That is all in on this monday night. The Rachel Maddow show starts with ali velshi in for rachel. Thank you for filling in for me last week. I appreciate it. You have been on quite a tear so im glad to see you back and refreshed. Good to see you, my friend. You too. And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. Rachel has a well deserved night off. Weve got a lot to get to after whats been another very busy day. With coronavirus cases exploding across the country, we learned today that yet another Trump Administration official has tested positive for covid19. Trump National Security advisor, Robert Obrien, is now the highest ranking white house official yet to be infected. With the virus continuing to spread unchecked, even at the highest levels of our government, it is no wonder that were still dealing with the economic fallout from this pandemic. Nearly 30 million americans are still unemployed. Their supplemental Unemployment Benefits are set to expire this weekend. For some they have received their last check. And yet the latest Economic Relief bill being proposed by republicans would slash those benefits, presumably at a time when they are needed the most. Were going to talk with congresswoman karen bass about where negotiations go from here. Karen bass is also on joe bidens vp short list, and the two of them were together today, so a lot to talk to her about. Plus, with just 99 days left until the election, there are now new questions about what will happen if President Trump refuses to accept the results on november 3rd. Turns out that theres a whole group of people who are literally gaming out what would happen in that scenario. Let me tell you, the whole thing is very bracing. Well have more on that a little bit later in the show. So there is a lot to cover. And it comes after what has already been a truly historic day in our nations capital. We call things historic a lot, but this really was. This afternoon the body of the late congressman john lewis returned to washington, d. C. , for the last time. His funeral procession highlighting the trajectory of a life well lived, from a young civil rights leader to a veteran lawmaker deemed the conscience of congress. It paused at the Martin Luther king jr. Memorial. A nod to the man who helped inspire his early activism and alongside whom he marched. It later passed by the lincoln memorial, where in 1963 at the age of 23, lewis was the youngest speaker at the march on washington. Finally, making its way through the newly minted black lives matter plaza where just last month he made his final appearance in support of the black lives matter movement. Eventually the body of congressman lewis returned to capitol hill where he spent more than 30 years in public service. A military honor guard carried his flagdraped coffin up the steps and into the Capitol Rotunda where he was laid to rest upon the same platform, the same catafalque that once held the body of president abraham lincoln. Throughout the day leaders of both parties paid their respects. He was honored by Sonia Sotomayor as well as Vice President mike pence and his wife and joe biden with his wife, dr. Jill biden. One moment in particular was the most poignant, when congressman john lewis own words echoed through the rotunda. 1957 i met rosa parks at the age of 17. In 1958 at the age of 18, i met Martin Luther king jr. And these two individuals inspired me to get in the way, to get in trouble. You must find a way to get in the way. You must finding a way to get i the way, to get in trouble, good trouble, necessary trouble. Must find a way to get in the way. You must find a way to get into trouble, good trouble, necessary trouble. Tonight despite the heat, thousands have lined up to pay their final respects to the congressman. Its a fitting tribute for a man who was filled with such moral clarity, especially when it came to the fights that needed to be waged to advance this country. As hes being laid to rest, many of those battles continue to be waged. Otherwise we learned this weekend that fight for change has been far from perfect. Protests continued in portland this weekend where demonstrators have been gathering nightly for two months. As has been the case night after night, the protests began peacefully. The wall of moms, a group of hundreds of women who have gathered together. They banded together literally to form a human shield for protesters were once again on sight, as were a group of dads, many armed at leaf blowers which are uniquely effective blowing tear gas away from the crowds. They were joined by military vets. But that show of unity once again turned violent last night as some in the crowd launched fireworks at federal agents. The agents responded with tear gas and flash bangs. With these standoffs getting more tense each and every day, the Washington Post is reporting the Trump Administration plans to send more federal agents to that city and to other cities around the country. Late tonight the mayor of portland said that he is calling for an immediate meeting with the department of Homeland Security to discuss a ceasefire and removal of heightened federal forces from portland. 175 miles away in seattle on saturday, demonstrations began was a show of solidarity with portlands protesters, but police say it devolved into a riot with dozens of people arrested and nearly 60 officers injured. This comes amid news that federal agents have been deployed to seattle as well. The situation has left local leaders outraged and worried that protesters are playing right into the president s hands. Quoting from the New York Times yesterday, mayor jenny durkin of seattle said in an interview sunday that the city is in the middle of a selffulfilling prophecy, with protesters infuriated by the federal presence in portland, smashing win doudows and settin fires. There is no question that the actions in portland have escalated things, not just in seattle, but nationwide she said. It seems that the administrations actions have lit a match in city after city. It wasnt just portland and seattle on edge this weekend. In los angeles, protesters and Police Clashed outside of federal courthouses this weekend. In louisville, opposing militia groups faced off at a demonstration in that city. A protesters in austin, texas, was shot and killed by a motorist who had a confrontation with the demonstrators. Were in a tinder box at the moment and its against this backdrop that the top Law Enforcement official in the country, attorney general william barr, is set to testify before congress for the first time in over a year. Tomorrow morning barr is expected to be pressed on the administrations response to the wave of protests that have engulfed the country since the policeinvolved death of george floyd. At the exact same time that that hearing is going on, were expected to hear from a National Guard officer who was called in during the protests in washington, d. C. s, Lafayette Square last month. According to testimony that was just made public today, he is supposed to tell lawmakers tomorrow morning that police moved suddenly on the d. C. Protesters, clearing the way without adequate warning before President Trumps staged photo op in front of st. Johns church. Hes expected to call out those aggressive tactics. He will say, quote, having served in a combat zone and understanding how to assess threat environments, at no time did i feel threatened by the protesters or assess them to be violent. From my observation, those demonstrators, our fellow american citizens, were engaged in the peaceful expression of their First Amendment rights. Yet they were subjected to an unprovoked escalation and excessive use of force, end quote. With that in mind, is it any wonder that protesters and demonstrators around the country are now skeptical of the federal forces that are being deployed to their cities . Joining us now, seattle mayor jep jenny durken. You have been watching whats going on in portland and have had some of this spread to your own city. Give me your impression of where things stand now and where you are with relation to the federal government and your talks with them. Theres no question that the actions of President Trump have escalated things not just in portland but across the country. I spoke with mayors from a number of cities today to see how we could have a unified voice to plead with the president to not do what he is doing. If he continues on this course, we are prepared to take whatever legal action is necessary. We will do what we need to do to make sure that our cities can be safe at a time when America Needs healing, this president is Sowing Division and it is having really devastating impacts in cities across america. Youve actually sent a few letters. On july 22nd you and 15 other mayors sent a letter to attorney general barr and the dhs secretary wolf urging them to not send federal troops to u. S. Cities. Today you sent another letter with five other mayors to congressional leaders asking them to take action. You say we call on congress to swiftly pass legislation to block the administration from sending unidentified federal agents to operate with impunity in our cities. You had a conversation where they said they wouldnt send federal agents without consulting you or the governor. Exactly right. He said he was not going to be surging agents to seattle. He would tell myself and our chief of police if that changed. Moments after we hung up, we learned that they indeed had sent additional federal agents here. I want to point out that both democrat and Republican Former heads of the department of Homeland Security have said this is the wrong way to go, including former governor tom ridge. This is not a republican or democrat issue. This is about america and the proper role of Law Enforcement. I hate to say it, but it looks like this president is doing a dress rehearsal for martial law, sending in federal forces to take over Police Duties in city after city for political purposes. It is frightening and its making things worse. It is not improved public security, it has decreased public safety. One of the things that you tweeted on friday, you said regardless of the president s threats, residents can and should continue to demonstrate peacefully and make their voices heard. But we cannot pretend that his comments are just bluster. What do you mean . It almost sounds like a warning, that you have the First Amendment, you should use it, but the president means business . I think thats exactly right. I mean i think one thing this president has shown is when he threatens division, he follows through on it. Weve seen in portland not only have they taken not taken a step to deescalate, reports are now theyre going to send more agents, possibly hundreds of agents. In a city of that size for a courthouse that is just a block, they are having hundreds of agents. And weve seen night after night after night the series of violent confrontations between the protesters, some of the protesters, and the federal response. We dont want to have that kind of fight. And if you i think one of the best things we could do in america is to stop giving the president what he wants. I think we want there to be protests. They make us better as a nation. Our country was born out of protest. But at the same time we want to make sure that those protests remain peaceful and that they dont overpower the really Important Message of black lives matter and the need to really dismantle systemic racism, not just in policing, but in every institution of government. Thats what we need to be focused on is the hard substantive work that we have to do. I truly believe that we will get more peace in the streets when we have more justice in the systems. But we need to be able to focus our energies on building that. The federal administration, the president and his people, are calling these protesters rioters and arsonists and saying that cities like yours cannot handle them. Is that true . Its not true. Look, there are individuals as we saw in seattle this weekend, as weve seen in portland and across in other cities, who are very focused on proper destruction and in causing an inciting conflict with police or with the federal authorities. But weve also seen millions of people turn out in the streets of america, raising their voices and challenging our government, including me and our government, to be better. And First Amendment rights have to be protected. Theres a balance that police will have to strike to make sure that they can protect public safety, not see the kind of destruction that we saw in seattle this weekend and last week. But we had weeks of peace in seattle. We had really been focused on the hard substantive change. And then when portland started to escalate, things escalated in seattle. And person after person when interviewed by the media on saturday was asked why they were there. They said they were there because of what the president was doing with federal authority. We need to stop that cycle. The best way to stop that is for him to give cities the help they need and the help we need right now is we need people to have Economic Relief and not have their unemployment cut. We need help on covid, because we are running out of testing supplies. If you want to help cities, thats the way to help us. But Sowing Division will not help any city in america and wont help america at large. Mayor, i appreciate your time tonight. Youve done a lot of work in your city so i appreciate you taking time to talk to us. Thank you. Coming up tonight we will be talking with congresswoman karen bass. Shes on the short list to be joe bidens running mate. Tonight the two were spotted together walking out after paying their respects to congressman john lewis. First, one more thing. That testimony i was telling you about on the use of force to clear away protesters in d. C. So the president could walk to the church for a photo op. That testimony comes again from an officer in the d. C. Army National Guard. In his prepared remarks, he said his understanding was he and the other guard members were there to respect the protesters First Amendment rights. The events i witnessed at Lafayette Square were deeply disturbing to me and to fellow guardsmen. He regards his testimony as fulfilling his oath to support and defend the constitution as an extension of his public service. Tonight we can report that this National Guard officer still serving will testify as a protected whistleblower. Quote, major demarco is appearing tomorrow under the military whistleblower protection act. His commitment is to country above all, and his decision to speak publicly is patriotism at its finest. Well be right back. brad how does apartmentsdotcom find new listings so quickly . 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And its perhaps because this photographic evidence is here, our National Security advisor failing to follow basic Public Health advice, that its not totally shocking to hear that he tested positive for coronavirus today. National security advisor Robert Obrien is the highest ranking official in the United States government to have been infected with coronavirus. The white house says mr. Obrien is experiencing only mild symptoms and selfisolating at home. They also say he didnt expose the president or the Vice President but he does join the evergrowing list of officials and staffers in regular, close contact with the president who have come down with the virus. By this point the white houses seemingly cavalier behavior toward protecting themselves from infection is less than surprising. Here was the president s top Economic Advisor on the white house lawn today talking to reporters with his nose popping over the top of his mask. Thats not how you mask. The mask sliding down the face of the president s Economic Advisor is perhaps a kind of a metaphor for the white houses approach to the economic freefall that the country is in right now because of the pandemic. Tonight Democratic Leaders in congress sat down with the white house officials to open formal talks about the next coronavirus economic recovery bill. The details are being worked out. But what is becoming clear is that the new republican recovery bill does not include extending the 600aweek federal unemployment boost that 30 million unemployed americans have been collecting for months. Those benefits are set to expire this weekend, with millions of people out of work, relying on that federal unemployment boost. Rips are proposing slashing the enhangsed benefits to 200 a week instead of 600 a week. With the spread of coronavirus continuing and states starting to shut down businesses again, the economic fallout for millions of americans is not getting any better. So why is the republican relief plan, why is it operating under the assumption that things are Getting Better . Joining us now, congresswoman karen bass, a democrat from california. She is the chair of the congressional black caucus. Shes also on the Judiciary Committee which will be holding a hearing with attorney general william barr tomorrow morning. Congresswoman, thank you for being here. I always appreciate your time. But this is a very, very important time. This is a very important time. So Many Americans have relied upon this federal boost to unemployment. It is over already for a number of americans and the republicans are planning to replace that with 200 despite the fact that millions remain unemployed. What does the future look like for you and the negotiations between congress and the white house about this . Well, i think its going to be very important that we hold fast, because their entire premises is that the reason why people are not going back to work is because they are paid too much money, which is absolutely ridiculous. I also think it is so offensive when millionaires, multimillionaires, sit around and argue over a 600 check and have no problem at all giving away billions and billions that they dont even want to be accountable for where its going. And so unfortunately the Administration Still hasnt come to grips with the pandemic, but the question i have is when will the president , when will the Administration Come up with a National Strategy and recognize that you are not going to get the economy back to where it needs to be until you address covid. And thats really the issue. The president and his Economic Advisor, larry kudlow, who we showed there with the nose outside of the mask, they have this belief that if you just get back to work, its all going to be fine. And yet were seeing a lot of states setting brand new covid records. Were seeing massive hospitalizations. Were seeing we continue to see a higher death toll. Its just not that things are going to open up on their own. There is an infection out there that for the moment in america is uncontrolled. Well, denial is no strategy. And what im concerned about, though, is that the Administration Just wants to act as though the virus is not there. We all go back to doing what were going to do, and we need to accept that a number of people are going to die. But almost 150,000 people have died in the last four months, and the president never even mentions them, doesnt mention a name, doesnt mention a story. No amount of empathy. And so i think hes willing to accept a lot more americans dying, maybe under the illusion that if everybody gets exposed like in herd immunity then thats the way were going to get past this. We have to do what the scientists tell us to do. And until we do this, were not even going to get past the first phase of this virus. All the other countries have passed us by. Theres really no excuse for this at all. Congresswoman, you and i talk fairly frequently. Id like to think that we have a nice rapport, so this is awkward because politico ran a story that says karen bass rises as sleeper pick to be joe bidens vp. I dont want our relationship to get all formal now that youre considered to be a Vice President shl candidate. Bass has drawn endorsements from a motley crue of political influencers from marcos to george will who described the congresswoman as a soother and noted how she got along with Kevin Mccarthy of california as well when they served together in the california state legislature. Thats high praise. A lot of people saying youre the person that Vice President joe biden should be thinking about as a Vice President ial pick. And today you were caught chatting with him. Yes. You know, i believe that the president the Vice President , soon to be president , 99 days until the election, that he is going to pick the best person. He knows the job, he was in the job. I just have to say that the women that everyone is talking about, and no one knows whos on the list and who isnt on the list, are phenomenal women. And any of them would be fantastic. I am going to do everything i can to make sure that he gets elected and once elected make sure that hes a successful president. What im saddened by, though, is that by the time he raises his hand in january to be sworn in, im hoping that we dont have a quarter of a million of dead americans and im hoping that our economy is not teetering on a depression. But, you know, until the republicans act, you know that they have had that bill sitting in their chamber for over two months and they wait until people are on the brink of suffering until they decide to go into negotiations. So theres so much that needs to be done. Im hoping that our country can hang on until Vice President biden is sworn in as our next president. Watching john lewis memorial today, it was remarkable. It was hard to see because everybody had a mask on, but it just kind of looked like everybody was crying. What was going through your mind today . I will tell you that speaker pelosi, it was just an incredibly beautiful short and sweet ceremony. But i think the most impactful time was when in her presentation she said that she was going to yield to the congressman, and all of us were sitting there wondering who was going to get up and speak and then we heard mr. Lewis voice. And i think everybody just sat back and it was just so powerful. Like his presence was in the room in such a significant way. And i know for myself personally, standing next to his coffin and feeling the weight of responsibility that now that he is gone, those of us that are here have got to pick up the baton and run across the finish line. And the finish line is really in 99 days. The idea that we are still fighting some of the same fights and the idea that this administration has come up with some pretty diabolical ways to suppress the vote, slowing down the mail, making people risk their lives to go vote in person instead of voting at home where its safe, and so i dont care what tricks they come up with, in john lewis honor, we are going to organize and turn out that vote and get our country back in shape. You know, this president has just torn us apart in so many ways domestically and internationally. Theres an awful lot that needs to be done, and i believe that President Biden will be a healer in chief and, frankly, that is what we need. Congresswoman, always a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for being with us today. Congresswoman karen bass, democrat from california. Still ahead tonight, a checkin on one of the nations hardesthit coronavirus hot spots. The Health Official on the front lines of an increasingly dire situation joins us next. Stay with us. Ngly dire situation joins us next. Stay with us tech well fix it right with nocontact service you can trust. Tech so if you have auto glass damage, stay safe with safelite. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. In a highly capable lexus suv. At the golden opportunity sales event. Get zero percent financing on all 2020 lexus models. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Little things can become your big moment. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not a cream. Its a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. With otezla, 75 clearer skin is achievable. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. It may cause severe diarrhea, nausea or vomiting. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. 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By the end of last week the New York Times counted 18 states that each set singleday records for new cases. You can see that sea of red flooding the south and the west of the country. As of today the New York Times says you can add louisiana, tennessee, oklahoma and alaska to the map. Each of them broke their previous records just yesterday. Weve seen case numbers rise in the south and southwest for weeks with few signs of letting up. Typically after a rise in infections, we eventually see more deaths. Sure enough saturday was the fifth consecutive day that this country saw more than 1,000 people die from this virus in one day. We havent seen that level of death since the back half of may when the virus had started to abate in new york, which was the countrys initial epicenter. Now were in the back half of july, and other states have already overtaken new york in total number of infections. As of this weekend florida now has more reported coronavirus cases than new york did with more than 432,000 total infections on record, but theres one state that overtops both new york and florida, its california. California remains at the top of the charts since passing new yorks total last week. And texas is right behind those three on the list hovering just below 400,000 cases. As of yesterday, more than 5,000 people have now died from the virus in texas, and the pace of this death toll is not letting up. Keep this in mind. It took texas ten days to go from 3,000 deaths to 4,000 deaths. And only six days to get to 5,000 deaths. Even outside of hospitals, the state is having trouble handling this kind of mass casualty. According to the texas tribune, the states Funeral Homes and crematoriums and cemeteries are overrun. Some families are having to wait more than a week before being able to bury their loved ones. In the hospitals, the effort to prevent april in new york is becoming insurmountable. Dr. Melendez who coordinates medical care for Hidalgo County spoke to nbc news about the death toll hes seeing in his county. We knew that we had all the elements of a perfect storm. We are the number one and number two every year of being the poorest area in the country, being the most obese in the country, having the greatest diabetes in the country. We went from 12 people dying in two and a half months to 35 people dying in one morning. Two and a half months versus one morning. We went from a couple of people on ventilators to close to 200. So eight people in the icus to way over 200. From 37 people at the highest in the hospital to over 1,000. So we never in our nightmare thought that during hurricane season, which one is brewing, that we would be set up for a perfect storm, a tsunami, if you will. Well, this weekend that metaphorical perfect storm got very real. Hurricane hanna whipped through with high winds, rain and flooding. Dr. Melendez got stuck in his home with no electricity because of downed trees. He was left to decide whether to put a 58yearold coronavirus patient on a ventilator over the phone. When describing why being facetoface for that decision is important, he said, quote, you look in the peoples eyes. Youll know if theyre in despair. Joining us, dr. Melendez. Thank you, sir, for being with us. You described very well the situation in Hidalgo County where it is poor. There is higher than average incidence of obesity, diabetes and things that create underlying conditions that make it tougher for people who suffer from coronavirus. Its also a place where people cant work from home as easily. Family count numbers are higher so social distancing is harder. People without an income are desperate to work. It really is the perfect storm. Why did it get this bad . Boy, thats a really, really good question why it got this bad. But, first of all, i am reminded that i need to thank you for you being so gracious and not forgetting about us down in the rio grand valley. Our 1. 2 million population of folks are still in the same situation so im just grateful that you havent forgotten and youve come back to check in with us to let us know what is currently going on. I think as we mentioned previously, we have all the ingredients, if you will, of creating a kind of unique scenario. You speak of 1,000 people dying a day in the United States w our relatively small population of 1. 2 million, we had 50. The rest of the country had 1,000. And so the scenario continues. I can tell you that i just got in from my rounds. I had 34 patients today, 28 were covid patients. Of those 28, i would estimate about 20 are just waiting to go to heaven. It just seems like were getting one set of moribund patients. They process and go through the system. Then we get another group of people that have that same dire outcome. So we havent changed. The storm was extremely impactful to us. Our numbers today are way undercounted because the floods have put out even our Information Technology systems, and weve had some severe impact because of this 70mileperhour wind and flooding and damage to the structures that have occurred. So it has gotten worse. I want to ask you, dr. Melendez, about what happens across the border in mexico. The storm was actually more impactful there. Do you know what the situation is on the other side . Because what you are describing in some ways is mirrored on the other side of the border. Absolutely, absolutely i do. And you have to remember that our population, our grandparents and our cousins and our colleagues, were a large community, and are on both sides of the river. You dont ask for appropriate papers or documentation and we treat everyone, regardless. My colleagues report and they have sent me videos that demonstrate that some of their hospitals are a foot underwater. You see people are pushing gurneys under a foot of water. You see completely disregard for their own personal wellbeing with an appropriate mask being completely wet. So sometimes when we get so frustrated, you know, of the problems that we have here, during our storm we had water coming in through the electrical fixtures, water coming in through the walls as we were trying to intubate people or put central lines in. We feel so discouraged. And yet you just take a brief pause and you understand that just four miles south of here, their situation is is enough to make you cry. Dr. Melendez, we will not forget you, we will keep on coming back until you get the resources that you and the people of Hidalgo County deserve. Thank you, sir, for everything that you are doing to save lives in america. Dr. Ivan melendez, a Health Authority in Hidalgo County, texas. Thank you for your time, sir. We are now in double digits. Just 99 days to go before the november election. 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Today the president got bad news out of North Carolina. An nbc news marist poll finds him trailing biden by seven in that state. It followed two polls over the weekend showing trump behind in arizona, and another that showed trump trailing in florida by five. Floridas gone for the eventual winner in each of the last six general elections. This time around the president has not led in polls in florida for four months now. His poor performance in surveys there actually caused the Cook Political Report to change the states status from the perennial place among tossups to lean democratic. The president and his supporters have continued to attack the polls as biased and flawed. Thats one thing to trust or question political polls. Its another to cast doubt on the validity of the election itself, as trump continues to do with his relentless attacks on mailin ballots. A week ago the president told foxs Chris Wallace that mailin voting would, quote, rig the election. Asked if he would accept the election results, the president said, quote, ill have to see. Over the weekend i interviewed the National Press secretary for trumps reelection campaign, who echoed the president s comments. Democrats who are pushing for this universal mailin Voting System that all experts will tell you is life with the opportunity for fraud, waste, for cheating. Will the president acknowledge the decision of the American People if he doesnt win the election . Again, if it is done properly, absolutely he will. The mailin voting were talking about, universal and life with fraud, im not going to promise to you today that im going to abide by the election if it was fraudulent in any way. That would be absolutely foolish on my part. Of course concerns about the president refusing to leave office are nothing new, but actual countertop exercise, a design to plan what would happen in such an event, that is actually new. The boston globe reports that a Bipartisan Group recently gathered in secret to game out a contested election. In june the group of political operatives, former government and military officials and academics quietly convened online, grappling with questions that seem less farfetched by the day. What if President Trump refuses to concede a loss and how far could he go to preserve his power . Each scenario involved a different election outcome. An unclear result on election day that looked increasingly like a biden win as more ballots were counted. A clear biden win in the popular vote and the Electoral College, an Electoral College win for trump with biden winning the popular vote by five Percentage Points and a narrow Electoral College and popular vote victory for biden. Organizer rosa brooks telling the globe, quote, all of our scenarios ended in streetlevel violence and political impasse. Joining us now, rosa brooks. She served for two years in the Obama Administration as a counselor to the undersecretary of defense for policy. Shes now a coorganizer of the transition integrity project. Ms. Brooks, thank you for being here. This has become a question that has gone from people saying its ridiculous to talk about, clearly its not up to donald trump to accept to accept or no the results of an election. But people are now wondering what are the actual mechanics . What happens after election day, which by the way might not be by other election days because of the number of absentee ballots and mailin ballots. What happens . Nothing very good happened. And i should say at the get go that our exercises were not exactly secret and it is covered by the boston globe. But what were trying to do is get a group of people together to talk about some of the what ifs. Not to make predictions, and i want to be clear on that, these are not predictions at all. These are looking at some of the possible worst Case Scenarios that might come about. And in the scenarios we looked at, i just mentioned the ones we looked at, a narrow biden win, a trump win and a situation like the election like 2000 where the results wont be known for some time and they ended in an impasse because what we saw, and, again, these are exercises. They dont predict the future. There are all sorts of artificial restraints. But we see the team playing the Trump Campaign each time was pretty ruthless right out of the gate. The team playing the Biden Campaign the eought they had to abide by rule of law and norms. Bless them for it, obviously. But what happened was that the trump Team Immediately began to challenge the results, immediately began to assert, for instance, as we have seen them try to do in reallife already, that the results of all mailin ballots were fraudulent. We saw them in our exercises try to stop mailin ballots from being counted, tried to sequester mailin ballots and shut down the post office to prevent mailin ballots. We saw them trying when they failed to do that in some of our scenarios to send rival states to congress. All of the scenarios ended with an impasse at which point we said, lets stop. Lets stop right here and be brief and talk about what just happened because the goal of these exercises is not to keep everybody up at night thinking, oh, my god, i had no idea things could go so wrong in this election but rather to really identify that we can take steps between now and the election to make sure that we do have a free and Fair Election with results that really do reflect the will of the American People. There was a quote in the boston globe about this in which it said in one of your scenarios both sides turned out massive street protests that trump sought to control. In one scenario he invoked the insurrection act. The scenario that began with a narrow biden win ended with trump refusing to leave the white house, burning government documents and having to be escorted out by the secret service. Is it the you know, there was a Washington Post article that said biden said hes convinced that trump may not leave, but leaders, military leaders will escort him out. Who escorts the president out if he says no . Thats a great question and no one really knows the answer to that. I think we should all be careful what we wish for. I dont think it will be a happy day for american democracy if the u. S. Military somehow had to get involved in forcing a president out of office. That would be a terrible, awful, tragic day for american democracy. Thats what we want to try to prevent. I think what we have seen, though, you know, its funny, when we first started this effort to try to start thinking about doing these scenario exercises back in last winter, the reaction of a lot of people was, oh, come on, thats paranoid. It will all be fine. I think what we have seen since then, between the impact of the pandemic and the disruptions to balloting that thats caused and President Trumps own comments and his actions in the wake of the protests following the killing of george floyd, his willingness to threaten to invoke the insurrection act to send active duty military troops into american cities, his actions more recently in portland, i think thats shaken people and forced them to say, oh, boy, this isnt just a paranoid fear. These are actions that it really does look like the Trump Administration is starting to contemplate. So i do think it would be a terrible tragic outcome if anybody were to force trump out of office. I think the important takeaway for me from these exercises is, as i said, these are not predictions. These are possible worst case what ifs. Right. But i think one of the lessons of them is forewarned is forearmed. If we want to avoid a situation like that, number one, i think Everybody Needs to understand this is not going to be a typical election. It is almost certain that we will not know the results by early in the morning after election day because there will be so many mailin ballots that it will take days, if not weeks, to count them. And that doesnt mean there is some kind of funny business to count them. Thats normal. There is no reason whatsoever to think that those mailin ballots are anymore likely to be fraudulent than absentee ball lols have been in the past. So people need to understand that. Yeah. They also need to understand that at the end of the day we live in a system that depends on voluntarily adherence to the law and to a set of norms. The same reason people stop at stop signs even when there are no Police Officers around is because we basically agree that the whole world is safer if we do that. But when you have a powerful president with all the powers of the executive branch at his disposal who thinks i dont need to stop at stop signs, why should i . Thats incredibly dangerous. And the only way to prevent Something Like that from hijacking the election is the old adage of vigilance is the price of liberty. We need to be reinforcing those laws, those norms right now. We need to be thinking through the worst Case Scenarios so that if and more likely when the Trump Administration attempts to flap those norms, everybody is ready to challenge it in court and to challenge it through peaceful protests ultimately if necessary. Were going to continue this conversation because there is a lot to digest here. A georgetown law professor, former Defense Department official. Thanks for your time. Well be right back. Be right ba. 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