Mr. Richmond votes no. Mr. Jeffries votes no. Mr. Cicilliny votes no. Thank you for joining us tonight. This is Roll Call Vote under way right now. Were watching this historic impeachment proceeding under way in congress. If youve been watching today and into tonight you know that in technical terms this is what tay call a markup which means the Judiciary Committee is there to change or fine tune the articles of impeachment against President Trump before a final vote. In reality what todays proceedings have been is an opportunity for democrats to make the case for impeaching President Trump, and its been an opportunity for republicans to criticize democrats for that and to try to derail the proceedings however they can. This committee started work at 9 00 this morning. We expect that a final vote on the Impeachment Articles could come as soon as this hour, but we really dont know just when itll happen. Tonight republicans are
continuing to offer up what are basically sort of stunt amendments, which Everybody Knows will be voted down party lines, which is exactly whats happening right now. They have reached the second article of impeachment, the article that says the president committed obstruction. They are now voting on republican amendment number five. Republican amendment number five will fail just like all the others have but thats the process were going through right now. Were hearing they may be about to take a vote on the actual articles of impeachment some time soon, in which case we will jump right back in. But this is history right now in the making. Lets get right back in now. Lets watch. Are there any members of the committee who wish to vote who havent voted . Clerical report. Mr. Chairman there are 17 ayes and 23 nos. The amendment is not agreed to. The committee will now stand in recess for half an hour. This is break that we had been advised might be coming around this time. Now, this is not the end of the proceedings. You heard jerry nadler there saying going into recess. Again, this has been a marathon session. This has been 12 hours already. They are breaking right now. We expect them not to be breaking for the night but to be reconvening within this hour. And this, of course, is, you know, this is history. We are living through this. Tomorrow is one of those days where youre going to want to buy the physical newspaper in case youre a sentimental old sap about the news like i am and in case like me youre also a bit of a hoarder, tomorrow is the day to have the physical paper. Tomorrows page one led hines in countries across the country its going to be a keeper. Starting at 9 00 a. M. Eastern, all day long in this Judiciary Committee that you see here has
been debating the two articles of impeachment that the committee has proposed against President Trump. The first one is abuse of power. The second one is obstruction. Now, as i mentioned the vote on these articles is expected some time tonight before they all collapse from exhaustion. It could be within this hour. They have gone through this series of procedural motions that there isnt like a Table Of Contents in advance that tells us exactly how many more of these procedural things they have to get to before they get to the final vote, so its hard for us to predict. If i want to sort of break the law a bit about our reporting process, we have been in contact with some members of congress and many congressional staffers over the course of it day today trying to get just for our own Planning Purposes some sense of what the timing is going to be, when breaks are going to happen, when theyre going to wrap, what theyre goal is, what other members of Congress Might want to be leaving congress to go do
and might see themselves a having a selfimposed deadline. And i will tell you over the course of the day as weve been having those conversations weve been getting directly contradictory evidence all day long from different members. And not even just from republicans and democrats telling us Different Things in some cases its members and staffers from the same party that just have different information or who are gaming it out differently. Its very, very unpredictable. But again this is recess weve sort of had word might be coming close to the top of this hour. Now, i dont know how much of this youve been able to watch today. If youve seen any of it, youll recognize or ill describe whats happening. All day long republicans have been offering amendments to the two Impeachment Articles. Again, the first one is abuse of power, the second is obstruction. In terms of what these amendments are, some of them i could summarize for you in watching the proceedings today. Some of them, not to be mean, but some of the articles the
republicans proposed werent all that coherent, so itd be hard to say exactly what those were about. But regardless whether those were coherent arguments or not, all of the republican amendments have been designed to basically stop the Impeachment Process or at least to slow it down. Republicans have Due Process Rights here, but theyre not going to win any of these votes as long as what theyre votes are about is trying to undo the process of bringing these Impeachment Articles against the president. So all the republican amendments thus far have all suffered the same fate. Thats what weve seen the same basic shampoo routine all day long. Speeches, then more speeches then more speeches, then occasionally a little excitement but theres an interpretation and that precipitates some arguing and a republican member of the committee would propose a coherent or not particularly coherent amendment to the Impeachment Art Krls and more
fighting and arguing and then thered be a voice vote in which the republican amendment would inevitably fail to pass, and then a republican would demand the voice vote Wasnt Good Enough and then the republican member of congress wanted a Roll Call Vote. And then thered be a Roll Call Vote and the amendment once again would clearly be shown to have failed and again more speeches. Rinse, repeat, dont forget the conditioner. So it has been sort of a recursive process all day long. If you didnt get it the first time, you definitely started to get the hang of it when they did it the fourth time and by the fifth time you could sing along. Theres a lot about the Impeachment Process its not exactly aggravating but it is definitely repetitive when you watch it in realtime. But number one, its all important. It is all heading towards a very specific ending. It is all heading towards a vote on articles of impeachment
against President Trump. And number two, for all of the aggravation and the repetition, the debate and the statements by the member of this committee sometimes is pretty good. I mean, if you havent been watching all day heres an example. There were a lot of good moments today. Actually theres members on the republican side or democratic side whether you agree or disagree with their arguments, there are members making arguments rational and interesting and thought provoking. But heres just an example, one of several we could have chosen that i think shows today at its best and shows the proceedings at its best. As long they are and occasionally aggravating as they are maryland congressman jamie raskin happens to be a Constitutional Law Professor which on days like this helps. And you will see him here
engaging with the arguments from the republican side. He definitely puts his shoulder into it a little bit. You can see he is feeling it, right . But hes not just out there picking fights and trying to obfuscate, trying to score points on his rivals across the aisle. Hes making a clear emphatic case for why the other side thats against impeachment is wrong and why he is going to vote yes. Just watch this. You didnt care about the russian waroon the people on t ukraine. He didnt care about corruption. They invite us to believe that donald trump is an anticorruption crusader who was shaking down president zelensky about corruption, when he doesnt raise any corruption on that call except for what he believed was going on with the bidens. Except he reduced anticorruption funding for
ukraine. Except he doesnt raise it anywhere else that we can find. And what do you know, you pick up the New York Times yesterday, President Trump had to pay 2 million to charities because he ripped off his own charity for millions of dollars. This is the anticorruption crusader they want us to believe in. The guy who had to pay 25 million to students at the phony trump university, which the Attorney General of new york called a classic bait and switch operation. This is the guy that they want us to believe was shaking down the president of ukraine because he had some secret anticorruption agenda that actually wasnt related to it the bidens, that wasnt related to rehabilitating the totally discredited russian Conspiracy Theory that it was ukraine and not russia that interfered in our campaign in 2016. Come on, get real. Be serious. We know exactly what happened
here. 17 witnesses. Its uncontradicted. Theres no rival story. No rival story at all. And our colleagues will not even tell us whether in theory they think it would be wrong for the president of the United States to shakedown Foreign Governments to come and get involved in our president ial campaigns in order to harm our republican opponents. Because its too dangerous at that point. We know they dont accept the facts. We know they dont accept the evidence. They dont like the fact that the depositions took place in the basement. Where should they have been . On the first floor, the second floor where they accept the facts if we found some other room . Would that be all right . Because their people were there. I was in that room. There were democrats, there were republicans. It was even on both sides. Enough of these phony process objects. Lets get back to the facts of what happened. The president of the united
states shook down a foreign power to come get involved in our election. Thats wrong. I yield back. Thats wrong. I yield back and you see his exasperation there at the end. Congressman jamie raskin of maryland. These Marathon Proceedings of the house as they pursue these Impeachment Proceedings, it is trying at times, i know. 12 hours and counting on this hearing already, and we dont know if this is going to end on todays calendar date or if this is going to go into the wee hours. It could very easily roll into dawn. I know its hard to take in that kind of volume of this activity but the Judiciary Committee really does have a bunch of members who do know what theyre talking about and who do make good arguments and are meaningfully contributing to this process in a way that is designed to help us, the public, understand the stakes here. And its all going down as part
of the historical record here tonight. But as these articles get their vote some time tonight and head to the full house for a vote there that looks like itll be next week, and as we then anticipate that the articles having at least one of them pass the house that will then be conveyed over to the senate for the trial of the president for his potential removal from office, as that is now happening, as we are now in the middle of that, if we are honest about it, if we are realistic about whats really happening here and how this is all going to end, honestly perhaps the most important place this impeachment is playing out is not on capitol hill at all. But its the fight for Public Opinion. And, yeah, those speeches and these fights that are happening on capitol hill, thats part of it. But thats also why this kind of stuff a really important to keep an eye on now, too. Both reuters and the Washington Post reporting in recent days on trump and republican ad blitzes on impeachment. The Trump Campaign and the
republican party have been buying up all the real estate online in terms of online ads about impeachment while these proceedings have been under way on capitol hill. They have particularly monopolized the ad space on facebook. Theyve run millions of dollars of facebook ads alone all against impeachment. Democrats have largely seated that territory to the antiimpeachment republican and Trump Campaign folks. Democrats and proimpeachment ads are not competing in that space at all. Facebook ads are all antiimpeachment. That said in terms of tv ads against democratic members of congress, republican ads that have been targeting House Democrats for voting for impeachment, Democratic Forces did just get a 10 million boost yesterday when billionaire president ial candidate Mike Bloomberg said he would donate 10 million to a democratic pac specifically to run ads
supporting House Democrats who have been targeted for their support for impeachment. Mike bloombergs approach to his president ial campaign is to spend a lot of money and run a lot of ads in support of his own dan candidacy. That is strategy that has given him a big bump in the polls. In addition to spending on himself to get up his poll numbers and to boost his own chances in the democratic primary, hes also spending considerable money now to boost democrats who are coming under fire for supporting impeachment. And with that that means at least democrats are thinking about rebutting the antiimpeachment messages that have been running on tv, even if theyre still not going there with the online ads, which trump and the republicans have to themselves. That said a Republican Group in support of trumps impeachment, a Republican Group that is critical of President Trump, a group called republicans for the rule of law, theyre now running bill boards, like roadside bill
boards in support of impeachment. And theyre running them in the home districts of a bunch of republican members of the house who might be feeling some heat at home in their swing districts about their support for the president in their impeachment fight. The Billboard Shows President Trump holding a finger up to his lips like hes saying shh and theres four would becould be Impeachment Witnesses who have been told not to testify. That same group, republicans for the rule of law,have been running tv ads including on the Fox News Channel supporting the Impeachment Effort, slaining the Impeachment Effort these ads theyve been Running On Fox have been specifically targeted to run during some of the president s favorite tv programs there. Was there a quid pro quo . The answer is yes. President trump held up military aid to ukraine in exchange for an investigation into the bidens. Withholding security
assistance in exchange for help in a domestic Political Campaign in the United States would be crazy. Republicans know that a quid pro quo is wrong. If you can show me that trump actually was engaging in a quid pro quo outside the phone call, that would be very disturbing. Was there a quid pro quo . The answer is yes. Republicans must stand up to trumps abuse of power. So the battle over the impeachment of President Trump isnt just happening at these Marathon Hearings including the one we are continuing to cover tonight. That is very, very important part of this process. That is what the historical record will be all about at this moment in american history. But beyond whats happening on capitol hill, the battle for Public Opinion also happens on the air waves and online, and that costs money. And it takes organization and effort. And the republicans in the Trump Campaign were definitely there first with their torrent of
antiimpeachment online advertising. Trying to turn the public against the Impeachment Effort. Theo other side, the proImpeachment Effort is at least showing signs of life and the proimpeachment side has also been strongly bolstered over the past week since the house released its report on impeachment, the report on the president s conduct. Its interesting i didnt necessarily expect that at this point in the president s process but when the house Impeachment Report about what President Trump did, when that 300 page report came out last week, one of the unexpected effects of that was that it setoff a cascade of major newspapers across the country all starting to run strong editorials in favor of impeachment. Even from Editorial Boards that had previously said they were against impeachment. And that recent torrent of major newspapers coming out and saying theyre in favor of impeaching the president here, that led to one funny moment in todays
hearing. I would like unanimous request to introduce the editorial from the usa today. They called for impeachment of the president from the los angeles, from the Philadelphia Inquirer and from the boston globe. I object. I want to read it. Objection is heard. Id love for him to read them. Who else seeks recognition . He proves i can read. The editorials that steve cohen introduced into the record there that doug collins from georgia said he wanted to read and steve cohen said id love for you to read them, theyre part of a tide of major Newspaper Editorials that have come out all of a sudden in the last few days in favor of impeachment. Usa todays Editorial Board saying, quote, until recently be believed Impeachment Proceedings would be unhealthy for an already polarized nation, unhealthy than simply leaving trumps fate up to voters next
november. But trumps egregious transgressions and stonewalling in his Thuggish Effort To Trade American Arms For Foreign Dirt on Joe Biden Trump Resembled richard nixon. Its precisely the type of misconduct the framers had in mind when they wrote impeachment into the constitution. That was from usa today. This is from the Washington Post Editorial Board which has been critical of impeachment so far. Quote, we take no pleasure in recommending the president s impeachment and are aware of the considerable costs and risks considerable costs and risks further dividing and inflaming our politics, turning impeachment into one more tool of partisan warfare, perhaps giving mr. Trump unwarranted aid in his reelection effort, but the house must make its decision
based on the facts and merits, setting aside unpredictable effects. Heres the boston globe. Their Editorial Board calls President Trumps behavior the Textbook Definition of corruption. The evidence that trumps actions are just the sort of behavior the founders had in mind when they devised the recourse for impeachment. The facts show this president has threatened the core values and integrity of our democracy. Congress has a duty to future generations to impeach him. Thats the boston globe. Heres the l. A. Times. Quote, the time Editorial Board was its also highly likely that trump will be acquitted by
the republican controlled senate. And that rightly or wrongly he would point to that in his Reelection Campaign as exoneration. But those concerns must yield to the overwhelming evidence that trump perverted u. S. Foreign policy for his own political gain. That sort of misconduct is outrageous and corrosive of democracy. It cant be ignored by the house and it merits a full trial by the senate on whether to remove him from office. Thats the l. A. Times. Heres the philadelphia enquirer. The Editorial Board there is singling out the second article against the president. They say, quote, it is the second article, the Obstruction Of Congress by his unprecedented categorical and defiance of subpoenas and the members of congress who initiated President Trump has severely disrespected his office and the document he
swore to protect and uphold. Should this process end with a trial and a senate vote to remove him from office, a prospect that seems highly unlikely, its not hard to imagine that he would insist that the process was invalid, and he would refuse to go. Such an act of tyranny is what the constitution was created to protect against. Thats why this Impeachment Process is urgent and should move forward without delay. Republicans and democrats going at each others arguments, going at it at times personally. Weve got the ad wars basically uncontested ad space, their antiimpeachment ad war online. Democrats competing if at all in that space. And then surprise with the
report the Impeachment Report being released from the house weve got major newspaper Editorial Boards including those reluctant to join this call now coming out in a big tide saying theyre in favor of it and this couldnt be a more urgent matter. The house is going to be voting at some point tonight. Theyre in recess right now. Were expecting them back within the next certainly within the hour. But with the house planning its vote tonight, the battle for Public Opinion is happening in that hearing room. It is also happening well beyond capitol hill. We the voters, we the public do not have an overt role in this process. We dont get a vote, but you Better Believe Public Opinion about these proceedings is going to determine what happens here and what this moment means in american history. Joining us now from capitol hill is congressman david cicilliny
of rhode island. Congressman, sir, thank you so much for taking time to talk to us. Im sure you guys are both bushed and busy. Yes, indeed. What can you tell us about whats happening right now and how you expect the rest of the evening to go . Were on a break now for 30 minutes and will resume as soon as that break is over. We expect additional republican amendments. But youve heard from the democrats during the course of this hearing that the president of the United States used the enormous power of his office, the enormous power of the u. S. Presidency to drag a foreign power into an american president ial election to help him cheat in 2020, and he used Taxpayer Money, hundreds of millions of dollars as leverage to attempt to achieve that. And this is a sacred responsibility that we have to protect and defend the constitution and to protect and defend our elections. And this is president who tried to drag a Foreign Government to
cheat, to bring some advantage to him. And so what weve tried to make clear is if we dont hold this president accountable, if we say its okay, we should have every expectation this president will engage in this behavior again and continue to seek foreign assistance. And well send a message to every future president reach out to a foreign power and ask them for help and well lose our democracy. So this is really about our ability to be a democracy and allow the American People to elect their own leaders and decide their own future. And as i said tonight, you know who gets to decide whos going to win american president ial elections, the American People. Not a foreign power. And this is about protecting the it integrity of our election, protecting the National Security of the United States and preventing the president of the United States from cheating in the 2020 election. As you and your colleagues have been making these arguments over the course of the day and into tonight, ive seen real elements of eloquence. I havent seen any republicans say theyre starting to agree with you on any of these matters. I havent seen any democrats saying actually thats a good objection and maybe my republican colleagues have a point there. The aisle between the two parties seems as empty as ever. Because of that i wonder if this Amendment Process is meant to be persuasive or is it just meant to make this hearing go as long as possible in the hope that somebody drops first . Its unclear what the republicans expect to achieve, but, you know, i think the final question that the American People have to ask as they watch this is why is it ever okay to allow a foreign power to attempt to distort an american president ial election, why would it ever be okay for the president of the United States to invite that foreign interference and actually try to coerce a foreign leader so he could cheat in the 2020 election . Weve heard a lot about the economy and a lot about policy
disagreements. This isnt about a Policy Disagreement. Thats what elections are for. This is about an oath we took on the first day we were sworn into office to protect and defend the constitution. And the constitution provides a single remedy for a president who engages in this kind of misconduct. And that remedy is impeachment. And our framers spoke about the most dangerous threat would be foreign interference and that a president would betray the National Interests and use the enormous powers to advance his or her own personal interests and not the public interests. And we have overwhelming evidence of that. Its really uncontested and the question i think my republican colleagues have to answer and hopefully theyre hearing during the course of this debate is why is that okay . Why is it okay ever to have a president reach out to a foreign leader in an effort to try to smear his chief political rival and distort the next election, and to really cheat to help win
his election . And if we allow this to happen, we will be sending a very bad message to this president who has sort of engaged in a pattern of this behavior, and well send the same message to future president s and thats dangerous to our democracy. One of the interesting things and sort of novel things in terms of the history of impeachment, the investigation into what the president did and who else was involved and what all it is entailed in this scheme is ongoing. And we got sort of a dramatic remanldr reminder of that last night when released information about Vice President mike pence and the Intelligence Committee had asked the Vice President to declassify it so we the public could see it, too. The Vice President s office said they wouldnt. But thats new information about essentially the extent of what went on between the Trump Administration and ukraine that you guys presumably will be able to see with protections for classified information. I dont know if well ever get
to see it, but is there still a sort of Fact Finding Process under way even as your committee decides its seen enough to advance these two articles . Yes, this is frankly a crime in progress. I mean the president is continuing to attempt to cheat in the 2020 election. His lawyer, Rudy Giuliani who led this scheme on the president s behalf was back in ukraine. So thats one of the reasons this is so urgent that it continues to compromise the National Security interests of the United States. It continues to compromise the integrity of our elections, and thats the urgency of acting. We cant wait until the next election. My republican colleagues said today oh, theres an election around the corner, why cant we wait . Its precisely because an election around the corner we need to move expeditiously. Because the president s conduct is attempting to cheat and rig the election using the
election as a remedy when thats the very conduct at issue here doesnt make any sense. So it does underscore the importance of moving expeditiously, obviously thoroughly and carefully but theres overwhelming evidence thats been collected. A number of Text Messages and emails between trump officials, over a hundred hours of sworn testimony, and as i said overwhelming evidence that the president of the United States used the enormous power of his office in an attempt to cheat in the 2020 election, to corrupt our elections by dragging a foreign power into an american president ial election and using hundreds of millions of dollars of Taxpayer Money as leverage. And the other really important point is ukraine is really the tip of the spear. This is an country in active war with the russians. Theyre still killing people in Eastern Ukraine and as a new emerging democracy, American Military aid is their lifeline. And so the only person who benefits from that hold on that
military aid was to weaken ukraine which is to the advantage of Vladimir Putin and the russians and to get donald trump some help in his Reelection Campaign. So this is gravely serious and requires action by the Judiciary Committees so we can do everything we can do protect our democracy. Congressman david cicilliny of rhode island. Sir, over your shoulder on my screen i can see your colleagues starting to take their seats again as this recess comes to a close. Weve got much more to get to on this historic night. Theyre on a brief break right now on the Judiciary Committee. We believe theyre convening on the other side of this heading toward what will be a vote we believe tonight on these two articles of impeachment against President Trump. This is history in the making. Stay with us. Ump. This is history in the making. Stay with us
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stop dancing around the pain that keeps you up again, and again. Advil pm silences pain, and you sleep the whole night. Advil pm we were paying an arm and a leg for postage. I remember setting up shipstation. One or two clicks and everything was up and running. I was printing out labels and saving money. Shipstation saves us so much time. It makes it really easy and seamless. Pick an order, print everything you need, slap the label onto the box, and its ready to go. Our costs for shipping were cut in half. Just like that. Shipstation. The 1 choice of online sellers. Go to shipstation. Com try and get 2 months free. We are continuing to cover this ongoing markup. Its called a markup because technically whats going on right now in the Judiciary Committee is that the members have the opportunity to amend, to change the articles of impeachment before they take a final vote on them. We did not necessarily expect this was going to be 12 plus
hours and this was going to be going into the late night and potentially heading overnight and toward dawn, what they could go as long as they want. And at the tom of this hour they took a recess. They announced it would be about 30 minutes. You can see some of the members are back in the room. We dont know exactly when theyll reconvene after this recess, but you can see some members are there. I want to bring in now chuck rosenberg, former u. S. Attorney for the Eastern District of virginia. Chuck, i dont know how much of this youve been able to watch over the course of the day, its been a marathon proceeding. But watching this and thinking about the gravity of these proceedings, what do you think we ought to be watching for . Heres what id like to see, obviously a historic event and important event. People should be paying attention. But debates arent just talking
about, theyre about listening, and there doesnt seem to be a lot of that going on. It goes all the way back to a Constitutional Convention when William Dave Awwas arguing for clause in the constitution itself as it was being drafted. And a fellow was adamantly opposed, but he listened. And he listened and he heard davys argument, heard ben franklin argument for the inclusion of an impeachment clause, and eventually he stood up and he said three remarkable words i was wrong. We need this. I listened and it made sense. To my thinking as a prosecutor the facts are overwhelming, theyre compelling. Whether or not its impeachable is a political judgment but gosh i wish people would listen to one another. I was talking to congressman
cicilliny and persuasion either i think it probably is the goal but theres no evidence of anybody coming any closer to anybody elses side. And i dont know if theyre only arguing for the cameras or people at home or if they do have any Hope Speaking to one another. 2317 on all these amendments, and the amendments arent particularly substantive. They seemed designed to stop the process or derail the process rather than contribute to it. And perhaps thats why the founders put a requirement into the constitution not for impeachment but for removal, conviction in the senate you need a super majority, you need two thirds. Getting to the basic idea, this has to be bipartisan at least in the sense that some members of numbers, some number of senators have to cross over. And for them to do that, they have to be open to the facts. You mentioned i happened to be a federal prosecutor and i was and it was a great privilege in my life. I do believe that a jury drawn from the community who came in and promised just listen to the facts and applied the instructions as given by a judge would convict. Now obviously this is not a conviction were seeking but simply a vote on whether donald trump should be removed. Do you believe because after all it will be souse Impeachment Managers who play the role as prosecutors for the jury of the senate. Do you believe given what youve seen from the potential cast of house Impeachment Managers that they are capable of conducting the trial of the president in the senate in a way that does credit to the gravity of this,
whether or not you can anticipate anything how senators will vote and theyll be able to divide from their Party Affiliation . The House Managers, the prosecutors, the purpose of the trial in the senate must abide by the senate rules, whatever they turn out to be. So if the senate rules unnecessarily or improperly constrain them or if the Senate Perhaps doesnt want to hear from witnesses or doesnt want to see the introduction of documents or Text Messages, then i think its going to be a really tough road for those House Managers to walk. When we try cases in federal court, there are Federal Rules Of Criminal Procedure and federal rules of evidence, and Everybody Knows those rules whos in that courtroom. And those are the rules that govern our trials. The rules here, right, can change. The rules here can be overwritten with a majority vote, and its a difficult path
for house manages, prosecutors, if you will, to walk. We dont know what time the vote will be on these two articles. When they made their decision to focus pretty tightly on the president s behavior around the ukraine scandal, abuse of power for the first article. Second article, Obstruction Of Congress. Do you feel like they left stuff on the table that could have been just as easily to frame in the articles of impeachment . Obviously this is the stuff they had dead to rights, theres Little Fack Chul contest for the things that form the bases of those two article. Do you feel theres Anything Else thats been derived from the Impeachment Investigation that could have just as easily as a clean cut blend itself to the article . Maybe not just as easily but
i feel there was a big piece left out and that was volume 2 of the Mueller Report, the section on obstruction. I think i said this on your show, but if not here goes. I have tried people on obstruction on much less evidence than the mueller team had accumulated. And so if you want to tell a Story Lets Say in a criminal case, you want to develop a pattern because patterns show intent. Right, one false tax return would not ever be a criminal case. Two false tax returns probably wouldnt be a criminal case. But if you were filing false tax returns for years, a pattern of illicit conduct, that becomes a criminal case because from patterns we can divine intent. So that pattern of illicit conduct you see outlined in volume 2 of the maller report i think illustrates the president s intent if you couple that, and again im biased because those types of things seem obvious to me and maybe not
so obvious to others. It doesnt make it right, by the way. Its because ive seen this stuff. But if you couple the obstructive conduct outlined in the Mueller Report i think you have much more of a pattern, which gives you much more of an insight into the president s intent. Its been something ive been hung up on since the article came out. At the end of each article of impeachment, theres a reference to this fitting a pattern of the president s behavior. I want to bring into the conversation now a member of the committee. Sheila jacksonlee, a member of congress and shes managed to sneak away just before this recess ends. Thank you so much for making time. Thank you for having me. Can you tell us a little bit what you expect is going to happen when you reconvene and how thank you the rers st of th
evening is going to go . Rachel, this is a teaching moment. The republicans are speaking to one constituent and that is President Trump. What were trying to do is again explain to the American People this very somber process, articles of impeachment and the ultimate Impeachment Vote of the president of the United States based upon his own actions of using public dollars and public setting to secure opposition on a rival from a foreign entity. When frankly were talking about corruption and betrayal and the interference with americas elections. You know, we were speaking earlier today, and we spoke about those words do us a favor. And i believe some members were using me or left out the word us and the president tweeted
and suggested we were lying. And frankly i want to make sure we educate the American People we have a mountain of evidence, 300 pages, 17 witnesses to say that were not. And frankly, the president asked mr. Zelensky for a favor right after this very vulnerable new president asked for defense aid. So thats what were doing tonight. Were continuing as long as the republicans want to offer amendments to undermine the articles, to delete words, to offer amendments to take out the language that was the same language in the 1998 proceedings. Were going to continue to educate the American People and ultimately vote our conscience on articles of impeachment. Depending on the number of amendments they continue to offer and how this proceeding goes and how late it goes, do you expect there will be a vote on the articles tonight no matter how deeply into the
evening and potentially into the overnight hours this stretches to . As long as they have amendments, were going to stay here. Our point is were not speaking to one constituent, one person as they are, and we really are. We really are speaking to the American People. And i said the waitress gets up early in the morning were speaking to americans who work every day for them to understand this is about the constitution. And George Washington said he was not going to abandon the constitution. Thats what were doing. So were going to go as late as necessary with these amendments, and well decide whether that vote will be taken tonight. Were not leaving washington until that vote is taken. Congresswoman cheesheila jacksonlee of texas. I know it looks like things are getting back to order in the hearing room. Thank you for taking time with us. I will just say shes a veteran member of congress, a veteran
member of that committee and its just one of the members of congress and they exist on both sides of the aisle who just exudes gravitas and seriousness of which she approaches her job. And its heartening as a civic matter to have people like that in the midst of these proceedings. Just ask control room if theyve reconvened formally. Were going to jump back into this. A retiring member of congress and a republican from wisconsin. And it goes onto what has been alleged in these two articles whether they are really high crimes and misdemeanors. I would submit on both them as an emphatic no. One has been accused of being an abuse of power is in my opinion a Policy Disagreement on how the president should have approached the issues that are outlined
there. And let me say as far as foreign aid goes and the issue of the 391 million of foreign aid to ukraine is that practically every bit of foreign aid that the United States disperses following a congressional appropriation is contingent on something or another. And one of the Common Threads whether its so stated in the foreign aid enactment or not is whether or not there is any type of corruption that is involved in that. I think we all have conceded that ukraine has been a pretty corrupt country and that president zelensky was elected on an anticorruption platform, and we wish it well in cleaning the place up. The fact is i think the president had been derelict in his duty at least had he held
off or just given the foreign aid without trying to check on corruption, and that is what was going on. As far as Obstruction Of Congress is concerned, earlier today i talked a bit about the fact that this article is drafted so loosely and so weakly that it turns the United States into a parliamentary form of government. And the consequence of that is whenever we have a president in the majority of the House Of Representatives controlled by opposite parties, youre going to attempt to see the majority in the House Of Representatives try to ilpeampeach the presiden. But i would like to finally say we have heard an awful lot about the fact that if donald trump is not impeached or removed from office hes going to steal the 2020 election. That is one of the most outlandish predictions i have
ever heard. The 2020 election is going to be looked at very closely by representatives of both of the candidates, by the news media, by a lot of citizens whether theyre involved with the campaigns of the candidates or not. And its going to be pretty darn hard to steal the 2020 election after all of this has happened. But whats happening here is theres an attempt to steal the 2016 election three years after the fact. Because if donald trump is impeached and removed from office based on this flimsy record, based upon all of the problems of the Extinguishing Minority Rights both on the Intelligence Committee and before tonight here, then that would end up stealing the 2016 election. It will end up voiding the votes of the 63 Million People who voted for donald trump for president of the United States. And i think that that will be something that will haunt this country for decades to come. The time to stand up for the constitution is now. The time to determine how you stand up to the constitution is by voting no on both article of impeachment, and i yield back the balance of my time. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. For what purpose does the gentleman of tennessee seek recognition . Strike the last word. The gentleman is recognized. Thank you, sir. I join in commending the chairman on his running of the committee tonight. Its been very difficult. And were a little bit tired, at least i am and chairmans done a great job. But i totally disagree with the
chairman in his summation in what we have before us. I think they are dead wrong on their opinion of the articleoffs impeachment. There are two articles and this is no way stealing on election. If donald trump is removed from office the election from 2016 is in no way nullified. Mike pence will be president and thats in no way a walk in the park. As far as policies theyd be about the same. Theres been a lot of discussion what weve had here, but basically this is an issue about abuse of power based on testimony of Lieutenant Colonel vindman, ambassador yovanovitch, ambassador taylor, and dr. Hill. These are four independent class acts, people we should all look
to. They are patriots, but they are Career Foreign Service folk who have done great jobs for america, are nonpartisan, and they came forth out of a sense of duty to testify. And what theyve testified to is what happened with ukraine was wrong, that there was an abuse of power. And thats why came forth. And to say that this whole process is corrupt is basically an affront to each of those four patriots who came forward. So those four Career Foreign Service officials, those four people who are nonpartisan, they did a service to this country. The fact is the facts are the disputed that what happened was a favor, though, although id like to ask you for a favor though and then mulvaney going out, get used to it, thats politics, thats what happened. And then we had sondland say they were all in on it, and it was a requirement and to get the
military aid youve got to announce the investigation. Theres nothing other than that. They could use it as a campaign ad for trump. Yeah, the markets up. Bob corker who served in the senate said the two biggest mistakes he made when he was up here was voting for the tax scam, which he didnt call it that, but voting for the budget that came afterwards, exploding the debt. And someone on the other side talked about how we need to be up here and they have exploded the debt. They have no traditional republican philosophy whatsoever. The kurds, sayonara, theyve ruined us in The Middle East forever. Trump just sold them out for his friend in turkey and the kurds were the hell with you. And we gave syria to the russians. And just yesterday trump met with lavrov, a russian ambassador. No report of what they talked about except the white house said they talked about influence not to have influence in the next election, that trump told him he shouldnt try to influence our next elections. Lavrov said we didnt discuss the elections, thats not true. Hard to figure out which ones lying. Neither one of them have a very good track record. So i hope we can get it finished today, pass these two articles and do whats important to protect our democracy, support our oath, abide by our oath, support the constitution and support our National Security. All of which has been jeopardized by donald j. Trump by his selfdealing with ukraine. I said earlier today that the president of ukraine was an actor and a politician. I wasnt saying anything bad about him. A lot of actors are great. I love actors. I love politicians. I am a politician. But thats why he couldnt say that there was he was under any duress or any influence. He couldnt say that because he was in an inferior position. Its like a battered wife who has her husband around, she cant say to the police he beat me up because hes there and when the police leave, hell do it again. And so he was in a terrible position. I look forward to meeting him. Im going to be in ukraine in february, and i think hes doing a wonderful job. And for some people who said ukraine is the third worst in the world its like 120 out of 180 in rankings. Not good but not the worst. Gentleman yields back and i think we all share those sentiments. Who else seeks recognition . Move to strike the last word, mr. Chairman. Gentlemen is recognized. Before i get into impeachment i have to respond to the gentleman from tennessee who made a couple of remarks. I would start off by saying i really like the gentleman from tennessee, mr. Cohen. Hes really a good guy, but hes flat out wrong about the taxes. The tax cuts have really helped this country. Its one of the main reasons were seeing the economy take off and peoples Bank Accounts and Savings Accounts and retirement accounts are so much better and positive right now because the president and Republican Congress passed those tax cuts without a single democratic vote. And one big difference between the two parties so republicans want to cut your taxes and republicans in general, not everyone they want to raise your taxes. Relative to impeachment, back in the early 1970s, i was a College Student and our nation was going through another impeachment at the time. Richard nixon, i had actually voted for him. He was the first president i voted for in 1972. And obviously he got in trouble and was going to be impeached, but he resigned before the articles of impeachment were voted of the Judiciary Committee, this committee. But before the house took it up he resigned from office. And little did i know that about 25 years later our nation would be going through another impeachment and that was bill clinton obviously. And id be very closely involved in that. And of the 41 people on this committee, five us were here in those days. Mr. Sensenbernen and i happen today be House Managers as some of the prosecutors on the case and some of the folks on the other side are going to get that opportunity and good luck. And henry hyde was our leader at the time and he said were not
going to be very welcome over there, and we werent. So well see what happens when you all are over there. But bill clinton he was impeached by the house and the senate did not remove him from office. I think thats what were likely going to see happen in this case. But back then bill clinton put his hand on the bible and swore to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and then he lied. He committed perjury. And thats something hundreds of people were in jail for at the time. He had committed a high crime and misdemeanor. Very different from this case. Theyre not even alleging a crime in this case. Theres clearly not a high crime and misdemeanor. Thats why ill be voting against impeaching the president in this instance. And i think the democrats have
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