Might remember that one of the impeachment hearings that the Judiciary Committee held was one where they heard from a panel of constitutional scholars about the legal threshold for impeachment, and how members of congress should understand the seriousness of the president s behavior, in light of what the founders meant and what they wrote when they wrote impeachment into our constitutional system of government. One of the scholars that Congress Heard from in those hearings is pam karlan, professor pam karlan whos sort of a legal superstar from Stanford Law School. Little to be known at the time that professor pam karlan from Stanford Law School is also a person who could see very clearly six months into the future, to predict for us, at that impeachment hearing, the news that would happen today in the middle of this epidemic. The list of Impeachable Offenses that the framers included in the constitution shows that the essence of an Impeachable Offense is a president s decision to sacrifice the National Interest for his own private ends. Imagine living in a part of louisiana or texas thats prone to devastating hurricanes and flooding. What would you think if you lived there and your governor asked for a meeting with the president to discuss getting disaster aid that congress has provided for, what would you think if that president said i would like to do you i would like you to do us a favor, ill meet with you and ill send the Disaster Relief once you brand my opponent a criminal . Wouldnt you know in your gut that such a president had abused his office, that he betrayed the National Interest, and that he was trying to corrupt the electoral process . I believe that the evidentiary record shows wrongful acts on that scale here. Professor pam karlan, in the impeachment hearings for President Trump, reaching there for a hypothetical example of president ial abuse of power so obvious, so outrageous, so clearly wrong to any observer that this hypothetical would clarify the nature of the impeachment allegations the president was facing. What would you think if the president wouldnt send Disaster Relief to a state unless that state took an action that would help him win reelection in that state . Cant we all agree that such an outrageous hypothetical would be a clear instance of president ial wrongdoing . Wouldnt that be just outrageous . Well, no, apparently, that would just be a wednesday six months later in the Trump Presidency in the middle of this disaster. Because today President Trump really did threaten the state of michigan that he would hold up funding to the state unless that state stopped preparations to vote by mail in the next election, because the president has decided he doesnt like people being able to vote by mail. He randomly calls voting by mail illegal, said it is illegal for michigan to send out absentee ballot applications to voters. Its not at all illegal. But after declaring it illegal, the president then says he will cut off michigans federal funding if they keep doing it. It should be noted that this happened today on a day when not only is michigan dealing with one of the worst death tolls in the country in the coronavirus catastrophe right now, they are also dealing, since yesterday, with catastrophic flooding in the central part of the state. So shame about whats happening in your state, make it harder for people to vote in the next election, or ill cut off all federal funds that youre getting. Soon thereafter, the president also accused the state of nevada of acting in some mysteriously illegal fashion. By also planning vote by mail options for the next election. The president also threatened to cut off their federal funding unless they stopped making those plans. And it is not a mystery as to why this is happening, right . The president believes that if too many people vote that will disadvantage him in his reelection efforts, so he is threatening states to make it harder to vote, or else they will get their disaster funds cut off. In the middle of the pandemic. I would usually at this point say you cant make this stuff up. But professor pam karlan from Stanford Law School literally made this exact thing up as a hypothetical to try to explain the cartoonishly evil nature of the president s alleged crimes in the impeachment scandal, to try to explain to the country the risks of not removing a president from office who has shown he will use the power of the Government Office he holds to try to rig his reelection effort. What you would think if you lived there and your governor asked for a meeting with the president to discuss getting disaster aid that congress has provided for, what would you think if that president said i would like to do you i would like you to do us a favor . Wouldnt you know in your gut that such a president had abused his office . That he betrayed the National Interest, and that he was trying to corrupt the electoral process . Yes, we do know that in our gut. We do know that in our gut. But apparently, we just live with that kind of stuff happening right out in the open now. You can see, actually, when he tweeted these things today he tagged the secretary of the treasury and he tagged the guy who runs the Budget Office in the white house, thats to make sure the threat to cut off funds is really unsubtle. It really puts some teeth in that threat. Professor pam karlan speaking six months ago warning us of this in a hypothetical designed to portray cartoonishly evil and impeachable behavior by a president , and then he just lives up to it. The president is due to go to the state of michigan tomorrow. He wants to show off the fact that u. S. Auto companies have reopened some of their production plants as of this week. Hes due to visit a ford plant in ypsilanti, michigan tomorrow. And while theres been a lot of attention today as to whether or not the president will wear a mask on that visit because thats required of everybody who goes into that plant, perhaps more substantively it should be noted that as excited as the president is to basically proclaim the epidemic over and everything must open back up and thats part of the reason for this visit to michigan tomorrow, while hes taking that sort of victory lap, look, the plant is open, ford has already just since monday of this week had to reclose two of the plants that they just reopened because of coronavirus cases among the workers there once they reopened. They had to reclose this week a plant in chicago, and they have had to reclose a plant in dearborn, michigan after reopening. And that sort of thing is happening now in states that are reopening all over and its not only in workplaces. Big workplaces like those auto plants. Its also happening in places like chufrpz too. The Washington Post today profiling two churches, one in georgia, one in houston, texas, that were happy to open back up, everythings fine, this things in the past now, lets Start Holding services again, but now after doing that they have closed their doors once again because families who attended services at the church ended up contracting the virus. Two priests who conducted services contracted the virus. One priest died. Speaking of texas, this was a protest outside a Meat Processing plant last night in dallas. These are former workers from the quality sausage plant in dallas, texas. Also family members of at least one worker of the plant who died from coronavirus. The ft. Worth startelegram covered that protest last night, and posted this today. They have to come in because theyre being called every day, that they got to produce, so that the American Public can have meat on their tables. But yet the American Public has abandoned the immigrant community that is dying to maintain the food supply for america. This one plant in dallas, the quality sausage plant in dallas, is believed to have had three of its workers die from coronavirus and 63 other known cases among workers at the plant. But thats an estimate. Thats just an unofficial count from activists representing the families of people who have died there. There is no official count. Either from the plant, or from dallas county. Or from the state of texas. And apparently, theres no plans to make that Information Available at all. Now, yesterday, this is interesting, the president was asked directly about these ongoing large outbreaks in Meat Processing plants around the country, despite his executive order telling all these plants to reopen. The president responded to that question, with a veritable pupu platter of assorted madeup nonsense about Meat Processing plants. They have had, they had a disproportionately high number of people that had the problem and thats going away, the plants are very, very clean now. Theyre getting to a level where i think we had some a report that theyre cleaner than theyve ever been. Thats a good report. I dont know exactly what that means but they are cleaner than theyve ever been. Thats going away. Thats going away. Theyre cleaner now. Maybe the problem there is that they were dusty before. Had like scuff marks and stuff. But now theyre clean. He says theyre so clean, theres a good report, i dont know exactly what that means, theres a report theyve been cleaner than theyve ever been. I dont know what that means but thats all going away. I mean were getting nye on to three solid months into the thick of this thing in this country, and nearly 100,000 americans have been killed already. And the president is still just kind of feeling around the edges of any specific question, hoping to say words that might in someones mind map on to some portion of the problem as posed in the question to maybe give an impression that he understands anything about the thing he was just asked. Oh, the plants, theyre very clean now. I dont know what that means. But thats all going away. Next question . I mean, i know were used to it now because this is the way he talks, but literally, like three months into this thing he just throws word at anything. Tries to approximate a noun that might have something to do with the real problem he was asked about, and assumes that youll round him up to the nearest he might understand that perception of his comments. I mean its if you were teaching a kindergartner how to answer a basic direct question, you would continue to ask for further tries at an answer before you would let that kindergartner finish that lesson. And its true about the most fundamental fatal things in this crisis that has killed nearly 100,000 people in this country, of which he is the leader. Its just i mean again, i know were used to it, but i will never be that used to it. To the point of the president saying thats going away, about meatpacking plants, i will tell you that there is a sense in which the problem in meatpacking plants appears to be going away since the president ordered them to reopen. And that is that we have since seen republican governors around the country, in states that have meatpacking plants, we have seen those republican governors and their state governments crack down on peoples ability to know about outbreaks in specific meatpacking plants. In nebraska, for example, we have seen republican Governor Pete Ricketts announcing that the state will no longer release information about coronavirus outbreaks in meatpacking plants. Once he started to get . Really big outbreaks in his state and they started really doing some testing, he announced that nobody will be allowed to see those numbers anymore. In Iowa Republican governor kim reynolds applying this bizarre 10 threshold standard where no one including the people who work at the plant, their families, local Public Officials who might want to prepare, say, their hospitals in the event of a large outbreak within their city limits, no, no one in iowa is allowed know if there is an outbreak at any one plant until at least 10 of the entire workforce at that plant is positive. Thats the 10 threshold that Governor Reynolds has set in iowa. So if youre a local official and you want to try to act and prepare while the outbreak at your local Meat Processing plant is still small and so you might still be able to test and track and isolate and contain it under Good Public Health practices, no. Iowas governor says you cant do that. You are not allowed to know what is going on until the outbreak is giant. You have to wait until the outbreak has already infected at least 10 of the people who work there before youre allowed to know that the outbreak is there. And i mean its this is the thing that republican governors are doing now. In arizona, theyve got what appears to be a goodsized outbreak at a jbs Meat Processing plant in tolleson arizona. I think thats how you say it. It is tolleson. Just due west of phoenix, arizona. Neither the plant, the jbs plant, nor the county, maricopa county, nor the state of arizona will tell anyone how many cases there are at that plant, though. The workers are freaking out. The union who represents those workers is freaking out. Theyre asking for help. But even if theyre going to be testing, it is all going to be kept secret. Nobodys allowed to know. Which of course makes it easier for the president to bumble through a 5yearolds answer at the white house, saying well, as far as hes concerned everythings very clean now and its going away, i dont know what that means, but itll be fine. Its easy to say when its going away when the numbers are going away because republican governors wont let anybody see them anymore. But beyond that, beyond this sort of new and newly concerted effort by republican governors to not divulge the bad news from these meatpacking plants, we have also seen from the beginning some of the plants at least, the plants themselves, try to pretend the problem isnt there, the problem isnt that bad, the problem has gone away by just avoiding testing in the first place. And to that end we just obtained a document that i want you to see. I find it very strange. What we have just obtained is this document is a document from greeley, colorado. Greeley, colorado of course is one of the first meatpacking plant outbreaks that we covered. Its one of the first huge meatpack plant outbreaks that came to National Attention at that greeley jbs plant. Theyve had we believe eight workers die in greeley already. This was the plant where they pledged publicly that they would test all of their employees before they reopened the plant. But then they didnt. They just reopened anyway without doing the testing. Weve been trying to figure out why and how that was allowed. Well, as weve been trying to figure that out, look at this document that we just obtained. This document is so strange, i first assumed it was all a misunderstanding. It was like a Threes Company plot. It was a typo. But its apparently real. And its apparently not a typo. And this is what they meant. This is a document from weld county, where the plant is, where that jbs plant is the largest employer, and what weve got here, can we put it up on the screen, this is the form that was sent to jbs, to the plant, from the county Health Department as a screening form for any jbs employees who were going to be tested back when jbs set up its first testing session in greeley, back when they were still saying they were going to test all of their employees. And you can see whats on the screening form there. Employee name. Date of birth. Temperature reading. Taking their temperatures when they were going to screen people to see if they were going to test them. What language the employee speaks. Whether the employee needs an interpreter. Then the screening form says list your symptoms, have you had cough, shortness of breath, fever, body aches, et cetera. And then this is the kind of amazing part. The bottom part of the form there is labeled exposure questions. Do you have a household member who has had fever and or respiratory symptoms . Or one who has been told they have covid19 . Yes or no. Has the person you stand next to on your work line had fever and or respiratory symptoms . Yes or no. Do you ride to work with anybody who has had fever and or respiratory symptoms . Yes or no. Do you eat lunch, have you eaten lunch next to somebody at the plant with fever or respiratory symptoms . Yes or no. But then look at this, on the very bottom, in bold, if the person answers yes to any of the above screening questions, they are not eligible to be tested. Wait a minute. Theyre not eligible to be tested . If youve been exposed to somebody with fever or respiratory symptoms, if youve been working next to somebody with fever or respiratory symptoms, if youve been traveling to work with somebody who has fever or respiratory symptoms, if youve been in the lunchroom at the plant with somebody who has fever or respiratory symptoms, no, you cant be tested . What fresh hell is this . Youre not eligible to be tested at the meatpacking plant if youve potentially been exposed to coronavirus. If youve had any evident exposure, were not going to test you. Yeah, because what might that turn up . What might that test result indicate . We actually called the weld county Health Department after we obtained this document to see if it was a typo. If you answer yes to any of these exposure questions, you cant be tested . You are not eligible for being tested . The county Health Department cheerfully wrote back to us, nope, we understand this is not a typo, thank you. I mean, this means that the local county Health Department in the county where the jbs company is the biggest employer in town, in conjunction with the county they set up a testing protocol for the meatpacking plant workers that ensured that no one would be tested if they had any reason to be tested, if you know what i mean. Well, thats one way to keep your numbers down. But that plant is open. Up and running. Eight employees dead. Already. Still hundreds of known cases in that plant. Even though that was the approach to testing. The county Health Director there in weld county just quit his job without explanation after more than 20 years on the job. The president says these plants, though, its all going fine, its all going away. Very clean now. I dont know what that means, but its fine. Where we are willing to look, we are still finding some of the very same persistent problems we have had in responding to this virus so disastrously as a country from the very beginning. The original problems we had at the outset arent getting better. I mean going back to the official declaration that we were facing a pandemic, Health Workers in the United States have been pleading, they have been standing outside hospitals, and publicly pleading for personal protective equipment, to keep them safe as they cared for Covid Patients. We saw them on twitter, begging, get me ppe, and in newspapers, describing workplaces, that had transformed, basically, into Infectious Disease war zones, where front line Health Workers dealing with Covid Patients were forced to make due with a single mask for days on end, and conditions where having what you need close at hand can make the difference between your own life and death. That was the story from the outset, right . Back in march. And that was the story the following month. In april. Including for one california nurse whose colleague said she was not given an n95 mask at the start of her shift. Didnt have one to give her. So wearing only a thin surgical mask she jumped in to help a patient who had stopped breathing. She herself was exposed to the virus. She died from it. I mean this dangerous shortfall on protective equipment for american Health Workers was the news in march. It was still the news in april. And its still the news tonight. A new poll of Health Care Workers from the Washington Post and ipsos this afternoon, asked Health Workers directly, Health Workers who deal with covid19 patients, about conditions in their hospitals and clinics. They still do not have enough of those n95 masks. And two thirds of the Health Workers polled. Funding surgical masks, the thinner ones that are really not appropriate for protecting you in a health care environment, from patients with active disease, even finding the surgical masks is still a problem for 42 of Health Care Workers who are working with Covid Patients. This poll of Health Workers found persistent notable shortages for hand sanitizer, protective gowns, face shields, cleaning supplies, all the way down to gloves. Still now in may. We had this problem at the very outset. And we have it now. Still. Today. As total known cases in this country are now well above 1. 5 million, and 93,000, almost 94,000 americans have died. Today, a coalition of advocacy groups staged a national day of mourning, a national funeral, to mark the administrations abysmal response to this Public Health catastrophe. And the loss of tens of thousands of american lives because of it. These funerallike protests were held in roughly 20 states today and in washington, d. C. Protesters in d. C. Staged a mock funeral procession in their cars outside Mitch Mcconnells house in washington. Honking their horns. Displaying signs like trump lies, people die. The procession later made its way to lafayette square, which is right across the street from the white house. Demonstrators again laid out body bags within view of the oval office. In denver activists stacked fake body bags outside the office of republican senator cory gardner. You can see his cardboard cutout there at the right to protest his unstinting support for the administration through all these failures. It was the same in new orleans outside the office of republican senator john kennedy. You can see again, the symbolic body bags and the signs, mourning in america. In south lake, texas, outside ft. Worth, protesters set out body bags in the town square there. And the grim reaper was there. And the protests of the rush to reopen, even as texas case numbers and deaths spike. The anger is real. The anger is palpable. The grief for 92,000 americans lost, but also the anger that this has been so screwed up. So horrifically managed. The worst in the world. You can find that anger in your town square among your fellow voters. You can find it among the ranks of Health Workers and scientists. Tonight were going to have with us a former Senior Scientist at the cdc who has had it up to here who is now basically trying to sound the public alarm about what has gone wrong with his old Agency Within this Botched National response. Were going to be speaking with that former cdc scientist coming up. Were also tonight going to be talking with the governor of one of the very hardest hit states in the nation. A governor who also, as a matter of fact, also happens to be getting vetted right now as a potential Vice President ial running mate for Vice President joe biden. That governor joins us next. Big night ahead. Stay with us. You ever wish you werent a motaur . Sure. Sometimes i wish i had legs like you. Yeah, like a regular person. No. Still half bike half man, just the opposite. Oh, so the legs on the bottom and motorcycle on the top . Yeah. Yeah, i could see that. For those who were born to ride, theres progressive. And ask your doctor about biktarvy. 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Comcast business is prepared for times like these. Powered by the nations largest gigspeed network. To help give you the speed, reliability, and security you need. Tools to manage your business from any device, anywhere. And a team of experts here for you 24 7. Weve always believed in the power of working together. Thats why, when every connection counts. You can count on us. Gallup, new mexico is a beautiful part of our country. Its toward the western edge of new mexico. Its about two hours west northwest of albuquerque. Gallup borders the Navajo Nation, which is the largest native american reservation in the United States. The Navajo Nation is huge. It actually spans the territory of three different u. S. States, mostly in new mexico and arizona. Right now, the Navajo Nation has the largest coronavirus outbreak in the whole country. A grim milestone achieved this week. Quote Navajo Nation surpasses new york state for highest covid19 infection rate in the United States. The worst outbreak in the country, within the Navajo Nation has also caused consequences that spill beyond navajo borders. If you look at the last two weeks gallup, new mexico, on the edge of Navajo Nation, has the second highest rate of new cases per capita anywhere in the country. They follow only sioux city, iowa that has a meatpackingdriven outbreak there that just wont quit. Over that same time period in the past two weeks, it has taken more lives in gallup, new mexico than anywhere else in the country. And that is partially a factor of how fast the virus is spaeding near gallup but it may also be partly because of how hard it is to get health care there. The city of gallup has one acute care hospital. Rehoboth Mckinley Christian hospital. The only acute Care Medical Center for more than 100 miles. That hospital has eight intensive care beds, which are all full. Doctors and nurses at that hospital have been protesting and trying to get further help as they have been overwhelmed. Rehoboth has had to start transferring any Covid Patients with severe breathing problems to other facilities because they dont have the facilities there to continue to keep up with the caseload. And as i mentioned there are no advanced Health Care Facilities that are close by. Earlier this month, the governor of new mexico michelle lewan grisham called the spread of the coronavirus in galup, quote, uninhibited. She closed all roads leading into gallup to try to mitigate that uninhibited spread but the problem there is dire. So the governor of new mexico is dealing with the challenges of one of the worst coronavirus outbreaks anywhere in the world. Shes also simultaneously dealing with a sharp increase in the National Scrutiny on her on the heels of news that she right now is being vetted by joe biden and his campaign as a potential Vice President ial running mate on the democratic ticket this year. Joining us now for the interview is governor michelle lewan grisham from the great state of new mexico. Governor, its good to have you here tonight. I have a ton to ask you about. Im glad you made the time. Thank you, rachel. I appreciate the opportunity. Nice to talk with you. Let me just ask you first about the epidemic in your state, some of the information that ive said about gallup and where the crisis has been so difficult there and within the Navajo Nation. Can you just give our viewers a Broad Strokes picture of whats going on with the epidemic in your state and some of those real hot spots that youre still contending with . Yeah, i hope you dont mind, im going to correct actually something about gallup, there are two hospitals in gallup. Theres the Gallup Indian health center, medical center, and theyve got acute care beds and Critical Care sites. There are aftercare sites we developed in gallup and rehoboth. Rehoboth is a private rural hospital that has long been troubled and is now under direct management and support by the state of new mexico, and i feel very confident that the men and women who are on the front lines, providing incredible care, are getting what they need. Theyre amazing. And part of our plan in new mexico all along has been to move patients to hospitals in albuquerque, santa fe, and in areas where youve got much higher percentages to serve the population, in Critical Care, acute care, and icu settings. And so thats always been part of our plan. And youre right, some days we were seeing two patients transferred an hour from the northwestern part of the state. So what is going on . What is going on is the Navajo Nation, and we sounded the alarm to the white house, months ago, about the impact on sovereign nations, lack of testing by Indian Health services which im going to really defend them. The federal government is not giving them what they need, either. And have long underfunded Indian Health. So what do you have . You have intergenerational families living hundreds of miles from food, water, health care services, just the basics, youve got children and elders and working family members, in very tight quarters, which is ripe for having containment issues that you cant get your arms around, and in fact, i want to give a shoutout to the Navajo Nation, both the council and the Navajo Nation president have been good partners and really effective leaders by having some of the strictest stayathome orders and curfews in the country, and were seeing a flattening in gallup, and thats in mckinley county, and in san juan county, as a result, and were seeing the transmission rate finally beginning to decline, but we are not out of the woods in Indian Country around this country, in Indian Country in new mexico, and not in the Navajo Nation either. Because of that unique circumstance with Indian Country in terms of the Indian Health service and the federal responsibility for providing health care, to a certain extent here, what specifically should the federal government be doing to contend with the situation in Navajo Nation that theyre not doing . Obviously theres federal responsibilities here that are unique. There are. And i will give you a couple of examples. So one is, and weve got support admiral wiaki whos from zuni, pueblo also near gallup in new mexico, the leader of ihs, and hes incredible. Hes supporting us to tell the federal government give us the testing supplies. And when i say us, the state. Let us at our state lab do the testing. Because heres what happens. And give us the personnel to do that. We can increase the testing of the Navajo Nation. We can increase the testing in all of our pueblos and apache nations. We can turn those tests around in incredible amounts of time. Which means we can then support directly the Contact Tracing. Heres what they do now. They wait to get supplies. And when those supplies are available, they get them out to the Navajo Nation. Then they have to get those test samples to lab core or another laboratory that theyve got a National Contract with. They compete with all of the other testing in the country. They might get it back in 24 hours. They might it get back in four days. That means no one gets isolated. Nobodys getting Contact Tracing. None of that is happening in a way thats meaningful. Nor have they invested in the right personnel to beef that up. So were doing Contact Tracing. Were doubling the amount of personnel on the ground. We want to just take control with ihs as a partner, of the whole thing. New mexicos done more testing in total than colorado, which has a significantly higher population. So we have capacity to do much more, and its been really hard to disrupt that. And i am confident that gets done immediately, and thats going to make a big difference. Were also going to give cell phones out to everyone we test. Were going to work with Telecommunications Companies to put towers out so we can do Contact Tracing because we can reach people who do not have cell service or internet connections. And probably too much, but last legislative session, that was january, new mexico, even though i have to veto many capital projects, because of the covid19 impacts on the economy, i kept, which were part of our projects, we need broadband, water, and electricity, and Public SafetyEmergency Response investments in the Navajo Nation, and theyre going to get it because were clear as a state we have a responsibility to meet the shortfalls of the federal government. Governor, i also need to ask you about reports that you have been approached by the Biden Campaign to vet you as a potential Vice President ial running mate for the Vice President. I want to ask if you can confirm those reports and tell us anything about what that process has been like. Well, i really appreciate that you literally what happened to me all the time when i was in congress, people would say i was a senator, so i got a boost, reaching out to me, to make sure were on track for an endorsement, im a big joe biden fan, and im doing my part, as the firstever democratic hispanic governor in the country to make sure that were getting out hispanic voters and minority votes across the country. So that speculation, you put into vetting, i dont know if thats an endorsement, rachel, but i appreciate your kind words. We are working on the Campaign Specifics that i should be doing as the chairelect of the dga, and then the rest of my work is to make sure to your point where you have significant issues going on in the state, you need to be focused on getting them addressed. And you know, new mexico was the first state to test asymptomatic individuals. Weve tested 7 of our population. We can do better than that and will. Weve loader our transmission rates. Were meeting our gating criteria. Weve been very slow and steady. But im troubled today, i was troubled yesterday, we need to do everything in our power to disrupt the lack of federal responding and support to protect our sovereign nations in new mexico, and were going to keep fighting to slow the spread, to support the navajo people, to support the president and Vice President of the Navajo Nation, of the council, and were going to get a hold of this virus, and were going to create a system where no one in the federal government can put the Navajo Nation or any sovereign nation in harms way ever again. Michelle lujan grisham, governor of the great state of new mexico. Governor, its great to have you here. Wed love to have you back to talk about this as it peeds. I appreciate you taking the time tonight. You got it, rachel. Thank you very much. All right. Thanks. 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Because nothing should come between two best friends. Feel the clarity, and live claritin clear. Ibut that doesnt mean ayoure in this alone. Were automatically refunding our customers a portion of their personal auto premiums. Were also offering flexible Payment Options for those whove been financially affected by the crisis. We look forward to returning to something that feels a little closer to life as we knew it, but until then you can see how were here to help at libertymutual. Com covid19. [ piano playing ] its titled Straight Talk from excdc for the long slog ahead. And Straight Talk is what they mean. This is about the white house plans to reopen the country and the guidelines they put out around that. Quote, the white house, in obvious desperation as the election looms, rushed out its guidelines for relaxing mitigation efforts and lockdowns. Titled as a political slogan, opening up america again, complete with Campaign Logo bars, the guidelines are banal, quantitatively and subjectively vague, ambiguous, and they shirk any federal responsibility. As any thinking person would have anticipated, opening up america again is now serving as political cover for some states to relax whatever mitigation efforts were in place. Thus, the nation is entering what epidemiologists call a natural experiment. The resulting state and National Epidemic curves will be as volatile as the recent stock market. Governors who open up their states too soon or too broadly may turn out to be pied pipers, leading some constituents into the folkloric river to drown. Quote, cdcs logo was sullied when someone put it on the white house web page and download of the opening up guidelines. Such labeling was defamatory on a document so unlike the thousands of welldefined clearly explained recommendations and guidelines the cdc has published under that logo, often cited and respected worldwide. Straight talk from excdc indeed. People who work at the cdc have started speaking out anonymously now. Telling reporters about the way the agency has been compromised and sidelined and pushed aside, and not really defanged so much as deformed by the Trump Administration over the course of this epidemic. But people who are excdc, who are retired from the agency, can put their name to some of these critiques. Dr. Bruce weniger is a medical epidemiologist retired from cdc, one of the excdc scientists who wrote that article. He joins us next. Stay with us. Ng and distributing more fresh food than anyone. Our drivers helping grocers restock their shelves. How were helping restaurants open popup markets. And encouraging all americans to take out to give back. Adversity came to town. So we looked it in the eye. And it wont be us. That blinks first. Introducing tide power pods with cat nat. That is such a large load, dont the stains sneak through . New tide power pods can clean that. Whole situation. Its like two regular tide pods and then even more power. Even the largest of loads get clean. Its got to be tide. [female vo] restaurants are facing a crisis. And theyre counting on your takeout and delivery orders to make it through. Grubhub. Together we can help save the restaurants we love. We know youre always at univethere for them. X, thats why our advisors are always here for you. Learn more at phoenix. Edu. Because i trust their quality they were the first to have a vitamin verified by usp. An independent organization that sets strict quality and purity standards nature made, the 1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand theres only one Infectious Disease known to infect human beings that has been totally eradicated and that is smallpox. Which was only eradicated in living memory, 40 years ago, after the World Health Organization went on a mission to wipe smallpox off the face of the planet. In part, by deploying smallpox eradication basically s. W. A. T. Teams that went house to house in hardhit areas administering vaccines. They also offered cash to anybody who reported smallpox cases so these teams could do a strippeddown quick version of Contact Tracing to try to find all the last instances of this disease on earth. This is one of those smallpox s. W. A. T. Teams at work in bangladesh in 1975. You can see the posters offering the cash rewards like i just described. And the maps tracking active infections that theyve been able to find. The gentleman you can see in this picture who has the beard is bruce weniger, a ucla med student at the time who was recruited by the World Health Organization to go to the front lines in bangladesh and try to wipe smallpox off the face of the earth. He was later recruited by the cdc and sent to work with refugees in somalia. Bruce weniger over time would become the cdcs vaccine guru and a particular expert on the spread of hiv and aids across the continent of asia. Thats weni gechlt r there with president bill clinton who appointed him to the president ial Advisory Committee on hiv and aids in 1995. So when dr. Bruce weniger who spent 30 years fighting deadly viruses under the banner of the cdc, when this man in particular fires off a public rocket aimed squarely at the cdc over their handling of this current pandemic and what they have not done that they should have been expected to do, well, when it comes from him you ought to sit up and listen. Joining us now is dr. Bruce weniger, a medical epidemiologi epidemiologist, 30year veteran of the cdc, hes affiliated with Emory University as well as shanghai university. Dr. Weniger, its an honor to have you with us tonight. Thank you for making time. Well, thank you for having me here and also for your coverage of whats happening to the cdc, Whose Mission my coauthor on the essay, dr. Oh, and i have been very proud to serve for our entire careers. I must correct you, the rocket, as you termed it, was not aimed at the cdc, it was aimed for the cdc. Well, to that point, let me just ask you as somebody who has been in the middle of the cdcs response to the most what seems like the most difficult things on earth before we got here. What do you think is the most important thing that the cdc could be doing and should be doing that it isnt in this crisis . Well, basically, taking the forefront on the scientific Public Health efforts to control the pandemic in this country, which has been their role for ebola, the Ebola Outbreak in africa because what happens anywhere in the world can quickly come to this country and they have been doing this for roughly 70, 75 years and many other people have already spoken publicly about the proper role for cdc including our wonderful former director dr. Tom frieden. In terms of whats been going wrong with the cdc, one of the things that weve reported here and that were still trying to get our arms around is what appears to be political pressure from outside the cdc from the white house from other parts of the administration to soften their scientific language, to soften their assessments about not only whats wrong but what needs to be done and it appears that the cdc has been acceding to that pressure. Is this something im just being naive to be disappoint bd or you expect people in cdc to be squawking more about if they are getting that pressure . No, i think you have it correct that there is political interference that i dont think weve ever seen before. The comments that you quoted came on october on may 3rd, actually, and they were based on the initial opening up america guidelines. And just today i finally was able to track down the new 60page version of those guidelines that are officially promulgated. And it was a real long and difficult slog to get through them. And theyre like nothing ive ever seen come out of the cdc. Theyre very complicated. Their recommendations you would probably need an attorney with 20 Years Experience arguing cases before Appellate Courts to explain the inconsistencies from one page to another on these recommendations. Some of the recommendations have exceptions and then there are often exceptions to the exceptions. This is just a good example and im sure many people still at cdc are embarrassed to even look at this document. Is there anything we the public could do to support the scientists and the science at cdc especially against the kind of political pressure that may be resulting may be causing these compromises that youre seeing . To use the one word that president obama used recently, vote. Dr. Bruce weniger, medical epidemiologist who worked at the cdc for 30 years, now speaking out about the shortcomings of that agencys response. Dr. Weniger, thank you for making time to be here tonight and thank you for your service. Youre welcome. Thank you. All right. Well be right back. Stay with us. Ight back. Stay with us and ask your doctor about biktarvy. Biktarvy is a complete, onepill, onceaday treatment used for hiv in certain adults. Its not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights hiv to help you get to and stay undetectable. Thats when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. Research shows people who take hiv treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit hiv through sex. Serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. Rare, lifethreatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. Do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. Tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. If you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. Common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. If youre living with hiv, keep loving who you are. And ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. If youre living with hiv, keep loving who you are. When you think of a bank, you think of people in a place. 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Next item corner offices for everyone. Just have to make more corners in this building. Chad . Your wireless your rules. Only with Xfinity Mobile. Now thats simple easy awesome. Switch and save up to 400 a year on your wireless bill. Plus get 200 off a new Samsung Galaxy s20 ultra. As we wrap up tonight, one quick piece of breaking news. We led the show last night with news that the Trump Administration had planned to end the federal deployment of National Guard troops in the United States to fight the coronavirus epidemic in june, deployment of all of those National Guardsmen and women because if they served until day 90, that would render all of those National Guardsmen and women eligible for some retirement and education benefits that President Trump didnt want them to get. That was one of the lead stories last night. Politico. Com just reporting that under pressure the Trump Administration is weighing extending the National Guard deployments. Oh, yeah. When people find out what youre doing, sometimes they pressure you about it. Especially when its something that evil. All right. That does it for us tonight. Well see you again tomorrow. Now its time for the last word with lawrence odonnell. Good evening. Rachel, day 89. Whats some Veterans Benefits . Veterans benefits have changed peoples lives. It couldnt be more im