Transcripts For MSNBCW The Rachel Maddow Show 20200221

Briefed the Intelligence Committee that russia right now is interfering again in our elections, interfering in the 2020 election to try to reelect President Trump. The officials specifically told the Intelligence Committee last week something about this influence effort that we have not heard before, which is that russias intention this time around is not only to interfere in the general election to try to benefit president Trumps Campaign but also to interfere in the democratic primaries as well. Now this is new information, this is specific, this is not just like a, you know, a general warning about the general intent of russia, the stuff that we can surmise from their past behavior and their perceived intentions. Sometimes we do get these generic warnings. Everybody should be vigilant, expected to happen again. This is specific information from multiple u. S. Intelligence agencies conveyed behind closed doors to the Intelligence Committee. It is on. Russia is running an op to try to help reelect donald trump in 2020. According to the intelligence agencies it is underway, and for the first time we are hearing that this interference this time around will include trying to target or somehow get inside the democratic primary process as well. Now, this warning was reportedly issued by the top official in the office of the director of National Intelligence who since last summer has been officially in charge of overseeing all u. S. Intelligence efforts to try to monitor and thwart Foreign Countries efforts at attacking our democracy the way russia did on trumps behalf in 2016, in which apparently they are working on a new and improved effort for this next election as well. You know, so deep breath. Its not exactly deja vu. Its more like that slow motion feeling you get when youre sliding around on the ice and you know youre going to crash but it doesnt feel like theres much you can do about it. Here we go again. And looking at these headlines will had about this news tonight its kind of a getreal moment. It is a bit of a rallying cry. This is an all hands on deck moment for our democracy. Here we are again four years later. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice in the immortal words of george w. Bush, fool me twice, cant get fooled again. So this briefing to the Intelligence Committee in the house about russian interference in the 2020 election to try to reelect donald trump and their intent to interfere in the democratic primary to try to achieve that same result. This briefing to the Intelligence Committee was apparently a week ago today. It was last thursday. The reason we learned about it in new reports tonight from the Washington Post and the New York Times is because of what the response was inside the Trump Administration when they learned that briefing had been delivered to congress. In the white house this news was apparently not greeted with a deep breath with a sentiment that we all need to pull together to make sure this doesnt happen to our country again. What we have learned tonight in both the Washington Post and the New York Times is that instead of that kind of response from the white house, the real response from this president and the people in the white house who let him do things is that they decided that they should fire the director of National Intelligence. Because, after all, it was somebody working in his office who gave that briefing to condition res about what russia is doing to try to benefit President Trumps reelection. Now, the official who gave this briefing didnt make up this information about what russia is doing. The briefing was not, like, an oped. As spelled out in the New York Times tonight, the intelligence official who briefed the committee on this just last week, that person was the messenger delivering the, quote, conclusions of multiple intelligence agencies. And so i repeat, it is the conclusion of multiple u. S. Intelligence agencies that the Russian Federation is once again trying to interfere in our 2020 election, our president ial election again to try to elect donald trump. And new twist, they plan on trying to interfere in the democratic primary to achieve that aim as well. This is what the intelligence agencies have concluded. This is what they have briefed to congress and so naturally the president has concluded that well need someone new to run the intelligence agencies then. So if there is information like this, the intelligence agencies, what, sit on it, keep it from congress . This is just astonishing its not astonishing that russia is trying to interfere in the next election because they like what they got from their effort four years ago. Thats not astonishing. I think we were all waiting to hear this, right . Russias behavior is something that should be expected even if the contours of it are all going to be new. What is astonishing is that the white house reaction to learning that information from the intelligence agencies is that somebody new should be running the intelligence agencies, that the Intelligence Agency certainly shouldnt be briefing this information about russias behavior to congress. And this is still a developing story tonight. Tonight former cia director john brennan just said this. Quote, we are now in a fullblown National Security crisis. By trying to prevent the flow of intelligence to congress, trump is abetting a russian covert operation to keep him in office for moscows interests, not americas. We will have more on this tonight including an interview tonight with an official who served in a very senior capacity in the office of the director of National Intelligence. Weve got that all coming up. But as we steam ahead toward this next National Security disaster in the era of trump, we are of course still contending with the effects of the last National Security disaster of exactly this kind in the era of trump. Today the president s longest serving political adviser was sentenced to more than three years in federal prison for his role in 2016 in trying to connect Donald Trumps 2016 president ial campaign with the entity that was releasing the materials that Russian Military intelligence had hacked and stolen to help trump beat hillary clinton. Well, we just moments before we got on the air just got the transcript of the proceedings in which roger stone was sentenced today. And you really should hear this. There are no cameras in federal courts. In some federal courts including the supreme court, there are sometimes audio recordings that are made of Court Proceedings and then released to the public but usually not. Usually and for todays proceedings the only record that were allowed to get is a written transcript like this. But we do have this. And in a case like todays with this roger stone sentencing, this is really something. Let me read to you a little bit from what the judge said at todays sentencing. Quote, the defendant lied about a matter of Great National and international significance. This is not campaign hijinx. This is not just roger being roger. He lied to our elected representatives. The sentence is not just about punishing him but also about deterring others and upholding the law. It has to send the message that witnesses do not get to decide for themselves whether congress is entitled to the facts based on what they think about the topic being investigated or who they fear could be embarrassed by the topic being investigated. The judge says, quote, there was nothing unfair, phony, or disgraceful about the investigation or the prosecution. The House Committee, which stone lied to, which at the time stone testified was under the control of the republican majority. The senate Intelligence Committee which remains under the control of the republican majority, the special counsel who was appointed by and serving under the supervision of the acting attorney general of this administration and the current Inspector General of the Current Department of justice, all investigated the circumstances surrounding the 2016 election. And all have concluded like the multiple agencies charged with protecting the United States National Security that the fact that there was a russian attempt to interfere in the election was beyond debate. Its a matter of enormous public concern. And therefore the House Committee, the judge says, the House Committee had legitimate grounds, indeed a duty to inquire how materials belonging to the Democratic National committee ended up in the hands of wikileaks and whether russia played any role in that. Indeed, a duty to inquire whether there was any involvement, encouragement, collaboration on the part of the trump campaign. The legitimacy of the inquiry is an entirely separate question from whether anyone found enough evidence to draw a conclusion at the end of the day. Roger stone, the defendant, took it upon himself to lie to impede, to obstruct, before the investigation was complete. And he endeavored to influence the result. How could the committee do its job and reach the correct conclusion under those circumstances . What did the defense say to the jury on his behalf . They said so what, so what . Of all the circumstances in this case that may be the most pernicious. The judge says, quote, the truth still exists, the truth still matters. Roger stones insistence that it doesnt, his belligerence, his pride in his own lies are a threat to our most fundamental institutions to the very foundation of our democracy. And if it goes unpunished it will not be a victory for one party or another. Everyone loses because everyone depends on the representatives they elect to make the right decisions on a myriad of issues, many of which are politically charged but many of which arent and they must make those decisions based on the facts. Everyone depends on our elected representatives to protect our elections from foreign interference based on the facts. No one knows where the threat is going to come from next time or whose side they are going to be on. And for that reason the dismay and disgust at the defendants blij rinse should transcend parties to defend his actions as just business as usual in our polarized climate should transcend party. The dismay and the disgust with any attempts to interfere with the efforts of prosecutors and members of the judiciary to fulfill their duty should transcend party. Sure, the defense is free to say so what, who cares. But i will say this. Congress cared, the United States department of justice and the United States Attorneys Office for the district of columbia that is prosecuting this case cared. The jurors who served with integrity under difficult circumstances cared. The American People cared. And i care. Says Amy Berman Jackson who is sentencing roger stone in a climate that cant be denied and that she didnt deny today. In a climate in which the president and much of the trump supportive conservative media and Many Republican members of congress have participated in, have created this climate in which not only roger stone has been defended and the prosecution has been attacked but the judge has been attacked. The department of justice has been attacked for bringing this prosecution. And the president has gone so far as to personally attack individual members of the jury for having had the temerity to convict roger stone. Those were remarks today from judge jackson today in sentencing stone for lying to congress, obstructing the investigation, and threatening a witness who could have exposed his lies and obstruction. This case of course also engendered a true crisis in the u. S. Justice system when more than as more than 2,000 former Justice Department officials have called on attorney general bill barr to resign after the president criticized prosecutors for the sentence they recommended in roger stones case and attorney general barr within hours of that public criticism intervened at the u. S. Attorneys office to lessen that recommendation. The resulting scandal has led to reporting on a number of other cases related to President Trump in which we now know attorney general bill barr has intervened personally to try to swing things in the president s direction. Well, today in court judge jackson took that on, took on that late swerve in this case, took it on directly including the part of this that is lying there in full sight but has received, i think, less attention in this crisis than it deserves, which is that as the president has demanded interference in this case and the attorney general has said yes, sir, you want me to jump, how high . As the president has demanded interference in this case and the attorney general has followed through on that. It has sort of gone without much mention that its not just the president s friend here whos getting this intervention. This is a case where the president is intervening to help himself because the person who benefitted from what wronger stone did, the person who roger stones crimes were designed tobrecht was the president. So when the president is trying to intervene in stones case to make sure he doesnt get in trouble, he is trying to protect someone who broke the law and committed multiple felonies in order to cover up the president s behavior. Judge jackson addressed that head on today. Quote, stone revealed his own motivation to shield the president from evidence that could reflect badly on him. On december 1st, 2017 stone testified that he texted to randy if you testify you are a fool. Because of trump i could never get away with asserting my fifth amendment rights, but you can. Stone knew that someone would view it as incriminating if he asserted his right to testify and say nothing. So he lied instead and he tried to make sure that his lie was not exposed. He understood full well that it could reflect badly on the president if someone learned that he had exchanged emails about what Julian Assange at wikileaks was about to do. Or that there were emails between himself and steve bannon and rick gates and Paul Manafort as he reported on all of this to the trump campaign. Stones effort to obstruct the investigation was deliberate and planned. It was not one isolated incident. It was conducted over a considerable period of time. Stone lied and sought to impede production of information to whom, not to some secret antitru antitrump kabbal but to both parties who were confronted with a matter of Grave National importance. He was not convicted and is not being or for his support of the president s campaign or his policies. Stone was not prosecuted for standing up for the president. He was prosecuted for covering up for the president. Quote, this case also exemplifies why it is that this system, for good reason, demands that the responsibility falls to someone neutral, someone whose job may involve issuing opinions in favor of and against the same administration in the course of a week, and not someone who has a longstanding friendship with the defendant, not someone whose political career was aided by the defendant, and surely not someone who has personal involvement in the events underlying the case. The court cannot be influenced by those comments. Shes referring here to the president s comments. The court cannot be influenced by those comments. They were entirely inappropriate. But i will not hold them against the defendant either. The judge says, quote, i cannot and will not sentence mr. Stone for the behavior of those he supports. Sentencing is personal and it is based on the evidence. Roger stone will not be sentenced for who his friends are or for who his enemies are. He is not going to be sentenced for his reputation or his personality or his work. The recor doesnt begin to enable me to figure out which supposed dirty tricks he actually committed and which he actually just took credit for. It doesnt matter. The touch stone in this case is the offense. What the judge described today as unprecedented situation in which the president demanded intervention in this case for protect roger stone and the attorney general within hours followed through and threw out the prosecutors sentencing recommendation, and insisted instead on the lighter sentencing recommendation that the president had insisted on, with the trial team all the prosecutors on the trial team quitting in protest including one quitting the government all together. The judge described that today as an unprecedented thing but did not hide from the fact that this wasnt just about attorney general william barr wading into the case. It was the president trying to intervene in this sentencing. The judge today holding the line and saying that it was wildly inappropriate for the president to do that. It is right in our system of justice that somebody involved in the underlying matter of this case, the president , should not be involved in sentencing the person who was convicted for those crimes. But the judge also saying, but you know what, mr. Stone, you will not be held to account, your sentence will not be made worse because of the wildly inappropriate behavior of the president who is acting on your behalf. Instead i will consider your fate purely on the basis of the crimes you have committed. In other words, return to regular order. While not pretending that anything that has happened here is okay. The behavior of the attorney general, the behavior of the president , wildly inappropriate but this judge will do things the way they are supposed to be done within the four corners of the law and in a transparent manner without fear or favor. Remarkable allocution today from the judge. But i think the real surprise here is that the trial team all quit, right . The four prosecutors who were working on this case all quit the case. The u. S. Attorneys office had to put somebody up in court today to explain what was going on. And the shock to me in this sentencing today and its kind of a pleasant surprise in terms of the crisis that we have been through over the last week is that the person who stood up from the u. S. Attorneys office today completely abandoned that intervention, completely abandoned this intervention that the president demanded that attorney general bill barr had made in this case. The gentleman who stood up from the u. S. Attorneys office today who had to explain to the judge what happened here apologized for it and absolutely rejected and rebutted everything the president and bill barr did. Thats next. All the breaks that i can get. At liberty butchumal cut. Liberty biberty cut. Well dub it. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. whistling if youre living with hiv, and ask your doctor about biktarvy. Biktarvy is a complete, onepill, onceaday treatment used for hiv in certain adults. Its not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights hiv to help you get to and stay undetectable. Thats when the amount of virus is so low it cant be measured by a lab test. Research shows people who take hiv treatment every day and get to and stay undetectabe can no longer transmit hiv through sex. Serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. Rare, lifethreatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. Do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. Tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. If you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. Common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. If youre living with hiv, keep loving who you are. And ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. [wood rolling] alexios, add toilet paper to the shopping list. [chiseling on stone] oh, and camel milk. And a chicken. And moisturizer. Alexa thanks, guys. Ill take it from here. Okay. At the sentencing today for the president s longtime adviser roger stone, the fate of mr. Stone was obviously in question. Hes been convicted on seven felonies. He ended up getting sentenced to 40 months in federal prison, just under three and a half years in prison. But the fate of the Justice Department and the rule of law was a little bit in question too. How would the court deal today with the crisis around this case . The president publicly demanding that the sentencing recommendation from prosecutors should be thrown out, that roger stone is being treated unfairly and that he shouldnt get any prison time . The attorney general then apparently acceding to that request and getting himself into that case personally overruling the prosecutors who had brought the case to instead ask for leniency for the president s friend . All four prosecutors kw itthis case in protest when bill barr did that. Today is the day that were with going to get some sort of reckoning for that. How is the court going to handle it . How is the u. S. Attorneys office, the Prosecutors Office that just got rolled here, right, that got overruled by the attorney general and all their prosecutors quit in response. How is that office going to deal with that standing in front of the judge today having to explain what happened and how theyve dealt with what bill barr did to their case which he came in and took over. Well, i really didnt know heading into the proceeding, but i did not think it would go like this. This is a conversation at the hearing today between john crabb who is the prosecutor belatedly installed in isafter the trial team all quit. Its a conversation between mr. Crabb and the judge. Your honor, i want to apologize to the court for the confusion that the government has caused with respect to this sentencing and the difficulties surrounding that. I want to make clear that the court that this confusion was not caused by the original trial team. The original trial team had authorized. The trial team wrote it, m mr. Crabb, yes, your honor. The judge, but someone higher up than them had to approve it. Correct, your honor. The judge, does that include you . Mr. Crabb, i was part of the process. Did it go all the way to the u. S. Attorney . Yes, the u. S. Attorney reviewed it, your honor. The judge, did he approve it . Mr. Crabb. And did the u. S. Attorneys office for the district of columbia have to get approval . I know that there was consultation between the u. S. Attorneys office and the main justice, the judge. Did they receive the approval from main justice before they filed it . Mr. Crabb. No, your honor, my understanding is based on what the attorney general stated is there was a miscommunication between the attorney general and the u. S. Attorney as to the authorization and the expectations that the attorney general had. The judge, but it was approved by everyone whose name was on it including the u. S. Attorney, mr. Crabb, yes, your honor. The judge, can you elaborate . Do you have any personal knowledge about what the nature of that miscommunication was . Mr. Crabb, no, your honor, i dont. The judge, youre not suggesting now that anything that was in the first filing about the nature of the offenses or the calculation of the guidelines or the evidence in the case was incorrect, are you . Mr. Crabb, no, im not, your honor. The other point i would like briefly to address is i would like to state and i would like to emphasis this that the original sentencing memorandum filed by the trial team was done in good faith. Reasonable minds can differ as to what an appropriate sentence may be. But as the court has alluded to earlier in this proceeding, its generally the policy of the United States department of justice to request guideline sentences. The judge, well, its not just a question of whether it was good faith. It was fully consistent with current Justice Department policy. Isnt that true . Yes. The current policy of this department of justice is to charge and prosecute the most serious offense available in order to get the highest level guideline. Isnt that correct . Mr. Crabb, thats the general policy, your honor. And i have been told by assistants standing before me that they arent even allowed to recommend or agree to a sentence below the guideline range without supervisory approval in your office. Is that correct . Thats correct, your honor. The judge says, all right, continue. Thank you, your honor. The other point i would like to briefly address, your honor, is the department of justice and United States Attorneys Office is committed to enforcing the law without fear, favor, or political influence. This prosecution was and this prosecution is righteous. The defendant, mr. Stone, was found guilty by a jury of his peers of committing serious crimes. We believe that based on those crimes of conviction, the court should impose a substantial period of incarceration. The judge, all right. Now with respect to the second filing, your name is on that and youre the one that signed it, physically signed it. So does that mean that you wrote it . Mr. Crabb, your honor, im not at liberty to discuss the internal deliberations. But the courts right, i did sign that document and submitted it. The judge, well, were you directed to write it by someone else . Mr. Crabb, your honor, i apologize. I cannot engage in these discussions of internal deliberations. The judge, all right, is there anything else you want to tell me about why i should impose a substantial period of incarceration in this case . Nothing more than that reiterate that this is a righteous prosecution and the offenses are serious. Mr. Crabb, your honor, the last point i would like to make is that under the unique facts and circumstances presented in this matter this is amazing. He says, quote, it is particularly appropriate for the government to defer to the court with respect to what the specific sentence would be in this case. We understand that has happened in all sentencings that are adjudicated in this courthouse that the court will consider the entire record in this matter. And most importantly that the court will rely on its own sound judgment and experience. To add to that, your honor, in this courts record a thoughtful analysis and fair sentences imposed in those cases, the government has the utmost confidence that we defer to the court. We have confidence that the court will impose a just and fair sentence in this matter. So after all of this, after the worst rule of law crisis in an administration and in a presidency that is a walking, breathing rule of law crisis, after the president denounces this prosecution as a witch hunt, the president demands that the prosecutors are somehow criminal themselves for recommending a strong prison sentence for roger stone in this case, after the president attacks the jury in this case and attacks the judge in this case, after william barr hears that public criticism from the president and intervenes and rescinds the sentencing recommendation from the prosecutors running this case and instead says, no, no, no, i will insist that instead we have a revised sentencing recommendation that says roger stone should get off. After all of that the deputy head of the Criminal Division and the u. S. Attorneys office and the district of columbia, when john crabb has to stand up in front of the judge and explain and justify what has just happened, he basically says, you know what, your honor, everything that you have heard from the president of the United States in this case we disavow. And everything that william barr did and everything that william barr made us write in that second memorandum that, yes, i signed but i dont want to talk about it, everything in that we disavow. This prosecution was righteous. Stone ought to go to jail. And, your honor, youre a good judge and we trust you to do whats right. I am glad there are not cameras in courts for a million reasons. Today i am particularly glad, because today someone in a position of authority in that u. S. Attorneys office that has been absolutely rolled by this president and by this attorney general, somebody in that u. S. Attorneys office stood up and said no, not before a judge, i cant do it. Just incredible. All right. 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Your doctor will monitor your blood sugar before you start and during treatment and may monitor more often if you have a history of type 2 diabetes. Before starting, tell your doctor if you have a history of diabetes, skin reactions. Are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. Common side effects include rash, nausea, tiredness and weakness, decreased appetite, mouth sores, vomiting, weight loss, hair loss, and changes in certain blood tests. If youve progressed on hormone therapy, and have a pik3ca mutation. Ask your doctor about piqray. Doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacistrecommendeding . Memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. At bayer, were into the golden years. With better heart treatments, advanced brain disease research, and better ways to age gracefully. At bayer, this is why we science. Joining us now is donald ayer. He served as Deputy Attorney general in the United States department of justice under president george h. W. Bush. I really appreciate you making time to be here today. Thank you. Thank you. Its great to be here. So you published an oped piece at the atlantic this week that captured the attention of the nation. It was titled barr must resign. And it ended with a very striking sort of call to rm as. Bill barrs america is not a place that anyone including trump voters to want to go. We need a Public Uprising demanding that bill barr resign immediately or failing that be impeached. This has been a remarkable crisis that weve been through over the course of this past week as mr. Barrs interventions have come to light. I want to ask if you feel any better today than you have over the past few days with what happened today in the roger stone sentencing in washington. Well, i feel very good, as youve laid out in great detail. I feel very good about the way the judge handled the situation. I feel very bad about the situation that she was put in, the court was put in, the country was put in. And i guess what i feel is that perhaps there is some indication of a slight step back, but i really dont think its terribly significant because i think what is going on here is sort of an effort to fall back and regroup rather than any educational process of the attorney general. The article i wrote really talks about barrs believes and behavior over an extended period of time, primarily the period hes been an attorney general in the last year. Literally its been one year since he took over. And also going back to ideas we knew he had before he came, which clearly indicated, and indeed ive known of his work pretty well back 30 years ago, and it also had these very strong inclinations to pursue for some reason i think he believes that america should have a president who is virtually an autocrat. And he has worked throughout his career as hes been in government to work toward that. And the difficult problem were in is that he has had the unholy alliance with President Trump for the last year in order to advance it. And so there are a whole array of things that he has done. Peoples attention has been drawn the last ten days or so by these intrusions that you recited, the stone sentencing debacle that youve laid out but also the interference in the flynn case, also the appointment of some group of worthies that barr apparently trusts and wants to see oversee the handling of an array of cases we dont even know quite what they are. But presumably they are sensitive cases of interest to the president. So, i think to some degree hes sort of rolled back a little. Of course he made his comment about the president tweeting and how hes very disturbed by it. And i had some people say to me isnt that great hes resisting the president . And my reaction was, no, its not great at all. Hes really just saying, you know, dont say you like what im doing or i wont be able to get away with putting the fix in. And so i think theres a whole array of things that hes doing and the disturbing thing is hes had an enormous amount of success in a whole array of areas. I can run through it if you like, or we can talk about parts of it. Let me ask you about what we should be looking for in the Justice Department if the threat is as grave as you say. And i tend to agree with you on that. We do see mr. Barr intervening in the stone case, in the flynn case. Its been reported in the erik prince case. It appears that hes intervening and set up some sort of structure about what might be a Rudy Giuliani case. He mentioned theres other cases that are not yet public. Would you expect the line supervisors in those cases that have essentially been hijacked by this process. Would you expect Justice Department personnel to be either alerting the courts or sounding some sort of public alarm or doing something other than what theyre doing to try to preserve the integrity of those cases . Well, the letter that was issued about a week ago by i think 2,200 or so former prosecutors of whom i was one, indicated, a, that barr needs to resign for sure and then said, you know, if its unlikely that hes going to do that, then the folks in the department need to step up and be the front line of defense against these improprietyries. So the idea that they would in fact report improprieties and be a watchdog of it is a hope and a reasonable expectation. Because the people in the department are incredibly dedicated. I am hesitant myself its something i did myself. But its not something i would say that everybody is obligated to quit when something happens that they themselves think is wrong. I think thats a personal thing and i think those choices are difficult, and the situations all vary. I think, frankly, what i would like to see. This is not all the problem of the lawyers in the Justice Department. Theyre the ones that have to deal with it. Theyre the ones that have to cope with it daytoday. Its the problem of the American People. What bill barr is doing by his systematic behavior, you know, some of the things include the whitewashing of the Mueller Report and his summary rejection of the key conclusion in the i. G. Investigation of the russian interference investigation itself where the i. G. Said, you know, that they did it. Certainly the i. G. Found misconduct by agents with regard to the submission of certain warrants. But the key conclusion was that there was ample factual basis for that investigation and the oversight of it was conducted by people in a proper way, and they werent biased at all. Well, immediately when that came out, bill barr categorically and publicly rejected that conclusion as one he disagreed with. But the less familiar conduct that is in some ways more sinister because it is less known is the whole pattern of handling the departments business in a way that undercuts the checks and balances of our system that are built right into the constitution. People are i think pretty familiar with the stonewalling resistance to request information from the hill in a whole array of areas including related to the impeachment issues. But also the president s tax returns. Also, you know, the olc opinion that said when the i. G. For the Intelligence Community submitted the whistleblower report relating to the ukraine conversation, the office of Legal Counsel said you dont need to give that to capitol hill, its not a matter of urgent concern. Well, this sort of nonsense that theyve perpetrated, the effect of it essentially is to undermine all of the checks and balances within the government on the president. And the goal that bill barr has is one that we knew he had before he got there, and it was actually ventilated at his hearing by testimony by a professor named neal kinkoff. The memo that he submitted in june of 2018 when he was apparently wanting to be considered for the job. And in that memo he said, um, the president is the executive branch, and those powers of the executive branch are indivisible. So the president has undivided power to oversee and control all the work of the Justice Department, including the criminal investigations. And then just in case we werent clear what bill barr meant, he went on to say and Neither Congress nor anyone else to deny the president the power to supervise or even terminate an investigation of himself. So, i said in that article that bill barr is unamerican and thats why he needs to resign. He is unamerican because this country is predicated probably above all else on the idea that we live in a democracy and no person is above the law. And he believes in a structure of government for reasons again i cant fathom, but he does believe in it where the president is above the law and the president he would now like to put above the law is donald trump. So thats the problem were dealing with. And i do think these recent events are shocking, but theyre only the culmination of other events that are just about as shocking. Donald ayer, former Deputy Attorney general, thank you so much for being with us tonight, sir. Its an honor to have you here. Thanks for having me. Much more to get to. Stay with us. In america we all count. No matter where we call home, how we worship, or who we love. And the 2020 census is how that great promise is kept. Because this is the count that informs where hundreds of billions in funding will go each year for things like education, healthcare, and programs that touch us all. Shape your future. Start here. Learn more at 2020census. Gov doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacistrecommendeding . Memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Try to win by attacking, now, we know the trump strategy distorting, dividing. Mr. President it. Wont. Work. Newspapers report bloomberg is the democrat trump fears most. As president , universal healthcare that lets people keep their coverage if they like it. A record on job creation. A doable plan to combat climate change. I led a complex, diverse city through 911 and i have common sense plans to move america away from chaos to progress im Mike Bloomberg and i approve this message. Fred would do anything for his daughter get in fred even if it means being the back half of a unicorn. Fear not fred the front half washed his shirt with gain detergent. Thats the scent that puts the giddy in giddy up ahhh. The irresistible scent of gain. For a scent with even more giddy up, try gain scent blast in detergent, fabric softener and scent beads. Its an honor to tell you that [ applause ] thank you. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. I love you only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. I want to bring into the conversation now robert lit. He used to work at the office of the director of National Intelligence under president obama. He was general counsel in that office. Thank you very much for joining us. I really appreciate it. Thanks. I wish i didnt have to be here. [ laughter ] well, youre here on a night that is remarkable news. We learned yesterday that the president had moved to install someone surprising as the new acting director of National Intelligence. A man named rick grenell who has no intelligence experience at all, has never had an intelligence related job. We then learned tonight in the New York Times that the president appears to have decided to get rid of the existing director of National Intelligence because he was very angered that there was a briefing by someone in his office last week to congress that russia is trying to interfere in the 2020 election to again benefit President Trump. It seems like thats what caused the quick move to install rick grenell in this job and to oust the existing director. Just have to ask your topline reaction to that tonight. Well, i think this is all very troubling. There is a third story as well that just broke late this evening, which is that the number two at the office of director of National Intelligence, a career cia officer whos very well respected has been asked to go back and instead they have moved in a former aide to devon nunes who was best known for traipsing around the country, around the world trying to undermine the conclusion of the Intelligence Community about the russia investigation. So i think that number one you have a man who is utterly unqualified to be the director of National Intelligence. The statute that created the position says that the director of National Intelligence should be somebody with extensive National Security expertise. Now, hes only going in as acting so he doesnt need to meet that qualification, but his principal qualification appears to be political loyalty to the president , and that is very dangerous in at least two respects. The first one and the New York Times story about the briefing of the Intelligence Committee demonstrates this. The purpose of the Intelligence Community is to generate factual, accurate, unbiased information so that policy makers can make decisions in the national interest. And you have a real risk that somebody who views himself as so completely aligned with the president and so completely willing to defend the president is not going to be willing to tell the president or the cabinet information tat the president doesnt want to hear, thus undercutting the utility of the Intelligence Community. The other risk of course is you have a president thats announced without any basis that he thinks president obama weaponized the Intelligence Community against him. You have a president whos already indicated hes willing to weaponize Law Enforcement against his political opponents, and theres a real risk to having a coatary of loyalists at the head of the Intelligence Committee is going to embolden him to use the resources of the Intelligence Community to undercut his opponents. So i think this is very troubling. I want to ask you about the worstcase scenario, what we sort of layman and observers should know about the risk you described there and also what this means in terms of what congress is going to learn about what the Intelligence Community is doing. Well have to take a quick break, but well be right back after this. Everyone said i was crazy. So fifteen years ago, i got my first subaru and i did it anyway. For more than five hundred thousand miles, my outback always got me there. So when it was time, of course i got a new one. Because my kids still need me. And i need them. vo welcome to the allnew subaru outback. 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Avoid grapefruit during treatment. ask your doctor about living longer with kisqali. our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition. For strength and energy whoohoo greattasting ensure. With nine grams of protein and twentyseven vitamins and minerals. Ensure, for strength and energy. Back with us is robert litt, former general counsel in the office of director of National Intelligence. Thank you again. With this news tonight at the president has acted suddenly to fire the National Intelligence director and his Principle Deputy and replace those two positions with two very, very highly partisan figures who dont have intelligence experience at all, you were talking about before the break the threat hthat the president may see the Intelligence Community as something he can weaponize to his own political advantage . How can the president do gnat . What would it look like . Well, you know, the Intelligence Community has extraordinary capabilities to conduct surveillance, to collect information, which is not supposed to be directed at americans. And indeed in the russia investigation they were very careful to focus the attention of the Intelligence Community on what the russians were doing, not what americans were doing. It was up to the fbi to conduct any investigations of americans. The president believes apparently that all of the all the agencies of the executive branch are there to serve him personally. And there is a risk that he will ask to have some of these tal. Some of these capabilities directed against his political opponents, that he will, for example, try to use the intelligence sources and activities to see if he can dig up dirt on joe biden in connection with ukraine or anything else out there. I think that is a real risk that with politicized leadership in the Intelligence Community, that there wont be sir, i wish we had more time to spend talking to you about this very serious situation tonight. I hope youll come back in the next few days. I hope we didnt have talk about it at all, rachel. I appreciate it. Well be right back. whistling whistling they get that no two people are alike and customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. What do you think . I dont see it. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. That is going to do it for us tonight. I do want to end with a special shout out to all the Court Reporters out there. It is really hard to get detailed Perfect Court transcripts turned around same day so that we in the news media can read from them on the same day that Court Proceedings happen to let the public know what happened. There usually arent cameras or even recording devices in federal courts, and when something important happens in the federal courts it takes not a computer but a human, a really, really hard days work to get that stuff turned around so that we can present that material on tv, and you can get the next best thing to being there. Thank you to all the Court Reporters