Other side won the war. They are known as taiwan. We decided that is what we would call china. We basically pretended that the whole giant land mass of china over there, the big part in the center, we decided for diplomatic purposes, the whole major main part of china, we decided they had no government. Because we would not recognize the communist party as the government of china. In some ways im over simplifying this, i know. In some ways im not. We wouldnt recognize that the capital of china was in beijing. For 30 years after the communists won that civil war and were running china, we said looking at that map, as far as we were concerned, beijing wasnt the capital, as far as we were concerned, that was china alone. We recognized taiwan and its government as the real china, the real Chinese Government, the real chinese capital. Its like the whole rest of the country didnt exist. It was awkward, it was an awkward sort of mind game that we played around those diplomatic decisions we made about china. And it was awkward, and it went on for decades. And then in 1972 something world changing happened. Nixon went to china. That has since become an over used metaphor about everything. President nixon shocked the world and went over there for a talk with mao, at a time when we didnt recognize the government of china. That was 1972. It was an amazing thing, right . Were in the middle of this ongoing terrifying cold war against a giant communist country . The soviet union, and in the middle of that, the president of the United States decides to go visit and Start Talking with the leader of the other gigantic communist country in the world. Who we had been studiously ignoring and refusing to speak to for decades. Nixon went to china, 1972. Even after that, it took us another 7 years for our government to actually recognize the government of china. We didnt establish a formal diplomatic relationship with china until 1979 under president carter. 1979 we finally stopped insisting that the real government of china was in taiwan, we admitted publicly that we acknowledged that the capital of china was actually a city called beijing. We closed the embassy that we had set up on taiwan. We opened one up in beijing instead. And that decision, that shift in the 1970s, that is how and why were still talking to china today, 44 years after nixon broke down that wall and went over to china, and talked to mao. We talked to china, we have our huge differences with china, right . We talked to china. This is our embassy in beijing. We acknowledge that the Chinese Government is the Chinese Government. We dont have the u. S. Embassy to china in taiwan any more. We have the embassy in beijing which is the capital of that country. We have a one china policy where we recognize theres only one Chinese Government. We recognize the Chinese Government as the government of china, it took us a long time for us to get there. It sounds rational now, it took us a long time, decades to get there. And thats where we are. And donald trump apparently took that silverware drawer out of the cabinet and turned it upside down over his head and well see what happens. It took decades to develop the grounds on which we talk to china. Donald trump tore it up today. The intense and important thing here, is we dont know if he did it on purpose. Or if he just bumbled into it. I mean, either way, this conceivably is the way wars start, right . But what he did tonight is either a profoundly radical and consequential surprise action by the new administration or its a huge screwup. Which would be better . We dont know which it is. I mean, heres what we know happened. Heres the story, right . On the left, you see the president of china, on the right you see the president of taiwan. Taiwan sees itself as its own country. China says taiwan is not its own country. China says taiwan is part of china. We decided in the 1970s, to recognize one china, just one Chinese Government with its capital in beijing, that was a change for us. We changed course after decades through great diplomatic pain and achievement, we made the decision to acknowledge that the Chinese Government is the one and only Chinese Government. We do not maintain separate diplomatic relations with taiwan any more. Not since the 1970s. But today donald trump called and spoke with the president of taiwan. And then released this statement, announcing the call as one of his calls with World Leaders today. If you dont follow this stuff, a call to taiwan, a call between the president elect of the United States and the president of taiwan, it may not seem like the biggest deal in the world. Hey, its just one phone call, why is this a big deal. This is something we dont do as a country. This is something we havent done on push, very carefully for decades. This is the first time a president elect of the United States has called the leader of taiwan as if theyre a separate country since the 1970s, since we stopped doing that, deliberately and on purpose, and there by established the modern basis of our relationship with the most populous nation on earth. The worlds only other rising superpower. And maybe the president elect doesnt know that. Maybe the president elect esnt know that this phone call today maybe he doesnt maybe he doesnt know about the taiwan issue. Maybe he doesnt know that by making this phone call, by taking this phone call, he just basically his puree on decades of American Foreign policy and diplomacy between us and the other most powerful country on earth. It may seem possible he doesnt flow. He just bumbled into this. Why is everyone saying this is such a big deal . I took a phone call . It is now a hallmark of this president ial transition, that the president elect is refusing to attend the daily Intelligence Briefings that hes being offered by the intelligence community. The president s daily brief is prepared every day to the president of the United States, thats made available to donald trump, we know that hes been refusing those briefings. We also know that although the state Department Says it stands at the ready to brief the president elect or brief anyone on his team, before he has conversations with other World Leaders, which is the Standard Practice before the u. S. Government contacts other World Leaders, we know that even though the state department stands ready to do that, they say the president elect has refused those briefings too. So its it does seem possible. I have to say, if seems even likely that he has no idea what he just stumbled into. If he does, though have the internet machine on his tweeter, he might conceivably have checked the state Department Website before he made this consequential call. Even if he didnt want to talk to somebody from the state department. He could have googled just what the state Department Says on its website about taiwan. Its not complicated stuff, its clear. At the state Department Website it says the United States and taiwan enjoy a robust but unofficial relationship. In 1979 the u. S. Switched diplomatic recognition from taipei to beijing. And the United States recognized the peoples republic of china as the sole the sole the sole legal government of china. Acknowledging the chinese position that there is but one china and taiwan is part of china. Even if you dont care about the world at large. Even if you only care about taiwan, because you might want to build a hotel there. Even if youre not interested in your Intelligence Briefings, in the state department telling you who youre talking to and whats important to them. And what the red lines are that might really upset them, before you start calling up other countries. You could just in a cab, check the website at the state department via your phone. You could do that thats like what a fourth grader would do before meeting somebody for right . But apparently that whats it seems like happened tonight, the president elect didnt do even that. And it may be that he doesnt realize what he has just destroyed. Or its possible he does know the consequences of what he just did. In which case, we just embarked on one of the most radical shifts in Foreign Policy in a generation, without anybody having any warning at all that it was coming. Well go first to Jennifer Jacobs at bloomberg. Good morning, guys, can you say if its true that trump will speak with the president of taiwan today . I will have to get back to you on that one, jen, i dont have that currently on the schedule. But let me go and confirm that, ill get back to you. As of this morning, his transition staff said, long pause, no. Nothing like that on the schedule. I havent heard anything about that. Not that we know of. That was his own transition staff. The white house says that they also were not told about the call until it was done, and the state Department Also had no word that this was happening, but now it is done. And this does reflect the biggest Foreign Policy change toward the most populous nation on earth since the 1970s. This conceivably throws a grenade into one of our most carefully built, fragile, important policy relationships, the largest nation on earth. So now tonight do we hope that he meant to do this . And hes just going to be this radical with no warning, even while theres another president still in office . And hes not supposed to be changing the Foreign Policy of the United States yet . Do we hope that he meant it . Or do we hope that he has no idea what just happened and this was an accident . After the world started to blow upton the in response to what he did. The president elect tweeted this late tonight. The president of taiwan called me today to wish me congratulations on winning the presidency. Thank you. He put called me in all capitals, as if the fact that he received the call instead of originated the call makes any difference whatsoever. Youre the president elect of the United States, youre soon to be the president of the United States. A lot of people will try to call you. It doesnt mean you have to be home. Just before showtime we got another tweet from the president elect. Interesting how the u. S. Sells taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment, but i should not accept a congratulatory call. If by interesting you mean youre interested in this as a topic, does that mean youre interested in learning more about this as a topic . Do you want to know why it is that the United States can sell military equipment to taiwan, but there isnt diplomatic contacted between highlevel u. S. Officials and the government of taiwan as if we recognize them diplomatically which we no longer do. When you say its interesting, are you interested in that . Are you just intrigued by that, but youre not curious as to why that is . Or are you actually interested. If youre interested, there are people who can help you understand this. Tonight we got reaction to todays massive shift in American Foreign poll soy, from one of the rising stars of democratic Foreign Policy thinking. Chris murphy. He sits on the Foreign Relations committee. Here was his reaction tonight. Foreign policy consistency is a means, not an end. Its not sacred, thus, it is trumps right to shift policy and alliances, and strategy. What has happened in the last 48 hours, though, is not a shift. These are major pivots in Foreign Policy, without any plan. Thats how wars start. If they arent pivots, just radical temporary deviations, allies will walk if they have no clue what we stand for. Just as bad. And finally, its probably time we get a secretary of state nominee on board. Preferably with experience. Like really really soon. End quote. Joining us now is senator chris murphy of connecticut. Thank you very much for being here with us tonight. I feel like the question that we have to sort of contend with right now is whether its better or worse if this was an accident. If the president elect is ignorant of the sensitivities here and what this might mean for our relationship with the other most powerful nation on earth. Or whether this is just real off the hook radicalism, a huge change in American Foreign policy, that he means deliberately, and hes just doing it while president obama is still in office. Which do you think it is . Well, i tend to think its the first. Especially given the context, this wasnt just todays phone call with the president of taiwan, it was also a breezy invitation to the president of the philippines to come visit the United States after a year in which hes ordered or at least condoned the extra judicial killing of thousands of his civilians, it was a call with the head of the pakistani government in which he suggested that the u. S. Would be there to help pakistan with all of its problems, including maybe its major territorial dispute over kashmir with india. It suggests theres a pattern here of him saying things that have real impact without having thought through them. I ess to give him the most credit, there is something in between a mistake and a very well thought out strategic change in american policy toward taiwan. He may just be trying to purposefully get a dig at china, because of all the other things that we have on the table. Thats no more palatable in that we do have much bigger fish to fry with china. Whether it be our economic issues, Climate Change or this messy problem of a nuclear north korea. The idea you would ding them on taiwan, making it less likely that youll get a settlement on these other issues, would be a very strange way to approach your conversations with this first country. Theres no good option here. I tend to think this was probably just someone who didnt know what he was doing. And given that weve had sort of three mistakes in 48 hours, it doesnt suggest that this is going to get much better. If it is the latter, taking that sort of most charitable view, that he understands what a big provocation this is to china, he meant to do it, its on purpose, he has some strategic goal in mind behind it. Is it appropriate to start down that path, to pick this fight with china, to mark this change in our relationship, while there is another u. S. President whos still in office whos in charge of u. S. Foreign policy. Of course not. Hes right to remind us that this is one of the most complicated and diplomatic relationships we have. Our president s dont talk, and we sell weapons to them. Its strange the relationship is built upon three communiques and six principals, thats the point. Its one of the most complicated relationships we have, so it takes a lot of thought if you are going to deviate from the place we are today. And if he is just trying to ding china, and ultimately hes going to abandon the taiwanese and do a deal with china on some economic issue, thats just as problematic because it signals that hes going to play games with countries in order to get something from somebody else and thats how alliances and treaties break down. So theres really no good way to read this tonight. And it suggests that were in for a really really bumpy road. Senator, you mentioned at the top, this is one of three mistakes or at least very reckless things hes done in International Phone calls over the last 48 hours, not just this lets say, maybe unintentional provocation of china. Also inviting himself to pakistan, theres a reason that president obama has not gone to pakistan since hes been president of the United States. Obviously, one of the most sensitive countries on earth, Nuclear Armed an intense relationship with our other close ally, india, whos also Nuclear Armed. Theres the pakistan issue and this invitation hes extended to the president of the philippines, who as you said, is implicated in thousands of killings since hes been in office, who also, incidentally, called the president of the United States very recently a son of a whore, and the president elect has now invoighted him tcome to the white house. Is that the sort of thing that on the Foreign Relations committee, you would expect to have input in if he tried to go through with visiting pack substantial, with having the philippine president come to the white house . I think here in lies the problem, we still have 48 votes in the United States senate as democrats, and that does and that allow us to have a discussionen policy. The checks and balances dont work as well when it comes to Foreign Policy. He has the ability to trade anywhere he wants. He has certain abilities to enter into treaty negotiations, to impose lift sanctions unchecked by the United States congress. I think thats why many of us worry, and i use some strong words today, i said, this is how wars start, i admit its not likely that any of these three mistakes are going to immediately lead to a war breaking out. But this Foreign Policy freestyling at the rate weve seen today given the law of averages will eventually lead to something very terrible happening. Which is why it might be about time to get a secretary of state who knows what theyre talking about in place. Senator chris murphy, i know we wrangled you on short notice tonight when this all started happening, thanks for being here on a friday night. I appreciate it. Thanks. Lots to get to this busy night. I have to say, i am i feel like ive sort of suspended all disbelief in terms of whats possible from the president elect. This thing with lobbing this bomb at china, with apparently having no idea that its a bomb, i am flabbergasted by this. Break glass in case of emergency, somebody get me a glass. Well be right back. Walked around the shelter, no intention of adopting. He was the very last kennel in the very last row. Emaciated. He was skin and bones. Usually what you see in neglected dogs. It was one of those complete, meanttobe moments. I totally fell in love with him. avo through the subaru share the love event, weve helped the aspca save nearly thirty thousand animals so far. Get a new subaru, and well donate another two hundred and fifty dollars to help those in need. Put a little love in your heart. It was a busy friday in the news. Even before the president elect picked up the phone and bumbled into the biggest fight weve had with china in 40 years. There was a lot going on in the news before that happened this evening. And so we do have a lot of show to get to tonight. It will include back flips and cart wheels in congress. Im not kidding, stay with us. Have. It could be better. Its time to shake things up. With the capital one venture card, you get double miles on everything you buy, not just airline purchases. Seriously, think of all the things you buy. Great. Is this why you asked me to coffee . Well yeah. But also to catchup. Whats in your wallet . The search for relief often leads here. S, introducing drugfree aleve direct therapy. A high intensity tens device that uses technology once only in doctors offices. For deep penetrating relief at the source. New aleve direct therapy. Traditionally speaking, heres what you have to do to get a good number. Ready . One, one. Miss graham has drawn number six. Thank you, back flip staffer. The staffer for incoming congresswoman gwen graham, acting as his boss good luck charm, when she had to do the lottery drawing, that they use to assign office space to new members of congress. Being able to do a trick should go on your staffer resume. I once met this cartwheeling staffer in washington, d. C. Shes very nice. Shes a combat veteran and did that cartwheel as great luck for her boss. Who also got a nice low number, after the cartwheel got a 10 out of 70 that year. Got great office every year. Including this year, there are good luck talismans and cartwheels and prayers, as incoming members of congress try to get good low numbers in the office space lottery. Miss Blount Rochester prayed, and she drew number four. [ cheers ] mr. Correa drew number one. [ cheers ] believe in prayer. This is how it goes every year. Future members of Congress Strike a little pose, they do a little dance or they say a prayer, they bless the box, to try to steal some luck from other members of congress. Anything to help their chances of getting a lower lottery number and thereby a better office. Maybe all this stuff is silly, hugging the guy that got the good number. Rubbing his head. Maybe this stuff is silly, maybe it doesnt make any difference. Thats apparently what Charlie Crist thought when he took his turn among 49 other members this week. He did no flip, no back hug, he was all business. Mr. Crist. Mr. Crist drew number 50. Thank you. 50 out of 50. Dead last. The camera caught someone in the background that said, thats amazing. After he pulled his 50. So let that be a lesson from all of us, from the new congress this week, which has completed their office lottery. If you do nothing, you retain your dignity above all else, youll still end up getting laughed at. It turned out, even though they did that lottery this week, they cannot assign all the office space in the u. S. Capitol just yet. There is a dude they have to wait for for very good reason. That story is coming up next. Stay with us. Is it a force of nature . Or a sales event . The season of audi sales event is here. Audi will cover your first months lease payment on select models during the season of audi sales event. bing start your day with the number one choice of dentists. Philips sonicare removes significantly more plaque versus oralb 7000. Experience this amazing feel of clean. Innovation and you. Philips sonicare. Save now when you buy philips sonicare. Im not a customer, but im calling about that credit scorecard. Give it. Sure its free for everyone. Oh well thats nice and checking your score wont hurt your credit. Oh im so proud of you. Well thank you. Free at at discover. Com creditscorecard, even if youre not a customer. This is the year when the United States of america started having mass rallies for its leader. After the election. Weve never had that before, not like this. Now we know as of tonight that its not going to be just the one mass rally that president elect did in ohio yesterday. We learned today theyre going to do another one next week in fayetteville, north carolina. And another one after that on thursday next week in des moines, iowa. And then presumably there will be more after that as well. Maybe theyll keep doing mass rallies for the leader throughout his presidency, who knows. He seems to like them. A lot. Like really a lot. He really seems to like these. But in addition to this novel mass rally schedule that they have planned, the Vice President elect is veering off the tour tomorrow on his own. Because he is going to louisiana. And louisiana, they havent had the election yet, at least not all of the election. A week from tomorrow, next saturday, louisianas going to go back to the polls and that will decide whether there are 48 democrats in the United States senate or 49. And thats potentially an important difference. This is how the senate looks right now, after picking up two seats in this election on november 8th. Democrats have 48 seats to the republicans 51. Thats a difference of three seats between them. If the republican wins in this Louisiana Senate race, that would increase their majority from three to four. But if the democrats win that Louisiana Senate race a week from tomorrow, that would mean the republicans only have a twovote margin on any one vote. If democrats could pick off one republican senator, the senate would be tied. If the democrats pick off two republican senators they would get a majority of the joke. That clear dot, the one outstanding seat in the senate that is yet to be voted on that really could make an important difference. And there really isnt much in terms of polling for this louisiana race. Thats the democratic candidate Foster Campbell on the left. The republican candidate, john kennedy on the right, in terms of the prospects for this race, louisiana is a red state, but just last year in louisiana, they elected a democrat to be their governor. And that democratic governor is squarely in support of the Democratic Senate candidate Foster Campbell. Mike pence is going to louisiana tomorrow to campaign in that race. Hes going to campaign for the republican Senate Candidate tomorrow, tomorrow is the last day of early voting for this race. Republicans sending in their big gun, the Vice President elect to help the republican candidate. Theyre not taking this race for granted. This is the last contested senate seat in washington. Theyre sending mike pence down there. Heres my question. Where are the National Democrats on this. Mike pence is flying in on the republican side. Whos flying in to support the democratic candidate in this race . President obama, are you busy . Mrs. First lady . Anybody, you guys got plans . Nobody as far as we can tell. And check this out. At this point, the Democratic Campaign committee, theyre not even going so far as to push Foster Campbell on their website look at their website right now. Stay tuned to learn more about our efforts to take back the senate no mention of the candidate they have running for senate next week. Mike pence is busy right now. Mike pence is running the transition and hes still the governor of indiana, and theyre going to have to send him to beijing to stop the war with china, that donald trump almost inadvertently started today. Mike pence is busy, but still, hes making time, because that senate seat is important. Theyre sending pence to louisiana tomorrow to fight for that senate seat. Why arent the democrats fighting for it too . Seriously, one race left in the whole country. What else are you working on . Whats going on here . P is for privileges. O is for ordinarily i wouldnt. L is for layers of luxury. A is for alll the way back. R is for read my mind. And i. Cant see a thing. S. See you in the morning. Polaris, from united. When i was too busy with the kids to get a repair estimate. I just snapped a photo and got an estimate in 24 hours. My Insurance Company definitely doesnt have that. You can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™ Liberty Mutual insurance that goes beyond assuming beingredients are safe. Ood to knowing they are. Going beyond expectations. Because our pets deserve it. Beyond. Natural pet food. Right before george w. Bush was sworn into office in 2001, this was the headline in the excellent satirical newspaper the onion. Bush our Long National nightmare bush our Long National nightmare of peace and prosperity is finally over. My fellow americans, bush says, at long last weve reached the end of the dark period in American History that will come to be known as the clinton era. Eight long Years National parked by a sharp decrease in crime and sustained peace overseas. The time has come do put all of that behind us. That was by that was i mean, the whole idea is so spooky. Its creepy, this is my favorite part of this fake article. They quoted bud crandall saying, after eight years of relatively sane fiscal policy under the democrats, weve reached a point where president clinton says the National Debt could be paid off as early as 2012. Thats not the kind of world i want my children to grow up in. And the onion ends up being weirdly presient. Bush really started off with a booming economy, and he set the whole thing on fire by the time he was leaving office and obama was coming into office, what george w. Bush was handing the incoming president was an Unemployment Rate of 6. 8 and climbing like a rocket ship. The economy had started the worst free fall since the great depression. But a bunch of residents havent had it easy, when reagan took office from carter, unemployment was 7. 5 and climbing. When carter took office from ford it was 7. 8 . A lot of president s have started off with the previous president leaving a flaming bag of dog doo on the front step. Bye, you deal with it. This is what happened over the eight years of the obama presidency. As of today, the obama rate is now at 4. 6 , which is the lowest its been since 2007. Since the year before george w. Bushs financial collapse. 4. 6 unemployment. Thats what donald trump is inheriting, thanks obama. Hes inheriting the lowest Unemployment Rate of any president in the last 40 years. In terms of economics, there is one factor in this soon to be trump presidency, that is absolutely unprecedented. That is 100 different than any president that has ever come before him. And that story along with lawrence tribe is next. 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Chaching talking about getting that moneeeey talking about getting that moneeeey savings worth the hype. Now thats progressive. Savings worth the hype. Says it wont let up for a while. The cadillac xt5. What should we do . Tailored to you. Wait it out. Equipped with apple carplay compatibility. Now during seasons best, get this low mileage lease on this cadillac xt5 from around 429 per month, or purchase with 0 apr financing. It has become kind of a conundrum on this president ial transition, that this president elect hasnt divested himself from any of his business assets. That means he will, he already is personally financially benefiting from the Public Office to which he has just been elected. Even just as president elect. We have reports of Foreign Countries suddenly disappearing what had been longstanding roadblocks to his overseas hotel projects. Foreign diplomats have started booking their event the at his washington hotel. They explained theyre doing that because hes president elect. He has repeatedly had the top executives of his company sit in on his meetings and phone calls with foreign leaders and even his cabinet appointments. Thats a problem, theyre going to be running his business, theyre also in on all these decisions of government that could benefit his business. Theres no plan for donald trump to dump even his stocks, that would be the least he could do to avoid the appearance that hes using the presidency, using his control of the federal government to enrich himself. Take one example. Look at the stock of Goldman Sachs. Their stock just hit an 8 year high. Goldman sachs stock is going through the roof as the president elect meets with and hires more and more Goldman Sachs guys. Including the treasury secretary. His chief adviser and top strategist, he keeps bringing on more and more and more people through Goldman Sachss. The Goldman Sachs stock is through the roof. Donald trump owns millions of dollars in Goldman Sachs stock. Trump also owns stock in the Company Building the Dakota Access pipeline. Yesterday nounsed he supports completing that pipeline, despite the protests from the Indian Tribes that live in its path. And their many supporters. Trumps Transition Team sent out a briefing note saying, despite media reports about trumps investment in the pipeline company, his support for the pipeline has nothing to do with his personal investments. It looks like the president has a personal interest in it. Were going ahead with it, everybody says thats because of the stock he holds, we say that doesnt mat i. Thats apparently how theyre planning on dealing with these kinds of conflicts. Weve been asking lots of smart people over the last couple days, couple weeks, what the cure for this. Whats the remedy for a president who doesnt have any intention of making the barest gesture toward trying to not appear corrupt. The check weve had on conflict of interest for president of the United States. The president does not want to appear to be acting for his n material gain if the president doesnt care if you can tell that hes acting for his own material gain, what else can we do . So far, nobody else has been able to tell us that there is a cure for this. At least maybe not within government. There is a kind of blunt force legal tactic folks are discussing right now. Private companies, trumps business competitors could bring legal action against him and or his company charging essentially that him being president and having that benefit his companies, that makes it an unfair fight for them in business terms. I mean, say youre a company bidding for some new hotel in some foreign country. The company youre betting against is run by the president of the United States. Is that really a fair bidding process . Is that country going to weigh those bids evenly and give you a fair shot . Would you consider suing to get the president of the United States out of that bidding process, so you can compete fairly as a business in the marketplace . Could lawsuits like that force donald trump to divest him of his business assets . Could lawsuits like that happen, what impact would they have on this kind of a presidency. Joining us now is the one person i feel like i can comfortably ask this question, knowing ill get an answer. Lawrence tribe, legendary law scholar at harvard. Its great to have you with us, thanks for being here. Its great to be here. Did i set that up right in terms of the hypothetical. A competitor of the Trump Organization wants to bid on some lease somewhere. They say its not a fair fight. Do they have a cause of action there . I think they do, and in fact. This links perfectly with your conversation with senator murphy at the beginning of the show about taiwan. Lets say its in taiwan, this infamous phone call between trump and the president of taiwan. It occurred in the wake of trump explorations of building a bunch of Luxury Hotels in taiwan. Hes got projects there. That may not be a coincidence. And there are other people bidding on the same projects, and under settled doctrine, when you are unfairly outbid, youve got a cause of action. For example, in 1990, a unanimous United StatesSupreme Court held that a wholesaler could sue under the Commerce Clause against a state agency that created unfair benefits for instate competitors. And three years later, in at opinion by justice thomas, the court said that in the affirmative action Area Companies and individuals who think theyre being unfairly treated because they dont fit the minority thats getting a benefit can sue. So its a principle established in 1990 by a Unanimous Court led by Justice Brennan by a 72 court in 1993 by someone at the opposite end of the ideological end of the spectrum, justice thomas. So its a wellestablished principle you can sue. Do you see this as i know that you think about these things strategically in addition to legally. Do you see this as the most direct legal remedy for the kinds of conflicts of interest that weve aed, even that you just described tonight in terms of hotels in taipei . Is this is this the best way at it in terms of trying to remedy that conflict . Well, i think impeachment is, of course, the most direct. In terms of private remedies, this is about all there is. But we are a litigious society. It would not be surprising to see lots of companies and individuals deciding to go after the trump enterprise, and its a family enterprise. The only way to solve the problem for him would be to divest the whole family of these holdings, not just to say i wont play a role in in managing it day to day, but basically just as throughout history people have greased the palm of the king by giving benefits to the prince, hamilton says one of the big dangers of a republic is that it gives too easy access to foreigners and Foreign Governments for corruption. And the solution to that was an absolute prohibition unless Congress Gives a green light. An absolute prohibition to the president or actually even lower officers accepting benefits of any kind, president s emoluments payments of any kind, licenses, anything that greases the palm from a Foreign Government or foreigncontrolled corporation. We have a system in which private individuals and companies that are hurt can take him to court, and a number of us have offered to defend them proboney as he retaliates as he is want to do against people who displease him or sue him. Of course we have the responsibility of congress through the impeachment clause. The politics at the moment, dont look too beneficial. Lawrence tribe, professor of constitutional law at harvard. Clearly state, and yuouve helpd me understand something that i felt wooly about for a long time. Thank you for helping us walk through it tonight. Thank you, sir. Thanks. Fascinating. If the people who if theres no political remedy here, which the trump folks say there isnt and professor tribe was saying about congress and impeachment theres no remedy because of politics and republican control. If the remedy for these conflicts of interest in this corruption issue is private individuals and business competitors taking him to court, the question may be bravery, right . Well be right back. I love my shop, but my back pain was making it hard to sleep and open up on time. Then i found aleve pm. The only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. Now im back. Aleve pm for a better am. There had been a burst of noise earlier that governor sarah palin. Alaska might be up for a cabinet position. Maybe shes the best person in the country to run the 300,000person department of Veterans Affairs . Maybe . Maybe. But today the former Alaska Governor slammed the carrier air Conditioner Company that the president elect tried y toied t victory lap on yesterday calling it cronyism. Republicans support this, instead we support competition on a level playing field, remember, because we know special interest crony capitalism is one big fail. Written in palinese. But what i think that means is theyre not picking me for a cabinet position. Watch this space. Stay with us. Out there. Alzheimers disease the fi is out there. Survive and the Alzheimers Association is going to make it happen by funding scientific breakthroughs, advancing public policy, and providing local support to those living with the disease and their caregivers. 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And that unlimited 2 cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business. Which adds fuel to my bottom line. Whats in your wallet . Thanks for being with us. Its been a bit of a wild night in the news. I reported earlier that the president elect still holds as stock still holds stock in Energy Transfer partners, the company thats building that very controversial pipeline in north dakota thats attracted so much protest. I should tell you that when the trump transition today announced that trump favors the completion of that pipeline, they also said he sold off his Energy Transfer partners stock. Maybe he has. Ill tell you when i see his tax returns. Even if he has, hes known to have held stock in phillips 66 and a number of companies that hold a share of those pipeline rights. There is still a conflict of interest between the president elect and the pipeline as long as he holds his assets and doesnt divest himself from his Business Holdings and his stocks. Msnbc live is next. Good morning, everyone, im dara brown at msnbc world headquarters. 7 00 out east. New reaction this morning to president elect trumps phone call with the leader of taiwan. The big question, will it damage relations with china . Bitter end, the campaign squabbling over who won and why. Well bring you the latest. Behind the numbers. Is the carrier deal all that its cracked up to be . Ill ask a former economist who advised president obama. And sarah palin reportedly looking to join the trump administration, but now shes openly criticizing one of the president elects first big moves