Transcripts For MSNBCW Up With David Gura 20190316

Congress has the freedom to pass this resolution and i have the duty to veto it. Paul manaforts attorneys pleaing for a pardon. Up with me, a contributing opinion writer for the new york times. Williams a political strategist and host of sundays civics on sirius fm. Clint watts, a former fbi special agent, now Msnbc National Security analyst. We start this hour with new zealand and the worst mass shooting in history. A man attacked people at two mosques. It was live streamed on social media. 49 are dead and dozens of men, women and children remain hospitalized in that city. We expect another update from new Zealand Police later today as the investigation continues. The man who has been charged appeared in court yesterday. He did not speak, but he did make a white power gesture in court. We start off this morning in wellington, new zealand, the capitol of the country and scott brown, the former senator from massachusetts. He joins us by phone. Thank you for joining us. Get us up to speed from what you are hearing on where this investigation stands. Well certainly get that update later. First of all, good morning to you, your panel and viewers. Certainly came out of left field. The police and other authorities have done a thorough job trying to put together the facts and understand what happened and why. A lot of questions to be asked and answered. New zealand still in shock, as i said, it came out of left field. This is not a norm or normal thing that happened here before. Its certainly having a very special effect. Im not sure it is the effect the perpetrator thought he was going to have because it seems to be, where im going, theres an amazing outpouring of solidarity, love and affection for the Muslim Community and there seems to be very, very powerful vigils and other shows of solidarity around the country. I thank you for taking the time to talk to us by phone. I imagine you have been on the phone an awful lot over the 24, 36, 48 hours talking to the white house as well. What has your message been to the president of the United States . I deal through the situation room. The president made it clear, whatever assistance the Prime Minister and her team need from us, he is ready, able and willing to offer that assistance and we have had communications from the Vice President to the deputy Prime Minister and then other agency heads have been communicating. It really is one of what do you need . Let us know. We will be here to help. Thats the same with a lot of countries in the region, australia, where the perpetrator was from, they are doing anything to provide any and all information regarding this guy and how he did what he did. That question of what do you need is something the president asked the Prime Minister. This is what she said about her response in a press conference yesterday. He asked what support the United States could provide. My message was sympathy and love for all muslim communities. Its been a couple years since you traded massachusetts for new zealand. How do you do what the Prime Minister of that country is asking for . First of all, i have a lot of respect for the Prime Minister. I have been here almost two years and had numerous interactions with her in the stretch and just the emotional challenges that not only she, but the rest of the country are going through, i cant imagine. How do you do that . It started here almost immediately. Gayle and i went to a local mosque in our hometown and met with leaders, laid flowers down, met with other kiwis and muslims in the area to leave flowers. We spent a good, 1520 minutes talking and, you know, getting to know these people. Thats happening everywhere. You have vigils happening. You have reach outs to the muslim communities. As i said earlier in the show, i think the reverse effect is happening than what the perpetrator expected. Theres a tremendous outpouring of love and attention to getting to know the members of every community. Last question here, theres been a focus on White Nationalism, the beliefs this man was not adhering to. The president was asked to comment on those yesterday. I think its a small group of people with very, very serious problems, i guess. You are on the ground there. I wonder what people are saying about that phenomenon, about the beliefs this man held and holds. Theres a lot to be learned about the perpetrator and what his beliefs were. You have a railing manifesto that had comments of a host of things. Not a lot made a lot of sense. That being said, any form of extremism here in new zealand, as the Prime Minister referenced is not welcome. I agree with her. Its not welcome anywhere in the world. These types of actions, this is one single individual who had some type of grudge or agenda. He wanted to go kill people. You saw the video. You saw the systematic, nonchalant nature this kid, this guy walking through the mosque and shooting people without any remorse, whatsoever. That is cowardly. Quite frankly, you know, i hope i never see or hear of him again. You cant imagine how different this country is right now. Its really a shame. The beauty of new zealand is the fierce independent people, resilient and they will come out stronger than they came into it. I thank you for your time. I know its early there. Waiting for the press conference that takes place at 4 30 eastern in the afternoon, 9 30 new zealand time. Thank you, bye bye. The manifesto is some 74 pages in length. Msnbc is not quoting directly. His writing suggests the White Nationalist ideas behind violence and attempted violence influenced him deeply. He was inspired by the mass shooting in charleston, South Carolina at the Methodist Church which a white man shot and killed nine africanamericans. The shooting in pittsburgh where a man killed 11 members of a congregation. We have been trying to reckon whats happening in christchurch. It builds on something he tweeted in the aftermath. Quote, we are dealing with angry, disaffected men, mostly white, who find purpose and Community Within these extremist groups who give them a hee ree narrative through violent ideology of white supremacist. Getting rid of the rest of us is like white isis. Lets start there. Its great to have you here with us this saturday morning. You elaborate on that a bit. If you look at counterterrorism experts, the dna is almost the same. The pathway toward radicalization. Anger toward men and woman who find a community and shared purpose, gives them validation and a place in life. Its through a violent ideology. Sometimes its radical. The end goal is the same, a romantic ideal of saving civilization. Theres no gray area, us versus them. The heros narrative is important. This shooter, just like dylan roof, just like the shooter in synagogue, like the quebec shooter that killed six in the mosque, they all think they are the hero. They are the protagonist. They are the paul reveres warning the rest of us. Im willing to do what it takes to save our civilization. When it comes to White Supremacy, this manifesto, its based on a fear of White Supremacists, the White Genocide fear, the replacement theory, meaning jews are head of the kabul. They use immigrants and savages to overpop late western civilization and western lands, they are going to weaken us. We have to attack them so we can have glory. I will say one thing because people arent focusing on this. He cited things White Nationalists use. The battle of 1683. Its always used by White Nationalists. They say europe staved the empire. Another battle, battle of acre, 12th century, when the christians went against and retook jerusalem against the muslims. If you look at the theme, this is a global infrastructure, which has been mainstreamed from the top down. Elected officials and right wing groups. Talk about it a little bit. Theres been a focus on social media and agree this catered to that. Sure. This long and winding trail, paved with ugliness went back a long way. This is somebody that knew how to use social media. We have seen it with groups like isis. What we are seeing now is on the right wing we are seeing White Nationalism play out. Here is the difference. If you look at al qaeda or isis, its a central body, a network and they inspire followers. In the west, it happens reverse. Inspired followers Network Online and builds into this infrastructure he is talking ability. We know this is more serious because the frequency and pace is picking up. When the pace picks up, that means that network is tighter and this network is mostly online and in social media. They are citing each other id logically. They are playing to each others attacks. This, oftentimes cascades terrorism and inspires others to begin acting. You are seeing this pace quicken and pick up across the United States, europe down to new zealand. You prosecuted terrorism cases. This was a lone wolf, he did it on his own, he was crazy. Lets talk about the degree to which rhetoric matters. What you hear from the president and other government officials. To your point, how does it affect those waiting in murky waters and living in the mainstream and processing what we are hearing . I think the take away is, our words have consequences, the words have consequences. Whether its islamic extremists that are radicalizeed by fiery sermons on the internet or people radicalized by political leaders, we have to take it seriously and consider through the meaning behind the radical ideas, not by radicals ton internet, but political leaders. Those have measurable consequences. This is the same way these islamic teenagers were radicalizeed on the internet in years past. Now they are radicalized by their own political leaders. Back to clint on taking it seriously, companies have come under criticism here, governments under criticism as well. How do you take it more seriously when you look at facebook and google who had trouble pulling this video off yesterday. How do you bring it in and get it under control. 4chan and 8chan is the place to go. If you want to put something awful online, go to those places. The second participant, why do they have so much trouble getting those videos down . Theres a community, a Network Online that continues to reupload, reupload. How do you stop that over time . It takes days to take it down. Its a very difficult phenomenon. We got ahead of it and on to it through al qaeda and iraq with youtube videos through today when its islamic extremism. We have not figured it out. What is that . No one can define it. What is a video that supports political or social message versus a move to violence and move to action . I think one thing to look at is why did that video keep popping up online . There is a huge Online Community that puts that up. Talk about the universality of it. When we live in brooklyn, an attack on synagogue, swastikas drawn on the walls there. We have seen it here. What do you make of this . How do you see the lines being drawn . First, i want to take a step back. Having these conversations, its talked about this one individual, this lone person lone wolf. Lone wolf as if there isnt this online. We have known this. People from marginalized groups, black women, black folks in general, all have said there is a problem of these White Supremacists gathering together and targeting us online, targeting people offline. We have been saying this for a very, very, very long time. Its only when Something Like an instance unfortunately, a mass incidence at this time that people start paying attention. Oh, what happened . Why didnt you see this . If you listened to people of color and listened about this rise in extremism particularly and the use of social media and how we are targeted online and how its connected to extremism, we could have a greater understanding of how we are to tackle it. I just want to respond to President Trump and scott brown when they said its a very few number. Fbi said the number one threat in america is the white supremacist terrorism. The number one plots in this country are domestic white supremacist. In charleston when you have kkk and White Supremacists chant, the jews will not replace us, does that sound familiar that thats what they said. The president responds saying very fine people, both sides. However, when its a muslim suspect, Georgia State university did research saying theres seven times more Media Coverage when its a muslim suspect. Donald trump speaks. When its a white suspect, its individual, lone wolf. We have seen the infrastructure. One thing, last quick, october, synagogue shooter, he says i want to punish them. They are bringing refugees. They are going to invade us. Im going to save my people before they invade us. 2018 midterms. Jewish billionaire is funding the caravan bringing rapists and middle eastern people to invade us. Who used the term yesterday . Donald trump. Well have more on the attack in new zealand coming up. President trump comes up in the offense issuing a veto. How people are breaking ranks with him, next. Breaking ranks with him, next mean something. Letters earned in backwoods, high hills and steep dunes. But somewhere along the way, suvs became pretenders not pioneers. But you never forgot the difference and neither did we. 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Congress has the freedom to pass this resolution and i have the duty to veto it and im very proud to veto it. President trump sending a message to the 12 Senate Republicans who sided with their democratic colleagues to block the president s emergency declaration. Ill let them know when theres pressure. When i need your vote, im going to let you know. I didnt need the vote, we know its going to be a veto and they are not going to be able to override. He seems confident. Nancy pelosi says that will be put to a vote in the house in ten days. What is this week that began with the yemen resolution, ends with that piece of legislation pushing back on the National Emergency and this veto. Is there more of this, do you think . Does it symbolize breaking of ranks . It symbolizes an election is coming up and people are positioning themselves, doing some political theater that they can go back in their particular districts and say, we tried. Its basically, i think, theater and theatrics, not only on the individual members, looking at what districts they represent, you can see that very clearly. But, also, for the president himself and also wanting to look like he is fighting for, you know, the people that sent him to washington in the first place. Right . So, now, you can make the argument, not having this that he is just doing more of the same. Hes filled and appointed people from the swamp in the administration and continuing the same in terms. Now, we are getting to the point where we are getting closer to an election and slashing things in the budget to talk about how we are reducing, you know, our debt. Im fighting to protect us from the invasion that is coming from caravans. This is all theater to set up as we go into the election and they are already in the ground. These are the things im fighting for. That is what the base he said, even in his language of the people who sent me here. The americans who voted for me. Hes not talking about what he is doing overall for the country. He is specifically talking about the people who sent me here, who voted for me, thats who im fighting for. You have democrats saying this is laying the groundwork or adding to the groundwork for the legal challenges they are going to have. Help us understand how they dove tail. There are serious legal challenges. We have seen challenges already brought in court by a variety of states. This is really New Territory for us. There is not a clear precedent as to how these things are going to play it. It will be an interesting way to see how the courts are going to act as a backstop to what the president is trying to do. You have, on one hand, the democrats have the opportunity to act and try to stop it. The courts are going to provide for a really interesting, sort of safety net. We have seen it time and time again throughout the administration of courts being there to step in. Hold off to see if what we are doing is legal. We are going to see interesting argue mlts play out. What were you watching as this played out. There was a daily opinion newsletter who said tom till indianapolis, senator of hypocrisy, north carolina. It was two weeks ago. I support trumps vision on border security, but i would vote against the emergency. How much could change in two weeks time . Why say anything if you are going to turn around and do the opposite . Its just dumb and makes you look like you can be totally molded. If you are the president , he wrote it and i made him fold out of nowhere. Come on. I mean im just astounded, benefit sasse being another one. Do something. Well, its for the party. You can ride the Party Straight into the wall come next election. Who supports this . Whether its guns, you know, and weapons. Broad based americans support is not there. The wall, overall, not there. This coming budget that is going in, one of the dumbest budgets i have seen in life. We are going to cut, cut Natural Science foundation. This is the future. China owns us and our intelligence. All these things. What is the plan, just to get a wall . What is this really about . This will hurt republican districts as much as democratic districts. Ultimately, is that 30 of america worth continuing to coddle and build support around . When you look at what was happening yesterday, he was there with Kristjen Neilson and the attorney general. He seems more comfortable having this fight on those terms. Its hard work making it National Emergency. Reality tv show president. Hes more comfortable in front of the camera. Look, this is the bargain republicans made for two years. They are going to ride and die with him. Tom tillis, wins my spineless man of the week award. Lindsey graham, i will give it to ben sasse and ted cruz. If i go against him, he is going to batter me. I have an election coming up. I need my base. Thats why graham does it for South Carolina. He goes without the president s support, im going to lose. Ted cruz, same thing. Every one of them knows, theres no crisis at the border. They know theres no National Emergency. Every one of them knows trump is the first president to use a National Emergency to bypass congress. He went all in with the wall. There was a blue wave tsunami. He did a 35day shutdown of the government, longest ever. The economy suffering, americans suffering, the Republican Party is splintering. Hes going to stick with his base. In the next hour, the chairman of the Democratic Caucus is going to join us and fighting to overturn the veto and National Emergency. He is going to join us here in new york. Beto orourke makes it official, he is running for president. First, the Campaign Launch video. Hi, im beto orourke and im excited. Thats it. Im just excited. Oh, yeah, im also running for president of the United States. I love the United States. I love running. In fact, i literally ran eight mooils today. Im a compassionate head nod turned into a person. Because the truth is, i care. I care so much. Fidelity is redefining value. Introducing zero account fees for brokerage accounts. And zero minimums to open an account. At fidelity, those zeros really add up. Maybe ill win, saved by zero oh no. Your new boss seems cool, but she might not be sweatpants cool. Not quite ready to face the day . Thats why were here with free hot breakfast. Book at hampton. Com for our price match guarantee. Hampton by hilton. Book at hampton. Com for our price match guarantee. What is that . Uh mine, why . Its just that its. Lavender. Yes it is, its for men but i like the smell of it laughs this is up, im david gura. Beto orourke is spending a third day in iowa, wrapping up his first trip, ever, to the hawk eye state. Im going to run for even, listen to everybody and try to answer every question and listen to the great suggests that come from the communities i visit. Hes going to visit each and every county. Hes speaking to supporters at coffee bars. Orourke rented a minivan, which he is driving himself across the state. He picked up where the failed senate bid left off. The style wasnt new, the setting was. The setting is resinating with crowds in iowa. Here is what one voter had to say to my colleague, garrett hague. I have been coming to these since 1984 and i have never seen a more dynamic speaker than he was and i have never seen this many people gather since Walter Mondale was out there on a hay wagon years ago. Eric joins us, a Senior Editor for new york monthly. Eric, let me read one line for you from your piece, if i could and i want to focus on authenticity. Orourke is more than a decade into his career and is a fresh faced outsider. He is 45 and comes across as a decade younger, a toothy, boyish smile and the me tall lichl of a 16yearold in the midst of a growth spurt. How is he going to keep that authenticity. As you watched him campaign in texas, went to 200plus counties, how did he hold on to who he was as the campaign continued . I think it starts with the way he speaks. You know, he will give a speech that seems to be off the top of his head, you know, as you listen to more of them, you understand they are constructed of parts that recur, of course, like every politician. I think hes very good at connecting with audiences and making them feel he is speaking directly to them. Thats part of it. As you mentioned, the way he travels. He really does drive the truck or minivan. He has a small team with him. He comes in, hell take selfies with every last voter and talk to them while hes being pulled away by his field people. So, yeah, i think all that comes across. He says he doesnt prepare for any speech that he gives. We are talking about fractured speeches coming together and the repetition. What are you listening for . Over the last few days, he had to talk about parts of his platform, impeachment, green energy. It seems this is gestating in realtime. Oh, the kennedyesque white male who can make us feel good and, you know, energize about what is to come. Never mind that they have detail of policy or prescription for it. I think because people are looking for, like someone, i think i said on my show before, gives a tingle up our spine, that we can believe in. Thats what people, given a large field, people resort to, well, how can someone make me feel . What im looking for and i understand this is completely different because i work in this space as well is the content, how you can go across the country and win, in particular districts. People like to think this is one big election. Its not. Its a number of small elections across the country. So, im looking for the content. Im looking at how, in his speeches, he speaks the same in different audiences. I do think he talks a lot about different issues, whether the audience is predominantly people of color or white at all. So, thats, you know, a plus. Something we have criticized, saberny sanders about saying, but also Elizabeth Warren has. What differences with 20, soon to be 30 people in the race. Ha are we looking for . At the end of the day, voters who dont have the benefit of knowing peoples detailed history and things like that. They are going to also look for that charisma, look for theres someone i can believe in and, if media attaches on to it as well and describing him as hes just like us and he eats hamburgers and hes you listen to it. Listen and take selfies. That all contributes to people narrowing down the candidates and who will best lead. Lets turn to our kennedyesque fan. I dont think anyones ever how well does that message translate to iowa or elsewhere in the country . How difficult is it going to be what he pioneered and do it elsewhere in the country . Im curious. He lost to the most hated man in the senate. When you look at the bigger picture, he is great at getting people excited and commences 18 months of 90second social media videos of passion. But you get nervous. When i talk to people from texas who were debating, they said i will vote for cruz because i know what he stands for. I might not like him, but i know what he will vote for. When i watch orourke, i dont know what ill get. Ill take a mannequin like bernie, a weekend at bernies. Ill take any of those sayings. When looking at orourke, i go, man, when it gets really bad, am i going to turn to you or are you going to turn to me and say what should i do . I get nervous about that. That doesnt i wonder, when we get to the national scene, if that will play out the same way. As he spoke to students on the campaign trail, he framed the coming election as an ethical moral choice. His son is eulisez. Help us understand the politics. How does he see himself in the history of american politics . Well, i know how he sees himself in the history of politics. I think we are going to find out in the history of american politics. I read, like you did, the vanity fair profile with president ial run on his biography. So, i think what you are talking about, the soaring rhetoric, this appeal to ethical and moral dimension of politics, you know, he ran a very Different Campaign than democrats had run in texas recently in the past. Democrats hadnt won, have still not won statewide office since 1994. What you have seen before, democrats tried to run toward the center in statewide races. Orourke ran a kind of, you know, appealing to our better angels, Progressive Campaign where he didnt make the policy concessions like wendy davis who ran against ted cruz. I think thats that rhetoric. It was orourkes appeal. You know, what he was doing in texas, he wasnt trying to persuade sen tryst republicans to vote for him, although some did. He was trying to convince likely leaning democratic voters it was worth it to show up at the polls. He did that successfully. Not enough to win, but more than anyone in the past. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time this morning. You are kind to commend joe hagens piece, i will xhnd yours as well. When we come back, the russia investigation may come to a close. New insight into the timing of when Robert Mueller is going to release his report. Going to release his report [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this. This and even this. But i dont have to clean this, because the selfcleaning brush roll removes hair, while i clean. [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans, now cleans itself. Make yourself comfy. Its the biggest streaming collection of british telly ever. Enjoy loved classics from the bbc and itv and discover exclusive new shows fresh from the uk. Very good. Brighten your new year with a britbox annual plan and get two months free. Are you kidding . Bring it on. This year, escape to britbox. Sign up for an annual plan and start your free trial at britbox. Com. Its nice. You got this woo i dont have any doubt that mr. Trump is going to pardon Paul Manafort, at some point. I believe Paul Manafort will get out of the federal charges because what does donald trump have to lose if he pardons him . That is john brennan talking about the former Campaign Chairman on the receiving end of a onetwo punch this week. In new york, a 16count, 11page indictment against manafort as he was being sentenced to more time in prison at the federal level. The president ial pardon couldnt absolve him from that. He was addressing President Trump. Ruled no evidence of any collusion. Liar very sad very sad day. Washington post puts it, regardless of whether manafort is promised or asked for a pardon, it is clear his legal team would like him to be seen as a good soldier. Once again, the president leaving his options open. Will you pardon Paul Manafort . I havent given it a thought. Its not on my mind. I feel badly for Paul Manafort. He made the most expansive comments on it. Im not above the law. I never want anybody to be above the law. The pardons are a positive thing for a president. Yes, i have an absolute right to pardon myself. Im going to start with you. I want to give you a sense of where things stand outside the courthouse in washington, d. C. Can manhattan d. A. Cy theres definitely a reason kevin went out there and said, you know, there was no collusion. I mean, the judge sad. Right. There is a reason for that. It was not because it had anything to do with Paul Manaforts legal case. The judge, herself, said the concept of collusion is nonstarter. He wasnt charged with conspiracy, collusion, arson. You can say all those things werent proven because they are not part of the case. Theres a reason they did that. It was strategic. Its to position himself in a good way for a pardon. They are throwing a wrinkle into that. The state charges, if convicted would be pardon proof. It throws a wrinkle into it. Paul manafort has been litigating much of his case from the position of trying to get a pardon from the very beginning. Now, hes in a harder situation, trying to face down the state charges. You watched or read the transcriptions on both of the sentencings in virginia and washington, d. C. It was two different Paul Manaforts with what he said and how he feels. Its Paul Manafort, right . Lest we forget. What to do to come up with the optimal outcome. How do we know that . Hes a lobbyist. He worked in ukraine and in the u. S. He knows how the system works. Hes going to do whatever gets him the best outcome. I think its nothing more than that when we look forward. What im interested in is as the Mueller Investigation concludes, how does it spin out and does the case move forward that involves manafort or does it simply end and these two trials. What is your sense as you watch the president , listen to what he has to say about all of this, he commits what i think is one of the most grammatical mistakes, ever, to say he feels badly. Unless he had a bloody finger. Were you an english major . He says that time and time again. What do you read from it . If you have seen good fellas this makes sense. Its a mofia language, code of loyalty. Stay quiet and you will sleep well. Thats what an aid sizer said to cohen. Michael cohen was angling for this type of reassurance from President Trump. He never got it. Now ill be the patriot, with manafort, trump is a fine person, i feel badly whats happened to him. Thats a signal. If you play by the rules, the code of silence, theres going to be a pardon. He said it. I dont have to pardon, but i can pardon. I can pardon myself. Wait, what . What just happened . We didnt ask that. Manafort, obviously, is playing for the pardon. Not just manafort, its anyone in trumps orbit, who comes into contact, mueller or charges. Trump is saying, you play by the rules, i have your back. A few of us are waiting for the tony romo moments before they unleash the indictments. It would be nice if theres state charges. That throws a wrinkle to manafort. Because the Trump Organization is emerged in so much corruption here in new york and the nexus is so tight and so many people connect ld, i feel there will be state crimes for many individuals in addition to these crimes. Addition to these crimes hey, want to try it . Ok here you go. Over. Under. Hey whoa, pop, pop. Your shoes untied. Ensure hes well taken care of, even as you build your own plans for retirement. 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Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Ask your doctor about humira citratefree. Heres to you. That does it for this hour. Thanks to my panel. Here with me in new york. Get us witness stand again tomorrow at 8 00 eastern time. Jill winebanks will be here with us. Up is on every saturday. Just ahead, t in new zealand, the mass murderer called immigrants invaders and an hour later President Trump used that same word in the oval office. President trump used that same word in the oval office sure its like a morn in spring more than half of our community have discovered their irish roots. Order ancestrydna, and find the surprises in you. Just 59 through march 18th. Get your kit today. Guys go through a lot to deal with shave irritation. So, we built the new Gillette Skinguard with a specialized guard designed to reduce it. Because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. The best a man can get. Gillette. You wouldnt accept an incomplete job from any one else. Why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. And all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. Flonase sensimist. Welcome back to up. Im david gur ra. In the wake of the deadly attack in new zealand, we now know a gunman killed 49 men, women, and children and several other dozens remain hospitalized. They were attacked in two mosques during friday prayers in christchurch. The man charged in the attack is a selfproclaimed White Nationalist. President trump yesterday down played the global threat of that. Do you think White Nationalism is a rising threat around the world . I dont, really. I think its a small group of people that are very, very serious problems. I guess if you look at what happened in new zealand, perhaps thats the case. I dont know enough about it yet. They are just learning about the person and the people involved. But its certainly a terrible thing, a terrible thing. The president also said this about immigration as lawmakers vetoed a congressional resolution to block his National Emergency to fund the construction of the wall on the u. S. Mexico border. Were on track for a million illegal aliens to rush our borders. People hate the word invasion, but thats what it is. Its an invasion of drugs and people. The president s comments mirrored the antiimmigrant rhetoric of a document that surfaced online justifying the new zealand mosque attacks, which included a series of white spreelist conspiracies on a level of invasion never seen before in history. A document posted online as the gunmans manifesto, he mentioned President Trump in a rhetorical question. Were are you a supporter of donald trump . As a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose . Sure. And senators are drawing a line between dehumanizing and dangerous rhetoric and violent actions. Words have consequences like saying we have an invasion on our border and talking about people as though they were different in some fatal way. I think the Public Discourse from the president on down is a factor in some of these acts. Up with me this hour, eddie gloch. Hes an msnbc contributor. Amy was a u. S. Assistant attorney for the Southern District of new york. Adrian elrod was the director of Strategic Communications at hillary for america. Im very glad to welcome to the show for the first time andrew desidarius who covers congress for politico. Eddie, let me start with you. Were talking about wheve seen here in the u. S. And new zealand. How easy is it to draw that line . White supremacy is not defined by or defied by national boarders. It has something to do with the emergence of the modern west. Madernity itself is rooted in the transatlantic slave trade. Its rooted in a ideology of whiteness that emerges. So its not limited to National Boundaries or National Histories. Those National Histories matter, though. But i think its important for us, before we get into all the abstractions is to think about this at the human level. Theres some folks out there who have lost people that they love. There is a 4yearold who is dead, theres a 6yearold who is dead. There are grandfathers who are dead. And it was during prayer service. And so you have parents who are trying to comfort their children right now. Who have who have to in some ways process the carnage to kind of keep the fear from taking root in their souls. Because if the fear takes root, it affects how they navigate the world and how they see themselves. And this is one of the insidious dimensions of White Supremacy, right . Its not simply that white people, people who are invested in whiteness as a sdangz. People who are invested in whiteness hate you. That hatred then gets inside you and you have to fight against it. So we have to think about this at the human level. And what i said yesterday, which let to breitbart and all of these folk coming at me is that we have to tell our kids in these moments that its not about us. The problem isnt us. The problem is White Supremacy. The problem is the crisis of the ideology of whiteness. And so when trump uses phrases like illegal aliens, which i find terribly insulting, when he uses words like invasion as if theres an infestation threatening the country, when we connect that to the history of race and White Supremacy and our and the ideology around citizenship in this country, the history of naturalization acts in this country, we know its deeply rooted in ideology of whiteness that we have to be critical of. This is another attack on a place of worship back in october after that attack in pittsburgh, i went there and talked to members of that community about what happened there and person after person said that this was unfathomable, that this was definitionally a sacred place, a place of sanitity where this shouldnt by any means have it happening. Here we have it happening and its a part of a string of attacks that weve seen. It is and its unfortunately become a common occurrence in the last few years or at least more so than it was previously before 2015. You know, i thought the senator who was just just hit it on the head where he said words have consequences and they do. While i think were all very careful not to overtly blame the sitting president for this attack, words do have consequences. And there are a lot of, for lack of a better term, crazy people out there who are watching everything that comes out of his mouth and, you know, potentially reacting to it. So i think, again, we just you know, i would have liked to have seen a stronger reaction from him yesterday and we didnt st see that. But, again, words have consequences. I was up early on friday morning. So i came in at 4 00 a. M. Our time. The president hadnt weighed in. Many hours had passed since this incident happened. All he did was retweet a Breitbart News piece about the shooting and then delete it afterwards. But you listen to what he had to say in the oval office. Perhaps, i guess, hes not a man who speaks with authority in a moment like this. He doesnt welcome or seem to welcome the opportunity to speak authoritatively or recognize the importance of speaking authoritatively when Something Like this happens. I think from my perch on capitol hill, you can expect a lot of interest in looking into this subject. The House Homeland Security committee has jurisdiction over this issue. That includes looking into the fbis practices over investigating, going after these types of attacks, you know, focussing more on this white supremacist, White Nationalist based terrorism over the sort of radical Jihadist Terrorism that has been the main focus over the last decade of two. And chairman Benny Thompson tried to have a hearing on this last year, i believe. And when the democrats were not in control, they werent able to have a hearing focused exclusively on this subject. Another thing they can loop in, i think, is this issue of big tech and how they deal with these crises. We saw that this killer apparently live streamed a lot of his terrible act on facebook. There was, i think, youtube was involved somehow, as well. Those Big Tech Companies have been really, really good at making sure that isis propaganda and other radical jihadist propaganda does not get spread across the internet. I think that there is going to be a greater focus from the policy making level on those Big Tech Companies in terms of what they do to stop these other types of hatred from gaining steam and, you know, being perpetuated around the globe via the internet. How does one not be in part at least defeatist. Andrew is talking about the degree to which this spread on social media. This is almost intractable, it seems. You have country trying to reign this in, this seems like a problem that is metastasizing, getting bigger, and at the same time, government and companies have a more difficult time trying to control it. Sure. And it is easy to feel defeatist and sad and angry. And all of those things. But, first of all, this is where and just to go back to this point about words mattering, from the president on down, again, not to blame him for these attacks, but its also the attacks on Law Enforcement that have consequences here. We need sources inside these groups. We need people to trust law nrchls enforcement to react in impartial ways to things like this when they happen here in our country and when they happen internationally. The fbi gets deployed all around the world. The intelligence agencies is crucial for things like this, online, theres a whole Law Enforcement world online trying to prevent this, not just react, but to prevent them. The president s attacks dont help that. The terrorist, whose name im forgetting, im trying to look it up and im glad i have forgotten his name. The one who tried to run over people with the van here in new york, there was recently a motion by his lawyers saying that he couldnt get a fair trial here because of words that the president had made after he was charge canned saying that, you know, he should get the death penalty. And the court ruled against that and said, no, he can get a fair trial here. But that, again, is something this president injects himself in not helpful ways into these cases that our courts need to be able to handle in impartial ways. And we need to be able to trust the judges, the prosecutors and the agents to do that. And when he makes comments like that, which people feel anger, of course, at someone like that. But comments like that as part of the Justice System are not helpful. Elevating him to a speech that hes given at many times focussing on that incident, eddie, i want to ask you about what youve observed about this particular mass shooting. And i dont mean to diminish it by asking it in that way. But we havent talked about the gunmans name. His face was blurred in the video that new zealand put out. It seems like we globally are approaching this in a way thats different than what we have in the past. I was thinking about this yesterday trying to wrap my mind around this. Our willingness to look at dylann roof in a particular way and now the way in which were managing this, i dont know if its lessons learned, i dont know if its global, but ive been trying to think about the way in which were consuming the violence in this moment. In some ways, weve worried that weve become anesthetized to it, that it happens so much that we can look it squarely in its face and move on. But were learning lessons. I dont know quite what those lessons on, because at the same time were seeing those happening, talking about the angelic blond kid who turned into a mass murderer. That was the front page as opposed to the images of the actual people who were killed. Were seeing Rush Limbaugh saying on his radio show that this was, in fact, a false flag, right . That it was a liberal doing it or Something Like that. Were seeing people on fox news saying that the actual position was understandable. It was the acts that was murderous and barbaric to put it in my own words. But it seems to me that we have to figure it out. We have to understand the linkage between this horrific act and a set of policy positions designed to exploit fear and hate. So we know in our politics that politicians are constantly weve known this since going back to machiavelli, that one of the ways to govern is to exploit peoples fears, to take advantage of their hatreds. So were seeing this and now it can bubble up into actual violence. And how it can result in all kinds of horrors. Thank you for helping us out this morning. Up ahead, as we await Robert Muellers report, the focus shifts to other investigations in congress. Her investigations in congress. Irritation. So, we reimagined the razor with the new Gillette Skinguard. It has a unique guard between the blades. Thats designed to reduce irritation during the shave. Because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. The best a man can get. Gillette. I can customize each line for soeach Family Member . E yup. And since it comes with your internet, you can switch wireless carriers, and save hundreds of dollars a year. Are you pullin my leg . Nope. You sure youre not pullin my leg . I think its your dog. Oh its him. Good call. Get the data options you need, and still save hundreds of dollars. Do you guys sell other dogs . Now thats simple, easy, awesome. Customize each line by paying for data by the gig or get unlimited. And now get 250 back when you buy a new samsung galaxy. Click, call, or visit a store today. Welcome back to up. When it comes to Robert Muellers investigation, the paler game continues wondering if and when were going to see the final report. It is a real scene if washington, d. C. Television crews are outside the office of the special counsel office. Publishing houses are scrambling to produce instant books. Meanwhile, there are signs the investigation is wrapping up. One of Robert Muellers top prosecutors is leaving the team. He oversaw the case against Paul Manafort. The formerer Campaign Chair has been sentenced to 7 1 2 years in prison. The president ial pardon cannot make those go away. When asked about manafort this week, President Trump made a false claim and he did it six times. I can only tell you one thing that was proven today. No collusion. No collusion. There is no collusion. Today, again, to collusion. The other day, no collusion. There was no collusion. I feel lulled into come pl e complacency there. Joining us now on set, the chair of the Democratic Caucus congressman, i think four republicans voted didnt vote in favor of that legislature. Get us to us speed here. What confidence do you have that we will be able to see that report when Robert Mueller finished it . The house expressed its intent. Overwhelmi overwhelming pi partisan support for the notion that once bob mueller completes his report, once its issued to the department of justice, it should be made available to people both to the congress and the American People. And yet how do you react to Lindsey Graham . There will be members who conduct themselves as separate branches and not on behalf of the American People, as members of a trump. Like cult. Thats unfortunate. But at the end of the day, it was taxpayers who paid for the Mueller Investigation, taxpayers deserve to know what the findings, whether it implicates the president or whether it exonerates the president. When you look at the landscape outside that mueller report, again, the waiting continues here, but what happened with the manhattan district attorney, what happens with the investigation going on here in new york, do you see this evolution happening . Are we at a pivot point in this investigation . I think we are. Look, a lot of people, you know, are reading into the fact that Andrew Weisman is leaving the special counsels office and i think thats right to read something into it. In other words, i think were going to move from the phase where all of the focus, even on the federal level, is in muellers office to where its going to be in different offices throughout the department of justice, different branches of the department of justice. I think were going to see more people within muellers office leaving and that doesnt mean, though, necessarily, that the investigation and certainly not the prosecutions are ending, right . I mean, we know roger stone is going to trial. We know gatess cooperation has been extended. The two things are not inconsistent. I think mueller can be handing things off to different prosecutors offices within the department of justice and thats not a bad thing. The department of justice as a whole, we have a saying in the attorneys offices that prosecutors offices are not expungeble. People who are dedicated on seeing these cases through. It may take years to unwind this. Theres a lot to investigate in many different areas. So i think were going to start seeing that shift and, yes, the state prosecutors in different ways come in. And youre seeing the Justice System as a whole, i think, working together but even if maybe at odds at times. Youre seeing different carts coming in to make a fuller picture, i think. You heard what the House Speaker had to say about impeachment this week. I wonder what your reaction was if you grabbed her by the elbow and say maybe we should turn down the tone on this. Essentially what Speaker Pelosi laid out is that the case should be compelling, the evidence should be overwhelming and public sentiment with respect to impeachment must be bipartisan. People read too much into it, you think . Absolutely. I think people consistently read too much into impeachment on the topic generally because we recognize, absence how democrats, that we were sent to washington in the majority to get things done on what have of americans, to Lower Health Care costs, to drive down the high cost of prescription drugs. That will continue to be our focus. It seems to me the argument that a lot of House Democrats are making is that the and this was well articulated by Speaker Pelosi. The idea that public sentiment has to be overturned by the president such that its no longer expedient for republicans to remain in the president s corner politically and in terms of the vote count in congress. But youre seeing this split versus folks saying it may have been bipartisan and other folks in congress saying it should be based solely on the evidence and we, meaning democrats, should not wait on republicans. Do you see that split . I think the overwhelming majority of the house is of the view that we should wait wait until these investigations come out, we have investigations taking place at the Southern District of new york, we have an investigation by the attorney generals office, an investigation by the District Attorneys Office in manhattan. It can yield different things. The constitution says if a president commits treason, rivalry or other high crimes of misdemeanors, that is a basis for impeachment. That is a high bar to follow. With respect to the bipartisan nature of the dynamics, that essentially has been built into the United States constitution and impeachment is the beginning of the process. Its the equivalent of a grand jury indictment. The actual trial takes place in the United States senate. And the framers of the constitution have made clear, because 67 senators would have to vote to convict the president leading to removal that that essentially has to be bipartisan in nature. So youre saying we shouldnt have to wait on republicans in order to start impeachment proceedings . Thats not what im saying. What im saying is the framework has been set forth such that an indictment is one thing, yes, thats impeachment, but responsibly to proceed it makes sense that the evidence has to be overwhelming and that the public sentiment should be bipartisan in nature in order to complete the process in that you shouldnt separate impeachment from removal. Quickly here, the congressman talks about how the mandate of these coming into congress is to do these investigations. Anecdotally, a lot of people wanted this to get under way, that that was part of the mandate, by voting in the democratic majority, they wanted that. And i think thats why Speaker Pelosi coming out and saying if they do impeach it has to be in a bipartisan manner is so important. Republicans certainly saw what happened to their numbers when bill clinton was impeached in the 90s. His numbers soared. And it essentially helped democrats across the board. So i think republicans know that, you know or rather democrats know that this has to be a bipartisan investigation because, again, the tables can turn and it can negatively affect what happened in 2020. And, again, to me as a democratic strategist, the most important thing is to beat donald trump in 2020. I dont want anything to get in the way to impact that result. The congressman is going to stay with us. Were going to come back in just a moment. Coming up, why were seeing more and more acting in the trump administration. That is partly by design. Administration that is partly by design if theyre the 737 max, the safety of the American People and all people is our paramount concern. Thats President Trump previewing an order to ground 737 max aircraft in the u. S. Dozens of planes were still in the air at the time as the faa scrambled to notify carriers and the american public. So the decision is an emergency order to ground the airplanes and that is authority rested in the faa. With me. Thats the faas acting administrator. They say they made their decision to ground those planes after regulators reviewed satellite data of the ethiopia crash. The data very close to that of the lion aircraft in october. The president claimed i know tech better than anyone. He tweeted this, aer planes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from m. I. T. I see illustrate all the time in many products. Often old and simpler is far better. Thats something the former transportation secretary disputed on thursday. Are airplanes too complex to fly these days . Absolutely not. We have highly trained pilots. The planes are sophisticated, but theyre not too sophisticated that you cant have good training and good pilots with good experience landing planes and having planes take off and fly them safely. I want to highlight a great piece the times had this week on how the president uses and ubdz technology. On present technology matters, including drones at the border, clean energy and the evolution of airplane engiering, he prefers a nonscientific approach. Help us understand how congress is going to look into this. I mentioned that disconnect at the beginning. You had all these other countries, the eu, grounding these planes. A lot of political pressure on the u. S. To do that. Fundament fundamentally, thats not how this is supposed to work. As i said, you had the president previewing that announcement in the oval office in those offthecuff remarks. These are unconventional times. I think millions of americans are answering the question when will a Long National nightmare be over. But putting that aside, i think the dynamics that were dealing with, congress will seek to answer two questions. First, is there a Technical Glitch connected to these models of aircraft that are essentially forcing them to nose dive and at least in two instances have caused a crash over the last six months . Thats the first question. Second question is, given the new technology that seems to be connected to this model of aircraft, have the pilots been given adequate training in order to manage the technology that appears to have been given several people some difficulty. So i think those are going be the questions that congress will systemically work there way through. I mentioned hes the acting administrator of the faa. There was a time when the president was floating to have his personal pilot the job at that time. I gather thats no longer on the table. But the president has gone on the record saying he liekts actings. And weve seen more of these in recent months. The secretary of defense acting in that capacity, the epa, interior department, as well. What are the consequences of that, having somebody in that job. I think its significant on a couple of levels. Number one, i mean, actings dont have to get confirmed by congress, right . So that is a challenge in itself because you can be an acting person in the job, but you dont have to get congressional approval, which means theres little oversight in terms of making sure youre picking the right person who is the best fit for the job. Secondly, this also is a consequence of a lot of top notch people not want to go serve in President Trumps administration. Were starting to see that, especially now that were over two years in the administration to the detriment of our government and to the detriment of our governments function in terms of representing the people. You know, but when it comes tot to the planes, this is what i like so much about congressman jeffries is here today talking about this and about congresss oversight approval. We have the president tweeting out there planes are too complicated, this old school going back to the 1950s technolo technological things that he likes. Meanwhile, congress is doing its job saying we are going to look into this. The proper committees that have oversight over Plane Technology will be reviewing these standards and were going to ignore the president at this point with his petty rhetoric which has no bearing in terms of what the actual outcome will be when it comes to whether or not these planes will be flying. What does it say about the tension between President Trump and regulators, his attitude towards regulation . He shoonts be making these decisions, but if we play this out a little bit more, i wouldnt want a guy who is just spouting off about how he thinks a plane operates deciding how planes should be operating and that seems to be the tack that he wants to take. And its exactly the same tack he takes with intelligence and scientists and people who everyone else in the world, really, especially president s, need to rely on for real information and facts to make informed decisions. But trump either is incapable of that or i think more likely wants to create his own set of facts and his own reality so he can make decisions that benefit him personally. Because its really all coming down to what he can say to make himself look good and politically advantageous for him. So its just its dangerous. Its dangerous when he does it with intelligence and says that russia did not interfere to help him in the election. Its the same concept, the same mentality, i think. And its frightening. I mentioned dan ellwell who is acting administrator. You look at the faa, the entire upper Management Level tfaa right now are in an acting capacity. What does that say about the regulatory apparatus in this country right now, how hollowed out it is as somebody who occasionally nighs on planes . It gives me pause knowing that jobs arent being filled or theyre being filled on an ad hoc basis. Right. So weve been talking about on this network the constitutional crisis, but theres a crisis of competence and the idea of the government working at the highest level. And i want to say that that has underpinnings. There is a current in this country thats been driving to starve the beast for a long time. So leaving these positions open has does idealogical work. I think a board wrote about our willingness to take risks, Dana Millbank tapped about what happens when corporations run government. Whats interesting about this boeing case is the outside influence of Corporate America and Decision Making and the willingness on the part of certain political elites to allow americans to experience or expose americans to risk. So the question that we have to ask ourselves, what beyond the wisdom of Donald Trumps gut, which happens to be pretty large, but what motivated trump, right, the president , to wait so long . To ground after canada, after all the other after europe, after china, grounded 737 max 8 and 9 . What caused him to delay . And my instinct, my gut, which isnt quite so big, right, leads me to believe that it has something to do with the outsized influence of boeing on how our government is run. Ill turn to the congressman on that lastly. There were these reported phone calls between the president and the head of boeing at this point. I mentioned the acting secretary of defense has a long career at boeing, 30 years working for that company, as well. Is this the way the government should be going about business, where the president can call up somebody hes work with who is working with somebody heading his pentagon right now. Is this the way decisions should be made . Absolutely not. One of the problems weve seen with this administration is this government by friends and family plan, this government by the Billionaires Boys Club in terms of trumps allies and people who hes associated with and its a factfree zone. It did trouble a lot of people on the hill that it seemed that the call between trump and boeings ceo was what may have given trump the ability to say, well, i dont think theres any problem here. And that we can just proceed as if everything is normal, when the rest of the world were grounding these model aircraft and thats very problematic. And this, by the way, is why congresss Oversight Authority is so important right now. Were seeing. And i think the transportation and Infrastructure Committee will take a look at this. I think chairman ee looj ya cummings will take a look at this. And as a separate and coequal parts of government, exercising oversight on an out of control executive branch, regardsless of whether the democrat is a democrat or republican is our constitutional responsibility and were going to take advantage of that. When we come back, were head to go iowa as beto orourke becomes the 15th democrat to jump into the 2020 race. Into t. Now theres 15 candidates. Trump is already calling them a caravan. Them a caravan. Might mean a trip back to the Doctors Office just for a shot. But why go back there when you can stay home with Neulasta Onpro . Strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection. In a key study neulasta reduced the risk of infection from 17 to 1 , a 94 decrease. Neulasta onpro is designed to deliver neulasta the day after chemo and is used by most patients today. 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Hark, i deep clean messes like this. But i dont have to clean this, because the selfcleaning brush roll removes hair, while i clean. [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans, now cleans itself. We are all americans and we are all human beings and we do everything within our power for one another, for this great country, and for every generation that follows. This is democracy. And this is up. Im david gura. Today is the third day of beto orourkes threeday swing through iowa. His announcement, a long time coming. I told vanity fair, man, im just born to be in it. So far, the former congressman has held event necessary no fewer than eight towns across iowa. Nbc is on the ground in iowa. Hes been chasing the candidate around, and i do mean chasing, vaughn, because a lot of these events havent been on a public station. Hes been driving that minivan around and you dont know where these events are going to take place. Yeah. Good morning, david. You hear suddenly hes at a house party here in this part of town where youre setting up at another. Beto orourke is trying to run a campaign here in iowa that is that classic hit the small places, do retail, meet people person to person. At the same time, thats frankly hard when youre beto orourke. Two nights ago, we were at one of those house parties where there are dozens of people outside the door in 20degree weather waiting to get in. He has another house party this evening which, if you know dubuque, its not a small town. Right here behind us, well be seeing beto orourke run ago st. Patricks day 5k before going and helping a election county here in town of waterloo over here this afternoon and knocking on doors. Were going to talk about beto orourkes campaign. Its very, i guess, unifying message, a very we all need to come together and put those party labels aside. Giving that rhetoric, there is, in a lot of these instances, a lack of concrete policy specifics coming from the former congressman. I asked him yesterday, when can you expect to present more details about your plans when it comes to health care, when it comes to climate change, instead of just putting those issues forward. And he says, you know, weve got 11 months and theres no point in campaigning if you dont go out and listen to people and their own ideas. Are you going run that race . Its funny, the Campaign Said there are no interviews available with beto orourke as hes running. Because of that, i think ill sit this one out. Thank you very much. Vaughn hilliard in iowa. Stick around. I mentioned that vandy fair profile. The author of that piece will join us next. Thats coming up. Thats coming up how do you determine the durable value of a business in the Transportation Industry without knowing firsthand the unique challenges in that sector. Coming out here, seeing the infrastructure firsthand, talking with the people behind the numbers creates a different picture. Once i know what a business is truly worth, we can make better informed investment decisions. Thats why i go beyond the numbers. Do you think that the experience he has here in the house is a Strong Enough foundation to jump to the oval office . And you ask me that when we have a president of the United States who never please. So is that a yes . The answer is yes. Thats House Speaker nancy pelosi weighing in on beto orourkes experience or lack thereof. The county attitude his time announce ago ptd announcing a president ial bid, but they were ready. Beto has that magic dust, at least an 8 ball. Yet another democrat has jumped into the race. This case Robert Francis bozo orourke. If bozo is elected, he plans to flush the constitution down the toilet. And here is what President Trump had to say. Your reaction to beto orourkes announcement . I think he has a lot of hand movement. I have never seen so much hand movement. I said is he crazy or is that just the way he acts . Forgive me, i cannot resist pointing out the hypocrisy there. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bong, bing, bing, bing, bing, bong and that. Bing, bong. Huh. Bing, bing, bong bong, bing, bing, bing. You know what that is, right . His biggest weakness may not be his hand gestures. From vanity fair, orourke is aware, too, of perhaps his biggest vulnerabilities, being a white man in a democratic pattern yearning for a woman or a person of color. Lets start there. I imagine that was something beto orourke was thinking about. And i found it pretty interesting that right out of the gate his First Campaign stop was about that, about his White Privilege, you was about his White Privilege, leaving his wife at home and taking his road trip. So he comes out immediately that brings up this White Privilege thing. He is aware of it. Obviously he cant do anything about that. But he does want to like his answer to that is ill make my staff should i have one represent the country and be e diverse. But unlike Bernie Sanders and maybe joe biden, because of his age, he will be a referendum on white men in the democratic party. And he has to bear that. Unlike i think other candidates so far. Because he is supposed to be the youth guy and be woke, right . So whether he and he had to deal with it almost immediately. He is an artful apologizer by the way. And how big is this an issue for you as you look at that field of 15 candidates . Somewhere in there. How big is deal is this the fact that he is a white man in this race when you have the opportunity to elect many women running and people of color as well. I dont think it is a huge deal. Hes made it clear that he will build a Campaign Staff that is t diverse. But he does have to be careful not to lean into the White Privilegeaspect. Somebody like beto orourke has the potential of doing really well, i think he can potentially divide the bernie vote. But testimony be le it will be left to be seen. And he sort of came of age, leaves el paso, leaves his dads shadow, goes to a school for boys. But a rural school. How much did that shape who he is . He kind of rejected that southern prep school. Was that the turning point for him . Well, i think the turning point actually was when he had been away from his home for many years and he returns. He had not expected to do that. When he went to woodbury, it was to get away from his dad and he didnt really fit in. And all the ways in which he adapted to not fitting in formed his personality. It was computers, it was punk rock, it was poetry and all these kinds of things. And he was a bit of an outsider. And he is an out sider throughout his time when he was in columbia and new york and when he returns to el paso, he is returning to the fold and he will finally be himself and pull the sword from the stone, right . I mean that is his narrative. But and frankly, i think understanding the most important thing to understand about him is el paso. And how he was shaped by the southwest and his fathers politics. And this is a very democratic place in the reddest state in that area. So i think that now though were trying to find out what is his political conviction, what is at the heart of what is driving him really. Do you see that i mean this is a guy who is fascinated by history, he reads widely, he thinks about american history. Do you see those convictions coming across when he is out there campaigning . There was a lot of excitement around his senate campaign. The viral video of his position around Football Players taking the knee suggested that he was open to and committed to america as it actually is. Now there is a question about what he actually stands for. The last thing we need is another candidate who is just simply slogan, a kind of manufactured story that you could tell where he gets to the rock and pulls the sword out as it were. I think that he will have to be clear about where he stands on medicare for all. He will have to be clear about a living wage, he will have to be clear about the role of corporations in our government. And with regards to his youthfulness, once he stands next to mayor pete, you cant just simply be charismatic. He will have to be able to hold his own in terms of policy positions. So well have to see where he stands. If he tries to find that middle ground where he takes over bidens place and tries to play the cory booker unity role and then try to split the difference, i think he will have to he will have a difficult time with the base. And i saw you nodding. Youve covered him on the hill. How does it square about the beto orourke that you know . Eddie is correct that he is already facing really important questions about his views on policy proposals. And it is also a good point to make that whether or 2409 joe biden gets into the race, he could sort of occupy that centrist lean and i think he realizes that. Because he ran as a progressive when he ran in texas pretty unapologetically. Ironically he shares two political talents with donald trump. The first is he is a master fundraiser. He hauled in Something Like 80 million last year for his senate race. Just unprecedented. The second thing, he can draw huge crowds and that will work really well for him in the state of iowa where you are trying to win over the voters one by one. And what i want to ask joe, is that something that you think will carry him forward in this race . 30 seconds. I think that his success is going to depend on whether he can do in the is senate race, which was get out ahead and make his own media. Bend the media to him in the way that trump does. Thats what he shares, his ability to kind of create his own moments. And he hasnt done that yet. Hes been having it made for him, right . But he has to do what he did in the last election, get out there, put the camera on himself. Hes really good at social media. And basically be himself and see how far that gets him. Astronaut minut put that min. Big thanks to my panel joining me here in new york. Up next, joy reid diving into the fractured state of the two americas. That is coming up next. At is cot free wifi. 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