At the white house, where president obama has just met with attorney general eric holder. What can you tell us about that meeting . Well, we know that the attorney general will be updating president obama on the federal investigation that is under way, joy. We know that over the weekend the attorney general ordered an independent autopsy of Michael Brown, which speaks to the fact that the Justice Department is getting more engaged in this investigation and also speaks to the fact that theres not a whole lot of faith in how this is being handled. We should say that that autopsy was requested by the brown family. Based on my conversations here, the attorney general has been very concern kd about the way things are being handled in ferguson. The level of militarization. The fact he requested specifically for the Police Department not to release that video, which allegedly shows Michael Brown robbing a convenience store, and it was released anyway. So there is a lot of frustration on the part of this administration, on the part of the attorney general. So i anticipate that will certainly be a large part of the discussion. As you pointed out at the top, the National Guard has been requested to be deployed by the governor to clarify specifically what that means. I just had a conversation about that. Governor nick nixon has deployed the state National Guard. That is a move he made on his own without consulting with the white house. But lay, he doesnt need to because its his states National Guard. However, it certainly raises questions, again, about how this is all being handled. We know the white house has been in constant communication with his office. Top adviser Valerie Jarrett was briefed. At this point, no plans to hear from the president about this today, joy. But we cant raule it out. Yes, indeed. Kristen welker, thanks very much. Chris hayes, the host of msnbcs all in is on the ground in the st. Louis suburb of ferguson, missouri. Chris, give us a sense of peoples feeling. Has it filtered out to the people youre talking with that the curfew that had been imposed on ferguson will now be lifted for tonight . No, it hasnt. That was Just Announced a short while ago. What has happened today is a much earlier Police Presence at the epicenter of the protests, that gas station that was burned down on the first night of protests just shortly after Michael Brown was shot. Thats been the kind of congregating area for protests. Its been the central location. Earlier this morning i was out there, and about 15 police had instructions to, quote, keep people moving. They didnt allow people to congregate there. Shortly after, all news trucks were ordered out of that area. My sense is what were seeing is a twopronged approach. The curfew is being lifted on the one hand. On the other hand, i would imagine theyre in the stages of creating a perimeter around the area that has been the epicenter of protests and those protests later that have occasionally turned into clashes with police, looting of nearby businesses. So that appears to be the strategy today, to lift the curfew but have a much tighter perimeter. As of now this morning, 9 11 broad daylight, no one was being allowed to congregate in the main area that had become the site for protests over the last eight days. Chris, do you have a sense just from having been there of the difference and being able to tell, i guess, from the uniforms whether or not the main Police Agencies that are dealing with people, that are not letting people congregate, are we talking state police at this point . Are we talking county police or are we talking Ferguson Police . Its all of the above. I mean, last night when i was out here until about 2 00 in the morning walking around, i saw delwood police. Delwood is a neighboring municipality next to ferguson. I saw Ferguson Police. I saw jennings police. I saw st. Louis county police. I saw st. Louis metro, the city of st. Louis. I saw st. Louis county police. I saw state Highway Patrol as well. And ron johnson in his Early Morning press conference said they had called in for reinforcements. Youre seeing a number of police in various different uniforms. Sometimes late at night theyre in riot gear. Its hard to tell where their from, although the trucks will say. Youre seeing people in sort of tan shirts. Thats county or county brown as folks call them down here. Youre seeing is people in blue shirts. Those are the state Highway Patrol. Theres a lot of Law Enforcement from a lot of different divisions and municipalities down here at the moment. Lastly, chris, whats the sense youre getting from people about the preliminary autopsy ordered by the family . Theres two things i would say that ive heard from basically every Single Person ive talked to. You know, in the last four days, this morning as i was out, theres two things. One is people want the sentiment on the ground here is they want to see charges. They want to see criminal charges against this officer. Given the combination of the autopsy, the six shots, the one shot at the top of the skull. The three eyewitnesses at this point who basically have broadly actually, more than broadly, fairly tightly synced accounts of what happened. Given the fact you have that evidence, they feel theres sufficient evidence to charge Darren Wilson. The thing theyll say to me sl if this was anyone else with that amount of evidence, they would have been charged. If the shoe were on the other foot and mike brown had shot Darren Wilson under the conditions in which those eyewitnesses and that autopsy, mike brown would have been charged by now. Thats the thing. Independent of what the actual investigation thats proceeding in st. Louis county is, the sentiment here, the strong sentiment is thats the thing they want to see. The other thing ive heard almost unanimously is essentially no confidence or trust in the st. Louis county prosecutor who is overseeing the investigation, the possible were getting some reports they might present evidence to a grand jury on wednesday. Theres very little confidence in him among the community to pursue justice, to charge adequately, and to see this through. Theres a lot more faith in the federal government and eric holder and the fbi. Theres a lot of calls for an independent prosecutor being appointed. People want to see charges, and they dont trust the current st. Louis county prosecutor to oversee that charging procedure. All right. Chris hayes, thank you very much. You bet. And dont miss all in with chris hayes live from ferguson tonight. Anthony gray is the attorney representing browns family along with brenjamin crump. He joins me on the phone. Thank you for being here. I want to go right to the question of the autopsy. We now have the results. This is the preliminary autopsy ordered by the family. What does the family want to see done as a result of that autopsy . Well, i think you pretty much covered it in your earlier broadcast. They want to see charges brought pursuant to the evidence thats been submitted by way of witness testimony and by way of this pathologist report. Does the family have confidence at all that the local Police Investigation is proceeding at all, or are they getting any information from local police who are still the main investigating authority . Right. No, theyre not getting any information, but yes, information is being dissemin e disseminated. That makes them feel somewhat slighted. It started off that way. And i think the way information is coming out now just deepens that feeling of being slighted. And the family obviously is now looking to the federal authorities to investigate this situation. How much confidence does the family have in that investigation . Well, at this point, they have no reason to have any suspicion about it, at least at this point. I think theyre open. Theyre optimistic, and theyre hopeful. Thats the best description i can give it. And there also has been some reporting that the prosecuting attorney, if there is a prosecution of the officer, Darren Wilson, has the family talked to or had any communication with that prosecutor . Theres been no effort that i am aware of where the prosecutor has made any effort to reach out to this family. So based on that, no communication has occurred between the two. When you say no communication with the prosecutor, what about chief jackson . The chief of the local Police Department. Sure, sure. The same applies to chief jackson. Theres been no attempt that im aware of. And weve all watched captain ron johnson of the state police, of the missouri Highway Patrol, be very visible on the streets of ferguson and also of course on sunday at that service at which the family was there as well. What is the familys perception of whether or not he is, in fact, in charge of the events in ferguson . Well, you know, its interesting because yesterday captain ron johnson of all the Law Enforcement officials involved and security was requested by one of the family members or allowed by one of the family members to come into a private room and addressed them. They embraced each other. Captain ron johnson made very warm and touching remarks to the family. I left or at least from my observation, it was a very positive interaction. They had the ultimate faith and confidence in what he was doing. Does the family anticipate that very soon theyll be able to start their own grieving process . They havent even had an opportunity to bury this young man. Yeah, and thats the next step, joy. Trying to figure out how theyre going to rest michael in peace. That will be the focus for the next couple days. All right. Anthony gray, an attorney for the brown family. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you very having me. Have a great day. You too. Up next, the independent autopsy of Michael Brown commissioned by the family is out, and the federal government is conducting its own. Ill talk to a top forensic pathologist about what exactly that autopsy shows. Well have more of our continuing coverage of Michael Brown killing after the break. Were protesting because we want justice. We really dont know if hes going to get justice or not. Great rates for great rides. Geico motorcycle, see how much you could save. Ganncr we took care of your back pain. You make him the mvp. Tylenol is clinically proven to provide strong, fast pain relief. But for everything we do, we know you do so much more. Tylenol the summer that summers from here on will be compared to. So get out there, and get the best price guaranteed. Find it for less and well match it and give you 50 toward your next trip. Expedia. Find yours. If energy could come from anything . Or if power could go anywhere . Or if light could seek out the dark . What would happen if that happens . Anything. Again, our breaking news that missouri governor jay nixon has lifted tonights curfew for the city of ferguson. Its so important that the facts in this case really get out. If you dont have your own autopsy and you have to depend completely on the Police Department autopsy, thats not a good thing. The family wants to know certain simple questions that so far weve been able to answer. Those were the attorneys for Michael Browns family, along with michael bodden, the star medical examiner they hired to examine Michael Browns body, speaking earlier today. After the release of the preliminary results of the independent autopsy the family commissioned. That autopsy reveals the unarmed 18yearold was shot at least six timings, including twice in the head. Its an autopsy that, as i mentioned, is separate from the states autopsy. Attorney general eric holder is ordering a third autopsy by a federal medical examiner, also at the familys request and due to the extraordinary circumstances in ferguson. Let me bring in retired fbi agent and criminal profiler Mary Ellen Otoole and pathologist. Doctor, i want to start with you. When you look at the autopsy that was done by dr. Bodden that shows six wounds on Michael Brown to be the inside area of his arms, near his chest, and two to his head, are there any conclusions that can be drawn just from that preliminary autopsy . Well, one conclusion can be drawn with regard to the head wounds. Its not clear to me, although ive read and listened to reports today about the wound that really was responsible for his death, the top of the head, as it has been referred to, apparently the bullet going into the brain. That would have been, im sure, the last shot and the fatal one. The other shot of the face that went in around the right eye moved straight downward, exited from around the jawbone, and reentered in the area just above the collarbone, the clavicle. So you have a vertical downward line. Michael brown is 63. Unless officer wilson is 68, 7 foot, and i dont believe he is s then you have to explain how that shot was fired. As far as im concerned, the only explanation based upon the facts of the case as i have now heard about them, is that he was falling forward, toppling. He was wounded, and he was falling to the ground, and in the shot then came in and produced a wound in that direction. If you bend your head straight down, that which is perpendicular to the ground will become parallel to the ground. With regard to the go on. With regard to the shot to the arm, keep this in mind. The arm, think of it while were talking, you can bend it forward and supernate, pronate, extend, flex. You have an arm which is capable of many movements. When you try to determine that which is a frontal wound from that which is a dorsal or back wound, back of the arm, that is, then you have to be careful because the dynamics are constantly changing. When someone is running, when someone is being shot at, then the arms are flailing. The body is ducking, juking, twisting, turning, bending and so on. So more reconstruction is going to have to be done. They also should make sure they reconstruct things in the car. Was a shot fired from the car . And have they tested there for gun residue . The clothing is going to be examined, but remember, no clothing on the face. So no stippling or gun powder residue to be expected there. S if this young man was wearing a t shirr, i keep asking and havent gotten an answer yet, then except maybe for the highest wound of the right arm, the others would not have been protected from clothing either. So if you have shots fired by a handgun and there is no stippling, lets think of an ink pen coming down and white paper, making little dots. Thats what we mean by stippling. And no gun powder residue, the deposition of carbon material from the muzzle of the gun, then that shot was fired from a distance between 24 inches, most probably beyond 18 inches. You cant be more specific than that. So you have to go back and reconstruct the entire event. What was the distance of the body from the car and so on, correlate it with all of the different accounts, different people who were there, what the officer is going to say, what Michael Browns close friend who was with him, what he has to say. And then you put it all together. Yeah, and Mary Ellen Otoole, what was needed to be obtained at the crime scene immediately in order for authorities to do what weve just heard, to reconstruct elements of the scene so that they can determine those important questions . What chain of custody of the evidence would we have needed to have . What would you have wanted to see authorities do that day . Well, exactly what the doctor said. You need the forensics. You need the clothing. You need the analysis of the forensics of the clothing. The information from the inside of the officers car, the blood spatter pattern, if there was one, inside the car, the results of the injuries to the officer. Obviously, the medical examinations that are being done. Then any analysis that was done on the officers gun. And doctor, i want want to play you just a little bit from the earlier News Conference today. This is sean parcells, who worked with dr. Bodden on doing the family requested autopsy. Hes talking about those Bullet Wounds in the arm. It was something what you were talking about as well. Take a listen. So it also could have occurred when he was putting his hands up. So i put my hands up, and you see where that wound is at. It could have happened if he put his arms across in a defensive manner. We dont know. And we still have to look at other aspects of this investigation. And doctor, short of just comparing those wounds to the eyewitness testimony and to it the officers testimony, and you were discussing this a bit a moment ago, is there any definitive way to prove what position Michael Browns arms were in . Is there a way to tell . No, unless you have a an exit wound and a reentrance wound on the trunk of the body. Weve had fascinating cases like that. Lets say, for example, you have a reentrance wound in the chest. You see it comes from the arm. Then you would like up the arm with that wound. If you only have entrance and exit, then you may never be able to tell from a forensic scientific standpoint exactly what position the arm was in. Because as professor parcells said, and i had mentioned earlier, the arm can be in any number of positions. So in terms of ultimately ascertaining the exact position of Michael Brown when he was shot, except for that facial wound and maybe the head wound and so far as the arm wounds are concern, youre going to be limited. Youll be able to make some determinations to rule out things like lying down or so on. But youre not going to be able to make the precise measurements that will tell you exactly what his position was. That will also line up, too, with the trajectory of where officer was firing and getting back to what agent otoole pointed out, those things back at the scene. Where does the officer say he was when he shot this young man . What was the distance . Was he stooping . Was he bebding . And mary ellen, i want to ask about some of the things we have heard. A lot of people troubled about the disposition of the crime scene that day, the amount of time that the body was left on the ground, which people have said was up to four hours. The removal of the body of Michael Brown in what at least appeared to be a police suv rather than an ambulance, would any of those things have made it difficult to collect forensic evidence that would allow this situation to be adjudicated . Well, it certainly could. And if a victims remains lay outside and theyre exposed to the weather and theyre exposed to the elements, you know, that certainly has to be considered. Hopefully what people are saying, the time is much shorter than that. I dont know. Thats an awfully long time for a victim to lay outside. How that victim was transported toll the medical Examiners Office f the people have experience in transporting victims and they take all the right precautions and do everything correctly, then that minimizes any damage that could have been done to the evidence thats so important in this case. Right. All right. I want to thank both of you. Coming up, we continue our coverage of the killing of Michael Brown. Up next, we look at how social media is telling the story in realtime. If i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing ive learned is my philosophy is real simple American Express open forum is an online community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make Smart Business decisions. If you mess up, fess up. Be your partners best partner. We built it for our members, but its open for everyone. Theres not one way to do something. No details too small. American express open forum. This is what membership is. This is what membership does. So factors like diet can negatively impact good bacteria . Even if youre healthy and active. Phillips Digestive Health support is a duoprobiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. Im doubly impressed phillips Digestive Health. A daily probiotic. Thats keeping you from the healthcare you deserve. At humana, we believe the gap will close when healthcare changes. When frustration and paperwork decrease. When healthcare becomes simpler. So lets do it. Lets simplify healthcare. Lets close the gap between people and care. [ male announcer ] during the cadillac summers best event, lease this allnew 2014 cts for around 459 a month or purchase with 0 apr. Hurry in this exceptional offer ends soon. Ferguson is still trending on social media as you continue to tweet your constant commentary on the ongoing unrest. And one of the things youre talking about is the ironic solidarity between protesters in ferguson and people in gaza. This sign, which has gone viral, says, palestinians know, quote, what it means to be shot while unarmed as Michael Brown was. And numerous tweets like this offer advice for tear gas. Solidarity with ferguson. Remember not to touch your face when tear gassed. Use milk or coke. This picture shows a woman perhaps taking this advice. Many of you have tweeted your gratitude with a message thats been spreading on social media. Thanks for the advice, palestine. You can join the conversation on twitter, instagram, facebook, and msnbc. Now this news. Is Julian Assange ready to come out of hiding . He offers a critic message about future plans. Losing your chex mix too easily . Deploy the boring potato chip decoy bag. With a variety of tastes and textures, only chex mix has twenty bags of interesting. Pick your mix. Oh the name your price tool you tell them how much you want to pay, and they help you find a policy that fits your budget. I told you to wear something comfortable this is a polyester blend whoa uh. Little help . I got you unh its so beautiful man should we Call Security . No, this is just getting good. The name your price tool, still only from progressive. This is charlie. His long day of doing it himself starts with back pain. And a choice. Take 4 advil in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. Honey, you did it baby laughs were following several new developments in the shooting death of Michael Brown right now. Within the past hour, missouris governor announced hes lifting the curfew in ferguson. Meantime, browns family is awaiting state and federal autopsy results after receiving the results of a private, independent autopsy that they commissioned. That autopsy found that the unarmed 18yearold was shot at least six times, twice in the head. Earlier this hour, i spoke with brown family attorney anthony gray who told me the family wants charges brought against the officer who shot and killed Michael Brown following those autopsy results. And president obama has just wrapped up todays meeting with attorney general eric holder. Joining me now is ari melbur, cohost of the cycle. The situation that the attorney general and president find themselves in is a local community that has more trust in the federal government at this point but really not a whole lot that the federal government can do as far as prosecuting, correct . Well, the federal government has a several rights inquiry open here. That can continue. A big Sticking Point in these types of situations where you have some concern about whether local authorities can police themselves and a desire for federal oversight is that also shouldnt become an excuse for the local authorities not to continue in their investigation in the proper manner. The attorney general is doing a balance here in his previous statements and what we expect coming out of this meeting is the idea they stands ready to do the investigation, to have, for example, an independent autopsy, as weve reported. But also expecting local officials to do right by the victims or the investigation process here. And we are looking at a potential grand jury that could start as early as next week. Not a lot of confidence among local people in the current prosecutor. Wouldnt he have to present any grand jury case . Potentially. It depends how they assign it out. The big question here is, do you have the Police Standing back as an Investigation Continues and letting it run its course, as they should in any manner, or is there a feeling theyre closing ranks and somehow interfering . Thats why the release of the video on friday was so disturbing disturbing to so many people. Reportedly, the wall street journal saying federal officials objected to that in advance, saying that wouldnt be appropriate. That goes to whether this process is working, which is a distinct question from the potential charges or potential guilt of this officer. We dont have the facts. We dont know everyones perspective or all the witness testimony yet. People are drawing conclusions, and people are right to put pressure on, but we dont know the facts of that case. Thats distinct, though, from what also looks like a breakdown in the way youd want an investigation to run up to this point. Right. And just to correct myself, this wednesday we could start to see that grand jury happen. I want to the play you a little bit of sound from earlier today when we did have the presentation of the autopsy results. This is what one of the women we didnt see her in the audience that was listening had to say. Its a question weve heard a lot from the ground on ferguson. Lets listen. All of us here know what happened to michael. Why hasnt mr. The officer wilson been arrested . Its kind of a flashback almost to what happened in sanford with that case in the Trayvon Martin case, where people dont understand why its taking so long to get to what they think is the logical result. And it goes to your point, that people dont have confidence that the same Police Agencies that are out policing them on the street and that this officer comes from are actually going to do the thing that they want most, which is to make an arrest. Right. But let me be clear here. I spoke about where the police in this instance seem to have been wrong because releasing that tape would seem so prejudicial and selective. Having said that, its something some people dont want to hear. In the same way we talk about justice in a process for any other potential suspect, they may not have gathered enough information yet that would warrant an arrest. You have to meet a Legal Standard for that. They may not be there. This autopsy, people are looking and they want to draw certain conclusions. When i talk about selective material, this is one piece. So people can look at this. We just dont know yet in isolation whether this autopsy does more for one side or the other. Alone, people may draw their conclusions. But we have to stand back in terms of interpreting it, whether thats a Legal Process or journalistically, to make sure we get all the facts. The problem for the Police Officer in this case would seem to be not so much the individual information but whether multiple witnesses who dont have any reason to be coordinating their stories all seem to have seen a similar thing. One more point i heard someone make earlier today about this was saying, well i think chris hayes mentioned folks on the fwround have said, well, if this situation were reversed, how would go to go down . Thats not the Legal Standard. The Police Officer in this type of situation does have more ability to exercise force legally than an individual would in reverse. That may frustrate people, but thats the law right now. The question isnt what if it were reversed. The question legally, and this is what people need to keep their eye on, in this situation did this officer have reasonable apprehension, reasonable fear of serious bodily harm or death . If they didnt, and they still use deadly force,thats what we would call Excessive Force. Thats illegal. Thats the question, not whether its reversed, not everything else. Did they use Excessive Force . Thats what the investigation has to focus on. Ari, who happens to be an attorney. Very convenient at times like this. Also a cohost of the cycle, which you can watch right after this program weekdays it at 3 00 p. M. Eastern here on msnbc. Thank you, sir. Thank you. All right. Lets get to the three things you need to know this monday. The u. S. Military has conducted 15 more air strikes near the strategic mosul dam in iraq after kurdish and iraqi forces retook control of the dam from isis militants. The militants say they remain in control. Its the largest dam in iraq and supplies electricity and water to a large part of the country. In gaza, a fiveday ceasefire is set to expire in about two and a half hours. Israeli and palestinian negotiators are in cairo for truce talks mediated by egypt. The main point of contention is the gaza blockade impose by israel and egypt in 2007 after hamas militants took control of the gaza strip. Here at home, Texas Governor rick perry is moving forward with plans to visit 2016 primary states despite being indicted on two felony counts of abuse of power after allegedly trying to force a District Attorney to resign after she was arrested for drunk driving. She refused and prosecutors say that governor perry then vetoed 7. 5 million in funding for her office. Perry fired back this weekend. 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More than a week ago an unarmed teenager was shot and killed by a Police Officer in ferguson, missouri. The public outrage has spread nationwide as the whole country holds its breath every nightfall, not sure what it will bring. But as critical as the situation in ferguson is, hour by hour, the coming days and weeks could be even more explosive. As early as wednesday, grand jurors will begin hearing evidence that will help determine whether Darren Wilson, the Ferguson Police officer who fatally shot Michael Brown, will be charged with a crime. But with an internal investigation paving the way for a potential prosecution, one question being asked, can the police be trusted to police one of their own . And joining me now is pamela means, president of the National Bar Association, and jim cavanaugh, whos a retired atf special agent and msnbc Law Enforcement analyst. Pamela, i want to start with you because as i understand it, you would prefer to see a special prosecutor in this case rather than the county prosecutor of record. Explain why. Actually, we would prefer to see the federal government come in and take over the investigation. Joy, its because of what you said in your opening. When the trust of the community has been broken with those who are hired and paid by them to police them, it is very difficult for them to believe that there will be a fair and impartial investigation into this matter. The National Bar Association, all we want is the truth. We want the evidence to be done and collected in such a way that there will be integrity and honor in the process. As a result, were asking attorney general holder to come in and to take over the investigation. And jim cavanaugh, talk first of all about the complication of the local and the county Police Agencies and really the prosecutor, being asked to investigate one of their own, someone you know, prosecutors work quite closely with police. There is a relationship there. This prosecutor allegedly was unhappy with the idea of taking the local and county police off the beat. Then you, of course, have local police from ferguson having to gather information and evidence potentially against one of their own officers. Is that a situation that is, shall i say, conducive to fairness for the victim . Well, its a great point, joy. You know, many District Attorneys can step right up in a situation that even involves the police they work with every day. The if the facts justify and warrant it, they can bring a charge against the officer. It happens often in america. But theres other cases, and we harken back to the civil rights era, that require, you know, the department of justice and Civil Rights Division in particular to step in and make the decision that this case needs to be charged under the laws of the united states. And i think i saw your segment with ari. Hes a brilliant attorney, and im not an attorney, but im an almost 40year agent and commander and Police Officer. And i respectfully disagree. I think the probable cause is overwhelming to get a warrant and arrest this officer under a federal civil rights violation. And thats the issue, what you just mentioned at the end. The federal civil rights violation. Pamela, you know, one of the things that constrains the federal government here is that they have to charge on a federal crime. So any sort of murder or related charges, thats at the state level. The federal statute that would attach would be civil rights violations. Typically, doesnt that only happen after the state as adjudicated or disposed of the case . Absolutely not. There are cases where the federal government will come in there are situations where theres so much unrest, the credibility of the community is so damaged and the federal government makes a decision because its in the best interest of that community to look and see that it is in the communitys best interest and the governments best interest to come in. Here we see a violation of human rights and civil rights in this particular case. And in that case where the government cannot where the state cannot be trusted, the government has actually come in and taken over the investigation. I think were dealing with two different issues. When we talk about charging in a federal crime and whether or not its a civil rights violation, thats a whole other issue. But theres a particular case where the federal government can make a determination that there is so much unrest dealing with a killing or something involved that they can come in and become the investigating individuals. I think we find that situation in this particular case. I often give the common sense approach, which is, if you get married and your spouse cheats on you, it is very difficult in a situation for you to trust that person again. You may not divorce them, but the possibility of trusting them is not something that happens quickly. If you look at the outrage in this community, what you finds is that the trust has been broken. That what people are calling disorder is really people crying out, saying we will no longer ask for respect. We are demanding it in this case. If you live in this area, you will understand that what got this community to a point where they would risk their lives to defy an order to be off the streets at midnight. Theyre not doing it because they want to be seen. Theyre doing it because they want to be heard. And in those situations, look at the new orleans situation where the federal government came in and seized that department. Were not asking that. The National Bar Association is saying, this is a case of unrest. Come in, eric holder. Dont just do the investigation consistent with them, but do the investigation, take it over. And jim, i want to just quickly get one more question in about the actual investigation itself. How does it strike you that you did have police incest over the federal agencys objections on releasing that videotape, which did enflame the public, and just the perception by people in ferguson that what at least Ferguson Police are doing is acting more to protect the officer than to investigate . How do you respond to that . Right, i think that was really sorry to release that videotape. It was over the objections of the department of justice to the police. They shouldnt have done it. But nevertheless, moving forward and its enflamed everybody. But moving forward, what we need, joy s we need Bobby Kennedy in the 60s when he called the governor of alabama and moved in federal agents to protect Martin Luther kings church in montgomery. They objected to that. We had to have an attorney general to do it. I think we immediate some action here, some leadership, some decisions, and the federal governments got to not worry about the niceties and make a decision. All right. Pamela meanes and jim cavanaugh, thanks to both of you. Thank you so much, joy. All right. Up next, we reid between the lines on whos really in charge of the operation in ferguson. Hey. Im ted and this is rudy. Say hi rudy. [ barks ] [ chuckles ] id do anything to keep this guy happy and healthy. Thats why im so excited about these new milkbone brushing chews. Whoa, im not the only one. Its a brilliant new way to take care of his teeth. 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Because when this is over, im going to go in my sons room, my black son [ applause ] who wears his pants sagging, wears his hat cocked to the side, got tattoos on his arms, but thats my baby. [ applause ] captain ron johnson has become something of a folk hero in ferguson, the face and embodiment of reconciliation. Still, its not clear that captain johnson has ever really been in charge of ferguson. And some are now asking whether the local and county Police Departments set out to undermine him from the start. I received some information from the ground this morning, and i almost think that captain johnson is being used as a pawn to cover for all of the mistakes of Governor Nixon at this time. Because since that one blissful day last thursday when captain johnson from the missouri Highway Patrol was brought in by the governor, governor jay nixon, and he pulled back the military style Police Troops and walked with the protesters over Michael Browns death, things have quickly slipped back into chaos. This is what captain johnson said last night about whether the National Guard would be called in to take over security in ferguson. No. At this point were taking additional steps, and well evaluate our resources. Hours later, the governor sent in the National Guard. Johnson was not told that the Ferguson Police chief planned to release the Surveillance Video on friday that until he corrected the misimpression with a followup News Conference implied that officer Darren Wilson was pursuing Michael Brown as a robbery suspect, rather than stopping hick for jay walking. Captain johnson learned about the release on television. According to a Law Enforcement source i talked to over the weekend, the Justice Department actually talked Ferguson Police out of releasing the Surveillance Video on thursday, the same day captain johnson took charge. The doj, of course, didnt wanted i have yoe released at all. On friday night when the videos release touched off new angry protests, the tear gas, which captain johnson had vowed not to use anymore, returned. The good faith from releasing the officers name had been completely undermine d. After sporadic looting on saturday night halted largely by other protesters who rushed to the protect the establishments being vandalized, governor jay nixon declared a curfew, further undercutting johnsons authority. One of the local activists that cobb meant in ferguson sent a text message saying, johnson has good intentions but no power. This is beyond him. Johnsons sunday sermon illustrated that he is fundamentally with people of his hometown. The actions of the state illustrate that police and governmental authorities may or may not truly be with him. And that wraps things up for the reid report. Ill see you back here tomorrow at 2 00 p. M. Eastern. Be sure to visit us online. The cycle is up next. E cadillc summer collection is here. [ male announcer ] during the cadillac summers best event, lease this 2014 ats for around 299 a month. Hurry in this exceptional offer ends soon. Hurry in this exceptional offer ends soon. So factors like diet can negatively impact good bacteria . Even if youre healthy and active. Phillips Digestive Health support is a duoprobiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. Im doubly impressed phillips Digestive Health. A daily probiotic. While a body in motion tends to stay in motion. Staying active can ease arthritis symptoms. But if you have arthritis, this can be difficult. 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We have just learned a grand jury could begin weighing in on that as early as this week. And from ferguson to the white house, president obama gets briefed by attorney general holder. Meantime, the curfew is called off, the National Guard is called in, and the family of Michael Brown is calling for justice. Our first question was, how many times was he shot . And so that question was answered. At least initially. At least six. Thats how many Bullet Wounds 18yearold Michael Brown suffered according to an independent autopsy commissioned by his family. Its one of three autopsies. The first was done by local officials. Those results have not been yet released. A second has been ordered by attorney general eric holder. And this one, conducted by dr. Michael bodden, the former chief medical examiner for new york city, done at the familys request. He says it shows at least six entry wounds, all from the front, with two striking brown in the head. The assistant pathologist says two of the those bullets grazed brown, one on the inner arm and one near the wrist. The question asked to us was, could that wound occur from him walking away and then he turns around . Its consistent with that. However, understand, too, that while the shot could come from the back, as if im standing here walking along and get sho