Sean spicer was known to fill notebook after notebook at the white house. The practice dating back to his time at the rnc. Who knew that sean was so stood just . Where he reportedly filled black books emblazoned with the partys seal. One staffer saying theyll wish they had been nicer to spicer. He was in a lot of meetings. James, lets start with you. I am shocked. Never did i think sean spicer would be the kind of guy to keep copious notes. Especially given how much he flubbered and said i dont know at the podium. Why could these notes be so useful . The notes can be very useful to a prosecutor in a couple of ways. First of all, these are very important tools legally in a courtroom. Contemporaneous notes can be used for a variety of purposes including impeaching a witness who testifies inconsistently with those notes. They can be used for the recollection if that person is having difficulty remembering answers to particular questions. And then to the extent that memory deficit continues even after being refreshed with those notes, those notes can be introduced subsequently at trial. So these notes have significant import for the investigation in any future Court Proceeding that are undertaken. Practically speaking, any white collar attorney counseling mr. Spicer knows all that. So the practical consequences that if, not when, mr. Spicer is interviewed or provides testimony before a grand jury, he is going to be well advised to stay pretty closely to whats in those notes. Humor me of twhoos say hes telling the truth in his notebook . People have been known to tell tall tales in their journals. Tell the stoire the stories thee the truth. Thats certainly something the investigators will decide, how much reliance to put on those notes. But remember, former director mueller is relying not just on these notes but other documents, other Motor Vehicle documents, other records and interviews that are parts of this investigation. While the notebook is an important part, any prosecutor working on this will want to ensure theres corroboration before relying on it exclusively. Youve covered this for quite some time. Youve been watching this for a long time. Do you think this is his revenge . He was manipulated by his own boss and kicked to the curb. Hold. On he wasnt asked to do a hard job. This was seans dream job. He wasnt drafted and sent to vietnam. If he wants revenge, this is one way. I do think that more important to sean right now is avoiding getting a lawyer. Staying out of line of fire of if he can hand these over and say this is what and i know cooperate with mueller, it may save him some legal bills. And we know those Legal Business are mounting for a lot of people tied to the president. The president himself has the luxury of getting the donors in the rnc. Mueller wants documents spicers statements on comey. I want to share what sean spicer said before and after he was fired. Take a look at this. Is the president comfortable having an fbi director that gives out free passes serve during his administration . The president has confidence in the director. He made a derpation the fbi director had loss his confidence. The attorney general conoccurred with that and for that rep dags today on to the please agreed with their conclusions. Could the notebooks contradict what sean spicer said at the time to the media at the podium . We know the president undercut his own team, who monday, tuesday of that week, went throughout defending one reason for jim comey. And then he President Trump sat down with lester holt and ald totally different story. It is possible to the extent there were deliberations in the white house before sean spicers statement that reflected other reasoning for the firing, those would be included in the notebook. So i think it is something that mueller and his team will be interested in revealing. One point picking up on the comments. I think it is incould not seaabse, incould not seaable that it would be without the advice of an attorney. And i suspect he has retained an attorney general for that purpose or will be doing so shortly. I need to share what sean spicer said today in an interview. This blew my mind. Have you ever lied to the American People . I dont think so. You dont think so . Unequivocally you can say no . You want to find something . I have not knowingly done anything to do that, no. Im sorry. My children are both liars and sometimes they dont know. An answer like that, i the didnt know i lied. From the press secretary of the white house. Were going to accept that answer. I didnt know that i lied. Your word is your bond. Youre standing up representing the white house before the American People. That argument is going to fly . It depends on the example. Theres a long catalogue of things he said from the podium that he had to know werent trooflt starting with the crowd size and obama and the inauguration. But press secretaries are sometimes kept out of loop of the white house for just this reason so they can hear something different. Im sorry. When he was talking about voter fraud, he was referencing absolute nonsense that said there was some report out there. Pure nonsense. Theres a long list of statements that werent true but there were probably some that he was told were true that he was told internally. Lets get on the plane. Air force one. President trump and his team were flying home from berlin and thats when they concocted the story about don junior having the meeting with the russians about orphans. Why does bob mueller want the phone records . He wants those records as a starting point investigating who may have participated in crafting the statement that you just mentioned. Those phone records would demonstrate who was called, how frequently they were called, what the duration of those calls were, and would be a basis for further interviews on anyone on either end of those conversations of the. This is an extraordinary topic and it is not going anywhere. The president saying over and over, this is just an absolute ruse. I dont know. Im not a lawyer. We have to turn to another story, a key part of this russia probe. It is social media. We know the massive role it played in this election. Facebook saying it will turn over 3,000, did you hear that . Russia linked ads to congress. Mark zuckerberg announcing it after facebook came under serious fire for not doing enough to help the investigation. We will continue working with the government to understand the full extent of russian interference and we will do our part. Not only to ensure the integrity of free and Fair Elections around the world but also to give everyone a voice and to be a force for good in democracy everywhere. All right then. The top democrat on the Senate Intel Committee calling the move an important and absolutely necessary first step. So Mark Zuckerberg, not out of the hot seat just yet. And a bloomberg report that washington has facebook in its sights. The author of the new story on Mark Zuckerberg. Business weeks new story saying his fake news problem aint going away. Lets walk through this. Because facebook, before the campaign, if you went to cocktail parties, to events, they would say yes, were looking at becoming a media campaign. What we know is theyre not highly regulated. How culpable is facebook should getting paid in rubles, dont know who the ad buyer is. They were totally off base when immediately after the election with they said fake news didnt play any role and really tried to play down the role that it played. Its not as if the russians contacted somebody at facebook. They went online and went through an automated system. So Mark Zuckerberg talked about, that theyre going to try to figure something out. The whole company goes against the idea of any kind of human intervention. So it is not clear that facebook can get its arms around this problem. They can. In the Investment Banking industry there are regulations, rules known as know your client. You cant get paid from an anonymous source from another country. Thats a big nono. The regulations are coming without a doubt. And this small amount of ads that theyve turned over. 3,000 sounds like lot but it could be zraching surface. Senator warner says it is the tip of the iceberg. The other thing is we dont really know what will come out of bob muellers investigation. We think that he had a warrant. Theres the potential for a lot of ugliness. I think it is a matter of time before Congress Tries to take action. In the defense of the tech industry, wasnt regulated yet. The social media platforms have grown so quickly, regulation hasnt caught up with it. So is there wrongdoing . The government wants to know who, what, where, when and why, but there werent laws against these practices. I think at worst you could say they did nothing wrong. They are the room it happen. 2 billion users, facebook is the biggest Media Company to world has ever seen. It would be, i think, naive to think they wont get regulated at this time the point. Steve bannon spoke on it saying i the wouldnt have come aboard even for trump if i hadnt known they were building this massive facebook and trumper engine. It worked for they will. It did. And the Clinton Campaign knew it too. Thats a great point. The Clinton Campaign knew and it had a gazillion dollars. I think we look back on the election. Leaving aside this russian stuff. The role that social media played. Whether the targeting was appropriate or inappropriate. Was one of the big stories of this election. The Clinton Campaign may have known facebook was such a massive platform as well. But you can apply strategy and ethics or strategy and no ethics. In that quote, there was another quote that voter suppression. The Trump Campaign was trying to target the weak supporters and send them ads which would make they will not turn out. It possibly crosses the line into racism. I wouldnt say border line. I would say totally inappropriate. Pick up this weeks copy of business week. It is a good one. Were going live to mexico city. Weve been focusing on this for the last two and a half days. The dramatic and confusing scene outside a primary school. And jimmy kimmel doubling down. He made total about face. The mixed messages from the Trump Administration on north korea. Does he want to sanction them, talk to them or bomb them or all of the above . Dont let dust and allergens get between you and lifes beautiful moments. Flonase outperforms the 1 nondrowsy allergy pill. It helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause symptoms. Pills block one and 6 is greater than 1. Flonase changes everything. Whstuff happens. Old shut down cold symptoms fast with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels. Breaking news with time running out. Republicans reportedly making a play to buy a a vote on health care. Gop lawmakers are trying to get alaska senator Lisa Murkowski on board by revising a bill to bring big benefits to her state specifically. Senator graham is denying it as complete bs. Maneuvers like this could make or break the bill. Republicans can only afford to lose one more bill or it does go down. In the meantime, they are on a daily crusade to fight the plan. And jimmy kimmel back with new attacks. Look at this. He made a total about face which means he either doesnt understand his own bill or he lied to me. It is as simple as that. I dont want to turn this into a kanye and taylor swift type situation. When senator cassidy was on my show in may, he told me that he believed every American Family regardless of income should be able to get Quality Health care. And i believed he was sincere. Sadly the bill he unveiled last week senator Lindsey Graham indicates he was not sincere. It is biy by many accounts it i the worth haik bill. Can you imagine donald trump actually sitting down to read a Health Care Bill . It is like trying to imagine a dog doing your taxes. It doesnt compute. Jimmy kimmel is saying he lied. And as he class act who really cares about people and their health care. He doesnt lie. Lets bring in a man who doesnt lie. Michael steele. And heather. Senator murkowski said to nbc cameras, this. Are you ready to support it . Nope. Why not . Because i am doing the Due Diligence that i committed to doing. All right. Mr. Steele, how much pressure can republicans pout Lisa Murkowski . We know when ryan zinke tried to do that last time, she gave them heisman. She did. And i suspect theres a little of thatter heisman profile taking shape. Her government has come out against this legislation. He has recognized the impact that it will have on the people of alaska and it will be very hard for the senator from alaska to stand in opposition to her governor who was in his own Due Diligence, looked at this and said you get the short end of the stick. What does that say to all the other states that would be worse off after this bill is put this place . What deal are you going to cut with them . This is the ugly slippery slope that washington gets into. Get off the table. What will it take to make this go away . To have your vote, to do whatever. Thats what they dont like. Imagine what it will cost by the time they get to tennessee. Back to jimmy kimmel, we love to dismiss the hollywood elite. What do threatening . Theyre out of touch. In this case, is jim wrimy kimmn touch . For him this is personal. He had a baby born a heart condition. And he realized, what would happen if i was in this situation . For hillary clinton, the hollywood connection seemed to hurt her. Every american and every human being deserved the security to know if the enevery tabl happens, you get sick. That will lap to every person. That they dont to have lose their job, lose their home or go into bankruptcy. That is tenet at the heart of it. So when jimmy kimmel speaks with his child, i think that millions of americans, the 20 million americans who now have health care and didnt have it before the Affordable Care act, the rest of americans who have Better Health care plans because of the protections, are roogt for him and theyre worried for this government to recognize that we want our Health Care System to be more comprehensive, more coverage, and not be the opposite. What do you think . In this case, jimmy kimmel doesnt seem like out of touch hollywood elite. He seems to be in touch with issues that speak to the heart of the American People. Absolutely. Just because as he man of means and we think doesnt mean cant understand what his life would be like if he didnt. Thats a sobering moment for any individual. To put it in that box. You can dois because you have the coverage, the will to do it, doesnt mean his humanity dies on that hill of the no. His human the ant which he articulated very clearly. He made it clear. I know i can do this but im thinking about the folks who cant do this. And that resonates with a lot of people. The members, instead of listening to folks, are trying rush through a bill because they want to score a political point. They want to do all these things related to politics and not to the proper space of health care where you actually take the time. Do the regular order senator mccain talked about. So we can all appreciate the care that youll get when it is done. Theyre making long term sound decisions. I want to talk about what is in the bill. It includes coverage of preexisting conditions. But does the actual bill protect the 130 million americans with preexisting conditions . I turn to you. Access to coverage doesnt mean coverage. What it does is it goes right to the heart of the kinds of Consumer Protections and says she shouldnt be a national standard. It should devolve to the states to allow governors to erode that protection for preexisting conditions. It puts the 130 million americans who have preexisting conditions today at risk of happening to live in a state where their insurance commissioner will say, we dont need this kind of protection in the state. It puts many people at risk. It still cuts like trump care before, hundreds ofs about out of medicaid. It really is what could lead to, according to some reports, 32 million more people losing coverage over the next decade. Can i just really address that . As a former state official, as a Lieutenant Governor of my state and having to work with the governor on the budget, this idea that youre going to now send this bill to the states. In the short material, it works. Heres some money. What happens in 2026 . What happens down road . You think they wont opt out of those expenses . When theyre facing deficits or raising taxes on the citizens with an election ahead, that wont happen. If you think theyre thinking about 2026, god bless you. Theyre not. But governors are. Fair point. Ahead well go live to mexico city. We have been covering this for the last two days. Devastating and unclear what this search is for specifically. The struggle for survivors. It has been a confusing and emotional day. Well speak to mexicos top diplomat in new york. Plus, President Trumps final day at the u. N. Creating new questions about his strategy for north korea. It is about sanctions, military intervention, or may be it is about neither. Keep your insights from prying eyes, so they wont be used by anyone but you. The ibm cloud. The cloud for enterprise. Yours. The cloud for enterprise. And lifes beautiful moments. Ns get between you flonase outperforms the 1 nondrowsy allergy pill. It helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause symptoms. Pills block one and 6 is greater than 1. Flonase changes everything. Stay with me, mr. Parker. When a critical patient is far from the hospital, the hospital must come to the patient. Stay with me, mr. Parker. The at t network is helping First Responders connect with medical teams in near real time. Stay with me, mr. Parker. Saving time when it matters most. Stay with me, mrs. Parker. Thats the power of and. We are two days out from that 7. 1 magnitude earthquake is that the mexican president said moments ago, there may be people alive, trapped in the rubble in as many as ten different collapsed buildings across mexico city. Earlier today we saw scenes like this in some of those buildings. A woman pulled out alive by volunteers. This is stunning. But also some confusing reports from that collapsed elementary school. Were hearing conflicting reports on whether any children or reports are still trapped inside. Rescuers were hoping to repeat dramatic scenes like the ones you just saw. Children pulled from that school after the quake and video that emerges today. Our reporter is in mexico at that school doing some extraordinary reporting. Shes been there all day. I feel like ive bone this wild emotional ride with you today. This morning we were talking about a young girl, between 9 and 13. It sounded like rescuers were in contact with her and now we dont know if shes there . Reporter youre right. You have been on this journey with me from the very beginning. The headlines of almost every newspaper this morning were about this young girl. Then we started hearing local reports saying that her name might not have been frida because all the fridas and so fias were accounted for. And then it turned out a commander said such a child does not exist. However, ive been on the ground here talking to First Responders and i was able to speak to a colonel who is leading the efforts his name is colonel reese. I was able to be very close to where these search and rescue efforts rehappening. He told me there are one to three bodies. They dont know if theyre alive or not. But bodies that they can detect with their technology that leads them to believe there could possibly be signs of life. He said they cannot determine what ages these bodies are. Good it is a child. One to three pretty much blobs theyve identified using their technology and thats why you see so much activity here. In the past hour, we saw the fists go back up in the air again. It just got increasingly crowded here. We have seen these beams being moved in. They were preparing for night fall and preparing for rain, although that may have changed. They want to get to these one to three bodies that that coloneled me they have detected here on the scene at the primary school. There were parentser gathering, hoping this morning. Are the parents still there with children theyre looking for . In fact we spoke to several parents. I spoke to two children who are survivors. If you hear their stories, it is one of the toughest things ive ever had to do was speaking to these people. Harrowing tales of survival. They were here, hugging each other, crying, clinging to hopeful on the phone. To the psychologist who was inside. He said with several Family Member whos are clinging to home. But i dont see these families here. They were here before. They told us they felt they had to come here and be close to this to see if there are any people will get rescued. That has not happened today. They only pulled out the body of one woman who was a even thor very early this morning. So far, no rescues. As you can see from the activity on the ground, they are preparing for a very long night here in front of this primary school. It looks like theyre gathering and discussing what the plan will be for the next can you of hours. I mean, we have to be 50 hours since the quake and these people are running on pure adrenaline and theyre continuing the search and rescue effort with extraordinary bravery. Joining me now in the studio is ambassador diego gomez, the consul general in new york city. This must be so difficult for you to watch. Do you know anything about the school . It is such a confusing opportunity. The more than 1 million americans and mexican americans are looking with a lot of angst. Everyone is putting their hands together is that trying on send over some help. Many of the buildings across mexico city, a city as big as new york city, with over 20 million inhabitants. The epicenter was so close to the city thats why we have so many damages. The buildings as was said today, people might still be trammed. 32 years ago, remember it very well. The terrible earthquake. 1985. And i remember a week passed and people city alive were being recovered from those rubble. So it is our hope, and the priority is to keep on working and getting any survivors that are still alive from those buildings. Not only mexico city but the area and the states around mexico city. Given the scale of this earthquake, do you believe the human tragedy could be much bigger than we realize . I hope not but still many people are missing of those that are unaccounted for might be somewhere else or mean unfortunately dead. The number one priority is to get them out of there. And rescuers have come from the United States, from as far as israel, even asia. What does government need most . Certainly specialized teams. Now were dealing with the immediate aftermath. Trying on get people out if theyre still alive in the collapsed buildings. In the days and weeks the come we need assess exactly all the building thats were damaged during the earthquake. Whether or not they are still usable. For these we need a lot of help and countries across the world and certainly here in the u. S. , from mayor de blasio to are cuomo to President Trump. Everyone saying we support you. Those are words. Are you getting the actions though . President trump and president he pena nieto have not had a sgarm fuzzy relationship over the last eight months, beyond words of sympathy, do you believe theres going to be real commitment or support that mexico needs from the United States government at a time like this . Theres already support with the earthquake aftermath. What we need is to assess all those buildings and find out whether they are usable or not. And keep them working with hundreds and thousands maybe in the days to come of people who will live without a roof above their heads. I appreciate that at a time like this, there are no borders. It is about humanity. Thank you very much. And we just got kim jonguns reaction to President Trumps speech at the u. N. A few days ago. My dell Small Business advisor has gotten to know our business so well that is feels like hes a part of our team. With one phone call, he sets me up with tailored products and services. And when my advisor is focused on my tech, i can focus on my Small Business. A dell advisor can help you choose the right products with powerful intel® core™ processors. And lifes beautiful moments. Ns get between you flonase outperforms the 1 nondrowsy allergy pill. It helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause symptoms. Pills block one and 6 is greater than 1. Flonase changes everything. Whoa thats amazing. 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Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Ready for a new chapter . Talk to your rheumatologist about humira. This is humira at work. Jong jon just unleashed a tirade against President Trump. He called the speech mentally deranged and saying his comments were a war declaration. Earlier today, trump hitting north korea with new sanctions before he is open to talks with that country. Is dialogue still possible with north korea . Im utterly confused. Sanctions, yes, dialogue, maybe, and this morning trumps Vice President saying the military option is still on the table. What the president has made clear is we have military options. Some commentators, the most powerful military on earth doesnt have the ability to take action to defend our people. I think it was steve bannon who was quoted as saying that. We have options. With me is steve clemens. The washington editor at large. Theres a lot going on. Theyre posturing their position. Donald trump is trying to play the role of mad max and scare the rest of the world that he is so nutty that he might unleash the kind of fury at north korea could result in the millions of deaths and a complete chaos in northeast asia. The worry about that is what donald trump wants to do. We Say Something tongue in chief, mad max. With a thunder dome, two men enter, one man leaves. Were talking about two countries with nuclear power. This aint a movie. Thats right. And regardless of what he said. Ill familiar with the pentagon situations and theyve done over and over again. Once you look at how different powers respond. The chances of escalation and miscommunication. How you dont end up with millions dead. Many of them. What appeasement are you willing to engage in . Or what strategy are you willing to do so that theyre not winning at extortion but air able to compel them with such stunning spirks theyre able to eventually desist in their nuclear operations. Thats what donald trump is not investing in. You either have this crazy apocalyptic vision. Or you have appeasement. Trump is a brand guy. He puts out a message but it has been a really couldnt fusing message. They keep with this narrative. Watch what he does. Not watch what he says. What do you think north korea is looking at . I think theyre looking at kelly when President Trump was talking about annihilating north korea. I think theyre seeing someone they dont believe is going to be credible. And i think you have this war of words. Kim jongun has called him a barking dog and a doddard. Basically an aging senile fool, if you look it up. And what they do is have a war of words and theyre on a train wreck. But north korea is making a calculation that at the end of the day, china the wont allow this to happen. Japan wont allow it to happen and theyre losing trust in Donald Trumps leadership. Stunning. And at the same time, President Trumps Approval Rating is going up. Thank you. I always appreciate talking to you. Millions of americans could be without power for many months. We are the tv doctors of america, and we may not know much about medicine, but we know a lot about drama. From scandalous romance, to ridiculous plot twists. gasping son . Dad we also know you can avoid drama by getting an annual checkup. So were partnering with cigna to remind you to go see a real doctor. Go, know, and take control of your health. It could save your life. Doctor poses dad cigna. Together, all the way. This timyou haveis turn. 4. 3 minutes to yourself. This calls for a taste of cheesecake. New philadelphia cheesecake cups. Rich, creamy cheesecake with real strawberries. Find them with the refrigerated desserts. And lifes beautiful moments. Ns get between you flonase outperforms the 1 nondrowsy allergy pill. It helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause symptoms. Pills block one and 6 is greater than 1. Flonase changes everything. Now to the devastation from hurricane maria. Today the storm hitting the Dominican Republic as a category 3 hurricane. Maria has left at least 18 people dead in the caribbean. Puerto rico, totally in the dark, much like the Virgin Islands from last week. Millions of people potentially facing months and months without power. It is very scary. The wind with the noises going on. How horrible is it to look around and see this island like this . Its very sad. Its very, very sad. Very heart broken [ speaking spanish ] whats going to happen when we get out of here . What will we end up seeing . Its very hard. The u. S. Coast guard deploying search and rescue missions at first light today. They rescued a woman and two children from a capsized boat that went missing on wednesday. This one is extraordinary. Think about this. Just a week ago, puerto rico was the safety zone where people from st. John and st. Thomas went for refuge. Now look at what theyre going through. Were going to take a break. When we return, ari melber is back in the chair here with an exclusive interview with one of the intellectual leaders of the resistance. Thats coming up. But hes got w so he took aleve this morning. If hed taken tylenol, hed be stopping for more pills right now. Only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. Tylenol cant do that. Aleve. All day strong. All day long. Also try aleve direct therapy with tens technology for lower back pain relief. You myour joints. Thing for your heart. Or your digestion. So why wouldnt you take something for the most important part of you. Your brain. With an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain Health Supplement in drug stores nationwide. Prevagen. The name to remember. Adapt supply chains based on trends, tweets and storms. And make adjustments on the fly. The ibm cloud. The cloud for enterprise. Yours. The cloud for enterprise. And lifes beautiful moments. Ns get between you flonase outperforms the 1 nondrowsy allergy pill. It helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause symptoms. Pills block one and 6 is greater than 1. Flonase changes everything. A group that really deserves tremendous credit is the United States coast guard. If you talk about branding, no brand has improved more than the United States coast guard. That odd moment shows Donald Trumps pen chant to turn even the most serious tribute to public sacrifice, hurricane recovery efforts, into a discussion of branding, the promotional act of hyping something usually for profit is clearly more than a business skill for trump, its his way of looking at the world. Ive mastered the art of the deal and have turned the name trump into the highest quality brand. It started with me very early on just by having success. You know, when youre successful, that sort of creates a little bit of a brand. What about your brand . I think my brand is doing great, yeah. Thats not exactly true in the sense that a lot of Great Companies dont go through multiple bankruptcies. Trump argues that in both business and politics, his brand is resilient enough to rebound. The larger question is whether branding is even the right frame for public services. You know, in fashion, sure, a brand might turn a 10 garment into a 1,000 dress and everyone walks away happy. But in empirical fields like medicine or engineering, results matter more than the brand. In her new book, activist and author naomi klein notes that under the rules of branding you dont need to be good or decent, only consistent to the brand youve created. While that may found depressing, klein argues its actually an essential thing to understand for countering trump, noting that hes built a brand around chaos, hate and corporate shock doctrines, masquerading as populism. Klein is the author of the iconic globalization critique no logo with over a million copies in circulation. She won the sydney peace prize and her new book is a finalist for a National Book award. Thanks for being here. Really glad to be here. Branding as a political strategy, it works for him. How do you counter it . Well, as you said, the rules of branding are different than the rules of politics. The rules of branding are be true to your brand, repeat, repeat, repeat. And the trouble with trump is that the meaning of his brand, i think, is impunity through wealth. He would say his brand is luxury and so on, but if you think about the apprentice, if you think about what he has been selling all of these years, its being the boss that gets to do whatever he wants because of his wealth, right . Its that dream of absolute freedom and power that comes with money. Thats what hes been selling all of these years. So the trouble is how do you hold someone responsible when their brand is impunity. I mean you can lie as much as you want, you can cheat as much as you want, as long as youre still on top. I think we see that what hurts him are things that threaten that essence of his brand. Thats why i think hes driven so mad by the steve by steve bannon and the perception that he was a puppet, right . That eroded the boss brand. Your book is not so much antitrump as it is antitrumpism. You say trumps assertion he knows how to fix america because hes rich is nothing more than uncouth vulgar echo that weve been hearing for years, bill gates can fix measure, Richard Branson and Michael Bloomberg can fix climate change. Youre saying falling into the trap of conflating wealth with a public serviceman date or the ability to help the country is broadly a problem across the political spectrum. Its absolutely bipartisan. More and more we have been outsoou outsourcing problems that we used to tackle as democracies, as collective problems, to wealthy individuals through their foundations and imagining that because they manage to get unspeakably rich in one area, then they must kind of understand everything. Ill give bill gates that he knows a lot about technology, but hes done a lot of damage in the u. S. Education system. You know, they have apologized for a lot of that. But that idea that wealth equals sort of godlike power, i think that was one of the roads that led to trump, because trump stood before the American People and said vote for me. Sure, i dont have any experience in governing, but why should we do it . Because im rich. You know, or Kellyanne Conway saying he built this global brand, therefore, he can run the government. Naomi klein, a wellknown activist, an interesting thought leader and intellectual, thank you for coming on the beat. Thank you, ari. And thats going to do it for me this evening. My friend, ari melber, will be back for the full show tomorrow evening at 6 00 p. M. Eastern. I will see you tomorrow morning at 9 00 a. M. Hardball with Chris Matthews starts right now. White house surrounded. Lets play hardball. Good evening, im Chris Matthews up in boston. We know that special Counsel Robert Mueller and his team of federal investigators are looking at all the president s men. But its now clear that mueller has a bigger fish to try. Hes zeroing in on the president himself. Muellers request for documents from the white house reveal hes keenly interes