should matter. but if it fits within the realm of america and consistent with the constitution, no problem. >> do you believe that islam is consistent with the constitution? >> no, i do not. i would not advocate that we put a muslim in charge of this nation. i absolutely would not agree with that. >> after that interview carson's cam ppaign staying that "ben carson did not say that a muslim should be prevented from running or barred from running in any way. he has great respect for the muslim community but there is a huge gulf between the faith and practice of the mus clim faith and the constitution and american values. >> obviously you've gotten a lot of attention from comments made by a voter at a town hall last week. the voter said among other things, "the problem in this country is muslims." you have since said you no many muslims, you have friends that are muslims, that are excellent, fabulous and great, you have a great love for them. if that's the case, why didn't you say it there? >> i said it always. i never had a problem with m muslims. you turn on the newscast, no matter where you are, you have a problem. people cannot at mdmit that. >> i think this is the issue with radical islam. would you have corrected him if he said the problem in this country is christians or the jewish people? >> i assume, savannah that he was talking about radical islam. no matter where you turn, you're seeing it. it's a very big problem. i fully understand muslims are great people. i have many friends and they're concerned with radical islam, too. i assumed that's what he was talking about. >> let me ask you one more thing about this. he also said the president is muslim and the president is not an american. do you take any responsibility for the popularity of those views when you yourself for many, many years were a big proponent of the notion that the president was not born in the united states? do you bear any responsibility for the fact that voters who think that are attracted to your campaign? >> savannah, he made statements, it's not my obligation to defend the president? is the president going to defend me because last night during the emmy awards people said things about me? i don't think so -- >> do you think it's -- >> savannah, i don't think it's my obligation to defend him. i have no obligation to defend him and most people agree with that. when he makes his statements, he's asking me a question, i actually said nothing. this is the first time in my entire life -- >> that's because it's so striking for you not to say anything. that's why people think for remaining silent, you tacitly agreed. >> i figured i'm not going to defend the president and most people agreed with what i did. >> what other people are talking about this, the story line regarding muslims in the u.s.? >> good morning. all of the candidates are going to have to weigh in on this eventually but we're seeing shocking, tepid responses. john kasich said everything gets regarded in the presidential race but i don't think it should be the top priority. nobody is saying anything that the entire country was founded on freedom of religion, not just christians. bobby jindal is already saying i hope the president is going to be a christian. >> is it their responsibility to come out with a statement, even though they're not involved in this controversy? >> i think they're trying to defend those with an intolerant view. i'm not sure it's talking about the decency of the race and bringing the race to a higher standard when you're quietly, tacitly going after one religion. >> great seeing you. thanks for being with me this morning. on the other side of the campaign, the week is starting off with good news for hillary clinton. a new national poll shows her bouncing back among democratic votes are, her lead among the field growing. this morning it's looking for likely that the vice president will launch a campaign of his own. a top aide to the v.p. said that his wife would be on board for a biden 2016 campaign. kristen welker joins me from little rock. good morning. >> hillary clinton will be campaigning, this is the state where she was once first lady. she'll appear here on this college campus. this is a part of her broader strategy to get back on offense and off of defense from that e-mail issue which has dogged her campaign. this campaign comes amid some good news. she is expanding her lead. if vice president biden is in the race, hillary clinton gets 42%, bernie sanders gets 24%, joe biden gets 22%. look what happens if joe biden is out of the race, hillary clinton gets 57% and bernie sanders on 28%. here's what joe biden had to say about it. >> we're just not quite there yet and i may not get there in time to make it feasible to be able to run and succeed because there are certain windows that will close. but if that's it, that's it. >> reporter: so biden saying publicly that he might not be able to get there but another indication that he might be inching closer, his team is officially pushing back against reports that his wife, dr. bill biden, might not be on board with a run. "of course dr. biden would be on board if her husband decides to run for president but they haven't made that decision yet." vice president biden has been very candid that he is still very much mourning the loss of his son bo. the clinton campaign watching all this very closely. >> kristen welker, thank you very much. >> pope francis celebrated mass yesterday in revolution square. what's the reaction been there so far to the pope's visit? >> reporter: good morning, jose. the reaction has been wild lily positive. there were at many as 500,000 people now. that's the estimate from the cuban government. 200,000 people said the vatican was somewhere in between. the square was absolutely full but not everybody was there to celebrate and greet the pope. some were there to call for help. there were a number, two or three that tried to approach the pope, shouting "freedom," throwing leaflets. we agree they belong to a dissident group called ladies in white and the leader said she was called to greet the pope but she was prevented to get close to the pope by the cuban authorities. now, the vatican has confirmed that the pope wanted to at least greet this dissident group but they did not comment on the arrest because the leader as well has said that as many as 30 people were arrested so they couldn't get anywhere closer to the pope or even to the mass. and later on he met both castro brothers. the -- this is the first time the pope will go to the birth place of the castro bothers. >> claudio lavanga in cuba, thank you very much. >> george, it's great seeing you. >> thank you, jose. >> let's talk a little bit about the significance of yesterday, probably closer to 250,000 people because if you you have to believe a source, it should be the vatican probably. if that is the number, what is the significance of that event when we see this the third pope to visit? why do you this it is or could have an impact? >> well, the pope last night went off script, as he has a tendency to do, in a meeting with them. he said to them, "don't be wimpy." that's an instruction that might well be given to the leadership of the catholic church as well. we know it's when the church defends the human rights of all that the church can be a real force for positive change and what looked like virtually impossible situations of change. so i hope that's what happens in cuba, the empowerment of the church to be a real force for humin rights, for religious freedom for all, for the democratization of the island. >> doesn't the pope need to talk about those issues or at least brush upon those issues if those issues are to be dealt with? and, by the way, what happened to john paul's visit and benedi benedict's visit? >> the other question we might ask is what has happened between the restoration of diplomatic relations? the answer in human rights turn is nothing has happened of real consequence. the church needs to be pushing hard on these themes. john paul ii said famously in 1998 let the world open itself to cuba and let cuba open itself to the world. that sentence now needs to be completed by let cuba open itself to cubans and let the catholic church be a part of an open, civil society. >> and has the pope or anybody in the catholic church in cuba discussed that issue? >> one hopes within private matters with castro and his brother leader have been brought up. it's the only way the church will have a serious future in cuba, is if it is identified with an island that has been oppressed for a long period of time. >> has anything changed there that would lead you or anyone to believe that this jesuit pope could have an impact internally with a group of people that doesn't really know god because it's been governmental policy to shield its people from god? >> we have to hope that his personal witness, his personal magnetism invites people to look seriously at christian faith, to look at the catholic church again. there's a great misunderstanding, which you and i have discussed before, that cuba is somehow like poland in 1979. that's just not the case. the catholic church has a real work of eadvantavaingellism. >> does it seem to you that the church has played a role where you can actually feel protected if you are a church-goer in cuba than just going on your own? >> it needs to be more assertive. these ladies in white deserve the public support of their pastors. they're asking for simple justice. the pastors in the church ought to support that. i hope that this visit will accelerate that. >> you said hope five times during this conversation. let me add a sixth one to that conversation, hope. thanks for being with me. >> and now developments from the boston area where bella's mother rachelle bond and her boyfriend michael mccarthy were arrested. >> last night the community gathered for a candlelight vigil at deer island, where little bella's body was found last june. >> we didn't know her but i have feelings. i feel sad this this shouldn't have happened to her. >> ron is outside the courthouse. i just got out of the market, there was a gentleman very upset at the details that we've now learned over the weekend about how this young girl died. we're expecting these tw defendants to appear in court behind me sometime this morning to be arraigned. the boy friend for murder, the mother is 40-year-old rachelle bond. they'll be charged today formally. what we have heard from the baby's dad, joseph amoroso, when he came back up here from florida that summer and wanted to see his child, initially the mother told him she was away. eventually she confessed to him and told him that michael mccarthy punched her repeatedly in the stomach until she died, then put her in a refrigerator for about a month and then put her in a trash bag. >> i believe her story. i believe every word that came out of her mouth. being that she told me that michael mccarthy had killed bella, i believe he did. i know with all my heart that rachelle bond would never, ever do anything to hurt anybody and i was with the woman, it's the mother of my child. >> reporter: one of the questions that people were immediately asking when this broke, why was bella still allowed to stay with the mom given the mom's history with the department of children and families. we understand the state is going to investigate why bella was not taken away from this mom or why there want more involvement from dcf into bella's care with this another. she had previously lost two of her children to the state because of her lack of ability to care for them properly so a lot of people believe the ball somehow was dropped by the state that they allowed this young child, given the mother's history, to stay with her and die under such horrible circumstances. up saw the memorial over the weekend, there was a park bench and a tree dedicated to bella. this was almost a three-month long investigation while this community was trying to discover her community. there was a lot of anger in her community about how this all went down. >> we'll of course keep our eyes on that courtroom and bring you the arraignment when it happens. still ahead, new reaction to ben carson's controversial comments about a muslim in the white house. the council on american muslim relations has scheduled a meeting on this. >> and a city on the edge, despite the arrest of a suspect in at least some of those highway shootings. and why viola davis' winning made history. we'll be right back. play awesome party song. ♪ (phone ringing) what's up mikey? 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[engine revving] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ a shooting inside a church. phoenix still on the edge and an election in greece. an alabama pastor and member of his congregation are being credited for saving lives. the pastor intervened at 26-year-old james minter jr. opened fire shooting his girl friend and infant son. investigators say he may have been upset about a local breakup. >> and commuters are still on edge after the arrest of a suspect of shootings on the freeway. police did arrest 27-year-old leslie merit on friday after police linked bullets from the gun that he says is in a pawn shop, saying he's the wrong guy. >> and we continue to watch the courtroom in dorchester, massachusetts. former fbi profiler clint van sant joining me to talk about that case right here next on "the rundown." e cooks? ♪ ♪ ♪ another tie. order in? next time i drive. the right-sized nissan rogue. ♪ did you know that meeting your daily protein needs actually helps to support your muscle health? boost® high protein nutritional drink can help you get the protein you need. each serving has 15 grams of protein to help maintain muscle, plus 26 vitamins and minerals including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones. boost® high protein is the #1 selling high protein complete nutritional drink and it has a great taste-guaranteed! help get the nutrition you need everyday with boost® high protein. available at these fine retailers. and we continue to follow developments from the boston area where this morning the mother of this little girl and the mother's boyfriend are to be arraigned in the death of 2-year-old bella bond. there you see the inside of the courtroom. just a few days ago she was known as baby doe, her body found washed up on the shore in a trash bag last june. let me bring in former fbi criminal profiler clint van zandt. let's talk about the police work that went into identifying the little girl. >> jose, this case was solved by good police work, to include scientific evidence, and help from the general public. usually you need both. in this particular case, i think law enforcement when they found the little girl's body, they were of the belief that she probably had not been dropped at sea but she was left there locally and, as you know, then they were able to identify certain types of pollen as well as soot that were on the little girl's body and clothing. >> clint, let me interrupt you. we're watch being the two defendants come into the courtroom. there you see the mother and the boyfriend just walked in before. let listen in. >> our boston affiliate is reporting that michael mccarthy alleged live punched bella bond in the stomach repeatedly and reportedly believed the child was possessed by demons. clint, i'll bring you back in as we expect the courtroom to start right now. how does all this fit into the prosecution's case that we're hearing these details? >> we always want to know motive, why did someone kill another person but in this case it doesn't make any difference. this is a child. this is a 35-year-old man who punched a 2 1/2-year-old child to the extent that he killed her and the biological mother who had given up two previous children to social services, who unfortunately has a history of allegedly prostitution and drug use, thereafter helped her boyfriend cover up the murder and the disposal of this body. you know, this is a place we think children should be the safest is in their own home and the reality is 450 children are killed every year by a parent in a situation somewhat similar to this, where their child is physically abused, murdered and disposed of. >> and the actual biological father of the little baby girl is in the courtroom there. you see him. this has been a very emotional moment, not only for the father but also for the entire community. this is, as you're saying, this is just something that shouldn't be happening and a 2 1/2-year-old little girl should not be going through this terror, this hell that clearly she went through when she was alive. let's see if we can listen in if there is any more. i'm being told there is nothing yet, as we are in this dorchester, massachusetts courtroom. we're just about to get under way. the mother and the boyfriend are just there. you can see her right there. that is the mother and as clint was saying, she apparently in the past has had two children that she had given up to foster care and for adoptions but in this case, a little bella, she apparently had little bella with her and then this boyfriend who we're being told, clint, was apparently thinking that little bella was a demon of some kind. so, clint, talk to me about the state that will review the involvement of child protective services in all of this. because if the mother does have a past, how could something like this, this child be in her case, be in her custody, when the boyfriend believed the little girl was a devil. is there a role that maybe services dropped the ball on? >> well, you know, this always is something we turn an eye to. i have a sister who worked in child protection in illinois. i know in this particular case, all of these investigators are overworked, they have a tremendous caseload, but in the case of little bella, as you and i just discussed, two previous children were taken out of the home. social services knew the negative history of the mother. they had conducted investigations within the house and concerning bella but then she disappeared, no one was there to say what happened to her. you know, that was part of what led to i think law enforcement's belief that whoever this missing child was had to have died at the hand of a primary care giver. otherwise the 2 1/2-year-old child would have been reported missing just because of the lack of a report by a mother or father, you have to assume they likely knew something, jose. >> and talk to me because if you could, give me those numbers again. this is something that happens far more than we may think does. >> yeah, the reality is unfortunately that 450 children, now this is over the last 30 years, 450 children a year die at the hands of a parent. three out of four are under the age of 5 and a third of these children are simply one year old. so, again, so many people would just do anything in the world to have a child and it's hard for most of us to believe that somebody that innocent could die at the hands of a parent and yet they do, unfortunately, over one time a day every year. >> what a tragedy. clint, thank you so much for being with me. as we're watching these scenes of the arraignment, which is about to get under way right now, there is no audio. the court is not make anything audio available as of now. we're going to keep a close watch on this and when it does get under way, we will let you know. now on the latest developments on the growing migrant crisis in europe, secretary of state john kerry just wrapped up a trip to europe to discuss the situation says the u.s. will significantly raise the number of world wide refugees it will accept. >> as soon as we have an opportunity to try to up that, we're welcome -- america has always welcomed bringing in people under these circumstances. >> let me bring in chris jansen. >> reporter: good morning, jose. >> is this going to be an increase in the number? is it going to be significant? >> reporter: what's going to happen is the white house is going to start a debate. the white house can bring any number it wants, but congress has to fund it. right now worldwide we are at 70,000. 85,000 which starts october 1st but of these, only 10,000 next year are the syrian refugees that have caused so much of an outpouring from the american people who have seen those dramatic images of people fleeing the syrian civil war. here's the problem. the problem is, one, you have a lot of republican opposition who there are people who believe and they just put out a statement yesterday, the head of the judiciary committee on both the house and the senate side, concerned about whether isis will infiltrate into these refugees and that will give them access into the united states. that's exactly the reason why it takes so long to get refugees through the process. it takes usually 18 months to two years and one of the things that they're working on in the administration is is there a way to safely speed up that process. clearly the united nations has said that they need both the united states and the oourn to consider taking in more refugees, particularly these syrian refugees. so that is an ongoing process. is there a way to speed up that process? already they have at least 10,000 in the pipeline. they can do that but they have to go through the security check, through a health check and then there has to be agencies here in the united states and help them to asem late. you'll hear this ongoing debate in congress about how many syrian refugees should be brought in. there are democrats who believe there should be a 100,000 allowed in from syria alone. >> thank you very much. i want to take you back to dorchester, massachusetts. the arraignment has just gotten under way for little bella bond's death, a 2 1/2-year-old girl killed allegedly by the boyfriend of her biological mother. let's listen in for a bit. >> pending presentation of the matter to the grand jury, as to miss bond, the commonwealth requests that bail be set in the amount of $1 million cash. briefly, your honor, the complaints before the court allege the following set of circumstances: by way of brief background, on june 25th of this year, a woman walking her dog on deer island found a plastic contractor's construction bag and noted that her dog had run offer to it and was pawing at it, very interested in the contents. she went over to the bag after asking another person to come with her, opened the bag partially and saw what appeared to be the limb of a small child. she immediately called 911. massachusetts state police and other first responders responded and they opened the bag and found the body of an unknown, unidentified approximately 3 to 4-year-old child based on their estimates of her size. she was partially -- she was in the beginning stages of decomposition, wearing white leggings with black polka dots and no shirt and there were two blankets, a zebra print blanket in the bag with her. moisture was in the bag but it had remained fairly sealed until that time. the bag had been seen the previous noontime on the 24th of june, indicating to investigators the bag had been washed up on the beach for approximately 24 hours. there ensued a three-month exhaustive search comprising thousands of -- maybe tens of thousands of detective hours spent trying to identify the girl without success. detectives traced leads all across massachusetts, they got hundreds of tips and leads and conducted scores of well being checks on small girls. they also put out an advisory that had a picture of the forensic reconstruction of the girl's face, that is what a forensic reconstruction expert believed the girl most likely looked like in life, accounting for some affects of decomposition to her body. they were unable to recover fingerprints because of the effects of skin slippage. detectives worked tirelessly to identify her but were unable to until wednesday the 16th of this month, just last wednesday and actually more into thursday morning. it was at that time on wednesday morning, the two defendants were accompanied to the boston medical center by a life long friend of mr. mccarthy's, who had lived with the couple earlier this year and in living with them had come to know ms. bond's almost at that time 3-year-old daughter bella. he had lived with them but had moved out -- >> these are the horrifying details the prosecutor is laying out in dorchester, massachusetts on the death of little bella bond. we will continue watching this for you and of course keep you updated on this situation. still ahead, we're getting our first look inside as president obama visited a federal prison last month. it was shot by vice for an upcoming hbo special. i'll be speaking to the founder and ceo of vice who was with the president next. it's intelligent enough to warn of danger from virtually anywhere. it's been smashed, dropped and driven. it's perceptive enough to detect other vehicles on the road. it's been shaken, rattled and pummeled. it's innovative enough to brake by itself, park itself and help you steer. it's been in the rain... the cold... and dragged through the mud. introducing the all-new mercedes-benz gle. it's where brains meet brawn. when account lead craig wilson books at laquinta.com. he gets a ready for you alert the second his room is ready. so he knows exactly when he can settle in and practice his big pitch. and when craig gets his pitch down pat, do you know what he becomes? 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(interrupting) you can't pick it up, can you? go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world. u.s. prisons is taking an up-close look at president obama making history earlier this year when he became the first sitting president to visit a federal prison. that trip in july was captured by vice as part of a new hbo special titled "fixing the system." >> i did a lot of stupid stuff when i was young, but i've said this before, i was just in an environment where you could afford to make some mistakes. i had more of a margin of error than a lot of kids do, particularly if they're in a low-income community that's surrounded by a lot of drug activity, criminal activity. kids adapt to what they see. >> joining me now the ceo and founder of vice media and host of the emmy-winning news magazine show "vice" on hbo. shane, thanks for being with me. you were in that federal prison in oklahoma with the president. what was that like? >> well, it was pretty amazing to see the president so honest and frank and interact with the inmates there in, quite frankly, a remarkably candid way. >> tell me how long that lasted. what was it like. there's the historical side of it but also just the unusual nature of that. how long did it last? >> well, it was two parts. we went in and we had an interview with myself and the president. then we had a sort of roundtable with six inmates. so it was effectively a full day between all the security and screenings and talking to the other inmates. it was a full day at fci in oklahoma. >> what struck you most about the president sitting down with those inmates? >> that. i mean his honesty, being really candid and really relating to these inmates, admitting that he hadn't known his father and the effect that that had had on him, making mistakes, sort of there but for the grace of god go i feeling. i mean he really -- he was really -- for a sitting president. the most powerful man to go and talk about his past in such a candid way, it was emotional. >> tell me about the six guys that were there. what were they like, what were they asking, what were they talking about? >> i think they all just wanted to tell their stories. one of the reasons why we did the documentary was because the president and the white house want to shine a light on the fact that 56% of federal inmates are incarcerated for drug crimes. the majority of those being non-violent drug crimes. and so i think when they sat down they just wanted to tell their stories about what they were in for and, as well, just amazingly long sentences, the result of mandatory minimums because of the war on drugs that was started in the '80s. >> shane smith, thanks for being with me, man. i really appreciate your time. "fixing the system" airs this sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on hbo. breaking news on the case of bella bond, the toddler that became known as baby doe. her mother and father now being arraigned on murder charges. we're getting more details on the case from that courtroom. major developments on 2016. two of the leading candidates for the gop nomination are drawing criticism over comments they made or didn't make regarding muslims in the united states. and minutes ago the pope arriving in cuba. crowds expected at his second mass 30 minutes from now. those stories and a whole lot more next on the run down. well, did you know that playing cards with kenny rogers gets old pretty fast? ♪ you got to know when to hold'em. ♪ ♪ know when to fold 'em. ♪ know when to walk away. ♪ know when to run. ♪ you never count your money, ♪ when you're sitting at the ta...♪ what? you get it? i get the gist, yeah. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. across america, people like badominique wilkins...er ...are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza®. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar. but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza®. he said victoza® works differently than pills. and comes in a pen. victoza® is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. it's taken once a day, any time. victoza® is not for weight loss, but it may help you lose some weight. victoza® is an injectable prescription medicine that may improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise. it is not recommended as the first medication to treat diabetes... ...and should not be used in people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. victoza® has not been studied with mealtime insulin. victoza® is not insulin. do not take victoza® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer... ...multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to... ...victoza® or any of its ingredients. symptoms of a serious allergic reaction... ...may include itching, rash, or difficulty breathing. tell your doctor... ...if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. serious side effects may happen in people who take victoza®... ...including inflammation of the pancreas (pancreatitis). stop taking victoza®... ...and call your doctor right away if you have signs of pancreatitis such as severe pain that will not go away in your abdomen or from your abdomen to your back... ...with or without vomiting. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take... ...and if you have any medical conditions. taking victoza® with a sulfonylurea or... ...insulin may cause low blood sugar. the most common side effects are headache, nausea... ...diarrhea, and vomiting. side effects can lead to dehydration... ...which may cause kidney problems. if your pill isn't giving you... ...the control you need... ...ask your doctor about non-insulin victoza®. it's covered by most health plans. mother nature can turn in an instant; sfx: drum beats don't turn back. ♪ introducing the new 2016 ford explorer. be unstoppable. ♪ this is my fight song... good morning once again. i'm jose diaz-balart this morning from washington, d.c. just in time for fall, things are heatsing up on the presidential campaign trail. this morning two of the leading candidates for the gop nomination drawing criticism over comments they made regarding muslims in the united states. on sunday, ben carson told chuck todd on "meet the press" that muslims should not be president. take a listen. >> do you believe that islam is consistent with the constitution? >> no, i don't. i do not. i would not advocate that we put a muslim in charge of this nation. i absolutely would not agree with that. >> now those comments from carson come on the heels of a town hall meeting in new hampshire where donald trump did not disagree with the voter who described muslims as a "problem." he called in to the "today" show earlier this morning. >> i've never had a problem with muslims. you do have an individual problem where you have some radicals that are causing problems and i can be politically correct. somebody said how can you say that? i said give me a break, it's all over the world, that's all we are talking about. you turn on the nightly news, newscasts, no matter where you are, you have a problem. people don't have to admit that, savannah. they can try and keep it nice and cool, but the fact is you do have a problem and it's a problem that has to be addressed. >> i think there is this issue of radical islam but that's not what this voter said. he said the problem in this country is muslims. i guess my question to you is would you have corrected him if he had said something like, the problem in this country is christians. or the problem in this country is the jewish people. >> i assume, savannah, that he was talking about radical islam. >> msnbc is following the story this morning. what's ben carson saying this morning? >> his camp is saying he a he not going to bar anything from running for president that would, of course, violate the first amendment. he is offering a statement of sorts to try to smooth this over. he says his great respect for the muslim community, this is communications director speaking, but there is a huge gulf between the faith and practice of the muslim faith and our constitution and american values. this sort of seems to have met the fact that american values were founded on freedom of religion, religion including being muslim and not being christian which seems to be only religion that dr. ben carson is providing these things for. his campaign is also saying that you could be a muslim person and still run if you disavow your faith. i don't see any candidate saying, yeah, everyone should disavow their faith before they go into the white house. >> just to be clear, someone in his campaign said that. >> yes. that was doug watts his communications director. >> they should disavow their faith if they are muslims and want to run for president. >> no, no, i'm sorry. if a muslim person wanted to run for office they could forgo their religion in favor of sort of more secular views. >> what did the polls say about how americans view religion when it comes to voting for president? >> i think this is why we see all of these candidates are being so careful and cautious about this. only 45% of republicans say they'd vote for a muslim president. this is a republican primary race and they are feeding that base. more democrats say they would vote for a muslim president but muslims have sort of the lowest ratings of people who say they'd vote for someone of that will religion. christians and catholics and protestants enjoy far higher acceptance amongst the american people in terms of who they want to be their president. >> interesting when you look at numbers. more americans would vote for a muslim than an atheist even though it is pretty much close. those are interesting numbers we are showing. jane, great to see you. turning now to the democratic race, there are a flurry of headlines surrounding vice president joe biden. sources telling nbc news the vice president is increasingly looking to throw his hat in the ring. this is a top aide to the vice president's wife, dr. jill biden, knocks down earlier reports that say she may not be on board with iran. it is all overshadowing some very good news for hillary clinton. a new national poll out this morning shows her lead growing among democratic voters. but joe biden remains the 2016 wild card. nbc's kristin welker is in little rock, arkansas where hillary clinton campaigns today. start with these headlines around joe biden. what can you tell us? >> reporter: well, jose, good morning. my sources are telling me that you are absolutely right, vice president biden increasingly eyeing a run as he sees a real potential path to victory. but publicly he's still making it very clear he hasn't made a decision. here's what he told "american" magazine. take a listen. >> we're just not -- you know, not quite there yet and i may not get there in time to make it feasible to be able to run and succeed because there are certain windows that will close. but if that's it, that's it. >> reporter: jose, part of what's going on is that biden supporters want to make sure there is a path for him to run, should he decide to get into the race. another indications of that, his team knocking down reports that his wife, as you say, dr. jill biden is not on board with iran. her communications director sending me this statement late last night. it reads, "of course dr. biden would be on board if her husband decides to run for president, but they haven't made that decision yet." the vice president has been very clear that he is still mourning the loss of his son beau and he doesn't know if he would have the emotional fortitude to run for president. the clinton campaign watching this very closely. secretary clinton will be campaigning here in arkansas a little bit later an today. take a look at these new poll numbers, jose. you made mention of them. she has widened her lead in a general election among democrats. take a look at this. secretary clinton gets 42% of democrats nationally to sanders' 24%. the last time this poll was conducted she only led sanders by ten points. that's with vice president biden in the race. if biden gets out of the race, look at what happens to clinton's lead. it jumps to 57% to sanders' 28%. so the clinton campaign has to like these numbers and it tees up certainly her campaign stop here in arkansas a little bit later on today. >> kristin welker in little rock, thank you. following developments from the boston area and the death of 2-year-old bella bond known for the past three months as baby doe. this morning her mother rachelle bond and her mother's boyfriend are being arraigned. here's the assistant district attorney in this case just moments ago. >> when he said to miss bond that it was good news that she was getting clean because she would get bella back, miss bond broke down crying and said i'll never see my daughter again. he asked her what do you mean by that. he responded michael mccarthy killed her and i'm accessory after the fact because i helped him get rid of her body. >> nbc's ron mott is outside the courthouse in dorchester. ron, bring us up to date. >> reporter: hey there, jose. good morning. details coming from this assistant district attorney are pretty chilling. think once the community finds out some more about what happened to this little girl the anger, which is already at a fever pitch, is going to go into probably unprecedented territory here. what we have learned from the assistant district attorney is that bella bond's mom, rachelle bond, apparently told a life-long friend that the baby was taken away by dcf. that's the department of of children and families. to give her some time, i suppose, to figure out what they were going to do now that she knew her boyfriend, michael mccarthy, had bunched this child repeated will i in the abdomen until she died an then put her in the refrigerator. after while the questions kept coming back from this life-long friend and apparently the conscience started to work on rachelle bond and she eventually said to this friend that i'll never see my child again. the friend said why is that? she says because michael mccarthy killed her. apparently rachelle bond according to what we are hearing from the assistant district attorney then worked with michael mccarthy in trying to figure out what to do with the body. the body stayed in the refrigerator for some time, then she was placed in a contractor's crash bag. they drove apparently to the south end of boston to the seaport area over there. she says according to the assistant district attorney, she, being rachelle bond, put some weights in this bag, then put the trash bag in a duffel bag and threw it into boston harbor. body washed up on deer island which is a little to the east of there near boston's logan airport and a woman walking her dog on june 25th, her dog apparently had some interest in that bag. went over to look at it and the woman asked a person nearby to go with her to check out what was in the bag. they opened the bag and found what looked to be the limb of a small child, and of course they called the companies and that's how this all got started. now for almost 90 days the police and community had no idea who this child was. but as cliff van zandt was reporting in the last hour, because no one in this area had reported a child of that age missing, it became pretty clear to the authorities at least that they were looking at someone who was perhaps the caregiver of this child. the question again that a lot of people are going to be asking is, given this mother's history, having lost two of her kids to the state, why did the state not check more often on bella's condition given what happened to the older children. we've also learned that michael mccarthy, according to a friend who apparently stayed with this couple for a couple of weeks over this past winter but left because he says he was uncomfortable with how they treated this young child. that apparently they yelled at her a lot, both the mother around the boyfriend, and that one time he observed bella being locked into a closet for up to an hour and she's yelling at screaming trying to get out of the closet. but that michael mccarthy apparently was getting involved in cults and that he was apparently thinking of himself as someone who could exorcise demons, that he thought this child, because she was a 2, 2 1/2-year-old child and probably had fits and cried, that michael mccarthy somehow thought she was possessed by evil demons and that's why he allegedly decided to kill her. details coming out of this courtroom behind me are pretty disturbing, jose. >> ron mott, thank you very much. disturbing indeed. we are keeping our eyes on that courtroom where bella bond's mother and boyfriend are being arraigned. live pictures right now. we'll bring you more from inside in just a couple of minutes. developing now in cuba, we're just minutes away from pope francis celebrating mass after arriving in an eastern city a short time ago. he's in the middle of a trip to the caribbean ahead of his visit to the united states. on sunday he met with both fidel and raul castro after holding mass in revolution square. the pope did not meet with anyone opposed to the cuban government. let's go live to havana. claudio, what else is on the pope's schedule today? >> reporter: well, the pope now is in this part of the island. this is the first time any pope visit that particular town even though there are -- pope francis is the third pope who visited this island in the last 20 years. now this is not only the birthplace of raul and fidel castro, it is also important in a religious sense because it is where it is said that the patron saint of this island, the lady of charity made her first miraculous appearance in the 17th century. now pope francis will hold a mass there in about 20 minutes from now. we do expect 100,000 to 200,000 people to attend. then he will fly to santiago -- tomorrow morning he will hold a mass in the cathedral that bears the name of the patron saint before he flies out to washington where he is expected to land at 4:00 p.m. tomorrow. >> thank you. [ speaking spanish ] a new shriver report snapshot poll of american catholic give some insight on how they feel towards the pope. 86% think it is a good thing for the pope to emphasize issues like income\s and preserving the environment. 95% support his openness to those who have divorced or remarried. 92% think divorced catholics should somebody allowed to take communion. 81% support pope francis' call for greater acceptance when it comes to the lgbt opportunity, though only 245% think they should be allowed to marry in the church. here to further discuss the findings of the poll the director of the university of notre dame's center forred study of american catholicism. thank you for being with me. based on this poll's findings do catholic americans believe the church is moving in the right direction? >> many of them do. those are high numbers for sure. it just shows that for the last 2 1/2 years pope francis has resonated with u.s. catholics in a way that members of -- that the local church has not. they are higher numbers than we see catholics' view of their own pastor other their local bishops. >> poll shows people are happy with the pope living up to his namesake's philosophy, that is caring for the less fort nat. when it comes to same-sex marriage and abortion, catholics in the u.s. appear to be more conservative. are you surprised by this? >> not at all. i think it is important to remember that those numbers really are misleading in the sense that pope francis transcends a lot of categories we use in the united states and issues that divide us and the way we categorize ourselves as on the left or right is not how he focuses which is on the lens of the gospel. people can't put him in one category or the other. >> would you agree that even though semantics may have changed a little bit in the catholic church under pope francis, the dogma has not changed? >> that's exactly right. this pope is not changing dogma. he will not. what he is changing are attitudes. i think he's also showing that he's willing to break with tradition. he showed that from the very first moments of his pontificate. tradition is something that can be changed in catholicism. >> and certainly in a franciscan way, he has changed, for example, where the pope lives. the garments he uses. the chairs he sits on. how he goes from one place to another. and those do matter. >> they matter a great deal. that's what endeared people to him right away and he continues to do that. but it is more than just the symbol. he's very good at using those symbols. he shows that he's practicing what he preaches. >> kathleen, thank you for being with me. it is a pleasure to see you. >> thank you, jose. lots ahead still on "the rundown." live from washington, d.c. up next, culture wars erupting on the campaign trail. the latest battle front comments about muslims. we'll look at what's stirring up national debate. former political director for george w. bush joins me live to weigh in. when you do business everywhere, the challenges of keeping everyone working together can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. at&t has the tools and the network you need, to make working as one easier than ever. virtually anywhere. leaving you free to focus on what matters most. thlook what i got.p. oh my froot loops! [sniffs] let's do this? get up! get up! get up! get up! loop me! bring back the awesome yeah! yeah! yeah! with the great taste of kellogg's froot loops. follow your nose! and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night,blind. and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24. learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com. there are 132 days until the iowa caucuses and every day seems like there is a new headline in the 2016 race. today the headline deals with muslims in the u.s. ben carson and donald trump are under fire for what they said and haven't said about islam. how will this latest rhetoric play out for the national republican party? with me now, former political director for president george w. bush. matt, great seeing you. help our viewers understand what's going on and why is this happening now in the gop primary? >> well, it's a function of having 16 candidates, jose. you have candidates that are -- come from every stripe of our party and you have ben carson after this weekend with his opinions on whether or not there should be a muslim president. i think you have most of the other candidates saying, hey, we have religious pluralism in this country and you ought to have the right to practice whatever religion you want. if you want to run for president, fantastic. >> look at what we've heard so far from all these 400 candidates that are running for republican party, for past couple of months -- let's just go over some of them. some have said that the folks that cross over from mexico without documents are rapists and killers and horrible people. you have some say one calling carly fiorina ugly. now that a muslim should not be president. it's more than just one. and then is it coincidental those are the ones that are leading the pack? >> yeah. look, what's happening in the republican party is something that makes a lot of people inside the beltway incredibly nervous. these outsiders, these people have not spent one day in elected office are leading the pack. when it comes to donald trump, they're really worried because he's running for president in this kind of unplugged reality show type of way where he just says what he thinks and the strange thing is, that's resonating. but i don't think that's just a republican phenomenon. you look at the democratic side, their chosen candidate, hillary clinton, who's very scripted seems to be losing out to bernie sanders who is just telling people what they want to hear. i think in american politics there is this authenticity people like. is there true, but it is what that authenticity says that then matters because it's not just what you get out of someone, it's what they're saying that makes it matter. >> that's very fair. there's no question that we've had points in this -- during this republican contest where some things that were said that i would rather not have been said and i think it would be better if all these candidates focused their attention on what they want to do to make america better and also what we do to grow our coalition. if republicans run the same strategy they did in '08 and in '12, i believe we'll lose again. we have to expand the numbers of people that believe conservative solutions are the right solutions. >> talk about that 2012 autopsy, the gop famously released. did anybody in the party read it? >> yes. yeah, a lot of people read it. >> none of the candidates did -- apparently very few of the candidates did. and whoever did, they aren't doing very well. >> you know this, the rnc has an important role to play but it is a smaller role because of the way campaign finance rules have been changed and these super pacs have taken their place to a large extent. so these candidates, guess what? they're doing it the way they want to do it which is one of the reasons we have so many candidates. there's no centralized control over our democratic nominating process. i actually think that's a good thing. >> matt, when you hear most of the undocumented that cross over are rapists and killers and some are good people and you haer this latest, what goes through your head? >> well, i'm married to a hispanic, cuban-american. and i believe, thank god, that her family came to this country. i believe that the hispanics who have come to this country and people who have come to this country from other places have made america better. i'm a republican who's pro-immigration. i think we made a mistake. i worked for president bush. think we made a mistake when we've also glossed over downsides of illegal immigration. we ought to just be honest -- it is a problem when our government doesn't understand who's here, who's overstaying their visa and this criminal element that i think president obama has made worse by letting people out of detention. that's a problem, we ought to get rid of that problem. we do have to secure our borders but we have to understand that our economy, not just the moral and cultural questions, our economy, we need to have immigrants to supplant jobs in our economy. we ought to have that conversation. i still hope that we can kol together and get something done in these areas because it is a tragedy that we have a completely broken system. >> i think everybody agrees it is a broken system and the first people that want to see those criminals, rapists, the people who shoot and kill young men and women are are the undocumented community that have to live with them and can't call the police because they live with them and they're the fir ones to be victimized by it but they can't call the police for fear of them being deported as well. something could be done and both sides agree it is broken. >> i agree with that, but the simple fact is this -- we have to be careful with lawlessness in our society. we have to find a way -- look. i worked for president george w. bush and i'm listening to donald trump. you know what george w. bush said what all the pro-immigration crowds said had a great plan? he said people should pay their fines, put in their paperwork, go home. and those who were seen as someone we want to bring back will go through an expedited process. they call it a touchback. donald trump is saying he's using much different language. he's saying everybody's got to go home and all the good ones have to come back. if you look at what these folks are saying with be they are not that far off. take birth right citizenship out of it, they're not that far off. >> president bush never said deport them all en masse. >> the language is different. >> not only is the language different, matt, the fact of deporting 11 1/2 million people that have u.s. born children many of them, and that those kids would also be deported to another country, boy, is that different. >> i'm just saying george w. bush said the same thing in his bipartisan plan which was that everybody had to do a touchback. everybody had to go home, then they could come back. >> matt, thanks. a quick check on wall street. right now the dow is up pretty big. 135 points up. after a lot of turbulence last week. remember that whole federal reserve, was it going to raise rates? 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federal reserve announcement to hold interest rates steady. all three greens today. let's check in with cnbc's mandy drury. >> there was a lot of turbulence the end of last week after the fed essentially raised concerns about the global economy. people were sort of thinking, i've got to reset our expectations in terms of the earnings that will come out of growth stocks, those kind of stocks that are tied in to growth in the global economy. right. that was what was going on at the end of last week. now just recovering a little bit. we've had a lot of volatility. couple of days down. today we're on firmer footing. we' we've already had a number of fed officials speaking, including this morning on cnbc, saying there is still a powerful case to hike which could be in october. by the way, he is a non-voting member of the fed so just keep that in mind. but also we got some big greek developments. the former prime minister alexis tsipras getting the chance to form the government for the second time this year. he won a decisive victory in the greek early national elections. the usual thing, he's promising to revive the banks there, promising to fix the shattered economy. we've heard this before. >> he needs a coalition. right? the coalition was maybe to rule some extreme right wing -- >> this is it. nothing is set in stone at this stage. so i would imagine for a little while we've had greece off the headlines. we've been very focused on what's going on in the slowing chinese economy but i have a feeling that maybe greece is going to be back on the headlines a little bit more. you've got tsipras demanding debt relief from creditors. so a lot of this rhetoric is stuff we've heard before. that story is not going away any time soon. >> some of the most difficult things they have to do in greece in order to accept what the international money has yet to be instituted. that's going to cause major problems there. mandy, always a pleasure. i want to go to cuba where pope francis will hold his second mass on the island there. he just arrived a short while ago. this is now in the central plaza there. hundredses of thousands of cubans attended the pope's first mass on sunday. later today he will travel to santiago, meeting with catholic clergy there, all ahead of the pope's arrival in the united states. we'll take a short break. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? mother nature can turn in an instant; sfx: drum beats don't turn back. ♪ introducing the new 2016 ford explorer. be unstoppable. ♪ this is my fight song... misswill turn anan asphalt parking lot into a new neighborhood for san franciscans. a vote for "yes" on "d" is definitely a vote for more parks and open space. a vote on proposition "d" is a vote for jobs. campos: no one is being displaced. it's 40% affordable units near the waterfront for regular people. this is just a win-win for our city. i'm behind it 100%. voting yes on "d" is so helpful to so many families in our city. we're following developments in the death of 2-year-old bella bond. moments ago in dorchester, massachusetts in a courtroom there, a judge ordered 35-year-old michael mccarthy to be held without bail on murder charges and his girlfriend, 40-year-old rachelle bond is being held on $1 million bail accused of being an accessory to murder. we just heard from the prosecutor who described in horrifying detail what happened the night bella died. >> she found mr. mccarthy standing over bella who was on a bed which the mattress was on the floor standing over bella with his hand near her abdomen. when miss bond looked at bella, her head appeared to her to be swollen and her face was red. she went to her daughter and picked her up and she told police that she knew at that moment that her daughter was dead. she asked mr. mccarthy what he had done and he did not tell her but he said she was a demon anyway, it was her time to die. >> let me bring in msnbc contributor and former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney seema ire. let's just start with what we just heard from the assistant d.a. he says mccarthy said little bella was a demon, punched her repeatedly in the stomach. all of this information apparently came from the mother? >> right. >> i'm just having a tough time processing all this. >> it is tough, jose. i can ep had you with it because it is just impossible it articulate the horror of what baby bella had to go through. but what it does legally, it corroborates the elements of the law. that there was this murder, and then the mom actually participated in conspiring to conceal the murder. and so therefore instead of being a witness to what happened, calling the police like any normal person would, she then jumps in and becomes a partner to the crime. >> not only that, a partner of such horrific details. putting the baby in the refrigerator for some time. you know what i keep thinking? this may not have a legal aspect to it but where's everybody else? where is the rest of the world? she has a biological father. there are people that clearly the mother had a past of not being very good or cautious with her children. where is everybody else? >> that's a great point, jose. how come none of the neighbors, none of her friends, playmates, nobody noticed and wondered what happened. but i also just want to point something out legally we are all waiting to find out -- that's the autopsy. i'm sure you recall originally the autopsy didn't indicate any trauma or foul play, but that autopsy that had been done a while ago i believe that certain samples were taken from the body. they're being tested, advance testing could show that trauma, those punches that were repeatedly inflicted on the baby's tummy. that should provide more evidence to prosecute these two. >> just look at these pictures. can we just take off the mother for a minute. i just want to see the little girl. seema, thank you very much. but to think about a 2-year-old little girl, what her life must have been like, then how her life ended and that we're seeing this now develop in a courtroom is just horrific. seema, thank you very. now i want to go back to cuba and take you to live pictures of pope francis celebrating mass in the eastern city of holguin. the pontiff in the middle of his trip to that country which will wrap up on tuesday, tomorrow, before heading to the united states. let's hear just a few seconds of this. ♪ ♪ >> religious music to the beat and sound of the cuban musical dna. what impact will this visit have on cuba? columnist for the young voices series of the national catholic reporter, kate, good morning. thank you for being with me. what do you think this trip means for cuba? >> you know, i can't speak to cuba but i think that we're seeing a lot with this trip to cuba that we'll see right here in the united states. a little bit of diplomacy, a little bit of kissing babies and a lot of straight talk on poverty and service and issues that this pope has made really clear matter a lot to him and should matter a lot to the world. i'm looking forward to the pope coming here tomorrow to talk to our elected officials and challenge all of us really on these issues that matter like climate justice, immigrant justice, economic justice, i'm excited about it and my 4-year-old son is really excited. he wants to decorate our house for the pope. so he's a pope that speaks to all generations. >> it's interesting, because i think the fact is the pope seems unafraid to talk about issues and he's going to certainly be touching on these issues here in the united states which have direct relations to a lot of people in the united states. only four of the pope's speeches in the united states will be in english. the rest is going to be partially in spanish. he doesn't seem to be having that same level of consistency and clarity in cuba. he doesn't seem to be willing to challenge the status quo in that island as much as he is coming here and doing that here. >> well, the day is just getting started. i think if we learned anything from this pope every the last two years it is to expect the unexpected. i was walking down the street just a few blocks from here near union station and heard a young woman say i love this pope, he's a real bad ass. i think that's why a lot of people love him, because he's unafraid to speak hard truths to high powers and it will be interesting to see how the day unfolds in cuba but i think we can complete will i expect him to tackle some hard issues here in the united states. >> kate, thank you very much for being with me. i can guarantee you that i will not have that description under the pope any time in the near future. but i can see where that person told you why. now to the latest developments in the growing my grant crisis in europe. secretary of state john kerry who just wrapped up a three-day trip to europe to discuss the situation says the u.s. will significantly raise the number of worldwide refugees it will accept. that number increasing from 75,000 to 80,000 next year and rising to 1100,000 in 2017. >> as soon as we have an opportunity to try to up that we're welcome because america has always welcomed bringing more people in this these kinds of circumstances. >> let me bring in former white house middle east policy advisor, ambassador mark ginsburg. great to see you, ambassador. first, your reaction to this announcement. it is an uptick in the number of people we are going to be taking in. >> it is quite clear secretary kerry is doing what is absolutely necessary here. he was in germany meeting with our german counterpart and although 100,000 sounds like a lot, when you realize that there's 4 million refugees that are just fleeing syria alone and we aren't including iraq, afghanistan, or southern africa where many of these our people are coming from, it is really just a drop in the bucket. but listen. good for us. it's very important that we show the world into the united states is going to take some leadership role here. >> look at these pictures of people just clamoring to get into these trains. you were just this summer in europe. of course you've been dealing a lot with north africa and the middle east. this won't -- there's no end in sight to this. not just the people that have been displaced, internally in these countries they have lost their hopes and have been displaced internally and could leave at any moment. >> just think about what's happening right now. think of this as a wildfire in california. you have a situation in syria right now where half of the country -- half of 28 million people are displaced from their homes, jose. >> 14 million. >> 14 million people. and on the periphery of syria, in lebanon and jordan, there is not sufficient food to fees these people who are desperately looking for food. these are not muslims who are terrorists. these are people who are looking just to live their lives. they're decent people just wanting to raise their kids. they don't even have the medicine and food and hoursing because the united nations can no longer feed them. that's why they're fleeing. there's already millions in lebanon and jordan alone but there's not sufficient united nations and international food relief to be able to provide them the food. >> you mentioned jordan and you mentioned lebanon. two of the poorest countries of the area. they have been taking in refugees since 1948 and '49 and '50 and there are camps outside of beirut that are just filled with generations of people that left their countries and now they're seeing this increase come in. how can any country deal with it? >> it is impossible for us to comprehend until you are actually there and see the outflow that's taking place, to see the crowded conditions, the lack of sanitary conditions. look, if it was you or my family in the same situation, we would desperately try to flee that situation as well. there are palestinians camps, palestinian refugees still in lebanon right now, still in jordan. these people have never been resettled in their own homelands. so we have a situation right now where syrians -- it is like a tidal wave of refugees that are fleeing syria alone. >> ambassador, you've got afghanistan. you've got people from pakistan. you've got people from northern africa. you've got people from iraq. it just seems like taking in people is a short-term band-aid solution to something that is a massive huge cut that doesn't seem to be closing. >> jose, when you go et right down to it, and anyone who understands the situation will say, until ba slar shar al assa president of syria, goes, until he stops using violence against his own people, the flow of refugees is going to continue from syria. we have to get to the root of the problem, or else there will be no tail end of the problem in sight. >> you have to add the other players destabilizing that region. let's not forget iran, iran's support of syria, let's not forget about syria's involvement in lebanon. the part of lebanon that's not controlled by lebanese. >> absolutely. the problem is that we have avoided these issues. >> ambassador, always a pleasure to see you. i could talk to you forever but we do have so much to cover today. a new interview with vice president joe biden can tell us more about his plans to possibly check out the democratic race. those details are coming up on "the rundown." it's more than a network and the cloud. it's reliable uptime. and multi-layered security. it's how you stay connected to each other and to your customers. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions, including an industry leading broadband network, and cloud and hosting services - all with dedicated, responsive support. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, yore free to focus on growing 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"let's celebrate the history of one conversion. he h--" he himself in his evangelical tells about the encounter that occurred in his life. he introduces us to a look game that was capable to transform history. the pope right now holding mass in -- his second mass in cuba yesterday in havana, today in holguin. later today he travels to santiago, cuba, cuba's second largest city, all ahead of the pope's arrival in the united states tomorrow. but up next, why it is looking more likely vice president joe biden will jump moot 2016 presidential race. history at the emmy awards, viola davis becoming the best black woman to win best actress. >> the only thing that celebrates women of color from anything else is opportunity. you cannot win an emmy for roles that are simply not there. the democratic race for president seems to be hinging in many ways on one man this morning. so far he isn't even in the race. sources close to vice president biden tell nbc news he's getting closer to jumping in the race and the biden path to victory is feasible. but here is what he's telling "american" magazine in an interview last week and out this morning. >> we're just not -- you know, just not quite there yet, and i may not get there in time to make it feasible to be able to run and succeed because there are certain windows that will close. but if that's it, that's it. >> here with me now, the national journal's lawrence fox and syndicated radio host, richard fowler. thank you both for being with me. every time we hear about the vice president possibly jumping in and you jump in, you jump out. what is it? >> he seems like he has the support of his wife jill biden but he still may not get there in time. of course we have a debate coming up and other markers he has to meet if he wants to run a competitive campaign. it is very unclear whether or not he's going to be able to get to a point where he's able to make a decision in time to make this campaign feasible. >> what's that time? in other words, is there a really concrete line that you have to announce by in order to be feasible? >> well i think the more time you have, obviously the more time you have to build a campaign staff, fund raise, gets kind of tricky when you are trying to win in iowa or new hampshire and you only have a month or two to do it. that's when it gets very difficult. the more you are not in the debate the more you are not part of the discussion about serious 2016 candidates. >> the more you are not in a debate, the more you are not an official candidate, the less you are getting arrows thrown your way as well. from that's exactly raight. but if he waits too late he could lose half the delegates. he won't make all the filing dates in the respective primaries. i think if he gets in, does he have a strategy to win and does he have enough time to do it. i think that is the big concerns for him going into this race and i think that's what people are trying to consider as he makes his decision. >> as we get closer and closer do you think he still has the time to make a feasible run? >> has to get in before october to make a feasible run. if he doesn't get -- after october 1st i pretty much would say he's dead in the water. his win strategy would be to not focus on iowa, not focus on new hampshire and go right to south carolina where he can talk to african-american voters, talk to some labor households. that's an entry point right there. but if he doesn't announce it before october 1st it is highly unlikely he will jump in, and two, win enough primaries even to be competitive against hillary clinton. >> richard, si or no. you think he is getting in? >> i don't know. i got to be honest with you. >> si or no? >> i think he at this point isn't going to get into the race. >> interesting. thank you both for being with me. that wraps up "the rundown" on msnbc today from washington, d.c. thank you for the privilege of your time. 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