be prosecuted for violating the logan act. This is a statement from his spokesman, everything President Trump said is simply wrong, end of story. Trumps wrong about the facts, wrong about the law, and sadly hes been wrong about how to use diplomacy to keep america safe. What is the logan act . Its been a while since we talked about it as far as one of President Trumps advisers. Signed into law in 1799 krjizing negotiation by unauthorized importance with Foreign Government having a dispute with the United States. If john kerry were guilty of it, President Trumps former adviser Michael Flynn would be, too. He discussed sanctions relief with russia during the transition period before donald trump was inaugurated. At the time, the thenpresident elect said it would have been okay with me if flynn did it. I would have directed him to do it if i thought he wasnt doing it. Back with us, nicholas burns. You in your postgovernment life travel widely, talk to sitting officials from governments around the world. Are you in a position not unlike secretary of state john kerry is in. Your reaction to how the president see this as a violation of that 18th century law. You know, david, its a diversionary tactic, a classic trump move. You want to change the subject. I think few people have been charged with the logan act two in 200 years. No ones been convicted in 200 years of american history. This is a division, the president is following a policy that is not working. We had iran, excuse me, contained through the Iran Nuclear Deal of 2015. We had taken away their ability to create a Nuclear Weapon through either plutonium or uranium processing. The president has blown that apart. He took the United States out of the Iran Nuclear Deal. Hes weakened the International Coalition against iran. Hes made it more likely that iran will try to strike out and rebuild that program. Its a mess. And now were imposing secondary sanctions on companies in britain, france, and germany. Weve turned our ire against our closest friends. I think thats why he went after john kerry the other day because the policy is simply not working. Chris lu, its another personal attack, the likes of which weve seen time and time again by the president. Yes, its diversionary, it might concern some, as we were talking about during the break, this could affect any number of people. It is the president targeting an individual. Exactly right. The irony is it happens on the same week that his private attorney, rudy giuliani, was supposed to head to ukraine to try to open up an investigation of Vice President biden. To meddle, meddling is okay in this giuliani said im going as a private citizen. He arguably would fall under the logan act, as well. Exactly as the ambassador said. This is a diversionary effort. The president s effort to try to find a new relationship with iran after blowing up the Iran Nuclear Deal failed. Like his efforts come come up with trade efforts to come up with trade agreements after end tpp, as well. He thinks he can go after john kerry. As the ambassador said, two people have been indicted, and if you are going to start prosecuting, you would start with the trump folks. This was a conversation we were having about Michael Flynn just a matter of months ago. Right. Im sure that registered with trump. I mean, obviously donald trump did not know what the logan act was before he became president. Theres a lot of par sip pells of government so how it came to register in his consciousness is an interesting thing. I imagine it ties to mike flynn. The larger thing thats concerning is again the president is using his office and the powers of his office to target individuals. And i think that thats something we all should be disturbed by and concerned about. He said this week that he had no problem if joe biden got investigated. Hes done this time and again. And hes got an attorney general whos referred to federally sanctioned Law Enforcement investigations as spying and wants to use the power of his office to go back and do some forensic work to see if people were loy al to the president. Theres a major trend to unilaterally use Law Enforcement powers and executive powers to target people. There was james baker, former fbi council, was on rachel maddow. The first question, how are you doing in light of what hes done through. She was asking about how hes budget the subject of the president s tweets. He talked about how earth shattering, how upside down that can make when you youre the subject of the president s targeting. Help us understand just the ramificationses when it comes to cultural discourse, to the way we behave when we know we could be targeted by 280 characters. Its changed the way people respond. The fact is that because we dont have the type of strong oversight in congress, because we dont have the rule of law respected, because so much of the conventions are being thrown out i oftentimes like to think of donald trump as a changetherules candidate. The previous candidates were change candidates and trying to change in the conventions. We may not have agreed with housing and urban development secretaries, but we know they would have done something for housing and urban development. The things thrown out, the way we expect, that Court Rulings would be upheld, subpoenas would be followed, those are thrown out. The same with the way the president used his bully pulpit. As a result hes been able to get us to follow that. Follow the treats. Follow the statements because he is the payment. As a result he end up taking our eye off the ball of the thing thats sitting in front of our face about sort of whether or not our laws and our standards are being upheld. Ambassador, last question to you. Were going to talk about ambassador john bolton in the next hour. John hudson wrote the piece you on in light of venezuela ambassador bolton has been the subject of the president s ire. Talk about the role hes playing when it comes iran, his views on the condition are not a secret. How are they shaping how the president s acting here and the policies changes that weve seen over the last week . Nbc news reporting in that exclusive piece this week about this meeting that ambassador bolton convened at cia headquarters to deal with iran and iraq. Certainly john bolton historically has been someone who has favored a no kprom icom and nodeterrence policy, seeking to undermine the regime and engage in regime change. In the second term of president george w. Bush, there was a consensus among most democrats and republicans that iran is a major problem in the region, a troublemaker, a destabilizer, got to try to contain the iranian power. But this is a nuclear deal thats the best way to stop them from becoming a Nuclear Weapons power. I fear that john bolton never really shared that view and is trying to seek, lead the United States government into an ill advised and i think illinformed confrontation with the iranians militarily. Its not in our interests to do that. Were so much stronger than iran. We can contain iran. But the problem is if we go too far in a military direction, you know, you never know what youre going to enter into and the. C and the consequences before it starts. I think prunes is prudence is a. Appreciate your time on this mothers day. Thanks for joining us in new york. Michael cohen reported to federal prison on monday. He is still making headlines. Questions swirling around a prominent evangelical leaders endorsement of donald trump brokered by the president s former fixer. Ered by the presid former fixer you wouldnt accept an incomplete job from any one else. Why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. And all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. Flonase sensimist. So. Your Student Loans are holding you back. From buying a house, investing for retirement, and living your best life . Its time to refinance your Student Loans with sofi. You could get a lower monthly payment, amazing customer service, and you can see your rate in just 2 minutes. Refinance your Student Loans, and you could save big. And you could save big. [kno king] memories. What we deliver by delivering. This ijust listen. vo theres so much we want to show her. We needed a car that would last long enough to see it all. avo subaru outback. Ninety eight percent are still on the road after 10 years. Come on mom, lets go i hope that when i rejoin my family and friends that the country will be in a place without xenophobia, injustice, and lies at the helm of our country. Theres their still remains much to be told, and i look forward to the day that i can share the truth. Newfound optimism of Michael Cohen, telling reporters hes got to to tell. He stepped out of public spotlight to begin his threeyear prison sentence it up the river. Michael cohen may be out of sight, but hes not out of the headlines. Reuters published an exclusive report that Michael Cohen claimed he helped destroy personal photographs of liberty universitys jerry fall well jr. Before the leader endorsed donald trump for president. In a taped conversation reviewed by reuters which nbc news has not obtained, Michael Cohen is reportedly heard saying Jerry Falwell jr. And his wife wanted to keep photographs, personal photographs, from becoming public. I actually have one of the photo photos,Michael Cohen said, without going into specifics, its terrible. Falwell declined to comment through the article but his attorney denied the report in the Washington Post. Quote, while the falwells have a longstanding friendship with Michael Cohen they never engaged or paid cohen to represent them in any likely or other professional legal or other professional capacity, and cohen did not resolve a legal matter on their batehalf. Was the legal photograph connected to that in some form or fashion . Thats what we asked reuters. There is no link that we could find between the fact that there was an endorsement and this claim that Michael Cohen had assisted the falwells in this other matter involving these personal photographs that they didnt want exposed. I think chris hayes eyebrows say it all there. No clear link. Tim, your reaction to the story wow. You drew the short straw here at the table. What do you make im astounded at the friendship between Jerry Falwell jr. And mike. I mean, i think that donald trump told them perhaps that Michael Cohens a good fixer. And they had a personal problem i think theyve parsed the issue neatly by saying it didnt involve a legal matter. He flew down to florida to talk. Yeah. Theres no indication that there was a legal matter. There seemed to be personal embarrassment involved. I dont want to think about what might be in the photo. Theyre terrible. They are terrible. Yes. You know, the evangelical communitys support for trump has always been a curiosity at best. Heres a president confounding. Its confounding. Hes consorted with porn stars, cheated in a serial fashion on his spouses. He is not a moral paragon. Hes never going to church on a regular basis. He is not somebody whos a bible thumper, but he understands the uses and abuse of power. And i think the fact that the evangelical community has come behind someone who doesnt really embrace most of their values, theres two things here either hes a useful vehicle for them for getting policies enacted that they care did, the reason that a lot of people of different stripes support President Trump sure. Or perhaps trump had dirt on them, the uglier reality of president ial campaigning and the issue of Michael Cohen would suggest that. Allie, you were covering President Trump on the trail. How important was the endorsement . A surprise because i think senator ted cruz launched his campaign at liberty he did. When we were out there, i remember all of us scratching our heads and saying what does Jerry Falwell jr. See in trump. Yes the evangelical makes no sense for all the reasons you laid out. In digging into that, the thing they hinge ist on is conservatie judges. They probably have don mcghan to thank more than donald trump. The Jerry Falwell was always a huh, what happened there. Lets step back and assess who Michael Cohen has been good at. In a way that like ken feinberg is good at this type of fixing. As we learned in this piece, its a narrow wisconsin expertise. He has demonstrated they dont teach in in law School Subject matter expertise from the essential consultants agreement that worked hand in glove with the National Enquirer to eliminate the impact of the stories of women coming forward to this, which it seems all it took was Michael Cohen pointing out extortion was the law. But cohen is the gift that keeps on giving in another way which is his testimony before congress is linked to donald trump jr. Being subpoenaed for from additional testimony. And i think we may see thanks to his friend tom andrnold or frie or frienemy talking about whats in the vault, took the documents. Have we seen the end of cohens reference i think so. Hes the seed that has sprouted the investigations or i literal have no interest in Jerry Falwells photos. You dont want to see it . No. I will stay out of your private photos if you stay out of the private loves of who people love and the reproductive choices that they make. Very good. Tim obrien, help us step back. Nooik prison for heres Michael Cohen in prison for three years. And now help us mark the moment as he steps into prison, how much. A turning point is it in the story . As you followed the narrative of donald trump for so long, this chapter closed. Michael cohen wants a deal. Every time he i have more information or people should be shocked by what i have to say, when he gets out of prison he wants a book deal. Ive never thought that Michael Cohen was a sort of fulcrum in all of this in the way that others might have when he first came into the Southern Districts targeting. I think, however, what Michael Cohens important his important example is the ongoing investigations of the president that exist beyond what Robert Mueller was doing. I think the Southern District investigation being paramount among them, and we know that the investigation has looked at other people in the trump organization, trumps business dealings and others. The thing about Michael Cohen he is first in what may be a series of domino thats tip over around the president in his extra characteristic laugh dealings beyond the white house. His charitable organizations, his business, and foreign dealings. Thank you all for being here. Tim, take one of these cookies home for your wife for mothers day. Lisa, happy already mothers da of you. Thank you to all and thanks to rashad rabin son, as well. Next, service to the president or loyalty to the rule of law. A source that president multiple trump advisers the chopping block. And the white house may be running out of adults in the room. And House Speaker nancy pelosi, to impeach or not impeach. Why the president is doing a good case himself to do it. At average risk. Honey have you seen my glasses . Ive always had a knack for finding things. Colon cancer, to be exact. And i find it noninvasively. No need for time off or special prep. It all starts here. You collect your sample, and cologuard uses the dna in your stool to find 92 of colon cancers. You can always count on me to know where to look. Oh, i found them i can do this test now ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. Covered by medicare and most major insurers. 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The that question again front and center this morning as the president lashes out at former white House Counsel don mcghan tweeting this, lawyer don mcghan had a better chance of being fired than mueller. Never a big fan. Don mcghan reportedly sat down for 30 hours of interviews with the special counsel and his team. But mcghan, as weve learned in recent days, will not offer the president what he wants a statement that he doesnt think President Trump obstructed just. Mcghan not the only official frustrating the president by adhering to the former lawyer. Heres former secretary of state rex tillerson. I could sign on to just about all of his objectives. Theyre good for america. Our differences were always on tactics. Id have to say to him, mr. President , i understand what you want to do, but you cant do it that way. It violates the law. It violates treaty, you know. And and he, you know, just he got really frustrated. We cant forget anonymous, who wrote the oped for the New York Times three months before that. Quote, it may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but americans should know that there are adults in the room, and we were trying to do whats right even when donald trump wont. We believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic. In white house exit interviews, former National Security adviser h. R. Mcmaster his colleagues are a detriment to the constitution or see themselves as rescuing the country. The white house is described as a place where higher loyalty is sacrificed. He beaked, we schemed, we backstabbed, some of us told us it was to protect the president , to deliver for the people. But usually it was for ourselves. And that was something john kelly was thinking about. Heres what he said to Bloomberg News this week. Nowhere in the oath of office that you take to support and defend the constitution of the United States, nowhere does it say you should be stabbing your colleague in the back so that you look better. You serve the nation, and if you take the oath seriously, youve got a job, and i want you to stay. The guardrails are gone according to the atlantic, all the aides who defied trump have long since departed, gone, too, where were the guard rails they erected to keep trump out of trouble. So trump has given his top staff a makeover replacing independentminded aides with acolytes. Which brings me to the question, are white house aides and officials serving the country or the president , or as don mcghan demonstrated this week, they doing a little bit of both . The president rails at him on twitter for not saying he didnt obstruct justice. Don income began is refusing to comply with the congressional subpoena to hand over documents related to the mueller investigation. With me, contributor to abovethelaw dow and Maria Hinojosa for npr, and derek hague who has broken bread with us over the transom the past few months, here in new york, msnbc correspondent. Allie, let me start with the curious case of don income began. What do you see of the back and forth, the way hes frustrated the president by not offering the statement that he wantsy to badly. Theyre not serving the country and not serving the president , they are serving themselves. All of these people, mcghan chief among them, petty people in it for their own particular policy objectives. Brett kavanaugh is here because of don mcghan. That is don mcghans fault that we have an alleged rapist on the Supreme Court. And hes willing to put up with everything, all the bad words that he was willing to put up are because he wanted this particular policy goal. Thats the same thing with tillerson, thats the same thing with jeff sessions. What they dont like is the way he does it. Everything that he actually does, these people are forment im sick of theyre all coming off out here like meatloaf, talking about i would do anything for trump but i wont do that bravo. But i wont do that mic drop. Beth, i read the question ontations, played the tape quotations, played the tape of rex tillerson, theres a sense once you leave that theres been a whitewashing over whats happened in the course of the administration. Were seeing that with don mcghan. To alis point before the meatloaf quotation cant top that. For sure. Don mcghan is somebody who had a profound impact on the policies the administration put forth hes right. Don mcghan came in, he was part of the team that had the federal society list of jurists who were going to be acceptable to conservatives to choose for the Supreme Court, you mentioned kavanaugh, but also the lower courts. It was part of mcghans list. In his own way he severaled the goal that he had set for himself. He wasnt going to just walk the plank for trump on his entire reputation. Hes been through the white house, in trumps mind betrayed the president , could cause problems down the line. You dont want to get in the cross hairs of the president of the United States. Help me understand, we know my friend across the aisle, distinguished gentleman, et cetera, et cetera, were seeing that in the back and forth over don mcghans part of the committees, his lawyer characterizing the documents from the president one issued cordially. How is he regarded on capitol hill in light of what beth and ali talked about, the work on capitol hill, him as a figure . By republicans, hes incredibly highly regarded especially by mitch mcconnell. Mcconnell doesnt say much if anything about the white house, but mcghan put out a statement saying this was a partner of his he was going to lose. Hes been the indispensable leader in confirming the judges. He will go down as a consequential figure in remaking the judiciary and will still be respected for that. You put him in a category maybe with only jim mattis as folks who left the white house, with their reputation at least among their own party largely intact. What happens next in terms of how he responds to the subpoenas and things of that nature i think will be interesting. I dont see him being a singular figure to defy about the barricade having the trump people testify, but he has receipts, right. The 30 hours that he spent with Robert Mueller, thats something that that information could come out whether or not he deigns to cooperate with congress at all. I think we will hear much more. I think mcgallon will remain a sing mcghan will remain a singular figure. I set it up, but youre describing don mcghan as still has connection to party. Who can tell me what the Republican Party stands for now beyond what trump says it stands for at any given moment . Im not saying that to be glib, but the policy positions has been a moving target. Don mcghan was a bush guy before he was a trump guy. Hes managed to stay in whatever the middle lane still is in traditional republicanism. And everyone else, not everyone else, but a number of people including in congress are trying to chase that. They dont know where they are supposed to stand. Youre a small government until youre not. Youre free trade until theres a tariff war. I go back to mattis, too, again, and again they had a better idea of where they stood and when it swung the other way, they were done. Maria, its not a policy tour but a reenvision tour. John kelly i get to talk about john kelly . You get to talk about john kelly. You going to sing . I dont know who the anchor is with Bloomberg Television but seriously, that interview was ridiculous. It happened, i should say, on the sidelines of Anthony Scaramuccis tour. And this was john kelly sitting on stage in a collegial, friendly fashion ridiculous with the person that he fired 11 days into the job. Anyway, im glad you asked about john kelly because i actually had him as i was preparing my notes, im like didnt men inside [ alarm ] the alarm went off. Gee, am i being listened to . Okay. Decent men inside, question mark. Like barr, question mark. Like john kelly, question mark. Because we all know now that john kelly is serving on the board of directors of an institutional that is going to be making money because of the housing of children. Putting them into the confinement. The confinement, the kidnapping some say. So this notion of decent people all, mcghan as well as kelly, they all know for me, i cant get beyond a couple of things. One, yes, the putting of babies in cages. Thats like beyond. Okay. And showing comfort to white supremacists, thats a problem for me. These guys were all okay with that. For me, im with ellie, i do not feel they are protecting the country. Theyre in it for themselves. Theyre writing books and getting big, fat, you know, advances. Out there talking. Its very disquieting when we have this happening in our country. And beth, youve covered politics for a while. This type of reinvention in the middle of an administration is a strange thing. We have never had an administration thats quite like this. Lets start from that. Always. The eternal caveat here. There was typically republican and democrat alike, the folks who come in to serve in the white house tend to do it with great reverence for the institution and for the three separate branches of government. At least they profess to. And yes, when the rubber meets the road, sometimes theres some fighting back. We saw that in the Obama Administration, the bush administration. But ultimately, both both of those presidencies and those before were saw themselves as part of an arc of history and theyre only occupying that address temporarily and want to respect the institution. We dont have that with President Trump. He is a singular president whos here to serve himself, for himself. And basically the people around him have had to bend to that reality. Thats why were seeing folks making a decision about how far they want to go in terms of embracing a policy that they might never have done before. You know, as republicans. Serving the will of one man. Thats what is this a king . Do we have a king here . Is that what this is about . We need to denormalize the people. The revolving door thats supposed to happen, they go to work for fortune 500 companies or go to work for big universities, then they write them thats where we have to start putting pressure on next. I dont want any of these people getting a job at harvard. That should that should cause protests at harvard when sean spicer shows up there. When don mcghan shows up there. That should be a problem for harvard. That should be a problem for koch if they want one of these people on the board of directors. The people who object to this administration have to not just subject when theyre in d. C. Not just object when theyre in d. C. , but wherever they are around the country. Tease the next segment. Well look at the Washington Post poem on how 20 investigations are being stymied. Talk that about how thats bee t erected. Its simple. They have just said no to everything that congress has asked of them. They are making democrats prove what power comes with controlling one branch of congress. It is a sufficient a magic bullet or not, and what happens if one branch of the government just says no to the others . What do we do . I mean, thats where we are right now. Theres not a lot of complicated tactics here. If you say no to everything, its a high wall to climb. Good tease. Coming up, nancy pelosi grappling with a divide in Political Climate that could penalize pursuing impeachment just as much as it could not. As the white house continues to stall, is the president making the democrats case on obstruction for them . Ction for m its not small. But its not just big either. Its the kind of big where youll never have to ask, should i scooch up . Its big that looks at a sunroof and wonders why it cant just be most of the roof. Its big thats better because we built it that way. The spacious, 121 cubic feet of cargo space ford expedition. Since my dvt blood clot i was thinking. 121 cubic feet of cargo space could there be another around the corner . And it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Whats around the corner could be surprising. Ask your doctor about eliquis. Did you know comcast business goes beyond fast with a gigspeed network. Complete internet reliability. Advanced voice solutions. Wifi to keep everyone connected. Video monitoring. Thats huge. Did you guys know we did all this stuff . No. Im not even done yet. Wow. Business tv. Cloud apps and support. Comcast business goes beyond at t. Start with internet and voice for just 59. 90 a month. Its everything a Small Business owner needs. Comcast business. Beyond fast. Trump is goading us to impeach him. Thats what hes doing. Every single day, hes just like taunting, taunting, taunting because he knows that it would be very divisive in the country. But he doesnt really care. We cant impeach him for political reasons, and we cant not impeach him for political reasons. I hadnt seen that snapping, but im into it. Welcome back to up. Impeachment continues to stymie democratic leadership. Is House Speaker nancy pelosi starting to change her tune . The Washington Post reports the Trump Administration is currently blocking more than 20 separate investigations, causing speaker policy to coin a new phrase. The president , she told robert costa, is selfimpeaching. Obstruction, obstruction, obstructi obstruction, ignoring subpoenas and the rest. This after voting along party lines to hold william barr into contempt of congress after refusing to hand over the full report. And jerry nadler, chair of the committee, rights that it is up to congress to determine if it, quote, warrants them taking any further steps on the check on the executive branch. That includes whether to approve articles of impeachment with respect to the president or any other administration official. One indication congress would remain saying they are sarply divided. Heres a quote from the New York Times, as the wows and congress institute the showdown, President Trump and his team are trying to call what they see as the democrats bluff. The message put up or shut up, impeach or move on. How is this issue playing out . I was struck by how quickly the phrase constitutional crisis migrated to nancy pelosi. It seems retroactively. Its on the campaign trail, too. It started with Elizabeth Warren. She was the first of the major candidates to call for impeachment. Now a number of other candidates are. Beto orourke, who i spent a lot of time covering, says this has to be done, there has to be some accountability for the president. But if youre from one of the majority maker districts here, getting in a fight about President Trump is essentially playing on his turf. Thats kinds of what this comes down to. We could all agree that there would be nothing President Trump would like more than to have the entire country watch hearings about him for 30 or 40 days talking about him all the time. It would make him the absolute center of the political unive e universe, where he wants to be. That is not where democrats want to be. Its not how they won the house. Its not how most think theyll win the white house. Politically, its a mess. And pelosi is in this interesting position here. She will ultimately be the person who has to pull the trigger. She has said for a long time you cannot go down the road unless the American People are with you. So far she doesnt believe that they are. Beth, im interested in impeachment as a tool, as a necessary tool. I mentioned this piece in the Washington Post and you see each of the inquiries hitting a wall. There were those saying impeachment is the way around this. This could end up in the courts if you dont go the impeachment route it could take a long time. As lawmakers keep hitting a wall, that wall dividing them from the white house, not getting documents or personalities up to capitol hill. It becomes something that becomes more and more necessary i would say. To garretts point, pelosis in a tough spot. She has said repeatedly that she doesnt want to go this route. She said the president is not worth it. She says shown little sign that shes thinking it. Shes repeatedly reminds everyone that the congress is a coequal branch of the government and congress do what it wants and get away with it. She cant say both things and continue on the parallel track. If congress is indeed a coequal branch of government and this white house is thwarting it at every turn, shes got to do something to step up and protect the institution. On the other hand, she knows that it is deaf out there to press for impeachment. There is no support for it. You look at polling after polling showing us that. Democrats on the trail want to talk about health care, want to talk about education, about the economy. They dont want to talk about impeachment on and on. Its theres really a no win at this point for her. I want to point one out for the institutionalists. If i had a bottle of beer i would do it. Beth is laying out the contrast. You have institutionalists worried about the politics. If are an institutionalist you cannot worry in that way. You hold up the constitution, point to article one, you say this is the law, and you go forward. The majority of the country is actually more people are in favor of impeachment than are opposed to impeachment. Yes, its a slim majority, yes, we live in a divided country. And i elected the democrats to be my voice in that divide. I didnt elect democrats to sit on the sideline. The republicans are clowning us. The republicans are clowning the Democratic Party because as you say, garrett, all trump does is say no, no, no, what are you going to do. The republicans on the congressional economies are saying, yall are trying to conduct impeachment hearings without having the stones to impeach the president. Right now, the democrats are getting all of the blowback for trying to impeach the president without trying to impeach the president. Can i ask a kenn a technic question. Theres talk about impeachment and then the stands alone and removal the process you mean. Right, thats where it would go. He would be impeached in the house, and that would be the end of it. There arent the 20 republican votes that you need. I think when were asking regular citizens what they think about impeachment, theyre jumping straight to remove. Do we think the president should be removed from office which is not what impeachment is. Impeachment is investigative process that needs to start. Think about all of these people, you were talking we were talking about mcghan. In the previous segment you were talking about other people like all of these cohen, you were talking about. All of these people need to be brought back to testify in public. Impeachment is a process. People are jumping ahead to the conclusion. Ill say one more point, like good because i want to say something. You go. No, no. Go. Susan collins, john cornyn, mcmcconnell, all of these people are running for reelection. I want them on record as to whether or not they support the president or not. So impeachment, impeachment is about abuse of power, right. And i agree with you. I think that a lot of people just think impeachment, hes going to be removed. No. Its a process, right. My question is, so is again, im sorry to go back to this, but sometimes i have to continue to say this. Is it abuse it an abuse of power taking babies and putting them into cages . Is it an abuse of power is that an Impeachable Offense . Were talking about impeachment within this one small construct. But actually what this president has done, if we look from his own words, has been a continual abuse of power. For me, i i understand the difficulties of the political conversation. But again, i became a citizen, right. I i had to, you know, lift up swear to the oath. Im like, do your job, members of congress. This is your job. I know its scary, we dont whats going to happen. Thats when its like to live in a democracy. Lets keep it a democracy do. Your job, do your accountability. Standing on the family separation thing, its interesting you bring that up. Thats what pelosi and the House Democrats wanted to do when they took over the majority. They didnt want to talk about all the things about how trump became the president and the unseemly things about that side, they wanted to go after him on specific policies. They wanted to do big hears on family separation. They wanted to do big hearings on all of the controversial things he has done since he has been in office and prosecute that case, not the sort of backward looking case of how he got the job in the first place. They need to be saying that. Now you have the wall across pennsylvania avenue thats stopping from all oversight. Lastly to you, beth. Can i mind a final point . All of the major polling shows trump at an alltime high approval rating. There is working for him. The fight, the standup, hes up to 48 perce in the government tracking poll. Nancy pelosi knows it as well. President trump directing his ire at john bolton, his National Security adviser, next. National security adviser, nt. Ex its tough to quit smoking cold turkey. So chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. 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John bolton, the president s National Security advisor, according to the Washington Post the president wants to get him into a war, a comment hes joked but in the past but now is in more serious terms. John hudson, National Security reporter joins us now. Help us understand the tensions between the president s advise oh Foreign Policy. The target is on john bolton at this point. What does that mean in real terms . David, the president s feeling boxed in right now. He feels misled. He feels that his advisers led him to believe that the ouster of Nicolas Maduro and the opposition of juan guaido would be much easier. He feels aides such as National Security adviser john bolton, marco rubio, the senator whose office has bun running a lot of the policies from the initial stages, led him to believe that this could be done quickly. And what weve seen is thats not the case. This has taken a long time. Ousting dictators who have the backing of large countries such as russia and china would be quite difficult and drag on. John, what you and your colleagues highlight is the tension between a president who ran on not being interventionalist, he didnt want to get involved in conflicts and crises overseas, and a National Security adviser who is, i think its safe to say, made his career doing that. Trying to get involved, trying to export american policy to other countries overseas. How sustainable is this . You write in the piece that his job is safe at this point. But it is a real tension, isnt it . Absolutely. And you know, you saw the president acknowledge it this week. He said that he has to temper john bolton. And he said, isnt that surprising that im the one causing one. My advisers to have push back on him. Obviously they have a different Foreign Policy doctrine. John bolton has been on the harder edge of some of the more aggressive Foreign Policy viewpoints in the american system. President trump has long put forth the notion that the United States should not be getting bogged down in conflicts around the world that dont have a direct impact on u. S. National security. Weve heard of the corollary, a phrase thrown around. Two years into the administration, how coherent is the Foreign Policy strategy . Certainly there are members of congress who have been pushing for intervention in venezuela for some time here. How confused are lawmakers with the Foreign Policy direction of this white house . How crystalline clear is that . Almost entirely. This goes back to what the Republican Party is standing for in congress. Its particularly challenging on Foreign Policy. You have a company that built itself around exporting american ideals abroad, in the john bolton tradition. But also strong alliances being part of nato. I mean, pushing even for the transpacific partnership, an economic partnership, but in a lot of ways one that has National Security implications to it. All of that is gone now. And so the effort of republicans when they control both houses of congress to try to hold on to some of these traditional alliances has really been pushed by this president. You will have a very hard time finding anyone in congress who will defend the president s position on rogue states, on his relationships with putin and and his love letters to kim jongun and his attitude toward turkey, for example. It is as challenging as anything for members of congress. And this is a tricky one, too, because democrats who control the house dont have a lot ofnisment here. The Foreign Policy is still the president s show. Its not clear that anyone in his Administration Knows which direction its going. I see youve written regime change is hard. Can you read upside down . Is that domestic that youre talking about . You know, how do people feel as were talking about Foreign Governments intervening in our own elections. How do we feel. And so when people are talking about, well, we thought it was going to be done quickly in venezuela, its like were talking about human beings here. And this kind of notion as it has always been that latin america is, you know, the neighbor that you can just come and trample on. So it is very complicated. My response to this was, you know, trump came out saying, oh, this whole thing about maduro and it was supposed to happen quickly, and i dont want to go there. When did that happen actually . After his 90minute phone call with putin. It was in his phone call with putin. Putin said, yo, by the way, remember, hands off venezuela. Its mine. Away. And trump can understand that. Oh, okay, its yours. We got it. We got it. So it is but this is the way were the United States is talking about its intervention in latin america it doesnt feel good. Last question to you, john hudson. The week begins, victor orban, the head of hungary meeting with the president. Help us understand why hes been invited at this time. The president made clear that he is very interested in reaching out to populist rightwing leaders. He sees a potential kinship. And this is a stark change from the Obama Administration which really tried to express he made clear the changes were in opposition to the values that the u. S. Has. I think its going to be an interesting meeting. You know, the president likes to speak on the fly. Theres going to be a lot of, you know, eastern and Central Europe watchers who are very nervous, who have been opposed to this regime that they feel have trampled and done a lot of democratic backsliding. So i think its going to be interesting, and i think its impossible to predict where its going to go. Victor orban, the head of a liberal democracy coming to washington. John hudson will be covering. It pressure the time. Thanks. Next, our producers are listening to the latest sunday shows. You can stay tuned to msnbc. Intelligence Committee Chairman adam schiff explaining how the Trump Administration may be stretching the definition of executive privilege. Well have part of that interview coming up. E. Eg well have part of that interview coming up. music throughout . To give you the alrprotein you needin ensure max protein. With less of the sugar you dont grunti g ill take that. cheering 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar ensure. For strength and energy. I swibecause they let metual, customize my insurance. And as a fitness junkie, i customize everything, like my bike, and my calves. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. [spanish recording] so again, using para, youre talking about something that is for someone. Pretty good. Could listening to audible inspire you to start something new . Download audible and listen for a change. Change has many faces. Names youll never know. The brighteyed, the brave, the visionaries. Where challenges exist, youll find them. At citi, we empower people who are out to change the world. Because tomorrow belongs to those who welcome it with open arms. Citi. Welcome whats next welcome back to up. Moments ago house sbeps chairman adam schiff was addressing the stonewalling of congressional investigations by the white house. Take a listen. The Trump Administration has decided to say a blanket no, no to any oversight whatsoever, no witnesses, no documents, nothing. Claim executive privilege over things that it knows there is no basis for, theres no executive privilege over the hundreds of thousands of documents regarding events that tax place before donald trump was president. You cant have a privilege, an executive privilege when youre not the executive. They know vast categories are inapplicatible so theyre stonewalling. Im turn to the lawyer to my left to talk about this. We saw the white house invoking this during the course of the week. How ironclad is it . Hes making a distinction saying that there has to be a reasonable case for it to be executive privilege, otherwise its stone wouling. Stone walling. Your take . Hot garbage. Its a terrible argument and wont hold up in court. Once it gets to court thats where the democrats need to move faster. Thats where the entire country needs to move faster. One of the most important stories this week to me is judge meets mayeda, what trump is suing to stop his Accounting Firm from complying with congressional subpoenas. Its another terrible legal argument. Ma mayeda said were going to do it live, were going to hold the hearing on tuesday. Im going to judge on the merits. That is a serious fast track. We need to be fast tracking all of these terrible airports through the court system. Well say, oh, justice moves slowly. I have a piece coming out to looks if we treat trump like a normal president , justice moves slowly. If we Treat Company like a normal criminal president , like what we did with nixon lets. Forget, the Nixon White House had the injunction against the pentagon papers that came out on the 14th of june. The Supreme Court ruled against nixon by the 30th of june. That is the speed that we need the courts to be handled these terrible legal arguments. The conversation, beth, focuses semantics and constitutional crisis is the latest phrase being parsed on the right and the left. And senator cKamala Harris was talking about her sense wherever we are when it comes to the state of this union on state of the union. Lets listen to what Kamala Harris had to say. Im seeing a failure to appreciate the importance of testifying before congress in a way thats truthful. Yes, its fair to say that we are looking at a crisis not only of confidence but potentially a constitutional crisis. Never has that show been so aptly named as we talk about where we are in this country. People have been calling it a constitutional lahardball, what your sense of the unity that the branches dont seem as coequal as theyre supposed to be . We are in a constitutional crisis by virtue of what you said. If theres no no comity, with a t. Its inarguable that were in one. It doesnt mean magic things happen and it comes down from the sky to solve the problem. To ellies point, the difference between the nixon era and now is that the issue of whether the the judiciary, the courts were politicized wasnt it wasnt the same sort of thought. The Supreme Court ruled 90 against president nixon. Now with our you know, the beliefs have been instilled across the board florithat judg your team or the other guys team, theres no sense that the judiciary could even resolve this. You tell me, are we to the point where we think theres a judiciary that get to the bottom of this and do it quickly . No. You on my scribble, scribble, another of my skribls, i was like federal judges, i need to know more. Because now lime like, wow, im smart, im ape journalist, but if you ask me to speak specifically about federal judges and their position, im kinds of like, i dont know a lot. Thats where this is headed. Thats where this is headed. A problem for before we say that, i want to say the other thing here, it got washed out happy mothers day. It says imperial presidency. I mean, is this really what were talking about in authoritariani authoritarianism. Im thinking to the lead up of what happens when he doesnt leave office after he loses and the House Speaker speaking frankly about that. I mean, we have to start the problem is we cannot normalize it. All yours. Im going to leave the imperial president for a second. When i was covering congress i would talk to democratic lawmakers about there all the time. The Democratic Party as a whole forgets that the judiciary exists until theres a Supreme Court vacancy. It is not an issue top of mind of democratic voters at all. All the while the waves as theyre described by the white house it comes to the context of roe v. Wade, and thats almost it. The judiciary disappearance for democratic voters. Its just not the same for republicans. 2016 is a perfect example. Mitch Mcconnell Holding the merit garland seat home because conservative voters, im talking oldschool conservative voters, absolutely care about the judiciary and not just the Supreme Court all the way down. And democrats come to this late at their peril. Come back to don mcghan, i guess. Your last comment. Yeah. They might do it again. I think obviously i think this needs to be more of an election issue for democrats. But to really try to answer beths question, i do think that more often than not there are institutionalists still in the judiciary. Trump has stacked the courts. He hasnt fully taken them over yet. Even when you look at the Supreme Court, i still think theres a lot of hope that a john roberts wont completely debase himself for this administration. We dont know that, but thats still a chance. Youre hopeful . I i have elie hopeful. Always hopeful. Elie hopeful. And Robert Barnes of the post sat down with john paul stevens, 99 years old, but he talks about what youre describing, the faith in the judiciary to handle that. This week coming out this week. Pete guj stapunitive damage starting his Pete Buttigieg starting his campaign and questions on whether the honeymoon phase is ending. Neymo. Good, cuz im a little worried about my information getting out. Whys that . [bird speaking] my social is 8 7 5 dash okay, i see. [bird laughing] somebody thinks its hilarious. Free Social Security alerts from discover. Somebody thinks its hilarious. Is that for me . Mhm aaaah nooooo. 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These divisive lines of thinking have even entered into the consciousness of my own party. When were told we need to choose between supporting an auto worker and supporting a trans woman of color without stopping to think about the fact that sometimes the auto worker is a trans woman of color and she definitely needs all the support that she can get. The mayor has faced whats being characterized as a diversity issue in his campaign. He told a crowd in south carolina, quote, i need your help shaping the base of supporters we are building to not only help this campaign but to hate also that it to people who perhaps dont look like you. And last night from caesars palace, may 10a how real is it how much are they considering it . I think the clearest evidence is the fact that he said what he said last night. The campaign thatt hes tryingo sprinkle all of his remarks regardless of the venue, comments that are specific to the needs of the africanamerican community. Theyve been making a real point to bringg on staff that are diverse and that show that hes making a commitment to address this despite the fact that he cant change the fact that at the end of the day he is, you know, a white man. Elie, how easy is to put a frame on a Campaign Like this . In other words, hes saying the right things, how much can he shape or change the campaign . Is he saying the right things . Right nowinri hes basically to cruise screaming, i love black people like into a phone. Im glad that he had lunch with al sharpton. Thats great. Al sharp to be is not the king of black people. Its important that as we get to the 2020 primary there are democrats running for president that maybe they need black and brown people on their side. Maybe they need to have policies that speak to the needs of black and brown people. If i hear one more white guy tell me i cant talk about identity politics when the specific problems facing my community and communities of color are so different than the problems facing white communities. Though dont have a pick is plplan a specific plan or program to address police brutality, to address daca, criminal justice reform, okay. So yeah, the honeymoon the honeymoon is over amongst white people. But the honeymoon never started amongst people of color. Beth, how much of an outlier is he . Hes not an outlier. Thats a huge problem for at democrats. The point you make, particularly black women are the heart and soul of the democratic electorate. They are going to choose the next nominee. If a candidate does not haveoi relationship with that community, they are not going to win. We sawno that with bernie sande int 2016. He perhaps could have beat Hillary Clinton if he had more of a relationship to the black community that had h buibuilt t over the decades in public life. It hasnt gotten any better for him. Elizabeth warren is struggling with bringing black people, too divert ill defer to garrett about beto orourke. Its the only thing that matters. Its one of the reasons thatat biden is doing so well because of the support of the black people. Garrett, help us understand how big an issue it is for beto. It is a real challenge for the white male candidates. I can speak as a white man myself, a you would like to believe that you write on the issues it doesnt matter. But thatsis not for us to say. I think orourke has the same prosecutor. Orourke made himself a National Figure with the viral moment that he had defending africanamerican football playersca right to kneel durin the faminational anthem. He had gang buster numbers in houston, texas. He was popular there. Hesul got credibility with his panic itvoters, too. Te hispanic voters, too. Hes there, but not therethere. I think biden is the Holding Place for voters. R thanks for gets up ea ting. Theres soccer to be played, and im up against a hard out there were more notes, david. There were more notes. You cant just eat tacos. Follow maria on instagram. Shell be going through the notes. A treat to have all of you here. Great to have you here in new york. I premier League Soccer is coming up next followed by more news here on msnbc starting at noon. Tech at safelite autoglass, we know sooner or later. Every chip will crack. This daughter was Home Visiting when mom saw a chip in her windshield. Mom honey is that a chip . Tech they wanted it fixed fast so they brought it to us. Mom hi. Tech with our inshop chip repair service, we can fix it the same day. Guaranteed. Plus with most insurance a safelite chip repair is no cost to you. Mom really . Drive safely. All right. Acoustic music singers safelite repair, safelite replace. Im workin to make each day a little sweeter. To give every idea the perfect soundtrack. To make each journey more elegant. 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