0 it was like, i gotta get ahead of, i was really excited, to be honest, as a fan. i just got a little sight. i was like, i'm curious to see what rachael has to say about all of this tomorrow. so that was my reaction. >> one out that i know that you like to keep it, you know, >> spicy. >> right up to the end, one of these times i'm going to sneak into your prompter and put on, now, next on msnbc, vanilla ice. >> i'm like anchor man. i'll read anything. >> you're tempting me. it will happen. thank you. much appreciated. thanks for joining us this hour. happy to have you here. you're getting more of me than you bargained for this week. i'm sorry. if everything goes as planned which is never in the news business but you can't break them unless you make them in the first place, if all goes as planned, i will be here tonight hosting the rachel maddow show and tomorrow night as well at my usual time 9:00 p.m. hosting, tuesday night, wednesday night and thursday night i will be here as well. but the whole all star team with my msnbc colleagues. we expect to do a primetime recap of the january 6th hearing that will happen during the work day on thursday this week. so we'll see. hi tonight and tomorrow night my 9:00 p.m. and big special coverage starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern on thursday night after the next january 6th hearing. that is the plan. the only reason we break one when the news gods throw us ten curveballs at once and all the plans are thrown out the window. that is the plan. i'm glad to be here. there's a lot going on. a lot to be watching tonight as my friend chris hayes was covering on his show. we have eyes on this surprise development on possible gun safety reforms. last week i think the whole country was pretty skeptical it was announced that democrats led by senator chris murphy persuaded enough republican senators they might potentially be able to pass a modest package of gun reform not only through the house but through the senate. republicans over the course of this past generation have not become just hardliners. not just absolutist but indeed sort of maximalists when it comes to the policy issue of how many guns there ought to be on the streets in our country and what kinds of guns americans ought to have access to. i mean, i don't know why this is sort of stuck with me and hasn't stuck with anybody else. i'm going to keep saying it and hope it sticks with somebody else some day. do you remember -- we ought to remember what the republicans did first the last time they won full control of the u.s. government. january, 2017. after trump won the white house and republicans won control of the house and the senate. they have control of all those branchs of government. the very first substantive thing they did the very first real action republicans took in congress was, what? they changed gun laws to literally, i kid you not, to literally make it easier for people to obtain firearms if they had been formally adjudicated to be mentally ill. seriously. that was the first substantive thing republicans did the last time they got full control of the government. they set to work on the grave problem that people formaly ed a adjudicated to be mentally ill weren't easily able to get guns. they fixed that as soon as they got power. given that recent history, i think there was skepticism across the country the idea that ten republican senators and all the democratic senators would agree on some package of gun-related reforms they would all agree should pass. that said, lo and behold, maybe we skeptics were wrong. today the leader of the republicans in the senate, senator mitch mcconnell, crawled out of his shell and said that he, too, supports this modest package of gun reforms. which would imply that it's not going to be just ten republicans that support it if their leader is supporting it, that means it might be a whole bunch of them, certainly enough to get it passed. now, we are -- we have all been burned too many times on this issue. right? to actually believe this before we see it in action. but honestly, this announcement today by the republican senate leader mitch mcconnell, it's not nothing. after decades of nothing from republicans as the gun massacres have just piled up, i mean, maybe this new announcement from the new republican side on the senate maybe this isn't exactly nothing. but we shall see when it comes time to vote on something. caveat, buyer beware. this might first finally be the first not nothing we have had in decades. we also have eyes tonight on primary races. some interesting ones happening tonight in maine and nevada and north dakota and south carolina. there's also a really confusing special election for congressional seat in texas tonight, but just for somebody to hold that seat until january and then that seat will be up for a totally different kind of contest. the texas special election tonight is a very twisty cone of soft ice cream in terms of understanding the immediate implications of how that special election in texas is going to go, but there are primaries in these other four states. again, nevada, south carolina, maine and north dakota. most of the focus tonight has been on south carolina. in south carolina, there are two incumbent republican members of congress facing republican challengers backed by former president trump. that's worth watching for sure in terms of the overall balance of power in the house ultimately, but also sort of the power of trumpism in an on going way in the republican party. we'll get results from those key south carolina races and all the latest on the primaries from those four states from the great steve kornacki monitoring those results from his patented big board. steve, we'll see you in just a few minutes. speaking of the former president and his influence over the modern republican party, today you should know is the former president's birthday. donald trump turns 76 years old today. as the world's worst birthday present for a former president, the new york state court system informed former president trump and his son don and his daughter ivanka that they all three must show up and give sworn testimony in the civil case that's being pursued against the trump family business by new york's attorney general tish james. they had been pushing very hard to avoid having to personally testify in this case. you might remember when eric trump, the other son, the blonde one, was compelled to testify in this same case last fall, the new york attorney general says eric trump in that deposition he pled the fifth. against self incrimination more than 500 times in response to more than 500 different questions. he took the fifth. so, yeah. as of today, per the new york state courts, the eldest trump son, not the blonde one, and daughter ivanka and former president trump himself, they are all going to have to give sworn testimony in that civil case next month. you want to set your alarm for it or inevitable public meltdown as that testimony date approaches, right now that testimony is on the books for july 15th. so one month from tomorrow. happy birthday. see you in court. and you know, it's interesting thinking about sworn depositions from the former president and more of his kids in that case, which really does threaten the existence of the trump family business. one of the things that just keeps becoming newly relevant over and over again about the former president about this question of whether he'll be president again, his continuing hold on the republican party, his efforts to transform that party into an anti-democracy sort of authoritarian force, the question of whether he will face state criminal charges in georgia or federal criminal charges indeed. the question of whether he might lose his family business in this civil fraud case in new york. the question of whether he will succeed in overturning future u.s. elections the way he tried to overturn the last one, on and on and on. one of the things that seemed small at the start of our understanding of him as a public figure, but just newly keeps becoming relevant for all these important questions about the future of our country, there's this u fact we keep coming back around to which is that trump likes weird lawyers. he likes lawyers who like put a little extra hot sauce on everything they do. he likes weird lawyers who do their jobs not like normal lawyers. option up with a real focus on that with rudy giuliani. as to whether or not whole day of news coverage, he is denying he was drunk when he reportedly advised president trump to declare victory on election night even though trump had lost. mr. giuliani had his law license suspended in new york. may lose his law license in washington, d.c. as well. i mean, mr. giuliani is trump's kind of lawyer, but he's not an outlier in terms of the kind of lawyers that trump chooses. i mean, this is a former president who is in more legal trouble than any american president has ever been before by a factor of 10,000. but, he likes lawyers like rudy giuliani. he likes consistently lawyers who approach their work say like this. >> i'm warning you, [ bleep ] tread very lightly because what i'm going to do to do you is to be [ bleep ] disgusting. do you understand me? don't think you can hide behind your pen because it's not going to happen. >> even before rudy giuliani was the highest profile trump attorney in the country that was michael cohen had 180 degree turn around in his life. he is now diametrically opposed to all things donald trump. he, in fact, apologized for threatening that reporter. what i'm going to do to you is going to be fing disgusting. when he was working for donald trump, that's how he talked to reporters. that's what trump was looking for from his lawyer. here is another gem from that crowd. >> his attorney john dowd has promised to appeal those convictions. this is the video i was talking about. cnbc caught up with mr. dowd just a short time ago. >> get the [ bleep ] out of here. >> wow. >> that's what i got for cnbc. yeah. take that. rudy giuliani now, right, we had michael cohen before him what i'm going to do to you is going to be fing disgusting. he also hired this gentleman to be one of his lawyers at his first impeachment, the trump lawyer who went to the floor of the house and made the argument outloud that trump shouldn't be impeached, obama should be impeached. this was the lawyer who made the argument that president obama is the real trader and he should be impeached not trump. that was his defense of trump in 2020, impeach obama four years after president obama had left office. which i'm sure trump thought was awesome. he likes his lawyers with extra hot sauce. he brought him on as a trump white house lawyer because that's what he likes in a lawyer. it turns out, though, if you have really sort of taste in terms of what you want from a lawyer, you want the guy with the hair dy ex running down his head, you know, somebody else threatening to do something fing disgusting to a reporter, running an impeach obama campaign from the floor of the house while you're being impeached, if that's your taste in lawyers, well, you're also going to have to live with that being the character of the lawyers that you're up against when they all inevitably turn against you, just like everyone has who has ever worked with you or for you in any capacity. and so that right now is why we got these particularly pungent slashing criticisms from one trump's kind of lawyers. from eric hershman he brought into the trump white house after his particularly bombastic performance as a trump impeachment defense lawyer. >> as a combination of italians and germans different things floating around as to who was involved. and affidavit from somebody who says they wrote a software something with the philippines. just all over the radar. i thought, the dominion stuff was -- i never saw any evidence whatsoever to sustain those allegations. what they were proposing i thought was nuts. the theory was also completely nuts. right is this. >> that's trump white house lawyer eric hershman, part of his deposition testimony to the january 6th investigation. you can tell he's a trump lawyer because he has a baseball bat on the wall behind him that says justice on it. that's the kind of hot sauce trump likes in a lawyer, right? but in this case he's not defending trump anymore. he's not saying impeach trump, no. go back in time and impeach obama. this time, this time, he's taking a part what he depicts to the january 6th investigators as just the stupidity in his characterization of some of the far-fetched claims of supposed fraud that the president wanted to use as the excuse for overthrowing the u.s. government. that testimony that we just saw there that i just played here moments ago, we saw that testimony from him before today. then this evening the january 6th investigators released a new taped statement from republican vice chair liz cheney. she included at the end of her statement something else from trump lawyer eric hershman to get us ready for what's coming next from the investigation's next hearing. >> in our next hearing on thursday, the select committee will examine president trump's relentless effort on january 6th and in the days beforehand to pressure vice president pence to refuse to count lawful, electoral votes. as a federal judge indicated, this likely violated two federal criminal statutes. president trump had no factual basis for what he was doing and he had been told it was illegal. despite this, president trump plotted with a lawyer named john eastman and others to overturn the outcome of the election on january 6th. to give you a sense of the gravity of these issues, here is a clip of one of president trump's own white house lawyers eric hershman who talks to mr. eastman the day after january 6th. >> it was the day after. eastman -- i don't remember why he called me. or he texted me or called me and wanted to talk with me and said he couldn't reach others. and he started to ask me about something dealing with georgia and preserving something potentially for appeal. and i said to him, are you out of your fing mind? right? i said i only want to hear two words coming out of your mouth from now on, orderly transition. i don't want to hear any other fing words coming out of your mouth no matter what other than orderly transition. repeat those words to me. and i screamed -- eventually he said orderly transition. i said, good, john. now i'm going to give you the best free legal advice you're ever getting in your life. get a great fing criminal defense lawyer. you're going to need it. and then i hung up on him. >> that was released tonight by the january 6th investigation. get a great fing criminal defense lawyer, you're going to need it. and then i hung up on him. this is the best free legal advice you're ever getting in your life. you know, note to self, you like to hire bombastic lawyers who talk like this when they defend you, well, they're also going to talk like that when they decide they're not going to defend you anymore because now they come to believe you're part of a criminal enterprise and they're willing to testify about that under oath. the substance of what mr. hershman is sort of blustering at here, though, with a bat over his shoulder to send home the point, the substance of what he's blustering at is a real thing. john eastman was another of this illustrious pantheon of trump lawyers. he really knows how to pick 'em. eastman has been litigating in federal court against subpoenas he received from the january 6th investigation and he said in his litigation that he was acting as an attorney to president trump and there's such a thing as attorney/client privilege. that's a real thing. it says prosecutors basically aren't allowed to see communications that happened between a person and their lawyer. a person is entitled to confidential legal advice that you can keep secret from the government even in the face of a subpoena. that said, the attorney/client privilege is not limitless. and in the case of trump and this lawyer john eastman, in the litigation where eastman is trying to keep his communications and his documents secret, keep them away from investigators, a federal judge now ruled twice in recent weeks that eastman actually has to hand over these communications and documents to the investigation. even though he was acting as trump's lawyer because even though there is such a thing as attorney/client privilege, you can't use it to cover up a crime. you can't use it to keep secret the evidence that a lawyer and a client were actually planning crimes together. and a judge has ruled already that trump and eastman were making forth with the criming. and therefore eastman has to hand over his documents and communications because crime. because there is a crime/fraud exception to the attorney/client privilege. the judge believes that is likely implicated in this case that they were plotting a crime together and therefore his documents and communications have to be hand over to the investigation. and that is a very substantive thing for a federal judge to conclude. and that is why eric hershman in classic trump lawyer language told the other trump lawyer john eastman that he was going to give him the best free legal advice you're ever getting in your life. get a great fing criminal defense lawyer, you're going to need it and then i hung up. that's why you're getting that between trump lawyers. and that also is what liz cheney was getting at in this little part of her intro there, in this specific part of it. >> president trump's relentless effort on january 6th and in the days beforehand to pressure vice president pence to refuse to count lawful, electoral votes. as a federal judge has indicated, this likely violated two federal criminal statutes. >> trump's effort on january 6th to pressure vice president pence he should refuse to count the votes likely violated two statutes. per a ruling, likely violated two federal laws when they pressured mike pence the way that they did. and what she specifically describing, you can check it in the judge's ruling, are these two federal statutes. 18 u.s. code section 15.12 c and 18 u.s. code section 371. in plain english, obstruction of an official proceeding and conspiracy to defraud the united states. and you know, there's been all this talk in the last -- i hate people in the media doing media criticism, but i'm just going to say this because i feel like this is an issue that needs a little fence put around it, it's getting blown up into a bigger deal than it actually is. there's been all this talk over the past few months but particularly in the past couple days about whether or not the january 6th investigation at the end of their investigation, whether they're going to make formal referrals to the u.s. department of justice about prosecuting crimes that the investigation has turned up. there's all this focus on whether or not all the members of the committee feel the same way about that issue, what they said whether they're going to issue criminal referrals or not issue criminal referrals. honestly it's kind of mute. here tonight in this video released on twitter, congresswoman liz cheney is making criminal referrals. right? laying out the evidence, the committee, the investigation has been laying out the evidence that they have found potential crimes. they have named the federal statutes they believe were violated and they named the people who they say did it. i mean, that's a criminal referral. whether or not you write it down or you say it in a video that's posted online from the official twitter account of the january 6th investigation, that's it. i mean, what else do you want? this is the january 6th investigators serving the volleyball over the net to federal prosecutors. >> as a federal judge has indicated, this likely violated two federal criminal statutes. president trump had no factual basis for what he was doing. and he had been told it was illegal. >> he had been told it was illegal. it was not based in any factual truth about the world. meaning he did it and he did it with corrupt intent which means it's prosecutable in the view of january 6th investigation vice chair republican congress woman liz cheney. in terms of what happens next here, the next january 6th hearing is not going to be tomorrow. it's going to be thursday. and the thursday hearing is going to be about the pressure on vice president mike pence that he had to overturn the election. the original plan had been there would be another hearing before that. there would be a hearing tomorrow about trump's efforts to use the justice department toover throw the government. that hearing will still happen but it has been delayed. they're going to slow down and try to do two hearings a week instead of three hearings a week which honestly seems fine. do it at whatever pace you need to do to get it right. but with all the hearings that we've got on deck, i think we now realize you are -- from the list of witnesses we're told to expect from the witnesses we have seen already from the depositions we know have been taken, i think we can see you're going to see the same pattern at work throughout. you're going to see trump lawyers and trump's kind of lawyer, right, guys like bill barr, who frankly happily spread trump lies before and after the election that democrats were perpetrated some terrible shenanigans around the election. bill barr was as much of a problem on this issue in terms of making false claims about the election ahead of things really going to hell in a hand basket around january 6th, bill barr for all that he did wrong specifically on this issue, nevertheless, bill barr is bailing out on trump now and now testifying under oath that everything trump was pushing to the public was a lie and he knew it was a lie. another trump lawyer, richard donohue, the number two at the justice department after barr left, he was right there along with bill barr. actually inserting himself into the process. and making the justice department spend real resources investigating these made-up, ridiculous on their face fraud claims as if they were real things. richard donohue helping very much in those -- if that regard, but in the end, nevertheless, bailing out when he was asked to do too much and now richard donohue as well will be testifying under oath that everything trump was pushing was a lie and he knew it was a lie. lawyers like eric hershman, the impeach obama, trump white house lawyer to the end, now bailing out and testifying under oath that everything trump was pushing to the public was a lie and he knew it was a lie. we are going to keep getting this from more and more of them on every aspect of the scheme and because it's the way trump likes his lawyers, we're going to get it all with extra hot sauce. and extra bluster and extra swear words. and apparently with referrals for federal criminal prosecution, live and outloud in realtime as they roll out the evidence. and, yes, it is getting through. again, i am allergic to media criticism, but you know what go up to the upper left corner of the country, here is the anchorage daily news, front page, trump's inner circle warned him election fraud claims were false. portland, maine, advisers told trump election fraud claims were false. go to the middle of the country, detroit free press, aides warned trump to stop. here is the star tribune in minneapolis, minnesota, allied warned trump election claims were false. i mean, what you're seeing here is distilled. these are the headline versions of what liz cheney is spelling out as the predicate for federal criminal charges. so much ink and so much hot hair. it's getting across. people are getting it. it's getting across to the country as clear as you can possible imagine thanks in part to trump's own taste in lawyers. thanks to them it's getting through with some extra sauce on it. which makes it harder to miss. more to come. stay with us.
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