He left the Campaign Amid some startling news reports that he had secretly been paid millions of dollars off the books by the Ukrainian Government. Now Paul Manafort insisted that there was nothing wrong with the way he had been paid in that country for his totally normal Political Consulting work, but it was awkward for a u. S. President ial candidate to have his Campaign Chairman turn out to be secretly on the payroll of a prorussian Foreign Government that had recently been deposed in a popular uprising. So Paul Manafort left the Campaign Amid those reports. And actually, he left the campaign under circumstances that are still not particularly clear, especially on the financial front. But if you widen the aperture on that moment in american political history, that moment in american president ial campaign history, it seems clear that that moment was not just awkward for Paul Manafort and for the Trump Campaign, it was also if you wind it out just a little bit, you can see that that was also a very awkward moment for the country that had apparently secretly been paying Paul Manafort off the books. Paul manaforts client in ukraine was a proputin dictator who he basically remade in his own image. The picture on the left here is yanukovych before Paul Manafort. The picture in the middle is yanukovych after Paul Manafort like loaned him all his suits and his haircut. But come 2014, Paul Manaforts extreme makeover grecian formula magic was no longer enough to keep yanukovych in power, and ukrainians revolted against him. They overthrow his government, and he fled, naturally, to make where he remains today under the protection of Vladimir Putins government. So yanukovych got ousted. The new government that took over thereafter came to power in these really dramatic circumstances, right . Amid these massive protests in the streets and the shifting and uncertain loyalties of the police and the military and the new government ended up taking over the running of that country in dramatic circumstances. Its no small matter to take overrunning a country when it had previously been run by a putinsupporting dictator and youre a country that has a very big, long border with russia. The new government in fact also took over what would soon be a war with russia. But at the same time, amid all of that, the new government also decided that it was a priority for them to come to terms with what had happened under the previous regime, with what had happened under the dictator who they deposed. They decided that one of their priorities as a new government would be to understand, to grapple with the looting, the corruption, the wholesale cheating and theft of state assets which it all happened under manaforts guide. And of course you remember the sort of scary and amazing footage of the long uprising that ultimately ousted manaforts guy. But the images from that time that i have found even more indelible since that all happened is the footage not just from the uprising, but the footage we got from the aftermath. After manaforts guy, after yanukovych fled to russia, because the aftermath footage was very moving i think in a civicminded sense. We ended up with this footage of ukrainians, regular people by the thousands streaming into the properties and the palaces that vict vic Viktor Yanukovych had kept locked up so the people couldnt see what he was stealing. After he was gone, after he fled to russia, the ukrainian people opened up the gates and went in to see for themselves. And they were not there to loot the place, which you might expect in those circumstances. They went in instead to find out and document what this guy had done with their countrys wealth. And thats how we learned about his private zoo and his antique car museum and his goldplated golf clubs. Does that even make for good golfing . Thats how we learned he had a fake spanish galleon floating restaurant just for himself. And there is something amazing about the footage of regular people trying to figure out what all this stuff is and what to make of the fact that, yeah, he really did have a gold toilet. Look at the creepy gold toilet feet. Look at that. Why does a toilet need feet at all . Why do they have to be gold . Its sort of fascinating to see regular people just taking this in, realizing wow, this is what he had been stealing all of our money for was to build himself a place like this with stuff like this. And the ukrainian people did not tear the place apart. They didnt loot it. They opened it up to show everyone and invited in news crews so the world could see what this guy had done. And then they took it further. They dove into his private lake that he had dug for his private floating restaurant. And they pulled out the papers that had been sunk there. They poked through the fireplaces and ash piles to collect the scraps that manaforts guy had tried to destroy before he fled in the dead of night back to russia. They salvaged all the documents they could to try to piece them all back together. Look at the torn and burnt shreds of documents. Theyre laying them out to dry to try to piece them back together so they can tell the truth about this corrupt proputin kleptocracy that they had just risen up as a people against. And end it. And, you know, things in ukraine have not worked out perfectly. They have not necessarily worked out great. Change is hard. But in that moment, that human endeavor to try to make sure the truth did not get disappeared, that moment where they decided you know what . People need to know, this needs to be preserved for historical accuracy. There has to be accountability for what happened here. We cant just let this all go. It was movinging right . Just as a sober, constructive practical of how to love your country in difficult times, it was moving. Well, as part of that effort, the new government that took over in ukraine after this guy was run out of the country and fled back to moscow, they established a new job in the new government. They established a special prosecutor to make use of all that salvaged documentation. To piece it all together. To make sure that the people who did what they did didnt get away with it. They established a special prosecutor to investigate and pursue criminal charges against anybody who was part of the corruption and the selling out of that country under manaforts guide, under yanukovych. Well, amid the 3,000 or so cases that were eventually opened by that anticorruption prosecutor, four of those cases were about trump Campaign Chairman Paul Manafort and his work in ukraine. Paul manafort, who had resigned from trumps Campaign Amid scandalous reporting here about the secret payments of millions of dollars that he got out of ukraine. Paul manafort of course has since been charged in this country with multiple felonies, mostly related to allegedly to him allegedly laundering millions of dollars that he got out of that country, and him allegedly cooking up more or less elaborate schemes involving offshore banks and Shell Companies to try to evade paying taxes on that income. So, for example, ukrainian documents from the old regime he worked for, those documents show big payments for who knows what to a Company Called global highway limited. And again, thats of concern to the ukrainians in this new government who are trying to figure out what happened to all the money that was looted from their country . Because who knows what that payment was supposedly for. But it was to global highway limited. Well, that company name turns up, again, in the special counsels indictment of Paul Manafort. Because the ukrainians can see money going into that country, but what the special counsels office was able to document was where the money from that company went. That same company, global highway limited turned up in the indictment against Paul Manafort here because it was used to pay some of Paul Manaforts own luxurious lifestyle bills. It paid manaforts bills at businesses where he bought lots of fancy suits and also antiques. Money laundering is often more complex than this. But in this case it looks pretty simple. Ukraine paid company. Company buys suits and ties and clocks or whatever for Paul Manafort. Fbi raids Paul Manaforts house. They take the suits and ties and clocks or whatever, because they figured out where the money came from to pay for those things. And according to that indictment, that money turns up nowhere as Paul Manaforts taxable income from his legitimate overseas consulting company. So as moneylaundering cases go, its not that complicated. As tax evasion cases go, its not that complicated. And it all leads back to ukraine. And manaforts ukraine stuff is embarrassing and awkward enough for him that when it was first revealed in the american press, it got him fired off the Trump Campaign. But it remains of interest to prosecutors here in this country because of moneylaundering and tax evasion, and it remains of interest to prosecutors in ukraine because ukraine as a country and as a new post yanukovych government is trying to figure out what happened to all that money, what happened to their countrys wealth when manaforts guy was in charge and stealing all the money. Sure, a lot of it went to buy ostriches and toilets with gold feet. But a lot of it went to Paul Manafort too. So ukraine has been trying to track that down. And this is the point in the story where the music changes and gets all menacing and dark. Because the New York Times has just broken a really important story on this subject today. Andrew cramer in the New York Times today reports that the four investigations into Paul Manafort that had been opened by prosecutors in ukraine over manaforts alleged involvement in the handoverfist corruption of the government he worked for there, those four open investigations into Paul Manafort, which apparently were quite neatly do ll lly dovetail the special counsels work in this country and the spountss prosecution of Paul Manafort in this country, those four cases in the ukraine have just been spiked. Theyre dead. On orders. Quote, in the United States paul j. Manafort is facing prosecution on charges of moneylaundering and financial fraud stemming from his decade of work for a prorussian Political Party in ukraine. But in ukraine, four cases involving mr. Manafort have been effectively frozen by ukraines chief prosecutor. Quote, keenly aware of President Trumps distaste for the investigation by the special Counsel Robert Mueller into possible collusion between russia and his campaign, some lawmakers say the manafort cases now are, quote, just too sensitive. The decision to halt the investigations by an anticorruption prosecutor was handed down at a delicate moment for ukraine as the Trump Administration was finalizing plans to sell that country sophisticated antitank missiles called javelins. The state department issued an export license for the javelin missiles on december 22nd. On march 1, the pentagon announced the final approval for the sale of the javelins and their launching units. The order to halt investigations into mr. Manafort came very soon thereafter, in early april. A ukrainian member of parliament readily acknowledged to the times that the intention behind blocking the manafort investigations, quote, is obvious. In every possible way, we will avoid irritating the top american officials, he said. Quote, the order issued in april isolated the four manafort investigations. Cases were not technically closed, according to a statement from the prosecutor generals office, but the order does block the anticorruption prosecutor who was pursuing the cases for issuing subpoenas for any evidence or from interviewing any witnesses. The anticorruption prosecutor said in an interview with the times, kwoes, we have no authority to continue our investigation. Before the order came down to freeze the case, the anticorruption prosecutor investigating manafort says that he had reached out to the special counsels office in the u. S. To try to formalize cooperation between muellers team and the ukrainians running their investigations into manafort. That anticorruption prosecutor now says since he has lost the authority to investigate manafo manafort, that offer to cooperate is now, quote, moot. So bottom line for us here in this country, does Robert Mueller, does the special counsels Office Actually need these prosecutors in ukraine in order to nail Paul Manafort to the wall . Judging from their progress, in their cases against him and two federal jurisdictions so far, probably not. Probably not. It looks like theyre doing fine. But we now know flatout based on this remarkable new report from Andrew Cramer in the New York Times today that the government in this other country spiked those active investigations and effectively spiked the offer for their prosecutors to cooperate with mueller specifically to curry favor with donald trump and the u. S. Government. Because they wouldnt want to help mueller. That might make trump mad. We also know that when they made that decision to drop those prosecutions in ukraine, the president and the u. S. Government changed their longstanding position on whether or not to sell that country antitank weapons. They decide oh, you know what . Actually, despite our previous opposition, were going to go ahead and sell you those weapons. So did the u. S. Government, did the Trump White House ask for that particular favor from ukraine . Did the Trump White House, did President Trump, did the Trump Administration say hey, ukraine, stop helping mueller. Maybe youll get your missiles . I dont know. That seems nuts, right . But everything does seem nuts now. And so its probably at least time to ask so we can at least get an answer on the record now to compare with whatever the later answer will be down the road once we get further reporting that explains the situation. Spiking the cooperation with mueller. Thats one thing there is a bigger revelation, though, in this new reporting today that has even bigger implications for what the president here is about to face here in this country next, and thats our next story. Stay with us. S, bipolar i disorder can make you feel unstoppable. But mania, such as unusual changes in your mood, activity or energy levels, can leave you on shaky ground. Help take control by asking about your treatment options. Vraylar is approved for the acute treatment of manic or mixed episodes of bipolar i disorder in adults. Clinical studies showed that vraylar reduced overall manic symptoms. Vraylar should not be used in elderly patients with dementia due to increased risk of death or stroke. Call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, which may mean a lifethreatening reaction, or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be permanent. Side effects may not appear for several weeks. High cholesterol and weight gain; high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death; decreased white blood cells, which can be fatal; dizziness upon standing; falls; seizures; impaired judgment; heat sensitivity; and trouble swallowing may occur. Youre more than just your bipolar i. Ask your doctor about vraylar. 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At this point, Paul Manafort was still the president Trump Campaign chair. But ken vogel got this incredible scoop about manaforts man in kiev. It was essentially a profile of the guy who ran manaforts business with him in ukraine. And there is a ton thats interesting in this story. It has stood up remarkably well over time. But the big revelation in the piece, man in kiev, his righthand man in his ukraine business, his closest associate for all that political work in ukraine that ultimately brought him so much trouble, the big reveal in that piece was that that guy had been Russian Military intelligence. Quote, manaforts protege Konstantin Kilimnik was a russian linguist with a background of russian intelligence. Kilimnik, a short man who goes by costilla attended a soviet military school where he learned to speak english, and swedish. He joined the russian army as a translator, work that closely aligned him with the russian intelligence services. In 1995 he landed a job in the Moscow Office of a u. S. Group called the u. S. International ruin institute. He did not hide his past from his new employer. When asked how he learned to speak such fluent english, he responded, quote, Russian Military intelligence. It was like kostia, the guy from the gru. Thats how we all talked about him, said a political operative who worked in moscow at the time. Kotia from the gru was eventually fired from the Republican International institute because he secretly started moonlighting for Paul Manafort. When he eventually became a fulltime Paul Manafort guy, though, that meant that Paul Manafort was running his business overseas with a guy from Russian Military intelligence, with kostia from the gru, which is remarkable, right . Because Paul Manafort at this point was the chairman of the donald trump for President Campaign that profile from ken vogel before the election back in august of 2016, that was the first we learned about kostia from the gru, this guy Konstantin Kilimnik. Since then he has turned up over and over again. We learned that Paul Manafort for the first time during the Trump Campaign at the Republican National convention, he met with kilimnik. Kilimnik came to the u. S. And met with manafort during the campaign, during the rnc. After that meeting, kilimnik went home and bragged about having been involved in that mysterious platform change at the republican convention, where the republicans adopted really pro russia language in the Republican Party national platform. And no could really figure out why it happened or why the Trump Campaign was pursuing it. That change to the Party Platform is still mysterious. Robert mueller is interested in that matter and wants to request the president about it. A guy from Russian Military intelligence going home and bragging that he is the one who pulled that off . Yeah, tell me more. Then the Washington Post and the atlantic magazine obtained remarkable email changes between Paul Manafort and Konstantin Kilimnik from during the campaign when Paul Manafort was Trumps Campaign chair. These exchanges are how we learned that Trumps Campaign chair during the campaign wasnt just communicating with kilimnik, this guy with the Russian Military intelligence background. He and kilimnik were communicating with a russian e oligarch close po vladimir putin. Kilimnik was offering this oligarch private briefings on the Trump Campaign. Kilimnik told manafort while manafort was running the Trump Campaign that this oligarch guy would most likely be looking for ways to reach out to you pretty soon, understanding all the time sensitivity. One week after trump accepted the republican nomination on july 29th, 2016, kilimnik emailed Paul Manafort again explaining that he just had long meeting with that Russian Oligarch on Paul Manaforts behalf. Quote, we spent about five hours talking about his story. And have i several important messages from him to you. He asked me to go and brief you on our conversation. I said i have to run it by you first, but in principle im prepared to do it, provided that he buys me a ticket. It has to do about the future of his country, meaning russia. And is quite interesting. So if you are not absolutely against the concept, please let me know which dates and places will work, even next week, i can come and see you. And Paul Manafort responds to that note, quote, tuesday is best. And then indeed tuesday there is Konstantin Kilimnik in new york city. Specifically at Jared Kushners family building, 666 fifth avenue, he and manafort at a cigar bar and delivering whatever the Russian Oligarchs messages were for trumps Campaign Chairman. It has to do about the future of his country. And the future of ours presumably. Two weeks later, ken vogel ran his Konstantin Kilimnik profile in politico. Com. The very next day manafort resigned from the Trump Campaign. When we got the sentencing of the surprise character in the Mueller Investigation, alexa cappa vander zwaan, he gets convicted. He will soon go to prison for lying to prosecutors. One of the things he lied about was his contact with konstantin kilimn kilimnik. The special counsels office gave us more detail on kilimnik in court, asserting in the alexa cappa van der zwaan case, that not only is Konstantin Kilimnik known to have a Previous Association with Russian Military intelligence, but in 2016, the fbi, still quote assessed him to have ties to a russian intelligence service. So he is still Russian Military intelligence. In court documents, the special counsels office has also asserted that rick gates, who is cooperating with muellers investigation, he was aware of kilimniks collection to Russian Military intelligence, and he talked about it openly as he was referring kilimnik to communicate with alexa cappa van der zwaan, right up until the president ial election. So now here is where we are. This week has been turned upside down by a leak from trumps legal team of questions that mueller wants to put to the president. One of the most provocative questions in the whole list is muellers team wants to ask the president what knowledge do you have of any outreach by your campaign, including by Paul Manafort to russia about potential assistance to the campaign. Well, if Paul Manafort was reaching out to russia during the campaign, asking russia to give the Trump Campaign assistance, it would have been very easy for him to do so through his closest business relationship on earth, which is with a guy who is Russian Military intelligence. As of 2016. I mean, if there is a Paul Manafort russia collusion question, Paul Manaforts relationship with Konstantin Kilimnik is the key that unlocks that door. It would seem that it has to be. Well, thats the other thing we learned today in this new report from Andrew Cramer at the New York Times. As part of a newly reported effort to try to keep the Trump Administration happy, the government of ukraine did force their anticorruption prosecutor to drop his four investigations into Paul Manafort. They also made their anticorruption prosecutor come back on his offer, rescind his offer to cooperate with the special counsels office, Robert Mueller and his special counsel office. But the government of ukraine has also let Konstantin Kilimnik flee to russia. They have allowed kilimnik to, quote, leave for russia, putting him out of reach for questioning. The anticorruption prosecutors in ukraine had reportedly been investing Konstantin Kilimnik for espionage. He had definitely been part of their four open Corruption Cases into Paul Manafort since he was Paul Manaforts guy in ukraine. But they let him go. They let him go to russia, where mueller definitely will not be able to get to him. And ukrainian lawmakers are explaining they did this to try to keep President Trump happy. So there is a lot going on today. The president got new russia lawyers today. He fired ty cobb who has been one of his russia lawyers from the very beginning. The president is making even more explicit threats today to the Justice Department and their ability to continue independently with this investigation in this country. And you see them making those threats as donald trump, and were all kind of inured to it, this is the what he is like, this is how he talks, this is how he thinks, this this is what he wants. He is not just making those threats as donald trump. He is making those threats as president. And the american presidency has global reach. And the rule of law is beloved everywhere. But it is only strong in certain places at certain times, depending on what people are willing to stand up for. Joining us now is ken vogel, political reporter for the New York Times who wrote that blockbuster profile of Paul Manafort and his ties to Konstantin Kilimnik in ukraine for politico. Com before the election back in 2016. Thanks for being with us tonight. I know i keep asking you to come back and talk about this subject that you started reporting on a long time ago. I really appreciate your time. Yeah, its great to be with you, rachel. So ukrainian prosecutors have apparently allowed Konstantin Kilimnik to leave ukraine to go to russia where he is described as out of reach for the Mueller Investigation or any other congressional investigators who might be looking into this matter. That your understanding, that he is effectively out of reach, that he has not been cooperating with or a witness for any of the investigations thus far, including mueller . He certainly is physically out of reach. And this decision to rescind the offer to cooperate is a big deal, particularly when it comes to Konstantin Kilimnik, because ukrainians could have questioned him whereas muellers team could not. Even in the crane he would have been out of reach without the cooperation of the Ukrainian Government and ukrainian prosecutors. Now, if he came to the u. S. , of course muellers team could question him. But at this point, with his name or with him being referred to in so many of these Court Filings, it seems highly unlikely that he would do that. So what they can do, what muellers team can do, and what we have seen some evidence that they may have done is continue to monitor Konstantin Kilimniks communications. We saw some evidence of that in a filing late last year where muellers team was accusing Paul Manafort of breaking essentially the gag order around the case by working with Konstantin Kilimnik over email to write an oped, ghost write an oped for a ukrainian politician to run in a newspaper in kiev. And so we saw that even as late of last year, months after Paul Manafort was under indictment, months after we had seen some suggestion that muellers team believed that Konstantin Kilimnik was had ties to russian intelligence, even then manafort continued to communicate with Konstantin Kilimnik that shows you how close the two were, and also potentially how integral to sort of cracking this case or putting pieces together of the puzzle Konstantin Kilimnik could have been. Could still be. And thats a fascinating point, that he may be physically out of reach in terms of accessing him, but youre right. The Court Filings in the manafort case show that at least his communications have been within reach. And let me just ask your reaction, ken, to the declaration in the manafort case by muellers prosecutors that they assess that kilimnik didnt just have historical ties to Russian Military intelligence, or the kind that you first reported back in 2016, that he used to tell people that thats where he developed his language skills, that thats how he sort of explained where he came from when he was first working in american circles in the 1990s. But theyre saying they assess him to have russian intelligence ties to be tied to Russian Intelligence Agency as recently as 2016. Whats your reaction to that . I mean, that was quite revelatory, rachel, because we had done extensive reporting on Konstantin Kilimnik, including with stringers in kiev who knew him and who had interacted with him over the years. And it was always kind of a mystery. How much of this is braggadocio . Its sort of like the roger stone syndrome. You keep building yourself up and hey, i got ties to russian intelligence or sort of suggesting you might have some in that would help them because of your connections to russian intelligence. And it sort of builds up a sort of mythology around it. You dont know how much of it is real and how much is not. So you were kind of weighing maybe critics of his who are saying he continued to have ties to russian intelligence versus defenders of his who are saying oh, no thats sort of him bragging and exaggerating his capabilities. And now you have Robert Mueller who has proven himself to be quite an authority on sort of assessing these types of ties saying that no, in fact not only did Konstantin Kilimnik have these connections to russian intelligence, he still had them during the 2016 president ial campaign when he continued to communicate with the chairman of Donald Trumps president ial campaign. Thats a big deal. It is indeed. Ken vogel, political reporter for the New York Times. Ken, thank you, thank you very much. And thank you for doing work good enough to still stand up two years later and be a necessary reference for continuing breaking news. Really appreciate it, my friend. I appreciate being on, rachel. Thanks. All right. All right. Big show tonight. Coming up in a second, were going to try something new, which always makes me a little nervous. But what the heck, one bold attempt. We have a new power strip for this and everything. Last time we tried it, it didnt work. I have high hopes for tonight. We came here for the friends. And we got to know the friends of our friends. Then our old friends from middle school, our mom, our ex and our boss joined forces to wish us happy birthday. Then we discovered our uncle use to play in a band. And realized he was young once too. And we found others just like us. And just like that we felt a little less alone. But then something happened. We had to deal with spam, clickbait, fake news, and data misuse. Thats going to change. From now on, facebook will do more to keep you safe and protect your privacy. So we can all get back to what made facebook good in the first place. Friends. Because when this place does what it was built for, we all get a little closer. You wont find relief here. Congestion and pressure . Go to the pharmacy counter for powerful claritind. While the leading allergy spray relieves 6 symptoms. Claritind relieves 8, including sinus congestion and pressure. Claritind relieves more. Weve been having technical problems. There is more personnel turnover in this president ial administration than there has been in any other u. S. Administration ever, by a mile. And its turning out to be an about the thing about this presidency, how fast they fling people out into the night. To try to keep track of the people getting fired and quit, we have tried to keep a rung tally of whose gone, whos fired, whose quit. But our bandwidths is only so wide, and the wall is full enough now that it keeps collapsing and blacking out every time we do this. That was a week or so ago. As of tonight were back to this. There has been more people who quit or have been fired. We need to put six more names up here. And i dont know where we can go if were going to keep this thing legible and not make it fritz out again like the last time we did the wall. So they have told me in the control room we did not rehearse this. Which is why i was checking which way i turned. They told me in the control room we only have one more option for how to find more space up here. And they sort of want to debut it tonight. I have not seen how this looks. Are you ready . One, two, three. Where are they going to put them . Oh we can go around the corner. I thought they were going to put them in between the columns. Look. New wall. All right. And its holding so far. Look at all the room ha ha on thursday, in statement about his resignation and the bureau has declined comment. When the head of your agency inexplicably leaves you do actually have to Say Something about that. But they havent said anything. Still no word from the administration. But today tpm reports that the head of the bureau of Indian Affairs resigned after he was hit with allegations of intimidating and hostile behavior toward one employee in particular, and some people think there may be tapes of the intimidation incident in question. So again, no word from the administration about it. But he is now gone. Also out, yes its working. A director of special projects in the White House Counsels Office. His name is michael roman, and before he went to work this the Trump White House, he was for many years the head of Opposition Research for the Koch Brothers political operation. So this means for many months we now know there has been an Oppo Research guy working in the white house, specificy in the White House Counsels Office, which is a little weird. Why does the White House Counsels Office need an oppo guy . Its also weird that they never formally announced he was hired in the first place. We only found out about it thanks to a propublica investigation months after he was hired. Now that he was gone, we were never formally told he arrived. We do know on his way out, they gave him a snazzy pair of white house cuff links. We know that because he tweeted it. So thats the story of michael roman. Also, boom, yes im so excited. We have so much space the head of i. C. E. Is retiring, he was appointed in november. He is gone now, which is quick. We also need to add albert kelly to this wall, known to his friends as kel, epa Senior Adviser on the Superfund Program. Just before albert kelly was banned for life from the banking drink by the fdic banned for life, wow just before that, scott pruitt asked him to come to the epa with him to run the Superfund Program. Why is that weird . Its a fund. Scott pruitt thinks he is super. Why not . The details are a little sketchy on what exactly mr. Kelly did to get banned from banking for life and how that qualified him to run the Superfund Program in the epa, but now he too has resigned from the Trump Administration. So we can put him on the wall. The fifth new name is also a scott pruitt epa guy, the chief of security at Scott Pruitts epa, inner nino perrotta. He was the driving force behind the epas massive security expenditures under pruitt, including the soundproof booth soundproof booth he put in his office that is definitely not a skiff, even though he told congress it was. Nino perrotta was supposed to testify about that today on house members of the oversight committee. Were told he did show up for that testimony. But 24 hours before he showed up for the testimony, he unexpectedly retired, which isnt sketchy at all. And that brings us to the big fish. Today the Trump Administration also lost ty cobb, the white house employed lawyer, not a private lawyer working for the president , but a lawyer working for the white house. So weve been paying his salary. He has been running point for the white house on all things related to the russia investigation. Mr. Cobb told the New York Times that he told the president weeks ago that he was going to retire. Okay, maybe. But he didnt mention his impending retirement today. In a long interview he did with abc news just this morning. That interview was recorded two hours before the times story broke about ty cobb leaving. He didnt mention he was on his way out in that entire interview. We will have more on that coming up. But i just you know, this i know this is a small thing. But i think we have room now for more people to quit and be fired. Look at all that space. Its totally held the whole time. This is going to take us through the next few days, at least. Maybe a week. This is great. Okay, i never thought id say this, but i found bladder leak underwear thats actually pretty. Surprised . Its called always discreet boutique. It looks and fits like my underwear. I know what youre thinking. How can something this pretty protect . Hidden inside is a super absorbent core that quickly turns liquid to gel. For incredible protection. So i feel protected. And pretty. Always discreet boutique. Now im gonna tell my momma that im a traveller im gonna follow the sun now im gonna tell my momma that im a traveller transitions™ light under control™ searching for answers may feel overwhelming. So start your search with our teams of specialists at Cancer Treatment centers of america. The evolution of cancer care is here. Learn more at cancercenter. Com experts in september, the New York Times published a big story titled this way, Trump Lawyers clash over how much to cooperate with russia inquiry. It contained a whole bunch of juicy details. But ultimately the reason that story is remembered is how the times got that story. The way the times got that was by accident, because a times reporter, ken vogel who we just had on the show this hour, he overheard two of the president s lawyer, ty cobb and john dowd discussing their russia strategy really loudly in public at blt steak, which is a restaurant that is situated right next to the New York Times d. C. Bureau. They were talking about what theyre doing in the case and their strategy about it out loud at an outdoor table without noticing who was sitting next to them, let alone that it was a very famous political reporter for New York Times, which you might have expected if you planned to have lunch at a restaurant right next to the New York Times. Oops. Well, now as of today we know neither of those two Trump Lawyers will be there at the finish line. John dowd left in march. He resigned in march. Today the New York Times is first to report that ty cobb is also out the door. He will be replaced in the white house by emmet flood, who is a lawyer that among other things worked on the bill clinton impeachment case. In a statement, the white house said that mr. Cobbs departure was planned, quote, for several weeks mr. Cobb has been discussing his retirement. Last week he let chief of staff john kelly know that he would retire at the end of this month. Okay. If you say so. But just a couple of hours before that story published, ty cobb gave a long freewheeling interview to an abc news podcast in which he never mentioned his plans to retire later today. It didnt come up. In that podcast interview, mr. Cobb said that President Trump, sitting for an interview with Robert Mueller was not off the table. He said he has Great Respect for Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein who oversees the Mueller Investigation. He called him a dedicated public servant. He also said he likes bob mueller and he thinks bob mueller is just doing his job. He did not sound like man who was to be quit. But apparently we should have seen this as a man who was about to be fired . I know bob and like and respect him. In my view, mueller is doing, you know, what he was assigned to do. I mean he didnt he didnt start the investigation. He got pulled in by rosenstein, and was given an assignment. You know, he had been working that. People can argue about whether or not there is a lot of sprawl. I understand those arguments, but at the same time, again, he didnt he didnt launch into this on his own. He was given an assignment. I think its important that having been a special trial counsel to an independent counsel in the past, i think its important that the Justice Department exercise its oversight in these matter. Ty cobb speaking today just a couple of hours before it was announced that he is out of the white house. He also said that those 49 questions for the president that appeared in the New York Times this week, he said its his view that those did not leak from Robert Muellers team, despite any aspersions to the contrary cast by the president. Do you think that bob mueller leaked the list or his team leaked the list . Oh, absolutely not. I have no doubt that he did not. Who do you think did it . Where would it come from . You know, i dont want to speculate on that. I think its very difficult to see who, if anybody, benefits from the leak of that other than people who have been trying to sabotage the possibility of an interview or generate chaos around here. And that list is that list is too long for me to go through, but im not pointing a finger at anybody. So lots of interesting stuff today from the Top White House lawyer on the russia investigation, ty cobb. But while he was saying all that stuff, zero indication that he was actually packing up his office at this moment and had one foot out the door. Two hours after that interview was recorded, news breengs the noew york times that actually t cobb is gone. Where ty cobb gets back on the phone with the people he recorded the abc podcast with and confirmed then, oh, yeah, he is retiring. He just forgot to mention it t. Mr. Cobb said its a planned rollout, the way you roll out an important retirement. You have someone do a long podcast, and then you let a different news agency break the news two hours later and you call back the podcast and say, oh, yeah, it was planned. Hold that thought. Because life is amazing. So i am hoping for a cure. I want this, to uh, to be a reality. Um, yeah. Im all about my bed. This mattress is dangerously comfortable. When i get in, i literally say, ahh. Introducing the leesa mattress. A better place to sleep. The leesa mattress is designed to provide strong support, relieve pressure and optimize airflow to keep you cool. Today is gonna be great. Read our reviews, then try the leesa mattress in your own home. Order now and get 125 off, plus a free pillow worth 75. And Free Shipping too. Go to buyleesa. Com today. Mom, dad, can we talk . Sure. Whats up son . I cant be your it guy anymore. What . You guys have xfinity. You can do this. Whats a good wifi password, mom . You still have to visit us. I will. No. Make that the password you stillohave toovisit us. Thats a good one. [ chuckles ] download the xfinity my account app and set a password you can easily remember. One more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. Joining us now is Michael Schmidt a pull lizter prize reporter. He broke the news saying that ty cobb was leaving and being replaced with lawyer emmett flood, who helped with president bill clinton. He reported today, mr. Flood is expected to take more of an approach with the investigation, than mr. Cobb did. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. What do you mean . The thing about ty cobb, is his approach was cooperation, cooperation, he took the president at his word that he said he did nothing wrong. And he said, the sooner we give him documents, let people speak with mueller, the sooner the cloud will be lifted and this will be over. This was ty cobb who said at the end of last year, the investigation is going to be over by thanksgiving, kms christmas, new years, et cetera, and here it is may and the investigation is still going on. The way ty cobb left today doesnt seem to have matched the white house explanation for how he left. Ty cobb saying its a planned rollout, the white house saying it was on deck. Mr. Cobb doing a long interview, up until two hours before you posted your story, gave no indication that he was on his way out. Do you have any clearer sense of whether he jumped or if he was pushed . Theres two things. One is that ty cobb is a veteran washington lawyer, hes been around for a long time and he is close to retirement. He likes to spend time in South Carolina and that all sort of fits. What else is going on is don mcgahn, the white House Counsel wanted him out and spearheaded this effort. He thought that ty cobb gave up too much to the special counsel and working with his lawyer, whos good friends with emmett flood, they worked to recruit flood the last year. Mcgahn and flood see things the same way. They think the executive power, the privilege issue should be exerted more and more should be kept away and there should be a more adversarial approach to the investigation. Michael, can i ask you if if you have any clarity on whether or not the president s new legal team, involving Rudy Giuliani, whos been on board for two weeks and mr. Flood whos on board as of today, are they also going to be working on the Michael Cohen case in the Southern District of new york . The two other lawyers brought on board the same day as julgiulia do appear to be working on the cohen case, is this a muelleronly hiring or are they going to represent the president in other things . Theyre still trying to figure it out. Theyre trying to figure out why Rudy Giuliani is there, is he there for an interview, would an interview happen or would he get involved in the new york aspect. The thing about the new york case is they dont know a lot about it. They are very unnerved by it because Michael Cohen and the president will not talk about it, they Wont Disclose what they think is in those documents. And theres not a lot to do. There was the handing over of the materials to make sure Attorney Client privileges were not being violated but at the same time the president s lawyers dont really know whats going on with that investigation, but they are very concerned about it. That is fascinating. Thank you for helping us understand that. Michael schmidt for the New York Times. Thank you, appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Well be right back. Stay with us. [upbeat music] now im gonna tell my momma that im a traveller im gonna follow the sun now im gonna tell my momma that im a traveller transitions™ light under control™ hello. Give me an hour in tanning room 3. Cheers thats confident. But its not kayak confident. Kayak searches hundreds of travel sites to help me plan the best trip. So im more than confident. Forgot me goggles. Kayak. Search one and done. 3 toddlers wont stop him. And neither will lower back pain. Because at a dr. Scholls kiosk he got a recommendation for our custom fit orthotic to relieve his foot, knee, or lower back pain, from being on his feet. Dr. Scholls. Born to move. So a couple of pieces of information have broken in the last couple minutes. First of all Michael Schmidt told us, a New York Times reporter with a ton of scoops recently, i have not seen this anywhere else, that the president s lawyers, including Rudy Giuliani and the rest of the russia legal team are in Michael Schmidts team unnerved by the Michael Cohen case because neither Michael Cohen nor President Trump will tell trumps own lawyers what is in the documents that were seized from Michael Cohens home and office that pertain to the president. Trump and cohen must know but theyre not telling trumps own lawyers about it, mr. Schmidt breaking the news here that the lawyers are concerned about that matter and do not know what to make about it. Theres also news that broke in the last few minutes about the president and the payment to stormy daniels. Im going to leave you to launder odonnell for this one. That does it for
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