Transcripts For MSNBCW The Rachel Maddow Show 20191113

Shredder yes, sir. About our relations with broadcasts its special report tomorrow morning on the ukraine, particularly in law impeachment proceedings against pardon . Was there more than one . Enforcement. President trump, the first have we ever asked the ukrainians to investigate thos. Public impeachment hearings in no, sir. Anybody and and i told her, the impeachment proceedings and he asked where the big Paper Shredder is . Right. Well, catherine, there are two against president donald j. Did you ask him why he wanted to know . Ways of looking at that trump and when that nbc news no, sir, i didnt. I said its in there. Question. If there is a crime that was did he have anything with him . Committed in the United States and theres some nexus for us to special report tomorrow morning is anchored by lester holt from not at that time. He later came out and said how do you work it, and i said you have to take action, we have two press the button. Mechanisms for that. Nightly news and nbcs chief and then later on i saw him with we have a mutual Legal Assistance treaty and west legal Legal Correspondent today show a pile of papers perhaps a foot high. Attaches at the embassy. Host Savannah Guthrie and chuck and what was he doing with thats the way a Law Enforcement it . Todd from meet the press, yes, investigation should engage the we all work in the same building he was on his way in the together. Yes, we are part of the same big ukrainians. Happy family. But i cant tell you exactly shredding room. But then he says the other what that nbc news special did you see him shredding the option, maybe what youre coverage is going to look like. Asking, is the political option. Papers . No. And if youre asking me if we but i assumed he was going to have ever gone to the ukrainians that said, i can pretty much shred them. Do you shred papers of that sort and that quantity regularly . And asked them to investigate or no, sir, i dont. Does anyone . Well prosecute individuals for well. Political reasons, the answer is i hope we havent, and we guarantee you it will not have a theme song as cool or as oddly is it normal to be shredding a ponderous and artistic as the shouldnt because that goes foottall pile of paper at the against everything we are trying president s Reelection Campaign headquarters just after we learn way nbc news played its special theme song and leadin to the theres been a mysterious break promote in postsoviet states for the last 28 years, which is the promotion of the rule of in into one of our opponents law. Kent says, and that was, as i impeachment proceedings in 1973 offices . Said, august 15th. For then president richard the 16th, the next day, i had a nixon. Because that was all covered well, i mean, it was not normal conversation with bill taylor in which he amplified the same with nbc news special reports, for me, sir. Theme. Taylor indicated that special too. Normal. Representative volker had been that was the first witness in the televised public watergate engaging an assistant to the hearings which ultimately led to ukrainian president , that but have you seen this . President Richard Nixons President Trump and his private resignation. The Office Manager in the nixon attorney Rudy Giuliani were this was they like developed a whole theme song. Interested in the initiation of this was like the opening credits to the watergate Reelection Campaign, just doing hearings. Investigations. And i told bill taylor that is nbc news special report. Wrong, we should not be doing his job, not caught up in that as a matter of u. S. Nixons crimes until he saw some policy. The questioner then says what of the residue of the crimes and did he say . Meaning what did taylor say. Kent answers, he said he agreed that criminal behavior around with me. Him in this office he was and so after having these two managing. And he was able to describe on that first day of hearings the conversations i wrote a note to sort of creeping revelation that the file saying i had concerns, that there was an effort to something was wrong. Initiate politically motivated he was able to describe that through the eyes of somebody who prosecutions that were injurious watergate. Hadnt really expected anything senate hearings. To be wrong and who himself was to the rule of law both in not in on any of the crimes. Ukraine and the United States. Here from washington is nbc news do you see how thats sort of like a moral calibration, right, rather than starting with a injurious to the rule of law correspondent Garrick Utley. Villain, rather than starting there and here. Good morning. With somebody whos got an axe this is the Senate Caucus room in washington, d. C. , and its and now those two officials who jammed this morning. To grind. Had that conversation, who agreed that this was wrong, this starting with somebody that is not the way this is done, jammed with spectators, newsmen, happens to be there, whoa, senators and their aides. There is a legal and proper way and the scene adds to the sense whats going on here . To engage with ukraine on real investigations and real law of drama as the senate opens tomorrow the impeachment hearings against president with what is likely to become the most Serious Investigation Enforcement Matters if there is it has ever made. Trump, only the fourth an investigation of the american impeachment proceedings against some real concern here under political system and the u. S. Law. But thats not whats happening a sitting president in the United States. Here. Doing this for political reasons tomorrow those impeachment to try to affect political outcomes in the United States is presidency itself. Hearings against President Trump will not start with the campaign wrong under u. S. Law. Office manager. But they are going to start with two witnesses. Its also wrong and hurtful to the name of the investigation is the current top diplomat for the u. S. Government in ukraine. This key ally of ours who at this moment is fighting a war watergate because that is the name of the building where the Democratic Party offices were you may remember he was sent to with russia, and were undermining them in that war ukraine on short notice after with everything we are doing here. Americas previous ambassador to that country got recalled from her post, which is apparently i mean, these are the two guys part of the scheme for which who maybe more than anybody get President Trump is now being impeached. That. Located, offices that were broken into last year. They needed her out of there so but the investigation that she wouldnt stand in their way begins today will go far beyond that incident. The senators will also be asking questions about other acts of for what they were trying to get and they will start the public political sabotage in last years president ial campaign. The ukraine government to do. Impeachment proceedings against and theyll be asking about the President Trump tomorrow. Were going to hear from that and it is not going to be, you money, secret cash that financed recalled ambassador on friday of this week. Know, bob odle standing there the acts of sabotage, where it but tomorrow well hear from the came from, how it was used. Veteran diplomat who was called in on short notice to take her with a pointer pointing at an that is the senate committee, place after she was fired and org chart for the Nixon Campaign. Seven members headed by senator his name is ambassador bill taylor. At least i dont think theyre sam irvin of north carolina. Thats nbc news correspondent well also hear tomorrow from the top career official at the going to do anything like that. State department who has responsibility for ukraine. But it is going to be starting Garrick Utley off camera but with people who know how things Deputy Assistant secretary of doing like live color, live play state george kent. Are supposed to go and the legal and as far as we understand it by play of the nbc news special and proper channels u. S. Policy report on the first day of the these two witnesses are going to is supposed to flow through, be seated at the same time, so what those channels are. And i think that starts us off watergate hearings may 17th, presumably next to each other at 1973. Basically with a moral having to kind of vamp there a little bit as everybody is the witness stand at this calibration, so we can sort of getting seated. Hearing. Calibrate our moral vision so no more pictures, no more it will be held in the large pictures, okay theyre convening Committee Hearing room at the that the country through these Longworth House Office building, which is a really ornate, really impeachment hearings will be the hearing. Large room. And tomorrow morning every it sometimes can be mistaken for the house chamber. Its a big room you can fit a lot of people in, and its very able to see how wrong it was and fancy. Proceedings will start tomorrow how injurious it was when network will do their own morning. President trump came in and started acting for himself here version of this special report, right . Instead of for the interests of the United States of america. As i just mentioned nbc news is and to that end, i will tell you going to have their whole senior doors will open at 9 45 for crew doing their special report. People to take their seats and the press to get into positions. Just one other thing you should again, 46 1 2 years on from the then at 10 00 a. M. Eastern time know before that testimony the hearings will be gaveled tomorrow. Way it looked in watergate. Into order. There will be Opening Statements from California Democratic im not sure how much pickup Brian Williams and nicolle congressman adam schiff who chairs the intelligence this has had today if any. Committee and after him therell i mentioned that bill taylor is wallace will be coanchoring be an Opening Statement from serving as the top u. S. Diplomat in ukraine right now. So hes based at the embassy in msnbc special coverage starting kiev. At 9 00 a. M. All of the networks are going to devin nunes, whos the Top Republican on that committee. Be doing Something Like this. Hes obviously had to leave after their Opening Statements ukraine and come back to the but as you can see from this both of the witnesses, bill u. S. In order to give this vintage testimony from 73, the taylor and george kent, will be public testimony tomorrow. Fact we have done this so few sworn in. There will be a time for them to but before he did so bill taylor times in American History means give opening remarks as well, its hard to see any of this as just published an oped in a although we dont know if either of them will do so. And then the questioning will weekly newspaper in ukraine and start. Normal, right . Technically the first 45 minutes that oped that he wrote is running right now in that weekly of questioning on each sides on each side belongs to the top paper ahead of his impeachment its hard to extrapolate what testimony tomorrow. Democrat and the Top Republican weve already been through to and in this oped bill taylor know exactly what it ought to be on the committee, again, adam schiff and devin nunes. Says nothing about impeachment like when these hearings kick but at least schiff, if not both off tomorrow. Of them are expected to give up theres nothing you can look at explicitly, certainly says from 73 or any of the other nothing about President Trump, but he sets the scale he impeachments that can tell you most of that time, to cede most zeros it again. How its likely to go this time. Right . He calibrates our vision again for example, i can tell you i of that opening 45 minutes for dont think theyre going to run each side to lawyers who have back to what is normal and how been hired by the committee in the u. S. Government is supposed part with an eye toward this process. To behave toward ukraine and so adam schiff and devin nunes why. Can take back any of that time hes very emphatic about it. They want. They can do any of that this is what he says in this brand new oped. That theme music and that opening again. He says, the United States i will say its cool enough i want to take it for this show. Questioning themselves. But were expecting in all what we need on this show is stands side by side with the likelihood itll start after people and government of ukraine ready to help ukraine achieve more timpani, ive always thought so. Those Opening Statements 45 watergate its goals, halting russias aggression against ukraine and as we head into the krim paecht minutes by the lawyer on the cementing ukraines place in the democratic side and 45 minutes hearings against President Trump by the lawyer on the republican side. Tomorrow, i do think theres an for those of us who are going to be watching this at home trying euroatlantic community. Almost forgotten element of how to follow along, thats probably the United States is firmly this was handled in watergate a blessing. Committed to ukraines success. That is maybe a little bit your success is our success. We will not allow russia to instructive for what were about right . It at least means there will be dismantle the international to see tomorrow. And that is for all the drama, continuity at the start. For all the gravitas and order that was painstakingly there will be continuity of built after world war ii. Momentum of that moment, that purpose in questioning that is the concepts of sovereignty, sort of nationwide showstopping not continuously interrupted by territorial integrity, peaceful needing to flip to a new resolution of disputes will suspense as to what would happen questioner every few minutes. At those watergate hearings and right . Benefit all nations. How they would go, what wed all thats how itll start, two russias war against ukraine shreds the International Norms learn, for all the huge buildup to that first day, that first 45minute chunks from the that kept peace and enabled prosperity for decades. Democrats and the republicans. The United States continues to and after that well get into provide weapons and training and public hearing in watergate, do equipment to Ukraines Armed that familiar disorienting forces, and we continue to you want know who they called as the first witness that day . Rhythm where all the remaining impose sanctions on russia for when the eyes of every single members of the committee, 13 its illegal actions in ukraine. Democrats and 9 republicans including the chair and ranking sentient human in america were member on each side, all the this is bill taylor writing in on this broadcast, the first remaining members will he each witness they called for the get five minutes to do their ukraine today, setting the sort opening day, was the office questioning. Thereafter itll pingpong back and forth between the democratic and republican members. Of benchmark for what used to be manager, whose name you will not recognize today. But even at the time nobody so we shall see how all of that recognized his name then either. The noncontroversial nonpartisan u. S. Policy towards ukraine and goes. I cant wait. What u. S. Support for that i dont know how im going to country was and why. And then he closes with this. Counsel will call the first sleep tonight. In part just because this is a witness. Historic thing. Quote, as everyone who promotes democracy knows, strengthening there arent very Many Americans will mr. Robert odle please and protecting Democratic Values come to the witness table . Since the history since the is a constant process requiring origins of our country who have persistence and steady work by mr. Robert odle. Both officials and ordinary ou can see they didnt lived through an impeachment. Citizens. It just hasnt happened very many times in our history as a country. Drama. This is the first witness. To be here for it, let alone to they didnt have the first he says, as in all democracies witness sitting anywhere near have the privilege of helping including the United States, the witness table or the front of the room. Has to make his way through the cover it as a news story is just a humbling and exciting thing. Work remains in ukraine, especially to strengthen rule of law and to hold accountable whole crowd. Obviously hes also wearing his we also learned late tonight those who try to subvert ukraines structures to serve fathers suit. Just before getting on the air so theres this choice they made their personal aims rather than tonight a little bit more about to bring up this very, very the overall schedule for these young man to be the first hearings after tomorrow. This first one tomorrow george the nations interests. Witness in the watergate hearings. Kent and William Taylor are the nobody has ever heard of him. Witnesses. Bill taylor, americas top weve known for several days now they were not trying to wow the that the second hearing will be diplomat in ukraine, writing country coming out of the gate friday of this week with that that oped in a ukrainian with some big explosive witness newspaper before flying back to this country to give testimony or very wellknown witness at in the public impeachment the top of the hearings. Proceedings against president ambassador who was recalled from trump tomorrow. Ukraine, marie yovanovitch. But just tonight chairman schiff work remains to strengthen the i mean, they knew everybody in announced the next several days rule of law and to hold the country was watching. Of impeachment hearings which the anticipation could not have will be next week tuesday, accountable those who try to been more dramatic, and they bring on this 29yearold kid subvert these structures to who had been the Office Manager serve their personal aims rather wednesday and thursday. Than the nations interests. For the nixon Reelection Campaign. But theyre divided into morning and what they had him do for most of his testimony is they work remains. And afternoon sessions. Tuesday in the morning the literally had him take out of a public hearing will include testimony from jennifer williams. This is an exciting eve. Pointer, you see him holding the shes the only official from the Vice President s office whos microphone there and holding a been called to testify thus far. Pointer, and he walks through weve got Michael Beschloss here tonight to talk about what the organizational chart of how shell testify Tuesday Morning history tells us we should be watching for. The nixon Reelection Campaign was organized. Alongside Lieutenant Colonel in the morning. Chuck rosenberg is here with us who was running it, who was he alexander vindman. Tonight. Running security, who was deputy weve got a lot to get to. Stay with us. To get to. Hes the active duty military stay with us to who, where did everybody sit . Officer who serves as the top as soon as the homeowners arrive, the morning after that First Official at the white house. Well inform them that Liberty Mutual hearing the front page of the hes the Lieutenant Colonel from customizes home insurance, the army whos been vilified and New York Times had robert odle so theyll only pay for what they need. Attacked by republican members of congress and particularly by the conservative media. Your turn to keep watch, limu. Jr. , there he is, 29, on the hes going to testify in public wake me up if you see anything. In these impeachment proceedings a week from today in that morning session with jennifer front page of the new york williams. Times pointing at the org chart [ snoring ] for the nixon Reelection Campaign. It might not have been the and then on Tuesday Morning blockbuster beginning the excuse me, tuesday afternoon [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] country had been hoping for, but next week therell be a second looking back at that now and session with two more witnesses. Only pay for what you need. Kurt volker, recently resigned especially how things unfolded liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. During watergate, it kind of as the u. S. Governments special looks like that might have been a good way to start on day one. Envoy to ukraine. It just made sense in terms of he resigned that job right after setting the stage for what the he was first summoned to testify to the impeachment. Whole country was going to hes going to testify publicly today afternoon alongside tim learn. As those hearings would go on and on through the late spring morrison, whos an acolyte of and into the summer those john bolton, recently fired as hearings would lay the National Security adviser. Groundwork for the president s morrison is another senior resignation the following year. National Security Council official who has responsibility for russia. But they brought on the Office Manager for the campaign at the then wednesday morning next week very start of the watergate hearings. And the effect of that was to Ambassador Gordon Sondland will introduce someone to the country the calming scent of lavender who was totally normal and who testify. By downy infusions calm. There have been questions was not involved of any of the laundry isnt done criminal behavior at the heart whether or not hed be summoned until its done with downy. For a public hearing given of this scandal. Someone who wasnt even reported problems with some of his closeddoor testimony. A number of other witnesses necessarily a witness to the couldnt rah dictated things he said in his testimony. Core and most serious wrongdoing that led among other things to that congress was investigating in watergate. Sondland submitting a revision by starting with him, by to his testimony, where he said starting with this guy, bob he suddenly recalled things that he previously hadnt recalled when he had been asked about odle, the Watergate Committee them under oath. Essentially calibrated our moral vision for what we were about to learn. But hell be wednesday morning on his own. They started us off with a normal lawabiding person, then wednesday afternoon it will hi honey, we got in early. Be Defense Department ofushl laura cooper who will testify as yeah, and we brought steve and mark. Who hadnt done anything wrong, someone behaving in a rational lawabiding manner. Well as david hale, who i believe is the number 3 official in the u. S. State department. In so doing, through his eyes we then thursday of next week yet could see how abnormal the another public impeachment hearing and again as far as we experience the power of sanctuary president s behavior was and ho. Know this one will feature a at the lincoln wish list sales event. Solo witness, dr. Fiona hill, sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, whose deposition transcript honestly read like a spy zero due at signing, and a complimentary first months payment. Thriller. She before tim morrison was the top russia official on the National Security council. Shes also just a veteran National Security official in washington who served multiple president s. So all told in terms of what we understand of this schedule, that means were looking at seven different public impeachment hearings that are now scheduled just between tomorrow and the end of next week. And again, some of them will be broken down into two sessions per day. But when things kick off tomorrow, i do think that were going to see a little bit of a at least a conceptual parallel between how the billions of problems. Watergate hearings started back dry mouth . Parched mouth . Cotton mouth . In 1973 and how these hearings theres a therabreath for you. Are starting tomorrow. Not because, you know, either of therabreath oral rinse and lozenges. The witnesses were going to hear from tomorrow is the office help relieve dry mouth manager, right . Using natural enzymes to soothe and moisturize. Neither of these witnesses is so you can. Robert odle jr. And his, you breathe easy, know, dads suit sitting in the theres therabreath at walmart. Back of the room and making his way down and holding the pointer and no, i didnt usually shred stuff. I dont think were going to recognize mr. Odle in the characters we see tomorrow as these witnesses. But with both george kent and bill taylor, the guys you are going to hear from tomorrow, you that couldllow hackers devices into your home. Ys and like all doors, do have this sort of same theyre safer when locked. Thats why you need xfinity xfi. Dynamic at work that you had at the start of the watergate with the xfi gateway, devices connected to your homes wifi are protected. Hearings, which is that these public impeachment hearings are going to start with people who which helps keep people outside from accessing your passwords, can attest to what normal is. Credit cards and cameras. And people inside from accidentally visiting sites that arent secure. Its going to start with people who know how things are done and if someone trys well let you know. Normally in the u. S. Government and in u. S. Foreign policy, who they know how normal policy xfi advanced security. Disputes arise and are resolved. And they know what u. S. Policy if its connected, its protected. Call, click, or visit a store today. Is towards ukraine and how its carried out. Theyre both super high level subject Matter Experts in this area of the world in which they were both working for the state department. Which means they know how things are supposed to go. They know how the u. S. Government is supposed to work. And they understand ukraine. They know the importance of those normal ways of doing so you were employed on things being abandoned. They know the importance of our relationship with this country, january 21st, 1969, and ukraine, being perverted for continued to be employed until some selfserving, improper and march 14 of this year, is that correct . Thats correct. Mr. Butterfield, are you possibly illegal purpose by the aware of the installation of any president and people who he listening devices in the oval office of the president . Directed to act on his behalf. So they get not only what went wrong but what the stakes were of it. I was aware of listening these are two officials were going to hear from tomorrow who devices, yes, sir. Understood how things were nixon aide alexander supposed to be and who were butterfields shocking admission almost uniquely qualified to july 1973 that there were recognize what was going wrong and what the cost of that would be, how much this scheme that listening devices inside the the president was carrying out oval office. Was going to screw up something that came a full two months into thats actually very important for our country. The Senate Watergate hearings. They started in may. And we know theyre able to that didnt happy until july. That, of course, is the development that would attest to that because of their ultimately lead to president Richard Nixons resignation the following year. Biographies but also because of their deposition transcripts, from their closed door but again, it was two months in. Testimony. Those transcripts have already the watergate hearings didnt start off with that kind of been released. Fireworks. I mean, heres bill taylor on day one of the watergate staking his claim on that right at the start of his testimony, hearings they started off with the Nixon Campaign office right in his Opening Statement manager. The Washington Post reported, after day one of the hearings, making clear what the stakes are if you like to watch grass here in terms of what the grow, you would have loved the president messed with about opening yesterday of the Senate Select committees hearings on whats supposed to be normal watergate. Here and about how were tomorrow the House Intelligence Committee will kick off its supposed to be behaving toward this crucial ally and why it first day of public impeachment hearings with testimony from the matters that somebody might have messed that up for their own top u. S. Diplomat in ukraine and purposes. The top career official at the taylor says, at the outset id like to convey several key points. First, ukraine is a strategic state department with partner of the United States, responsibility for that part of the world. Both of them saw up close the important for the security of impact of President Trump trying our country as well as europe. To pressure ukraine into investigating his domestic ukraine is right at this moment while we sit in this room and political opponents and hanging up u. S. Aid to that country to add to the pressure that they for the last five years under must do so. Armed attack from russia. Joining us now is nbc news president ial historian michael the Security Assistance we beschloss. Provide is crucial to ukraines defense against russian aggression. And more importantly it sends a michael, its great to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us signal to ukrainians and the tonight. My pleasure always, rachel. Russians that we are ukraines let me ask you first to reliable strategic partner. Correct me or put me in better and finally, as the committees context if you think ive laid are now aware, i said on september 9th in a text message to Ambassador Gordon Sondland that out poorly in terms of the way the way watergate hearings started. No, i think youre absolutely that the United States right. And what they were trying to do withholding Security Assistance to ukraine in exchange for woul in the watergate hearings is courtroom procedure. You start with the Office Manager and he describes how the Nixon Campaign is organized and you sort of work your way up. John dean, who was the star witness, didnt testify until Something Like about five weeks later. And the other thing is unlike tomorrow, before the Watergate Senate hearings began, people may have had suspicions that Richard Nixon was at the center of the coverup, but they could not know that for sure. Nor could they know as you were saying a moment ago the fact that Richard Nixon was taping most of his private conversations, which would completely alter the outcome of the case. Michael, one of the things i learned tonight looking at that old news footage of the way the first day of the hearings were covered in watergate was that at least according to the white house Richard Nixon didnt watch. That he didnt have a tv set up in the part of the white house where he was spending his time at the time the hearings were on. The white house made clear, went out of their way to say he was working on much more important things and wasnt going to be spending time engaged in this watergate circus. Right. I wonder if look back on that if historians feel like the Nixon Administration was sort of out of sync or not paying close enough attention to recognize the impact those hearings were i think thats right. Although nixon probably watched a little bit more than people were claiming. He was trying to suggest that he was not being affected and even in support of that theory it was mentioned that charles dugaul lechlt did not have a telephone in his office in paris and so nixon was sort of emlitting de gaulle by keeping his distance from the television. But thats exactly right. Nixon had no idea these hearings would move Public Opinion as much as it did. But as you were suggesting it took a while because the Senate Watergate hearings, which were not impeachment hearings. Those were an investigation. Those began 15 months before nixon finally resigned. What were talking about now is a period thats about to be much more sped up. Michael, to that point, one of things youve raised in the past in terms of trying to find some guidance in history here, the unusual thing about these impeachment proceedings is theyre happening before the president s reelection effort rather than happening in a secondterm, which we saw with both clinton and nixon. Now, part of the reason for that is situation specific. I mean, what the house believes they found here was an effort by President Trump to cheat in the forthcoming election, to engage a foreign power to illegally intervene to benefit him and his campaign. And so that put some urgency on trying to hold him accountable for that before that election takes place. I wonder how youre thinking about that though in how that dynamic might play differently in the trump impeachment than the others given that the Reelection Campaign looms. Yes, well i think its going to be more super heated, more divided atmosphere even than it was at the beginning of watergate, which became even more so. Nbc news president ial historian Michael Beschloss. Michael, it is always good to see you. This is a sort of rivetingly historic time. I know well not talking to you a lot networks few days. Fascinating. Thank you so much. Much more to get to. Stay with us. 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Rick gates also testified today he witnessed a phone call between trump and roger stone about a forthcoming document dump from wikileaks. And that sure makes it seem like the president may have lied in his written testimony to Robert Mueller when he told mueller in writing that he never talked to roger stone about that subject. So those headlines from the testimony are bad, right . Particularly as the public impeachment proceedings are about to start tomorrow. But the testimony itself is just even beyond those headlines, its just deadly. I just want to read you this. We just got in the transcript from todays trial. Check this out. Prosecutor, quote, do you recall, sir, that on june 14th, 2016, the Democratic National committee announced it had been hacked by the russian government . Rick gates, yes, i do. Question. And did you have conversations with Senior Leadership of the Trump Campaign regarding the dncs announcement . Answer, we did. Question, what was the campaigns attitude toward the dncs announcement it had been hacked by the russian government . Answer, we believed that if information were to come out that based on what we were told that information might be about there were a number of us that felt that it would give our campaign a leg up. Mr. Stone indicated that he wanted to reach out to Jared Kushner and political director jim murphy to debrief them on the developments of the dnc announcement. Question, on july were there any brainstorming sessions held at that point . Answer, oh, yes. Prior to july there were brainstorming sessions on the idea of if the information was leaked what would the campaigns say and respond. And then once wikileaks did release the hacked material, question, what was the campaigns attitude toward the release . Answer, the fact that the information had come out, the campaign was in a state of happiness. When the Trump Campaign heard that specifically the russian government had hacked the Democratic Party, they thought that was great for them. They thought they could definitely use that to their advantage. They then held brainstorming sessions about how theyd plan to use this stuff that had been hacked and stolen by the russian government. And when the material hacked by the russian government was indeed actually released, which they say they had months of warning about, the campaign was whats the phrase, in a state of happiness. Public impeachment hearings start tomorrow over the president s efforts to use a Foreign Government to help him win the next election. Todays courtroom drama in the roger stone case a timely reminder about the first time he did exactly that. Joining us now is chuck rosenberg, former u. S. Attorney from the Eastern District of virginia. Former senior official at the Justice Department and fbi. Chuck, its great to see you. Thanks for being here. My pleasure. Thank you for having me. I am allergic to roger stone and so i find it hard to talk about him as a character because he so wants to be viewed as a character. But it does seem to me what has ended up being important about this trial is we learned a lot about the Trump Campaign and indeed the president and their interactions around the russian documents that were stolen and the russian efforts to interfere in the election. Of course. Of course theyre in a state of happiness. This is a big deal. The russians hacked into the dnc and d triple c computers and stole stuff that would be helpful to the president well, to then candidate trump and to the campaign. Of course theyre happy about that. In term of the president s, im reluctant to say liability here, but the testimony from rick gates today suggested that when the president told Robert Mueller in his written answers i didnt have a conversation with roger stone about wikileaks, i dont know of anybody in the campaign ever talking to roger stone or anybody else about i can wikileaks let alone about advance knowledge of the timing of those releases, gates is saying i witnessed a conversation between trump and stone where thats exactly what they talked about. Right. But in the president s written responses his lawyers put in a very important caveat. Let me give you two statements to illustrate the point. I have never been a guest on the Rachel Maddow show. Demonstrably false. Youre a witness. Yeah. We could use the tape to prove that i lied. I dont recall ever being a guest on the Rachel Maddow show. Now, prove that false. Thats much tougher. And in the written responses everything is caveated. I think thats a verb. Everything includes the disclaimer i dont recall, to the best of my recollection. And so i dont doubt that the president had those conversations, but youre going to have a hard time proving it because he caveated it with the i dont recall. In terms of the odd sort of news gods joke of a coincidence of the jury deliberations starting in the stone trial just as the impeachment hearings are being con veined for President Trump on the ukraine matter, i have to ask you about this parallel a lot of us in the News Business are drawing between the russian effort to interfere in the 2016 election to benefit President Trump and what we now know in part through the stone trial about the way the Trump Campaign welcomed that. The parallel were drawing between that and what the president was trying to elicit from ukraine for 2020. Do you look at those things and see them as parallel if not equivalent . I look at them as parallel but not perfectly so. For instance, the russian effort started in 2014. We know that. Thats in the mueller report. Thats when the russians tried to get four of their operatives into the United States. Two of them eventually came on false visas. And so that was even before we knew who the candidates would be. In this case its the president soliciting the help. One is russia gifting it to the Trump Campaign, and they appear to be willingly, happily accepting it. But this one is a little bit different. In Broad Strokes its parallel, but the president is going out and soliciting help for his campaign using publicly appropriated military aid for ukraine. Chuck rosenberg, former u. S. Attorney for the Eastern District of virginia, former he senior fbi and senior Justice Department official. A person i will say talking to you about these matters and the way in which you present this information is one of my benchmarks and one of the reasons im very excited that its going to be trained former prosecutors who are conducting the testimony conducting the questioning tomorrow. Me too. Exactly. I should also tell you that chuck is the host of an awesome msnbc pod katz which is called the oath. This week on the oath chuck sits down with former u. S. Ambassador to mexico Roberta Jacobson who honestly is a force of nature. Chuck, i really prior being here, my friend. Thanks a lot. Speak with you soon. Well be right back. Soon. Well be right back. I support what yall doing. It was self defense. Get on the ground why is he under arrest . [yelling ] [ gunshots ] power to the people. Im tired of playing it safe. I want to ride or die. Yall really gave us something to believe in. Let. Them. Go police thank you for this journey. No matter how it ends. Whether youre or here on a wifi hotspot. Xfinity mobile has more coverage to keep you connected to what matters most. Thats because its the only Wireless Network that automatically connects you to millions of secure wifi hotspots and the best lte everywhere else. Switch now and see how you could save up to 400 a year. And get 50 off when you buy any new lg phone. Xfinity mobile. Click, call or visit a store today. This is my favorite kind of breaking news. At the very top of the show tonight i was kvelling about how nbc covered the first day of the watergate hearings in 1973, specifically this title sequence that was the leadin to the live nbc news special report for the first day of the watergate hearings in 73. And i kvelled about this for obvious reasons. Nbc news special report. Watergate, senate hearings. So i was like we are definitely taking that special report theme song from 1973 because the Rachel Maddow show needs more timpani. Because you are all the best viewers in the world i am now informed and absolutely convinced that that is a berlioz symphony. That is frafrom symphony fantastique composed in 1830. And heres the thing. Because youre the best viewers in the world i almost cant believe nbc was this on the nose with its music choice that day. But twabtz just symphony fantastique but the music nbc used as the leadin to the impeachment hearings in may 1973 was specifically from the Fourth Movement of that symphony which had a title. The title was march to the scaffold. Thank you Rachel Maddow viewers for knowing your french romantic composers. What would we do without you . Whu hi honey, we got in early. Yeah, and we brought steve and mark. Experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. Sign and drive off in a nc and a complimentary first months payment. Darrells family uses gain flings now so their laundry smells more amazing than ever. [woman] isnt that the dogs towel . Hey, me towel su towel. More gain scent plus oxi boost and febreze in every gain fling. Of millions of americans during the recession. So, my wife kat and i took action. We started a Nonprofit Community bank with a simple theory give people a fair deal and real economic power. Invest in the community, in businesses owned by women and people of color, in affordable housing. The difference between words and actions matters. Thats a lesson politicians in washington could use right now. Im tom steyer, and i approve this message. Tomorrow starting at 9 00 a. M. Eastern xwrooin williams and Nicolle Wallace will anchor msnbcs live coverage of the impeachment hearings. If you cant get to a tv but you can get toon internet connected device you should know the hearing will also be livestreamed at nbcnews. Com. Today obviously a historic day. The president himself the subject of those impeachment hearings. What will he be up to on his big day . Well, hell be welcoming the authoritarian leader of turkey, president erdogan, to an Oval Office Meeting followed by a joint press conference. Well recall that the last time President Trump talked with erdogan he immediately abandoned our kurdish allies. The last time erdogan visited the United States, you might remember that his Security Team beat up a bunch of american protesters, here in the United States. So basically anything could happen tomorrow. Get a good nights sleep. Now its time for the last word where ari melber is in for lawrence. Good evening. To quote rachel on i know we have to because now we know there are going to be days of hearings. Tomorrow, and end of next week but im already too excited to sleep for any of it. In aev sense of the word well be watching. In for