Transcripts For MSNBCW The ReidOut 20201119

To behave like an dictator, refusing to accept that the voters have spoken, erroneously declaring victory, bulldozing over our democracy and hunkering down in the white house, refusing to relinquish the reins of government or even to admit hes been fired by the American People. Trump is no longer an autocrat in the making, hes already there. In an election one has lost, an election that has zero evidence of fraud, thats what autocrats do. Trumps focus is on his power and his ego, and perhaps on that orange jumpsuit that may be waiting once he leaves office. His focus is nowhere near his duty to protect the American People from a raging pandemic which has now taken more than 251,000 lives. And behind every strongman is his supine party, the fixers and the kingmakers and the thugs who enable him. Trumpian mascots like mitch mcconnell, william barr and Lindsey Graham, seen here fist bumping Vice President elect Kamala Harris on the senate floor, despite his claims of voter fraud in the election and his suspicion of votes cast in blue cities where the black people live. Its why youre seeing secretaries of state in georgia and arizona receiving Death Threats for overseeing elections that did not serve trump, and now electors are getting sued for doing their sworn duty. The Trump Campaign filed a lawsuit challenging nevadas election results, including targeting a president ial elector who happens to be a homeless veteran. This is what we typically see in banana republics, in mafia states, but here we are seeing it unfurl in a country that used to pride itself as a beacon of democracy, where now a u. S. President can casually fire an official who pointed out the truth about the absence of Election Fraud. Or he can stack every corner of government with lackeys who will do his bidding, from the Supreme Court to the defense department, to the General Services administration where the one official who can hand over the keys to the transitioning president elect is refusing to do so. With sources telling cnn that she is basing her decision on what she sees as the precedent set by the 2000 election, where there was not a clear winner for more than a month. Each day that the Republican Party does not condemn this behavior is another day the party normalizes antidemocratic actions, actions that will get further baked into our government and our institutions and our belief systems. And if these schemes dont succeed for trump, they will one day for someone else. The atlantic describes as the next racist demagogue who may not be as clownish or as incompetent. Joining me now is former cia director john brennan, author of undaunted my fight against americas enemies at home and abroad, patrick gaspard, and maya wiley, former assistant u. S. Attorney and new york marital candidate. Thank you for being here. Mr. Brennan, i want to go to you on this. In the washington post, written, how western media would cover the u. S. Election if it happened in another country. Im just going to read a little bit of it. The United States, the former british colony, already rocked this year by ethnic conflict and mass protest by extrajudicial killings by police may finally have a new leader following a disputed president ial election. Trump, however, is refusing to leave power and there are fears the fractured nation may be pushed over the edge, destabilizing the western hemisphere. Thats how it would sound if we were covering an election in a foreign country, but now we are that country. What do you make of this dissent . Well, obviously what donald trump is engaged in is the behavior weve seen in many authoritarian countries around the globe where individuals try to retain power by all means necessary and donald trump, i think, has demonstrated time and time again that hes not going to adhere to not only the norms and standards that are expected in the office of the presidency, but also the requirements that really have the United States National Security hanging in the balance. The fact that hes acting as a spoiled juvenile, and thats an insult to spoiled juveniles, quite frankly, that he is not facilitating the transfer of power of the executive branch to joe biden and his Incoming Administration, i think is outrageous. Because whether were dealing with covid or whether were dealing with international issues, that transition, which has been honored by every president certainly during my career and has allowed the Incoming Administration to be able to get up to speed quickly on these very, very challenging issues, this is something that must happen. And the fact that the members of the Republican Party are still allowing donald trump to continue with this tantrum, i think, is despicable. Yeah, and, you know, patrick, you and i share both family connections to the congo. What donald trump is doing is something we saw from the south African Nationalist party until they were finally toppled and Nelson Mandela became president and was released from president in the 1990s. We are the type of country that maybe the Carter Country needed to oversee our election. Joy, thanks for having me on. You know, i served with john brennan and he does not get that heat about anything in public, he keeps his cool. It gives you an idea the extent of the crisis were in right now. Youre absolutely right. This is the type of behavior we see from authoritarians in instances that we condemn. The secretary of state mike pompeo recently put out statements of concerns about violence and clashes following the elections in belarus and tanzania. Two years ago the Trump Administration was making all kind office declarations about the corruption, the fraud and the challenges in the transition of power in the drc. So youre right that traditionally the United States is the broker of Election Integrity in places all around the world, and its astonishing to see this being played out here in the u. S. , but i have to say, joy, there isnt a single thing that donald trump is doing right now that any of us could not have anticipated. Those of us who invested in planning scenarios about this expected this. The problem isnt donald trump. The problem is the Republican Leadership in the senate, in the house, in the states where they have authority over election outcomes. Theyre not doing what some extraordinary secretaries of states are doing, calling out the lies, calling out the danger and the damage to democracy and educating their constituents and voters about what this does to our norms in the future. Incredibly dangerous. Yeah, indeed. Theyre sort of acting more like a douma than an american political party. A russian douma. Maya, were going to have to talk at some point about your run for mayor. Youre running for an executive position in which, you know, you run and you try to win your base, but then you actually have to govern those who voted for you and those who didnt. Republicans seem to be trying to siphon out only republicans and say were going to directly govern for this sort of white, christian minority, emerging minority, and everyone else can go to hell. Even other republicans are being targeted by these sort of campaigns against any dissent against trumpism. Propublica reports, republicans began pressuring georgias republican secretary of state even before the election. Mr. Rasenberger to serve as honorary cochair of the Trump Campaign in georgia. He rejected to support trump publicly. They wanted this man who is supposed to be the guy counting the votes to basically behave like the governor. When he was secretary of state and was fixing the election so he could win it, theyre like this guy needs to do it not for himself, but for trump. Yeah, this is not democracy. This is hypocrisy. Because this is also the same party that claims that its so important for the federal government to defer to the powers of state. And we saw that hypocrisy as we saw states in some instances working so hard to ensure that voters could vote despite covid and spreading lies and disinformation about mailin voting, something to enable democracy in a way that would also protect Public Health. And yet folks then came to the polls. And now we see the efforts to suggest that that, too, was fraudulent. Which essentially means theres no means of voting where you cant claim fraud, even in the absence of evidence. And, you know, one thing that we have to remember here that has been so damaging to this democracy is that the attack on peoples ability to vote, particularly black and latino voters, really started in 2010. So as patrick said, you know, trump is a symptom of a Republican Party that has refused to Pay Attention to winning votes rather than making it more difficult. Rather, making it more difficult for people to vote who may not vote for them. And that, that is ultimately what is endangering our democracy. And patrick, your name was called. I mean, this is were at a point now where half of republicans believe that the election was rigged, right . So biden will have to govern in a country where a lot of republicans just think his election was ill legitimate. So you have that. You are also developing this narrative that votes cast by nonwhite people are in and of itself ill ledgegitimate, so wh does that mean going forward. Some of us remember serving in a white house where people like donald trump and others lifted up birtherism and all kinds of other claims to try to delegitimize the presidency of barack obama. But lets be clear that this goes back decades. When we talk about Voter Suppression today in this election cycle, we need to appreciate that going back through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, there are clear intercedan intercedeeintercede intercedents to this moment. In milwaukee, in atlanta, and so many other urban centers where clearly republicans are concerned that the more people who participate the less likely it is they are to succeed in their effort. So this is not a new thing. And i want to say, joy, shame on all of us, and this is not just republicans shame on all of us in this democracy that we dont make voting access a regular issue in our policy work beyond election cycles. So thats not something that we can hang exclusively on the Republican Party. Well, and but mr. Brennan, you know, the challenge that will be hung directly on the Republican Party will be that joe biden now going to have to govern a country and try to get a virus under control that doesnt care what party you are that is relentless and vengeful and murderous, and hes going to have to do that where youve got people on the right, you know, going after the governor of michigan, threatening to kidnap her and put her on trial, trying to impeach her for having mask mandates. Weve got republican governors who say freedom equals you dont have to wear a mask. I dont care what anybody says, what the science says. Hes going to be facing a country where a substantial minority dont believe covid is even real and its a National Security issue and a security issue for governors. What should he do . Well, i think hes going to have to try to restore the trust and faith in the administration, both domestically as well as internationally. Donald trump will soon be out of the white house. He was pass from the political scene, but the damage he has done to our standing, reputation in the world as far as being that beacon of democracy that really represents those democratic principles upon which our country was founded and which other countries are struggling through. The same thing here in the United States. As donald trump has fueled this polarization, he has sown great distrust within the american electorate, the american population. Therefore, joe biden is going to have to work really hard to highlight the fact that donald trump was an aberration, he was abnormal president. But, really, its going to be up to the members of the Republican Party to, quite frankly, repudiate the things that donald trump was standing for and doing. Until we have that broader repudiation, i think as people have said, he is symptomatic of a broader problem and challenge we have in this country, but what he has done over the last four years has accelerated and intensified some of these very, very disturbing trending. John i wish we had more time. His lies cant survive the 250,000 empty chairs that are going to be at thanksgiving tables two weeks from now. Indeed. Thats something we should all think about. Absolutely. Absolutely. Maya wiley, john brennan, patrick gaspard, thank you all very much. Up next on the reidout, the republicans deadly covid obstruction. Refusing to cooperate with joe bidens transition while redstate governors still dont take the virus seriously even with, as we said, 250,000 americans dead. And our Front Line Health Care workers are caught in the middle. Kplus. Were seeing the heartbreak that this virus causes. To have people go out in mick and deny the virus exists or the pandemic is a problem or people say its more important for me to not have to wear a mask if i dont feel like it, that is an incredibly difficult thing thing to see. Plus, which votes are trump and his conspirators trying to nullify . You guessed it, black voters in detroit, atlanta and milwaukee. Meanwhile, those who tell the truth about the transparency of the election get fired. Back with more of the reidout after this. After this by getting vaccinated. If youre 65 or older, get the superior flu protection of fluzone highdose quadrivalent. Its the only 65 flu vaccine with four times the standard dose. And its free with Medicare Part b. Fluzone highdose quadrivalent isnt for people whove had a severe allergic reaction to any flu vaccine or vaccine component, including eggs or egg products. Tell your Health Care Professional if youve ever experienced severe muscle weakness after receiving a flu shot. 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Get 5g included and save up to 400 dollars a year on the network rated 1 in customer satisfaction. Its your wireless. Your rules. Only with xfinity mobile. The coronavirus continues to smash devastating records all across the country. Today we reached another grim milestone. More than 250,000 americans have lost their lives to the virus. That is 250,000, i will say that again, 250,000 loved ones, friends, Health Care Workers, other essential workers. The list goes on. Gone on Donald Trumps watch. Because he has just given up and his administrations obstruction of president elect joe bidens transition threatens to put even more american lives at risk. Today pfizer announced its vaccine is the 95 effective at preventing the disease and it plans to ask the fda for emergency authorization within days. Moderna announced a similar success rate. Moderna did receive funding from the administrations operation warp speed to develop the vaccine, pfizer did not. In a town hall with front line medical workers today, president elect joe biden slammed trump for his lack of leadership and cooperation in combatting the pandemic. I cant do any of this until im sworn in or i can convince the president now to do things that should be being done already. I mean, theres hardly been a meeting thats taken place in the white house about any of this. Biden went on to say that hes urging all governors to adopt mandatory mask mandates and touted north dakotas governor for changing course on a mask mandate in his state. And its not a political statement. Its not about, you know, whether youre a tough guy or not a tough guy, whether youre its about patriotism. If you really care about your country, what you want to do is keep your neighbors and your family safe. Then theres south Dakota Republican governor christie gnome w kristi noem. 1,400 new cases and a sharp increase in deaths, but she defended her decision to not implement a mask mandate, claiming that states with them arent doing any better. I dont want to approach a policy or a mandate just looking to make people feel good. I want to do good. Joining me now is former Surgeon General and cochair of president elect bidens covid Advisory Board and dr. Lippy roy, internal medical physician. Doctor, im going to go to you first. Are masks simply a feelgood measure that dont make any difference in the spread of the disease of covid . Great to be with you today, joy. So what science tells us very clearly is that masks work to prevent the spread of covid19. Its not a source of debate in the scientific community, and if you also look at parts of our country which have put mask mandates in place versus those that have not, weve seen a slower rate of spread in those areas that have actually implemented mask mandates. So the message is simple, masks work. We should be encouraging people to use them. We should be making it easier, in fact, for people to access effective masks as well. And just to be clear, do masks protect lets say me from catching covid or do they primarily protect me from potentially spreading covid, mr. Murty. So masks benefit the person wearing the mask as well as the person around them. There was a time earlier on that the message many people were getting is that masks only protect the people around you but they dont afford you any protection. That is not the case. We now know that actually the mask can help everyone. So theres really no reason for us from a Public Health perspective to hold back on recommending masks. This is something that, again, we dont want to wait until its too late to implement mask mandates. Were seeing some states do it now in the midst of this extraordinary surge, but, really, this is a policy we should have in place everywhere because it saves lives. And, you know, dr. Roy, let me play for you the south dakota governor again, kristi noem, because she has been one of the most recalcitrant of governors in the entire country when it comes to mask mandates. Take a listen. Let me tell you, my people are happy. Theyre happy because theyre free. The governor in nebraska, pete ricketts, kim reynolds and iowa and i have been making decisions to protect our people and let them use personal responsibility to protect their way of life. Now, ill note, dr. Roy, most of the people dont have masks on. They didnt even do it for the pictures, the people behind her. The Positivity Rate in the past week of south dakota, and lets do the comparison of south dakota and new york. South dakota has a 56. 34 Positivity Rate. New york has 3 . And new york city is closing its schools at less than 3 . Your thoughts . Yeah, thats first of all, its good to be with you again, joy, and its good to see dr. Murthy again. You know, the narrative, the messaging that the governor is sending to her people, not only is it false, but its just downright reckless and harmful. She cares about the freedom of her people and wants them to be happy . I dont know how happy theyll be if and when they get severely ill and get hospitalized and, god forbid, are in an icu and put on a ventilator. None of thats considered freedom, right . And its not a coincidence that the same state that refuses to mandate masks or even encourage masks, which we all know save lives, saves lives, its not a coincidence that that same state has one of the highest if not the highest test Positivity Rate in the country. In stark contrast, new york city, which just passed the approached the 3 test Positivity Rate Just Announced School Closures in response. Thats government officials, electing officials making decisions based on data, speaking closely to their Health Advisers to make decisions to protect their people, joy. Yeah, indeed. And dr. Murthy, were seeing states sort of changing their minds. And some states moving toward it. But these are states having new restrictions. This is new as of this week. Michigan having new restrictions beginning on wednesday, something the governor is being threatened with impeachment. You have Andy Beshears kentucky restrictions, governor pulling the emergency brake and restrictions on businesses, the governor there, gavin newsom, but he does have restrictions going on right now. Is this what all the states need to do . If you can have every state take your advice, dr. Murthy, would you say everyone right now should have mask mandates and should there also be what are called lockdowns . Oh, we cant hear dr. Murthy. Were going to get your sound. Here we go. There we go. Weve got you. Go ahead. So masks go ahead, sir. Masks work and they need to be part of the Public Health measures that every state is taking. Because we see a surge across the country, it makes sense for governors to have mask man tates there is a larger challenge, states in many cases are making their own decisions and systems for when to trigger restrictions because we dont have a clear National Alert system. That states can rely on. Thats evidencebased and tells them when you hit a certain test Positivity Rate, certain number of cases, certain hospitalization rate, that these are the measures you put in place. And without that, you know, many states are having to make this up on their own. Joy, there is one last thing i want to emphasize here because its near and dear to me. The cost of the pandemic that were not measuring. And thats the impact and the toll this pandemic is take on our Health Care Workers. I want to emphasize this because you just earlier in this segment showed a clip of a Health Care Worker who was clearly struggling with the impact that this is having and wondering why people arent taking more measures to protect themselves and each other, and i want to emphasize many of these people are my friends, colleagues, theyre tough men and women, but many of them are really struggling as they once again seeing this surge that is filling their hospitals. This psychological injury and strain that many of our Health Care Workers are experiencing, this will stand as one of the most profound costs of this pandemic, and thats why its so important that we take every step possible to bend that curve, to wash our hands, wear a mask, keep distance from others so we can ultimately reduce the spread. Yeah. And one of those Health Care Workers is you, dr. Lipi roy. Youre out there in the world doing this. Are you concerned this news that there are going to be vaccinations available at some point when we dont know when its going to be will cause people to relax even more and say, oh, good, everythings going to be fine, i can just go ahead and have my thanksgiving . Yeah, im absolutely worried about that. People are going to become so lacks a lax and say, oh, i got this pill and i can relax my other Preventive Health measures. Im totally concerned about that. I want to follow up. Just today i got yet another text from a colleague, a former mentor of mine, who is now an Infectious Disease doctor, who wakes up at 5 00 a. M. , sees patients with transplant infections, bone marrow infections, who comes home late at night and says, you know, i understand people have covid fatigue, but if you want fatigue, follow me for the last nine months and ill show you what tired is. Yeah, absolutely. And also we definite want to all the Health Care Workers to the orderlies, the doctors, the nurses, everyone doing the hard work and taking huge risks for us. Thank you so much. Thank you both. And up next, former Trump Administration official jaron smith will tell us what it was like to be a rare highranking black official in the Trump White House and what he thinks about trumps baseless Election Fraud allegations. Stay with us. Darrells family uses gain flings now so their laundry smells more amazing than ever. Isnt that the dogs towel . Hey, me towel su towel. More gain scent plus oxi boost and febreze in every gain fling. Dove moisture renew blendshing is different. These beads represent dove moisturizers and work with your skin to produce new moisturizers. Unlike others, that dont. Proven lasting care for the skin you live in. Intronew advil dual action. The world of pain relief advil targets pain at the source. Acetaminophen blocks pain signals. 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In 2018 voters there granted former felons who have paid their debt to society the right to vote. Governor ron desantis and the Republican Legislature stepped in to weaken the measure. Requiring exfelons to pay any outstanding fines and fees first. The move was called the singlebiggest instance of voter disenfranchisement targeting black floridians in american history, since africanamericans face the disproportionate brunt of the criminal Justice System in florida as the rest of america. A court ruled it was intentionally designed to target africanamericans with almost surgeon precision. Republicans still zeroing in on cities with large black population like detroit, atlanta, philadelphia and milwaukee, and questioning the validity of their votes. And if you tell me that philadelphia doesnt cheat in elections, i will tell you and it just keeps going. On monday we learned that the georgia secretary of state felt pressured by senator Lindsey Graham to toss ballots in certain counties. And last night two republicans from wayne county, michigan, home to detroit, refused to certify the vote tally. One of the republican canvassers, monica palmer, said that only votes from areas outside detroit, which just so happen to be predominately white, should happen to be certified. During public comments, watch as the two republicans were torn to shreds by a man named ned stabler. I just want to let you know that the trump stink, the stink of racism that you, hartman and palmer, have just covered yourself in, is going to follow you throughout history. Your grandchildren are going to think of you like bull connor or george wallace. Monica palmer and William Hartman will forever be known in southeastern michigan as two racists who did something so unprecedented that they disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of black voters in the city of detroit. By the way, two eventually backed down. The vote was certified. Today the Trump Administration announced a targeted recount of dane and milwaukee counties in wisconsin, which just so happen to have large black populations. The campaign didnt want to pay for recounts in the rest of the state. Go figure. For more, im joined by jaron smith, former Deputy Assistant to the president in the Trump Administration. Mr. Smith, thank you so much for being here. I want to start by ask you a pretty basic sort of bottom line question. Do you accept and believe that joe biden is the president elect of the United States . Well, i think we should just let the nation kind of run its course on the investigations and lawsuits on dealing with the vote, and once thats decided, we can confirm it. You know, i think if the election was leaning in trumps direction, we would want to run the course and make sure that every vote that was cast was appropriate. What investigations specifically . Well, i mean, theres a number of lawsuits that we filed, that the Trump Administration filed give me a specific one. Name me one. Name me one that has not already been thrown out. Well, im not going to get specific, im just saying very generally on but youre the one who said it. But hold on, you said that you think it should run its course on all the investigations so you ought to know what investigations you mean and what you are alleging happened. I wasnt being specific. I was meaning generally. Theres a number of different lawsuits that the Trump Administrations filed. Theres a number of different how many have that how many of those lawsuits have the Trump Administration and the Trump Campaign won . I mean, honestly, i havent been following it. So far . I think just generally. Wait, wait, wait, you havent been following it, but youre saying but hold on, youre saying you cant accept that joe biden is the president elect . You cant name me an investigation youre talking about specifically. Ill just tell you the answer. Theyve won 1 out of about 25 or 26. Theyre losing in case after case after case and state after state. Michigan has gone through wayne county, back down, they certified that. Theyre going to finish the recount in georgia. The secretary of state there, who is a republican, has said they found nothing that would overturn a 14,000vote race. So what specifically is it that you need in order to accept that joe biden is, in fact, the president elect of the United States . Just let it all run its course. I mean, theres still all of this stuff is not finished. Let what . I mean im just saying are you talking about Rudy Giulianis things . I mean, look, my whole thing is this, i dont work in the Trump Administration anymore. I dont work for the campaign. You asked me a general question about how i feel about the outcome of this and im just letting it run its course. Sure. I know that have a recount in florida for the al gore race, they let that run its course. Let it run its course. Let the people, everyone feel confident with the outcome of the election and well move forward. Im very confident that the countrys going to move forward with this and were going to deal with the problems of our nation. And im very confident that, you know, were going to get together in a very bipartisan manner and deal with the issues that are plaguing so many americans. Lets talk about some specifics. Because you said you dont work for the administration anymore. Then you should not be bound by having to be loyal to them out of being a member of the team anymore. Do you have an issue with the fact that the gentleman, mr. Krebs, chris krebs, who was in charge of Cyber Security certified that the election had no fraud, should say had no outside interference. Do you believe him . Well, look, i havent been following the politics of the day. Ive been focused on the center of events and opportunity, making sure that everybody have access to education. So youre not following the election really . Well, actually the postelection. Because youre saying you dont believe that you cant say to me just as an american citizen, just as an american that joe biden is the president elect, which you could hear pretty much on any news station, even on fox. Its pretty clear. He is. Sure. Well, i understand what youre saying, joy. All im saying is that i will its not what im saying. No, its not my opinion. Okay, let me ask you this question hold on, we dont have a ton of time. How do you reconcile as a black man in this country how do you reconcile as a black man in this country and a voter the fact that your party, the Republican Party, continually is focussing on and going after and trying to invalidate the votes of black people in detroit, in atlanta, in milwaukee, and only doing that in places where black people vote . Well, i would validate that trump got the biggest vote tally of africanamerican voters in 60 years. 60 years weve had the best number of nonwhite voters since nixon. And so i think no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. Im asking you. Hold on a second. Donald trump do you know what percentage of the black vote he got . Do you know what it was . Okay you dont know. Im going to reask you the same question, just as a black person in this country, how do you feel about how do you feel about this Campaign Going after the cities where black people vote . Dont you think that is racist . I mean, youre not even allowing me to talk and respond to you. Im happy to answer your questions, but if youre going to cut me off in the middle of it, were not going to have a productive conversation. Look i just need you to answer the question. Yeah, but im trying to answer the questions. These things arent okay. These things are significant and i want to talk about them from a policy point of view because thats how i look at things. Look, im going to wait for the election to kind of play its course, just like every other election that weve done in our lifetime. If the president had more vote tallies and biden has been behind and biden was contesting the vote we would be waiting for all that to finish and let the states certify and then well move on as a country. That happens. As it relates to the city as it relates to these cities and the voter turnout, a huge percentage of africanamerican voters voted for trump. An historical number of africanamericans sir, hold on do you seriously think that the reason that do you think that the reason that the Trump Campaign is going after detroit and going after atlanta is because these people all voted for trump . Are you trying to tell me that you think thats why theyre going after these cities because they voted for trump . Thats what you think. What im saying is i dont think its racist at all, joy, because everybody in detroit is not black. You dont . There are some white voters the vast majority of people in detroit voted for joe biden. Listen, all im saying youre asking me about racism in these different counties. Im not for suppressing the vote. I want everybodys vote to count. I encourage voter im not for Voter Suppression. So i cant really speak to that, but what i would say is that in all of these cities, you know, theyre not allblack cities. They have white voters there, too, so were looking at everyones vote and making sure everyone votes. I think thats what the Trump Administrations looking at. Its not a race thing well leave it. It is because these cities are where black people live, but it doesnt bother you. I think youve made that very clear. Thank you very much for being here. Have a wonderful evening. Thank you. Okay. I think were done. Thank you very much. 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He lied about trumps inauguration crowd size. And for the record, yes, it was smaller than president obamas. The latest of four Trump Press Secretaries is kayleigh mcenany. During her first performance, she claimed she would never lie to the American People. We had her word on that. Unfortunately, that word turned out to be as good as a degree from trump university. I would also note the president s long history of condemning White Supremacy and racism. He has a great record when it comes to the lgbt community. The president never downplayed the virus, once again, the president expressed calm. The president was serious about this. We were looking at the prospect of 2 Million People potentially perishing from the coronavirus in this country. The fact that we have come nowhere near that number is a testament to this president taking immediate action. You have pledged in this Briefing Room to never lie to the American People. 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Nbc news has learned he is closing in on his finalists for the administrations Top Communications jobs that could include a historic first, a black woman as White House Press secretary. Those being considered are Karine Jeanpierre who served as Kamala Harriss chief of staff and symone sanders, a Campaign Senior adviser. Joining me is Christina Greer from Fordham University and john podesta, former cochair of the obama biden Transition Team. Thank you both for being here. Christina, i will go to you first. Theres a long line of long list of black women mentioned in an essence article who went through part of the campaign who are now potentially up for positions in the administration. What would be the meaning and importance of that . I mean the symbolism of it, joy, should not be underestimated. Right now we are in the speculation phase. We are dealing with two women who are highly qualified. Theyve been very loyal to joe biden. Theyve delivered for joe biden. I think, you know, we also have to remember there are two sides of this relationship, as with any highpowered job. Obviously i think theyve both shown they could do the job. It is whether or not they want the job. It is one of the jobs where it is 25 hours a day. They would be undoing so much of the Trump Administration, they would be rebuilding trust with the American Public, and thats a lot of dedication to the American Public which theyve already given the American Public. I think they have to decide whether or not it is something they would want to do. But as far as having someone like simone or careen be the spokesperson for the president of the United States, especially with their ages as well, would really mean something. I think also to the rest of the world, not just the country. Yeah. Also i think to black women who delivered at the voting booth for joe biden and who delivered in the nomination to be honest with you as well. You know, i want to also play tom cotton, senator tom cotton of arkansas, mr. Podesta, speaking about another black woman who has been talked about as somebody who might be in the administration, one susan rice. Take a listen. I cannot imagine a Republican Senate confirming susan rice to any position. Remember, susan rice is the typhoid mary of the Obama Administration Foreign Policy. First of all, who is tom cotton to tell joe biden, president elect joe biden what to do, number one . What do you make of that kind of characterization of someone who is actually an esteemed Foreign Policy voice . Well, you are exactly right, joy. I think it is really despicable they continue to go after susan. She served this country with distinction as ambassador to the u. S. U. N. , united nations, as National Security adviser, the whole charge against her is trumped up. I think that i worked with her both in the Clinton Administration and the Obama Administration. Shes tremendously skilled. She would be a great asset to the biden harris administration. I hope they dont listen certainly to tom cotton who, frankly, doesnt know what he is talking about. Yeah, that too. You know, christina, you know, i know careen very well. Weve had her on the show. Ive had simone on as well, i know her. These are very smart women. Is there something to the idea that joe biden said, ill always have your back to black people, particularly black women who delivered for him. Is that something that would be important to that point of view, having the converse relationship where both sides are supporting one another, something Kamala Harris talked about on the debates . Yes, joy, obviously he started with the selection of Kamala Harris as his Vice President ial running mate. We have to think about the representation two ways, theres descriptive and substantive. He is not only thinking of two women descriptively as far as black women representing him and serving literally as his mouth piece, but the substantive representation, looking at their resumes, what theyve done over the past, not just the last few months working on the campaign but how they served the public in various capacities in other jobs. Substantively they are more than qualified to do the job. Right now the reason speculation is being thrown out there is there are so many other positions the two are qualified for as well. Yes. So when we think about how joe biden wants to represent black women, hes putting his money where his mouth is. We have many more appointments to see how he will do that. Yeah, absolutely. John, just talk about the picks you have seen so far, you know, the sort of diversity he is trying to achieve and also how difficult do you think it is to try to be staffing up a new government when the current government is refusing to allow them in to see the books and get the keys . Well, look, this has been a problem from the getgo with refusal of the gsa administrators to certify that he that biden and harris are the apparent winners. They need access. It is really causing a Public Health disaster to not let them have access to the information they need. But with respect to staffing up, that process can go on. It is going on. Hes already picked a Transition Team that is quite diverse, almost half of the people are people of color, more than half are women, and his white house picks are following in the same way. You know, i couldnt agree more with christina. It would be historic to have an African American woman in carins case, an lgbtq representative speaking from that podium. That is a critical job in the white house. Make no mistake about it. It is the place where you need to level with the American People, and notwithstanding that trump has devalued that job. It is a critical, important job. The press secretary needs direct access to the president and the Vice President so that she can do her job. Yep. Absolutely. And it would be it would definitely be a nice change to have people tell the truth from that podium. Thank you very much. That is tonights reid out. All in with chris hayes starts now. Tonight on all in the clown show coup attempt continues. The president asked the court to nullify bidens win and award electors to trump. Tonight on the multistate shake down. The griflter arguing on his behalf in court and why the Republican Party is standing by and watching. Plus, the white house thanksgiving guidance that could get people killed. For many people this is their final thanksgiving, believe it or not. What are we doing here . And why one governor in the middle of a massive outbreak still refuses to ask people to