Lot of reasons. First and foremost, the news was, wow, hey, finally somebody said yes, right . The president has had a lot of trouble filling out his russia legal team. By our latest count based on public reporting, best as we can tell we think the president has asked and been rejected by 12 different lawyers just in the past few weeks. Now, in a normal presidency, even a normal troubled presidency, it would be very unusual for a president to not be able to get anyone he wants to come represent him as a lawyer, right . Its the president of the United States. Its a great honor. You dont say no. It has not gone that way for President Trump, though. He hasnt been able to get any highprofile lawyers to represent him on the russia case. So, that was part of the big Rudy Giuliani news, right . Rudy giuliani is a high profile person. Hes not necessarily a highprofile lawyer. I mean, he is a lawyer, but hes not high profile because of his lawyering these days. But trump did get a yes from him. And frankly when mr. Giuliani was hired he quickly made clear he wasnt exactly planning on spending a lot of time in court on the russia issue. The day he was hired he told cnns dana bash his role on trumps legal team would be, quote, limited. He told her, hey, he knows mueller from back in the day. That should help him bring the russia investigation to a quick conclusion. He said it just, quote, needs a little push. Mr. Giuliani, how soon will you be able to bring this russia investigation to a close . His answer, quote, maybe a couple weeks. Okay. Well, ticktock, then. Should be wrapped up on thursday next week if hes on schedule. Well, tonight we learn that mr. Giuliani has just had his first meeting with special Counsel Robert Mueller and its not over yet. The washington posts robert costa and carol write, quote, the facetoface discussions illustrated how Rudy Giuliani is functioning as trumps chief liaison and lead negotiator with the special counsel. The meeting renewed talks that had largely faltered since the resignation last month of john dowd, a veteran lawyer who had been serving as trumps lead outside attorney on the russia investigation. Both giuliani and mueller were joined at the meeting by members of their teams. They met at muellers office in southwest washington. Giuliani pressed mueller for clarity on when the probe is expected to end. Well, unless Robert Muellers answer was, oh, some time in the next eight days, that would indicate that mr. Giulianis two weeks prediction might have been a little bit off. I should say, though, just as a separate matter as kind of my personal observation here, as part of this excellent new reporting tonight from the washington post, we are now experiencing a whole new round of renewed discussion about whether or not President Trump is eventually going to sit down for an interview with Robert Mueller as part of muellers investigation. Lots of people discussing the newly reported details about the content of those negotiations around the president s potential interview. Trump is now reportedly very resistant to doing an interview. Even though he used to really want to do the interview. Now, his lawyers feel one way about it, his advisors feel another. There has been so much breath expelled on this question of how President Trump feels about the idea of giving an interview to the special counsel. Honestly, you know what . Hes either going to do an interview with mueller or hes not. We will know once it happens, or once they start fighting in court about whether or not the president can be forced to do it. Until then, all of this state of mind reporting about that subject, about who really wants what, and who has what worries and who has what feelings about it, as best as we can tell, all of that reporting is based on effort by the people involved in these negotiations somehow to spin the negotiations by changing Public Perceptions about them. Everybody has reason to lie and spin on that subject. My take on the subject is wait and see what happens. If the president is going to be interviewed, well know it when we know this. Until then, i dont believe anything anybody says about it. Despite all that smoke on that particular subject, though, it does seem clearer than ever that this is now a twofront war for the president. Its the Mueller Investigation all right, but it is also what is going on in federal court in new york where prosecutors earlier this month executed a search warrant to raid the home, the office and the hotel room and the safety deposit box of trumps personal attorney Michael Cohen. Computers, phones, documents, business records, emails, at least some of which relate to mr. Cohens payment to a porn star named Stormy Daniels right before the 2016 election to keep her from talking publicly about her alleged sexual affair with President Trump. Now, Michael Cohen is a lawyer and he is a lawyer who represents the president , and hes been in court trying to stop prosecutors from going through all the stuff that they seized. The president has also had his own lawyer in court making similar arguments. We got a filing today for Michael Cohens legal team saying that the federal prosecutors taint team, the Prosecutors Team that would go through all of the seized documents and communications to weed out anything thats deemed to be protected by Attorney Client privilege, cohens legal team is now arguing that that taint team shouldnt be allowed to review the seized documents. Instead, they want law firms representing Michael Cohen and donald trump to go through the seized documents. And then they can decide whats privileged. They can decide what documents pertain to cohen and trump having a confidential Attorney Client relationship, and therefore they should be shielded from prosecutors by Attorney Client privilege. Thats what cohens lawyers and trumps lawyer want. They quantity to reviwant to re that stuff. They are suggesting an independent special master could be appointed to adjudicate disputes between them and the government about what prosecutors are allowed to see. The president s lawyer today submitted aid letter to the judge saying that the president himself personally wants to review the materials that were seized from Michael Cohen. Quote, our client that means President Trump our client will make himself available as needed to aide in our privilege review on his behalf. President himself is going to go through the documents. So say his lawyers. So, there is a hearing tomorrow in federal court in manhattan about all oand technically in ae that would be sort of a procedural thing. It would be boring. But at this point anything about this case could turnout to be very exciting because this is a very highstakes thing. And as if to underscore just how high stakes it is, just a couple of hours ago, Michael Cohen formally notified the judge in the Stormy Daniels case where Stormy Daniels is suing Michael Cohen and the president over this agreement she signed about the alleged affair. In that case, Michael Cohen has just pled the 5th. He has just officially asserted his fifth amendment right against selfincrimination. Quoting from the filing on april 9, 2018, the federal bureau of investigation executed three search warrants on my residence, office and hotel room respectively without any prior notice. During the corresponding raids, the fbi seized various electronic die vices and documents in my possession which contain information relating to the 130,000 payment to plaintiff stephanie clifford, Stormy Danielss real name, at the center of this case and my communication was counsel relating to this action. Based upon the advice of my counsel, i will assert my fifth amendment rights in connection with all proceedings in this case due to the ongoing criminal investigation by the fbi and the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york. President s personal attorney is pleading the fifth in the Stormy Daniels case. How was your day . Now, this was not unexpected. Michael cohen signalled that he might plead the fifth in the Stormy Daniels case earlier this month. Seeing it written out this way black and white in a court filing, it is a good reminder of how much legal jeopardy the president s personal attorney seems to be in, which is probably why when the attorney general of the United States appeared before congress today, there was a lot of talk about the possibility of a pardon for the president s personal attorney whether and how the president might use that power to try to help Michael Cohen out. We all have an interest in protecting the integrity of the Justice Department. And as a member of the Senate Judiciary committee, you made a statement at a hearing that i thoroughly agree with and im quoting. The power to pardon is a legitimate power. It is one that ought to be exercised with great care. And then you ended saying, i believe in the role of the pardon attorney, unquote. The pardon attorney is an office within the d. O. J. , is it not . It is a position in the department of justice. Did the pardon of sheriff Joseph Allison rosati pay owe go through the Pardon Attorney Office . I dont believe it did. Did Scooter Libby go through that office . I dont believe it did. Has the president or anyone in the administration discussed with you the possibility of President Trump pardoning Michael Cohen . I am not able to reveal the contents of any communications i might have with the president of the United States or his top staff. Given the previous conversation you had with senator van holland, its my hope that if President Trump proceeded to pardon Michael Cohen in violation of longstanding policy, and did not consult with the pardon attorney, did not consult with d. O. J. , that you would express strong objection to that and would consider resigning if that step were taken. Hopefully it will not come to that. Hopefully it will not come to that. But just as the just as in the Mueller Investigation, the separate and now looming investigation into the president s attorney Michael Cohen, has had this big question hanging over him. Will the president try to fix this for his personal attorney by using his pardon power . The president has already pardoned at least a couple of people without going through any kind of Justice Department process. There is a whole process at the Justice Department for pardons. He has not used that. Hes just pardoned people when he felt like it. Will he do the same thing with the possibility of a Michael Cohen pardon in will that help Michael Cohen get out of this fix . Good questions. The other question hanging over the Michael Cohen investigation is whether Jeff Sessions, the attorney general, should have any role in overseeing that case. Remember, Michael Cohen is being prosecuted by the special counsels office. Hes being investigated by federal prosecutors who work under the purview of the Justice Department. The federal prosecutors in the Southern District of new york under the guidance of the u. S. Attorney in that district. Jeff sessions is recused from any matters having anything to do with the 2016 campaign, including the russia investigation. But on cohen, there is a lack of clarity about whether in this case he should also be recused. Or if he is recused, should we even know about it . There has been reporting in both directions. Theres been arguments from the Justice Department the cohen case doesnt fauld under sessions recusal under all matters of the ka many pain. It is reported what they are going after Michael Cohen for is Campaign Finance violations related to the 2016 president ial race. So, is that close enough to make this something that falls within Jeff Sessions recusal . We dont know. Its very woolly and attorney general Jeff Sessions is not saying. He refused to answer senators questions about this today. Are you overseeing the Michael Cohen probe, sir . No answer on that. And, you know what . Procedurally thats probably kosher from Jeff Sessions. Youre not necessarily supposed to go into public detail about why you are recused from any particular case for any particular reason. Those details about your recusal might explain important details about the case that shouldnt be publicly disclosed. But in the cohen case, its hard not to ask that question, right . With the president clearly feeling so threatened about the Michael Cohen case, with Michael Cohens lawyers declaring in open court that the cohen search warrants were specifically looking for documents related to donald trump, there is the prospect that attorney general Jeff Sessions, if hes not recused if he still has an oversight role as attorney general over that case well, could he potentially brief President Trump on whats going on in that case . That issue of Jeff Sessions involvement in oversight in the Michael Cohen case is red hot for a bunch of reasons and at this point i have to tell you it is super unclear. There is also the issue of trumps appointee to the u. S. Attorney in the Southern District of new york where these prosecutors are investigating Michael Cohen. Trumps appointee to lead the Southern District of new york is named Jeffrey Berman. Hes a trump donor. He is somebody who worked on the trump transition, somebody who took a personal interview with trump for the job before he was named to it which is something president s dont usually do with u. S. Attorneys. He is also not incidentally Rudy Giulianis law partner. Because of all those things, it was not the worlds greatest shock when we learned that Jeffrey Berman also despite the fact that he leads this office, he is not involved in the Michael Cohen case. We learned that right after we learned recently right after he took over the Southern District of new yorks job in january, mr. Berman notified justice officials in washington he had a possible appearance of a conflict of interest in the Michael Cohen case. Those officials at d. O. J. In washington reportedly determined that jeff berman shouldnt oversee the cohen investigation even as he took this job in the Southern District of new york. Now, what that conflict of interest is specifically, we dont know. Again, the recusal process is opaque in part because its hard to report on, but in part because there are rules around how much theyre supposed to disclose about this stuff. But there is a question about, with the cohen case now getting super red hot and with Rudy Giuliani trying to negotiate an end to the Mueller Investigation a week from tomorrow, with the president promising that hes going to personally review documents that personally review documents that were seized from his Attorneys Office earlier this month, these recusal issues about Jeff Sessions as attorney general and also about the local u. S. Attorney, jeff berman, theyve been they are intriguing and the fuzziness around those recusal issues remains a news worthy point of interest. There had been worries that jeff bermans role, his status as the interim u. S. Attorney in the Southern District, his recusal, his not being involved in the Michael Cohen case there had been worries that maybe the white house might try to use that as some sort of bargaining chip. Hes the interim u. S. Attorney. He has been appointed, he hasnt been formally nominated to the senate. Senate has not confirmed him u. S. Attorney. As an interim u. S. Attorney, jeff bermans tenure in the Southern District of new york is scheduled to end next week. Had been scheduled to end as of may 4th unless the Trump Administration stepped in to formally and properly nominate him for the job. So, its been this question hanging over the cohen case. When his appointment expires next week, and all of a sudden he cant hold that job any more without trump sayso, might trump take that opportunity to appoint somebody else to lead the Southern District of new york who wouldnt have to take themselves out of running the cohen case . Who wouldnt have a conflict of interest when it came to Michael Cohen . Was there any pressure one way or the other on whether Jeffrey Berman should be recused from the cohen case . Its been a real point of intrigue. Well, today a little bit of resolution. A week ahead of that deadline, the judges of the District Court in the Southern District of new york unanimously appointed jeff berman to hold that job indefinitely. Its one of the things judges can do in this instance. They essentially removed that looming deadline hanging over the u. S. Attorneys office and that pours some oil on these very turbulent waters. Where theres lots and lots of intrigue, lots and lots of muddiness now and this current appears to be moving very fast. Probably not fast enough for giuliani to keep his promise to end the Mueller Investigation by a week from tomorrow, but still, fast. Booking a flight at the last minute doesnt have to be expensive. Just go to priceline. Its the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40 . Just tap and go. For the best savings on flights, go to priceline. But he hasoke up wwork to do. In. So he took aleve. If hed taken tylenol, hed be stopping for more pills right now. Only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. Aleve. All day strong. Oh hi sweetie, i just want to show you something. Xfinity mobile find my phone. [ phone rings ] look at you. This tech stuff is easy. [ whirring sound ] you want a cookie . Its a drone i know. Find your phone easily with the xfinity voice remote. One more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. Today was supposed to be the confirmation hearing for the president s pick to lead the v. A. Instead of that we got this, a twopage summary, fairly lurid accusations against dr. Ronny jackson. It ended up in the Senate Affairs committee. Jon tester, the top democrat on that committee, the staff says they spoke to 23 of Ronny Jacksons current and former colleagues, most of them are still in uniform because the White House Medical Office is staffed by active duty military personnel. Im just going to read you straight from this report what according to the Veterans Affairs committee, what colleagues of Ronny Jackson had to say about their boss. Jackson was described as, quote, the most unethical person i have ever worked with. Quote, flat out unethical. Quote, explosive. Quote, 100 bad temper. Quote, topix i have abusive volatile. Quote, incapable of not losing his temper. Quote, the worst officer i have worked with. Quote, difficult spencer christianable he would lose his mind over small things, was vindictive, belittling. Quote, the worst leader ive ever worked for. The report goes on. As jackson gained power, he became intolerable. One physician said, quote, i have no faith in government that someone like jackson could end up at the v. A. One nurse stated, working at the white house medical unit should have been the highlight of my military career, but it was my worst assignment. Another nurse told the committee that working at the white house medical unit was, quote, the worst experience of my life. These would be really bad things to hear about the white house doctor if he wasnt up for a big promotion. A lot of accusations in this new report from senator tester have already got a familiar ring to them, allegations that dr. Jackson was repeatedly drunk while on duty, and traveling with the president in at least one incident he was allegedly found passed out after a night of drinking on an overseas trip with president obama. But there are some new accusations in this report that we just got tonight as well. Quote, missing percocet, pain pills, missing percocet tabs once threw medical white house unit into a panic. It turned out Ronny Jackson had provided a large supply of percocet to a White House Military Office staffer. Quote, jackson also had private stocks of controlled substances. Quote, one nurse noted that dr. Jackson wrote himself prescriptions. When caught he had someone else, his p. A. , do it. The summary today of allegations against the wouldbe head of the v. A. Is wide ranging, but also brutally concise. The last line, at a secret Service Going away party, admiral jackson got drunk and wrecked a government vehicle. Now, nbc news talked to Ronny Jackson about that today. He says he has never wrecked a car. We checked with d. C. Police. They say they do have two accident reports on file involving Ronny Jackson. One in 2013 and one in 2016, but we dont have any other information at all about those accidents or what caused them or how he was involved. We are still trying to find out more about that. We will keep you posted on that if we learn it. The white house for itsz part spent the day defending Ronny Jackson, reportedly pushing the senate to reschedule his confirmation hearing. But they are not making it easy for the senators who are in charge of this nomination going along if its gonna. Trying to give his nomination a boost last night, the white house gave reporters a stack of reports about Ronny Jacksons time working in the white house. In that stack of records was a whole bunch of good stuff, but also an Inspector General report about the white house medical unit when he was one of its two leaders. It was written during the time he was in a leadership position there in 2012 and the report details a power struggle between Ronny Jackson and another doctor in the office. It also includes a whole bunch of quotes from Ronny Jacksons subordinates and colleagues at the time that are terrible and that sound a lot like, well, what we read in todays report as well. From the i. G. Report in 2012, quote, worst command ever. Senior officers are not leading. Quote, passive aggressive behavior is exhibited by leadership. Quote, command climate is terrible. Quote, the leaders are childlike. That was a weird thing for the white house to hand to reporters if they were trying to salvage Ronny Jacksons nomination, right . But the the other weird thing about the white house handing out those records to reporters on purpose last night is that when they released them last night, they hadnt actually given them to congress who is supposed to be vetting Ronny Jackson for this job. They had never given them to the people in charge of confirming and vetting him for the v. A. Job. They gave them to the press instead. Leo shane from military times reports, the senate had not seen those documents until the white house handed them out and the press started reporting them last night. Now finally the senate does have those documents as well as this bulleted list of accusations against Ronny Jackson from the missing percocets to the wrecked government vehicle to the staffer who called work i for Ronny Jackson the worst experience of an entire working life. The list takes up the better part of twopages single spaced. Publicly Ronny Jackson hasnt said hes withdrawing his nomination. Sources say in private hes saying something different. He has grown frustrated with the nomination process and has told colleagues he may remove his name from consideration. How much longer is this going to go on . Hold that thought. Kyle, we talk. Theres no monsters. But you said theyd be watching us all the time. No, no. No, honey, we meant that progressive would be protecting us 24 7. We just bundled home and auto and saved money. Thats nothing to be afraid of. But good night, kyle. [ switch clicks, door closes ] i told you i was just checking the wiring in here, kyle. Hes never like this. I think somethings going on at school. [ sighs ] hes not engaging. I think somethings going on at school. Ftheres flonase sensimist. F up around pets. It relieves all your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. And all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. Flonase sensimist. I have antivirus, but my computers still slow. I think its time for the fixmestick. Fixmestick is a plugin virus removal device. Its the smart, simple way to clean an infected computer, with a whole lot going on inside the stick. [computers sound] this one got around the Antivirus Software not a problem. Were on it. And because it connects to the internet, fixmestick its always up to date. Now im gonna tell my momma that im a traveller im gonna follow the sun now im gonna tell my momma that im a traveller im gonna follow the sun transitions™ light under control™ transitions™ with a class leading 31mpgs nx combined estimate. Lease the 2018 nx 300 and nx 300 all wheel drive for these terms. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. We need to help more tocalifornians get ahead. D, thats why Antonio Villaraigosa brought both parties together to balance the state budget with record investments in public schools. And new Career Training programs. As mayor of la, he brought police and residents together to get illegal guns off the streets and keep kids out of gangs, and on the right path. Thats Antonio Villaraigosa. A governor for all of california. So, we just got in some breaking news from reuters about Ronny Jacksons nomination to lead the v. A. Reuters has a source tonight telling them that as of about 15 minutes ago, Ronny Jackson was seen in a meeting at the white house discussing, quote, whether to withdraw as trumps nominee to head the department of Veterans Affairs. I can tell you from the live picture the lights are not all off at the white house tonight. Hey, you guys, flash the lights if youre watching. Thats a live shot. Go on. Joining us now is leo shane, Deputy Editor from military times. He covers Veterans Affairs and the white house. Leo, its really nice to see you. Thank you for being here. Thanks for the invite. So, whats your understanding of whats happening now with this nomination and whats likely to happen over the next day or two . Im not sure i can predict a day from now. It seems to be changing minute by minute. Look, the white house came out very strong this morning saying they were still behind dr. Jackson. They wanted the nomination to go forward. They wanted to see confirmation hearing, but there has also been a lot of pressure from the white house saying Senate Democrats are behind this. Theyre making up allegations, these things thats where we saw that document you put up earlier, from senator tester saying, look, this is not just democrats trying to create something. This is a series of military officials, current and former, saying that they have serious problems, serious allegations against him. Almost as important as the allegations, this is stuff that the senators didnt have any knowledge of just days away from a confirmation hearing. So, what im hearing on capitol hill right now, there is not a lot of appetite to have one of these. Sure, they could try and schedule one two weeks from now, three weeks from now. It feels like theyre far away from feeling comfortable enough to bring him in front of a hearing and vet him to be the v. A. Secretary. And, leo, you know these things much better than i do, but my impression of the Veterans Committee in the senate, which is the entity that has to make a decision whether or not theyre going to have a confirmation hearing on him. My impression is that that committee does not like or expect to be surprised. They expect to be consulted on the Senior Leadership of the v. A. , they expect to have lead time, they expect decisions to be consensus essentially, not just bipartisan. They expect to have consensus with the administration and committee on these things. This seems like a 180 degree departure from that. Senate didnt have this i. G. Report before the white house released it to the press last night. Youre absolutely right. None of the committees like to be surprised by things. But we usually when there is some critical issue with any of the nominees, you know, we know that ahead of time. The senders have gotten some heads up. They sort of know where the questions are going to go. Things can go along party lines. The Veterans Affairs committee and the house operate on a really bipartisan basis. Its not a good not a good look to be against veterans. So, both sides really do find a lot of Common Ground there. And in this case, you know, while the white house has been lashing out at democrats, the republicans also agreed to delay this confirmation hearing. This wasnt something that democrats forced on them. Republicans stepped back and said, we dont feel comfortable with the information we have. We dont feel comfortable putting him in front of the public to be the face of v. A. And question him on this. So, a lot of concern up here about what the step next is if he stays in. You know, i guess the white house can continue on this path where they say that its allegations, its not proof. But there sure is a loit of folks coming out of the woodwork to talk about him right now. Leo shane covering Veterans Affairs, white house preeminent Affairs Reporter in the country. Leo, thank you for your time tonight. I really appreciate you for being here. Thank you. I will say leos point there about bipartisan ship on the Veterans Committee is for real. However this gets resolved this is an intense drama around Ronny Jackson. However this gets resolved in terms of him being white house doctor and him being this nominee, in the best case scenario, jon tester and johnny size atkinson, Top Republican and top democrat come out together and make a unanimous decision and unanimous announcement about what happens here. Veterans affairs, veterans policy is a bipartisan thing in washington. We should all hope this is not something thats going to wreck that. All right. Well be right back. Delivery should look like this. Crisp leaves of lettuce, freshlymade dressing. Clean food that looks this good, eaten at your desk. Panera. Food as it should be. Now delivered. In january the new yorker had a scoop about president ial soninlaw Jared Kushner. This is before kushner was downgraded in terms of his security clearance, before the white house stopped allowing him to have access to highly classified information. But evan and adam in the new yorker in january were able to report out the first time a bunch of stuff about Jared Kushner that was unnerving in terms of National Security. This is where we first learned that despite mr. Kushners inability to get a permanent security clearance, he nevertheless was receiving the president s daily brief from the Intelligence Community every day. Thats where we learned that it wasnt just the president who was throwing intelligence protocols out the window, holding conversations with foreign leaders on his own with no note taker, no staff present, no briefing. It was also Jared Kushner doing the same thing. That new yorker report that said that in particular mr. Kushner was known to repeatedly take unstaffed meetings with the Chinese Ambassador to the United States, including at least one occasion in which they metta loan. Met alone, which youre not supposed to do. That article is where we learned Jared Kushner did this sort of thing with the Chinese Ambassador and kept doing it even though he was warned personally by the top Counter Intelligence official at the fbi, that he, Jared Kushner, personally was the target of a chinese influence operation by chinese intelligence. Ahead of the chinese president going to maralago in april last year, u. S. Surveillance intercepted u. S. Chinese officials saying in meetings preparing for the maralago summit, Jared Kushner had discussed his own business interests with the Chinese Ambassador along with intelligence. They were concerned the Chinese Government was seeking to use business influence to induce mr. Kushner. Jared went along on the president s trip to china. After they came home from the trip in december 2017, u. S. Intelligence agencies briefed a wider circle of u. S. Trump Administration Officials telling them a member of the president s family was being targeted by a chinese influence operation. So, just a block buster story from the new yorker in january. Jared kushner still works at the white house. Cant fire someone from the job of soninlaw, right . But he reportedly no longer has access to classified information and now apart from turning up at places like last nights state dinner, mr. Kushner has been keeping a much lower profile. Well, now new scoop. Fresh off winning a freaking Pulitzer Prize last week for his reporting on harvey weinstein, roen enfarrell has a new book out which has a bunch of scoops in it. The one that rings like a bell for me in terms of National Security worries in this white house is a scoop about Jared Kushner, and it arrives right in the middle of a story about Rex Tillerson screwing something up. Heres the story. It starts on page 290 of ronans book. Quote, during tillersons first trip to china as secretary of state, he and president xi jinping sat in matching taupe leather arm chairs in front of a mural of chinese pastoral beauty, cranes soaring over pristine valleys and forests. They wore matching red ties and dark jackets. And in a move that left close followers of u. S. chinese relations a gape, they used matching language. President xi urged the United States to expand cooperative areas and achieve win win results. Tillerson agreed. The u. S. Side is ready to develop relation was china based on the principal of no conflict, no confron trading nation, Mutual Respect and win win cooperation. A lay observer might have blinked and missed it. Agents at the state department and beyond saw something unusual immediately. Tillerson had all but copy and pasted earlier statements by xi who just a few months before had expressed hope that President Trump would uphold the principles of nonconflict, nonconfrontation, Mutual Respect and win win cooperation. Thats exactly what tillerson said. That was the most recent of many examples of xi and other communist officials using that coded sequence of terms to describe a new balance of power, china as an equal to the u. S. And the u. S. Deferring on contentious issues from taiwan and territorial disputes in the south china sea. Staterun Chinese Media picked up on the dog whistle. Tillerson has endorsed the new model of major power relations crowed the communist affiliated global times. Saying rex had given the impression that china and the u. S. Are equal. As barack obama refused to do. So, why did Rex Tillerson do that . Whether or not you care about us and china, one basic thing to understand about the fundamental relationship between us and the most populist country on earth, this other rising super power, is that china wants us to butt out of everything that interests them. They want to be seen as big and powerful and rich and influential enough that we should never deign to say anything to them about their operations. They should operate at will. Thats what they want from the United States. No, were not going to war with china. In foreign relation ands Foreign Policy they have the specific coded language they have been seeking from the United States to show, okay, we agree. We capitulate to that idea. You do whatever you want. Well stay out of it. So, its a really big deal that Rex Tillerson went over to china and used that coded language. He recited their script word for word exactly what they want. I mean, that we know from public reporting. But then ronan reporting this book, he gegts an interview with tillerson for the book. He also gets an interview with tillersons sort of right hand guy at the state department and ronan asks him point blank, quote, did tillerson intend to mirror the language, i asked . Brian hook, hes not intending to mirror their language. But is he aware thats what he did . Answer he signs off on every statement he delivers. So, it kind of seems like Rex Tillerson might not have known. Rex tillersons top staff seems surprised to learn what Rex Tillerson said in china was a script from the Chinese Government. With the u. S. Agreeing to treat them a way we have never agreed to before. But that they have been demanding. Rex tillerson went over there and gave in to that demand without seeming to know that he was doing it. So, where did that come from . Where did that script come from . How did that language get into Rex Tillersons prepared remarks for his china trip . Back to the book, page 291. Quote, several officials told me the state departments regional experts attuned to the significance of such language had not been consulted on tillersons statement in china. Instead it had been drafted by the white house. According to several sources there, it was drafted by the office of Jared Kushner. Oh. Seems like a big deal. Particularly what we know about repeated fbi Counter Intelligence warnings to the white house about mr. Kushner as a target of Chinese Foreign influence operations. We also learn in the book that Rex Tillerson blames Jared Kushner for pushing him out as secretary of state apparently because rex thinks jared wants the secretary of state job himself, which would be a hard one with no security clearance. But, oh, wait, theres more. For just 15. 99. 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We get a big rip roaring argument about america giving up on diplomacy over time and what made the state department a weak enough institution but by the time trump got there to kill it, Rex Tillerson was an easy and effective tool for doing that job. This book will make Ronan Farrell a lots more enemies. Nobody comes off great. But it does have a bunch of scoops. We learn, for example, the incredible detail on 262, how Rex Tillerson handled one particularly timely sensitive part of his job. Quote, when the United States initiated strikes on syria, the administration entirely skipped the conventional step of notifying nato allies. Tillerson received a flood of calls. An officer in the state departments Operations Center who spent months connecting tillersons calls told ronan, quote, when news broke, alarmed allies called saying i would like to speak with secretary tillerson. It was sunday afternoon and the office was unoccupied. Quote, we were told the secretary had a long weekend. He was going to go home and have dinner with his wife and call it a night. No calls. The Operations Officer exasperated said, we just bombed syria without telling our allies. You might have to do some phone calls, even from home. That floored me, end quote. Ronan farrells new book is called war on peace, the end of diplomacy and the decline of american influence. Its good in part because ronan knows what hes talking about on this subject. He is a former state department official. It is good in part because hes got a bunch of news scoops. And its good in part because hes interviewed every living secretary of state and got them all to weigh in on the secretary of state disaster we are living through now that we will have to explain to the next generation when they wonder where it went and why we had to get rid of it. But mostly its good because he gets people like, i kid you not, the person connecting Rex Tillersons phone calls to talk to them talk to him about whats really happening, and those, of course, are the people who always actually know whats really happening. Joining us now is Ronan Farrell fresh off his Pulitzer Prize. Thank you for having me. This is a big deal, and a big piece of reporting. Congratulations. I think an important untold story for a whole variety of reasons. Youre writing about a long, longterm trend here about diplomacy getting undercut, Foreign Service getting undercut, the military taking over everything instead. The one thing i didnt know when i got to the end of the book, do you believe that process is complete . Is this essentially an obituary for the state department . It is not. Okay. And heres why i think that. Administration after administration comes in and short changes diplomacy. Its happening at a vastly accelerated rate now. It is not unprecedented but it is at a new extreme. The results are devastating. Theyre generational. You have colin powell on this book on the record saying Rex Tillerson tore the guts out of the state department. This is mortgaging your future. And the reason it has a ren rational impact is the people who should be ambassadors 20 years from now arent even entering the system. We are denigrating the position that will take time to rebuild. However, you can look for instance at the second term of the Obama Administration where, again, senior officials in that administration are on the book saying, we screwed up. We had a culture of celebrity generals. It overtook our afghanistan policy and other processes and they refocused. A few good years you had the iran deal, for all its controversy, a very serious diplomatic matter. The paris Climate Change accord. That took just a few short years. So, as much as the picture is dire and this really is a crisis that is making us less safe, all of the whistleblowers who were brave enough to speak say they are hopeful. They feel right now potentially under even mike pompeo, there is a power to reverse course to pull out of the nose dive. We are at this incredible moment. You couldnt have known this when you timed the publication of the book. Pompeos confirmation is likely to be tomorrow. Is the expectation at state, from people who are champions of the state department, champions of diplomacy, is the expectation that hes there to kind of finish the job, that hes there to continue this ripping the guts out that tillerson has been engaged in . That is the desperate fear. What we know about mike pompeos past, he is a skilled politician. He is much more lockstep with the president than Rex Tillerson was. Rex tillerson gleefully, he says now partly due to inexperience, in his book he says that. Presided over the cuts to the state department. But he also pushed back on efforts to get out of the iran deal. He fought with the president. And in the announcement of the choice of pompeo, the president said specifically hes a guy who is on the same wavelength. This is a guy who has matched the president tweet for tweet on every statement about the iran deal. So, theres a lot of fear, but this Department Decision prattly needs leadership. So, theres also this hope. I feel like reading this, putting it more bluntly, i think there is a question as to whether or not the Republican Party continues to believe that there ought to be diplomacy, continues to believe there ought to be a department of state. Killing it this way is one way to do it. Abolishing it will become the pledge for the people running to the right of republican nominees and future primaries. That is the fundamental cultural problem. Politics of both parties, i do think there is somewhat more of it of late in the Republican Party. There are brave men and women serving the country for not a lot of pay in dangerous places, as you say, making it safer, maki making diplomacy more ploe fegsal. Saving citizens around the world in a literal direct sense. Theyre not getting credit for that. Last question briefly. Does Jared Kushner deny that he wrote tillersons remarks in china when tillerson went over there and parroted the Chinese Government . No comment from him. Ronan farrell fresh off his Pulitzer Prize, war on peace. Remarkable reporting. Great to see you. Great to be here. Well be back soon. Stay with us. Since the historic opening of relations between our two countries more than 40 years ago, the u. S. china relationship has been guided by an understanding of nonconflict, nonconfrontation, Mutual Respect and win win cooperation. What is it . The next big thing in food was once a little paper box. 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Will they want to talk to him about the condo he rents from an enter judge lobbyist 50 a night . The phone booth, any of it . Pruitt has largely avoided the press like a waterfall pouring into a deep pool. Tomorrow he will Face Congress and two separate committees on tv in open session for hours. Like i said, good even, rachel. Sitting beside me tonight out of frame is Michael Avenatti, Stormy Daniels lawyer, who was not sked scheduled to be on the show. But now Michael Cohen has taken the fifth amendment. And i think Michael Avenatti has a few things to say about that. Heres whats fascinating about the Ronny Jackson situation, where theyre having a meeting tonight with Ronny Jackson, talking about do you withdraw . How useful is it for President Trump right now to have this Ronny Jackson controversy going on, as bad as it is, because Ronny Jackson was actually going to be in this position in the